Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

A big difference from FFXI and some advice to new playersFollow

#1 Sep 07 2013 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
*
131 posts
One thing I noticed during my first couple of weeks playing is that, compared to FFXI, you really don't party very much. During my time in FFXI (though I quit some 6 years ago), I met a lot of people in game and made a lot of friends in game. It was very social, and even at lower levels or just starting out, it was common to spend more than half of your first two weeks playing in parties.

In FFXIV, the social aspect which I enjoyed so much only really started the past couple of days since I joined an FC. Even in fate burn parties, there isn't much chit chat the way I remember there being in a lot of FFXI exp parties. This social aspect is not only, imho, a very enjoyable part of playing an mmo game, but is also critical to advancement in the game without hassle, to getting to know crafters and gatherers with skills compatible with yours, etc.

So I my advice to new players would be to find an FC soon after getting started. Be wary of anything that seems ill-advised, like those FCs which send random spam invites. Talk to some people with FC banners after their names. Do dungeon runs more than once, they're your best bet for being able to meet and evaluate other players. Find some good people and get together. You'll be glad you did!
____________________________
Dusk Sanatore (CNJ, FSH, GSM) @ Cactuar
Dusk D'norte (MRD) @ Kujata
#2 Sep 07 2013 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
I'm more about being a horrible tank, using CAPS LOCK on everything and swearing for no apparent reason. Sure way to make friends and have fun.
____________________________

#3 Sep 07 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,150 posts
I just wish we still had <call> so I could use the whistle ever time I provoke something.
____________________________
FFXIV
Deadpool Xrage (Ultros)
Eriston Xrage (Ultros)

FFXI
Eriston
Siren - 75Bst/75Whm/75Rng (Retired June 2010)


Gone surfin'
#4 Sep 07 2013 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,330 posts
Eriston wrote:
I just wish we still had <call> so I could use the whistle ever time I provoke something.


I thought they were giving us that in an upcoming patch? Not "call" specifically, but something that functioned in a similar manner.
#5 Sep 07 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
**
777 posts
Ravashack wrote:
Eriston wrote:
I just wish we still had <call> so I could use the whistle ever time I provoke something.


I thought they were giving us that in an upcoming patch? Not "call" specifically, but something that functioned in a similar manner.

I won't mind, if they give us a way to control the volume down from EAR SPLITTING SHRILLNESS when you have headphones on.
#6 Sep 07 2013 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
7 posts
I agree with you Dusk. I played FFXI until about 4 years ago and, while I admit it ate a whole lot of my teenage years because it took so long to do anything, I do miss the slower pace if only because of the opportunity to socialize with people.

I remember forming parties and chatting with people while we found members, or while we waited on pulls in a crowded camp. I'm talking about strangers not even LS mates which was so much fun to at least read the conversations people had while you were crafting or partying even if you were not part of the conversation. I met a lot of cool people and even if we did not stay in touch after we disbanded, chatting made the time while in party much more enjoyable.

I like FFXIV very much, specially because I can get more done in less time and have fun. However, it does come at a cost. It saddens me that people seem to be only interested in getting to 50 ASAP and not take the time to even say hi to people when entering dungeons. I am a CNJ and love doing dungeons because I get to do... well what I do, which is heal, but I also do it to play with other people and it makes it better when people realize they are actually playing with other humans instead of an NPC like in the story missions.
____________________________
"Design Is Where Science And Art Break Even"

Lorem Ipsum (Exodus)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2814937/
#7 Sep 07 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
425 posts
I'm kind of used to it. I'm very social but it seems people in MMOs these days aren't very social anymore. So I'll say hi, but I won't say anything else, because 95% of the time, it falls on deaf ears.

And the last three years I played in FFXI, I didn't have any friends. Good bit of them had quit, while others faded away when they got in HNMLS's.

Edited, Sep 7th 2013 3:45pm by TwilightSkye
____________________________
FFXI character: Elathia ::F Tarutaru::87SCH/75RDM/70WHM/54BLM::Cerberus/Ragnarok/Bahamut::1/23/2004 - 3/25/2015 :: Retired
RDM First 75 Job :: RDM Maat victory: March 28, 2008 (1/3) :: San d'Oria R10 Long live King Destin :: Praise be to the late King Ranperre.
FFXIV character: Selene Silverstorm :: F Lalafell :: WAR60/WHM60/BLM60 :: Ragnarok :: 9/2013 -
Patch note archives for FFXIV: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/special/patchnote_log/
#8 Sep 07 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
79 posts
I agree the social part is enjoyable and essential. I do feel that unlike XI in XIV the social aspect has be relegated to FCs ... for now? I try to be as social as I can and help "newbs" learn their roles in dungeons - in a friendly and tolerant manor - not FU NUB L2P GTFO....

