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This kind of behavior from a level 50 tank? Seriously?Follow

#52 Sep 12 2013 at 1:36 AM Rating: Default
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Player a healer and having played a tank in other games I am still surprised by the stupidity of some people.

I am level 30 now and up until now I've had 1 or 2 really good tanks, had several dps that didn't understand why you attack the same target as your tank. Why stealing aggro isn't "cool" or "bada$$".
#53 Sep 12 2013 at 1:51 AM Rating: Decent
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It isn't just tanks. It is any role. Ever ran into a healer that spams medica until their mp runs out? Yeah first try being a dps instead of healer and I run into that one. Real nice.

Then there was the Arcanist with tank pet and trying to heal through dungeon even though it wasn't needed. Not to mention over pulling mobs and nearly getting everyone killed.

It isn't a tank issue, it is just a player issue. This is all very standard problems with random dungeon finders and is not going to stop anytime soon. Level 50 or not, players find ways to leech off of others to level in two days, or just did Fate Grinds. By the time they make it into a dungeon, they have no clue what they are doing or care. They just keep going until it works. If there is an issue, do try and talk to the 'bad player' and point out a flaw.

If they refuse to speak or change their playstyle even with the tips, which happens a lot, then pray we get a request to kick at some point. I hate it just as much as the next person and it is really frustrating trying to tolerate people like that for a full hour. But until we get a kick option, there is little to do other than try very hard to make them work.
#54 Sep 12 2013 at 4:13 AM Rating: Decent
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PlanckZero wrote:
I just had to leave three level 50 dungeons in a row


enough said. next thread
#55 Sep 12 2013 at 5:34 AM Rating: Good
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The Secret World had an elegant solution for informing players that they're not ready for the hard mode dungeons. All classes had to pass a solo test to qualify for the harder content. If you can't pass the tanking, dps or healing quest, it simply wouldn't let you progress to the hard mode for all dungeons.
#56 Sep 12 2013 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
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LucasNox wrote:
Jeskradha wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Don't expect a PS3 player to use a whole bunch of marks though. Maybe just one mark for what they're currently attacking. They're much more limited in button space.



One of my good friends tanks on a PS3, he marks every mob (1,2,3) plus ones that need to be CC and he does it quite effectively, so I really doubt the problem is them being a PS3 player, more likely they are just lazy or not that smart to begin with.


I'm not saying it's impossible - I use a 360 controller on PC and I use marks at all times. I just wouldn't expect it from random folk, because things are crammed on the crossbars.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 2:29pm by LucasNox


You don't need to put anything on the cross hotbar to mark. Simply target the enemy and hit X/Square (360/PS3 controller respectively) then mark, pick symbol/number; done, next... I can mark a 4 or 5 mob group in about 4 or 5 seconds. If the party can't wait that long, they don't need to be ******** when things go wrong.
#57 Sep 12 2013 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
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Ok now, I don't want to be THAT GUY. But I've done the first couple of dungeons problem free. I don't use markers. I've basically been holding hate on everything by spamming overpower aoe and occasionally switching targets to pull more hate on mobs that I'm starting to lose hate on. That way, my dds can attack whatever they want since I'm overpower aoe spamming the whole group anyways.

However, I see a flaw in my methods coming up when mages start getting sleep spells. What am I gonna DO? Also, please judge me. I think it's pretty apparent from this thread that I'm doing it wrong.
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#58 Sep 12 2013 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
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klooste8 wrote:
Ok now, I don't want to be THAT GUY. But I've done the first couple of dungeons problem free. I don't use markers. I've basically been holding hate on everything by spamming overpower aoe and occasionally switching targets to pull more hate on mobs that I'm starting to lose hate on. That way, my dds can attack whatever they want since I'm overpower aoe spamming the whole group anyways.

However, I see a flaw in my methods coming up when mages start getting sleep spells. What am I gonna DO? Also, please judge me. I think it's pretty apparent from this thread that I'm doing it wrong.


I wouldn't say you are doing it wrong, because, according to you, it's working. With that said, don't expect that to be a viable solution throughout the whole game. You will have to be adaptable. There is no 'sure way' to do anything. (After all, it would become pretty bland, were that the case). Once you get to the stage where mobs can be controlled, you should have a few more tools to make you more adaptable. You would have to be careful, not only for yourself, but for other party members, to not gather the group near any sleeped mobs, as anyone using AoE will wake them.

I'm not very familiar with Marauder strategies, as I only have that class at 20, but the generals are the same. The only group member you should be battling for hate is the healer. By allowing everyone to attack just whatever is disaster waiting to happen in later stages of the game. Mark, focus and conquer. Although not required in the beginning parts of the game, the sooner you start to practice it, the sooner you will become efficient with it for when it will be needed. Don't wait until you have to learn it to learn it. People will have expected you to already have at that point. When people are attacking different mobs, it becomes very inefficient, some of the reasons being, but not limited to:

Each individual mob takes longer to kill, thus allowing them to inflict more damage to the party during their life cycles. This, in turn, requires the healer to heal more, thus pulling more hate from the tank.

