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BUYING GOLD!Follow

#52 Sep 09 2013 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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If I was rich in RL and don't care about getting banned because all I have to do is pay another 29.99 for a copy of the game, heck yea I would buy gil. I wouldn't want to waste hours upon hours farming for a particular item when I merely want to enjoy the game without doing any tedious work. Leave that to the peasants. Look at the super wealthy in real life. They don't work or pay taxes. They have people working for them and making money off of them. Just keeping it real, folks. And as always, haters be hating.
#53 Sep 09 2013 at 2:42 PM Rating: Default
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svlyons wrote:
[quote=KingoGoodbomber]Right now, repairing gear through crafting still feels like I'm having to pay gil, on top of having to do extra leg work.

Exactly right. It's not worth doing just to shave a few hundred gil off the price.
#54 Sep 09 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure how you're going from "there aren't enough ways to make money at 50" to "buying gil is a-ok."

I'll grant you there's a problem making money at 50, especially with the math presented there. The game has practically no currency generation from vendor trash and presently no repeatable quests outside of leves (which are on a strict cooldown).

That probably deserves some fixing as it's an issue with the game's design.

That does not make cheating and account stealing ok.

Keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of gil is going to come from stolen accounts and exploits. So by buying gil, you are supporting and financing those practices.

I'm not saying that making negative money just playing the game is acceptable, I'm saying that buying gil to solve that problem is not.
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#55 Sep 09 2013 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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KingoGoodbomber wrote:

One guy even made a thread about how he made a new character just to get the gil from its quests as it levels to finance his raiding, it was made this afternoon, already has ~5.8k views and is currently 9 pages.

I am confident that SE will address the problem but it doesn't help people who are depleting their funds just by having fun, their decision to sub will be impacted by their perceived lack of gil and the perceived difficulty of actually generating new gil just to cover the costs of having fun.


Hah! **** that guy beat me to it. I actually thought of this last night. Along with doing the quests for gil, I was thinking if I paid the 12.99 for 6 months, I can get 8 characters to play. Meaning I can have up to 8 characters on my server, get them to level 20 or so and unlock the retainers and basically have 16 retainers on my account. I can send gil back and forth between those characters to purchase my own items and thereby making it look like someone is actually buying the items at redic prices -totally manipulating the market. (Or at least the items I'm selling.)
That is unless SE puts in place a restriction that disallows the purchase of items on the same account. Currently, I can't buy my own items off the AH.....I haven't put my theory to test yet with the additional characters.


Edited, Sep 9th 2013 4:59pm by ASpaceman
#56 Sep 09 2013 at 2:53 PM Rating: Default
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The problem is the repair issue. Either get rid of it or do a quest to lower the prices of repairs. Repairs seems to the biggest cause here. Only getting a percentage of your total take since u gotta pay for repairs..just lame.
#57 Sep 09 2013 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Techsupport wrote:
So I am going to play devils advocate here because I like a good argument on the internet.......and "Devils Advocate" is my in game name anyhow!

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I mean if you feel the need to buy gold and cheat your way then it's going to show when you get to end-game. You'll have all the gold in the world and probably the most expensive gear, but that won't replace a shred of skill. So please go ahead and buy gold so I can laugh at you when you get banned and when people start reporting you as a bad player.


So you are saying that if someone is to buy gold then they are automatically just a ****** and can't play the game worth a ****? So let's just use me as an example. I am a **** good tank, I take my time, hold aggro and study game mechanics, to the point I won't run a dungeon until I watch a "guide" on the bosses so I know what's up and how to lead my team in battle so to speak. Due to real world stuff I work about 65-70 hours a week consistently and have a wife and three kids still at home. So my play time is very limited as you can imagine.

But by your logic as good of a player as I am, if I decide to buy gold then suddenly all of my player skill just magically vanishes? I figure my performance would increase because then not only do I have my knowledge of the game at top notch but then the same gear to match.

I personally think all the gil buying stuff is way overrated anyway. I mean most of the best in slot gear in the game is bound to character, so the stuff you could "buy" just doesn't seem worth it to me. Now I know I will probably never get all the BIS gear since my playtime but that just is what it is.

Most MMO's have started making the gear as such to help cut down on the RMT's anyhow. I just don't see why you would buy Gil this particular game, it is just so easy to come by. But then again I am only level 34 and I have no idea what the endgame stuff cost but I am at over 20k in gil and I haven't done anything other than dungeons, story quests and a few FATE parties........

This is my sentiments exactly......
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If not, and players are expected to adopt a more "FFXI" mentality of "Ten hours of work for one hours of fun" then people aren't going to be extending their sub after their trial is up


Edited, Sep 9th 2013 4:23pm by Techsupport


You failed to see the logic I was using, by players who don't know what they're doing and just buy gold to get gear and look cool. They'll have no clue what they're going to do when they run end-game dungeons. The only reason why they got as far as they did is because they're carrying themselves around on a "silver platter" so to speak. It's like having a **** ton of money in real life, buying a Ferrari and then not knowing how to drive it. I'm only targeting THOSE players. For you to sit here and subject yourself to that kind of situation makes me question whether or not you understood the entirety of my post to begin with.
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#58 Sep 09 2013 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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Am I wrong to think that one way to save on repairs is to not wear your A-game gear for every minor skirmish you get into? Just save it for the boss fights, and such?
#59 Sep 09 2013 at 2:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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At the risk of posting in a thread with some rather extreme opinions, let me see if I can summarize 10+ years worth of MMO debates over gil selling and buying.

