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This kind of behavior from a level 50 tank? Seriously?Follow

#27 Sep 11 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Just to give you a word of warning. Going back and revisiting dungeons does not give you the experience it appears that you are looking for.

The biggest issue I found while going through the dungeons is the fact that abilities and skills shift and become available in a rather interesting way.

First, you need to keep in mind that you want to setup your macros and ability bar to reflect abilities available at level.

Then, and this is the part that is one that I tend to have issues with, is that you need to select your cross class abilities based on priority as you level. Lower level dungeons give you far less abilities than level 50, but, your cross class abilities are not level limited. That means, you can use, for example, Raise, Protect, or Stoneskin before White Mage can. These requirements change with the Party really. Typically I go with Bloodbath, and Awareness (I believe) for low level, and after 30~40 I have Cure and Raise in there somewhere, and the last ability I add is Protect. But that really is just for me (Solo).

And be forwarned, if you thought that tanks not marking was bad, wait until you have DDs that attack anything that moves, and pull... Or party members just running in random directions...
#28 Sep 11 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:
Just to give you a word of warning. Going back and revisiting dungeons does not give you the experience it appears that you are looking for.

The biggest issue I found while going through the dungeons is the fact that abilities and skills shift and become available in a rather interesting way.

First, you need to keep in mind that you want to setup your macros and ability bar to reflect abilities available at level.

Then, and this is the part that is one that I tend to have issues with, is that you need to select your cross class abilities based on priority as you level. Lower level dungeons give you far less abilities than level 50, but, your cross class abilities are not level limited. That means, you can use, for example, Raise, Protect, or Stoneskin before White Mage can. These requirements change with the Party really. Typically I go with Bloodbath, and Awareness (I believe) for low level, and after 30~40 I have Cure and Raise in there somewhere, and the last ability I add is Protect. But that really is just for me (Solo).

And be forwarned, if you thought that tanks not marking was bad, wait until you have DDs that attack anything that moves, and pull... Or party members just running in random directions...


I understand and expect all of that lol. Should be an interesting ride. Also plan on taking LS/FC people first before pugs.
#29 Sep 11 2013 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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PlanckZero wrote:
By the time someone hits level 50 they should have some slightest clue as to how to play their job right?

Apparently leveling as a tank in this game is so ridiculously easy that some people can't be bothered to learn some of the simpler mechanics. I just had to leave three level 50 dungeons in a row because each tank was so entirely clueless it was a wonder they had made it out of their very first dungeon.

Marking an enemy should be a simple matter right? Each and every time none of these people could be bothered to toss out even a single mark on their focused target. I ended up having to assume the initial target they pulled each time was their focus and half of the time they would suddenly switch targets a few seconds in and the mob starts running after whichever DD had started to build the most hate.

That brings us into afk tanking. In what world is this considered even slightly appropriate? Each time I or another DD would end up on the wrong mob and pull hate the tank wouldn't budge an inch. At first I figure that they're just focused on the other mob but then when that one too goes running after someone each tank was left staring off into space while everyone else is kiting around the room or spamming cures for the next minute or two until the tank realized there was nothing in front of them anymore.

SE seriously needs to look at the balance of this game and how easily tank jobs are getting pushed along that people can get as far as they have without having a clue or even really caring about how they're playing.


There are plenty of dungeons that can be fairly difficult prior to 50 that can cause Tanks to step up as far as skills go.

I play on a PS3 and mark whenever I deem necessary. I have marking on my hotbar ready to use at anytime. I consider myself fortunate when I'm with a DD that understands to hit my target, yet more often than not, I have a mage who not only likes to pull, but also starts attacking other targets. Being a PLD, I find myself having to switch targets just to keep the hate of the 3+ mobs I happen to be taking on and it can be a little difficult at times, but I do the best I can.

I usually have to remind people not to pull or attack other targets so the fights go smoothly for the Healer and myself. But I don't think a lot of people realize that when they're not the tank. At the end of the day, communication will be your best friend and if people are unable to comply with strategies? That's when you find a new group to run with.
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#30 Sep 11 2013 at 5:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Giving the tank tips like I'm about to give you would be a good idea instead of leaving them in the dust. If everyone does as you did, how do you expect them to learn?