Not only are you trying to keep your healer safe and alive, but also battling your other party members for hate, which wastes resources and cooldowns that could be better used to actually eliminate the threat. Also, if they do manage to pull a mob from you, the healer is going to have to spam heals on them much more than they would you (as you are a tank and designed to take hits more effectively) which is more unwanted hate focused on the healer.

In the event something unexpected would happen, you are less likely to be able to react the way you need to, due to micromanging everyones hate, as well as your own.

In short, Hate management is a responsibility of the entire party, not just the tanks. The best tank in the world can't save an unorganized party, and vise verse with the other roles. Trying to solo in a group doesn't help anyone. Good luck. :)
#59 Sep 12 2013 at 7:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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You can't incorporate a fast, soloable and easy leveling curve and expect player levels to have any sort of meaning or correlation with group play ability. As it is, a level 50 player has no guarantee to be capable or understanding of their role in a non-solo environment when it's entirely possible, and often more efficient, to progress to level cap 100% solo.

Force group play styles and dynamics earlier into the leveling curve, or just accept that 1-49 is nothing but a glorified tutorial and a level 50 is just beginning to understand their role in a party. You really can't have both, as more than 10 years of this modern MMORPG progression design has shown us.
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#60 Sep 12 2013 at 7:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gnu wrote:
It's really acceptable for the DD to do the marking. Or the healer. Caster first is all you need to know to mark for a majority of encounters.

If you mark the mobs as DD generally the tank will follow your lead, easy way to help a player new to the tank role.


This 100X THIS!

The best group I have ever been in was with a WHM that was using her downtime to mark up the next group. It was amazing! I would look up, see the next group all marked and ready to go so I was all like "Roger that, DIE #1!" At first I was a little put off by it because "He took my job!" (South Park ref) but I soon got over it when I noticed the pace we were keeping.

I think we need to get out of the mentality that it is up to the tank to mark targets. We typically have enough on our plates and the biggest deterrent for me personally is all the DPS that can't wait 5 seconds while I mark. I get tired of even trying when I stop just short of the next group, barely get #1 up and there goes the ******* DRG... and it's always a DRG. I say if you want your targets marked, mark em your **** self!
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#61 Sep 12 2013 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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And here in lies the problem.

Really, at the end of the day, just spend a minute at the beginning of combat. Go over what your expectations are, make agreements on role responsibilities, and go have fun.

Most of the time, we I bounce into DF, it's buff and run, no one even responds to a hello...

If the healer wants to mark, discuss it. If the DD wants to mark, again discuss. If the tank wants people to /assist, so be it. But at least agree with your strat and run with it. It may mean that people need to spend a minute or two getting reconfigured, but for the love of chicken spend a minute and talk to your party.
#62 Sep 12 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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rfolkker wrote:
And here in lies the problem.

Really, at the end of the day, just spend a minute at the beginning of combat. Go over what your expectations are, make agreements on role responsibilities, and go have fun.

Most of the time, we I bounce into DF, it's buff and run, no one even responds to a hello...

If the healer wants to mark, discuss it. If the DD wants to mark, again discuss. If the tank wants people to /assist, so be it. But at least agree with your strat and run with it. It may mean that people need to spend a minute or two getting reconfigured, but for the love of chicken spend a minute and talk to your party.


BOLD MINE:

Herein lie the problem. Most groups don't want to wait a few minutes while people get their **** together. For the DPS at least, they have been in the queue for over 30mins and don't care to wait around while people figure it out. They just need to DANCE and your preacher father isn't going to stop them! It is an accomplishment to get someone to even say hello in a DF group, much less wax philosophical about the Art of War.
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#63 Sep 12 2013 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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rfolkker wrote:
And here in lies the problem.

Really, at the end of the day, just spend a minute at the beginning of combat. Go over what your expectations are, make agreements on role responsibilities, and go have fun.

Most of the time, we I bounce into DF, it's buff and run, no one even responds to a hello...

If the healer wants to mark, discuss it. If the DD wants to mark, again discuss. If the tank wants people to /assist, so be it. But at least agree with your strat and run with it. It may mean that people need to spend a minute or two getting reconfigured, but for the love of chicken spend a minute and talk to your party.


BOLD MINE:

Herein lie the problem. Most groups don't want to wait a few minutes while people get their sh*t together. For the DPS at least, they have been in the queue for over 30mins and don't care to wait around while people figure it out. They just need to DANCE and your preacher father isn't going to stop them! It is an accomplishment to get someone to even say hello in a DF group, much less wax philosophical about the Art of War.


