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Discussion: Does DRG need a buff?Follow

#52 Dec 13 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
The only setup I haven't seen on turn 4 is 4 magic DPS. The knights do reflect magic back so it would be interesting to see it done. Other than that, it can be done with just about every setup. No job is required to win.

Turn 5 is beautiful because it actually works in such a way that having one of each job works very well.


First that is an awesome post. And it answers the question of the OP, as well as indicating that, more or less, the jobs are quite balanced.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
I'm not aware of any other snake strategies that don't involve killing them without AoE LB so you potentially need an AoE LB2 or LB3 from BLM or SMN.


As for the snakes, our static has been doing the following:
- after split, all DPS focus on the off tank's snake
- at a tiny little sliver of health, 2~3%, all dps switch to the main tank's snake
- we just kill the main tank snake
- at that moment, all the DD are welcome to LB the last snake. Single target, ranged, AoE doesn't matter who hits it. That kills the other snake in the 10 second window every time.

No coordination required really, except for that one Call to switch to the Main snake when the off-snake is at 2% health.


Edited, Dec 13th 2013 2:45pm by Gnu
#53 Dec 13 2013 at 4:08 PM Rating: Default
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
You say you can out DPS a BLM on turn 4 'easily' which automatically tells me this conversation is useless.

You do melee DPS a great disservice.

I'm sure some of us have written things a month ago that aren't accurate now due to how time works.

Khornette wrote:
I need no rotation that headploded me if my Full Thrust can crit 870 end-game boss/Primal. Also I get to survive the longest.

/thread

You don't need to follow a rotation, every single class end-game need to play by intuition, or you're dead.


Then again, no matter how much time passes, certain statements are always 100% wrong even at the time they were written.


I don't think we expected this to be necrobumped a month later.


And? Because rotation isn't something strictly followed, it all depends on situation especially melee. There are many many times as Melee you don't get to do your next combo in the rotation because you need to move out of AoE and it ruins your positioning. Easy for you to say since you play BLM, you don't require positioning, another great advantage for ranged jobs. It also doesn't help that every build has different Skill Speed and that SS affects both GCD and other CD changing the rotation. For e.g some DRG like to weave in Jump into their DPS, but at the current state with my SS Jump animation is too long to weave inbetween GCD like Leg Sweep, hence I don't always use it while on GCD. Also FYI my Full Thrust now crit 1,109 dmg.

I out DPS other jobs partly thanks to my gear (only 1 ring and pants are iLvl 70, rest are iLvl 90), partly thanks to what I actually do in battle. I've been called very aggressive melee by people.

Also FYI, i have played all job. I got all jobs with Relic and DL/iLvl 70 crafted. I don't theorise what other job should do without first hand experience. I hate to say this but, try to play a Melee job before tell me what to do. I've done your share of BLM, I know how to utilise current bug to do great DPS, thank you.
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#54 Dec 13 2013 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
I know how to utilise current bug to do great DPS, thank you.


Is this "bug" the ability to get an instant to cast at the same time as a normal spell? Such as a Firestarter proc'ed Fire III on the same animation/cooldown as Fire 1?

Or is there an additional bug?

Because I use that ability to slide an Instant in between two GCD abilities on many Jobs. If they are fixing that "bug" it is going to change how all Jobs are played, not just BLM.
#55 Dec 13 2013 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I know how to utilise current bug to do great DPS, thank you.


Is this "bug" the ability to get an instant to cast at the same time as a normal spell? Such as a Firestarter proc'ed Fire III on the same animation/cooldown as Fire 1?

Or is there an additional bug?

Because I use that ability to slide an Instant in between two GCD abilities on many Jobs. If they are fixing that "bug" it is going to change how all Jobs are played, not just BLM.


