Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6
Reply To Thread

This kind of behavior from a level 50 tank? Seriously?Follow

#1 Sep 11 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
2,675 posts
By the time someone hits level 50 they should have some slightest clue as to how to play their job right?

Apparently leveling as a tank in this game is so ridiculously easy that some people can't be bothered to learn some of the simpler mechanics. I just had to leave three level 50 dungeons in a row because each tank was so entirely clueless it was a wonder they had made it out of their very first dungeon.

Marking an enemy should be a simple matter right? Each and every time none of these people could be bothered to toss out even a single mark on their focused target. I ended up having to assume the initial target they pulled each time was their focus and half of the time they would suddenly switch targets a few seconds in and the mob starts running after whichever DD had started to build the most hate.

That brings us into afk tanking. In what world is this considered even slightly appropriate? Each time I or another DD would end up on the wrong mob and pull hate the tank wouldn't budge an inch. At first I figure that they're just focused on the other mob but then when that one too goes running after someone each tank was left staring off into space while everyone else is kiting around the room or spamming cures for the next minute or two until the tank realized there was nothing in front of them anymore.

SE seriously needs to look at the balance of this game and how easily tank jobs are getting pushed along that people can get as far as they have without having a clue or even really caring about how they're playing.
#2 Sep 11 2013 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
**
337 posts
Maybe you should politely give them some pointers. I've suggested marking to certain tanks and sometimes they didn't even know they could.

Don't expect a PS3 player to use a whole bunch of marks though. Maybe just one mark for what they're currently attacking. They're much more limited in button space.
____________________________
FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn
Lucas Nox on Midgardsormr
#3 Sep 11 2013 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
Worst. Title. Ever!
*****
16,851 posts
LucasNox wrote:
Maybe you should politely give them some pointers. I've suggested marking to certain tanks and sometimes they didn't even know they could.

Don't expect a PS3 player to use a whole bunch of marks though. Maybe just one mark for what they're currently attacking. They're much more limited in button space.


On the controller if you press "X" on the 360 controller (or... Square? for the PS3) while targeting an NPC/PC/Player it brings up the Marking menu, then just select the mark you want. It's quick and easily done while you are gathering for a large enough group that needs it.

I wouldn't assume everyone knows about the marking though, I'd actually suspect that more of the population does not know about it than those that do. Took me a few runs to figure out it could be done, and only then after I saw someone do it and went looking. And then it took me a little while to discover that I could quickly bring up the marking menu with the controller without having to go through the menus.
____________________________
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
#4reptiletim, Posted: Sep 11 2013 at 12:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) With as many people that wanted this game to be FFXI-2 it wouldnt surprise me at all if they think they can afk tank in this game like they did in FFXI.
#5 Sep 11 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Default
7 posts
PS3 world problems.

this is why I don't MMO on consoles.
I will give that 1 mark is better than 0.
I'm sure a ps3 player could at least make a Macro that could mark 2-3 mobs.

@OP
Did the tank(s) use Flash? Few dungeon runs I've been in (Haukke Manor) the tank doesn't use Flash..
#6 Sep 11 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
2,675 posts
LucasNox wrote:
Maybe you should politely give them some pointers. I've suggested marking to certain tanks and sometimes they didn't even know they could.

Don't expect a PS3 player to use a whole bunch of marks though. Maybe just one mark for what they're currently attacking. They're much more limited in button space.


At level 50 this isn't really a "pointers" kind of thing.

If you're introducing a tank to the signs/marks menu or suggesting that they actually look at the screen while playing at level 50 you should first be questioning whether or not their parent/guardian knows they're playing or if they should be up with a head injury quite that severs.
#7 Sep 11 2013 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
**
337 posts
PlanckZero wrote:
LucasNox wrote:
Maybe you should politely give them some pointers. I've suggested marking to certain tanks and sometimes they didn't even know they could.

Don't expect a PS3 player to use a whole bunch of marks though. Maybe just one mark for what they're currently attacking. They're much more limited in button space.


At level 50 this isn't really a "pointers" kind of thing.


Maybe, but keep in mind (fault them or not) many level 50 players barely did any content which required their attention. As a tank in FATE grinding parties, you certainly don't have to mark... and usually you don't even have to tank.
____________________________
FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn
Lucas Nox on Midgardsormr
#8 Sep 11 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
*
249 posts
I have more issues with tanks and healers ragequitting as soon as a df starts because we arent relic+1 geared out for an af leveld dungeon.
#9 Sep 11 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
Needs More Smut
******
21,262 posts
We've had to give a "tanking 101" lesson to new tanks in Sastasha, since that's the first dungeon and most people's first attempt at playing with others.

