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#27 Sep 06 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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silverhope wrote:
wow such backlash over a few min wait. Just let people do what they want they payed for the game they should enjoy the story. If you dont wanna wait than make your own pt. If somone afks for 10 min for no reason than thats a issue but a simple cutsceen.. you guys are over reacting . If you dont finish an instance with 20-40 min left than there is a bigger issue than a simple cutsceen watcher.


The problem is that these missions are hard, people die, and they don't give you enough time to beat the mission and watch the cutscenes in full. We beat Ultima with 12 minutes left... Thats it. Wiped once. What if we had wiped twice? Two hours down the drain. There's just not enough time to enjoy the story as it should be enjoyed is all I'm saying.

And if Duty finder can;t find me a party in two hours, how the heck am I supposed to find 7 other people with the appropriate job, even within my own fc who are all on the same quest, at the same time as me. It doesnt matter, I will never run Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium ever again. I promised my wife.
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#28 Sep 06 2013 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Is everyone just completely missing the issue that the game does not give you enough time to watch the cutscenes in full, and still beat the story with more than 1 wipe?


Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:42pm by Valkayree
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#29 Sep 06 2013 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:
silverhope wrote:
wow such backlash over a few min wait. Just let people do what they want they payed for the game they should enjoy the story. If you dont wanna wait than make your own pt. If somone afks for 10 min for no reason than thats a issue but a simple cutsceen.. you guys are over reacting . If you dont finish an instance with 20-40 min left than there is a bigger issue than a simple cutsceen watcher.


The problem is that these missions are hard, people die, and they don't give you enough time to beat the mission and watch the cutscenes in full. We beat Ultima with 12 minutes left... Thats it. Wiped once. What if we had wiped twice? Two hours down the drain. There's just not enough time to enjoy the story as it should be enjoyed is all I'm saying.

And if Duty finder can;t find me a party in two hours, how the heck am I supposed to find 7 other people with the appropriate job, even within my own fc who are all on the same quest, at the same time as me. It doesnt matter, I will never run Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium ever again. I promised my wife.


Then you guys were VERY slow.

I won with 40 minutes on the clock skipping only the final cutscene and we wiped twice.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:47pm by Louiscool
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#30 Sep 06 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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RyanSquires wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
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I always watch the CS during my first run through of a dungeon. Don't like it? I'll drop the dungeon and i"m sure my SCH will find another PUG before the time you finish typing your all caps response to tell me to hurry up.

I fully understand that if i'm in a PUG that there are people that are going through the first, as a matter of fact, it tells you in the very begining: "hey, jackass, there are players here on their first time through, chill the @#%^ out and wait". Of course, I'm paraphrasing but still.

If your in that big of a hurry, don't do PUGs. Go find some friends that are just as impatient as you are and run dungeons to your hearts content.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:21pm by RyanSquires


You healers are getting spoiled with instaqueue... And it is not impatience, it is rl family aggro sayign no more 2 hour unavailability. Big difference. I shouldn't have to wait to finish my quest because you can run it again later... All I'm saying.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:34pm by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:34pm by Valkayree


If you don't want to wait, join a FC or LS that will help you so you can hurry up and get back to your RL. I shouldn't have to rush because your RL is rushing you.

EDIT: I will correct my tone somewhat, I'm fully understanding that people have a limited time to play due to RL issues. Granted, i feel that we are just arguing the same point to a degree, you shouldn't have to wait for me due to RL restraints and i shouldn't have to rush for you due to lack of free time. I do agree with your idea to stop the timer during CS but i promise there will still be people ******** to hurry up.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:42pm by RyanSquires


Thats the point. I agree. My entire point of the post was that this player issue will not be resolved just like Republicans and Democrats will never 100% agree. But you can fix it by removing the **** timer. My issue isn't finishing the mission in 2 hours and 10 minutes because of cutscenes. My issue is wiping due to time after 2 hours in the duty finder and two hours in the mission, so I can spend anohter 2 hours in duty finder and 2 hours in the mission. Thats 8 hours vs 2 hours and 10 extra minutes I would happily spend watching the cutscenes myself if I wasnt so afraid of the time crunch.
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#31 Sep 06 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:

And if Duty finder can;t find me a party in two hours, how the heck am I supposed to find 7 other people with the appropriate job, even within my own fc who are all on the same quest, at the same time as me. It doesnt matter, I will never run Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium ever again. I promised my wife.



