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Crafting...broken...kind of, in a bad good way.Follow

#1 Sep 05 2013 at 6:15 PM Rating: Excellent
Ok so this takes, well, 2 people, and requires you having a level 50 disciple of war/magic for it to work.

Levequests break crafting. I'll explain:

In order to get Leves you have to initially do a combat oriented leve, to be able to access the other leves, hence the requirement of a level 50 DoW/M (well maybe not 50 but you'll get the point...).

Each Leve, which range from level 1~45 ask for you to craft different items. However, it doesn't register completion by the act of crafting, rather it counts as long as you have the requested item in your inventory (and not bound iirc). Because of this you can have a 2nd person craft all of your levequest items. As a level 50 crafter can 100% HQ most items all the way to at least 30~ish level recipes, you might realize where this is going.

@nd person HQ's all your levequest items, trades them to you, and you turn them in. Since they are HQ, guess what you gex 3x the normal xp. For example, a level 15 levequest will net you 18k a piece, 10 hq cotton halfgloves and bam 180k xp in about 2 minutes, the time it takes to accept and turn in the quest 10 times.

The only thing that limits this no-effort crafting powerleveling method is the number of Leve allowances you have available.

As this is, in my personal opinion, a borderline exploit, I can't guaentee SE won't end up taking action against this. I do believe that they will most likely address it in some way, such as, requiring the action of crafting the item to trigger quest completion, however at that point it may still only need the motion of synthing an NQ item and swapping it with an HQ in your inventory. So...I don't know.

Comments? Opinions?
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#2 Sep 05 2013 at 6:19 PM Rating: Good
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The HQ bonus is just too much, if you compare Gathering leve you only get up to 25% bonus for achieving super awesome mad skillz collecting...

Even Grand Company Supply and Provisioning HQ does not give that much bonus.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 8:19pm by Khornette
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#3 Sep 05 2013 at 6:21 PM Rating: Excellent
And here is the kicker. Levequest rewards don't fall off. You may not get xp for synthing the item but you can do level 30 levequests all the way to 50 because all you need is HQ items to get huge xp rewards. So if you have 100 allowances you can theoretically go from 1-50 in one day, as long as you have mats ready before hand.
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#4 Sep 05 2013 at 6:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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The HQ bonus is fine, but levequests need to require that you actually craft the requested item.

It's simple enough, just change the objective to trigger when the item is crafted.
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#5 Sep 05 2013 at 6:24 PM Rating: Default
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......so they level quickly and this matters because? I'm pushing towards higher cap because the costs on the MW for the relic weapons are a little ridiculous right now.

Personally, I'm abusing the **** out of this because I'm way behind most 1.0 players (and I'm on a legacy server due to friends). I'm currently looking for triple-turnin leves around level 25 for blacksmithing (send me a PM or post here if you have a list somewhere if them I'd appreciate the feedback.

Secondly, this was kinda tested extensively in all beta phases and commented on (there were more than enough threads that's for sure). Considering how polished the game is (servers aside) and how much they actually *boosted* crafting EXP from phase 3 to phase 4/early access I seriously think they're fine with it.
#6 Sep 05 2013 at 6:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
As this is, in my personal opinion, a borderline exploit,
It's most certainly an exploit, but it being game mechanics I doubt Square would take action against people using it. They didn't take action against anyone that fished Rusty Caps, after all. Though, I guess they could also change their minds from then and do so now, but I can only realistically comment on precedent and not hypothetical predictions. I imagine they'd probably add a check to make sure you're the one doing the crafting to get credit for it. If anything, a particularly cunning and enterprising individual could make quite the profit selling items or their services directly while they can.
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#7 Sep 05 2013 at 6:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Well considering that someone can go 1-50 without having a single 'completion' logged in their crafting log, would be a dead giveaway...
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#8 Sep 05 2013 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
The HQ bonus is fine, but levequests need to require that you actually craft the requested item.

It's simple enough, just change the objective to trigger when the item is crafted.


I'd be cool with this... would streamline things so I don't have to teleport back and forth for turn ins.Smiley: nod
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#9 Sep 05 2013 at 6:28 PM Rating: Excellent
not to mention 1-50 by only having a weathered needle.... and no gear.
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#10 Sep 05 2013 at 6:29 PM Rating: Good
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Viertel wrote:
......so they level quickly and this matters because? I'm pushing towards higher cap because the costs on the MW for the relic weapons are a little ridiculous right now.

Personally, I'm abusing the **** out of this because I'm way behind most 1.0 players (and I'm on a legacy server due to friends). I'm currently looking for triple-turnin leves around level 25 for blacksmithing (send me a PM or post here if you have a list somewhere if them I'd appreciate the feedback.