For you first question regarding marking: did you realize there is a special marking macro already preset for you in the Macro menu? I tell every tank who has trouble with marking this and things go so much smoother after.

It clearly states what the tank is targeting in party chat "Attack <t>!" and assigns the #1 mark to that current target (so you don't have to spend time marking 1, 2, 3, 4... every time).

As for 'AFK' tank...suggest ways to improve their rotation to generate more enmity. Some tanks are so focused on their target that they will neglect other targets. For instance, I know even the best tanks I've played with have gotten distracted on very large bosses (like the last one in Aurum Vale) and have not realized that their healer was getting whacked by mini malboros. It happens.

And if it continually happens, make suggestions to the tank or watch your own enmity bar. You do know you have one right? If you're pulling aggro, even with an AFK tank, you have no one to blame but yourself. You know exactly when the mob will turn to you and start whacking you.

I'm not defending bad tanks, though. There are some really bad ones that refuse to take advice. But most of the ones I've run into seem to get really frustrated with tanking because it seems like a daunting task to them. It is if it's your first time, I guess. To me, though, it's just another role. To you, it's just another role. So help them see that their job isn't as hard as they think and you'll have a better time.

TLDR: Have patience and explain things to people.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 7:47pm by HitomeOfBismarck
#31 Sep 11 2013 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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It's really acceptable for the DD to do the marking. Or the healer. Caster first is all you need to know to mark for a majority of encounters.

If you mark the mobs as DD generally the tank will follow your lead, easy way to help a player new to the tank role.
#32 Sep 11 2013 at 7:11 PM Rating: Default
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MitArgento wrote:
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theres also the ones that because they FATE grind their way to 50, when they do need to tank, they can`t do it properly.


This. I've seen Fate thrown around a lot as the prime excuse to why tanks get to 50 and have no clue. Logically, it makes sense, but is not a definitive reason they suck (at 50). My point being, if you are going to play a tank, or healer, and dd for that matter, learn how to play your class before wasting other peoples time in dungeons. I could care less if you Fate'd your way to 50. Don't come crawling into the duty finder without even a semblance of how to preform the basic functions of your job.

I think, based of what I'm reading here, is that, although polite, some of you are enabling these types of tanks with excuses. From level 1 to 50, I understand they are learning, which is fine and acceptable. But at 50? Learn your role or don't queue. Take some time out to practice aggro management, read tanking guides, ect. I have no sympathy for a lvl 50 tank that is clueless.

I am a tank myself and would be flat out embarrassed to lolly gag my way into end game content without being on point. If anything, the tank the OP is referring to should be ashamed of himself.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 9:13pm by SistinasAria
#33 Sep 11 2013 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Most pulls its obvious. You have one big mob that does aoe, him first, then whatever mini guys next.

Some pulls its a must, or if your healers pet flings a mob into another pack but still refuses to put the **** pet away.

I think its more awareness that's the largest tank issue. Ok, the healer is healing you and building hate, don't just hit the first mob and ignore the others in the pack and then yell at the healer for pulling agro, or ignoring that mob to tech him a lesson...that's the most common facepalm I see out of tanks.

Also...LOSing range mobs...and pulling packs...literally pulling them...far enough back so that a PAT isn't an issue, or that DPS who needs to attack from behind doesn't risk aggroing new mobs.

Just be aware, and when you see a mob parting and going to range...stop what you are doing and grab it...that is your job.

I see a lot of bad everything...healers is hard for me to judge since I stay away from that role in all games...but when I see a monk or drg and they stand in one spot and I see their skills going off that require positioning...or I see them blatantly ignoring assist tank or marked mobs...I want to say something but you just cant tell these people anything without them trying to either call you out on something for revenge, no matter how stupid the attempt is, or getting uber upset and leaving.
#34 Sep 11 2013 at 7:18 PM Rating: Default
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I usually mark on my bard if the tank doesn't do it. I tend to ignore the auto-translate function since my bard is on a JP server lol.
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#35 Sep 11 2013 at 7:23 PM Rating: Good
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SistinasAria wrote:
MitArgento wrote:
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theres also the ones that because they FATE grind their way to 50, when they do need to tank, they can`t do it properly.