That isn't a bug. That's just using Off GCD at the same time as a GCD. You're right, every job uses that, and that will pretty much change everything.
#56 Dec 13 2013 at 4:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
DRG is just fine, but some people only look at raw data without being able to interpret it properly. For example, one of the weaknesses of any front line class is dodging the AoE's. That's not just a DRG concern. However, DRG has a few tools that help the job surpass other dps. One example is the Super Jump(yes, I'm calling it by the FFXI name) ability that sheds hate. This allows for DRG's to wreck havoc including using the LB more often without having a death sentence. Speaking of LB, it's common knowledge by most people that DRG has the most damaging LB so far. Now will I complain if they buff DRG some more, **** no, but it's the playerbase that isn't exploiting the job enough if any of this reedit nonsense holds any truth.



Edited, Sep 11th 2013 12:40pm by ShadowedgeFFXI


A couple of things:

Limit break doesn't generate hate. You can test this by having a BLM or SMN open on a boss with LB, and then do ANYTHING to that boss as something else. You can hit it with Shield Lob, or Scathe, or auto-attack it, and you'll take hate.

Elusive Jump (the Super Jump analogue you're talking about) is terrible for dodging AoE. It's great at dropping hate, this is true, but if you're using it to avoid AoE you'll be in for a mean surprise; the game registers you as at the point of origin up until you finally land, so it's very possible for you to be in midair, yalms away from an AoE, and still get hit by it.

edit: having perused the thread a bit more, I gotta add a few extra clarifications:

1. DRG does indeed have positional attacks, and they're very important. Heavy thrust provides a 10% damage boost, and can only be used from the flank (which also gives it increased damage). Impulse drive deals 180 potency in damage from behind, and starts the Disembowel/Chaos Thrust combo, which is the piercing debuff talked about. Losing one of these results in a pretty steep drop in DRG damage. Losing both puts them dead last.

2. Jumps as gap closers. DRG has three offensive Jumps; Jump, Spineshatter Dive, and Dragonfire Dive. Jump is not a gap closer; it roots you in place and returns you to where you used it. It's like a ghetto ranged attack in that regard, only it leaves you vulnerable to AoE near your target if you land while the attack is going off.

SSD and DFD are gap closers; the DRG sticks to the target like glue until they land. SSD is on a 90s CD, and DFD is on a 180s CD.

Elusive Jump is not a gap closer; it jumps the DRG 15 yalms backwards from their position, based on their facing. It serves as an aggro drop, but is no great when it comes to avoiding AoE (for reasons noted above).

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 5:10pm by Quor
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#57 Dec 13 2013 at 5:29 PM Rating: Default
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Elusive Jump doesn't reduce enmity, that was 1.0. ARR Elusive Jump removes Heavy/Bind.
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#58 Dec 13 2013 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
And? Because rotation isn't something strictly followed, it all depends on situation especially melee. There are many many times as Melee you don't get to do your next combo in the rotation because you need to move out of AoE and it ruins your positioning. Easy for you to say since you play BLM, you don't require positioning, another great advantage for ranged jobs. It also doesn't help that every build has different Skill Speed and that SS affects both GCD and other CD changing the rotation. For e.g some DRG like to weave in Jump into their DPS, but at the current state with my SS Jump animation is too long to weave inbetween GCD like Leg Sweep, hence I don't always use it while on GCD. Also FYI my Full Thrust now crit 1,109 dmg.

I out DPS other jobs partly thanks to my gear (only 1 ring and pants are iLvl 70, rest are iLvl 90), partly thanks to what I actually do in battle. I've been called very aggressive melee by people.

Also FYI, i have played all job. I got all jobs with Relic and DL/iLvl 70 crafted. I don't theorise what other job should do without first hand experience. I hate to say this but, try to play a Melee job before tell me what to do. I've done your share of BLM, I know how to utilise current bug to do great DPS, thank you.


Every time you post, you demonstrate just how little experience you have and yet you still try to debate with someone who has had multiple DRGs in his party who have done just fine and currently has a melee DPS in my group that contradicts everything you just wrote.

It's rather annoying to have someone say, "Lolz melee aren't needed in coil." when you 1) don't play your class to its full potential and 2) haven't done everything in coil to begin with.

