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What the **** is wrong with some people?Follow

#1 Sep 06 2013 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I've been running Dzemael Darkhold and for those of you that haven't gotten that far just know it is ridiculously easy for a level 44 dungeon. The single danger in the first section is a regularly occurring aoe effect that can either hit your entire party for 1000+ damage or more like 50 damage depending on whether or not you're standing in the large and incredibly obvious glowing purple area that even gives you a fricking status effect that practically screams "stand here if you want to live".

The last four groups I've taken in here I have had people who claimed to not be on their first time or that they knew what they were doing.

Guess where they all decide to stand when it's time for the aoe?

Now it's one thing if it's just ignorance and they didn't realize where they should have been standing but then when I repeatedly told each group to move 5 feet over to stand in the giant purple glow and stop dying not only did each and every group stay right where they were but as they frantically tried to speed kill all the enemies while being cure bombed by the healer they toss out gems like "shut the **** up" and "**** off ******".

What the **** is wrong with some people? You try to save them time and from wiping on super easy content and their best response is to not simply ignore every single bit of useful information but to do it in the most *** way possible?
#2 Sep 06 2013 at 6:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Welcome to the internet, where common sense is an insult, and insulting people is common sense.
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#3 Sep 06 2013 at 6:31 PM Rating: Excellent
I should copyright that.
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#4 Sep 06 2013 at 6:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Welcome to the internet, where common sense is an insult, and insulting people is common sense.


Now it's my quote, what'cha gonna do now?

I love you State Alchemist. :3

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 8:44pm by StateAlchemist
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#5 Sep 06 2013 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Admin powers...ACTIVATE!
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#6 Sep 06 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Seriously though, OP...I think we have all ran into a few of those people. It sucks every time it happens, and unfortunately when it does, we know it won't be the last time.

... /comfort
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#7 Sep 06 2013 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
I should copyright that.


You really should.
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#8 Sep 06 2013 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know what to print first...

"I survived DF"

Or

"I survived DF with Shinda Usagi" Smiley: laugh

Seriously though, even I've realized to step out of the red carpet at my own measly level.
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#9 Sep 06 2013 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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Part of the problem is that with the duty finder, you will never see those people again unless by random chance. In ffxi you couldnt do activities cross server so you had a reputation to uphold. With how it works, people can get away with anything because theres no consequences. In xi you knew who you wanted to party with, and who you didnt so if you were a douche bag, it reflected in your party invite frequency and event shouting times.

Im not sure what could be done to fix this issue. You could report people, but unless they are really causing you grief, the GM's won't do anything about it.
#10 Sep 06 2013 at 8:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
Part of the problem is that with the duty finder, you will never see those people again unless by random chance. In ffxi you couldnt do activities cross server so you had a reputation to uphold. With how it works, people can get away with anything because theres no consequences. In xi you knew who you wanted to party with, and who you didnt so if you were a douche bag, it reflected in your party invite frequency and event shouting times.

Im not sure what could be done to fix this issue. You could report people, but unless they are really causing you grief, the GM's won't do anything about it.


People who get offended because they're told they're "doing it wrong" isn't really a reportable offense. It would be like Killua trying to report everyone that responds to him. It's life in the Big Easy (looooong lined big easy).

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 10:04pm by ShindaUsagi
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#11 Sep 06 2013 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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ShindaUsagi wrote:
Keysofgaruda wrote:
Part of the problem is that with the duty finder, you will never see those people again unless by random chance. In ffxi you couldnt do activities cross server so you had a reputation to uphold. With how it works, people can get away with anything because theres no consequences. In xi you knew who you wanted to party with, and who you didnt so if you were a douche bag, it reflected in your party invite frequency and event shouting times.

Im not sure what could be done to fix this issue. You could report people, but unless they are really causing you grief, the GM's won't do anything about it.


People who get offended because they're told they're "doing it wrong" isn't really a reportable offense. It would be like Killua trying to report everyone that responds to him. It's life in the Big Easy (looooong lined big easy).

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 10:04pm by ShindaUsagi


Yeah thats what i was saying. There isn't much that can be done. But people do have the wrong attitude when it comes to beig told advice. Maybe its all those wow players, but i rarely met anyone in xi that acted this way when given pointers on how to improve. People usually took what they were told and applied it to what they were doing.

I had a dungeon where the tank was pulling mobs, so i started fighting what he attacked first. Then the blm would sleep the mob, and the paladin would switch targets. It looked loke they were in a skype call since the thm was talking alone. I kept getting ******* at for waking slept mobs and to pay attention, but there was no comunication between me and the party so i could only do what seemed logical at the time (fight the mob being pulled). Tanks really need to get on those number targets, it makes things 3000% more efficient.
#12 Sep 06 2013 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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garethrogue wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Welcome to the internet, where common sense is an insult, and insulting people is common sense.


Now it's my quote, what'cha gonna do now?

I love you State Alchemist. :3

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 8:44pm by StateAlchemist


StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Admin powers...ACTIVATE!