Maybe if some of us XI veterans can train the new players we can remake the social community of old!
#9 Sep 07 2013 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
*
68 posts
Ravashack wrote:
Eriston wrote:
I just wish we still had <call> so I could use the whistle ever time I provoke something.


I thought they were giving us that in an upcoming patch? Not "call" specifically, but something that functioned in a similar manner.


They already have calls. You need to be in a Party though.

<se.1> to <se.16>
#10 Sep 07 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
algorithm0r wrote:
Maybe if some of us XI veterans can train the new players we can remake the social community of old!


All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again.
____________________________
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pawkeshup
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/pawkeshup
Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/pawkeshup
Blog: http://pawkeshup.blogspot.com
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#11 Sep 07 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
150 posts
See a lot time ago this is how mmorpgs were. There was slower combat, very long progression where grouping up and farming harder mobs was the best way to do things.

People grouped up, chatted during combat since it wasn't super fast spammy action combat and made friends/enemies based on more than seeing some random guy in global.

Then the mmorpg world opened up to other gamers, gamers who didn't like RPG games or socialization beyond 4chan style chat. They didn't want progression or forced grouping. They wanted endgame and the best gear and they wanted it NOW. Then one certain game came along and appealed right at these people, and in came the non RPG crowd, swelling this games ranks to untold numbers.

Other game makers quickly ditched their games and tried to make a game just like this game only targeting the famous games only obvious weakness, graphics. For the next 5 years+ you would see nothing but a continuing trend of games for sarcastic and angry isolationists, mad that there was this game in the way of them getting the best gear and highest level so they could dominate noobs and feel some self worth.

So now, even a game like FFXIV, which does this all very well, tries to be old school, the bar has been lowered so far that a game like this actually DOES feel old school.

Big problem is that a game that doesn't cater to the ADD crowd wont make billions, which is close to what it costs to make a modern and quality mmorpg these days, at least one that wont get laughed at by the world, skimped on Q&A testing and bug free/polished, and have stunning graphics.

So to make a game with the modern qualities you need to appeal to the ADD crowd.

The ADD crowd likes Fates over group work. Why? Because you don't need to talk, coordinate, or know what you are doing to get that all important gold award (which should mean you did really well, but doesn't) and also a faster trip to endgame without having to read words.


Yeah I think perhaps, at a minimum, making FC mob farming groups viable would be smart, boost that battle cry xp bonus. I think the game already progresses FAR too fast...but its the only way youll get others to participate.
#12 Sep 07 2013 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
12,824 posts
Sigh... No. Other people didn't ruin MMOs. Let's be real.

The reason MMOs moved from long, slow grinds is the time investment that became involved. People who were invested in one world are not likely to jump to a new one if it required a vastly similar grind to simply play catch-up to "get to the good stuff" (IE raiding/endgame). As competition increased, the investment had to decrease to entice those other players to jump ship, with the idea that they really aren't going to need to sink a lot of time in to catchup, and hoping that once they did that the new endgame would cause them to leave their prior game.

The revamped FFXI versus the post-Cataclysm WoW is a great example. FFXI decided to make leveling easier to make it more competitive. The devs finally realized that the long-*** haul to endgame made the game unattractive, as well as the requirement to be in a 6-man party at a time when most people had leveled the jobs they wanted and needed. So they made solo and low-man easier, and eventually the community abused those mechanics to form 18-man alliances to grind faster. They wanted to get to endgame to "the good stuff".

WoW, on the other hand, is largely unchanged as far as attaining level cap. I know my fiancee was still working away at it even up until X|V launched. They have added quests to help with EXP, but really haven't eased up the grind. As such, there is a large amount of leveling fatigue settling in. That's one of the reasons why WoW is bleeding tons of users. People are tired of rolling alts and the long haul to get them max'd just to play a new class, or to replace characters lost to account hacks or to return and catch-up.

It isn't because MMOs decided to cater to other crowds, it's because there are so many more options now. Why would you invest 1-2+ years in a game to reach endgame, when another game is being launched in a few months that offers the same in 6 months of playtime.
____________________________
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pawkeshup
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/pawkeshup
Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/pawkeshup
Blog: http://pawkeshup.blogspot.com
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#13 Sep 07 2013 at 3:24 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
algorithm0r wrote:
Maybe if some of us XI veterans can train the new players we can remake the social community of old!


With the pace of this game, by the time an "XI veteran" managed to train a new player, that player would be closing in on level 50 from solo-quests and silent auto-parties. Seriously, it takes all of a week or two to reach cap -- under such circumstances almost nobody's going to so much as glance at the social teamwork ways of yore. :\
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#14 Sep 07 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
12,824 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
algorithm0r wrote:
Maybe if some of us XI veterans can train the new players we can remake the social community of old!