And you still think you can out DPS a BLM in an AoE intensive turn. Things aren't looking good. Have any parses to show us? Would they even serve a purpose since you PUG coil? There is no quality control or guarantee that people in your groups are playing their jobs optimally.

Guess what? BLM does require positioning. What's funny is the fact that you are bringing T4 into this: a great instance where positioning matters a whole lot for BLM. We don't have unlimited range on our spells: movement is required. When we move, we have the potential to lose our stacks of astral fire which is equivalent of combos for melee. If I lose my stacks due to movement, I have to start from scratch like you.

Know what's also funny? You probably complain about losing your combo on something like Titan where you're forced to move out of a bomb yet neglect the fact that the bomb itself may be used to keep your combo alive. Works wonders for a MNK's greased lightning stacks.

Had you actually played BLM instead of simply citing your 2 minutes of experience as a level 50 BLM, you would already know this. Heck, you would find this information and this particular subject discussed on the BLM forums in a thread labeled "Movement".

[sarcasm]Your 1.1k crits are amazing.[/sarcasm] You do constant DPS in between your combos while all my DPS comes from casts. If I have to interrupt a cast to move, I am not currently DPSing. If you have to move, you can still perform your combo while on the move. Very similar to bard, actually.

The only job you have played, it would seem, is DRG. That's fine because you can sort of 'speak' from a melee standpoint. What I gather is that you have trouble playing your melee job where others in my FC have no problem doing so and parse the same as me or higher. Our FC's group 3 has a DRG in it and they've also downed her. A FC on Midgard that I'm rather friendly with has had two groups with DRGs in it that have downed her with no problem. There is a common factor here, you see.

There is no bug that causes us to do great DPS as BLM less you refer to faster cast time on one fire 1 and seem to think BLM is simple so this begs the question: why do you purposefully play a job that you perceive to be inferior to others?

BTW, here's Monday's parse for T5:

http://i.imgur.com/jnsj3dy.png

Ly is a MNK, Crono a BRD, and Bk a BRD.

All of this stemmed from the fact that you thought melee LB wasn't needed in coil, that melee were somehow undesirable, and that BRD blows all DPS out of the water. Guess you were wrong.
#59 Dec 13 2013 at 7:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Khornette wrote:
Elusive Jump doesn't reduce enmity, that was 1.0. ARR Elusive Jump removes Heavy/Bind.


Yes it does. Unless I'm bugged and it's magically just dropped my aggro each time I use it.

Also the tooltip must be lying when it says Additional Effect: reduces Emnity :p

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 5:53pm by Quor
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#60 Dec 14 2013 at 12:45 AM Rating: Decent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
All of this stemmed from the fact that you thought melee LB wasn't needed in coil, that melee were somehow undesirable, and that BRD blows all DPS out of the water. Guess you were wrong.


Yes, because we all know Melees are oh-so-desirable that SE decided to buff Melee and guess what, nerf Bard. Awesome fact. Just like the fact that WARs are awesome tanks for Coil that they need to buff their damage resistance in 2.1.

Melees are not desirable in Coil, this is fact. Pick a few group you know and you decide to forfeit the real fact of why 2.1 balancing is incoming. I said I haven't done T5, so? You know why you do the left side on T2, because it's to accomodate the guess what, Melee, to do their combo on ADS. Ever eat a Pacman + Cannon combo? Melee don't have room to combo while on the run.

Yea yea, the only job I have played is Melee, guess all my 9/9 Relic earned during DF and my tanking / BRD in Coil aren't really playing. Unlike you, I've played a whole lot different jobs to know what they do. You constantly posting low BRD DPS and you forgot that they are singing Mana Song (-20% dmg) and Foe Requiem (+10% elemental dmg) to raise YOUR DPS. Just FYI, Crono has 263.7 DPS while singing song (useless casting animation time for his own DPS) to boost your damage and you call it weak... There is also no Disembowel to do good thing for BRD in your parse, bravo slow claps. Just a simple calculation, with Foe Requiem you get 274 DPS and Crono has 263 DPS, with Disembowel Crono has 263 + 26 = 289 DPS, guess that doesn't blow YOU out of the water then. To make the matter worse, assuming the MNK only get 1 LB3 for his parse (20,000 dmg min for an all Relic+1 party), that's more than 10% off his DPS pushing his DPS down to 246... Thanks for posting proof against your own statement.

