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so according to SEFollow

#1 Sep 06 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Default
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elemental weakness isnt in this game becaise it was too complex/they wanted to keep it simple as to not have ppl accidentally do something like cast fire on Ifrit and heal him?

first off you can always make it so that casting fire on a fire mob doesnt heal them but instead does litte to no damage (i mean how many monsters in FFXI got healed when attacked with their element? very few) secondly too complex? Umm 6 year olds know water beats fire, lightning beats water etc etc I mean lost of kids play Pokemon and it has those very attributes .. soo elemental weaknesses is too complex for FFXIV but it exists in a kids game (pokemon) so theyre saying the ppl who play FFXIV have lesser minds than a kid playing Pokemon? really? Thats about as "insulting" as the US version of Super Mario 2 we were given because the JPs though the REAL mario 2 would be too hard for us lol.
#2 Sep 06 2013 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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I with you i hope they add it in, it be a cool materia option too i feel.
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#3 Sep 06 2013 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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I think when they said they want to distant themselves from FFXI as much as possible, they were taking it a bit too far.
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#4 Sep 06 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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You're leaving out a lot of SE's other points behind the removal of elemental weaknesses.

The horse was beaten to death during beta, but to humor you:

Part of it is not having to give casting classes additional skills (read: elemental spells) to not only have to balance, but also leave the player with additional hotbars just to fit them all in.

Part of it is SE trying to ensure that jobs don't get locked out of content by the player base (i.e. No CNJ allowed on Dungeon A because the mobs are all strong to both Earth and Wind; or DRG is weak to Water, no invites on Dungeon B!).

You're making it sound like SE thinks we're too dumb to handle it, which is NOT the case. You seem to take things very personally, which based on the fact that you still play a game that is clearly hurting you makes you a *********?


Side bar: inputting "lol drg" (without the space) into the post autocorrects itself to "I'm a moron" ...interesting.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:45pm by diiablo
#5 Sep 06 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think they are talking about the concept of elemental weaknesses but the complicatedness of gearing for specific things. Then you would have to have a gear set when fighting Ifrit, a different one for Titan, etc.

Just look at the BLM in XI, what were the merits you put in your BLM? When I quit it was basically this..................



When I'm trying to decide what spell to cast I look at the mobs' weaknesses, check the day, check the weather and then calmly cast Thunder IV.
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#6 Sep 06 2013 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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diiablo wrote:
You're leaving out a lot of SE's other points behind the removal of elemental weaknesses.

The horse was beaten to death during beta, but to humor you:

Part of it is not having to give casting classes additional skills (read: elemental spells) to not only have to balance, but also leave the player with additional hotbars just to fit them all in.

Part of it is SE trying to ensure that jobs don't get locked out of content by the player base (i.e. No CNJ allowed on Dungeon A because the mobs are all strong to both Earth and Wind).

You're making it sound like SE thinks we're too dumb to handle it, which is NOT the case. You seem to take things very personally, which based on the fact that you still play a game that is clearly hurting you makes you a *********?

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:40pm by diiablo

Well, since he does consider FFXI to be the pinnacle of MMO greatness, I would say this is spot on.
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#7 Sep 06 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
said stuff about SE saying stuff

You probably should provide a link to what SE supposedly said. Without that, I'm just going to assume that you're twisting their words and leaving out important parts of what they said to suit your own argument.
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#8 Sep 06 2013 at 11:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Only posting to comment that anyone that says Pokemon is a kids' game has clearly never witnessed the competitive scene.

...And that's all I have to say about that.
#9 Sep 06 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Default
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Arcari wrote:
Only posting to comment that anyone that says Pokemon is a kids' game has clearly never witnessed the competitive scene.

...And that's all I have to say about that.



most of its fan/user base is children i never said ONLY children play it but that IS the target audience.. heck im 30 and i play it but that doesnt change the fact that its meant to appeal to children
#10 Sep 06 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Default
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diiablo wrote:
You seem to take things very personally, which based on the fact that you still play a game that is clearly hurting you makes you a *********?