This. I've seen Fate thrown around a lot as the prime excuse to why tanks get to 50 and have no clue. Logically, it makes sense, but is not a definitive reason they suck (at 50). My point being, if you are going to play a tank, or healer, and dd for that matter, learn how to play your class before wasting other peoples time in dungeons. I could care less if you Fate'd your way to 50. Don't come crawling into the duty finder without even a semblance of how to preform the basic functions of your job.

I think, based of what I'm reading here, is that, although polite, some of you are enabling these types of tanks with excuses. From level 1 to 50, I understand they are learning, which is fine and acceptable. But at 50? Learn your role or don't queue. Take some time out to practice aggro management, read tanking guides, ect. I have no sympathy for a lvl 50 tank that is clueless.

I am a tank myself and would be flat out embarrassed to lolly gag my way into end game content without being on point. If anything, the tank the OP is referring to should be ashamed of himself.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 9:13pm by SistinasAria



Although I agree with you that people should know how their job performs in a party by the time they hit 50, I disagree with your attitude. Just because you're level 50 doesn't mean you know every single strategy for every single fight. Not only that, you can't be upset when things just flat out go wrong sometimes - especially if it's your tank's first time doing the fight/dungeon/whatever.

Educate, don't criticize.
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#36 Sep 11 2013 at 7:34 PM Rating: Default
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Zicash wrote:
Although I agree with you that people should know how their job performs in a party by the time they hit 50, I disagree with your attitude. Just because you're level 50 doesn't mean you know every single strategy for every single fight. Not only that, you can't be upset when things just flat out go wrong sometimes - especially if it's your tank's first time doing the fight/dungeon/whatever.

Educate, don't criticize.


I don't think anyone's just talking about boss fights. You can go into any new dungeon as a tank and you shouldn't have a problem tanking trash and bosses with simple mechanics. Of course it's a different matter when a tank doesn't know the strategy of a particular tricky boss. People have every right to be annoyed when someone can't perform the baseline functions of tanking by level 50.
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#37 Sep 11 2013 at 7:36 PM Rating: Default
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What level 50 dungeon is this?

In Amdaphor's Keep and Wanderer's Palace. Speedrunning is so commonplace that having to mark stuff is a non-issue because you aren't killing trash anyway. Castrum and Praetorium is an 8-man *********** with AoEs everywhere. You can literally spam Flash/Overpower on everything and not have any issues since everything dies so fast. Castrum is even easier since Cannons exist.
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#38 Sep 11 2013 at 7:53 PM Rating: Good
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...but when I see a monk or drg and they stand in one spot and I see their skills going off that require positioning...or I see them blatantly ignoring assist tank or marked mobs...I want to say something but you just cant tell these people anything without them trying to either call you out on something for revenge, no matter how stupid the attempt is, or getting uber upset and leaving.


True. Friggin. Story.

I would love to run into some of these players that people describe as being very open to advice. I had a MRD tank in Cutter's Cry the other day who literally ran non-stop around mobs the entire fight, constantly spinning the mob's position. As a DRG, it was a pain in my **** trying to get Disembowel and Heavy Thrust off unless there was an AOE attack. I asked him twice why he was running in circles and got no response, then the third time I got "I have to move around to stay alive. You just need to learn to move and damage, it's not that hard bro." When we got to the next boss (the antilon) he says "Perfect, it's high time you learned to move and damage."

Excuse me, Mr D-bag, I know how to "move and damage." If I wanted to be a tool like you, I would just spam my damage combo to Full Thrust and call it a day. It's the position-based buff combos that are near impossible with you running around like a jackalope and waking all the blm's slept mobs with constant Overpower spam.