First of all it's not allowed by the Terms of Use. It just not. You are risking your entire account being banned, stolen or hacked, and contributing to an enterprise that uses of various means to hassle and irritate players while they are trying to relax and enjoy themselves. You probably will lessen the enjoyment you get out of the game by short-cutting the achievements that most players find satisfying.

On the other hand, there is a point where the demands of an MMO outpace what a normal player can contribute. For example, let's say you have progressed to Endgame, farmed legitimately for all of your current gear for endless hours, and are now at a point where the next step up for equipment will take you 100+ hours, per piece, to farm gil yourself. Furthermore, the next level of Endgame content requires that armor/equipment/food just to get in the door. So now you have to decide, if further farming is not your thing, you can just quit the game. Goodbye, all done. OR, you can spend some of your own money, take the risk to your account (which is otherwise useless if you quit) and buy the gear you need to participate in the next level of Endgame content. Spend $60 for a month or two of additional game play fun? That is the going rate for video game fun anyway, is it not?

In conclusion, no one really knows what the End-Endgame content in FFXIV is like. Do you absolutely need double melded Equipment and Materia IV to win? I'm not talking about the current content. I can tell you now that you can EARN everything you need in a reasonable amount of time to participate in the content that is currently available. Anyone buying gil at this time just wants that shiny bling-bling now, now, NOW!

But one day, will they make content that is extremely demanding in Equipment Requirements in order to keep the super Hardcore busy? Probably.
Will Casual players want to participate too? Probably.

And the Gil sellers will be there to make it happen.

My advice is: Don't Panic. Settle down, learn to use your /blacklist. Let SE catch up on their task force to minimize in-game advertisements and irritation. (That was not a priority last week if you remember correctly.) Enjoy the game the way you play it, and grudgingly accept that other people have different priorities. It's going to be ok.


#60 Sep 09 2013 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not saying it is acceptable, just saying that people will use gil seller services when they run out of gil because SE - in what I am assuming was a play to dissuade RMT - provides no way of easily getting it outside of boring grinds or alts. It is a simple cost benefit analysis easily rationalized by telling yourself you make enough money at your real job and doing stuff that isn't perceived as fun is a waste of time. What are their alternatives? Dignified boredom is a difficult choice for most people compared to spending the equivalent of maybe an hour of their labor to keep raiding. Dignified and bored or have fun as a closet cheater, it's an easy choice for a lot of people.

People need a reason to buy gil and SE gave them a huge incentive to do so. Get to 50, upgrade gear, wipe all night, run out of money simply having fun with no way to sustain yourself. Now you can either spend hours and hours farming leves or attempting to hustle others out of their gil (all while the AH takes its cut, further diluting the money supply), or spend a few bucks with little risk of retaliation from SE and keep progressing. Seems like an invitation for gold sellers to fill a demand for more currency in the FFXIV market to me.

Edited, Sep 9th 2013 5:00pm by KingoGoodbomber
#61 Sep 09 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Default
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Xoie wrote:
Am I wrong to think that one way to save on repairs is to not wear your A-game gear for every minor skirmish you get into? Just save it for the boss fights, and such?

does that seem like fun to you?
#62 Sep 09 2013 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
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SyniteonReflux wrote:
ImmolatedHope wrote:
This is a no brainer. Don't buy from RMTs. Why?

Anonymous Sellers
You'll get caught due to gold spikes/spending sprees.
And why would you waste real money like that? You can earn everything in this game.



Actually for many people there's a very legitimate reason, given that you have no qualms with disrupting the in-game economy for your own benefit, why would you spend 5 hours grinding for 100k gil, when you can say, work one extra overtime hour at work and have the $50 it costs to buy that gil?

That is assuming you make $50/hour after tax, but how much do you make an hour? What's your time worth to you? It all depends.



I get this. Why would I spend 5 hours playing a game I like to earn some gil when I can work more hours in the job where I am underpaid and overworked to buy that gil. In fact why the **** am I spending all this time leveling this character when I can just get a second job during the weekend and buy a character with all jobs at 50 and 100000000000000 gil!!

I know you were just trying to make a point SyniteonReflux but I just can't get on board with that logic. It's like getting the newspaper to solve the crossword puzzle, then waiting a week to get the newspaper with the answers and solving the puzzle with the answers next to you. It just defeats the purpose to me. Kind of an outdated example but it's the first thing that came to mind.

Yes, making gil is not as easy as it was in 1.0. Gil sellers are not making it easy for SE to implement changes in that regard either. Don't buy gil kids!
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#63 Sep 09 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know about you all but I didn't buy this game to play Final Fantasy: Wardrobe Manager or Final Fantasy: Financial Planner. I do enough of that IRL and it simply isn't fun having to do it in an MMO. I bought the game to have fun playing Final Fantasy: A Realm Reborn without worrying about whether or not I'm going to have to put my fun on hold while I spend a few days enriching vendors and grinding leves that barely turn a profit because I had fun leveling up and didn't ration every nickel so I could afford to wipe 50x while progressing. It's just not fun and punishes players for teleporting and using other mechanics that are introduced in the first ten levels long before the quests dry up and the budget simulator begins.
#64godagun, Posted: Sep 09 2013 at 3:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You should just stop playing and leave zam for posting this op.
#65 Sep 09 2013 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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KingoGoodbomber wrote:
I don't know about you all but I didn't buy this game to play Final Fantasy: Wardrobe Manager or Final Fantasy: Financial Planner. I do enough of that IRL and it simply isn't fun having to do it in an MMO. I bought the game to have fun playing Final Fantasy: A Realm Reborn without worrying about whether or not I'm going to have to put my fun on hold while I spend a few days enriching vendors and grinding leves that barely turn a profit because I had fun leveling up and didn't ration every nickel so I could afford to wipe 50x while progressing. It's just not fun and punishes players for teleporting and using other mechanics that are introduced in the first ten levels long before the quests dry up and the budget simulator begins.


