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Your processor is the problemFollow

#1 Sep 11 2013 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I mentioned this in the benchmark thread (the one that is now more than five pages deep thanks to all the 90000 and 1017 panic), but if you are not getting as good of performance as you expected from a very good video card, there is a good probability that your processor is the bottleneck. Now I have evidence.

Tonight I upgraded from a 2 year old AMD Phenom II x4 to a Core i7 4770K (necessitating a motherboard upgrade at the same time as well, of course.) All other bits of hardware in the system remained the same:

- Radeon HD 7770
- 16 GB RAM (DDR3 1333)
- 120 GB SSD with an addition 1TB 7200 platter drive
- Windows 8 (I'm a *********)
- All existing case wiring, cables, PSU, etc.
- Both motherboards were gaming MSI "military grade" (whatever that means), just the old one was socket AM3 and this new one is LG 1150 or w/e the core i7 stuff is.

My "Exploration" benchmark score jumped from around 3,000 on Maximum to just over 6,000. Medium went from about 4500 to 10549 (this is about what Yoshi P's gaming laptop showed during a demo last spring.)

Other folks have reported better performance with the Core i7 processors compared with their AMD counterparts. While the upgrade in this case was from a two year old mid range AMD to a two month old upper mid range Intel, the difference in the benchmark alone is pretty stark.

Can't wait to see what the game is like now!
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#2 Sep 11 2013 at 10:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've noticed some pretty heavy load on my 4670K at times, and it's OCed to 4.2Ghz. Not all that surprised at your result.

Good info, rated up.
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#3 Sep 11 2013 at 10:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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I actually had an awesome discussion in shouts in Coerthas with two other legitimate engineers the other day about CPU architectures. Kind of funny, but... here's what everyone ought to know about the current CPU market and what a lot of folks expect to see in the next 6-24 months.

Intel beats AMD hands down in terms of CPUs right now. A Haswell is clearly going to rule an older Phenom pretty hard, not to mention that you're going from an X4 (quad-core without h/t) to an i7 (which is a quad-core with h/t). Hyper-threading (h/t) is an Intel thing which basically allows your cpu's cores to process other workloads while they are blocking on other stuff like disk i/o, memory i/o, etc. On an AMD cpu or a computer without h/t (like an i5 cpu), your cpu cores will sit and wait for that response. With h/t, they can perform other tasks like number crunching while they wait - at least to some extent. I use a lot of Intel CPUs at work. You can really see the difference between an E3-1220VX versus an E3-1230VX where the 1220 is a quad core without h/t and the 1230 is a quad-core with h/t under some types of workloads where multiple threads are running concurrently. Intel's cores are also better than AMD's at this point, irrespective of clock speed.

AMD's got some serious good stuff in the works, though. The architecture they are debuting as the platform for both the XboxOne and the PS4 is downright impressive and, truly, is indicative of some cool new technology we're going to start seeing on the market more broadly in the coming 12 months. Of course, we haven't really played with it yet - at least not those of us who don't work for Sony, Microsoft, or some other AMD OEM partner. I suspect there's more than meets the eye from reading spec sheets on those two systems. In essence, they're going to make system memory work faster and better than Intel is doing right now, which is going to have a rather profound impact on overall performance.


You may want to consider a PCIE 3.0 video card as your next upgrade, as the Haswell cpu and 1150 board are going to support that. That will likely double your bandwidth between the CPU and the GPU. Other upgrades I'd recommend would be a second 1TB drive (I love Western Digital myself) and a second SSD and setup a RAID1 mirror for each of those for redundancy so that you don't lose data should your primary drive experience a failure. You can use software RAID and be just fine, but if you want extremely good performance, I'd recommend popping a few hundred bucks for an LSI 9260-4i controller. Don't use the "RAID" on your motherboard's SATA ports: it doesn't come with cache and it doesn't come with an IOP so you'd be hurting performance significantly be using it, even compared to using software RAID in your operating system.
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#4 Sep 11 2013 at 10:25 PM Rating: Good
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Been spouting the same since the first alpha years ago and it really hasn't changed much, other than the fact that GPU matters slightly less than it did then.