Secondly, this was kinda tested extensively in all beta phases and commented on (there were more than enough threads that's for sure). Considering how polished the game is (servers aside) and how much they actually *boosted* crafting EXP from phase 3 to phase 4/early access I seriously think they're fine with it.


I don't mind about the leve, just the HQ bonus it's triple the reward. Gathering and Combat leve barely give 25% bonus as maximum you can get. Grand Company turn in I think only double the reward for HQ. Besides, GC is only once a day and you don't get to choose which one to hand in.

Couple with the fact that anything not star rated recipe is easily HQ by lvl 50 crafters, you could see people abuse that.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 8:30pm by Khornette
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#11 Sep 05 2013 at 6:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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On the one hand, I get it. Yeah, you could technically plvl pretty hard that way.

But you still need to procure the ingredients, so there's a gate.
There is a cap of 6 leves per day once you burn through your reserve, so there's another gate.
And the more people that do this, the more demand there will be for mats, which helps to make a robust economy.

Sure, you can plvl a craft (emphasis on a, because this will really only allow for huge gains in one craft at a time after pooling leves), but that carries with it it's own problems. For instance, you become a MUCH better crafter by doing stuff on your own, not to mention gaining the extra XP from first-time crafting and any HQ progress you make.

In short, yeah, it sorta seems like an exploit, but it carries certain drawbacks and also has a limitation based on the leves you have available.
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#12 Sep 05 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Quor wrote:
On the one hand, I get it. Yeah, you could technically plvl pretty hard that way.

But you still need to procure the ingredients, so there's a gate.
There is a cap of 6 leves per day once you burn through your reserve, so there's another gate.
And the more people that do this, the more demand there will be for mats, which helps to make a robust economy.

Sure, you can plvl a craft (emphasis on a, because this will really only allow for huge gains in one craft at a time after pooling leves), but that carries with it it's own problems. For instance, you become a MUCH better crafter by doing stuff on your own, not to mention gaining the extra XP from first-time crafting and any HQ progress you make.

In short, yeah, it sorta seems like an exploit, but it carries certain drawbacks and also has a limitation based on the leves you have available.


I estimate it will take about 100 leves, which IS your reserve. the mats are easily farmed (very quickly mind you with new gathering system). and once you get to level 20+ leves your getting 20K+ xp per item. PER ITEM. at level 49 it would take approximately 25 level 20 hq levequest turn ins to get 50. thats it.
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#13 Sep 05 2013 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
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Not seeing it as an issue, really, and here's the big part: Why would someone willfully support the upbringing of competition?

Supplies and leves are finite. ****, it's not like they're really cranking out endgame uber-items with but a sneeze, either. Non-legacy servers may have a few hardcore capped crafters at the moment, but on the other side of the coin, when I consider you've got a few dozen people at a specific range doing every item in the item log, are all of those items actually in demand at the market? My money is on no. Thus, prices crash, your stuff doesn't sell, and some things are simply more profitable to vendor at this point. It's basically the opposite end of non-participation, if you want to equate utilizing leves as such.

Right now I have a 26 GSM and 25 WVR on top of 26 BTN and 25 MIN. Were someone to offer me a means to PL, I might be tempted. I've certainly spent a fair deal of time manually grinding out repeat synths because SE neutered quick synth too severely. A lot of things in the log I simply don't care about HQing, but occasionally I will try, particularly things like accessories that'll help me craft better. Even now, I won't profess to be a master of the system simply because I don't have all the possible abilities at my disposal, but I'd this point I say I'd have the gist of it while the economy is still experiencing flooding of basic goods.
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#14 Sep 05 2013 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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The economy is mostly unaffected, except for Materia. Crafter Materia has become the most expensive at all grades.
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#15 Sep 05 2013 at 10:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
I estimate it will take about 100 leves, which IS your reserve. the mats are easily farmed (very quickly mind you with new gathering system). and once you get to level 20+ leves your getting 20K+ xp per item. PER ITEM. at level 49 it would take approximately 25 level 20 hq levequest turn ins to get 50. thats it.


True, but as noted, you need someone with mastery of that craft (and the gear to support it) already established. So in essence, you need what amounts to a master of the craft to help raise someone else to master a craft. And they would need to wait about 19 days without doing a single leve in order to do master said craft.

Given that you can level multiple DoW/DoM jobs to 50 in the course of 19 days, I don't see this an issue. Moreso, you could level an entire craft to 50 in far less than 19 days just by actually crafting.