Edited, Dec 14th 2013 2:07am by Khornette

Quor wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Elusive Jump doesn't reduce enmity, that was 1.0. ARR Elusive Jump removes Heavy/Bind.


Yes it does. Unless I'm bugged and it's magically just dropped my aggro each time I use it.

Also the tooltip must be lying when it says Additional Effect: reduces Emnity :p

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 5:53pm by Quor


Must have missed that, I stand corrected.

Edited, Dec 14th 2013 3:17am by Khornette
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#61 Dec 14 2013 at 4:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
[b]Yes, because we all know Melees are oh-so-desirable that SE decided to buff Melee and guess what, nerf Bard. Awesome fact. Just like the fact that WARs are awesome tanks for Coil that they need to buff their damage resistance in 2.1.


Your calculations are hilarious considering it's a 13 minute fight. No ballad was used, foe requiem was used when no targets were out. There are two BRDs..maybe one is doing the singing while the other is doing the DPSing which is why one appears to doing less DPS. No? Guess that thought didn't cross your mind. Both Logrep and App have options to disable LB damage. It also seems you completely ignored the total damage done. And, to top it off, you seem to think disembowelment is required on T5 yet say melee DPS are not desirable at all in coil. Why don't you make up your mind?

I guess the foe requiem helped out the monk a lot. Smiley: lol

See this is what's great...you cannot assess the DPS in that group accurately because you can't really speak about T5 strategy which illustrates my point: you have no idea what you're talking about. Those 9 relics really aren't helping you too much considering it seems you only use one of them. :3

You've provided no evidence to support your claim(s), have no experience to speak from, and ignore evidence the other side has presented you. It honestly just sounds like an issue with you rather than melee.

Edit: BTW, next Monday I'll send you a message with the T4 parse. Usually I delete them because T4 is a horrible place to assess DPS unless you ignore the BLM's damage entirely and look at the other 3 DPS. Should make for a good laugh on my part, though.

Edited, Dec 14th 2013 5:44am by HitomeOfBismarck
#62 Dec 14 2013 at 4:51 AM Rating: Default
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Hilarious, what's next? Making excuse like "oh our BRD was also half asleep half of the time so their DPS is so low?". The total dmg done showed a BRD came out on top, is that somehow proof that BRD dmg is so low and melee has great time comboing stuff as well? So because DRG Disembowel combo benefits BRD, one who is greatly desired by party (Look at your pt make up, who woulda think, TWO bards?) that make them insta number 1 for invite? Like, 1 melee 3 ranged dps make up would somehow justify the fact that the melee is oh so popular? I don't get it, 1 melee, 3 ranged. If you don't invite BRD in for Songs as you say, and since their DPS is so low, I don't know what do you use them for. Hmm, hmm, hmm... oh I know, for kicks. So Turn 5 is the entire game in all? Wow.

Or did you honestly think the fact that Melee do have so great DPS that patch 2.1 has to up their DPS by 10% overall? Wow, just wow. If that's only an issue with me and me alone and SE is changing stuff to cater to my needs, I must be a billionaire who has lots of share in SE to pull strings.

As much as you would like to believe, what SE is changing is clearly stating the truth. Go on, please give your explanation why Melee is getting 10% DPS increased overall in 2.1 and why BRD is getting some cross-class ability taken away.

Also, I like to post this for kicks, 1 tank 5 turns setup.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1qxgmi/coil_of_bahamut_solo_tank_moogle/

Guess what? Ranged, ranged, ranged, ranged, ranged. Melee what?

