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Cutscenes in Story DungeonsFollow

#1 Sep 06 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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I would like to know how many others have had conflict in their parties relating to this very topic.

Praetorium or Castrum Meridianum each have 10-20 cutscenes, which some folks insist on watching to their completion when they can see them later in their inn. Nothing is worse than skipping the cutscene to save time on the timer and coming out of the cutscene to find yourself locked in instabattle with something large and only 3 of the 8 people in your party present. It just drops you in the battle.

I personally wait hours as a dd to enter duty finder, and I don't want conflict. I hate waiting that long only to have two or three in the 8 man group insist on watching every cutscene like reading a pleasure novel, followed by two or three who vehemantly oppose such action and repeatedly post in all caps. Flaming ensues, people leave, and I have to 2 hour queue the duty finder again.

I seriously believe that it is a design flaw in the coding to have the timer run while anyone is in a cutscene, and the game should never drop you into a battle directly out of a cutscene without an opportunity to regroup and strategize. Changes in this manner by the programmers could eliminate a lot of pain and suffering.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 12:11pm by Valkayree

Edit - Dammit I am not an elitist who wants to do speed runs. I want to beat the quest once and never run it again. It is only applying to the last two story dungeons, not every dungeon. You dont even get any good loot from Praetorium or Castrum Meridianum, why would I want to run them twice? I wanted to see if everyone felt that a change was needed to the timer system during cutscenes. Maybe I should have not stated my personal stance...

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:35pm by Valkayree

Oh and Spoiler Text I guess...

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:51pm by Valkayree
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#2 Sep 06 2013 at 11:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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People shouldn't get upset when someone is running a dungeon for the first time and watches the scenes as they unfold. If you want to skip them and break up the narrative, that is good for you. But some people like to enjoy the storieS of the world.

The game has been out for two weeks. People that rush content shouldn't complain when someone else doesn't.
#3 Sep 06 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Default
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DmitryOnIfrit wrote:
People that rush content shouldn't complain when someone else doesn't.
If it's like the OP says and you can just watch the cutscenes at an inn at your leisure, then it's more in everyone's best interest just to skip them while trying to accomplish an objective of some sort.
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#4 Sep 06 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Valkayree wrote:
I personally wait hours as a dd to enter duty finder, and I don't want conflict. I hate waiting that long only to have two or three in the 8 man group insist on watching every cutscene like reading a pleasure novel, followed by two or three who vehemantly oppose such action and repeatedly post in all caps. Flaming ensues, people leave, and I have to 2 hour queue the duty finder again. Truly and utterly annoying.

Personally I skip cutscenes for the better respect of the folks around me. I will watch the scenes later in my own time. But I will not become upset unless we have 20 minutes on the clock, we have already invested an hour and 40 minutes, and we have three forms of Ultima remaining.

I seriously believe that it is a design flaw in the coding to have the timer run while anyone is in a cutscene, and the game should never drop you into a battle directly out of a cutscene without an opportunity to regroup and strategize. Changes in this manner by the programmers could eliminate a lot of pain and suffering.

It sounds like they should extend the amount of time needed to clear the dungeon, or tweak the difficulty of the dungeon so that you can comfortably clear it without having to skip CSs. And there should be a delay between a CS and engaging a mob since not everyone is guaranteed to be done with a CS at the same time.

If you want to skip the CSs and watch them later, that's your call. But it would be unreasonable to expect everyone else to do the same unless the group agrees to that practice at the start of the run. Watching the CSs later in the inn doesn't have the same impact as experiencing the story while doing the content. Players should be allowed to experience the story properly, the way it was designed to be experienced.

And this speaks to a community / player issue. Even if SE made all of the changes you describe, there will still be players that want to clear the dungeon as fast as possible so that they can move on to other things. Unfortunately, that's the risk you take when joining a random group of people. The best way to experience a dungeon the way that you want to experience (either taking your time and watching all of the CSs, or skipping them all to maximize your chance at clearing) is to find like minded players on your server and group up with them for the dungeon.
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#5 Sep 06 2013 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh hey I just killed Sephiroth and for some reason there's all this green stuff and a meteor... and why isn't Aerith in my party anymore?
Let me go back an hour later and watch this spoiled narrative.
#6 Sep 06 2013 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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You're one of those people, huh?

No respect for others, just want to speed run, insult others who watch the CS. Yeah, I've had "you're kind" in my party before. Telling me how we barely have enough time to finish without me watching the cutscenes and then we finish with 40 minutes remaining WITH me watching them.

It's the conclusion of the storyline and people want to know WHY they are fighting something through the progress of the story, not find out later at the inn. If you cant respect that, then maybe you shouldn't be speed running the story mission, and gear up better and move on to Wanderer's or Amdapor, which have better drops and tomes/hr rates.

I had absolutely no issue completing both dungeons while watching the cutscenes, and even a few wipes on bosses. Respect others, don't be so greedy.
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#7 Sep 06 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
No respect for others, just want to speed run, insult others who watch the CS.

[...]

Respect others, don't be so greedy.
What about the people with limited playtime that just want to complete the content? Do they not deserve respect? How about the damage dealers that have been sitting around for hours just to do that content? It behooves them to get in, finish, and get back into queue. Do they not deserve respect? And how about the people that have done the content itself a dozen times already? Why should any these people suffer because someone is being greedy and wants to slow everyone else down?

Should discuss it before starting the run.
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#8 Sep 06 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you're queueing up on Duty Finder with the intention of doing a speed run, it seems pretty silly to be upset when you find out that other members in your random group did not show up for a speed run.
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#9 Sep 06 2013 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
No respect for others, just want to speed run, insult others who watch the CS.