I tried that, but there's no /love emote in XIV, so I think I had to settle for a /salute
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#13 Sep 06 2013 at 8:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's no /wink either. All this wonderful eye animation and that's just damned depressing.
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#14 Sep 06 2013 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Welcome to the internet, where common sense is an insult, and insulting people is common sense.


I love this
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#15 Sep 06 2013 at 9:57 PM Rating: Good
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ShindaUsagi wrote:
Keysofgaruda wrote:
Part of the problem is that with the duty finder, you will never see those people again unless by random chance. In ffxi you couldnt do activities cross server so you had a reputation to uphold. With how it works, people can get away with anything because theres no consequences. In xi you knew who you wanted to party with, and who you didnt so if you were a douche bag, it reflected in your party invite frequency and event shouting times.

Im not sure what could be done to fix this issue. You could report people, but unless they are really causing you grief, the GM's won't do anything about it.


People who get offended because they're told they're "doing it wrong" isn't really a reportable offense. It would be like Killua trying to report everyone that responds to him. It's life in the Big Easy (looooong lined big easy).

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 10:04pm by ShindaUsagi



As lancer so far I totally relate. What REALLY drives me crazy (play on a ps3) are casters that start dropping AOE. EVERYTHING is being attacked! It requires my extra time to make sure I'm on the same page as the tank. Granted, we're talking seconds but still. Tank and DD get all the crap. There are some some serious antsy casters too. Not always but it can ***** up my 'link' with a tank.

Edit* @ keysofgaruda. Sorry, phone isn't playing nice.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 11:59pm by ShindaUsagi
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#16 Sep 06 2013 at 10:21 PM Rating: Good
ShindaUsagi wrote:
ShindaUsagi wrote:
Keysofgaruda wrote:
Part of the problem is that with the duty finder, you will never see those people again unless by random chance. In ffxi you couldnt do activities cross server so you had a reputation to uphold. With how it works, people can get away with anything because theres no consequences. In xi you knew who you wanted to party with, and who you didnt so if you were a douche bag, it reflected in your party invite frequency and event shouting times.

Im not sure what could be done to fix this issue. You could report people, but unless they are really causing you grief, the GM's won't do anything about it.


People who get offended because they're told they're "doing it wrong" isn't really a reportable offense. It would be like Killua trying to report everyone that responds to him. It's life in the Big Easy (looooong lined big easy).

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 10:04pm by ShindaUsagi



As lancer so far I totally relate. What REALLY drives me crazy (play on a ps3) are casters that start dropping AOE. EVERYTHING is being attacked! It requires my extra time to make sure I'm on the same page as the tank. Granted, we're talking seconds but still. Tank and DD get all the crap. There are some some serious antsy casters too. Not always but it can ***** up my 'link' with a tank.

Edit* @ keysofgaruda. Sorry, phone isn't playing nice.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 11:59pm by ShindaUsagi


^ this. As a fellow LNC it is irritating as all **** when the AOEs start going off. I was in Copperbell once when this was happening and asked the tank to mark and he said "Why? Just pay attention." DF is definitely a mixed bag. The best I've gotten though has been great. The entirety of our party chat was "Everyone know what to do? Good, let's go." and we ran like clockwork. The worst was...well, it was really bad.
#17 Sep 06 2013 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
^ this. As a fellow LNC it is irritating as all **** when the AOEs start going off. I was in Copperbell once when this was happening and asked the tank to mark and he said "Why? Just pay attention." DF is definitely a mixed bag. The best I've gotten though has been great. The entirety of our party chat was "Everyone know what to do? Good, let's go." and we ran like clockwork. The worst was...well, it was really bad.


I mean... ok... I can watch my threat, that's fine. But all you get with that is split dps. Mobs dying one at a time quickly is better than all the mobs dying at the same time slowly.
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#18 Sep 06 2013 at 11:18 PM Rating: Default
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Blame yourself for doing PUGs...
#19 Sep 06 2013 at 11:55 PM Rating: Good
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ShindaUsagi wrote:


As lancer so far I totally relate. What REALLY drives me crazy (play on a ps3) are casters that start dropping AOE. EVERYTHING is being attacked! It requires my extra time to make sure I'm on the same page as the tank. Granted, we're talking seconds but still. Tank and DD get all the crap. There are some some serious antsy casters too. Not always but it can ***** up my 'link' with a tank.


I thought about this problem and came up with many conclusions. I don't think blaming it on the DD is the right answer. I blame it on the lack of communication. Either I see zero communication in my parties or I get the jerk who ******* how bad their last few groups sucked and only by listening to them will you be victorious. I really believe good communication is the key. I don't blame BLM's that don't sleep targets because most people including the tank wake it up anyway. There is a long list of grievances and I don't think it's fair to put blame on one group. Frankly, I don't think anyone in a PUG knows how to play as a team yet.


Edited, Sep 7th 2013 12:57am by ShadowedgeFFXI
#20 Sep 06 2013 at 11:57 PM Rating: Default
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Mopdaddy wrote:
Blame yourself for doing PUGs...

