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Need Vs. GreedFollow

#52 Sep 09 2013 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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Warby wrote:
The 2 relic quest bosses Chimera and Hydra are not used in the duty finder.


That's great to hear. Honestly, even that much gives me some hope for present progress and future content.

Thanks for clearing that up!
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#53ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Sep 09 2013 at 2:59 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I roll need on everything I can. Its not ******** anyone over. If I can not use it, I will trade it in for GC seals.
#54 Sep 09 2013 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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I roll need on everything I can. Its not ******** anyone over. If I can not use it, I will trade it in for GC seals.


If you roll Need on something you don't need, how is that not ******** someone over?

If something drops that I don't need (maybe because what I have is better), I roll greed on that. It's just polite.
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#55ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Sep 09 2013 at 3:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ive never seen a need roll that I couldnt use. And even so tough I am allowed to roll need
#56 Sep 09 2013 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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And it's due to people like this that these systems start to break down.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#57 Sep 09 2013 at 3:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's due to people like that that the Need button has severe restrictions placed on it.
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#58 Sep 09 2013 at 4:34 PM Rating: Default
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KaneKitty wrote:
                   
And it's due to people like this that these systems start to break down.


Archmage Callinon wrote:
It's due to people like that that the Need button has severe restrictions placed on it.

Id like to point out that the current system is pretty foolproof. I cant roll need on things I dont need. So if you guys are getting butthurt over losing a roll for an alt class to someone else it is pretty pathetic. You cant just willy nilly roll need. **** if you have the item already it wont let you roll need. Its not being abused. So why are you guys crying over it?
#59 Sep 09 2013 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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So do only pinks get the need option? Assuming you are of the correct job type I mean. Maybe I should ask instead when does one get the need option?
#60 Sep 09 2013 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
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MrTalos wrote:
So do only pinks get the need option? Assuming you are of the correct job type I mean. Maybe I should ask instead when does one get the need option?


You will have the option to roll Need on any item relevant to your current class.

This means that STR-based leather is open for lancers and pugilists. DEX-based everything is open to archers. Items with an emphasis on defensive stats are open to MRD and GLD. And of course anything that's class-specific like a main-hand weapon is restricted to that class only.

The game is pretty good about managing this effectively. Off the top of my head I can't remember any instances where it's just been dead wrong.

And no, quality doesn't matter, all gear is treated this way when it drops in a dungeon.
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#61 Sep 09 2013 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
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If I'm playing with members from my FC, I'll pass on everything I can't roll a Need for. I'll even pass on Need items I already have. If I'm playing with random peeps from DF, I'm rollin' Need and Greed on everything. F' em!
#62 Sep 09 2013 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
You will have the option to roll Need on any item relevant to your current class.

This means that STR-based leather is open for lancers and pugilists. DEX-based everything is open to archers. Items with an emphasis on defensive stats are open to MRD and GLD. And of course anything that's class-specific like a main-hand weapon is restricted to that class only.

The game is pretty good about managing this effectively. Off the top of my head I can't remember any instances where it's just been dead wrong.

And no, quality doesn't matter, all gear is treated this way when it drops in a dungeon.

Ah okay. There have been times when I was the healer in the group and greeded on some leather belt and it seemed the melee also greeded on the belt and I got it. I know on my pugilist I had to greed on a leather belt that a healer caster won with another greed so I was trying to figure out why I didn't get a need.
#63 Sep 09 2013 at 7:12 PM Rating: Good
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Get use the the Need rolling. Happened back in WoW until enough people complained about it and they changed the way you can roll on gear type. Your best bet is if you see something drop and you think "dang that would really be nice to have" you should roll Need. If you just want it to sell for chump gil (I won a Greed roll on a Lance in a Dungeon,while on my Lancer. It was not an upgrade, so thus the Greed roll, was suggested that I just sell it..and why not? Smart Idea, but is gear from Dungeons become bound? I still have the lance as it is unique...actually I don't even think I can NPC sell it :3) or maybe let it sit on the back burner until you level the class(es)/jobs it is for, hit greed.