[...]

Respect others, don't be so greedy.
What about the people with limited playtime that just want to complete the content? Do they not deserve respect? How about the damage dealers that have been sitting around for hours just to do that content? It behooves them to get in, finish, and get back into queue. Do they not deserve respect? And how about the people that have done the content itself a dozen times already? Why should any these people suffer because someone is being greedy and wants to slow everyone else down?

Should discuss it before starting the run.


Well this is my point. The content is story-related. If you want to run it to farm, you should expect that people will be doing it for the first time and want to experience it, right? There are more efficient ways to earn Tomes, and the Tome reward is mainly to encourage people to help out players doing it for the first time, as the dungeon has no other drops.

Even skipping the cutscenes, it's less tomes/hr than wanderers, and Amdapor has 80 philosophy and 40 mythic. CLEARLY, Ampdapor is the best place to go. If you want to speed run the story, don't solo-queue in the duty finder. Shout for a party or something.

It really ruined what was a great conclusion to the story for me, having 2 people ***** out the other 6 for watching the conclusion to the 30-hour campaign.
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#10 Sep 06 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Valkayree wrote:
Stuff with spoilers: "Ultima" fight


Yeah.... uh thanks for the lack of a spoiler warning... I hate when spoilers are spoiled by warnings.

On topic:

Im clearly not on the Castrums yet, and wasn't aware there were that many CSs in them. I initial stance was to just deal with the people watching the CSs they paid for, but in light of the sheer number, the variable rate at which people read, and the lengthy dungeon run and limited timer, I think I've just changed camps.

Though if it's clear at the beginning of the run that people will or will not be watching CSs, perhaps time won't be wasted over argueing and rage quitting.


Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:01pm by diiablo
#11 Sep 06 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Final Fantasy has always been about the story. You want to just take that away?
#12 Sep 06 2013 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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diiablo wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
Stuff with spoilers: "Ultima" fight


Yeah.... uh thanks for the lack of a spoiler warning... I hate when spoilers are spoiled by warnings.

On topic:

Im clearly not on the Castrums yet, and wasn't aware there were that many CSs in them. I initial stance was to just deal with the people watching the CSs they paid for, but in light of the sheer number, the variable rate at which people read, and the lengthy dungeon run and limited timer, I think I've just changed camps.

Though if it's clear at the beginning of the run that people will or will not be watching CSs, perhaps time won't be wasted over argueing and rage quitting.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:56pm by diiablo

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:00pm by diiablo


Yeah OP let out a few major spoilers. I did the final fight last night. Read ALL CS as well as everyone else who was there for the first time. Finished the fight and had plenty of time on the clock. There is no need to rush this one at all. You get what 120 minutes? Yeah, that plenty of time for everyone. Anyone starting should see that timer and go O I'mma be here a gooooooood while.

Edit: put in spoiler alert

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:11pm by nonameoflevi
#13 Sep 06 2013 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
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nonameoflevi wrote:
Yeah OP let out a few major spoilers. I did the final fight last night. Read ALL CS as well as everyone else who was there for the first time. Finished the fight and had plenty of time on the clock. There is no need to rush this one at all. You get what 120 minutes? Yeah, that plenty of time for everyone. Anyone starting should see that timer and go O I'mma be here a gooooooood while.


OK, if I know there's plenty of time to finish, then I firmly agree with watching CSs for those who want to.

BTW, I edited my post to remove the spoiler in my rant on spoilers, would be great if you could update my quote to not perpetuate the spoiling?
#14 Sep 06 2013 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
I seriously believe that it is a design flaw in the coding to have the timer run while anyone is in a cutscene, and the game should never drop you into a battle directly out of a cutscene without an opportunity to regroup and strategize. Changes in this manner by the programmers could eliminate a lot of pain and suffering.


I thought your post was well worded. Not a rant but instead descriptive about the problem. Can't deny it is an issue. Dropping CS skippers straight into battle HAS to be fixed.

I feel guilty watching the cutscenes knowing that the other players do not want to. Some games have a kind of voting system where if majority wants to skip then it force skips. I'm ok with that.

Instead of having to go to the Inn, I would suggest that players have the option to watch the entire dungeon worth of cut scenes right when they exit (after loot is determined).

Watch Skipped Cut Scenes?
- No, exit.
- Yes.

I really want to watch them! As the events unfold preferably, but after the other players are gone would be an acceptable compromise.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:07pm by Gnu
#15 Sep 06 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
I seriously believe that it is a design flaw in the coding to have the timer run while anyone is in a cutscene, and the game should never drop you into a battle directly out of a cutscene without an opportunity to regroup and strategize. Changes in this manner by the programmers could eliminate a lot of pain and suffering.


I thought your post was well worded. Not a rant but instead descriptive about the problem. Can't deny it is an issue. Dropping CS skippers straight into battle HAS to be fixed.

I feel guilty watching the cutscenes knowing that the other players do not want to. Some games have a kind of voting system where if majority wants to skip then it force skips. I'm ok with that.

Instead of having to go to the Inn, I would suggest that players have the option to watch the entire dungeon worth of cut scenes right when they exit (after loot is determined).

Watch Skipped Cut Scenes?
- No, exit.
- Yes.