You just popped visions of John Lithgow and Kevin Bacon in my head.

.... but then I remember John was in Dexter.... so my vison had a bathtub full of blood to.

.... thanks >.<
#64 Sep 12 2013 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I dont understand why tanks have to mark mobs when all you have to do is pay attention to the health bars? People don't even bother to watch hate bars. Not that far in yet, but there are alot more problems then tanks not marking mobs. When would I even have time to? When you have to worry about someone else rushing in and trying to pull a group.
#65 Sep 12 2013 at 8:56 AM Rating: Decent
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PlanckZero wrote:
By the time someone hits level 50 they should have some slightest clue as to how to play their job right?

Apparently leveling as a tank in this game is so ridiculously easy that some people can't be bothered to learn some of the simpler mechanics. I just had to leave three level 50 dungeons in a row because each tank was so entirely clueless it was a wonder they had made it out of their very first dungeon.

Marking an enemy should be a simple matter right? Each and every time none of these people could be bothered to toss out even a single mark on their focused target. I ended up having to assume the initial target they pulled each time was their focus and half of the time they would suddenly switch targets a few seconds in and the mob starts running after whichever DD had started to build the most hate.

That brings us into afk tanking. In what world is this considered even slightly appropriate? Each time I or another DD would end up on the wrong mob and pull hate the tank wouldn't budge an inch. At first I figure that they're just focused on the other mob but then when that one too goes running after someone each tank was left staring off into space while everyone else is kiting around the room or spamming cures for the next minute or two until the tank realized there was nothing in front of them anymore.

SE seriously needs to look at the balance of this game and how easily tank jobs are getting pushed along that people can get as far as they have without having a clue or even really caring about how they're playing.



Maybe..MAYBE, its not entirely the Tanks fault. Not marking the enemy? ok that one is his fault, kind of. A lot of the times when i tank, people dont care if i mark or not, while others would prefer it; heck i have even been told to not mark things in a couple of groups (but that went really well surprisingly) When I do mark targets, its not at all for my benefit for the other people.

If they dont mark targets, and you would like them to mark atleast their primary target. ASK THEM, if you expect them to then its your fault.

Also, why they heck are you rushing into the fight before letting them build hate for a few seconds? I hate it when DD are too gung ho and start attacking right away. Its easier on the tanks to get some hate and then have the DD start attacking, Dont make it a tug of war of hate if you dont need to. You might not know it, but you can change the HP bars of the enemies to show only the ones that are not at 100% HP, I found that when I am DD'ing i can use that as an indicator for when tanks dont mark.

To be completely honest, if i am running a dungeon and a DD gets hate and then starts to run around like an idiot, instead of taking a couple of hits, i am more likely to let them die. not because I want to, but because i am too focused on keeping the hate of the other targets, and my main one. if you couldnt have bothered to pay attention to what you and i were attacking (which is really what a DD only needs to do, save for boss fights) then i cant be bothered to run around after you and the mob to try and get the hate you built up on your own, down.


I think at level 50 you should be a good enough DD to recognize what to attack, and how much hate your pulling. the tank might have some faults sure, but you are exacerbating it.
#66 Sep 12 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe after 30+ levels of marking and no one following them they got tired of wasting their time?

Every run is the same... they all target their own enemy to kill and it is always not the one I marked. Once group was able to kill the marked one last several times.
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#67Llester, Posted: Sep 12 2013 at 8:59 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) the game forces party play before level 20. you can't avoid it unless you don't care about the main story, so it's really the player's fault if they suck at 50.
#68 Sep 12 2013 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Llester wrote:
Whales wrote:
You can't incorporate a fast, soloable and easy leveling curve and expect player levels to have any sort of meaning or correlation with group play ability. As it is, a level 50 player has no guarantee to be capable or understanding of their role in a non-solo environment when it's entirely possible, and often more efficient, to progress to level cap 100% solo.

Force group play styles and dynamics earlier into the leveling curve, or just accept that 1-49 is nothing but a glorified tutorial and a level 50 is just beginning to understand their role in a party. You really can't have both, as more than 10 years of this modern MMORPG progression design has shown us.


the game forces party play before level 20. you can't avoid it unless you don't care about the main story, so it's really the player's fault if they suck at 50.


It most certainly does not, especially on the second class and beyond. In fact I could level a tank right now to 50 without ever participating in or using group mechanics. The most optimal and efficient path for hitting 'endgame' supports this, and thus what the majority of players are going to do, as a decade of such modern MMORPG game design has shown us.

I don't like it any more than you, but if you want players to understand their class as part of the leveling achievement, you're going to have to make the leveling process a bit more of a challenge and group requirement starting at the early levels.