Sorry but making money is part of playing an MMORPG.

If you want to discuss a design flaw in the game, that's fine, but there's no way for you to rationalize cheating. It simply can't be done.
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#66 Sep 09 2013 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Disregarding that it's obviously bad, unskilled and what not.

You're forgetting that when you're paying them, You're doing this just to make the main chat uninhabitable, get people and yourself spammed with tells, while you could have just enjoyed the game without all that *********** if no one bought gil from them in the first place.

RMT is a scourge that ruins every little bit of enjoyment and fun i'm having when i'm in a town... it's THAT bad right now on my server. And even reporting them doesnt seem to work at all.
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#67 Sep 09 2013 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:

Sorry but making money is part of playing an MMORPG.

I'm sure Yoshi will be telling his bosses this very thing when the sub numbers drop off after the free trial is over. Typical, "It's the players fault for not understanding the genre/vision/game" excuse that is sung in chorus by the white knights as part of every MMO's death throes. No, the players get it, they just don't want it. They want to have fun on their own terms.

And yes, making money is part of every MMORPG but in every other MMORPG you can actually have fun while doing it. This FUN part seems to be what is alluding. What you perceive as fun others might not. What you perceive as cheating someone else will rationalize as cost effective.

I don't buy from RMT but I learned long ago that calling them names like "cheater" and trying to shame them won't get any of them to change their behavior, at least not in any way you might be hoping. They'll keep doing it they simply won't tell you about it.
#68 Sep 09 2013 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Disregarding that it's obviously bad, unskilled and what not.

Sorry but there is zero correlation between skill and RMT. As if grinding enhances player skill in any way. It doesn't. Just like buying gold doesn't diminish a player's skills. You might perceive them as a cheater that doesn't make them a scrub.
#69 Sep 09 2013 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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SE also doesn't see anything wrong with people doing boring grinds for gil. Farming for gil is a huge huge part of FFXI, for example. (You don't even get much gil for quests there.) They made crafting a central component to XIV under the expectation that every character would do it.

You don't "just" get to raid. That's a rather shallow way to play a game, honestly.
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#70 Sep 09 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
What you perceive as cheating someone else will rationalize as cost effective.


No, cheating is not subjective.

Cheating is defined as intentionally breaking the rules in order to gain an advantage. In this case, buying gil is against the TOS. Therefore intentionally doing it anyway is cheating.
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#71 Sep 09 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
.. there's no way for you to rationalize cheating. It simply can't be done.


Now wait a minute. This is completely erroneous. People rationalize cheating all the time. Some people call cheating the natural result of the desire to improve, the most logical next step.

I'll bet the first farmers were called cheaters by the hunter/gatherer's. You know what the farmers said? Boom, civilization. In your face.

I'll bet you I could list so many great reasons for cheating that you would read them, turn of your PC, inject yourself with some steroids, call in some drone strikes, assassinate some corrupt world leaders, phone tap all your friends, restart the industrial revolution and then sit back and just be a winner for the rest of your life.
#72 Sep 09 2013 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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KingoGoodbomber wrote:
Xoie wrote:
Am I wrong to think that one way to save on repairs is to not wear your A-game gear for every minor skirmish you get into? Just save it for the boss fights, and such?

does that seem like fun to you?

It depends. In FFXI, multiple gear sets was the way you did business, albeit for slightly different reasons. But situational gear is not an unheard of concept for FFXI vets.
#73 Sep 09 2013 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
I'm still trying to figure out what Gil is good for..

My first FF experience and I have more Gil than I know what to do with.

I travel via porting EVERY chance I get, repair often and every couple of levels check the marketplace for new gear.

Even with all that I have oodles of Gil.

Do they plan on implementing something later that is a money sink?

#74 Sep 09 2013 at 4:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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clanofthekestrel wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out what Gil is good for..

My first FF experience and I have more Gil than I know what to do with.

I travel via porting EVERY chance I get, repair often and every couple of levels check the marketplace for new gear.

Even with all that I have oodles of Gil.

Do they plan on implementing something later that is a money sink?



Try filling your gear with Materia and then get back to us.

:D
#75 Sep 09 2013 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Always an interesting discussion.

A few points of reference so folks understand where I am coming from.

- Interesting that some of the people complaining about gil buyers are the same who AFK'd during the first week and a half of the game, but that was okay. Hmm...
- In EQ and WoW I bought plat and gold.
- Buying in game currency is in violation of most games EULA therefore I and others have broken or are breaking the rules.
- in 13 years of MMORPG gaming I have never, never, experienced a destroyed economy as a result of RMT. Inflated? sure, but ruined? No.

The sanctimonious drivel that some of you are shoveling is ridiculous. EARN. Really? Because I may participate in RMT I don't know how to EARN? Laughable. I EARN my money just fine, thank you. I choose to spend it in whatever manner I see fit. It always has a result/consequence tied into it. Sometimes it's wife agro, sometimes I feel silly for what I bought and sometimes I have to "pay the piper". In other words, I am well aware that I am breaking a rule. I am well aware that I could be banned. But I don't care. I don't care because having the currency I need and still being able to have fun in game is important to me. I do not like to gather or farm. I'll use the market place to sell things and I'll accumulate currency from mobs and quest. If I get to a point where that is not sufficient, then I will most like buy.