I really want to watch them! As the events unfold preferably, but after the other players are gone would be an acceptable compromise.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:07pm by Gnu


These are really meant to be watched as the Fights unfold. I would really hate for someone to miss out on them.
#16 Sep 06 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
If you want to run it to farm, you should expect that people will be doing it for the first time and want to experience it, right?
Likewise, if it's your first time you should expect that people will be doing it to farm or have legitimate reasons to want to just finish. And that expectation should grow as the game continues. That's not being disrespectful on their parts, nor greedy, like you implied. The only solution is to discuss it before the run starts. I mean, if this were XI I'd say that's their problem because it took an act of God just to rewatch cutscenes and I'm going to watch it right f'in now, like it or not, but here they sound like the scenes easily accessible. You should not just dismiss the group that wants to speed through. That is disrespectful and greedy.

Like I said though, the only correct method is to discuss it before hand instead of just expecting the other group to do as you say.
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#17 Sep 06 2013 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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wow such backlash over a few min wait. Just let people do what they want they payed for the game they should enjoy the story. If you dont wanna wait than make your own pt. If somone afks for 10 min for no reason than thats a issue but a simple cutsceen.. you guys are over reacting . If you dont finish an instance with 20-40 min left than there is a bigger issue than a simple cutsceen watcher.
#18 Sep 06 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I always watch the CS during my first run through of a dungeon. Don't like it? I'll drop the dungeon and i"m sure my SCH will find another PUG before the time you finish typing your all caps response to tell me to hurry up.

I fully understand that if i'm in a PUG that there are people that are going through the first, as a matter of fact, it tells you in the very begining: "hey, jackass, there are players here on their first time through, chill the @#%^ out and wait". Of course, I'm paraphrasing but still.

If your in that big of a hurry, don't do PUGs. Go find some friends that are just as impatient as you are and run dungeons to your hearts content.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:21pm by RyanSquires
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#19 Sep 06 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Default
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Valkayree wrote:
I would like to know how many others have had conflict in their parties relating to this very topic.

Praetorium or Castrum Meridianum each have 10-20 cutscenes, which some folks insist on watching to their completion when they can see them later in their inn. Nothing is worse than skipping the cutscene to save time on the timer and coming out of the cutscene to find yourself locked in instabattle with something large and only 3 of the 8 people in your party present. It just drops you in the battle. And the cutscenes are so long and so frequent that you barely have time to finish the quest. I beat Praetorium last night with 12 minutes left, and only after two cs watching dps were flamed by the tank, then weren't raised by the healers, then proceeded to quit, but fortunately were replaced by two good dd during the ultima battle and we managed to come out on top. Before that, my entire party broke up because the tank was watching and both healers left.

I personally wait hours as a dd to enter duty finder, and I don't want conflict. I hate waiting that long only to have two or three in the 8 man group insist on watching every cutscene like reading a pleasure novel, followed by two or three who vehemantly oppose such action and repeatedly post in all caps. Flaming ensues, people leave, and I have to 2 hour queue the duty finder again. Truly and utterly annoying.

Personally I skip cutscenes for the better respect of the folks around me. I will watch the scenes later in my own time. But I will not become upset unless we have 20 minutes on the clock, we have already invested an hour and 40 minutes, and we have three forms of Ultima remaining.

I seriously believe that it is a design flaw in the coding to have the timer run while anyone is in a cutscene, and the game should never drop you into a battle directly out of a cutscene without an opportunity to regroup and strategize. Changes in this manner by the programmers could eliminate a lot of pain and suffering.


Edited, Sep 6th 2013 12:11pm by Valkayree

Wow you are an elitist *******. I dont care if it takes time, Im watching the cs the first time I encounter it, dont like it? Tough. You can flame or harass me all you want Ill just report you for griefing.
#20 Sep 06 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:

If you want to skip the CSs and watch them later, that's your call. But it would be unreasonable to expect everyone else to do the same unless the group agrees to that practice at the start of the run. Watching the CSs later in the inn doesn't have the same impact as experiencing the story while doing the content. Players should be allowed to experience the story properly, the way it was designed to be experienced.


True, if there was no time limit, it would not matter. But what good is watching a cutscene going to do if it means that you and 7 other unhappy people have to restart the dungeon because you run out of time? That's a wasted two hours for people who might not have two hours to waste. They developers simply dont give enough time to watch the cutscenes in full and beat the missions without taking it right down to the wire. Meaning you can't wipe, al all.

And the story is great, and not all of it is available in the inn. I love the story, I want to watch it too. Ultimately you can't blame the player, it is a design issue. We were not allowed to get this far in beta or early access, so no one really got an opportunity to test the drawbacks that these cutscenes would have while the timer would run.

A patch should be implemented, bottom line.

A. No one should be able to any skip cutscenes in story missions OR the timer should not run while you are in them
B. It should never drop you into a battle directly out of a cutscene

These seem like simple fixes to a problem that the player base will not solve. Personally, when I am at the store, crossing the street, and see a car wanting to drive by, I hurry my **** up and stop admiring the scenery because I live by the golden rule: "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you". Sadly, I still find myself driving and find that person who wants to take 35 mintues and baby steps to walk across the street when they are perfectly capable of walking faster. Or that lady who parks her basket in front of your peanut butter and acts like you arent there. In real life we are polite and don't say anythign but "excuse me" but online, people tend to talk in all caps due to a lack of repercussion.

I am just the topic neutral here. I do have a stance, but I am equally addressing all sides of the debate. I dont care if you want to watch the story, but read fast and press the X button faster, please, for the sake of the others as well...

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:37pm by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:37pm by Valkayree
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#21 Sep 06 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
If you want to run it to farm, you should expect that people will be doing it for the first time and want to experience it, right?
Likewise, if it's your first time you should expect that people will be doing it to farm or have legitimate reasons to want to just finish. And that expectation should grow as the game continues. That's not being disrespectful on their parts, nor greedy, like you implied. The only solution is to discuss it before the run starts. I mean, if this were XI I'd say that's their problem because it took an act of God just to rewatch cutscenes and I'm going to watch it right f'in now, like it or not, but here they sound like the scenes easily accessible. You should not just dismiss the group that wants to speed through. That is disrespectful and greedy.