CPU >> GPU > the rest
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#5 Sep 11 2013 at 10:29 PM Rating: Default
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Thanks for the info Cat. It's great to hear all the test data so players can make the right choices for their budget. Speaking of budgets, here is a link for that CPU Cat mentioned in her OP. It costs roughly $339 just for the cpu alone. Considering the PS4 version which is a free upgrade for PS3 players will score around 5,000 on the benchmark for only $400, the slightly better 6,000 benchmark using a top of line cpu really doesn't impress me. If only we could buy Intel chips for their actual cost, not the inflated figure they sell them to the public. A PC built from scratch with a Win 8 OS would cost nearly $1,000-1,500 to beat the PS4 version. I don't think that's cool at all.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116901
#6 Sep 11 2013 at 10:38 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
It costs roughly $339 just for the cpu alone.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116901


Dusk's rules to live by #534930891: never buy CPUs from other-than-microcenter.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/413248/Core_i7_4770K_35GHz_Socket_LGA_1150_Boxed_Processor

:)
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#7 Sep 11 2013 at 10:41 PM Rating: Good
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also your GPU might be a problem

your GPU:
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+HD+7770

Recommended GPU per the FAQ: (gtx 660)
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+660&id=2152

and for fun a three generation old budget gaming card from Nvidia (GTX 460)
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+460+SE&id=123

Yeah youll be able to run the game, but I wouldn't expect to play on max during fates or with a lot of people on screen with that set up.

Also you could have saved roughly $100 getting the i5 3570k. Same speed but without the hyperthreading, something this game and all others don't utilize. (unless you do professional work on your computer that does use the hyperthreading of course)

Since you have it, and all the other hardware you have is pretty top notch...start saving for a real gaming card XD thing will be a beast with a 770 or similar AMD card.

Edited, Sep 12th 2013 12:47am by Strangerous
#8 Sep 11 2013 at 10:45 PM Rating: Default
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DuskCactuar wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
It costs roughly $339 just for the cpu alone.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116901


Dusk's rules to live by #534930891: never buy CPUs from other-than-microcenter.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/413248/Core_i7_4770K_35GHz_Socket_LGA_1150_Boxed_Processor

:)


Interesting, good site. I was ecstatic to find a cheaper price. However, I noticed something which might curb that enthusiasm.

"Available for In-Store Pickup Only."

So yeah, it doesn't do me or most people any good if this is right.
#9 Sep 11 2013 at 10:46 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

"Available for In-Store Pickup Only."

So yeah, it doesn't do me or most people any good if this is right.


Microcenter has stores all over the US so most folks who live in reasonable sized urban areas will be able to find one. The one I go to in Kansas is about a 30 minute drive. Check out their store locator on the website.
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#10 Sep 11 2013 at 10:58 PM Rating: Decent
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DuskCactuar wrote:

Microcenter has stores all over the US so most folks who live in reasonable sized urban areas will be able to find one. The one I go to in Kansas is about a 30 minute drive. Check out their store locator on the website.


They only have about 22 stores according to their store locator. You just happen to be lucky to live in Kansas. There is a store about 30min away from me too, but this doesn't help the majority of people reading this post. Sorry Dusk, most people can't benefit from this site.
#11 Sep 12 2013 at 12:51 AM Rating: Decent
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FWIW the 1090T I use in the rig that has the client on it scored an 11000 for me with a single GTX 670.

The cheapest option for upgrade(assuming you have something that is still somewhat current) will be a fan. If you can get a solid, stable overclock with a decent fan then that will always be the cheapest option.
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Rinsui wrote:
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#12 Sep 12 2013 at 1:03 AM Rating: Decent
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these are the upgrades I wanted to go with. I'm shooting for overkill here, but not total nuclear annihilation, which is why I didn't go with the 999 dollar CPU.

graphics= http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130921 (Currently gtx 560)
RAM= http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233360 (Currently 6GB)
MB= http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131801 (Currently Asus x58 Sabertooth)
CPU= http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116939 (Currently 1st generation i7 quad core 2.66)

my problem is that my wireless controller goes crazy if I'm in a crowded area, or just zoned into a dungeon. I'll start running around uncontrollably, or it'll stop responding for a few seconds all together. These upgrades should fix that problem, right?
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#13 Sep 12 2013 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
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garethrogue wrote:
these are the upgrades I wanted to go with. I'm shooting for overkill here, but not total nuclear annihilation, which is why I didn't go with the 999 dollar CPU.

graphics= http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130921 (Currently gtx 560)
RAM= http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233360 (Currently 6GB)
MB= http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131801 (Currently Asus x58 Sabertooth)
CPU= http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116939 (Currently 1st generation i7 quad core 2.66)

my problem is that my wireless controller goes crazy if I'm in a crowded area, or just zoned into a dungeon. I'll start running around uncontrollably, or it'll stop responding for a few seconds all together. These upgrades should fix that problem, right?


You don't need more RAM unless you're planning on doing something that will actually put it to use. CAS latency and timings have little impact on performance.

You also don't need an i7 processor unless you plan on doing something else that will make use of HT. Get the i5 instead and spend the leftover money on a good fan. Even a slight overclock will give you better results.