I think markers is more of a tanking 201 thing, however. Just getting newbie tanks to hold hate at all is a big accomplishment.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#10 Sep 11 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
*
197 posts
TirithRR wrote:
Don't expect a PS3 player to use a whole bunch of marks though. Maybe just one mark for what they're currently attacking. They're much more limited in button space.



One of my good friends tanks on a PS3, he marks every mob (1,2,3) plus ones that need to be CC and he does it quite effectively, so I really doubt the problem is them being a PS3 player, more likely they are just lazy or not that smart to begin with.
____________________________
Character Name: Jeskradha Duskmantle
Free Company - The Kraken Club <ZAM>
Server: Ultros
#11 Sep 11 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
**
337 posts
Jeskradha wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Don't expect a PS3 player to use a whole bunch of marks though. Maybe just one mark for what they're currently attacking. They're much more limited in button space.



One of my good friends tanks on a PS3, he marks every mob (1,2,3) plus ones that need to be CC and he does it quite effectively, so I really doubt the problem is them being a PS3 player, more likely they are just lazy or not that smart to begin with.


I'm not saying it's impossible - I use a 360 controller on PC and I use marks at all times. I just wouldn't expect it from random folk, because things are crammed on the crossbars.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 2:29pm by LucasNox
____________________________
FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn
Lucas Nox on Midgardsormr
#12 Sep 11 2013 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
Sage
*
204 posts
jetah wrote:
Did the tank(s) use Flash? Few dungeon runs I've been in (Haukke Manor) the tank doesn't use Flash..


Flash is not even required to keep hate at the kind of level the OP is talking about. Against multiple mobs yes, but single mobs its only better to use flash purely for the blind debuff.

As for people talking about marking targets, i use a controller on the PC so i have the same issue with crossbar space. You just have to optimize macros to have multiple functions, like Tomahawk/Heavy swing in the same macro etc. I have 1 space left for marking on my bar, but the simple way around this is to mark the 1st mob to kill, when its dead reapply the same mark to another mob. This takes less than a second and if you don't do this its because your either lazy or don't care about making the run go smoothly.

I have seen alot of bad tanks (Only in 8 mans, because im a tank myself). The reason for this is because alot of people are new to this game and rushed their way to lvl 50 through fates. Eventually they will get better, you just got to give them time and afew tips along the way.
____________________________
WoW: 80 Hunter - 80 Death Knight - 80 Paladin
FFXI: 75 Dragoon - 75 Samurai - 75 Paladin
FFXIV 1: 50 War/Pld/Brd/Mnk/Drg/Smn/Sch/Bsm
FFXIV 2: 50 Thm/Cnj
Tera: 60 Slayer - 60 Lancer - 60 Berserker
GW2: 80 Twilight Guardian
#13 Sep 11 2013 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,775 posts
PlanckZero wrote:
By the time someone hits level 50 they should have some slightest clue as to how to play their job right?

Apparently leveling as a tank in this game is so ridiculously easy that some people can't be bothered to learn some of the simpler mechanics. I just had to leave three level 50 dungeons in a row because each tank was so entirely clueless it was a wonder they had made it out of their very first dungeon.

Marking an enemy should be a simple matter right? Each and every time none of these people could be bothered to toss out even a single mark on their focused target. I ended up having to assume the initial target they pulled each time was their focus and half of the time they would suddenly switch targets a few seconds in and the mob starts running after whichever DD had started to build the most hate.

That brings us into afk tanking. In what world is this considered even slightly appropriate? Each time I or another DD would end up on the wrong mob and pull hate the tank wouldn't budge an inch. At first I figure that they're just focused on the other mob but then when that one too goes running after someone each tank was left staring off into space while everyone else is kiting around the room or spamming cures for the next minute or two until the tank realized there was nothing in front of them anymore.

SE seriously needs to look at the balance of this game and how easily tank jobs are getting pushed along that people can get as far as they have without having a clue or even really caring about how they're playing.