You can't have easy, fast, solo levels AND comprehensive class grouping understanding simply by level achievement alone.
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#69 Sep 12 2013 at 10:28 AM Rating: Default
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Whales wrote:
Llester wrote:
Whales wrote:
You can't incorporate a fast, soloable and easy leveling curve and expect player levels to have any sort of meaning or correlation with group play ability. As it is, a level 50 player has no guarantee to be capable or understanding of their role in a non-solo environment when it's entirely possible, and often more efficient, to progress to level cap 100% solo.

Force group play styles and dynamics earlier into the leveling curve, or just accept that 1-49 is nothing but a glorified tutorial and a level 50 is just beginning to understand their role in a party. You really can't have both, as more than 10 years of this modern MMORPG progression design has shown us.


the game forces party play before level 20. you can't avoid it unless you don't care about the main story, so it's really the player's fault if they suck at 50.


It most certainly does not, especially on the second class and beyond. In fact I could level a tank right now to 50 without ever participating in or using group mechanics. The most optimal and efficient path for hitting 'endgame' supports this, and thus what the majority of players are going to do, as a decade of such modern MMORPG game design has shown us.

I don't like it any more than you, but if you want players to understand their class as part of the leveling achievement, you're going to have to make the leveling process a bit more of a challenge and group requirement starting at the early levels.

You can't have easy, fast, solo levels AND comprehensive class grouping understanding simply by level achievement alone.


it does for anyone doing the main story which is most people. regardless, its silly to blame the game design for people not wanting to be good at their roles.
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#70 Sep 12 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Only on the first job though. You only have to do the main story dungeons exactly once. Any subsequent jobs can just fate surf the entire way to 50.
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#71 Sep 12 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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klooste8 wrote:
Ok now, I don't want to be THAT GUY. But I've done the first couple of dungeons problem free. I don't use markers. I've basically been holding hate on everything by spamming overpower aoe and occasionally switching targets to pull more hate on mobs that I'm starting to lose hate on. That way, my dds can attack whatever they want since I'm overpower aoe spamming the whole group anyways.

However, I see a flaw in my methods coming up when mages start getting sleep spells. What am I gonna DO? Also, please judge me. I think it's pretty apparent from this thread that I'm doing it wrong.


It's not that you can't hold threat, it just basic game mechanics and is much more stressful on the party to do it the other way.

If all DD are attacking one target then it dies quicker obviously, then that is one less mob doing damage to the tank so the healer isn't having to spam cures to keep him up and allows some type of mana conservation. If DD's are attacking all different mobs then it takes longer to kill them, longer dungeon runs, etc. Also, as WAR we are very dependent on TP so there is a good chance if it goes on to long you run out of TP then lose your primary AOE ability.

Lower level dungeons, not that big of a deal. But on higher level dungeons where CC is required and even the trash hits like a Mack truck then you are going to run into problems. Best to help instruct every party you are in (in a nice way) when it is not required than running into the problem when it is needed and getting people rage quitting the group cause people are dying on trash mobs.

I don't use controller so I am not sure how limited on space you guys are but I am telling you, macros are your friend in this scenario.
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#72 Sep 12 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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it does for anyone doing the main story which is most people. regardless, its silly to blame the game design for people not wanting to be good at their roles.

Fates are too good, and certain high level fates are being exploited to milk thousands of exp. It is not silly to blame game design for a problem that owes itself at least half due to game design.
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#73 Sep 12 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Default
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I main tank for our FC and I never mark. Even with a SMN with Relic and a MNK with relic dpsing different mobs I rarely lose threat as a paladin. Letting the DPS AoE and multi-DoT kills mobs faster and makes it easier. You don't need to mark at all if you know what you're doing, it's just a way to cover a short coming in your tanking ability. If they pull threat I just stun the mob so it'll die before it actually has a chance to hit them.
#74 Sep 12 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
Only on the first job though. You only have to do the main story dungeons exactly once. Any subsequent jobs can just fate surf the entire way to 50.


sure, but that's entirely a player decision. The game gives us options. Maybe some players need more exp incentive from dungeons. For me, just the thought of spamming FATEs endlessly makes me want to run dungeons all the more.
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#75 Sep 12 2013 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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Deadgye wrote:
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it does for anyone doing the main story which is most people. regardless, its silly to blame the game design for people not wanting to be good at their roles.

Fates are too good, and certain high level fates are being exploited to milk thousands of exp. It is not silly to blame game design for a problem that owes itself at least half due to game design.


more than thousands. and i still don't feel the need to narrow my gameplay to only FATEs. I mean, i see the other side of this, but I just don't see the fun in pursuing the most efficient exp/hour at the cost of fun. i'm well aware that i'm in the minority on this.

i also don't really see the problem with people leveling exclusively through fates, which means I also don't really care about every once in awhile running into a person who sucks at their job.