So yes, it is possible for one person to plvl someone else through a craft, but it requires some specific circumstances, a decently leveled DoL class/or a lot of startup cash, and more than half a months worth of saved leves. In other words, it's quite the undertaking in and of itself.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 9:47pm by Quor
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#16 Sep 05 2013 at 11:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Quor wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
I estimate it will take about 100 leves, which IS your reserve. the mats are easily farmed (very quickly mind you with new gathering system). and once you get to level 20+ leves your getting 20K+ xp per item. PER ITEM. at level 49 it would take approximately 25 level 20 hq levequest turn ins to get 50. thats it.


True, but as noted, you need someone with mastery of that craft (and the gear to support it) already established. So in essence, you need what amounts to a master of the craft to help raise someone else to master a craft. And they would need to wait about 19 days without doing a single leve in order to do master said craft.

Given that you can level multiple DoW/DoM jobs to 50 in the course of 19 days, I don't see this an issue. Moreso, you could level an entire craft to 50 in far less than 19 days just by actually crafting.

So yes, it is possible for one person to plvl someone else through a craft, but it requires some specific circumstances, a decently leveled DoL class/or a lot of startup cash, and more than half a months worth of saved leves. In other words, it's quite the undertaking in and of itself.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 9:47pm by Quor


Yes but one other thing you are missing here is, if a player can do it, so can RMT. And this is a legacy server, there are so many established players with every one of those 'requirements'. Not only that it is only needed until you hit about 40, after that you can do it yourself. On top of that I think we all know how much people love jumping on the plvl bandwagon.
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#17 Sep 06 2013 at 12:06 AM Rating: Default
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I still fail to see the issue. It sounds more and more like you're upset that other people can easily catch up to someone that's had crafts leveled from 1.0.

To be blunt, most people don't give a **** about crafting. I know that while the majority of my free company is leveling the craft required for their relic (since some prices are so expensive), they don't ever plan to really touch crafting again until needed. This is just like every other MMO in existence.

There exists a solid core of crafters that enjoy it, and the majority of the populace don't and would rather purchase the goods. There also exists a portion that simply thrives on maxing out the crafts just to see a line of 50 on that screen, and that's the only reason they do so.

You're seriously fretting over absolutely nothing. Like was mentioned before you're still gated and you can't bumrush all crafts in one day with this method (like you could if you uses sanctioned PLs in 1.0). Considering the big man himself's stated several times he wants people to get to the cap quickly to enjoy the game (which also makes crafting infinitely more enjoyable when you have more abilities) there's no doubt this wasn't intended.

That prompt shows up to specifically let you know you're going to get that bonus. It's been in for a few beta phases; it was put in deliberately. If someone wants to blow all their money to do this? Great, more power to them. If they have a friend willing to help out and craft the HQs for them? Great, more power to the both of them.

EDIT: Your point? RMT dealt in crafting in FFXI and they could power someone. They dealt in raw mats. They dealt in account hacking and stealing. They dealt in finding easily obtainable items they could sell to NPCs (which doesn't really exist here).

1.0 was built around trying to stamp out RMT at the players' expense........AND IT STILL DID NOT WORK. So RMT will level a few crafts a lot faster than their already fast methods. You can't stop them and trying to state it's bad specifically because of RMT is foolish naive.

If they want to get that craft up they're going to get that craft up *fast* and there's nothing you can do to stop it. You really think removing HQ rewards or lowering them is really going to stop them if they want to corner the market?

You're not thinking.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:11am by Viertel
#18 Sep 06 2013 at 3:29 AM Rating: Good
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While I don't think the "exploit" is terribly bad I do think that they could adjust the HQ bonus. It is quite obviously too high. If it was just 100% bonus this might not be so OBVIOUSLY the way to level fast.

I have leveled my Weaver to 25 twice (once in p3) and both were pretty fast, but still a grind. Today for the first time I took my 28 Weaver to Quarrymill. I was attracted by the posts saying it was a good way to get some diremite webs and I was being troll farmed by a lvl 50 SMN jerk. I left level 30 and a half after running through the the two Leve's there TWICE EACH.

I personally feel a reduction in this bonus is needed. The extra XP actually deters me from using this method because I don't want to reach cap asap like a lot of people do. I want to enjoy the game.
#19 Sep 06 2013 at 3:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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I haven't been able to unlock trade/fieldcraft leve's at all. I've done battlecraft and GC leve's already. What am i missing?
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#20 Sep 06 2013 at 5:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Teneleven wrote:
I haven't been able to unlock trade/fieldcraft leve's at all. I've done battlecraft and GC leve's already. What am i missing?


Not all locations have Tradeskill/Fieldcraft leves.