You make some good points, but part of your rant isn't realistic. Players can level their own way which means maybe they barely tanked dungeons. All you need is quest XP and fates. The only dungeons would be for story mode and that's where I have to agree somewhat. On the other hand, I don't see how marking though the early dungeons is that big of a deal. Most of the trash mobs can be tanked by a DD anyways. I really don't want to hear what's most efficient in your mind either. The bottom line is people leveled differently than you and their experiences are different too. You have expectations of what a tank must do. Well in my opinion, all they must do is hold hate. All marking does is make it easier for a DD to transfer from mob to mob. If a tank says left to right order, you don't need to mark a **** thing.

Why should the tank budge an inch if you attack the wrong mob? Flash or other AoE tools will bring it back to them if you've got off the target. Do you watch the HP bar at all? If I'm not sure what mob to attack, I don't use a WS until the bar drops by a hair. You can blame the tanks all you want, but I think people prefer the marks so they can be lazy. By lazy, I mean not looking out for adds or doing anything else except killing 1, 2, 3, etc. Communication is important and that's where you're right. It doesn't seem like you cared to communicate though. You said this tank sucks and left leaving more people to deal with another rotten egg that doesn't communicate.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 1:43pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#14 Sep 11 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
Worst. Title. Ever!
*****
16,851 posts
Jeskradha wrote:
LucasNox wrote:
Don't expect a PS3 player to use a whole bunch of marks though. Maybe just one mark for what they're currently attacking. They're much more limited in button space.



One of my good friends tanks on a PS3, he marks every mob (1,2,3) plus ones that need to be CC and he does it quite effectively, so I really doubt the problem is them being a PS3 player, more likely they are just lazy or not that smart to begin with.


I did not say that, LucasNox did. Please edit your post :)

I was explaining how it was not hard to use marks on the PS3 using the controller since there is a shortcut premapped.
____________________________
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
#15 Sep 11 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,214 posts
My only complaint about the Marking thing is two fold... (Yeah, I know I did that).

Marking is much slower, and cumbersome in dungeons than assisting. Having been required to do dynamis as a kiter/dd in 11, we knew to have our /assist macros created. And this prevented mis-targets and also stopped people from attacking before the tank.

This also works well in the fact that as tank, I switch to the next mob before the last one is dead. Marking requires that I attempt to find the one I marked as #2 and attack it. And while there are "Cute" dds that think they are going to get a leg up on parsing (yeah, they are back already in full force), so they attack the mob with full health before I even have time to properly start hitting.

With 2-3 mob groups, from a tanking perspective (and tanks have ALOT to think about), Marking is HIGHLY error prone, slows down combat, and results in frustration (you are not marking fast enough, we should be attacking mob x first), or worse, DDs just decide to ignore marks, or go in and attack the moment you mark the first mob.

So, my question is, for those who are so obsessed with tanks marking trash mobs, why are you not using /assist? This solves your problem and speeds up the fighting. This allows the mage to easily sleep adds (/assist then off-target and sleep, you will return to the main target, then off-target and sleep).

Which is basically how I mark, and I do play on a controller. Since I haven't made it to 50 yet, I haven't bothered setting up any of my macros, as I don't have access to 1/2 my abilities, and haven't settled into which abilities work best with what...

My only real thought is, if your tank doesn't mark /assist... If your tank does mark... /assist anyways. No problems, and everyone is happy and fighting the same thing...
#16 Sep 11 2013 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
Worst. Title. Ever!
*****
16,851 posts
LucasNox wrote:
Jeskradha wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Don't expect a PS3 player to use a whole bunch of marks though. Maybe just one mark for what they're currently attacking. They're much more limited in button space.



One of my good friends tanks on a PS3, he marks every mob (1,2,3) plus ones that need to be CC and he does it quite effectively, so I really doubt the problem is them being a PS3 player, more likely they are just lazy or not that smart to begin with.


I'm not saying it's impossible - I use a 360 controller on PC and I use marks at all times. I just wouldn't expect it from random folk, because things are crammed on the crossbars.


You don't need to use the crossbar hotkeys for marking. The Marking menu has a shortcut. Press X on your controller while targeting something.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 2:46pm by TirithRR
____________________________
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
#17 Sep 11 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
**
337 posts
I know you can mark by pressing X, but it takes a bit too long for dungeon running in my opinion.
____________________________
FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn
Lucas Nox on Midgardsormr
#18 Sep 11 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,549 posts
If they are coming from FFXI they probably don't realize you can or should mark mobs.

Keep in mind FFXI fights were typically 1-1 tanking. Old school dynamis you would have off-tanks/sleep for the adds and there was no marking capability. Everyone had to know their job going in or you discussed kill order in chat. This is a very different environment/playstyle for those people.