Edited, Sep 12th 2013 3:10pm by Llester
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#76 Sep 12 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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After clearing story mode garuda, and knowing that the hard mode primal battles will be harder.. I sure as **** don't want to deal with having someone in my party who got their class up to 50 through only FATEs.
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#77 Sep 12 2013 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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i don't particularly either, but that's why i'll be doing that stuff with friends. And if/when i do run into someone who sucks, eh. Its not the end of the world.

edit: I'm also in the midst of an extremely mind-numbing work day, making it difficult for me to give more than 1 **** about anything at the moment. I'm sure once the weekend hits, i'll be much more passionate about the subject.

Edited, Sep 12th 2013 3:32pm by Llester
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#78 Sep 13 2013 at 6:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm still fairly new to the tank class, but one thing that really helped my situational awareness was zooming out. Seems simple, but when I was level 20ish I was still zoomed in pretty close - one enemy would take up my entire screen and I couldn't see when one stripped off to attack my healer. Made a world of difference.
#79 Sep 14 2013 at 2:14 AM Rating: Good
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This

Azoria wrote:


I think we need to get out of the mentality that it is up to the tank to mark targets. We typically have enough on our plates and the biggest deterrent for me personally is all the DPS that can't wait 5 seconds while I mark. I get tired of even trying when I stop just short of the next group, barely get #1 up and there goes the @#%^ing DRG... and it's always a DRG. I say if you want your targets marked, mark em your **** self!


and this!

Pinkunderwear wrote:
I dont understand why tanks have to mark mobs when all you have to do is pay attention to the health bars? People don't even bother to watch hate bars. Not that far in yet, but there are alot more problems then tanks not marking mobs. When would I even have time to? When you have to worry about someone else rushing in and trying to pull a group.


I agree with both of these points 100%

We have a lot to do, however, I do like the idea of at least marking the one you're currently attacking with a #1 and then clicking the #1 once more when you move onto the next enemy, since, a lot of the time, many DPS will rush into the fight w/o giving us the chance to setup mobs. I had this happen to me on one of the guildhest. I couldn't even get out an abbreviated "rdy?" before the di'ckhead DPS went ahead of me, and when I asked if he was tanking, he gave me the most derp-tastic answer; "I don't want to wait 20 minutes for you to start."
If you have this type of mentality while playing on an MMO with other people, please GTFO since people like you ruin the experience for others. I can't do my job when the DPS doesn't want to pay attention or cooperate with party members. Also, this trend with finger pointing tanks (and not looking at what you guys may be doing wrong) is getting old. Soon enough there will be less and less of us, and because of that there will be longer wait times for people using DF.


Edited, Sep 14th 2013 4:23am by OhimeKowai
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#80 Sep 14 2013 at 3:19 AM Rating: Default
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I couldn't disagree more. You say that the DPS doesn't wait for you to 'setup' mobs. The fact that you feel you need to prep pulls makes it clear that you believe you should be controlling pulls so why wouldn't you be in charge of marking?

Maybe it's the fact that I play SC2, but it takes almost no time to 'setup' your pull marking mobs for damage and/or cc. Tanking is simple and straightforward.

Step 1) Get aggro
Step 2) Mitigate damage
Step 3) Maintain aggro

If there are less and less tanks in queue it'll be because they find out that they don't enjoy it or they're bad at it, not because a DPS didn't wait for them to mark because they're slow.
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#81 Sep 14 2013 at 3:55 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. You say that the DPS doesn't wait for you to 'setup' mobs. The fact that you feel you need to prep pulls makes it clear that you believe you should be controlling pulls so why wouldn't you be in charge of marking?

If there are less and less tanks in queue it'll be because they find out that they don't enjoy it or they're bad at it, not because a DPS didn't wait for them to mark because they're slow.


You're misconstruing what I said. I made it perfectly clear why it's difficult to set mobs up with my example. It's not that I dont set them up, it's that I'm not given time to do so (when setting up is needed).

While many will stop playing tank because they aren't good at it or don't want to garner that much responsibility, people who don't work together with the tank and those who don't have any patience while doing their dungeon run are perhaps contributing to tanks not "enjoying" their class as opposed to simply being bored with it.
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#82 Sep 14 2013 at 3:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
If there are less and less tanks in queue it'll be because they find out that they don't enjoy it or they're bad at it, not because a DPS didn't wait for them to mark because they're slow.

You're forgetting the most common reason why there are less and less tanks/healers around. The blatant emotional abuse from 12 year old damage dealers who think they know everything but dont level a tank or healing job themselves.
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#83 Sep 14 2013 at 4:03 AM Rating: Good
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KojiroSoma wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
If there are less and less tanks in queue it'll be because they find out that they don't enjoy it or they're bad at it, not because a DPS didn't wait for them to mark because they're slow.