And for the folks who want to scream at me, that's fine. I might actually listen when you don't break the speed limit, or stop using a foot or hand wedge in golf, or not fib to your boss on why you were late or call out sick when your just fine at home gaming, or telling your parents your busy with work when they invite you over.

Get over yourselves. It's a violation of a rule and if I am caught I pay a price, just like you do if you violate the "rules" I listed above.

The real argument is not whether it's wrong. We can all agree that it is. The real argument is if it actually destroys or really hurts an economy.
#76 Sep 09 2013 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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LoremAmet wrote:
SyniteonReflux wrote:
ImmolatedHope wrote:
This is a no brainer. Don't buy from RMTs. Why?

Anonymous Sellers
You'll get caught due to gold spikes/spending sprees.
And why would you waste real money like that? You can earn everything in this game.



Actually for many people there's a very legitimate reason, given that you have no qualms with disrupting the in-game economy for your own benefit, why would you spend 5 hours grinding for 100k gil, when you can say, work one extra overtime hour at work and have the $50 it costs to buy that gil?

That is assuming you make $50/hour after tax, but how much do you make an hour? What's your time worth to you? It all depends.



I get this. Why would I spend 5 hours playing a game I like to earn some gil when I can work more hours in the job where I am underpaid and overworked to buy that gil. In fact why the **** am I spending all this time leveling this character when I can just get a second job during the weekend and buy a character with all jobs at 50 and 100000000000000 gil!!

I know you were just trying to make a point SyniteonReflux but I just can't get on board with that logic. It's like getting the newspaper to solve the crossword puzzle, then waiting a week to get the newspaper with the answers and solving the puzzle with the answers next to you. It just defeats the purpose to me. Kind of an outdated example but it's the first thing that came to mind.

Yes, making gil is not as easy as it was in 1.0. Gil sellers are not making it easy for SE to implement changes in that regard either. Don't buy gil kids!


I said for "many people" this of course does not apply to everyone, I'm making the assumption that this would apply if someone was one of the many people who do make a decent living, their time is worth a certain amount an hour. And some of these people actually enjoy their jobs, you're right in your situation it makes no sense. Also I don't agree grinding for gil is any fun, content is fun, not the grinding for repair money because it's so annoying to make gil at 50.

Anyways I don't condone gil selling or buying, it ruins the game for everyone including me, I get a different sense of accomplishment doing things legitimately but some people have busy lives and they will always be part of the market.
#77 Sep 09 2013 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
Gnu wrote:
clanofthekestrel wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out what Gil is good for..

My first FF experience and I have more Gil than I know what to do with.

I travel via porting EVERY chance I get, repair often and every couple of levels check the marketplace for new gear.

Even with all that I have oodles of Gil.

Do they plan on implementing something later that is a money sink?



Try filling your gear with Materia and then get back to us.

:D



So I'm guessing that there is endgame content where that makes a difference or is that content still to come?

Not at 50 yet and I've found the GC gear to be far superior to anything dropped or sold in the marketplace - I haven't had any trouble zippnig through content/fights.

#78 Sep 09 2013 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
What you perceive as cheating someone else will rationalize as cost effective.


No, cheating is not subjective.

Cheating is defined as intentionally breaking the rules in order to gain an advantage. In this case, buying gil is against the TOS. Therefore intentionally doing it anyway is cheating.

Yeah, and? So what? You seem to have a hard time understanding the concept of cognitive dissonance. Name calling and shaming will only change the behavior of others towards you, not in the way you hope. They'll still do it they just won't tell you about it.

The only "solution" is through clever and innovative game design. Fountains that aren't fun to play in and everything else as a sink is neither clever nor innovative, it's not even very fun. Quite frankly it's lazy and has led to the unintended consequence of raiders actually having to use the RMT services the game was [apparently] designed to inhibit. Giving raiders an incentive to use RMT because the alternatives are boring is not good design.
#79 Sep 09 2013 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
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OldKnees wrote:
Always an interesting discussion.

A few points of reference so folks understand where I am coming from.

- Interesting that some of the people complaining about gil buyers are the same who AFK'd during the first week and a half of the game, but that was okay. Hmm...
- In EQ and WoW I bought plat and gold.
- Buying in game currency is in violation of most games EULA therefore I and others have broken or are breaking the rules.
- in 13 years of MMORPG gaming I have never, never, experienced a destroyed economy as a result of RMT. Inflated? sure, but ruined? No.

The sanctimonious drivel that some of you are shoveling is ridiculous. EARN. Really? Because I may participate in RMT I don't know how to EARN? Laughable. I EARN my money just fine, thank you. I choose to spend it in whatever manner I see fit. It always has a result/consequence tied into it. Sometimes it's wife agro, sometimes I feel silly for what I bought and sometimes I have to "pay the piper". In other words, I am well aware that I am breaking a rule. I am well aware that I could be banned. But I don't care. I don't care because having the currency I need and still being able to have fun in game is important to me. I do not like to gather or farm. I'll use the market place to sell things and I'll accumulate currency from mobs and quest. If I get to a point where that is not sufficient, then I will most like buy.

And for the folks who want to scream at me, that's fine. I might actually listen when you don't break the speed limit, or stop using a foot or hand wedge in golf, or not fib to your boss on why you were late or call out sick when your just fine at home gaming, or telling your parents your busy with work when they invite you over.