/rant off, but what it comes down to is there are a lot of keyboard commandos out there who don't want to listen, enough to be considered their own group, thus causing these types of threads.
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#39 Sep 11 2013 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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I have to be honest... In my first tanking dungeon I had no idea about marking. It was brayflox and the Mage yelled at me to mark the pelican boss spawns. Since I didn't know about marking or have them keybound, I asked the mage if they could mark.

After the dungeon, I fooled around in settings, found marks and keybinded them on the numpad.

Both of my tank jobs were 50 since I was 1.0 legacy, but I went through all the dungeons to relearn the new abilities and get back in the tanking mode.

I assume a lot of higher end tanks either spammed fates or fast tracked the storyline and never really relearned the job.
#40 Sep 11 2013 at 8:01 PM Rating: Default
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It's a sad state when our 8 man team had to work with a L.50 tank who complained after the first trash encounter by saying "....how the **** am I supposed to handle all the mobs?". Then starts cursing us out for being noobs and then rage quits. We were all pretty much in shock over this whole situation. I personally never seen a player in any MMORPG who didn't understand their class/job basic skills.

But let's not pick on the tanks. There are issues with all sorts of players and their play styles. This evening before rather maintenance, we had two WHM on our team. The second one thought it would be cute to spam Holy on the first double pull of trash mobs. Just rushes in, starts spamming and dies. Unbelievable.
#41 Sep 11 2013 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
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SistinasAria wrote:
MitArgento wrote:
Quote:
theres also the ones that because they FATE grind their way to 50, when they do need to tank, they can`t do it properly.


This. I've seen Fate thrown around a lot as the prime excuse to why tanks get to 50 and have no clue. Logically, it makes sense, but is not a definitive reason they suck (at 50). My point being, if you are going to play a tank, or healer, and dd for that matter, learn how to play your class before wasting other peoples time in dungeons. I could care less if you Fate'd your way to 50. Don't come crawling into the duty finder without even a semblance of how to preform the basic functions of your job.

I think, based of what I'm reading here, is that, although polite, some of you are enabling these types of tanks with excuses. From level 1 to 50, I understand they are learning, which is fine and acceptable. But at 50? Learn your role or don't queue. Take some time out to practice aggro management, read tanking guides, ect. I have no sympathy for a lvl 50 tank that is clueless.

I am a tank myself and would be flat out embarrassed to lolly gag my way into end game content without being on point. If anything, the tank the OP is referring to should be ashamed of himself.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 9:13pm by SistinasAria


How are you going to practice aggro management solo, dear? :D
#42 Sep 11 2013 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Before I say what I want to say, I want it to be known that this is my personal opinion, please no hate...

As far as targeting goes, I honestly think that the Healer should be assigned that task, lets be real, tanking in this game is somewhat difficult, unless your a semi skilled player with the tank, pulling aggro in this game can be tricky but with the WAR and PLD AoE attacks being used properly most of the issues with aggro can be avoided. On the other hand a healer has a good 30 to 60 seconds of time to waste before having to heal the tank, and if you don't have that much time, your tank is probably not that good.

As far as "afk tanking", I think most people can agree that's stupid. Anyone who is going to do that shouldn't be playing this game in the first place, they should be playing MMO's like Angels Online. (Angels Online is a good game though)

A tank in this game should be watching all mobs at all times, when one is not hitting you and attacking one of your other party members you need to hit it a couple times, provoke it, AoE it, whatever it, to get it to hit you again. The tanks your referring to probably aren't good at their role, you should try looking for people/friends who do know that role and can party with you for end game dungeons and what not.