You're forgetting the most common reason why there are less and less tanks/healers around. The blatant emotional abuse from 12 year old damage dealers who think they know everything but dont level a tank or healing job themselves.


Short and to the point ;)
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#84 Sep 14 2013 at 4:23 AM Rating: Default
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OhimeKowai wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. You say that the DPS doesn't wait for you to 'setup' mobs. The fact that you feel you need to prep pulls makes it clear that you believe you should be controlling pulls so why wouldn't you be in charge of marking?

If there are less and less tanks in queue it'll be because they find out that they don't enjoy it or they're bad at it, not because a DPS didn't wait for them to mark because they're slow.


You're misconstruing what I said. I made it perfectly clear why it's difficult to set mobs up with my example. It's not that I dont set them up, it's that I'm not given time to do so (when setting up is needed).


I'm not misconstruing anything. It may be difficult for you, but it's not for me. Perhaps your class has different mechanics, but I can target and mark mobs as soon as they're in range. Tanking is too easy to get upset about DPS being in a hurry to kill things. Even if they are trigger happy, DPS is never tanking long enough that healers run out of mana or put us in any danger of wiping.

So I didn't hold aggro for 100% of the duration of a pull. My group didn't wipe, my bum is not sore and there are no scrapes on my internet badge of honor.

OhimeKowai wrote:
While many will stop playing tank because they aren't good at it or don't want to garner that much responsibility, people who don't work together with the tank and those who don't have any patience while doing their dungeon run are perhaps contributing to tanks not "enjoying" their class as opposed to simply being bored with it.


It's not a great responsibility, it's a trivial dungeon run. Smiley: oyvey

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 6:24am by FilthMcNasty
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#85 Sep 14 2013 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
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There is a preset macro.

In your Macro submenu.

Specifically for marking.

You don't need to take any time. It can be bound to any attack or ability. It tells the DPS that hey: I should attack this target and that the other targets may possibly be under the effects of CC. As I level my tank, I would never expect the DPS to read my mind and therefore always mark my current target by using any one of my abilities that the mark is bound to.

I learned something very valuable from my professors while in college and that is that the good ones NEVER assume that their students know anything: they begin from the basics (regardless if it is known or not) so that people do not become lost later on.

The same applies here. To assume that the DPS know anything, as sad as that seems, is a bad assumption. To not put all the blame on the DPS: to assume people know how to read your mind is a bad assumption.

Quote:
If you have this type of mentality while playing on an MMO with other people, please GTFO since people like you ruin the experience for others.


I would consider following your own advice. You do not seem to play well with others.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 7:58am by HitomeOfBismarck
#86 Sep 14 2013 at 6:24 AM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'm not misconstruing anything.


Sure you did. People will go on and on over anything, which is something I don't have a lot of time for, and with that, there isn't much more that needs to be said to you.


HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
I would consider following your own advice. You do not seem to play well with others.


Have we run a dungeon together? No? Then don't presume to know how I treat others in a party due to a fairly harmless comment left in a forum.
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#87 Sep 14 2013 at 8:31 AM Rating: Decent
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OhimeKowai wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'm not misconstruing anything.


Sure you did. People will go on and on over anything, which is something I don't have a lot of time for, and with that, there isn't much more that needs to be said to you.

As stated above, you can make macros to make life easier. You can make a macro to mark. You also have keybinds. There is a keybind that brings up a UI specifically for marking targets. Press a button to open it, use your favorite targeting style to select the target and then press a button or click the interface.

Bottom line is, what you're talking about doing isn't something that is difficult and it really doesn't require all that much planning. It's about the equivalent of playing football against a team of senior citizens. Are you really gonna tell me you're upset because someone jumps the gun when you wanna sit there and draw x's and o's in the dirt? Smiley: laugh

There isn't much more that can be said to save you from eating more and more of your own shoe. If you insist though; I'd be lying if I said it wasn't somewhat entertaining.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#88 Sep 14 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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As I've gotten to higher and higher levels I've found, as a dps, that marks are really REALLY helpful.

Let me give an example:

I was in Stone Vigil yesterday.. on the very first pull the tank just ran in and started whacking things. Now whenever a tank doesn't mark things, I generally focus the target they started with. Well it didn't take much focusing...after 2 attacks I had pulled threat on that target. So I switch to another target to try and give the tank time to get the first one back. One attack later, I have threat on the second target.

At this point I'm popping defensive cooldowns and searching the auto-translator for "Please set the enemy marks." Because me just watching the threat meter clearly isn't quite enough.