If you're looking for the 30s, try Costa del Sol.
#21 Sep 06 2013 at 6:07 AM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
The economy is mostly unaffected, except for Materia. Crafter Materia has become the most expensive at all grades.


Crafter and harvesting materia are the most expensive. and I've noticed it takes longer for these pieces of gear to bind than my combat gear.
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#22 Sep 06 2013 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, craft gear takes a **** of a long time to bind after a point. Makes me think the best way is to just buy up cheap components to quick synth spam when you don't plan on being super attentive.

Anyway, I'm wondering about this leve thing. Worked on my GSM some tonight and at 30 I got a leve to turn in 3 malachite bracers to the guy just outside Ul'dah's adventurer guild. The leve did the triple turn-in thing and HQ payout tallied to a little over 159k if I'm remembering right. Am I to believe there are more profitable options at the outpost towns or might I have just been lucky on some kind of leve rotation that didn't require distanced travel?
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#23 Sep 06 2013 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Khornette wrote:
The HQ bonus is just too much, if you compare Gathering leve you only get up to 25% bonus for achieving super awesome mad skillz collecting...

Even Grand Company Supply and Provisioning HQ does not give that much bonus.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 8:19pm by Khornette


And time / difficulty rewards for battlecraft leves is equivalent to a drop in the bucket.
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#24 Sep 06 2013 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
Yeah, craft gear takes a **** of a long time to bind after a point. Makes me think the best way is to just buy up cheap components to quick synth spam when you don't plan on being super attentive.

Anyway, I'm wondering about this leve thing. Worked on my GSM some tonight and at 30 I got a leve to turn in 3 malachite bracers to the guy just outside Ul'dah's adventurer guild. The leve did the triple turn-in thing and HQ payout tallied to a little over 159k if I'm remembering right. Am I to believe there are more profitable options at the outpost towns or might I have just been lucky on some kind of leve rotation that didn't require distanced travel?


I am wondering that about the outposts as well
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#25 Sep 06 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Decent
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If it takes so long to level the normal way, why not just full up with spiritbind increase items (I know of 3 offhand), slap on some crafting gear, and go join a FATE train for a bit and see if that's faster. I know with 3 spiritbind increase items you're looking at a hefty reduction (each is 10% off of the remaining after the first calculation) and as of early access you could still grow crafting gear with normal killing EXP.
#26 Sep 06 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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This should probably get nerfed...

I just spent about 20k to go from 10 - 24 Weaver without picking up a needle.
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#27 Sep 06 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Im just blowin away with why would you wanna power house to level 50 craft, i feel you would miss out on useing alot of cool gear, i guess i just dont understand the whole "game begins at endgame."
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#28 Sep 06 2013 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
@nd person HQ's all your levequest items, trades them to you, and you turn them in. Since they are HQ, guess what you gex 3x the normal xp. For example, a level 15 levequest will net you 18k a piece, 10 hq cotton halfgloves and bam 180k xp in about 2 minutes, the time it takes to accept and turn in the quest 10 times.


This doesn't sound so much like an exploit to me as it does one higher-level person power leveling one lower-level person. Power leveling has generally been allowed/left alone in FF MMOs.

Louiscool wrote:
This should probably get nerfed...

I just spent about 20k to go from 10 - 24 Weaver without picking up a needle.


Eh, you could've invested a bit more time and done it a lot more cheaply though. Levels 10-24 really aren't that tough crafting. I did 21-25 GSM on rocks that miners sell relatively cheaply getting ~2500 exp per synth. The rocks usually ran 10G each, and the synth requires a single rock. If you consider that your occasional HQ will offset your occasional explosion, you're looking at around 250,000 exp for around 1k gil.
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#29 Sep 06 2013 at 2:06 PM Rating: Default
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Everything I craft comes out HQ anyway.
#30 Sep 06 2013 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
Anyway, I'm wondering about this leve thing. Worked on my GSM some tonight and at 30 I got a leve to turn in 3 malachite bracers to the guy just outside Ul'dah's adventurer guild. The leve did the triple turn-in thing and HQ payout tallied to a little over 159k if I'm remembering right. Am I to believe there are more profitable options at the outpost towns or might I have just been lucky on some kind of leve rotation that didn't require distanced travel?

AFAIK, only the town leves, and those that ask for 3 items, will actually ask for 3 more then 3 more (9 total). The leves in distant camps will only accept one item.

The advantage of the leves out of town is greater base XP, and +200% XP if you turn in a single HQ, while the 9 item one will give +67% / +133% / + 200% if you turn-in 1, 2 or 3 HQ in a batch.

You get more XP per leve allowance out of the town one, but you get way more XP per item synthed by the other ones.
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