[laying a game thats hurting me? Thats interesting. Just because you like a game doesnt mean you have to think its perfect/flawless in every way. Id easily give the game an 8/10 and enjoying it thoroughly.. Im definitely not "forcing" myself to play. Sure i dont like a few of the design choices and i still think FFXI is (well WAS better.. i cant speak on FFXIs current state as i havent played it wince 2008) I mean ive literally got 20 other PS3 games i havent even touched yet but Im too busy playing this to touch them. So if i wasnt having fun those other games surely wouldnt be getting neglected
#11 Sep 06 2013 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Does sadden me greatly that the elemental wheel has been left off this game. I thought the elemental weakness system in FFXI was a great extra layer of strat above just having the triology fighting mobs.

But looking at the spell list for mages, I can see why. Fighting Ifrit for instance... THM is at a loss given Blizz is a lower dmg spell than Fire and not having the other elements at his/her disposal does put them at a slight disadvantage. I don't like it, but I can understand.
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#12 Sep 06 2013 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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In XI this meant you had to have a separate staff, belt, and off hand (grip) for each element. That was 24 pieces of gear alone just to account for elemental variables if you wanted maximum damage. By long player demanded they finally added a "universal" staff (I use the HQ Chatoyant now) that had most of the attributes of the individual elemental staves, although not all of them. I still have to lug around a Terra's staff to this day because the -20% PDT didn't carry over to the rainbow pole versions.

I'm much happier with the XIV version of it, if only from an "ugh my inventory space!" perspective.
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#13 Sep 06 2013 at 1:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
In XI this meant you had to have a separate staff, belt, and off hand (grip) for each element. That was 24 pieces of gear alone just to account for elemental variables if you wanted maximum damage.
It also required taking the weather effects into account, and to cast Thunder anyway.
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#14 Sep 06 2013 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
playing a game thats hurting me? Thats interesting. Just because you like a game doesnt mean you have to think its perfect/flawless in every way. Id easily give the game an 8/10 and enjoying it thoroughly.. Im definitely not "forcing" myself to play. Sure i dont like a few of the design choices and i still think FFXI is (well WAS better.. i cant speak on FFXIs current state as i havent played it wince 2008) I mean ive literally got 20 other PS3 games i havent even touched yet but Im too busy playing this to touch them. So if i wasnt having fun those other games surely wouldnt be getting neglected


Then I'm confused. If you like the game, why are you so quick to be critical of it, rather then do a little research first? You cite a minor reason for the developers decision to remove the elemental wheel (casting fire on Ifrit by mistake). Had you taken the time to actually look into it, you'd have found the other reasons I presented. Your OP makes it sound like SE thinks we're all dumb, and they removed the Elemental Wheel because of it, thereby insulting your and our intelligences. That's so clearly NOT the case, I can only assume you must've taken it personally, and thus were "hurt" by the game. And mind you, this isn't the first time you've done this in one of your threads.

You don't have to be blown away by the game, but at least get your facts straight before suggesting SE's motives.

lolgaxe wrote:
Catwho wrote:
In XI this meant you had to have a separate staff, belt, and off hand (grip) for each element. That was 24 pieces of gear alone just to account for elemental variables if you wanted maximum damage.
It also required taking the weather effects into account, and to cast Thunder anyway.


So true.
#15 Sep 06 2013 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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diiablo wrote:

Part of it is not having to give casting classes additional skills (read: elemental spells) to not only have to balance, but also leave the player with additional hotbars just to fit them all in.


Tell that to us BLM's from FFXI who made it work with the crappy system provided to us - toting entire bags full of different sets of gear and macro's to go with each.

Just my two cents on that part there but it is nice to not have to have so much gear for each fight.


Edited, Sep 6th 2013 4:43pm by Taisae
#16 Sep 06 2013 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Thats about as "insulting" as the US version of Super Mario 2 we were given because the JPs though the REAL mario 2 would be too hard for us lol.


SMB 2 was one of my favorite games as a kid. I now have a master's degree in science.
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#17 Sep 06 2013 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Thats about as "insulting" as the US version of Super Mario 2 we were given because the JPs though the REAL mario 2 would be too hard for us lol.


SMB 2 was one of my favorite games as a kid. I now have a master's degree in science.


Same and I'm now a system administrator and one of my best friends I used to play with is a metal head living in mom's basement trying to make a living with a going no where band.

Your point is moot.
#18 Sep 06 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Taisae wrote:
diiablo wrote:

Part of it is not having to give casting classes additional skills (read: elemental spells) to not only have to balance, but also leave the player with additional hotbars just to fit them all in.