Edited, Dec 14th 2013 6:13am by Khornette
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#63 Dec 14 2013 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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I'll just leave you with this. Attempting to have a dialogue is pointless when there is so much inconsistency/misinformation.

Your original statement

Khornette wrote:
Still, Melee DPS is not really that needed for BoC tbh (you don't really need single target LB3) and ranged at the moment just get so many advantages over melee.


My statement

Hitome wrote:
Not really the case at all.

Melee LB is incredibly useful for turn 1, turn 2, turn 4, and turn 5. Monk DPS is actually just a little lower than BLM DPS at the moment.

I would say BRD is sitting pretty nicely at the moment with a balance of many CDs, damage while moving, executes, DoTs, awesome from DoTs, and songs for everyone (realistically: BLM/SMN and your healers).

Again, will change a bit come patch.


Contradictory/erroneous comments in your posts

Khornette wrote:
Well actually DRG abilities animation are getting buffed to be faster and you can move instantly after/or almost instantly after it is used. SE believes that with this DRG can weave these abilities into their rotation (they are not on GCD) the approx dmg benefit will be 10%. Not that they are giving a straight 10% dmg increased to DRG.


Which conflicts with your previous post regarding melee receiving a flat 10% damage increase.

Khornette wrote:
Tl;dr: BRD can do everything other DPS specialise in, except for LB3.


Which should actually read: melee LB1-3. BRD also cannot stun like MNK and DRG can.

Khornette wrote:
Also FYI, i have played all job. I got all jobs with Relic and DL/iLvl 70 crafted.


Which has no place in this conversation given it is about coil. You have only raided with one of those jobs. This discussion pertains to raid-based content making this comment irrelevant. Not to mention the fact that having a relic does not make you an expert at the job.


Misinformed opinions in your post

Khornette wrote:
Currently the only non GCD DRG use to maximise dmg is Leg Sweep (120 potency/20 sec CD), because in later content Stun is useless so you don't care about Stun resist.


Correction: stunning dreadknights in the highest turn is actually a big concern.

Khornette wrote:
With a little luck BRD can go a long way over BLM or MNK DPS.


Correction: BRD DPS is actually right beside MNK and BLM.

Khornette wrote:
You don't believe that luck would push BRD dps over BLM or MNK, especially in T4?


Correction: There is no other job that can push higher AoE DPS than BLM at this given time, making turn 4 a trivial case for comparing DPS considering BLM DPS is quite inflated due to the AoE nature of turn 4.

Khornette in regards to turn 4:
Khornette wrote:
Don't forget that Venomous Shot can be applied to multiple target, hence it is no. target x times more likely to crit, more likely to get Bloodletter, more like to get free DPS. Barrage extra hit will also crit if the first hit crit.


Again, turn 4 is not single-target intensive but AoE intensive. Citing skills like barrage from a BRD that focus on single target in an AoE-based turn is nonsense.

Khornette wrote:
RD DPS can be said that it is dependent on luck, you could do very very well off compared to others or you could do adequately, because unlike other job BRD crit benefit don't stop at the crit...


Correction: BLM DPS is just as dependent on luck with thundercloud and firestarter. More so than BRD, actually, because we don't crit as often and cannot rely on our crit to carry our damage should RNG decide to give 0 TC procs throughout an entire fight.

Khornette wrote:
Because rotation isn't something strictly followed. There are many many times as Melee you don't get to do your next combo in the rotation because you need to move out of AoE and it ruins your positioning


Correction: every class in this game has a set rotation: strictly followed or not. What you just described was a situation where you could not finish your rotation. What would happen after you missed the opportunity to finish your rotation would be to restart your rotation...implying that rotation is something you strictly follow.

Khornette wrote:
you play BLM, you don't require positioning


Correction: Any time there is AoE involved, single-targeted attacks, or movement of any kind, BLM is subjected to the same treatment as melee with only thunder DoT ticking on the boss and possible firestarter or thundercloud procs that had not been used up prior to movement. Astral fire lasts only a set amount of time similar to greased lightning. If it falls off, there will be time taken to ramp damage back up.