With the pace of this game, by the time an "XI veteran" managed to train a new player, that player would be closing in on level 50 from solo-quests and silent auto-parties. Seriously, it takes all of a week or two to reach cap -- under such circumstances almost nobody's going to so much as glance at the social teamwork ways of yore. :\


Actually, it's more because you cannot rebuild a community like that. Communities are organically formed based on numerous factors. The rose-coloured glass version of the FFXI community of yore looks so amazing, and in some ways it was, but you have to realize it came about from tons of factors. First, FFXI was a part of the vanguard of new MMO titles. Back then, there were few players in the field, and fewer still were big name studios, and even fewer than that were pinning their flagship name on the front of an MMO. Second, FFXI was left a mystery. The manual spelled out the basic commands, but most of the aspects of the game were left shrouded in mystery. People love mysteries. Look at any ARG (like I<3Bees) to see how fast that will build a community sharing info and theories around it. Then factor in that a lot of the people playing today were younger then, with more free time/no children or family. It was an entirely different environment then.

Today, there are a multitude of MMOs that offer up tons of different experiences, most of them F2P, allowing that younger demographic to play without any cash investment, so FFX|V actually isn't going to capture them necessarily as FFXI may have when there were no true F2P MMOs to speak of. Also factor in that this game wears its info on its sleeve, meaning that you can pretty much see 1 to 1 relationships, making theorycraft relatively easy. I am willing to bet that there will be gear apps aplenty in a few months time, if they don't already exist, offering build possibilities. Pile onto that the shorter leveling time to endgame, and the community has no chance at all to even resemble the old community, as if that could ever happen.

Which is why you can't put Humpty back together again.
____________________________
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pawkeshup
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/pawkeshup
Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/pawkeshup
Blog: http://pawkeshup.blogspot.com
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#15 Sep 07 2013 at 6:27 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
Avatar
*
110 posts
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
algorithm0r wrote:
Maybe if some of us XI veterans can train the new players we can remake the social community of old!


With the pace of this game, by the time an "XI veteran" managed to train a new player, that player would be closing in on level 50 from solo-quests and silent auto-parties. Seriously, it takes all of a week or two to reach cap -- under such circumstances almost nobody's going to so much as glance at the social teamwork ways of yore. :\


Actually, it's more because you cannot rebuild a community like that. Communities are organically formed based on numerous factors. The rose-coloured glass version of the FFXI community of yore looks so amazing, and in some ways it was, but you have to realize it came about from tons of factors. First, FFXI was a part of the vanguard of new MMO titles. Back then, there were few players in the field, and fewer still were big name studios, and even fewer than that were pinning their flagship name on the front of an MMO. Second, FFXI was left a mystery. The manual spelled out the basic commands, but most of the aspects of the game were left shrouded in mystery. People love mysteries. Look at any ARG (like I<3Bees) to see how fast that will build a community sharing info and theories around it. Then factor in that a lot of the people playing today were younger then, with more free time/no children or family. It was an entirely different environment then.

Today, there are a multitude of MMOs that offer up tons of different experiences, most of them F2P, allowing that younger demographic to play without any cash investment, so FFX|V actually isn't going to capture them necessarily as FFXI may have when there were no true F2P MMOs to speak of. Also factor in that this game wears its info on its sleeve, meaning that you can pretty much see 1 to 1 relationships, making theorycraft relatively easy. I am willing to bet that there will be gear apps aplenty in a few months time, if they don't already exist, offering build possibilities. Pile onto that the shorter leveling time to endgame, and the community has no chance at all to even resemble the old community, as if that could ever happen.

Which is why you can't put Humpty back together again.



Sad but true, most of those (including myself) that played FFXI, were indeed young, but now most likely have more responsibility: family, jobs, a life lol. The thing is, it was definitely fun and made that drag on of a game extremely fun, but I have come to grips that, that was the past. The now is different and it is what you make it. I'm sure the friend making abilities we had are too old to use in this game and that is fine. Since the game isn't as slow paced, I can adapt and move on with it. I doubt I would find any of the people I played FFXI with anyway. But, it was fun back in the day. I quit FFXI before the cap was raised to 99 or was it 100? So it has been a while since I played a mmo... I will wait to play FFXIV until later this year once ps4 comes out and see how the game is progressing then.
____________________________
Game: FFXI
Character: Karumii (Mithra)
Server: Fenrir
Jobs: 75WHM, 75BLM, 75BLU, 75NIN
Status: Retired (2009)
#16 Sep 07 2013 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,075 posts
The game can be as social as you strive for it to be. Personally, I like not having to put on the guise of being your bestest bud in a random PUG full of people I'll probably never interact with directly again. In a lot of all the XI nostaliga "I wish..." posts, for all the, "I talked in every EXP party I had!" they tend to omit how many they never spoke to after. And that reality is okay, as maintaining hundreds of friends and being a "good friend" by doing things for them can be quite time intensive. As well, pre-50 content doesn't really require those kind of ties, which is also good as long as the prevailing MMO sentiment seems to be that the game doesn't really begin until the ever-misnomer of endgame.