Tell that to us BLM's from FFXI who made it work with the crappy system provided to us - toting entire bags full of different sets of gear and macro's to go with each.

Just my two cents on that part there.


I am one of those BLMs from XI. I always thought it was strange changing 50 times in battle, but I loved the extra damage. It worked for XI, given the game they designed then. I would absolutely despise it in XIV.
#19 Sep 06 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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If it was earth weather on Earthsday and an earth based mob, you'd cast Blizzard IV instead.

Or maybe Thunder IV if you were feeling particularly cocky about your macc.
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#20 Sep 06 2013 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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Seraphaniim wrote:
diiablo wrote:
You're leaving out a lot of SE's other points behind the removal of elemental weaknesses.

The horse was beaten to death during beta, but to humor you:

Part of it is not having to give casting classes additional skills (read: elemental spells) to not only have to balance, but also leave the player with additional hotbars just to fit them all in.

Part of it is SE trying to ensure that jobs don't get locked out of content by the player base (i.e. No CNJ allowed on Dungeon A because the mobs are all strong to both Earth and Wind).

You're making it sound like SE thinks we're too dumb to handle it, which is NOT the case. You seem to take things very personally, which based on the fact that you still play a game that is clearly hurting you makes you a *********?

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:40pm by diiablo

Well, since he does consider FFXI to be the pinnacle of MMO greatness, I would say this is spot on.


I couldnt have said it better myself. FFXI had charm, but was a rotten mess of gameplay elements and balance. It was in no way an example of what games, mmos included, should strive to be.
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#21 Sep 06 2013 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
If it was earth weather on Earthsday and an earth based mob, you'd cast Blizzard IV instead.

Or maybe Thunder IV if you were feeling particularly cocky about your macc.


*Taisae casts the line*

Wasn't it water for earth (ya know cause it makes it soggy) and ice for fire (to make it colder)?

*You feel something tug on the line*
#22 Sep 06 2013 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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reptiletim wrote:
FFXI had charm the best storyline in any MMO, but was a rotten mess of gameplay elements and balance. It was in no way an example of what games, mmos included, should strive to be.


Until STWOR came out, FFXI was more or less the only true story based MMO out there. I tried WoW and it was.... not the same. Some games got part of it right. Most of the fantasy MMO games have the epic world lore and immersive gameplay down pat, but FFXI was the only one that added a genuine narrative to it as well, complete with cutscenes and long series of quests that drove the story. You didn't just become a knight to protect the kingdom of San'Doria, you found yourself intricately involved with the political turmoil of the royal family and probably cheering for one of the three siblings over the other. (Claidie, I love you, you're a badass girl, but Trion is the best heir to the throne of all time!)

You learned that the reason the Quadav attacked the miners in Palborough was because the miners had accidentally hit one of their egg nests... and they were protecting their young. You learned that the antagomism between the Tarutaru and the Elvaan stretched well over a thousand years because they kept attacking each other, trying to take over each other's respective continents. You learned about the plight of the Galka and the burden of the Talekeeper, which ultimately tied in to the main storyline with the Shadowlord and later on Dynamis, the original core game's primary endgame content.

FFXI was indeed a mess of a game, but it is that deep Final Fantasy storyline that has kept me addicted for nearly a decade, and FFXIV may be the first true game to hit all those sweet story notes again.
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#23 Sep 06 2013 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
reptiletim wrote:
FFXI had charm the best storyline in any MMO, but was a rotten mess of gameplay elements and balance. It was in no way an example of what games, mmos included, should strive to be.


Until STWOR came out, FFXI was more or less the only true story based MMO out there. I tried WoW and it was.... not the same. Some games got part of it right. Most of the fantasy MMO games have the epic world lore and immersive gameplay down pat, but FFXI was the only one that added a genuine narrative to it as well, complete with cutscenes and long series of quests that drove the story. You didn't just become a knight to protect the kingdom of San'Doria, you found yourself intricately involved with the political turmoil of the royal family and probably cheering for one of the three siblings over the other. (Claidie, I love you, you're a badass girl, but Trion is the best heir to the throne of all time!)