Money you save on RAM and the i5 to i7 upgrade are better spent on a CPU fan and possibly upgrading the GPU.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#14 Sep 12 2013 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
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^ I plan on being in an area with 50 other people, all with spell effects of their own, and not running out of control because my computer can't juggle all that and my gamepad inputs at the same time.
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Check out the Dream Network, a Twitch.tv community for XIV fans, featuring notable streamers like Mr. Happy, MTQcapture, Rahhzay, and Slyakagreyfox! http://dreamnetwork.tv/forum/index.php
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#15 Sep 12 2013 at 2:04 AM Rating: Decent
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garethrogue wrote:
^ I plan on being in an area with 50 other people, all with spell effects of their own, and not running out of control because my computer can't juggle all that and my gamepad inputs at the same time.


Doesn't really have any bearing on the advice I gave you. If you wanna spend the money then by all means, but the areas I mentioned are not going to be what allows you to do what you're aiming to do in XIV.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#16 Sep 12 2013 at 5:59 AM Rating: Good
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Strangerous wrote:
also your GPU might be a problem

your GPU:
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+HD+7770

Recommended GPU per the FAQ: (gtx 660)
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+660&id=2152

and for fun a three generation old budget gaming card from Nvidia (GTX 460)
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+460+SE&id=123

Yeah youll be able to run the game, but I wouldn't expect to play on max during fates or with a lot of people on screen with that set up.

Also you could have saved roughly $100 getting the i5 3570k. Same speed but without the hyperthreading, something this game and all others don't utilize. (unless you do professional work on your computer that does use the hyperthreading of course)

Since you have it, and all the other hardware you have is pretty top notch...start saving for a real gaming card XD thing will be a beast with a 770 or similar AMD card.

Edited, Sep 12th 2013 12:47am by Strangerous


Actually, I had no problems running the game on custom tweaked settings. I noticed very little lag, even during fates. The 7770 was a solid mid range card when it debuted about a year ago, and now it's a solid lower mid range compared to the latest and greatest. My previous card was a 5670 so the 7770 was a huge upgrade at the time.
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#17 Sep 12 2013 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
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I just have a 560Ti, and a AMD FX 6300. I know its gonna be too weak to run the game high settings, but I don't have the money for another upgrade yet(I went from a Phenom X6 to the FX 6300).

Love the 560, but think FFXIV will prove to be the final game it's able to run.

Edited, Sep 12th 2013 8:07am by TwilightSkye
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#18 Sep 12 2013 at 7:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:

- Both motherboards were gaming MSI "military grade" (whatever that means)


I believe that means if you are gaming and become the victim of a surprise bombing, while you will be obliterated, your motherboards will survive. :P
#19 Sep 12 2013 at 7:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
Other folks have reported better performance with the Core i7 processors compared with their AMD counterparts.
I don't think the i7 really justifies the price over the i5 for gaming purposes. I just ran the benchmark to see for myself, and got a 6708 on Maximum at 1920x1080 using an i5-3570k and a Radeon HD 5870.
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#20 Sep 12 2013 at 7:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm holding out for DDR4 support from AMD before doing any upgrades. Until then, I just pray my current rig doesn't melt whilst playing this game.
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#21 Sep 12 2013 at 7:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuskCactuar wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

"Available for In-Store Pickup Only."

So yeah, it doesn't do me or most people any good if this is right.


Microcenter has stores all over the US so most folks who live in reasonable sized urban areas will be able to find one. The one I go to in Kansas is about a 30 minute drive. Check out their store locator on the website.


Not a single one in Nebraska.

Only 23 locations, not even one for each state Smiley: frown

http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/default.aspx

Edited, Sep 12th 2013 8:30am by Wint
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#22 Sep 12 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Default
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DuskCactuar wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
It costs roughly $339 just for the cpu alone.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116901


Dusk's rules to live by #534930891: never buy CPUs from other-than-microcenter.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/413248/Core_i7_4770K_35GHz_Socket_LGA_1150_Boxed_Processor

:)


random rule of mine: never listen to people who talk about themselves in the third person.
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#23 Sep 12 2013 at 7:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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I just did a couple of benchmark runs to test if FFXIV puts Hyperthreading to use.
While I get load on all 8 "Cores" with Hyperthreading turned on I get an average of 80 points less withthe FFXIV Benchmark.
Interessting points that overclocking further still nets me more points even beyond the 4ghz mark I still get good returns but it just gets too noisy for me.