Sadly, the 'shouldn't be this way' attitude is the right one, but very few ascribe to it. People just assume there's never going to be any repercussions for their actions within a MMO setting such as Duty Finder. WoW players were dosed with some sour grapes after the LFD debacle, and i'd imagine some corrections will be coming to ours as well. Is the system faulty in regards to 'fairness'? Sure. Is it working as intended for helping people group up? Yes.

Edited, Sep 9th 2013 6:13pm by Dallie
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#64 Sep 09 2013 at 7:29 PM Rating: Default
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Perhaps the folks don't understand the difference. I, for example, assumed that there are 3 options: Need, Greed, or Pass. And I assumed that "need" meant you want it (aren't passing) but are rolling legitimately against others whereas greed meant, as the name certainly implies "it's mine ******!" But after reading OP's post I'm thinking this isn't true? If I want a piece of gear what should I select?
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#65 Sep 09 2013 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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Need: I haven a legitimate need and use for this item.
Greed: I can't use it on this class but I want it anyway.
Pass: I don't want it at all.

All the lots are assigned a number. Needs count first. If only one person rolls Need, they win. If two people roll Need, highest wins. If no one rolls Need, then it drops to the Greeds. Highest Greed roll wins. If everyone passes, it falls to the aether.

So roll Greed rather than let gear go to waste!
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#66 Sep 09 2013 at 11:13 PM Rating: Decent
I run dungeons as a Gladiator/Paladin and whenever an item pops up I don't have the option to need it unless it is specifically for GLD/PLD.
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#67 Sep 10 2013 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Warby wrote:
The 2 relic quest bosses Chimera and Hydra are not used in the duty finder.


That's great to hear. Honestly, even that much gives me some hope for present progress and future content.

Thanks for clearing that up!

I think it sucks. I rather use the DF.
#68 Sep 10 2013 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Warby wrote:
The 2 relic quest bosses Chimera and Hydra are not used in the duty finder.


That's great to hear. Honestly, even that much gives me some hope for present progress and future content.

Thanks for clearing that up!

I think it sucks. I rather use the DF.


I'm with you on that one. When I read how SE implemented that, it left my mouth agape. What happens to someone just starting now, that once they get to the point of being able to get their AF gear, get locked out because everyone else has already gotten theirs and there is no benefit to fighting them again. While I'd like to think there are a bevy of people out there willing to help out their fellow gamer, the reality is that they are falling into the trend of 'It's all about me. If there's no benefit for me, why should I help?' I can see that being one of the first things changed. It works well enough now, because everyone needs them.
#69 Sep 10 2013 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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DragonBourne wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Warby wrote:
The 2 relic quest bosses Chimera and Hydra are not used in the duty finder.


That's great to hear. Honestly, even that much gives me some hope for present progress and future content.

Thanks for clearing that up!

I think it sucks. I rather use the DF.

I'm with you on that one. When I read how SE implemented that, it left my mouth agape. What happens to someone just starting now, that once they get to the point of being able to get their AF gear, get locked out because everyone else has already gotten theirs and there is no benefit to fighting them again. While I'd like to think there are a bevy of people out there willing to help out their fellow gamer, the reality is that they are falling into the trend of 'It's all about me. If there's no benefit for me, why should I help?' I can see that being one of the first things changed. It works well enough now, because everyone needs them.

Higher level players with all the gear that they need to use already can still benefit from the exp bonus when clearing a dungeon with at least one person that's doing it for the first time. Also, they can always Greed the loot that the new player doesn't need or want, and turn them in for GC seals.

