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Need Vs. GreedFollow

#27 Sep 08 2013 at 11:36 PM Rating: Decent
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This would be what I call Wowification of MMOs. That hate filled nasty "community" spread its filth to everything else.

FFXIV will never be as bad as WoW but you should just go ahead and give up any chance of it being anything near what games like FFXI, EQ and DAoC had.
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#28 Sep 09 2013 at 12:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Ill chime in here. I've rolled need on things that's were not unique in WoW as an example and people of course got mouthy about it. I'd kindly inform them that I did indeed need that item for another character. So I'd mail it after the run and pug up again. Alright that's one aide of the coin for me.

I've also open trade windows with people that have needed something that I needed on and knew it was an upgrade, gave them the item and called it good. I don't believe in being a total prick to strangers.

PUGs are going to be a random set of people or you'll run into the same person or persons each time you que. you never know. What you feel you need you roll need. If you wanna be nice and greed instead of needing then its your game. You paid the money for the game and when subs come up you're paying the subs, not joe blow random guy ******** at you to only need what you really. It is my opinion that people can need whatever the **** they want. If I see everyone rolling need then guess what I'll be doing that as well. You don't know if you've got someone playing CNJ job and using that to farm gear for say GLD or THM.
#29 Sep 09 2013 at 12:51 AM Rating: Default
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Strangerous wrote:
Dungeon finders might be a great way to create a community, and they do work. However cross server dungeon finders to the exact opposite.

Problem is no one wants to wait for a dungeon, and issues arise when new players join late...if you don't cross server it. However it completely wrecks the community bonding that may occur because chances are youll never see those people again.

Before I played a cross server dungeon finder game, that had a dungeon finder, it was great. You met people, developed relationships either positive or negative based on their actions and performance in the dungeon. People earned reputations, good or bad. Eventually you knew who was good, and you kept track of those people until you didn't need the dungeon finder you just PMed all the good players you met in the finder.

But because of above mentioned issues with dungeon finders...cross server finder became the norm. All the community interaction was with random people on other severs...**** I don't even know who is or isn't on my server using the duty finder. Its like, wow we just had an awesome run you guys are great...*poof* gone forever...which is good when things go awful...I guess.


No disrespect, but I'm gonna call hogwash on this. It's only as 'random' as you allow it to be. In almost all of my DF groups, I'll ask everyone where they are from and a lot of them are on my friend list right now. Others too, that happened to be on the same server would add each other to their friend list at the end of the run. If you just blindly run through without opening your mouth and interacting, don't be surprised of the lonely feeling you get from it at the end of the day.
#30 Sep 09 2013 at 3:18 AM Rating: Decent
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The duty finder is just like everything else in life; it's all in your perspective.

An optimist sees an opportunity in every calamity; a pessimist sees a calamity in every opportunity.
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#31 Sep 09 2013 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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So, just to bump the question I asked last night about Archmage Callinon's reply: is there indeed content in this game that can't be completed with cross-server auto-grouping? That is, content that requires cooperation with others on your server?

Working with others in a persistent community is the reason I play(ed) MMORPGs, so this is an essential issue for me.
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#32 Sep 09 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
So, just to bump the question I asked last night about Archmage Callinon's reply: is there indeed content in this game that can't be completed with cross-server auto-grouping? That is, content that requires cooperation with others on your server?

Working with others in a persistent community is the reason I play(ed) MMORPGs, so this is an essential issue for me.


If it requires even the faintest Ammount of coordination then the content will be impossible with randoms and might require teamspeak or ventrillo for better communication. Essentially you could try it in the duty finder but good luck getting anything done.
#33ImmolatedHope, Posted: Sep 09 2013 at 10:31 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Alright. Gonna have to put the stake in this thread.
#34 Sep 09 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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ImmolatedHope wrote:
Alright. Gonna have to put the stake in this thread.