Underrated statement.
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#21 Sep 07 2013 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe you should clearly explain what to do in the beginning, regardless if they say it's their firs time or not, and you wouldn't have this problem.

Also, for a PUG dungeon, it's medium difficulty. It's the first dungeon where the difficulty ramps up and as a result, you get better gear out of it and tomes to boot.

Only time I've had a PUG group quit on me in DH is when another BLM in my group lost the roll on the first boss' bikini item. And of course she was there with friends (who tried to roll against me) but that didn't end up too well for them, either.
#22 Sep 07 2013 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Welcome to the internet, where common sense is an insult, and insulting people is common sense©.


Fixed that for you. :)
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#23 Sep 07 2013 at 4:21 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Welcome to the internet, where common sense is an insult, and insulting people is common sense.


That was brilliant! I shed a small tear.
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#24 Sep 07 2013 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you're a healer, just 'miss' a heal or two and they'll get the message.
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#25 Sep 07 2013 at 7:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I ran into this on Garuda. I had one party that were doing it for the first time and we died 10 times and finally people left. The next group I was same level of knowledge about the fight and completed it on the first try. I think the people in the second run were better equipped and did more DPS. That was the whole difference.
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#26 Sep 07 2013 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good
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PlanckZero wrote:
I've been running Dzemael Darkhold and for those of you that haven't gotten that far just know it is ridiculously easy for a level 44 dungeon. The single danger in the first section is a regularly occurring aoe effect that can either hit your entire party for 1000+ damage or more like 50 damage depending on whether or not you're standing in the large and incredibly obvious glowing purple area that even gives you a fricking status effect that practically screams "stand here if you want to live".

The last four groups I've taken in here I have had people who claimed to not be on their first time or that they knew what they were doing.

Guess where they all decide to stand when it's time for the aoe?

Now it's one thing if it's just ignorance and they didn't realize where they should have been standing but then when I repeatedly told each group to move 5 feet over to stand in the giant purple glow and stop dying not only did each and every group stay right where they were but as they frantically tried to speed kill all the enemies while being cure bombed by the healer they toss out gems like "shut the **** up" and "**** off ******".

What the **** is wrong with some people? You try to save them time and from wiping on super easy content and their best response is to not simply ignore every single bit of useful information but to do it in the most *** way possible?



I have not done this one yet but maybe you are just telling them wrong and they didn't understand... Reading what is above you told them what to do when the aoe came but you didnt tell them when or where it would be other than the first part. First part could mean allot.. Just because you understand what you are saying does not mean everyone does.

Problem I have found with most dungeons is everyone is in a hurry... I don't even get protect up and everyone is running.... They give plenty of time I do not know what the rush is.... Other thing is most don't even read the chat box, some are so focused on what they are doing.

What I hate is DD's that get out of curing range .. MY job is the keep he tank alive, I stay in range of the tank, I am not going to come looking for you too throw a cure on you.. This mainly happens with blm/archers/smn and other jobs that can hit from a distance. You need a cure run too me not the other way...



Edited, Sep 7th 2013 10:27am by Nashred
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#27 Sep 07 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Nashred wrote:
PlanckZero wrote:
I've been running Dzemael Darkhold and for those of you that haven't gotten that far just know it is ridiculously easy for a level 44 dungeon. The single danger in the first section is a regularly occurring aoe effect that can either hit your entire party for 1000+ damage or more like 50 damage depending on whether or not you're standing in the large and incredibly obvious glowing purple area that even gives you a fricking status effect that practically screams "stand here if you want to live".

The last four groups I've taken in here I have had people who claimed to not be on their first time or that they knew what they were doing.

Guess where they all decide to stand when it's time for the aoe?

Now it's one thing if it's just ignorance and they didn't realize where they should have been standing but then when I repeatedly told each group to move 5 feet over to stand in the giant purple glow and stop dying not only did each and every group stay right where they were but as they frantically tried to speed kill all the enemies while being cure bombed by the healer they toss out gems like "shut the **** up" and "**** off ******".

What the **** is wrong with some people? You try to save them time and from wiping on super easy content and their best response is to not simply ignore every single bit of useful information but to do it in the most *** way possible?



I have not done this one yet but maybe you are just telling them wrong and they didn't understand... Reading what is above you told them what to do when the aoe came but you didnt tell them when or where it would be other than the first part. First part could mean allot.. Just because you understand what you are saying does not mean everyone does.

Problem I have found with most dungeons is everyone is in a hurry... I don't even get protect up and everyone is running.... They give plenty of time I do not know what the rush is.... Other thing is most don't even read the chat box, some are so focused on what they are doing.

What I hate is DD's that get out of curing range .. MY job is the keep he tank alive, I stay in range of the tank, I am not going to come looking for you too throw a cure on you.. This mainly happens with blm/archers/smn and other jobs that can hit from a distance. You need a cure run too me not the other way...