Khornette wrote:
You know why you do the left side on T2, because it's to accomodate the guess what, Melee


Correction: Left path is often decided based on group composition. If you have more physical DPS than magic DPS, left is a wiser choice. If your group has no problem dealing with Allagan rot, left is an easier choice. No accommodation is done for melee as BRDs also use physical DPS.

Quote=Khornette assuming the MNK only get 1 LB3 for his parse (20,000 dmg min for an all Relic+1 party)

Correction and false assumption: LogRep was configured to not include LB damage. FFXIVApp also excludes LB damage.

Quote=Khornette Melees are not desirable in Coil

Postulate: You would expect to see no one playing MNK or DRG and no T5 groups with MNK or DRG.

Actual reality: There are plenty with both classes and they do just fine.

New postulate: You are the problem: not melee DPS.

Quote=Khornette Unlike you, I've played a whole lot different jobs

Correction: I currently have 5 jobs at 50, two of which I raid with (BLM and SCH): all different roles except for SMN and BLM.

Quote=Khornette Just FYI, Crono has 263.7 DPS while singing song

Correction: Crono is not designated to sing any song for turn 5. If he is, it would be foe requiem for the AoE LB2/3 on snake phase where DPS is halted for 3-4 seconds in a 13 minute fight. I thought you had every job at 50 and had a relic for each? Surely the cast time of foe requiem would be known to you. Out of a fight with 780 seconds in it, 4 (max) of those are spent singing = 0.5% of the time.

Edited, Dec 14th 2013 9:23am by HitomeOfBismarck
#64 Dec 14 2013 at 7:48 AM Rating: Default
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
snipped


http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1qxgmi/coil_of_bahamut_solo_tank_moogle/

No Melee. No Melee LB2/3. No Stun. Not even second tank to stun. Your whole argument falling apart. Show me a T1-5 clear pt setup with all Melee, kay? Heck, most party setup has ONE melee speaks volume about whether or not Melee are desirable right now.

Also, I stand corrected regarding the flat 10% dmg bonus, because that's what people told me and I came to accept that it is not just the animation change that supposedly boost the dps for melee (read, melee, not just DRG).

Also, I have done Coil with PLD and BRD, unlike you.

And to finish this off

Go on, please give your explanation why Melee is getting 10% DPS increased overall in 2.1 and why BRD is getting some cross-class ability taken away.

As much as you would like to theorise about your superiority, the facts are very very very very disagreeable with YOU. Oh, don't forget that people used to argue that WAR was fine too, with lots of other people think WAR are not fine. And guess what? WAR is getting buffed in the tanking department.

Is it really that hard to get through to you that MELEE DPS ARE NOT FINE, HENCE SE IS BUFFING IT? And here I thought since you citing this and that research, you would probably understand something as simple as that.

Edited, Dec 14th 2013 8:57am by Khornette
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#65 Dec 14 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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You can also solo heal turn 1-4...but that's aside the point. LB 1/2/3 in turn 4 is pretty useful for keeping your DPS in check speed wise. Melee DPS is pretty useful in all turns if they're smart and know their job, it's as simple as that.

They're boosting Melee DPS because BLM outparses everyone by huge margins because of their design and infinite MP. Everyone else is tied to TP which is finite because Yoshi felt letting us have our Store TP or other means of TP management would stress the playerbase and got rid of it.
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#66 Dec 14 2013 at 4:36 PM Rating: Default
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Theonehio wrote:
You can also solo heal turn 1-4...but that's aside the point. LB 1/2/3 in turn 4 is pretty useful for keeping your DPS in check speed wise. Melee DPS is pretty useful in all turns if they're smart and know their job, it's as simple as that.

They're boosting Melee DPS because BLM outparses everyone by huge margins because of their design and infinite MP. Everyone else is tied to TP which is finite because Yoshi felt letting us have our Store TP or other means of TP management would stress the playerbase and got rid of it.