Either way, grab some linkshells, a FC, talk in FATE parties, schmooze with all the other crafters, lurk in a given zone's chat. People can and do talk, but it's nice not having to be a slave to others just to do basic things.
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#17 Sep 08 2013 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
74 posts
So far the community is about a billion times better than WoWs ever was so that is a big plus.

I also hate forced "play nice" gameplay. It is how I end up having stuff stolen from me or feeling the need to punch someone in the face. Its much easier to know who the jerks are and stay away from them then try the guessing game.
____________________________
FFXIV: Lamia
FC: Swarm
Character: ...whatever name I decide to use this week.
#18 Sep 08 2013 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
41 posts
its just a totally different mechanic as ffxi. social aspects of 14 is, most importantly, through how easy it is to execute a lower lvl dungeon for someone in need. there sooooo many times i had mates askibg for help with dungeons while i was questing, and all i had to do was join their parties and bam! off i went - no gear swapping, no saving gear for lower lvl caps.

as with everything, social elements require initiatives. grabter, 11 made it mandatory, but it is aldo true that if it follows the 11 system i most likely wont be playing this game because its too commitment heavy :)
____________________________
Shu'on Vana'diel [Keeper of the Sun F] [Order of the Twin Adder]
CNJ50 THM28 ACN15 - MRD45 GLA45 ARC19 LNC15 PUG15
#19 Sep 08 2013 at 5:10 PM Rating: Excellent
*
131 posts
Seriha wrote:
The game can be as social as you strive for it to be. Personally, I like not having to put on the guise of being your bestest bud in a random PUG full of people I'll probably never interact with directly again. In a lot of all the XI nostaliga "I wish..." posts, for all the, "I talked in every EXP party I had!" they tend to omit how many they never spoke to after. And that reality is okay, as maintaining hundreds of friends and being a "good friend" by doing things for them can be quite time intensive. As well, pre-50 content doesn't really require those kind of ties, which is also good as long as the prevailing MMO sentiment seems to be that the game doesn't really begin until the ever-misnomer of endgame.


The reality for me in FFXI was more that as I levelled in exp parties, and ran into some of the same people over and over in parties and slowly would get to know folks - particularly those who were good at the game and seemed cool - and LS's formed and those LS's grew up into HNMLS's in time as we reached cap and got decked out and became more experienced. With the way FFXI was, you really were bound to run into the same people over and over again while leveling up in exp parties, and those would be people who played during the same timeframe that you did, and it would all kind of fit together conveniently. At least, that's how it worked for me and I suspect a lot of the other end-game HNMLS crews in FFXI.
____________________________
Dusk Sanatore (CNJ, FSH, GSM) @ Cactuar
Dusk D'norte (MRD) @ Kujata
#20 Sep 08 2013 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,556 posts
Eriston wrote:
I just wish we still had <call> so I could use the whistle ever time I provoke something.


Try <se.3>

:D
#21 Sep 09 2013 at 6:14 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*
72 posts
Joining an FC, or guild, as it's more commonly referred to, is your best bet for any meaningful conversation. Most of general chat has become so meaningless that I have become accustomed to turning it off as one of the first settings while configuring my HUD. There are always going to be FC's tailored to your needs, and FF is one of the few MMO's that still have more of the "social" type communities. It may take a little work to find one since the majority I've seen recruiting are hard core/endgame variety. But they are out there. Speaking of FFXI, I remember that what made fishing so enjoyable was that there were always people having quality conversations in general chat, and I could spend hours enjoying them while fishing. Or, having conversations with other fishers while fishing on the Ferry.

Edited, Sep 9th 2013 8:16am by SistinasAria
#22 Sep 09 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
**
589 posts
Just one quick response. Dungeons in FFXIV require lots of motion. In FFXI you could stand in one place the whole time for some jobs and never move. I play scholar and at times I can't say much to my party if I'm spamming my heal so chatting isn't the best thing. And on boss fights you definitely can't just stand in once place. This is what I see about all bosses which is good. Moving and DPS/Tanking/Healing AND chatting is a bad idea. FFXI I could auto-attack and write a speech, hit WS macro and got back to switching my insurance to geiko.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 72 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (72)