Edited, Sep 7th 2013 10:27am by Nashred

would love it if dd's ran to me for heals so i could medica II + regen to heal them and give them 2xregen
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#28 Sep 07 2013 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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You REALLY don't want to go into Amdapor Keep right now then...

3 out of every 5 runs is filled with some princess white mage who will leave the second the run takes more than 12 minutes, or if they don't approve of your gear, or if they, for a second, think you are not a professional Keep Runner.

For now, I've sworn off the duty finder. It takes the best feature of FFIXIV: The non-anonymity of your character, away. This gives way to bad attitudes and flaming because, ****, after this run they go back to their server and never have to see you again!

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#29 Sep 07 2013 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
I could care less what people are wearing as long as we get the job done.
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#30 Sep 07 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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A Whitemage's trade is in Death.

We're the first to blame if there isn't an obviously bad tank, and between the tunnel vision of the Status bars, and the dodging of AOE, it's a full plate indeed.

There is a lot of joy in a first time run, discovery is an often overlooked part of the process in the face of seeking the reward. ( that 1000 mile journey thing)

The problem the "professional" runners have, if they are so very "elite" they should have already formed themselves a static group and kept to themselves. By lowering themselves to using the Duty finder as a speed dating service, they detract from the same right to enjoyment of the game that the first time player deserves.

Not that you should coddle a BAD new player, but if they can't take polite advice in the face of obvious need, sometimes there is just no hope for the group.

Yesterday had a 3 FC + Pickup Tank in the same instance ( stupid rank challenge) The tank had done it once before, we were all new otherwise. Consummate professional, marked the mobs to help me keep my sleeps easily targeted before Stoneskin wore off. He even flagged himself with a giant triangle for easy locating.

On the AOE thing... as a PS3 player, If you aren't one of those idiots who just takes it on the chin, there are times when you can be half a screen out of the AOE and it still nails you every time. Cancel all the casts you want. It does nothing.

Then you come back 2 hours later and the boss has become a mewling infant, trying to swing a baseball bat at a butterfly.

It drives me nuts, I even recruited my kids to shout out every time they saw an AOE, but it is a real problem.

Any "princess" whitemage who can't take gutting out a nightmare run isn't worth their salt, even without Reraise.

Our Trade is in Death, and the markets are booming.

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#31 Sep 08 2013 at 12:08 AM Rating: Good
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
I could care less what people are wearing as long as we get the job done.


This +1000. I could care less what you have gear wise if you know your sh%t.
#32 Sep 08 2013 at 1:45 AM Rating: Good
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
I could care less what people are wearing as long as we get the job done.


This +1000. I could care less what you have gear wise if you know your sh%t.


Oh I can't wait till you two run Amdapor Keep and eat your words, you can't do the first boss without a proper lvl 50 weapon, and the 2nd probably needs at least Ifrit Hard mode gear because it's basically a DPS check. So lots of gear examining there, otherwise not worth your time since you'll hit the 2nd boss the wall and just never get past it. It's the hardest dungeon for a reason.

Not that I make a big deal about it, I take them up to the boss and give it a couple tries, usually they realize it themselves they are under-geared, take a bow and leave, once in a while a DPS joins to replace them. I do agree with OP that bickering is ridiculous though.

Edited, Sep 8th 2013 5:05am by SyniteonReflux
#33 Sep 08 2013 at 3:06 AM Rating: Excellent
SyniteonReflux wrote:
SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
I could care less what people are wearing as long as we get the job done.


This +1000. I could care less what you have gear wise if you know your sh%t.


Oh I can't wait till you two run Amdapor Keep and eat your words, you can't do the first boss without a proper lvl 50 weapon, and the 2nd probably needs at least Ifrit Hard mode gear because it's basically a DPS check. So lots of gear examining there, otherwise not worth your time since you'll hit the 2nd boss the wall and just never get past it. It's the hardest dungeon for a reason.

Not that I make a big deal about it, I take them up to the boss and give it a couple tries, usually they realize it themselves they are under-geared, take a bow and leave, once in a while a DPS joins to replace them. I do agree with OP that bickering is ridiculous though.

Edited, Sep 8th 2013 5:05am by SyniteonReflux


Yeah, maybe with Duty Finder. But then again Duty Finder is the reason I haven't beaten Aurum Vale too...
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#34 Sep 08 2013 at 3:41 AM Rating: Default
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I've found the best luck to beat AK is actually with the duty finder for now. Most of the legacy players (or upper level NA players) run it and have taught me a few things. The 2nd boss is quite an interesting DPS check so gear definitely does matter!

However, I think player skill matters as well. I attempted AK today with 3 FC mates and a pick up tank. We ran through the trash and after a few times, were able to get to the first boss. First boss went down very easily. We ran to the 2nd boss, skipping trash yet again. The 2nd boss destroyed us about 8 times before we gave up. We eventually had to clear all the trash in the dungeon to build up our limit gauge for me to use on the bees.