We are talking solely about Turn 5 in these arguments, are we not? Or at least that's HitomeofBismarck's whole argument. The link I post they cleared T5 without any Melee nor Stun. And that, is HitomeofBismarck entirety of arguement. Oh we need to stun Dreadnight, oh we need Melee LB2/3, oh we need this and that.

Also according to HitomeofBismarck's parse MNK come out on top (because one parse must be the entire truth of the universe, nevermind that it does not show the entirety of what's going on behind the scene, were the players really that comparable to each other in term of gear, skill, luck i.e crit hit frequency RNG god, test environment controlled etc. E.g. the huge difference in term of total dmg done and DPS between the two BRD in the parse with him claiming they do not sing any songs, or only Foe Requiem in down time. Even if one singing Mana Song the entirety of 13 minutes and we not this is absolutely not true due to limited MP Pool of BRD this still does not explain the huge difference). And not to mention they are fixing the bug that give BLM slight advantage on DPS (notice slight, because every parse ever shown showing BLM does not outparses everyone by any mean of huge margins). If anything I do not call less than 10% outparse is a huge margin considering the BRD did sing Foe Requiem (10% increase) after the initial round of denial that they did not as he claimed.

And also we are ignoring the glaring fact that most party setup has one Melee DPS and 3 ranged DPS.

Edited, Dec 14th 2013 5:40pm by Khornette
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#67 Dec 14 2013 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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I'm surprised you came back: especially after the patch notes were revealed. Smiley: lol

My argument was never that you need something but that your statement was incorrect and your exaggeration of melee's current state is just that: an exaggeration.

You have some pretty poor reading skills. No one said both BRDs did not sing anything. In fact, I told you Crono sung foe requiem for snakes. Me telling you this, however, makes no sense since you have no idea what snakes I'm referring to. If MP ever dips low, Bk would sing ballad. For that particular attempt, it never did. Over the course of 13 minutes, soul voice + foe requiem was used twice: once for AoE LB + snake burn and the second for the last phase. You can easily look all of the DPS that were in that group up and figure out what gear level they're sitting at (unlike you who has yet to post a Lodestone character).

Khornette wrote:
The link I post they cleared T5 without any Melee nor Stun.


Speaking of poor reading skills, you apparently have trouble reading your own links:

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1qxgmi/coil_of_bahamut_solo_tank_moogle/
Quote:
Turn 5. http://imgur.com/33GBjUg tank picks everything and stuns dreadnight


You would think someone who suffers from such harsh rejection from PUG coil groups and also claims he out damages other classes on a frequent basis would have some sort of parsed results to back this up. Let's see some parses where you out damage BLMs but are out DPS'd by BRDs by a large margin. Go on: I'll wait.

Khornette wrote:
please give your explanation why Melee is getting 10% DPS increased overall in 2.1 and why BRD is getting some cross-class ability taken away.


Which cross class ability was taken away again...?

You really don't have anything left to stand on. BRD received two nerfs to two cross class abilities, lowering each by 10% while you also received a nerf to one of your cross class abilities in the same manner (just like MNK did with blood for blood). So BRD retains all of its CDs but two of them do slightly less damage while you retain all of yours but one of yours does slightly less damage as well.

To encourage people to not stack jobs, they added a slower LB gauge buildup if two or more of a particular job are present.

So apparently SE agrees that BRD DPS is fine and you were pretty much wrong.

I'm sure you'll continue to whine about how bad melee DPS have it, though. Smiley: rolleyes But, while you're busy whining, there will be plenty of melee DPS contributing to coil groups, amused by your stories of inferiority. I know I am at least.

Edit: Make sure to refute post #63 when you get a chance. Quite a few errors that you need to answer for.

Edited, Dec 14th 2013 6:39pm by HitomeOfBismarck
#68 Dec 14 2013 at 5:39 PM Rating: Default
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Your calculations are hilarious considering it's a 13 minute fight. No ballad was used, foe requiem was used when no targets were out. There are two BRDs..maybe one is doing the singing while the other is doing the DPSing which is why one appears to doing less DPS. No?