Like I said though, the only correct method is to discuss it before hand instead of just expecting the other group to do as you say.


Yeah, discussing it beforehand is perfectly acceptable. What's not perfectly acceptable is then stomping your feet like a little baby and spending the entire run using /p as your personal soapbox to insult the members who are watching it, after you've all agreed to watch them.

Maybe I'm a bit over-angry on this subject, but the duty finder is full situations like the one I had.

We take care to avoid spoiling the story for others, right? How is skipping the CS to see the final boss any different? It's a spoiler. I only skipped one CS at the end because I was tired of the remarks, and I was completely confused as to what happened to the Black Wolf and why was I now fighting "the Ascien guy" (not even gonna mention his name in the spoiler tag).

My experience ended with one party member saying they hoped I contracted the AIDs virus and another hoping I drowned in a river. So no, I didn't have a good time.
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#22 Sep 06 2013 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:


Wow you are an elitist @#%^. I dont care if it takes time, Im watching the cs the first time I encounter it, dont like it? Tough. You can flame or harass me all you want Ill just report you for griefing.


Strong difference between an elitist on his 35th run who is **** about speed and me, who on his first try just wants to finish the **** two hour quest one time without running out of time and having to repeat duty finder for two hours. My stance is that I really don't need any more RL aggro from my family. So sit down son, when you have kids I'm sure you will understand. RL > Game

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:32pm by Valkayree
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#23 Sep 06 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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RyanSquires wrote:
I always watch the CS during my first run through of a dungeon. Don't like it? I'll drop the dungeon and i"m sure my SCH will find another PUG before the time you finish typing your all caps response to tell me to hurry up.

I fully understand that if i'm in a PUG that there are people that are going through the first, as a matter of fact, it tells you in the very begining: "hey, jackass, there are players here on their first time through, chill the @#%^ out and wait". Of course, I'm paraphrasing but still.

If your in that big of a hurry, don't do PUGs. Go find some friends that are just as impatient as you are and run dungeons to your hearts content.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:21pm by RyanSquires


You healers are getting spoiled with instaqueue... And it is not impatience, it is rl family aggro sayign no more 2 hour unavailability. Big difference. I shouldn't have to wait to finish my quest because you can run it again later... All I'm saying.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:34pm by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:34pm by Valkayree
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#24 Sep 06 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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How many times have player ran outta time running these things? That is the first item up for discussion. I assume the time is amp enough for everyone, even those with slower connections and slow reading levels to read and watch the CS and fight through the dungeon. If people are finding that leads to a lot of times up dungeon runs, then SE needs to adjust the timers or as Valk suggests, pause the timer during cutscenes. If people finish the dungeons just fine even with 2-5 minutes left, it was still completed - in that case, then fault lies with impatient players trying to rush through yet another part of the game to get to some pot of gold that doesn't actually exist. It is about the story, in Final Fantasy, every time - that is where the gold resides.
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#25 Sep 06 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
RyanSquires wrote:
I always watch the CS during my first run through of a dungeon. Don't like it? I'll drop the dungeon and i"m sure my SCH will find another PUG before the time you finish typing your all caps response to tell me to hurry up.

I fully understand that if i'm in a PUG that there are people that are going through the first, as a matter of fact, it tells you in the very begining: "hey, jackass, there are players here on their first time through, chill the @#%^ out and wait". Of course, I'm paraphrasing but still.

If your in that big of a hurry, don't do PUGs. Go find some friends that are just as impatient as you are and run dungeons to your hearts content.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:21pm by RyanSquires


You healers are getting spoiled with instaqueue... And it is not impatience, it is rl family aggro sayign no more 2 hour unavailability. Big difference. I shouldn't have to wait to finish my quest because you can run it again later... All I'm saying.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:34pm by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:34pm by Valkayree


If you don't want to wait, join a FC or LS that will help you so you can hurry up and get back to your RL. I shouldn't have to rush because your RL is rushing you.

EDIT: I will correct my tone somewhat, I'm fully understanding that people have a limited time to play due to RL issues. Granted, i feel that we are just arguing the same point to a degree, you shouldn't have to wait for me due to RL restraints and i shouldn't have to rush for you due to lack of free time. I do agree with your idea to stop the timer during CS but i promise there will still be people ******** to hurry up.


Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:42pm by RyanSquires
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#26 Sep 06 2013 at 12:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I, for one, watch the cutscenes if it is my first time in the dungeon. I do feel a little guilty, though, knowing that there are probably people waiting for me.

I understand some people want to get it done fast, but first timers have every right to watch every cutscene. You might argue that you can rewatch it back in your inn, but for some people that's besides the point. I'm talking about immersion. I'm one of those people who enjoy the actual journey to lvl 50 just as much as the destination itself. Rewatching it in the inn destroys the immersion for me.

I know some people feel the same way I do, and I know some people beg to differ. There is no right or wrong in this situation, but know that that is an online game where you play with others. If someone wants to watch the story unfold, they have every right to.

Edit: They could make it so that the time limit freezes as long as someone is in a cutscene.

2gil

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:41pm by Threx
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#27 Sep 06 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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silverhope wrote:
wow such backlash over a few min wait. Just let people do what they want they payed for the game they should enjoy the story. If you dont wanna wait than make your own pt. If somone afks for 10 min for no reason than thats a issue but a simple cutsceen.. you guys are over reacting . If you dont finish an instance with 20-40 min left than there is a bigger issue than a simple cutsceen watcher.