Also, it sounds like SE is working on a new way to seek for dungeons that they plan to introduce in patch 2.1. It sounds like it will focus on allowing people to form groups with others on the same server, and will be more flexible than DF as far as assigning party roles (e.g. you can seek as a THM that wants to main heal). We can already /shout to try and do the same, but you're stuck with /shouts only reaching other people in the same zone. It sounds like it's going to be what SE was partly trying to do with FFXI Linkshell Beta web site, and will be a nice middle of the road between using DF and just /shouting for a group.
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#70 Sep 10 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
DragonBourne wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Warby wrote:
The 2 relic quest bosses Chimera and Hydra are not used in the duty finder.


That's great to hear. Honestly, even that much gives me some hope for present progress and future content.

Thanks for clearing that up!

I think it sucks. I rather use the DF.

I'm with you on that one. When I read how SE implemented that, it left my mouth agape. What happens to someone just starting now, that once they get to the point of being able to get their AF gear, get locked out because everyone else has already gotten theirs and there is no benefit to fighting them again. While I'd like to think there are a bevy of people out there willing to help out their fellow gamer, the reality is that they are falling into the trend of 'It's all about me. If there's no benefit for me, why should I help?' I can see that being one of the first things changed. It works well enough now, because everyone needs them.

Higher level players with all the gear that they need to use already can still benefit from the exp bonus when clearing a dungeon with at least one person that's doing it for the first time. Also, they can always Greed the loot that the new player doesn't need or want, and turn them in for GC seals.

Also, it sounds like SE is working on a new way to seek for dungeons that they plan to introduce in patch 2.1. It sounds like it will focus on allowing people to form groups with others on the same server, and will be more flexible than DF as far as assigning party roles (e.g. you can seek as a THM that wants to main heal). We can already /shout to try and do the same, but you're stuck with /shouts only reaching other people in the same zone. It sounds like it's going to be what SE was partly trying to do with FFXI Linkshell Beta web site, and will be a nice middle of the road between using DF and just /shouting for a group.


Yeah, I'm aware of all that. I'm speaking more specifically about the Chimera and Hydra fights. There is absolutely no incentive for someone to fight them again once they've gotten their 'reward' from them. This creates a 'shut off' at one point or the other. I'm not at that point in the game yet (quickly approaching at Lvl 48), but I'm aware it's a level 50 battle, which means even XP is off the table as an incentive. From what I understand, you can't queue for it in duty finder, as they actually spawn on the server itself. So, someone reaching that point in a month will have to have everything stacked in his favor to even have a chance at getting a group to help him.

1) There will have to not only be enough people left that still need it, but enough of the respectful classes/jobs to form a balanced party capable of defeating it. This is, of course, barring the fact that he is in a good. well populated and diversified FC/Linkshell where others don't necessarily need personal gain to help another out.

2) Without the use of some kind of overall unified chat, he is reduced to either hoping everyone (if they exist) is in the same zone he is shouting for a group, or must continually travel from zone to zone, shouting as he goes

3) It's just really not well thought out in long term. I think you get what I'm saying. It kind of contradicts the reason DF exists in the first place.
#71 Sep 11 2013 at 6:23 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:

My apologies for being somewhat dense on the matter, but I'm looking for a direct answer.

Is there content in this game that requires one to play with people from one's own server? That is, cooperative group content that cannot even access the duty finder for members?


I might be totally off, but I thought there was some announcement/discussion about a future feature addition to Duty Finder to allow players to compose parties from only their own server....? I'm going to see if i can find that link...

edit: add Post by KingoGoodbomber

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 8:30am by Piminto
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#72 Sep 11 2013 at 9:38 AM Rating: Default
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Piminto wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:

My apologies for being somewhat dense on the matter, but I'm looking for a direct answer.

Is there content in this game that requires one to play with people from one's own server? That is, cooperative group content that cannot even access the duty finder for members?


I might be totally off, but I thought there was some announcement/discussion about a future feature addition to Duty Finder to allow players to compose parties from only their own server....? I'm going to see if i can find that link...

edit: add Post by KingoGoodbomber

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 8:30am by Piminto

There is going to be a same server bulletin board lfg, likewhat they have now. No one will use it I guarantee as long as you can get in DF quick
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