Get over yourselves. It's a violation of a rule and if I am caught I pay a price, just like you do if you violate the "rules" I listed above.

The real argument is not whether it's wrong. We can all agree that it is. The real argument is if it actually destroys or really hurts an economy.

To be honest, i dont even care about ANY of that. **** the economy. Truly, We dont use gil anyhow.

Back when all RMT did was farm monsters here and there in a far away corner and sell their profits for real money, everyone was cool with it. And why not? They were just more "devoted" players farming more than anyone else. Good for them.

But now that they're litterally ******* off people endlessly, ruining any chance you have of talking in a town due to the massive amounts of /shout spam from them from a new character every 5 minutes, it's just TOO much. At this rate i dont even want to play the game anymore. If they simply werent so agressive about it, no one would have cared. Now it's ruining the fun we're having inside the game just by having them there.
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#80 Sep 09 2013 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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clanofthekestrel wrote:
Gnu wrote:
clanofthekestrel wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out what Gil is good for..

My first FF experience and I have more Gil than I know what to do with.

I travel via porting EVERY chance I get, repair often and every couple of levels check the marketplace for new gear.

Even with all that I have oodles of Gil.

Do they plan on implementing something later that is a money sink?



Try filling your gear with Materia and then get back to us.

:D



So I'm guessing that there is endgame content where that makes a difference or is that content still to come?

Not at 50 yet and I've found the GC gear to be far superior to anything dropped or sold in the marketplace - I haven't had any trouble zippnig through content/fights.


Prepare to have your perceptions changed.

In case that one doesn't do it.

And just in case third time is a charm.

SE. We have a problem.
#81 Sep 09 2013 at 4:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
I'm not sure how you're going from "there aren't enough ways to make money at 50" to "buying gil is a-ok."

I don't think anyone has made that argument. What is being said is that the game itself is creating a market for buying and selling gil.

The more I think about it, the less I like gear durability. If you wanted to play FFXI without needing much gil, there were ways you play it while spending little to no gil. You could simply run every where you went, and avoid paying for things like airship and ferry rides and chocobo rentals. But in FFXIV, you can't just avoid gear repairs. I suppose you could minimize what you have to repair by only wearing a weapon and nothing else. But that hardly seems like a good solution. Fancy gear is a big part of why people play RPGs. They shouldn't be discouraged from wearing gear because they're better off not having to repair it.
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#82 Sep 09 2013 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
KingoGoodbomber wrote:
Xoie wrote:
Am I wrong to think that one way to save on repairs is to not wear your A-game gear for every minor skirmish you get into? Just save it for the boss fights, and such?

does that seem like fun to you?

It depends. In FFXI, multiple gear sets was the way you did business, albeit for slightly different reasons. But situational gear is not an unheard of concept for FFXI vets.

I see your point but in those cases it is actually fun.

I had multiple sets in Warcraft (e.g. tank sets: threat vs. EH), GW2 (WWW vs. PvE), FFXI (Classes), etc. but each one of those sets served a specific purpose and acquiring them and using them and maxing them was fun and none of them were simply junk sets I wore around town or during trash just so I could have fun with my other sets and not run out of money.
#83 Sep 09 2013 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Cheating is never cool - be it buying gil, using third party programs (unauthorised) or any other type of "hack" program.
I have seen so many people over the years either losing their accounts to Gil Sites or being banned for using exploits.
It just isn't worth it to me.
This game isn't even a month old and we've had a heap of problems.
The Gil seller spam is very annoying, but, it implies to me that there are methods of obtaining gil that we - the legit players haven't found yet and I'm guessing it's easy coz these guys aren't known for slavishly following anything hard.
Unless of course it's very lucrative-thinking Sky triggers here.
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#84 Sep 09 2013 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
OldKnees wrote:
Always an interesting discussion.

A few points of reference so folks understand where I am coming from.

- Interesting that some of the people complaining about gil buyers are the same who AFK'd during the first week and a half of the game, but that was okay. Hmm...
- In EQ and WoW I bought plat and gold.
- Buying in game currency is in violation of most games EULA therefore I and others have broken or are breaking the rules.
- in 13 years of MMORPG gaming I have never, never, experienced a destroyed economy as a result of RMT. Inflated? sure, but ruined? No.

The sanctimonious drivel that some of you are shoveling is ridiculous. EARN. Really? Because I may participate in RMT I don't know how to EARN? Laughable. I EARN my money just fine, thank you. I choose to spend it in whatever manner I see fit. It always has a result/consequence tied into it. Sometimes it's wife agro, sometimes I feel silly for what I bought and sometimes I have to "pay the piper". In other words, I am well aware that I am breaking a rule. I am well aware that I could be banned. But I don't care. I don't care because having the currency I need and still being able to have fun in game is important to me. I do not like to gather or farm. I'll use the market place to sell things and I'll accumulate currency from mobs and quest. If I get to a point where that is not sufficient, then I will most like buy.

And for the folks who want to scream at me, that's fine. I might actually listen when you don't break the speed limit, or stop using a foot or hand wedge in golf, or not fib to your boss on why you were late or call out sick when your just fine at home gaming, or telling your parents your busy with work when they invite you over.

Get over yourselves. It's a violation of a rule and if I am caught I pay a price, just like you do if you violate the "rules" I listed above.

The real argument is not whether it's wrong. We can all agree that it is. The real argument is if it actually destroys or really hurts an economy.