The problem is that these missions are hard, people die, and they don't give you enough time to beat the mission and watch the cutscenes in full. We beat Ultima with 12 minutes left... Thats it. Wiped once. What if we had wiped twice? Two hours down the drain. There's just not enough time to enjoy the story as it should be enjoyed is all I'm saying.

And if Duty finder can;t find me a party in two hours, how the heck am I supposed to find 7 other people with the appropriate job, even within my own fc who are all on the same quest, at the same time as me. It doesnt matter, I will never run Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium ever again. I promised my wife.
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#28 Sep 06 2013 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Is everyone just completely missing the issue that the game does not give you enough time to watch the cutscenes in full, and still beat the story with more than 1 wipe?


Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:42pm by Valkayree
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#29 Sep 06 2013 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:
silverhope wrote:
wow such backlash over a few min wait. Just let people do what they want they payed for the game they should enjoy the story. If you dont wanna wait than make your own pt. If somone afks for 10 min for no reason than thats a issue but a simple cutsceen.. you guys are over reacting . If you dont finish an instance with 20-40 min left than there is a bigger issue than a simple cutsceen watcher.


The problem is that these missions are hard, people die, and they don't give you enough time to beat the mission and watch the cutscenes in full. We beat Ultima with 12 minutes left... Thats it. Wiped once. What if we had wiped twice? Two hours down the drain. There's just not enough time to enjoy the story as it should be enjoyed is all I'm saying.

And if Duty finder can;t find me a party in two hours, how the heck am I supposed to find 7 other people with the appropriate job, even within my own fc who are all on the same quest, at the same time as me. It doesnt matter, I will never run Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium ever again. I promised my wife.


Then you guys were VERY slow.

I won with 40 minutes on the clock skipping only the final cutscene and we wiped twice.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:47pm by Louiscool
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#30 Sep 06 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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RyanSquires wrote:
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RyanSquires wrote:
I always watch the CS during my first run through of a dungeon. Don't like it? I'll drop the dungeon and i"m sure my SCH will find another PUG before the time you finish typing your all caps response to tell me to hurry up.

I fully understand that if i'm in a PUG that there are people that are going through the first, as a matter of fact, it tells you in the very begining: "hey, jackass, there are players here on their first time through, chill the @#%^ out and wait". Of course, I'm paraphrasing but still.

If your in that big of a hurry, don't do PUGs. Go find some friends that are just as impatient as you are and run dungeons to your hearts content.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:21pm by RyanSquires


You healers are getting spoiled with instaqueue... And it is not impatience, it is rl family aggro sayign no more 2 hour unavailability. Big difference. I shouldn't have to wait to finish my quest because you can run it again later... All I'm saying.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:34pm by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:34pm by Valkayree


If you don't want to wait, join a FC or LS that will help you so you can hurry up and get back to your RL. I shouldn't have to rush because your RL is rushing you.

EDIT: I will correct my tone somewhat, I'm fully understanding that people have a limited time to play due to RL issues. Granted, i feel that we are just arguing the same point to a degree, you shouldn't have to wait for me due to RL restraints and i shouldn't have to rush for you due to lack of free time. I do agree with your idea to stop the timer during CS but i promise there will still be people ******** to hurry up.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:42pm by RyanSquires


Thats the point. I agree. My entire point of the post was that this player issue will not be resolved just like Republicans and Democrats will never 100% agree. But you can fix it by removing the **** timer. My issue isn't finishing the mission in 2 hours and 10 minutes because of cutscenes. My issue is wiping due to time after 2 hours in the duty finder and two hours in the mission, so I can spend anohter 2 hours in duty finder and 2 hours in the mission. Thats 8 hours vs 2 hours and 10 extra minutes I would happily spend watching the cutscenes myself if I wasnt so afraid of the time crunch.
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#31 Sep 06 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:

And if Duty finder can;t find me a party in two hours, how the heck am I supposed to find 7 other people with the appropriate job, even within my own fc who are all on the same quest, at the same time as me. It doesnt matter, I will never run Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium ever again. I promised my wife.



You seriously can't find 7 people in your FC that can cover the 7 positions? Maybe increase your LS and/or FC? that or find something else to do while using the DF. I have never waited more then 30 mins for any dungeon thus far either using or not using the DF. yes, yes i'm a healer so i don't know the hardships a DPS has to endure, guess what, there is a reason i'm a healer and not a DPS, because i knew that healers had an easier time getting parties, i will do a DPS job once the game balances out and DPS get more invites.
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#32 Sep 06 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
silverhope wrote:
wow such backlash over a few min wait. Just let people do what they want they payed for the game they should enjoy the story. If you dont wanna wait than make your own pt. If somone afks for 10 min for no reason than thats a issue but a simple cutsceen.. you guys are over reacting . If you dont finish an instance with 20-40 min left than there is a bigger issue than a simple cutsceen watcher.


The problem is that these missions are hard, people die, and they don't give you enough time to beat the mission and watch the cutscenes in full. We beat Ultima with 12 minutes left... Thats it. Wiped once. What if we had wiped twice? Two hours down the drain. There's just not enough time to enjoy the story as it should be enjoyed is all I'm saying.

And if Duty finder can;t find me a party in two hours, how the heck am I supposed to find 7 other people with the appropriate job, even within my own fc who are all on the same quest, at the same time as me. It doesnt matter, I will never run Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium ever again. I promised my wife.


Then you guys were VERY slow.