I'm not an idiot. I know how threat works, and I know how to read the two threat meters provided. I know when to hold back, I know when to switch targets to avoid pulling threat. But this was literally after pushing two buttons.

This isn't an attempt to make myself look amazing, or to say that "lulz tankz r bad l2p." This is intended to illustrate that not all tanks are capable of holding threat from dps that are doing their job properly without the assistance of the marking system...or telepathy.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 10:10am by Callinon
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#89 Sep 14 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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I find it hilarious that some people think that their way of taking on mobs is somehow the only way, lol. A large portion of the people I know in-game only group with FC members to avoid control freaks like the OP and nevermind that with voicechat, it removes the need for marking. I will have to admit the few times I do PUG, having a duty finder makes it easy to drop group if someone gets out of control. I play to have fun, not deal with egomaniacs nerd raging over pixels.
#90 Sep 14 2013 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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OhimeKowai wrote:
Have we run a dungeon together? No? Then don't presume to know how I treat others in a party due to a fairly harmless comment left in a forum.


The question becomes, "Would I ever want to run a dungeon with you after reading your remarks here?"

The answer is obviously, "No."
#91 Sep 14 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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BarunMarr wrote:
I'm still fairly new to the tank class, but one thing that really helped my situational awareness was zooming out. Seems simple, but when I was level 20ish I was still zoomed in pretty close - one enemy would take up my entire screen and I couldn't see when one stripped off to attack my healer. Made a world of difference.


This helps DPS too, so they can see any adds (especially the ones that are squishy) a lot easier.

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 2:59pm by fatpolomanjr
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#92 Sep 14 2013 at 5:22 PM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty,
Didn't bother to read your comment, so save you're energy for micro-managing and ruining an otherwise fun experience for others within the game. As I said, I'm done with you.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
OhimeKowai wrote:
Have we run a dungeon together? No? Then don't presume to know how I treat others in a party due to a fairly harmless comment left in a forum.


The question becomes, "Would I ever want to run a dungeon with you after reading your remarks here?"

The answer is obviously, "No."


And the reply is an obvious; thank-fking-God. Please refer Zosimo's comment--couldn't have said it better myself.

..And let the nerd-aggro and down voting begin!

Zosimo wrote:
I play to have fun, not deal with egomaniacs nerd raging over pixels.


My sentiments exactly. These people seem to forget that their sh*tty pseudo-elitist uber-basement-dwelling attitudes are ruining what should be an enjoyable experience for everyone. A lot of people new to MMO's are joining this game simply because they're a fan of the FF series. When SE starts selling again, there's going to be even more MMO newbies playing, so these people better get over themselves quickly. If these pseudo-elitist's want a game where everyone is on guard and trying their hardest (to the point of stressing), like someone else suggested, go play Wizardly since perma-death weeds out those who aren't ready for higher levels.

After a long day of work, I want to come home and play with friendly individuals and not worry about childish fits and childish finger-pointing. Yeah there's a lot of dateless, tight-assed stick-danglers on this game, but I've had the luck of playing with a few great people, which makes the game worthwhile, in my opinion.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 7:29pm by OhimeKowai
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#93 Sep 14 2013 at 5:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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What I don't like - as a dungeon Newby is the "You suck" instead of explaining what I did wrong.
I had one good player the other day who actually explained how my Arcanist`'s emerald carby was
waking up his slept mobs - apparently it DOES have an AoE wind ability gained at level 20 -
so the advice here to use emerald rather than topaz is wrong!
What is needed is to use obey on your pet - so simple but rarely explained.
So my take on this whole thing - until wiki's are up and running with "How to" sections
is be kind to your fellow player and reveal any info you have to help them play better.
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#94 Sep 14 2013 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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OhimeKowai wrote:
FilthMcNasty,
Didn't bother to read your comment, so save you're energy for micro-managing and ruining an otherwise fun experience for others within the game. As I said, I'm done with you.

The irony...

Feel free not to read my comments. They were completely rational suggestions on how you can avoid being disgruntled about people who can and will pull mobs because they don't want to wait for you to fumble through the vastly improved interface to mark every mob and bark out painfully obvious orders to follow in order to defeat a pack of trash.

It just so happens that I am a tank. It is my job to mitigate as much incoming damage as I can from myself and my group. This includes controlling packs of multiple mobs and keeping their focus, positioning the mobs so that party members are out of harms way and keeping my group in the best position they can be to do their job effectively. I really don't see anything exceptional about the way I perform in my role so it's not something I brag about; it's my own personal expectation about what my performance should be.

I save my energy for doing my job effectively and efficiently. I don't ruin anyone's experience because I'm prepared to do my job. God forbid someone in my group actually try to rip aggro from me... I might actually be faced with a challenge; one which I would certainly enjoy. In fact, if DPS spent the entire dungeon trying to make my job harder, I'd probably thank them for it.