To those of you who haven't played XI. It's the same system, just differently named. You rolled for items when you lotted them. This was your "Need" the only thing SE added was Greed. But let's recap here, people are using the Need/Greed. But I've yet to see people actually bring up the word "Pass". I remember sitting in Brayflox's Longstep and I could tell this player was from WoW. Here is how our conversation went at the beginning of the dungeon.


Me: I'm looking for Battlemage Gear.

Them: Okay :)

A chest comes up. Had Battlemage's Gloves in them. I did my need and I had announced it before hand

Me: Pass this please. I need it.

Them: I hit Greed.

Me: Why would you hit Greed when you don't even play the class. (Mind you they were 34 Dragoon)

Them: Because I just wanted them.

Me: You're not even going to use the gear right now. If I get it then I'll be using it.You should try to at least pass on items you don't need.

Them: Why? The point of the Greed button is to get things you want. I'm not going to pass and not use what is in the game.

Me: Yes but it's proper party etiquette, which is something you don't have so it seems.

After that whole spout, I ended up getting the gloves anyway, which I in fact rubbed in their face like a bad habit,

It's just the players don't have common sense and want everything just to have it instead of asking first. It's give me and then ask later after you've greeded on everything in the pool. It's madness.

Edited, Sep 9th 2013 12:33pm by ImmolatedHope


Wait, I thought Need overruled Greed? Am I missing something here?
#35ImmolatedHope, Posted: Sep 09 2013 at 10:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It does, but when someone then Greed's on something it holds the item in the queue for longer than if you just simply passed the item.
#36 Sep 09 2013 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think there's some confusion over how these buttons work.. please allow me to explain.

Pass: Takes you out of the running for the item entirely
Greed: Rolls for the item if nobody pushes Need
Need: Rolls for the item and overrides Greed rolls.

So let me summarize.. if you push Need on an item, you only roll against other people who also pushed Need. As soon as anyone Needs on an item, Greed rolls are automatically discarded. The only time Greed ever comes into play is if nobody pushes Need.

Essentially, you should always Greed on items you can't use and Need on any items you need. Once you're a Sergent Second Class with your GC, you can turn in pink and green-quality items you don't need for seals.

Someone rolling Greed does not affect your Need roll in the slightest.

Now, if you've got someone in there competing with you for gear legitimately, you can ask them to pass on something you're looking for. And it's entirely up to them whether they do that or not.

EDIT because this wasn't here:

Quote:
It does, but when someone then Greed's on something it holds the item in the queue for longer than if you just simply passed the item.


Items will roll as soon as everyone has made a selection. If something is sitting in the loot pool collecting dust, it's because it's waiting for someone to push SOMETHING, ANYTHING.

Edited, Sep 9th 2013 11:42am by Callinon
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#37 Sep 09 2013 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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ImmolatedHope wrote:
It does, but when someone then Greed's on something it holds the item in the queue for longer than if you just simply passed the item.


But you're still guaranteed the item, right? I agree, it would be easier to pass, since the person could equip it immediately, which would benefit the whole party, but when it's striped to its core, its really not an issue. I would call it a minor annoyance, at best.
#38 Sep 09 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Default
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Thank you for the clearance, I just hate this system the way it is. People are just...blah.
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#39 Sep 09 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
I think there's some confusion over how these buttons work.. please allow me to explain.

Pass: Takes you out of the running for the item entirely
Greed: Rolls for the item if nobody pushes Need
Need: Rolls for the item and overrides Greed rolls.

So let me summarize.. if you push Need on an item, you only roll against other people who also pushed Need. As soon as anyone Needs on an item, Greed rolls are automatically discarded. The only time Greed ever comes into play is if nobody pushes Need.

Essentially, you should always Greed on items you can't use and Need on any items you need. Once you're a Sergent Second Class with your GC, you can turn in pink and green-quality items you don't need for seals.

Someone rolling Greed does not affect your Need roll in the slightest.