Heck I didn't even realize my MRD was a tank until I started getting abilities that boosted enmity. I was treating it like a DRK (though I figured it out WAY before any group play.) All my bonus points are in STR :).
#19 Sep 11 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
PlanckZero wrote:
By the time someone hits level 50 they should have some slightest clue as to how to play their job right?

Marking an enemy should be a simple matter right? Each and every time none of these people could be bothered to toss out even a single mark on their focused target. I ended up having to assume the initial target they pulled each time was their focus and half of the time they would suddenly switch targets a few seconds in and the mob starts running after whichever DD had started to build the most hate.



Thank Eorzea for AOE sleep.
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#20 Sep 11 2013 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
Worst. Title. Ever!
*****
16,851 posts
LucasNox wrote:
I know you can mark by pressing X, but it takes a bit too long for dungeon running in my opinion.


Only takes a few seconds to mark a group of 3-5 enemies using the X shortcut. Once you know it's there is not much worse than click targeting and hitting a different hotkey using a mouse/kb. It's not like you'd be in a huge rush to get them all marked in 2 seconds instead of 5 seconds.
____________________________
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
#21 Sep 11 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Decent
**
589 posts
Yodabunny wrote:
If they are coming from FFXI they probably don't realize you can or should mark mobs.

Keep in mind FFXI fights were typically 1-1 tanking. Old school dynamis you would have off-tanks/sleep for the adds and there was no marking capability. Everyone had to know their job going in or you discussed kill order in chat. This is a very different environment/playstyle for those people.

Heck I didn't even realize my MRD was a tank until I started getting abilities that boosted enmity. I was treating it like a DRK (though I figured it out WAY before any group play.) All my bonus points are in STR :).


Not only the bolded part but if they are new to MMOs in general you could say the same thing. OP you had the luxsiere of playing games that let you mark mobs. Not everyone has esp those that have only played FFXI
#22 Sep 11 2013 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,166 posts
expecting people to just know things is always going to get you into to trouble, and marking is a perfect example.

very very few people you party with are going to have multiple jobs >30 at this time, and since the only person who should be throwing out marks without being asked to is the tank, exactly when would a person who only ever tanks have seen them?

I've never had a tank that wasn't marking already that also knew how to do it when I asked, and only one didn't do it after it was explained.

Did you explain to these three what they could do to make fights go smoother? If not(and your post gives no indication you did) you just showed how they got to 50 without knowing these things you think are so key to the class. The other healers and DDs they partied with, instead of pulling them aside and offering tips(assuming they even knew them), went off and complained to their FC/LS/forum-of-choice while those three just kept getting xp, slower than optimal but still some, and reached the point their at.

tl;dr never assume people know everything you know unless you just told them. In two years you can whine about someone at cap who doesn't know how to play their class optimally, not two weeks after the game's release.
____________________________
"A women almost bit off her husband's ***** while he was making pancakes in the morning." ~ Lewis black-Anticipation

A Complete History Of The Soviet Union Through The Eyes Of A Humble Worker, Arranged To The Melody Of Tetris~~http://bit.ly/aPlx8C

Miklar Lorent ~ http://odinseinherjar.guildwork.com/
#23 Sep 11 2013 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,726 posts
Instead of a hundred threads bashing tanks why dont some of you guys tank instead of complaining about them. Maybe this is why there are so few tanks out there.

Honestly if anything is going to kill this game it is having no tanks and having a duty finder that requires them.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 4:24pm by Nashred
____________________________
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
#24MitArgento, Posted: Sep 11 2013 at 2:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) theres also the ones that because they FATE grind their way to 50, when they do need to tank, they can`t do it properly.
#25 Sep 11 2013 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
**
589 posts
Nashred wrote:
Instead of a hundred threads bashing tanks why dont some of you guys tank instead of complaining about them. Maybe this is why there are so few tanks out there.

Honestly if anything is going to kill this game it is having no tanks and having a duty finder that requires them.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 4:24pm by Nashred


This is kinda my plan. I already have both tank jobs at 50 but I got those levels in 1.0. Now its a different ball game and I'm going to do each dungeon from 15 on up just to get acclimated to 2.0
#26 Sep 11 2013 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,426 posts
love those insta-pop queues on PLD...makes me almost never want to do runs on DRG...almost. Tanking is one kind of fun, and DPSing is another kind entirely.
____________________________
monk
dragoon
[ffxivsig]477065[/ffxivsig]
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 103 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (103)