To be honest, i dont even care about ANY of that. @#%^ the economy. Truly, We dont use gil anyhow.

Back when all RMT did was farm monsters here and there in a far away corner and sell their profits for real money, everyone was cool with it. And why not? They were just more "devoted" players farming more than anyone else. Good for them.

But now that they're litterally ******* off people endlessly, ruining any chance you have of talking in a town due to the massive amounts of /shout spam from them from a new character every 5 minutes, it's just TOO much. At this rate i dont even want to play the game anymore. If they simply werent so agressive about it, no one would have cared. Now it's ruining the fun we're having inside the game just by having them there.


Fair enough. I can appreciate that. That's how I felt about the AFKer's.

Only bad thing about ZAM forums. It should be like or dislike. Love when someone presents a thought out opinion and it get's down rated to oblivion. LOL, way to debate folks.
#85 Sep 09 2013 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
Fancy gear is a big part of why people play RPGs. They shouldn't be discouraged from wearing gear because they're better off not having to repair it.

So true. People didn't hang out on top of the AH in Org to show off their hemp gear.
#86 Sep 09 2013 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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KissMyPixel wrote:
Cheating is never cool - be it buying gil, using third party programs (unauthorised) or any other type of "hack" program.
I have seen so many people over the years either losing their accounts to Gil Sites or being banned for using exploits.
It just isn't worth it to me.
This game isn't even a month old and we've had a heap of problems.
The Gil seller spam is very annoying, but, it implies to me that there are methods of obtaining gil that we - the legit players haven't found yet and I'm guessing it's easy coz these guys aren't known for slavishly following anything hard.
Unless of course it's very lucrative-thinking Sky triggers here.


They're hacking accounts of people who buy gil from them.

It's like a terrible Ponzi scheme. They started out with dozens of hacked accounts from people who didn't use a token and use the same username and password for each account. They lure in stupid people who go to buy gold, not realizing the websites are malware infested honeypots. Along with your cash for gil, they load trojans and keyloggers and probably sell your CC number out on the black market.

A week later, they hack the accounts of the people who bought gil, get all their gil and then some back, and use the account to shout until it's banned.

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#87 Sep 09 2013 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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The guys in my LS doing hardmode runs have a decent amount of Materia equipped, but I think the answer is "no" the current content does not absolutely require it.

And yet, crafting and GATHERING is greatly, GREATLY influenced by your CP, GP, control and perception. Wait need caps for that. PERCEPTION.

Every little bit of stat you can add to your equipment changes the whole dynamic of what you will get, what is possible to craft/gather and what your time spent vs. return on investment will be. So, the crafting/gathering Materia is currently the most expensive and hard to acquire item that I know of. You can't just whip some up. You have to equip some gear, then Spiritbind it, then hope that your Convert turns it into the Materia you wanted. (Which it will not.)

Maybe Crafting/gathering is not your thing.

Yoshida did state that EXTREME mode battle were coming. And players would absolutely need every possible edge to succeed. I think this is where double-meld equip will come into play. (And subsequently, the point at which some casual players will either quit or buy some gil.)

#88 Sep 09 2013 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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KissMyPixel wrote:

The Gil seller spam is very annoying, but, it implies to me that there are methods of obtaining gil that we - the legit players haven't found yet and I'm guessing it's easy coz these guys aren't known for slavishly following anything hard.

My guess is they make multiple characters and do simple quests, vendor everything, transfer the gold to a mule/bank character then rinse and repeat. I assume this because it is what legit players have resorted to for gil and seems like an easy way of getting it.
#89 Sep 09 2013 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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ImmolatedHope wrote:
Techsupport wrote:
So I am going to play devils advocate here because I like a good argument on the internet.......and "Devils Advocate" is my in game name anyhow!

Quote:
I mean if you feel the need to buy gold and cheat your way then it's going to show when you get to end-game. You'll have all the gold in the world and probably the most expensive gear, but that won't replace a shred of skill. So please go ahead and buy gold so I can laugh at you when you get banned and when people start reporting you as a bad player.


So you are saying that if someone is to buy gold then they are automatically just a ****** and can't play the game worth a ****? So let's just use me as an example. I am a **** good tank, I take my time, hold aggro and study game mechanics, to the point I won't run a dungeon until I watch a "guide" on the bosses so I know what's up and how to lead my team in battle so to speak. Due to real world stuff I work about 65-70 hours a week consistently and have a wife and three kids still at home. So my play time is very limited as you can imagine.

But by your logic as good of a player as I am, if I decide to buy gold then suddenly all of my player skill just magically vanishes? I figure my performance would increase because then not only do I have my knowledge of the game at top notch but then the same gear to match.

I personally think all the gil buying stuff is way overrated anyway. I mean most of the best in slot gear in the game is bound to character, so the stuff you could "buy" just doesn't seem worth it to me. Now I know I will probably never get all the BIS gear since my playtime but that just is what it is.

Most MMO's have started making the gear as such to help cut down on the RMT's anyhow. I just don't see why you would buy Gil this particular game, it is just so easy to come by. But then again I am only level 34 and I have no idea what the endgame stuff cost but I am at over 20k in gil and I haven't done anything other than dungeons, story quests and a few FATE parties........