You seriously can't find 7 people in your FC that can cover the 7 positions? Maybe increase your LS and/or FC? that or find something else to do while using the DF. I have never waited more then 30 mins for any dungeon thus far either using or not using the DF. yes, yes i'm a healer so i don't know the hardships a DPS has to endure, guess what, there is a reason i'm a healer and not a DPS, because i knew that healers had an easier time getting parties, i will do a DPS job once the game balances out and DPS get more invites.
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#32 Sep 06 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
silverhope wrote:
wow such backlash over a few min wait. Just let people do what they want they payed for the game they should enjoy the story. If you dont wanna wait than make your own pt. If somone afks for 10 min for no reason than thats a issue but a simple cutsceen.. you guys are over reacting . If you dont finish an instance with 20-40 min left than there is a bigger issue than a simple cutsceen watcher.


The problem is that these missions are hard, people die, and they don't give you enough time to beat the mission and watch the cutscenes in full. We beat Ultima with 12 minutes left... Thats it. Wiped once. What if we had wiped twice? Two hours down the drain. There's just not enough time to enjoy the story as it should be enjoyed is all I'm saying.

And if Duty finder can;t find me a party in two hours, how the heck am I supposed to find 7 other people with the appropriate job, even within my own fc who are all on the same quest, at the same time as me. It doesnt matter, I will never run Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium ever again. I promised my wife.


Then you guys were VERY slow.

I won with 40 minutes on the clock skipping only the final cutscene and we wiped twice.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:47pm by Louiscool


Well half of it was the tank and healers who were cs skippers arguing with the dd who were cs watchers, and me in the middle. I just didnt want this to be my second attempt failed due to a broken party over the same issue, so I was trying to keep the peace.
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#33 Sep 06 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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No.

I'm playing a game with a story, I'm watching/reading the story as I play it. That's not ignorance or disrespect it's quite literally how the game is designed to be played. When I enter a cut scene I just pop a quick "cs" in party chat so everyone is aware, they can wait a minute or two while I enjoy my video game. This isn't a job, I have no obligation to skip content just because you (not you specifically) don't want to watch it.

If you want to speed run dungeons, make a group and agree to those terms prior to entering, this has the added benefit of allowing you to run multiple runs without waiting on the duty finder.

I shouldn't have to piece together the story post run just because you're too impatient to wait a couple of minutes at a boss fight/[insert cs starting event here].

You do have a point about dropping CS skippers directly into a fight though, haven't seen that myself but that's definitely a huge design flaw.
#34 Sep 06 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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RyanSquires wrote:
Valkayree wrote:

And if Duty finder can;t find me a party in two hours, how the heck am I supposed to find 7 other people with the appropriate job, even within my own fc who are all on the same quest, at the same time as me. It doesnt matter, I will never run Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium ever again. I promised my wife.



You seriously can't find 7 people in your FC that can cover the 7 positions? Maybe increase your LS and/or FC? that or find something else to do while using the DF. I have never waited more then 30 mins for any dungeon thus far either using or not using the DF. yes, yes i'm a healer so i don't know the hardships a DPS has to endure, guess what, there is a reason i'm a healer and not a DPS, because i knew that healers had an easier time getting parties, i will do a DPS job once the game balances out and DPS get more invites.


We've got 200 and most arent up there yet. That's ok. I'll stick with ZAM though, they are a good bunch. Nice group of people looking to help out. I'm not going to rush them to keep up with my schedule, just as I would not expect them to rush me to keep up with theirs. I'm not going to run off to join elitists because that is not what I am about. But I also dont want to spend 8 hours trying to beat a mission that all I want to do is complete once.

And I'm super happy that you are happy with your healing job, here, take one of these. Smiley: cookie I live, breathe and sleep black mage and blue mage, and I think it is fairly upsetting that four plus classes are grouped into the term "dps". I think a black mage is not only dd, it is crowd control, and there should be one in every party.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:55pm by Valkayree
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#35 Sep 06 2013 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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And the story is great, and not all of it is available in the inn. I love the story, I want to watch it too. Ultimately you can't blame the player, it is a design issue. We were not allowed to get this far in beta or early access, so no one really got an opportunity to test the drawbacks that these cutscenes would have while the timer would run.

This right here seals it. If there's story that cannot be watched out of context, then sorry, you're gonna have to deal with first time watchers. I would say you have to deal with it anyway because story, but if this is the case then you definitely have to deal with it. You even said, you finished your dungeon with time to spare, and that was with arguing going on in your run. Everyone else is saying they haven't had problems finishing. I agree that they should not drop you straight into battle, and not count timers while someone is in a CS, but that one could be an exploit.. (one dps stays in the CS and the rest of the group clears trash) but I can't agree with getting upset at people that want to watch story. This is FF, it's all about story.