I won with 40 minutes on the clock skipping only the final cutscene and we wiped twice.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:47pm by Louiscool


Well half of it was the tank and healers who were cs skippers arguing with the dd who were cs watchers, and me in the middle. I just didnt want this to be my second attempt failed due to a broken party over the same issue, so I was trying to keep the peace.
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#33 Sep 06 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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No.

I'm playing a game with a story, I'm watching/reading the story as I play it. That's not ignorance or disrespect it's quite literally how the game is designed to be played. When I enter a cut scene I just pop a quick "cs" in party chat so everyone is aware, they can wait a minute or two while I enjoy my video game. This isn't a job, I have no obligation to skip content just because you (not you specifically) don't want to watch it.

If you want to speed run dungeons, make a group and agree to those terms prior to entering, this has the added benefit of allowing you to run multiple runs without waiting on the duty finder.

I shouldn't have to piece together the story post run just because you're too impatient to wait a couple of minutes at a boss fight/[insert cs starting event here].

You do have a point about dropping CS skippers directly into a fight though, haven't seen that myself but that's definitely a huge design flaw.
#34 Sep 06 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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RyanSquires wrote:
Valkayree wrote:

And if Duty finder can;t find me a party in two hours, how the heck am I supposed to find 7 other people with the appropriate job, even within my own fc who are all on the same quest, at the same time as me. It doesnt matter, I will never run Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium ever again. I promised my wife.



You seriously can't find 7 people in your FC that can cover the 7 positions? Maybe increase your LS and/or FC? that or find something else to do while using the DF. I have never waited more then 30 mins for any dungeon thus far either using or not using the DF. yes, yes i'm a healer so i don't know the hardships a DPS has to endure, guess what, there is a reason i'm a healer and not a DPS, because i knew that healers had an easier time getting parties, i will do a DPS job once the game balances out and DPS get more invites.


We've got 200 and most arent up there yet. That's ok. I'll stick with ZAM though, they are a good bunch. Nice group of people looking to help out. I'm not going to rush them to keep up with my schedule, just as I would not expect them to rush me to keep up with theirs. I'm not going to run off to join elitists because that is not what I am about. But I also dont want to spend 8 hours trying to beat a mission that all I want to do is complete once.

And I'm super happy that you are happy with your healing job, here, take one of these. Smiley: cookie I live, breathe and sleep black mage and blue mage, and I think it is fairly upsetting that four plus classes are grouped into the term "dps". I think a black mage is not only dd, it is crowd control, and there should be one in every party.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:55pm by Valkayree
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#35 Sep 06 2013 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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And the story is great, and not all of it is available in the inn. I love the story, I want to watch it too. Ultimately you can't blame the player, it is a design issue. We were not allowed to get this far in beta or early access, so no one really got an opportunity to test the drawbacks that these cutscenes would have while the timer would run.

This right here seals it. If there's story that cannot be watched out of context, then sorry, you're gonna have to deal with first time watchers. I would say you have to deal with it anyway because story, but if this is the case then you definitely have to deal with it. You even said, you finished your dungeon with time to spare, and that was with arguing going on in your run. Everyone else is saying they haven't had problems finishing. I agree that they should not drop you straight into battle, and not count timers while someone is in a CS, but that one could be an exploit.. (one dps stays in the CS and the rest of the group clears trash) but I can't agree with getting upset at people that want to watch story. This is FF, it's all about story.

And really, how long are these later cut scenes? I mean, if you had to wait an hour in the queue, is it really worth complaining about 15 min worth of waiting spread out over a dungeon during the run? That 15 min won't break that isn't already broken, and is a price worth paying to continue with a group that's moving along and not bickering. What if your tank wants to watch them, is it ok to berate them? They'll drop you so fast and then you're waiting a lot longer than 15 min.
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#36 Sep 06 2013 at 1:02 PM Rating: Default
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Just an FYI some parts of the last fight you CAN NOT WATCH AGAIN. Yeah, skipping is the answer.
#37 Sep 06 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Yodabunny wrote:
No.

I'm playing a game with a story, I'm watching/reading the story as I play it. That's not ignorance or disrespect it's quite literally how the game is designed to be played. When I enter a cut scene I just pop a quick "cs" in party chat so everyone is aware, they can wait a minute or two while I enjoy my video game. This isn't a job, I have no obligation to skip content just because you (not you specifically) don't want to watch it.

If you want to speed run dungeons, make a group and agree to those terms prior to entering, this has the added benefit of allowing you to run multiple runs without waiting on the duty finder.

I shouldn't have to piece together the story post run just because you're too impatient to wait a couple of minutes at a boss fight/[insert cs starting event here].

You do have a point about dropping CS skippers directly into a fight though, haven't seen that myself but that's definitely a huge design flaw.


Good points. However, it has noting to do with impatience. I like the cutscenes as well. When I have to, and only when I have to, I go duty finder. Seems like everyone posting prides themself on their awesome skill, prepreparation, and vehemant right to watch the story as they see fit. That's the group mentality I guess. So does this mean that I can slow down while walking across the middle of the intersection while heading into Walmart, turn to look at the guy blaring his horn, and give him the middle finger? Why not!, if you can't beat em, join em.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:05pm by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:13pm by Valkayree
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#38 Sep 06 2013 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Anakte wrote:
[quote] You even said, you finished your dungeon with time to spare, and that was with arguing going on in your run. Everyone else is saying they haven't had problems finishing. I agree that they should not drop you straight into battle, and not count timers while someone is in a CS, but that one could be an exploit.. (one dps stays in the CS and the rest of the group clears trash) but I can't agree with getting upset at people that want to watch story. This is FF, it's all about story.