Now, I had been content with our progress up till this point. When your group starts to wipe over and over, it's time to look deeper. Thanks to FFXIV App, parses are readily available. So i look at mine only to see my BRD FC mate doing slightly (1000 more) DPS than the tank. So it looked something like PLD tank (20k), BRD (20k), BLM (60k).

This BRD in my FC was adequately geared (better than me, in fact) so he should have had no problem dishing out the same amount of DPS. But every single time we attempted it, he barely pulled above the tank.

Granted, this is the first dungeon I've come across with a check like this one and, like mentioned above, it's the hardest for a reason. I did it the other day with the same setup (PLD, BRD, BLM, SCH) and we did just fine. BRD out DPSed me easily. The last boss is super fun. I screwed up quite a bit but they were nice enough to explain all the mechanics/what I was doing wrong. I hope to find more patient players like them.

Edited, Sep 8th 2013 5:42am by HitomeOfBismarck
#35 Sep 08 2013 at 4:10 AM Rating: Default
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I have to agree with what you have all said here. I know I've had my fair share of /fail runs. My solution, based on past experience, was to get my wife involved. She plays healer, and I tank. This works out exceptionally well since it puts both of us in control. I first ask if anyone has not done the dungeon, then give direction if need be. Lastly, I tell dps to kill mobs in order marked. 99% of our runs go smooth, but as soon as one of the dps starts getting antsy and pulling over me, or starts losing focus and begin attacking mobs willy nilly, it's an automatic boot with a /p "have fun waiting in queue. Your impatience and lack of direction has wasted your own time."
In pops new dps, and we continue on.

Edited, Sep 8th 2013 6:13am by SistinasAria
#36 Sep 08 2013 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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SistinasAria wrote:
I have to agree with what you have all said here. I know I've had my fair share of /fail runs. My solution, based on past experience, was to get my wife involved. She plays healer, and I tank. This works out exceptionally well since it puts both of us in control. I first ask if anyone has not done the dungeon, then give direction if need be. Lastly, I tell dps to kill mobs in order marked. 99% of our runs go smooth, but as soon as one of the dps starts getting antsy and pulling over me, or starts losing focus and begin attacking mobs willy nilly, it's an automatic boot with a /p "have fun waiting in queue. Your impatience and lack of direction has wasted your own time."
In pops new dps, and we continue on.

Edited, Sep 8th 2013 6:13am by SistinasAria


So your mantra is: "if you make a mistake, prepare to get booted because we have majority by default".

Classy.
#37 Sep 08 2013 at 7:12 AM Rating: Default
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
SistinasAria wrote:
I have to agree with what you have all said here. I know I've had my fair share of /fail runs. My solution, based on past experience, was to get my wife involved. She plays healer, and I tank. This works out exceptionally well since it puts both of us in control. I first ask if anyone has not done the dungeon, then give direction if need be. Lastly, I tell dps to kill mobs in order marked. 99% of our runs go smooth, but as soon as one of the dps starts getting antsy and pulling over me, or starts losing focus and begin attacking mobs willy nilly, it's an automatic boot with a /p "have fun waiting in queue. Your impatience and lack of direction has wasted your own time."
In pops new dps, and we continue on.

Edited, Sep 8th 2013 6:13am by SistinasAria


So your mantra is: "if you make a mistake, prepare to get booted because we have majority by default".

Classy.


No, they give directions and mark the mobs. Just like was stated in the post that I bolded for you. Sure, mistakes happen. But realistically, I doubt the person is unable to identify the numbers 1, 2, and 3. More likely they don't care enough to be a team player and are just doing their own thing. That's grounds for booting in my book too. I'd give a warning, but why waste extra time on a task a six year old should be able to handle.
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#38 Sep 08 2013 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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SyniteonReflux wrote:
SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
I could care less what people are wearing as long as we get the job done.


This +1000. I could care less what you have gear wise if you know your sh%t.


Oh I can't wait till you two run Amdapor Keep and eat your words, you can't do the first boss without a proper lvl 50 weapon, and the 2nd probably needs at least Ifrit Hard mode gear because it's basically a DPS check. So lots of gear examining there, otherwise not worth your time since you'll hit the 2nd boss the wall and just never get past it. It's the hardest dungeon for a reason.

Not that I make a big deal about it, I take them up to the boss and give it a couple tries, usually they realize it themselves they are under-geared, take a bow and leave, once in a while a DPS joins to replace them. I do agree with OP that bickering is ridiculous though.

Edited, Sep 8th 2013 5:05am by SyniteonReflux


You can do it with GC weapons but need some DL gear
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#39 Sep 08 2013 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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OtosanOokami wrote:
A Whitemage's trade is in Death.

We're the first to blame if there isn't an obviously bad tank, and between the tunnel vision of the Status bars, and the dodging of AOE, it's a full plate indeed.

There is a lot of joy in a first time run, discovery is an often overlooked part of the process in the face of seeking the reward. ( that 1000 mile journey thing)

The problem the "professional" runners have, if they are so very "elite" they should have already formed themselves a static group and kept to themselves. By lowering themselves to using the Duty finder as a speed dating service, they detract from the same right to enjoyment of the game that the first time player deserves.