And really, how long are these later cut scenes? I mean, if you had to wait an hour in the queue, is it really worth complaining about 15 min worth of waiting spread out over a dungeon during the run? That 15 min won't break that isn't already broken, and is a price worth paying to continue with a group that's moving along and not bickering. What if your tank wants to watch them, is it ok to berate them? They'll drop you so fast and then you're waiting a lot longer than 15 min.
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#36 Sep 06 2013 at 1:02 PM Rating: Default
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Just an FYI some parts of the last fight you CAN NOT WATCH AGAIN. Yeah, skipping is the answer.
#37 Sep 06 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Yodabunny wrote:
No.

I'm playing a game with a story, I'm watching/reading the story as I play it. That's not ignorance or disrespect it's quite literally how the game is designed to be played. When I enter a cut scene I just pop a quick "cs" in party chat so everyone is aware, they can wait a minute or two while I enjoy my video game. This isn't a job, I have no obligation to skip content just because you (not you specifically) don't want to watch it.

If you want to speed run dungeons, make a group and agree to those terms prior to entering, this has the added benefit of allowing you to run multiple runs without waiting on the duty finder.

I shouldn't have to piece together the story post run just because you're too impatient to wait a couple of minutes at a boss fight/[insert cs starting event here].

You do have a point about dropping CS skippers directly into a fight though, haven't seen that myself but that's definitely a huge design flaw.


Good points. However, it has noting to do with impatience. I like the cutscenes as well. When I have to, and only when I have to, I go duty finder. Seems like everyone posting prides themself on their awesome skill, prepreparation, and vehemant right to watch the story as they see fit. That's the group mentality I guess. So does this mean that I can slow down while walking across the middle of the intersection while heading into Walmart, turn to look at the guy blaring his horn, and give him the middle finger? Why not!, if you can't beat em, join em.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:05pm by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:13pm by Valkayree
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#38 Sep 06 2013 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Anakte wrote:
[quote] You even said, you finished your dungeon with time to spare, and that was with arguing going on in your run. Everyone else is saying they haven't had problems finishing. I agree that they should not drop you straight into battle, and not count timers while someone is in a CS, but that one could be an exploit.. (one dps stays in the CS and the rest of the group clears trash) but I can't agree with getting upset at people that want to watch story. This is FF, it's all about story.

And really, how long are these later cut scenes? I mean, if you had to wait an hour in the queue, is it really worth complaining about 15 min worth of waiting spread out over a dungeon during the run? That 15 min won't break that isn't already broken, and is a price worth paying to continue with a group that's moving along and not bickering. What if your tank wants to watch them, is it ok to berate them? They'll drop you so fast and then you're waiting a lot longer than 15 min.


Yeah, that exploit is a good point. And that is tru abotu the tank. Happened first go but the healers were arguing with the tank and the healers dropped, then a dd, then the other tank. Maybe I just had two really bad experiences in a row? Perhaps they could make watching the cutscenes mandatory, and dont count time in cs as time spend in the battle? I really liked what I saw of the last cutscenes, I wish I would have gotten to watch them because it put all of your party members in the cs with you. Really cool, but I did feel like in both parties I was forced out of cs... I joined in with the anti cs stance eventually because at that time I agreed that everyone completing the quest > my selfish want to read. But I didn't like skipping them, that's for sure.
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#39 Sep 06 2013 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Valkayree wrote:
Is everyone just completely missing the issue that the game does not give you enough time to watch the cutscenes in full, and still beat the story with more than 1 wipe?


Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:42pm by Valkayree


THAT'S the issue then. The issue is the dungeons don't allow enough time to account for cutscenes; the issue is not that people are watching cutscenes.

I'm a reasonably hardcore guy when it comes to my gaming. I understand your frustration with people watching cutscenes while the timer is ticking down, especially if you're going to end up in time trouble. My problem here though, is that you're putting the blame in the wrong place.

If there isn't enough time to both do the dungeon and watch the cutscenes, then the timer needs to be extended. The dungeon was designed to be played with the cutscenes in there. It's possible SE just made a math error when calculating how much time that actually takes so that now you feel like you need to run through and cut as many seconds off the clock as possible.

Another point of confusion is this: before the dungeon starts, when you're in that circle of waiting, you're waiting for a cutscenes to play out... that whole scene goes before the timer starts and the circle goes away. Why isn't that used for the rest of the cutscenes in a dungeon? Stop the timer, let the cutscene run for those who want it, resume the dungeon when they're done. Done.