The only balance issue I can see, is that the tanks don't earn a lot of enmity with there AoE abilities. I would like to see a higher value of it because sometimes I'm having to use my AoE 3 to 5 times during a mob fight in any dungeon just to keep them all on me.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 10:39pm by NatoKenichi
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#43 Sep 11 2013 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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I disagree only because you can mark targets on mobs before you engage them, and also the tank has to absolutely be the first one to engage a monster. If a healer set the target markers instead of the tank, the tank would lose some of the tactical abilities (e.g. changing a number on the fly, ignoring the numbers to keep hate, etc.) I think it'd work if the healer and the tank were connected via Skype, but if they're having to communicate via text it's a major roadblock and the role should just stay with the tank to begin with.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 10:49pm by Catwho
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#44 Sep 11 2013 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Don't forget that a lot of people were level 50 in 1.0 and they are now playing a totally different game with different mechanics. They could literally be playing for their first time and have several level 50 Jobs. They probably tested out some things for a few minutes and hopped on in to "learn on the fly".
#45 Sep 11 2013 at 9:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Complaining about noobs in a game that just came out. Priceless.
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#46 Sep 11 2013 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
My only complaint about the Marking thing is two fold... (Yeah, I know I did that).

Marking is much slower, and cumbersome in dungeons than assisting. Having been required to do dynamis as a kiter/dd in 11, we knew to have our /assist macros created. And this prevented mis-targets and also stopped people from attacking before the tank.

This also works well in the fact that as tank, I switch to the next mob before the last one is dead. Marking requires that I attempt to find the one I marked as #2 and attack it. And while there are "Cute" dds that think they are going to get a leg up on parsing (yeah, they are back already in full force), so they attack the mob with full health before I even have time to properly start hitting.

With 2-3 mob groups, from a tanking perspective (and tanks have ALOT to think about), Marking is HIGHLY error prone, slows down combat, and results in frustration (you are not marking fast enough, we should be attacking mob x first), or worse, DDs just decide to ignore marks, or go in and attack the moment you mark the first mob.

So, my question is, for those who are so obsessed with tanks marking trash mobs, why are you not using /assist? This solves your problem and speeds up the fighting. This allows the mage to easily sleep adds (/assist then off-target and sleep, you will return to the main target, then off-target and sleep).

Which is basically how I mark, and I do play on a controller. Since I haven't made it to 50 yet, I haven't bothered setting up any of my macros, as I don't have access to 1/2 my abilities, and haven't settled into which abilities work best with what...

My only real thought is, if your tank doesn't mark /assist... If your tank does mark... /assist anyways. No problems, and everyone is happy and fighting the same thing...


Marking is nice, I tend to do it just so things do go smoother. You guys realize you can setup a mark macro in you WS button right. I have "Mark 1" on my Tomahawk macro, so the first pull I do they burn down, then when it is dead I switch targets and Tomahawk him and he is marked. No extra involved time and helps th run go smooth.
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#47 Sep 11 2013 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
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I'll switch a target to gain aggro from that enemy which is probably what other tanks are doing as well, and as other tanks have mentioned, marking does slow down the dungeon run, however, since it seems to be so offensive for others, I'll be sure to mark from now on. Usually, after all enemies are aggro'd, I'll start focusing on the enemy the DD is attacking and that's if he isn't already attacking the enemy I was focused on.

Edited, Sep 11th 2013 11:56pm by OhimeKowai
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#48 Sep 11 2013 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
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Marking, while (kind of) nice, really isn't a big issue if the DPS pays even the remotest bit of attention.
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#49 Sep 11 2013 at 9:56 PM Rating: Decent
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FlixEffect wrote:
Marking, while (kind of) nice, really isn't a big issue if the DPS pays even the remotest bit of attention.



As a melee dd it's all about paying attention. True.

But once those AOE's starting nuking. Becomes a slower game. Just to add that perspective. Sometimes it takes a few seconds longer to get on page.
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#50 Sep 11 2013 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think that every mob needs to be marked. But it's quite helpful when you're facing a minor boss or an area that has a crapton of trash mobs guarding a door, object, etc.
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#51 Sep 11 2013 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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To Catwho, I do agree that the tank and healer being connected somehow would make things a lot simpler for everyone, Maybe people should start using things like Team Speak or Ventrilo more often. I still don't agree with the tank having to target first, I can understand targeting before entering battle but it makes the dungeon crawl faster if you can let the tank start their pull and aggro regimen on the mobs and the healer standing by, mark the targets properly, 1 would always be the mob the tank is hitting first, and after that the tank should be able to manage the rest.
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