And really, how long are these later cut scenes? I mean, if you had to wait an hour in the queue, is it really worth complaining about 15 min worth of waiting spread out over a dungeon during the run? That 15 min won't break that isn't already broken, and is a price worth paying to continue with a group that's moving along and not bickering. What if your tank wants to watch them, is it ok to berate them? They'll drop you so fast and then you're waiting a lot longer than 15 min.


Yeah, that exploit is a good point. And that is tru abotu the tank. Happened first go but the healers were arguing with the tank and the healers dropped, then a dd, then the other tank. Maybe I just had two really bad experiences in a row? Perhaps they could make watching the cutscenes mandatory, and dont count time in cs as time spend in the battle? I really liked what I saw of the last cutscenes, I wish I would have gotten to watch them because it put all of your party members in the cs with you. Really cool, but I did feel like in both parties I was forced out of cs... I joined in with the anti cs stance eventually because at that time I agreed that everyone completing the quest > my selfish want to read. But I didn't like skipping them, that's for sure.
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#39 Sep 06 2013 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Valkayree wrote:
Is everyone just completely missing the issue that the game does not give you enough time to watch the cutscenes in full, and still beat the story with more than 1 wipe?


Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:42pm by Valkayree


THAT'S the issue then. The issue is the dungeons don't allow enough time to account for cutscenes; the issue is not that people are watching cutscenes.

I'm a reasonably hardcore guy when it comes to my gaming. I understand your frustration with people watching cutscenes while the timer is ticking down, especially if you're going to end up in time trouble. My problem here though, is that you're putting the blame in the wrong place.

If there isn't enough time to both do the dungeon and watch the cutscenes, then the timer needs to be extended. The dungeon was designed to be played with the cutscenes in there. It's possible SE just made a math error when calculating how much time that actually takes so that now you feel like you need to run through and cut as many seconds off the clock as possible.

Another point of confusion is this: before the dungeon starts, when you're in that circle of waiting, you're waiting for a cutscenes to play out... that whole scene goes before the timer starts and the circle goes away. Why isn't that used for the rest of the cutscenes in a dungeon? Stop the timer, let the cutscene run for those who want it, resume the dungeon when they're done. Done.

I have another question for you if the above somehow doesn't apply in your situation. If you're seriously concerned about time management and player attitude in your dungeon runs, why are you running with randoms? Why would you not put together a premade group of people you KNOW are going to take it as seriously as you do? As soon as you open yourself up to random matchmaking, you open yourself up to whatever you get. You don't get to complain that you got random people.
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#40 Sep 06 2013 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
Is everyone just completely missing the issue that the game does not give you enough time to watch the cutscenes in full, and still beat the story with more than 1 wipe?


Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:42pm by Valkayree


THAT'S the issue then. The issue is the dungeons don't allow enough time to account for cutscenes; the issue is not that people are watching cutscenes.



You are correct sir.
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#41 Sep 06 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:
So does this mean that I can slow down while walking across the middle of the intersection while heading into Walmart, turn to look at the guy blaring his horn, and give him the middle finger?


Nope. It means you can stop at the stop light where no-one should be honking at you because it's the spot you are supposed to stop at.

I'm not faulting your time limitations, I understand them very well. I have a 7 month old a 6 year old and a 12 year old, full time job, wife, ex wife, house, big back yard, other family obligations etc. I play maybe 8-10 hours a week on a good week. So if I don't have time to start/run/finish a piece of content I just have to do something else. It sucks, but the world shouldn't have to conform to our time restraints just because it's inconvenient for us.
#42 Sep 06 2013 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Threx wrote:
I, for one, watch the cutscenes if it is my first time in the dungeon. I do feel a little guilty, though, knowing that there are probably people waiting for me.

I understand some people want to get it done fast, but first timers have every right to watch every cutscene. You might argue that you can rewatch it back in your inn, but for some people that's besides the point. I'm talking about immersion. I'm one of those people who enjoy the actual journey to lvl 50 just as much as the destination itself. Rewatching it in the inn destroys the immersion for me.

I know some people feel the same way I do, and I know some people beg to differ. There is no right or wrong in this situation, but know that that is an online game where you play with others. If someone wants to watch the story unfold, they have every right to.

Edit: They could make it so that the time limit freezes as long as someone is in a cutscene.

2gil

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:41pm by Threx


If it's your first time through the dungeon, your party members are getting a substantial XP bonus. Consider your cutscene viewing time paid for.
#43 Sep 06 2013 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:

I have another question for you if the above somehow doesn't apply in your situation. If you're seriously concerned about time management and player attitude in your dungeon runs, why are you running with randoms? Why would you not put together a premade group of people you KNOW are going to take it as seriously as you do? As soon as you open yourself up to random matchmaking, you open yourself up to whatever you get. You don't get to complain that you got random people.


I was waiting on my usual group for a few days, but they were kind of doing other things, wife got upset I was spending so much time waiting, drew similarites to FFXI, and I had just made this long happy monologue about how this game is not FFXIV and I wouldn't be waiting forever... So I hit duty finder. You are correct, I can't complain about the randoms. I guess I just imagined a more idealistic duty finder where everyone got paired up instantly since it was across all worlds. I mean 300,000 people and duty finder can't find 7 that want to run the same dungeon as me?

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:21pm by Valkayree
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#44 Sep 06 2013 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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In XI, while you were dropped into battle after finishing a CS, you had a minute or so to actually engage after the first person dropped out of CS before you were forced to engage. (By forced, it usually meant an NPC charged on ahead of you.) If someone just started fighting while everyone else was in the CS, that was their problem. (Repeat runners also got the option to flat out skip the cutscene for some battles.)