I have another question for you if the above somehow doesn't apply in your situation. If you're seriously concerned about time management and player attitude in your dungeon runs, why are you running with randoms? Why would you not put together a premade group of people you KNOW are going to take it as seriously as you do? As soon as you open yourself up to random matchmaking, you open yourself up to whatever you get. You don't get to complain that you got random people.
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#40 Sep 06 2013 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
Is everyone just completely missing the issue that the game does not give you enough time to watch the cutscenes in full, and still beat the story with more than 1 wipe?


Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:42pm by Valkayree


THAT'S the issue then. The issue is the dungeons don't allow enough time to account for cutscenes; the issue is not that people are watching cutscenes.



You are correct sir.
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#41 Sep 06 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:
So does this mean that I can slow down while walking across the middle of the intersection while heading into Walmart, turn to look at the guy blaring his horn, and give him the middle finger?


Nope. It means you can stop at the stop light where no-one should be honking at you because it's the spot you are supposed to stop at.

I'm not faulting your time limitations, I understand them very well. I have a 7 month old a 6 year old and a 12 year old, full time job, wife, ex wife, house, big back yard, other family obligations etc. I play maybe 8-10 hours a week on a good week. So if I don't have time to start/run/finish a piece of content I just have to do something else. It sucks, but the world shouldn't have to conform to our time restraints just because it's inconvenient for us.
#42 Sep 06 2013 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Threx wrote:
I, for one, watch the cutscenes if it is my first time in the dungeon. I do feel a little guilty, though, knowing that there are probably people waiting for me.

I understand some people want to get it done fast, but first timers have every right to watch every cutscene. You might argue that you can rewatch it back in your inn, but for some people that's besides the point. I'm talking about immersion. I'm one of those people who enjoy the actual journey to lvl 50 just as much as the destination itself. Rewatching it in the inn destroys the immersion for me.

I know some people feel the same way I do, and I know some people beg to differ. There is no right or wrong in this situation, but know that that is an online game where you play with others. If someone wants to watch the story unfold, they have every right to.

Edit: They could make it so that the time limit freezes as long as someone is in a cutscene.

2gil

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:41pm by Threx


If it's your first time through the dungeon, your party members are getting a substantial XP bonus. Consider your cutscene viewing time paid for.
#43 Sep 06 2013 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:

I have another question for you if the above somehow doesn't apply in your situation. If you're seriously concerned about time management and player attitude in your dungeon runs, why are you running with randoms? Why would you not put together a premade group of people you KNOW are going to take it as seriously as you do? As soon as you open yourself up to random matchmaking, you open yourself up to whatever you get. You don't get to complain that you got random people.


I was waiting on my usual group for a few days, but they were kind of doing other things, wife got upset I was spending so much time waiting, drew similarites to FFXI, and I had just made this long happy monologue about how this game is not FFXIV and I wouldn't be waiting forever... So I hit duty finder. You are correct, I can't complain about the randoms. I guess I just imagined a more idealistic duty finder where everyone got paired up instantly since it was across all worlds. I mean 300,000 people and duty finder can't find 7 that want to run the same dungeon as me?

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:21pm by Valkayree
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#44 Sep 06 2013 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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In XI, while you were dropped into battle after finishing a CS, you had a minute or so to actually engage after the first person dropped out of CS before you were forced to engage. (By forced, it usually meant an NPC charged on ahead of you.) If someone just started fighting while everyone else was in the CS, that was their problem. (Repeat runners also got the option to flat out skip the cutscene for some battles.)

Is that not the case in XIV? Because if it is not, then it is a massive oversight and ought to be fixed.

If it is the case, folks need better communication. "In CS" is all it takes to let people know you're not quite free to fight yet.
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#45 Sep 06 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
So does this mean that I can slow down while walking across the middle of the intersection while heading into Walmart, turn to look at the guy blaring his horn, and give him the middle finger?


Nope. It means you can stop at the stop light where no-one should be honking at you because it's the spot you are supposed to stop at.

I'm not faulting your time limitations, I understand them very well. I have a 7 month old a 6 year old and a 12 year old, full time job, wife, ex wife, house, big back yard, other family obligations etc. I play maybe 8-10 hours a week on a good week. So if I don't have time to start/run/finish a piece of content I just have to do something else. It sucks, but the world shouldn't have to conform to our time restraints just because it's inconvenient for us.