You learned that the reason the Quadav attacked the miners in Palborough was because the miners had accidentally hit one of their egg nests... and they were protecting their young. You learned that the antagomism between the Tarutaru and the Elvaan stretched well over a thousand years because they kept attacking each other, trying to take over each other's respective continents. You learned about the plight of the Galka and the burden of the Talekeeper, which ultimately tied in to the main storyline with the Shadowlord and later on Dynamis, the original core game's primary endgame content.

FFXI was indeed a mess of a game, but it is that deep Final Fantasy storyline that has kept me addicted for nearly a decade, and FFXIV may be the first true game to hit all those sweet story notes again.


and THAT is why i think ffxi is the 'holy grail' of mmos. no other mmo come close to it in storytelling department. Im hoping ffxiv will top it

#24 Sep 06 2013 at 3:22 PM Rating: Default
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Catwho wrote:
In XI this meant you had to have a separate staff, belt, and off hand (grip) for each element. That was 24 pieces of gear alone just to account for elemental variables if you wanted maximum damage. By long player demanded they finally added a "universal" staff (I use the HQ Chatoyant now) that had most of the attributes of the individual elemental staves, although not all of them. I still have to lug around a Terra's staff to this day because the -20% PDT didn't carry over to the rainbow pole versions.

I'm much happier with the XIV version of it, if only from an "ugh my inventory space!" perspective.


correct me if im wrong but didnt bahamuts staff also eliminate the need to carry around all those other staves?
#25 Sep 06 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Default
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Valkayree wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Thats about as "insulting" as the US version of Super Mario 2 we were given because the JPs though the REAL mario 2 would be too hard for us lol.


SMB 2 was one of my favorite games as a kid. I now have a master's degree in science.


whats that gotta do with anthing? ppl who liked smb2must not be intelligent? i dont recall saying that
#26 Sep 06 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:


and THAT is why i think ffxi is the 'holy grail' of mmos. no other mmo come close to it in storytelling department. Im hoping ffxiv will top it




You... don't have any particular attachment to your socks, do you?
#27 Sep 06 2013 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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You... don't have any particular attachment to your socks, do you?
Just to one. We're in love, and we're gonna get married some day.
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#28 Sep 06 2013 at 4:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Catwho wrote:
In XI this meant you had to have a separate staff, belt, and off hand (grip) for each element. That was 24 pieces of gear alone just to account for elemental variables if you wanted maximum damage.
It also required taking the weather effects into account, and to cast Thunder anyway.


Me as a young BLM in FFXI:

Me: Hey, I found a Fire Elemental! Obviously, I spam Water on it to kill it fast, right?
Mentor: Actually buddy, stick with Thunder.
Me: Wait, what? How does Thunder > Water on a Fire Elemental?
Mentor: Just trust me on this one...

And that's when I began to learn that in FFXI, if you weren't casting Blizzard or Thunder the majority of the time, you were wrong.
#29 Sep 06 2013 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Catwho wrote:
In XI this meant you had to have a separate staff, belt, and off hand (grip) for each element. That was 24 pieces of gear alone just to account for elemental variables if you wanted maximum damage. By long player demanded they finally added a "universal" staff (I use the HQ Chatoyant now) that had most of the attributes of the individual elemental staves, although not all of them. I still have to lug around a Terra's staff to this day because the -20% PDT didn't carry over to the rainbow pole versions.

I'm much happier with the XIV version of it, if only from an "ugh my inventory space!" perspective.


correct me if im wrong but didnt bahamuts staff also eliminate the need to carry around all those other staves?


Only for summoners.
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#30 Sep 06 2013 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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As a WHM, I just want to be able to cast cure on Wights, and have it deal damage to them. I was surprised to not see that in this game.
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#31 Sep 06 2013 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:


and THAT is why i think ffxi is the 'holy grail' of mmos. no other mmo come close to it in storytelling department. Im hoping ffxiv will top it




You... don't have any particular attachment to your socks, do you?


huh?
#32 Sep 06 2013 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
The only problem I have with a 'lack of elemental weakness' is that Ifrit doesn't take reduced damage from fire. (And situations like that.) I mean... he is elementally aligned with fire...fantasy logic would lead me to believe that he would either have fire resistance/immunity/absorbtion. Same with elementals. It's not that they don't have weaknesses, but it's that they don't have natural resistances... :/
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