Now, if you've got someone in there competing with you for gear legitimately, you can ask them to pass on something you're looking for. And it's entirely up to them whether they do that or not.

EDIT because this wasn't here:

Quote:
It does, but when someone then Greed's on something it holds the item in the queue for longer than if you just simply passed the item.


Items will roll as soon as everyone has made a selection. If something is sitting in the loot pool collecting dust, it's because it's waiting for someone to push SOMETHING, ANYTHING.

Edited, Sep 9th 2013 11:42am by Callinon


That's how I was under the assumption it worked and the way it has always worked, as far as I'm aware. Pressing Greed hurts absolutely no one, because if someone needed it for their current class, they would have the option to do so. Sorry about double post, but wanted to +1 Callinon's comment and he posted as I was posting my previous.
#40 Sep 09 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think the only thing that holds up the queue is if the non-lotters don't pass. Someone lotting Greed on an item isn't going to affect it if no one else lotted or passed.

I've started rolling Greed on everything I can, because I've seen gear drop to the ground when everyone passed before. Might as well Greed it rather than let it go to waste. (This is how I ended up with all 20 sets of Dynamis gear in FFXI.)
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#41 Sep 09 2013 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
I think the only thing that holds up the queue is if the non-lotters don't pass. Someone lotting Greed on an item isn't going to affect it if no one else lotted or passed.

I've started rolling Greed on everything I can, because I've seen gear drop to the ground when everyone passed before. Might as well Greed it rather than let it go to waste. (This is how I ended up with all 20 sets of Dynamis gear in FFXI.)


Nicely said, CatWho. The only way I PASS is if I have absolutely no use for an item (i.e a GLD/PLD item drops and ,being a PLD, the one I have is better)
#42 Sep 09 2013 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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DragonBourne wrote:
The only way I PASS is if I have absolutely no use for an item
You could probably sell it to an NPC.

Edited, Sep 9th 2013 12:51pm by lolgaxe
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#43 Sep 09 2013 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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I almost always hit pass, since i make all my own gladiator gear and HQ gear is on par with pink dungeon drop gear. I really like how this game did crafting and dungeon gear feel like there are two options to get great gear!
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#44 Sep 09 2013 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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DragonBourne wrote:
Catwho wrote:
I think the only thing that holds up the queue is if the non-lotters don't pass. Someone lotting Greed on an item isn't going to affect it if no one else lotted or passed.

I've started rolling Greed on everything I can, because I've seen gear drop to the ground when everyone passed before. Might as well Greed it rather than let it go to waste. (This is how I ended up with all 20 sets of Dynamis gear in FFXI.)


Nicely said, CatWho. The only way I PASS is if I have absolutely no use for an item (i.e a GLD/PLD item drops and ,being a PLD, the one I have is better)


You should still Greed that and give it to the GC personnel officer for seals if you win it.

Or if an item drops that you already own, Greed it, and if you win you can convert your existing one to materia and equip the new one.
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#45 Sep 09 2013 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
DragonBourne wrote:
Catwho wrote:
I think the only thing that holds up the queue is if the non-lotters don't pass. Someone lotting Greed on an item isn't going to affect it if no one else lotted or passed.

I've started rolling Greed on everything I can, because I've seen gear drop to the ground when everyone passed before. Might as well Greed it rather than let it go to waste. (This is how I ended up with all 20 sets of Dynamis gear in FFXI.)


Nicely said, CatWho. The only way I PASS is if I have absolutely no use for an item (i.e a GLD/PLD item drops and ,being a PLD, the one I have is better)


You should still Greed that and give it to the GC personnel officer for seals if you win it.

Or if an item drops that you already own, Greed it, and if you win you can convert your existing one to materia and equip the new one.


I could, but I'll give the others a shot at equipping an off-class or something. :)
#46 Sep 09 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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moonfroh wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
So, just to bump the question I asked last night about Archmage Callinon's reply: is there indeed content in this game that can't be completed with cross-server auto-grouping? That is, content that requires cooperation with others on your server?