Is that not the case in XIV? Because if it is not, then it is a massive oversight and ought to be fixed.

If it is the case, folks need better communication. "In CS" is all it takes to let people know you're not quite free to fight yet.
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#45 Sep 06 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
So does this mean that I can slow down while walking across the middle of the intersection while heading into Walmart, turn to look at the guy blaring his horn, and give him the middle finger?


Nope. It means you can stop at the stop light where no-one should be honking at you because it's the spot you are supposed to stop at.

I'm not faulting your time limitations, I understand them very well. I have a 7 month old a 6 year old and a 12 year old, full time job, wife, ex wife, house, big back yard, other family obligations etc. I play maybe 8-10 hours a week on a good week. So if I don't have time to start/run/finish a piece of content I just have to do something else. It sucks, but the world shouldn't have to conform to our time restraints just because it's inconvenient for us.


I could use the same argument to explain why I shouldn't have to wait on someone to watch a cut scene because it would be inconvenient for them not to. But I'm not going to do that... You are entitled to play as well, my very busy friend.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:23pm by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:24pm by Valkayree
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#46 Sep 06 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sounds to me like the real issue is the dungeon timer continues to count down while a player is in a cutscene. From what I've seen, the game already knows when you are viewing a cutscene (the little video icon appears above them). So it shouldn't be that bad for them to just pause the timer while anyone is watching a cutscene. When doing the first three dungeons over and over during phase 3, I was never mad at anyone for watching them, I just sat and waited for them to finish even though I personally skipped them after the first time.
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More often than not, there's plenty of time left at the end of a run. If a group is cutting it short on time, cutscenes are probably towards the bottom of the list of reasons the group failed.

Furthermore, there has been a time when everyone has had to take a minute for a bio break, phone call, kids/wife/gf/parent, drink refill, pizza guy, etc. Also, if you're on a time constraint, it is better to do something solo where you're in control rather than in a group setting where you rely on X amount of other players. Not to sound like a jerk, but i shouldn't be responsible to meet your scheduling demands.
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#48 Sep 06 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
In XI, while you were dropped into battle after finishing a CS, you had a minute or so to actually engage after the first person dropped out of CS before you were forced to engage. (By forced, it usually meant an NPC charged on ahead of you.) If someone just started fighting while everyone else was in the CS, that was their problem. (Repeat runners also got the option to flat out skip the cutscene for some battles.)

Is that not the case in XIV? Because if it is not, then it is a massive oversight and ought to be fixed.

If it is the case, folks need better communication. "In CS" is all it takes to let people know you're not quite free to fight yet.


Ha, thing is, the game TELLS you who is in a cutscene on the party window, so there's no excuse.
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TirithRR wrote:
Sounds to me like the real issue is the dungeon timer continues to count down while a player is in a cutscene. From what I've seen, the game already knows when you are viewing a cutscene (the little video icon appears above them). So it shouldn't be that bad for them to just pause the timer while anyone is watching a cutscene. When doing the first three dungeons over and over during phase 3, I was never mad at anyone for watching them, I just sat and waited for them to finish even though I personally skipped them after the first time.


It is not bad at all in any other dungeons other than Clastrum Meridianum and Praetorium. Assuming that everyone is pressing the X button as soon as they possibly can, the total cs time is nearly a quarter of the overall time you are allowed in the dungeon (I would be interested in an exact measurement).
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#50 Sep 06 2013 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:

We've got 200 and most arent up there yet. That's ok. I'll stick with ZAM though, they are a good bunch. Nice group of people looking to help out. I'm not going to rush them to keep up with my schedule, just as I would not expect them to rush me to keep up with theirs. I'm not going to run off to join elitists because that is not what I am about. But I also dont want to spend 8 hours trying to beat a mission that all I want to do is complete once.
Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:55pm by Valkayree


I'm trying to be understanding, but now your just not making sense. You commented to me previously that you have RL pulling you away from the game and don't feel you should have to wait around for me to do something i could do later, but here you say your not rushing people to keep up with your schedule, please make up your mind.

Valkayree wrote:

And I'm super happy that you are happy with your healing job, here, take one of these. Smiley: cookie I live, breathe and sleep black mage and blue mage, and I think it is fairly upsetting that four plus classes are grouped into the term "dps". I think a black mage is not only dd, it is crowd control, and there should be one in every party.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:55pm by Valkayree


Don't pull that cookie crap with me. Yes I'm happy with my job, just because your not happy with yours, and crying that SE put your baby into DPS is stupid. We all knew ahead of time that SE made 3 roles for this game, TANK, DPS, HEALER. Now, if enough people complain enough that there is not enough diversity or whatever you want to call it so your DPS isn't labeled a DPS then SE may make changes to the DF or party make-up.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 3:28pm by RyanSquires
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#51 Sep 06 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
Catwho wrote:
In XI, while you were dropped into battle after finishing a CS, you had a minute or so to actually engage after the first person dropped out of CS before you were forced to engage. (By forced, it usually meant an NPC charged on ahead of you.) If someone just started fighting while everyone else was in the CS, that was their problem. (Repeat runners also got the option to flat out skip the cutscene for some battles.)

Is that not the case in XIV? Because if it is not, then it is a massive oversight and ought to be fixed.

If it is the case, folks need better communication. "In CS" is all it takes to let people know you're not quite free to fight yet.


Ha, thing is, the game TELLS you who is in a cutscene on the party window, so there's no excuse.


And at least on two instances, my squishy black mage has literally been dropped out of a cutscene directly into battle (and it wasn't because someone in the party aggroed, this literally dropped you right in).
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