This is my sentiments exactly......
Quote:
If not, and players are expected to adopt a more "FFXI" mentality of "Ten hours of work for one hours of fun" then people aren't going to be extending their sub after their trial is up


Edited, Sep 9th 2013 4:23pm by Techsupport


You failed to see the logic I was using, by players who don't know what they're doing and just buy gold to get gear and look cool. They'll have no clue what they're going to do when they run end-game dungeons. The only reason why they got as far as they did is because they're carrying themselves around on a "silver platter" so to speak. It's like having a sh*t ton of money in real life, buying a Ferrari and then not knowing how to drive it. I'm only targeting THOSE players. For you to sit here and subject yourself to that kind of situation makes me question whether or not you understood the entirety of my post to begin with.


I understood your post just fine, you are labeling a situation you don't have any idea about, plain and simple. If you can come up with some data to back the idea that gil buyers are stupid and running around with a silver platter then please pass that information on so we can discuss it. Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean you know everything about it. You assume people buy gold get gear to look cool, you assume they will have no clue on endgame content.

I know someone that works with my company who drives a Viper Super Snake, and yes, he has no idea how to drive the thing to it's potential, he also went out and bought a Citation III to fly his kids and the family's kids around rather than taking normal flights like the rest of us. Under your reasoning, Brandon should be considered just stupid when in reality he runs one of the most successful business' in town.

I am only bringing this up because I played FFXI for a long time, about 7 years, and I can't recall someone with the top notch gear that where just horrible at their job. Now I saw plenty of people who wore average to slightly above par gear that sucked balls.........I don't know, maybe I can't wrap my head around this gil buying stuff, I just can't see someone buying gil who are complete turds.

I still think it is wrong and cheating for sure, no doubt. While I could afford it in my real life circumstances, there is no way I am going to buy gil for this game. I would much rather buy some new golf clubs or any number of things that I would get real world benefit out of.
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#90 Sep 09 2013 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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ASpaceman wrote:
If I was rich in RL and don't care about getting banned because all I have to do is pay another 29.99 for a copy of the game, heck yea I would buy gil. I wouldn't want to waste hours upon hours farming for a particular item when I merely want to enjoy the game without doing any tedious work. Leave that to the peasants. Look at the super wealthy in real life. They don't work or pay taxes. They have people working for them and making money off of them. Just keeping it real, folks. And as always, haters be hating.


You know, if its just your problem i wouldnt care at all. But WE are ALL spammed in chats and tells during our precious time of gaming. And thats ONLY because there are people like you out there. Its also a tedious work to blacklist 3-4 names after zoning into a city. Thats what i had to do today on the server i am.
#91 Sep 09 2013 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
KissMyPixel wrote:
Cheating is never cool - be it buying gil, using third party programs (unauthorised) or any other type of "hack" program.
I have seen so many people over the years either losing their accounts to Gil Sites or being banned for using exploits.
It just isn't worth it to me.
This game isn't even a month old and we've had a heap of problems.
The Gil seller spam is very annoying, but, it implies to me that there are methods of obtaining gil that we - the legit players haven't found yet and I'm guessing it's easy coz these guys aren't known for slavishly following anything hard.
Unless of course it's very lucrative-thinking Sky triggers here.


They're hacking accounts of people who buy gil from them.

It's like a terrible Ponzi scheme. They started out with dozens of hacked accounts from people who didn't use a token and use the same username and password for each account. They lure in stupid people who go to buy gold, not realizing the websites are malware infested honeypots. Along with your cash for gil, they load trojans and keyloggers and probably sell your CC number out on the black market.

A week later, they hack the accounts of the people who bought gil, get all their gil and then some back, and use the account to shout until it's banned.


Yes, I understand all that - but I still believe there is something we haven't found yet.
If not then this really is a sad state of affairsSmiley: oyvey
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FFXI: Kiyaya :Siren:
99 WAR/RDM/BLM/BRD/PLD/NIN/DNC/BST/MNK/SAM

FFXIV: Kiya Sirenia : Siren:
DoM: 37 Arcanist, SMN and SCH 15CNJ 15THM
DoW: 13MRD 12PUG
DoH: 45WVR 45BSM 45GSM 44CUL 40ALC 40CRP 39LTW 39ARM
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#92 Sep 09 2013 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
They're hacking accounts of people who buy gil from them.

It's like a terrible Ponzi scheme. They started out with dozens of hacked accounts from people who didn't use a token and use the same username and password for each account. They lure in stupid people who go to buy gold, not realizing the websites are malware infested honeypots. Along with your cash for gil, they load trojans and keyloggers and probably sell your CC number out on the black market.


Back that up please............where did you get that information from? Or did you just pull that out of your ***?

That would just be a horrible business model right? If that really was happening then wouldn't they not get any repeat business? Based on your thoughts then that means the only profitability of these companies is a one time user? So that is what has been keeping them in business for all these years?

And if that is the case then why are the only people who spammed me in FFXI and the people who have started to spam me in FFXIV have goofy names like "FJHD KJAJHJF" and "UNWEI KAJFH" then?

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#93 Sep 09 2013 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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curious about the "hacking their customers" statement as well. How does one determine another's SE ID and PW based on a server and a character name and perhaps a paypal address?
#94 Sep 09 2013 at 5:16 PM Rating: Default
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Prototyp wrote:
ASpaceman wrote:
If I was rich in RL and don't care about getting banned because all I have to do is pay another 29.99 for a copy of the game, heck yea I would buy gil. I wouldn't want to waste hours upon hours farming for a particular item when I merely want to enjoy the game without doing any tedious work. Leave that to the peasants. Look at the super wealthy in real life. They don't work or pay taxes. They have people working for them and making money off of them. Just keeping it real, folks. And as always, haters be hating.