Working with others in a persistent community is the reason I play(ed) MMORPGs, so this is an essential issue for me.


If it requires even the faintest Ammount of coordination then the content will be impossible with randoms and might require teamspeak or ventrillo for better communication. Essentially you could try it in the duty finder but good luck getting anything done.


My apologies for being somewhat dense on the matter, but I'm looking for a direct answer.

Is there content in this game that requires one to play with people from one's own server? That is, cooperative group content that cannot even access the duty finder for members?
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#47 Sep 09 2013 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
moonfroh wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
So, just to bump the question I asked last night about Archmage Callinon's reply: is there indeed content in this game that can't be completed with cross-server auto-grouping? That is, content that requires cooperation with others on your server?

Working with others in a persistent community is the reason I play(ed) MMORPGs, so this is an essential issue for me.


If it requires even the faintest Ammount of coordination then the content will be impossible with randoms and might require teamspeak or ventrillo for better communication. Essentially you could try it in the duty finder but good luck getting anything done.


My apologies for being somewhat dense on the matter, but I'm looking for a direct answer.

Is there content in this game that requires one to play with people from one's own server? That is, cooperative group content that cannot even access the duty finder for members?


The 2 relic quest bosses Chimera and Hydra are not used in the duty finder.

Also away from that question. Why the on earth does this game allow you to roll need on a piece of gear you already have? That is just plain stupid.
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#48 Sep 09 2013 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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Warby wrote:
Also away from that question. Why the on earth does this game allow you to roll need on a piece of gear you already have? That is just plain stupid.

Seems most the stuff I come across in dungeons is unique so I can't need or greed on it.
#49 Sep 09 2013 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Warby wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
moonfroh wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
So, just to bump the question I asked last night about Archmage Callinon's reply: is there indeed content in this game that can't be completed with cross-server auto-grouping? That is, content that requires cooperation with others on your server?

Working with others in a persistent community is the reason I play(ed) MMORPGs, so this is an essential issue for me.


If it requires even the faintest Ammount of coordination then the content will be impossible with randoms and might require teamspeak or ventrillo for better communication. Essentially you could try it in the duty finder but good luck getting anything done.


My apologies for being somewhat dense on the matter, but I'm looking for a direct answer.

Is there content in this game that requires one to play with people from one's own server? That is, cooperative group content that cannot even access the duty finder for members?


The 2 relic quest bosses Chimera and Hydra are not used in the duty finder.

Also away from that question. Why the on earth does this game allow you to roll need on a piece of gear you already have? That is just plain stupid.


You can't roll on "Green" gear if you have it in inventory already. That's need or greed. If its Pink you can.
#50 Sep 09 2013 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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ImmolatedHope wrote:
Thank you for the clearance, I just hate this system the way it is. People are just...blah.

I'm guessing that the player that you had that conversation with is thinking the same thing about you. You accused him of lacking proper etiquette and then proceed to rub your newly obtained gear in his face. Now that you know how the Need/Greed system works, imagine what the other 2 members of your party must have thought of you after all that drama.
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#51 Sep 09 2013 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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I like duty finder, its a good way to potentially meet everyone in the entire game. What will depress me though is if I hit it off well with a party member, and she or he is gone forever when the run is over - and we will be both aware of this and likely talk while still in the instance after boss is killed, until the instance kicks us out. But I know I'll try to get some way to stay in touch, like park a char on their server or something. It'd still bother me that we wont play together, unless I level up said parked char.
DragonBourne wrote:
ImmolatedHope wrote:
It does, but when someone then Greed's on something it holds the item in the queue for longer than if you just simply passed the item.


But you're still guaranteed the item, right?

Yes you are. It's on a timer of sorts(you can see a "life bar"), and unlike FFXI, you will not lose the item if everyone has not lotted/pushed something.

Edited, Sep 9th 2013 5:00pm by TwilightSkye
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