No Ballad was used, hmm? Even if one is doing all the singing (-20% dmg) and consider that Ballad can not be kept up the whole 13 mins (your BRD must have unlimited MP), the difference between the two BRD DPS/DMG is HUGE, more like 30% than 20%. That bring us back to the point: nevermind that it does not show the entirety of what's going on behind the scene, were the players really that comparable to each other in term of gear, skill, luck i.e crit hit frequency RNG god, test environment controlled etc. Your Parse does not show anything, if at all. We don't know what's behind the scene. So if I show a BRD parse of 300 DPS, what do you say, hmm? There are many many many things that can affect a Parse, get real.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Which cross class ability was taken away again...?

You really don't have anything left to stand on. BRD received two nerfs to two cross class abilities, lowering each by 10% while you also received a nerf to one of your cross class abilities in the same manner (just like MNK did with blood for blood). To encourage people to not stack jobs, they added a slower LB gauge buildup if two or more of a particular job are present.


There, you answered your own question. The cross-class skill removed was people's assumption from Letter of Producer X, BRD indeed get the nerf on two skills. MNK on the other hand get buff from Grease Lightning to nullify that entirely, with extra potency on many attack skills to boot.

Go on, please give your explanation why Melee is getting 10% DPS increased overall in 2.1

Even after the patch note (note all the increased potency of Melee skills and prolong duration), what's your explanation? Hmm? Or how SE is changing LB gauge accumulation speed to discourage job stacking (BRD, BRD, BRD, more BRD, or do you honestly believe people were stacking Melee) is all because of how bad I am. Wow, just wow. What job did your party stack on DPS again? BRD Classic!

Yea, keep pretending I'm bad, and that's because I'm so bad SE is changing stuff to my taste.

You know what, you are classic man. You kept trying to prove that Melee do not get rejection prior to the patch and BRD are weak, and your party composition say it all. ONE Melee, two BRD and one BLM.

Yea, my mistake on tank stun Dreadknight on T5. Wait, didn't you say Melee is needed to stun Dreadknight? Oops.

Edited, Dec 14th 2013 6:45pm by Khornette
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#69 Dec 14 2013 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Basic math (and playing BRD at level 50 for longer than 2 minutes) would enable you to understand natural MP regeneration but it seems you cannot do said math and have not really played BRD. My provided data was just an example. Your provided data was...wait: you don't have any provided data.

I'm done discussing this with you. You at least provided the melee in my FC with a few laughs. Grats on SCH, by the way! Do you have a relic for it as well? Smiley: lol
#70 Dec 14 2013 at 5:49 PM Rating: Default
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Basic math (and playing BRD at level 50 for longer than 2 minutes) would enable you to understand natural MP regeneration but it seems you cannot do said math and have not really played BRD. My provided data was just an example. Your provided data was...wait: you don't have any provided data.

I'm done discussing this with you. You at least provided the melee in my FC with a few laughs. Grats on SCH, by the way! Do you have a relic for it as well? Smiley: lol


And you think Ballad can sustain 13 mins? Ask your BRD, he would have used it at least twice if not three times, with wait inbetween to recharge MP. Even with Ballad + natural MP regen the Ballad sucks more MP than BRD can regen. But then again, you didn't play BRD my bad. I've done BRD on T1 and T2, thank you very much.

I'm done discussing this with you. You at least provided hundred of thousands melee on the global scale a few good laughs, especially Yoshida himself. Guess he made the adjustments buff to Melee for kicks, he he he. Oh man, classic, Melee is very popular pre-patch and BRD is unpopular, not wanted. Yes I do have Relic for SCH.

EDIT:
2 mins 15 seconds to sustain Ballad with 1965 MP. Bravo, your BRD has officially receive the title of "unlimited MP hoarder". Teach me your secret to having so much MP when none of the BRD gear give PIE? It also took 2 mins 30 seconds ish to fully regen MP after Ballad.

Edited, Dec 14th 2013 7:00pm by Khornette
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