Not that you should coddle a BAD new player, but if they can't take polite advice in the face of obvious need, sometimes there is just no hope for the group.

Yesterday had a 3 FC + Pickup Tank in the same instance ( stupid rank challenge) The tank had done it once before, we were all new otherwise. Consummate professional, marked the mobs to help me keep my sleeps easily targeted before Stoneskin wore off. He even flagged himself with a giant triangle for easy locating.

On the AOE thing... as a PS3 player, If you aren't one of those idiots who just takes it on the chin, there are times when you can be half a screen out of the AOE and it still nails you every time. Cancel all the casts you want. It does nothing.

Then you come back 2 hours later and the boss has become a mewling infant, trying to swing a baseball bat at a butterfly.

It drives me nuts, I even recruited my kids to shout out every time they saw an AOE, but it is a real problem.

Any "princess" whitemage who can't take gutting out a nightmare run isn't worth their salt, even without Reraise.

Our Trade is in Death, and the markets are booming.




This +1000

I had no idea until I played a healing class a few times just how difficult it was. I thought tanking was the hardest part of the game. Healing is like playing an accounting simulation game where the spreadsheet is constantly moving and your 3 bosses are all yelling at you at the same time to get your job done better / faster.
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#40 Sep 08 2013 at 9:01 PM Rating: Decent
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SyniteonReflux wrote:
SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
I could care less what people are wearing as long as we get the job done.


This +1000. I could care less what you have gear wise if you know your sh%t.


Oh I can't wait till you two run Amdapor Keep and eat your words, you can't do the first boss without a proper lvl 50 weapon, and the 2nd probably needs at least Ifrit Hard mode gear because it's basically a DPS check. So lots of gear examining there, otherwise not worth your time since you'll hit the 2nd boss the wall and just never get past it. It's the hardest dungeon for a reason.

Not that I make a big deal about it, I take them up to the boss and give it a couple tries, usually they realize it themselves they are under-geared, take a bow and leave, once in a while a DPS joins to replace them. I do agree with OP that bickering is ridiculous though.


I don't really understand the concerns over gear checks, there are a great variety of alternative in game.

You can earn some very powerful Grand Company gears for almost free. My LS friend lvl SMN/SCH to 50 by running FATE days and nights and she had to spent Seals several times due to capping 50,000 Seals three times.
You can get some very powerful crafted gears. My HQ Obelisk dwarf any Primal weapon and almost/already on par with Relic for DPS purpose.
Then there are of course dungeons dropped stuff for the usual if you want to farm dungeons day in day out.

The Demon Wall certainly does not require at least Primal. There are a lot weapons prior to that can still kill it. Amdapor Keep is not the hardest dungeon, that's Bahamut Coil. It's in farm category, day in day out, gah.
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#41 Sep 08 2013 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
SyniteonReflux wrote:
SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
I could care less what people are wearing as long as we get the job done.


This +1000. I could care less what you have gear wise if you know your sh%t.


Oh I can't wait till you two run Amdapor Keep and eat your words, you can't do the first boss without a proper lvl 50 weapon, and the 2nd probably needs at least Ifrit Hard mode gear because it's basically a DPS check. So lots of gear examining there, otherwise not worth your time since you'll hit the 2nd boss the wall and just never get past it. It's the hardest dungeon for a reason.

Not that I make a big deal about it, I take them up to the boss and give it a couple tries, usually they realize it themselves they are under-geared, take a bow and leave, once in a while a DPS joins to replace them. I do agree with OP that bickering is ridiculous though.


I don't really understand the concerns over gear checks, there are a great variety of alternative in game.

You can earn some very powerful Grand Company gears for almost free. My LS friend lvl SMN/SCH to 50 by running FATE days and nights and she had to spent Seals several times due to capping 50,000 Seals three times.
You can get some very powerful crafted gears. My HQ Obelisk dwarf any Primal weapon and almost/already on par with Relic for DPS purpose.
Then there are of course dungeons dropped stuff for the usual if you want to farm dungeons day in day out.

The Demon Wall certainly does not require at least Primal. There are a lot weapons prior to that can still kill it. Amdapor Keep is not the hardest dungeon, that's Bahamut Coil. It's in farm category, day in day out, gah.


Gear checks are vital to some endgame content, not just in this game. Often the dungeon mechanics will have their own form of gear check regardless.

Simply put you shouldn't expect to clear a raid if you haven't gotten all the required gear from running hard modes. Raids will often have things like AOE's that will kill off people not geared properly, or DPS checks (in Rift there was a bomb you had to kill before it went off, it had serious HP, if your raid wasn't fully geared you wouldn't make it...for example)

Gear checks shouldn't be required, you are right, however far too many people assume that once your at endgame you can do any endgame content without realizing that they need to take it in steps.