Call me a ********* Smiley: glare
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#95 Sep 15 2013 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
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OhimeKowai wrote:
Didn't bother to read your comment


Couldn't have said it better myself. You seem to personify exactly the kind of person that you seem to detest oh so much.

There is a certain phrase that applies to this situation..I think..maybe..oh here it is:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
The irony...
#96 Sep 15 2013 at 2:32 AM Rating: Default
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
OhimeKowai wrote:
Didn't bother to read your comment


Couldn't have said it better myself. You seem to personify exactly the kind of person that you seem to detest oh so much.

There is a certain phrase that applies to this situation..I think..maybe..oh here it is:

FilthMcNasty wrote:
The irony...



Well Hitome, it looks like you're all out of things to say, move along now since you've strayed far off-topic for long enough. All I see here are you and that other dateless bottom-feeder sniffing each others a$$holes. I'm sure there's a bucket of Hagen Daz waiting for you to insta-face-dive into it, since it clearly seems to be that time of the month for you. Smiley: wink Bye.

Filth, (an appropriate name if I may add) again your overzealous "I have no social life" rant has gone unread. I'll leave you and your little cyber girlfriend to virtual dry-hump each other's leg in this thread. After all, people like you have nothing better to look forward to other than harassing people over forums and making people (who would otherwise be having fun playing the game and running dungeons) feel as though your narrow-minded way is the only way to play and have fun. No one wants to be stressed when they run dungeon, and especially not by a bunch of ****** assed 12-year-old kids whom think they're entitled to tell others what to do and how to play while throwing respect and self-control to the wayside.
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#97 Sep 15 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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IKickYoDog wrote:
Strangerous wrote:
...but when I see a monk or drg and they stand in one spot and I see their skills going off that require positioning...or I see them blatantly ignoring assist tank or marked mobs...I want to say something but you just cant tell these people anything without them trying to either call you out on something for revenge, no matter how stupid the attempt is, or getting uber upset and leaving.


True. Friggin. Story.

I would love to run into some of these players that people describe as being very open to advice. I had a MRD tank in Cutter's Cry the other day who literally ran non-stop around mobs the entire fight, constantly spinning the mob's position. As a DRG, it was a pain in my **** trying to get Disembowel and Heavy Thrust off unless there was an AOE attack. I asked him twice why he was running in circles and got no response, then the third time I got "I have to move around to stay alive. You just need to learn to move and damage, it's not that hard bro." When we got to the next boss (the antilon) he says "Perfect, it's high time you learned to move and damage."

Excuse me, Mr D-bag, I know how to "move and damage." If I wanted to be a tool like you, I would just spam my damage combo to Full Thrust and call it a day. It's the position-based buff combos that are near impossible with you running around like a jackalope and waking all the blm's slept mobs with constant Overpower spam.

/rant off, but what it comes down to is there are a lot of keyboard commandos out there who don't want to listen, enough to be considered their own group, thus causing these types of threads.


This. I gotta tell you though as healer I'm constantly on the move when I've got a bad tank in party. I've had a few where even after I wait til I thought the tank had full emnity of the adds I'd pop a cure off to get him back in shape and sure as **** the doggoned adds headed right for me. One cure just one after I thought the tank had hate. So then I'm kiting and I get yelled at for running and trying to stay alive long enough for the tank to grab the adds.... That's when I got told I was lucky there isn't a kick button.... wtf?
#98 Sep 15 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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Huh. Just remembered I had a crush on a Zosimo in 8th grade. Then his family got orders for Holland so our love was not meant to be Smiley: crymore
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#99 Sep 15 2013 at 8:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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OhimeKowai wrote:
No one wants to be stressed when they run dungeon, and especially not by a bunch of sh*tty assed 12-year-old kids whom think they're entitled to tell others what to do and how to play while throwing respect and self-control to the wayside.


Says the kid mad enough to create a QQ thread about how people don't do what he tells them to do. It's one thing to bow out of a discussion because you don't want to talk about something. It's another to call people 12 yr olds, all the while running through the thread with your fingers in your ears yelling "lalalala" to avoid addressing the issue; an issue he himself brought up Smiley: laugh
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#100 Sep 17 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Speaking of tanking properly, I have a question about a macro I want to set up. Basically I am only interested in marking one mob at a time, thus I want to just place the number 1 mark up and I've been using:

/enemysign attack1 <t>
/ac "Heavy Swing" <t>

However each time I use Heavy Swing, it'll turn off/on the attack sign 1. Is there a stop script line I need to use? I cannot seem to get it to work properly.
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#101 Sep 18 2013 at 12:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Hate to bump, but I will! Anyone have knowledge on my question?
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