You know, if its just your problem i wouldnt care at all. But WE are ALL spammed in chats and tells during our precious time of gaming. And thats ONLY because there are people like you out there. Its also a tedious work to blacklist 3-4 names after zoning into a city. Thats what i had to do today on the server i am.


Haters be haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttinnnnnnnnnngggggggg... hahah don't hate the player, hate the game.
#95 Sep 09 2013 at 5:25 PM Rating: Excellent
omgomgomgomgomgomgOHMAHGERD!!!!

I haven't seen a real gold-buying thread in the wild since the Great FFXI Christmas Inflation of 2005!

To know these threads STILL exist... it just...

Smiley: yippee

Woot!
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#96 Sep 09 2013 at 5:29 PM Rating: Default
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This topic is just as controversial as *** marriage, religion, politics, and drug use.
#97 Sep 09 2013 at 6:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
To be honest I almost nuked this thread because I thought it was an advertisement with the ALL CAPS and ! Smiley: laugh


I was halfway through the ban module before I looked at it closer, so you weren't the only one...
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#98 Sep 09 2013 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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KingoGoodbomber wrote:
Quote:
We need more ways to make gold in this game.

So far at 50 there are very few ways to generate gil.
3000gil/day from Leves.
<100gil per FATE
1400gil per dungeon run (per group, not per person)
This is not sustainable.

Repairs from a dungeon cost between 2k-5k per run (for the entire group)
The AH takes 5% out of the economy

You will lose money doing dungeons
You will lose money going out to grind
You will break even or small gain doing FATEs
You will earn limited money from Leves.

The way the game is currently setup there is simply not enough ways to generate money into the economy. Unless this is fixed the game economy will collapse.



You can get 20k+ from crafting leves every day, for a lvl 50. This require you to level gathering stuff if you strictly want new gil into the economy, and not buying material through AH because that's gil exchanging hands. All you need to do is crafting 3 x 3 x 6 HQ lvl 40 items and hand them in repeatable crafting leves, for 400 gil x 3 x 3 x 6 per day.
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#99 Sep 09 2013 at 6:46 PM Rating: Default
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Or rather not to waste time, no harm spending a few dollars to buy gils. USD$7/10000gils now. It's a reasonable rate. I do my transactions from an Internet cafe, I use Paypal to complete the transaction, and when the RMT company needs to give me a call, I give them my prepaid mobile SIM card number. Upon delivery, I have a secondary account for collection. There's no way for RMT to get near me. I know such antics from these companies and counter measures are in place.
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They are nobody, no higher or superior than yourself. So just posts whatever you would like to your hearts content. It may hit a nerve and boil blood but care not. Anyway, to have ratings in a post is clearly being BIAS.
#100 Sep 09 2013 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
KingoGoodbomber wrote:
Quote:
We need more ways to make gold in this game.

So far at 50 there are very few ways to generate gil.
3000gil/day from Leves.
<100gil per FATE
1400gil per dungeon run (per group, not per person)
This is not sustainable.

Repairs from a dungeon cost between 2k-5k per run (for the entire group)
The AH takes 5% out of the economy

You will lose money doing dungeons
You will lose money going out to grind
You will break even or small gain doing FATEs
You will earn limited money from Leves.

The way the game is currently setup there is simply not enough ways to generate money into the economy. Unless this is fixed the game economy will collapse.



You can get 20k+ from crafting leves every day, for a lvl 50. This require you to level gathering stuff if you strictly want new gil into the economy, and not buying material through AH because that's gil exchanging hands. All you need to do is crafting 3 x 3 x 6 HQ lvl 40 items and hand them in repeatable crafting leves, for 400 gil x 3 x 3 x 6 per day.

That's nice. So what? A level 50 combat job shouldn't have to go mine ore or cut down trees of be literally FORCED to level a craft to 50 simply to progress in the first tier of endgame content using combat jobs. And you won't even be leveling the craft with an end point of a nice endgame starting set but just the ability to afford your own repairs. Grats, you leveled a class to 50 for the sole purpose of doing a daily in order to maybe break even. Whoppity freaking do do. How is that fun?

When warriors were running out of gold in vanilla wow due to high repair costs (later nerfed) nobody told them to STFU and go grab a pick axe and farm copper or level tailor or blacksmith. They shouldn't have to. Not everyone think's making underwear and ignots for hours just to have an hour to do what you like is fun. If that is the case then it is simply poor not-fun game design.

The idea that you are forced to level a DoH class you may or may not find boring is also against the marketing message that SE is putting out for ARR, where you are not restricted and can do whatever you want and "switch classes on the fly" by merely swapping weapons. Yeah, sure, you can do whatever you want, just so long as you grind a craft you may find boring for hours and hours first. THEN you can have fun for like an hour before being FORCED to put your smock back on and go to "work" for another X hours enriching vendors so you can have fun again.
#101 Sep 09 2013 at 6:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uchida wrote:
Or rather not to waste time, no harm spending a few dollars to buy gils. USD$7/10000gils now. It's a reasonable rate. I do my transactions from an Internet cafe, I use Paypal to complete the transaction, and when the RMT company needs to give me a call, I give them my prepaid mobile SIM card number. Upon delivery, I have a secondary account for collection. There's no way for RMT to get near me. I know such antics from these companies and counter measures are in place.


First time in all my days where someone was like "Yep, I buy gil, what of it?" LOL

Bro, there is so much you can do to make gil in this game that ties directly to the GREAT storyline, you are actually missing out on some good gameplay by doing so. But more power to ya :)
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