I could use the same argument to explain why I shouldn't have to wait on someone to watch a cut scene because it would be inconvenient for them not to. But I'm not going to do that... You are entitled to play as well, my very busy friend.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:23pm by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:24pm by Valkayree
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#46 Sep 06 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sounds to me like the real issue is the dungeon timer continues to count down while a player is in a cutscene. From what I've seen, the game already knows when you are viewing a cutscene (the little video icon appears above them). So it shouldn't be that bad for them to just pause the timer while anyone is watching a cutscene. When doing the first three dungeons over and over during phase 3, I was never mad at anyone for watching them, I just sat and waited for them to finish even though I personally skipped them after the first time.
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#47 Sep 06 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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More often than not, there's plenty of time left at the end of a run. If a group is cutting it short on time, cutscenes are probably towards the bottom of the list of reasons the group failed.

Furthermore, there has been a time when everyone has had to take a minute for a bio break, phone call, kids/wife/gf/parent, drink refill, pizza guy, etc. Also, if you're on a time constraint, it is better to do something solo where you're in control rather than in a group setting where you rely on X amount of other players. Not to sound like a jerk, but i shouldn't be responsible to meet your scheduling demands.
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#48 Sep 06 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
In XI, while you were dropped into battle after finishing a CS, you had a minute or so to actually engage after the first person dropped out of CS before you were forced to engage. (By forced, it usually meant an NPC charged on ahead of you.) If someone just started fighting while everyone else was in the CS, that was their problem. (Repeat runners also got the option to flat out skip the cutscene for some battles.)

Is that not the case in XIV? Because if it is not, then it is a massive oversight and ought to be fixed.

If it is the case, folks need better communication. "In CS" is all it takes to let people know you're not quite free to fight yet.


Ha, thing is, the game TELLS you who is in a cutscene on the party window, so there's no excuse.
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#49 Sep 06 2013 at 1:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
Sounds to me like the real issue is the dungeon timer continues to count down while a player is in a cutscene. From what I've seen, the game already knows when you are viewing a cutscene (the little video icon appears above them). So it shouldn't be that bad for them to just pause the timer while anyone is watching a cutscene. When doing the first three dungeons over and over during phase 3, I was never mad at anyone for watching them, I just sat and waited for them to finish even though I personally skipped them after the first time.


It is not bad at all in any other dungeons other than Clastrum Meridianum and Praetorium. Assuming that everyone is pressing the X button as soon as they possibly can, the total cs time is nearly a quarter of the overall time you are allowed in the dungeon (I would be interested in an exact measurement).
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#50 Sep 06 2013 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:

We've got 200 and most arent up there yet. That's ok. I'll stick with ZAM though, they are a good bunch. Nice group of people looking to help out. I'm not going to rush them to keep up with my schedule, just as I would not expect them to rush me to keep up with theirs. I'm not going to run off to join elitists because that is not what I am about. But I also dont want to spend 8 hours trying to beat a mission that all I want to do is complete once.
Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:55pm by Valkayree


I'm trying to be understanding, but now your just not making sense. You commented to me previously that you have RL pulling you away from the game and don't feel you should have to wait around for me to do something i could do later, but here you say your not rushing people to keep up with your schedule, please make up your mind.

Valkayree wrote:

And I'm super happy that you are happy with your healing job, here, take one of these. Smiley: cookie I live, breathe and sleep black mage and blue mage, and I think it is fairly upsetting that four plus classes are grouped into the term "dps". I think a black mage is not only dd, it is crowd control, and there should be one in every party.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:55pm by Valkayree


Don't pull that cookie crap with me. Yes I'm happy with my job, just because your not happy with yours, and crying that SE put your baby into DPS is stupid. We all knew ahead of time that SE made 3 roles for this game, TANK, DPS, HEALER. Now, if enough people complain enough that there is not enough diversity or whatever you want to call it so your DPS isn't labeled a DPS then SE may make changes to the DF or party make-up.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 3:28pm by RyanSquires
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#51 Sep 06 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
Catwho wrote:
In XI, while you were dropped into battle after finishing a CS, you had a minute or so to actually engage after the first person dropped out of CS before you were forced to engage. (By forced, it usually meant an NPC charged on ahead of you.) If someone just started fighting while everyone else was in the CS, that was their problem. (Repeat runners also got the option to flat out skip the cutscene for some battles.)

Is that not the case in XIV? Because if it is not, then it is a massive oversight and ought to be fixed.

If it is the case, folks need better communication. "In CS" is all it takes to let people know you're not quite free to fight yet.


Ha, thing is, the game TELLS you who is in a cutscene on the party window, so there's no excuse.


And at least on two instances, my squishy black mage has literally been dropped out of a cutscene directly into battle (and it wasn't because someone in the party aggroed, this literally dropped you right in).
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