With this game im not going to even bother starting hard modes until I have enough tombs to buy a full set...the tombs you get from running lv 40-50 regular mode dungeons. Thing is so many people just do fates to 50...then hop into hard modes and cant figure out whats going wrong...when they just are not properly equipped.
#42 Sep 08 2013 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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I'm talking about gear checks from both sides. I don't see it as taboo, but I certainly don't want "you must clear hard mode before you can try hard mode" kind of stuff. It's neither evil nor good.
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#43 Sep 08 2013 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
I could care less what people are wearing as long as we get the job done.


This +1000. I could care less what you have gear wise if you know your sh%t.

Their are fights called "gear checks" doesn't matter how good you might be you need the gear to put you over that edge.
#44 Sep 09 2013 at 1:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Raelix wrote:
There's no /wink either. All this wonderful eye animation and that's just damned depressing.


My female Highlander winks during the 'blow kiss' animation. :)
#45 Sep 09 2013 at 5:00 AM Rating: Good
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ChaChaJaJa wrote:
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
SistinasAria wrote:
I have to agree with what you have all said here. I know I've had my fair share of /fail runs. My solution, based on past experience, was to get my wife involved. She plays healer, and I tank. This works out exceptionally well since it puts both of us in control. I first ask if anyone has not done the dungeon, then give direction if need be. Lastly, I tell dps to kill mobs in order marked. 99% of our runs go smooth, but as soon as one of the dps starts getting antsy and pulling over me, or starts losing focus and begin attacking mobs willy nilly, it's an automatic boot with a /p "have fun waiting in queue. Your impatience and lack of direction has wasted your own time."
In pops new dps, and we continue on.

Edited, Sep 8th 2013 6:13am by SistinasAria


So your mantra is: "if you make a mistake, prepare to get booted because we have majority by default".

Classy.


No, they give directions and mark the mobs. Just like was stated in the post that I bolded for you. Sure, mistakes happen. But realistically, I doubt the person is unable to identify the numbers 1, 2, and 3. More likely they don't care enough to be a team player and are just doing their own thing. That's grounds for booting in my book too. I'd give a warning, but why waste extra time on a task a six year old should be able to handle.


Here, I bolded this for you too:

Quote:
I have to agree with what you have all said here. I know I've had my fair share of /fail runs. My solution, based on past experience, was to get my wife involved. She plays healer, and I tank. This works out exceptionally well since it puts both of us in control. I first ask if anyone has not done the dungeon, then give direction if need be. Lastly, I tell dps to kill mobs in order marked. 99% of our runs go smooth, but as soon as one of the dps starts getting antsy and pulling over me, or starts losing focus and begin attacking mobs willy nilly, it's an automatic boot with a /p "have fun waiting in queue. Your impatience and lack of direction has wasted your own time."
In pops new dps, and we continue on.


See where he says 'the instant'? Yeah, that implies that making one mistake nets you a boot.

Classic entitled, asshat behavior.

Tanks and healers aren't perfect. Tanks sometimes are slow to mark mobs or mess up the marking order which causes confusion. Many tanks wake my slept mobs just for the **** of it. And many tanks cannot stun worth a ****. Same goes for healers.

Do I go boot them from the party just because they make a mistake and miss a stun on Ifrit's eruption or a bee on demon wall? No. I could just have easily eaten a repel or ran through a radiant plume on accident. Called margin of error.

To be honest, when I've been in groups like the ones of the quoted person, I tend to have a miserable time because the know-it-all tank usually screws up more than he would like to admit. But it's ok for them since they have a 2nd player related to them in the party to shield them from a much needed boot thereby abusing the kick system.

Marking targets is pretty standard practice. No need to insult the DPS by telling them to attack the #1 before the #2. Common sense. It's kind of like telling the tank to provoke, flash, or taunt a mob that is attacking a healer: common sense and something that doesn't need to be stated.

Smooth runs require understanding people that have good people skills. If it's someone's first time, you're probably going to wipe a few times on the harder dungeons but big deal. If the person who is new walks away learning something, then it was a successful dungeon the DF is strengthened as a result.
#46 Sep 09 2013 at 5:32 AM Rating: Good
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Since my comment is getting such detailed scrutiny...learn to comprehend what is written, rather than mearly glossing over the words before injecting yoir biased opinion of the type of player I am. My comment clearly states the following:
1. Directions given
2. Targets marked
3. Understanding before run starts

I make sure people know what to do and when so mistakes aren't made in the first place. Any competent leader can distinguish a mistake from someone ******** around and not following directions. In most cases, this happens about mid way through because they think it's "easy" giving them the right to take it upon themselves to disregard the plan. It's easy because everyone is doing what they should, but they don't take into consideration that getting ahead of the tank or attacking whatever they feel like is putting an unnecessary burden on both the tank and healer. At that time is when they get the boot, not because they made a mistake.
#47 Sep 09 2013 at 7:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think the point is would you boot yourself if you made a mistake? Would you boot your wife? Honestly are you two that perfect?
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#48 Sep 09 2013 at 7:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think he is saying there is a difference between an "oopsie" and general jackassery. An occasional sleep broken? No sweat! Accidentally targeted the wrong enemy? We got this! Ran ahead of the tank once? No problemo! However, the people he is referring to are the ones that feel the need to "lead" us through a dungeon by consistently running ahead of the group and pulling... because they are important and have **** to do! The people that constantly target what-the-****-ever they want and split the DPS, despite clear marks and consistent pleas to engage the same target. He is talking about the clowns that, no matter how often you implore them, they stand in the AOEs over and over again.

These people get the boot, and they deserve it. He isn't talking about a generally competent player that makes a one-off mistake. He is talkin' bout asshats.
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#49 Sep 09 2013 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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jcavaliere wrote:


This +1000

I had no idea until I played a healing class a few times just how difficult it was. I thought tanking was the hardest part of the game. Healing is like playing an accounting simulation game where the spreadsheet is constantly moving and your 3 bosses are all yelling at you at the same time to get your job done better / faster.


I agree with OtosanOokami but I want to say to you with this: Iit doesn't hurt to stand your ground when you know they are in the wrong for trying to lord over you. I implore you healers from this retired healer(ESPECIALLY FROM MY RDM DAYS), do not let people walk all over you. If it helps, I'll be one less melee ANY healer has to be worry about, because I know full well what it is like, and have had my share of putting people in their places when they've tried to lord over me over stupid stuff. This is all the main reason healers are historically in short supply because the emotional stress does not make it worthwhile to play. Without all the BS from nitpicky players, the healing role is a heavily mental one, so it's already taxing on you before the stress from others start.

So I say again, stand your ground, and that doesn't mean make slow descent into PrincessWHM - be prudent, and if you snap then they probably deserved it. The difference between standing up for yourself and PrincessWHM is, you're not abusing your class and demanding DDs and Tanks to match unfair expectations.
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#50 Sep 09 2013 at 11:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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DragonBourne wrote:
Raelix wrote:
There's no /wink either. All this wonderful eye animation and that's just damned depressing.


My female Highlander winks during the 'blow kiss' animation. :)


Wow, I got down rated for this. lol? Either we have a fickle crowd today or I have a secret 'admirer' on these boards. I would change the animation if I could, but you'll have to storm SE yourself, because it's beyond my authority. :|
#51 Sep 09 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwilightSkye wrote:
do not let people walk all over you.


I have left Precisely ONE group now****... I'll gut out a LOT if people are at least TRYING to do their jobs.

The PUG tank ran straight into bosses Unbuffed, with 2 members not even to the line, held no side aggro while waking freshly slept mobs, Marked after engaging (and several casts in), and after repeated polite* requests to not pull mid-buff cast (as it glues all the mobs onto me, forcing immediate curebombing, More sleeps (which would be wasted as they'd be waked shortly after), Wasted MP, resulting in repeated WHM deaths because Shroud of Saints** is a 2 minute ability.

I almost forgot... He would pull, and fight where the Wyvern comes down from the ceiling, getting most of the party repeatedly bathed in fire mid combat. I don't mind a challenge, Cutter's Cry was pure WHM joy, Making the healer's job deliberately twice as hard is not good Mojo.

Pulling another entire group while being told the mages were being chewed on by an unsleepable mob (Stone Vigil Dragon Aevis, those nasty Damage spikers) was the final straw, and I bade a still fairly civil goodbye, stating that "without communication, there is no point in continuing onward"

Later that day, Same 3 FC people, New PUG Marauder tank from Midgardsormr... The tank was a Bon Vivant***... Not worried about plans, or communicating verbally, Even teasing us for worrying about plans... which gave us a bad warning... Until he marked things, Listened to the Person in charge of Sleep (not me for once) kept nearly perfect hate, and didn't eat every AOE on the chin. We get to the Cannon part. he fights the mob where it blocks the cannons with the tornados, we wipe... he listens, fights the mob where we can use the cannons without being interrupted, and we SAIL through to the end like a magic carpet ride.

I'm happy to die, over and over again in service of Education if people are actually TRYING, but if it's obvious that the problem person doesn't give a ****, I'm not in the habit of rewarding narcissism. I'll bring the razor up and cut off my nose to spite the face, even if it's a run that I cannot progress without.

I don't run for loot, I run for the pleasure of the Run. Monopoly money is Monopoly money. Fun is the real reward.

* Polite = "please don't do that" Thats as much of a request as I make, and I'll ask several times before getting annoyed... If you see me stoop to applied profanity to a person, I've already given them several chances. I'm nobody's servant.

** Shroud of Saints = Instant 50% Enmity cut, and Refresh. I don't mind using it if we're pushing hard and my MP is low... That's fun. It's not Crappy Tank Buffer every other pull.

*** http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bon_vivant

**** And upon leaving that instance, stayed in party all day, with the same FC people, until we had the run finished. I do NOT leave people high and dry when they did their jobs.



Edited, Sep 9th 2013 2:17pm by OtosanOokami
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