Rig:
Core i7-950 @ 3.65ghz
24gb Tripple Channel DDR3 Ram
2x Radeon Hd 5850 Crossfire @ 775/1125
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#24 Sep 12 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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DragonBourne wrote:
Catwho wrote:

- Both motherboards were gaming MSI "military grade" (whatever that means)


I believe that means if you are gaming and become the victim of a surprise bombing, while you will be obliterated, your motherboards will survive. :P


A friend of mine actually did have his Asus motherboard survive a fire. The plastic case was melted slag, but he managed to get the motherboard out of it and when he fired it up in a new case the motherboard, processor, RAM, and hard drive were still working.
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#25 Sep 12 2013 at 8:54 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think I have ever played a MMO that didn't have a love affair with CPUs so don't find it surprising that you get a far better score with a better CPU.
#26 Sep 12 2013 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is entirely dependent on resolution as well. If you play at a low resolution it's like feeding your CPU with a smaller bowl: You need more CPU to keep filling the bowl as fast as your GPU can empty it. It's just as hard to fill a small bowl many times as to fill a large bowl as much as possible.

The Intel is just better at filling small bowls quickly, but when you're filling a proper bowl, your actual playing resolution instead of this 1024x768 garbage the benchmark will run, the gap isn't so vast. You also, as already pointed out, threw an extra $200 or so at your CPU, so one could expect some increase at the very least.

I always liked the 'feeding a monster' analogue. Bigger video cards have bigger appetites, SLI cards eat twice as much but from the same bowl, CPU, memory, and supporting architecture have to keep the bowl filled, and the size of the bowl is your resolution.

CPU will have a much larger impact on sub-1080 resolutions, and that's more what you're seeing Cat. You've just more shown that your triple-seven is just too much card for your old processor, because throwing more CPU at an older card will not see the same gain (bowls are already satiating).

tl;dr The benchmarks are stupidly CPU bound because of the resolutions they run by default. Of course a CPU upgrade will see an increase, but this does not necessarily translate proportionally to an increase in performance during actual gameplay at a proper resolution.

Edited, Sep 12th 2013 2:11pm by Raelix
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#27 Sep 12 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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On the upside, the new motherboard can handle a Crossfire - the older one could not.

So if I see another 7770 on the cheap this year (since the card is officially a year old now) I'll grab a second one and see how two of em perform together.
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#28 Sep 12 2013 at 3:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Llester wrote:
DuskCactuar wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
It costs roughly $339 just for the cpu alone.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116901


Dusk's rules to live by #534930891: never buy CPUs from other-than-microcenter.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/413248/Core_i7_4770K_35GHz_Socket_LGA_1150_Boxed_Processor

:)


random rule of mine: never listen to people who talk about themselves in the third person.


Valk has to remember that Smiley: tongue
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#29 Sep 12 2013 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
On the upside, the new motherboard can handle a Crossfire - the older one could not.

You'll see very little increase in the benchmark because you'll just be more CPU-Bound.

I should clarify the 'Feeding a monster' analogue to best illustrate why:

Your CPU feeds your GPU with just a few bowls, which have to be emptied before they can be filled fresh again. There are some fun details about VSync and Triple Buffering that this analogue is also used to explain, but I digress.

Your GPU is damned hungry, but it can only eat so fast. If you put a small bowl in front of it, it empties it in half the time of a bowl twice the size. Resolution is your bowl: It takes even a monster GPU a little longer to empty a large bowl than a small one.

SLI/Crossfire is like having two mouths to feed, but they have to eat from the same bowl. They empty bowls comparatively faster, but refilling those bowls then becomes a problem. This is why SLI/Crossfire only sees performance gains at large resolutions: Bigger bowls to eat.

Your CPU has a pump to fill the bowls. It can pump a given amount of food with other factors like memory and PCIe bandwidth being like the size of the nozzle. The pump is run off the same engine as other stuff like Physics though, so it can be starved for power at times. The CPU can be filling one bowl while the GPU is eating another, but there's still time involved for the CPU to grab and 'wash' and fill another bowl.

The bowls are simply frames. Bowls eaten being frames per second.

When you go to SLI/Crossfire you have two, three, or even four cards eating from the same bowl. Most people think this would double the number of bowls eaten, but their CPU can't pump that much. The cards are starving for more, especially when the bowls are too small, because the CPU doesn't have time to clean and fill even one bowl before they ask for another. When you run a larger resolution then, the CPU spends less time 'washing dishes' and more time filling the larger bowl.

At any rate, the thread title is misleading: Your processor is the problem if your resolution is too low, and the benchmarks run a hilariously low resolution on some settings.

Edited, Sep 12th 2013 3:58pm by Raelix
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#30 Sep 12 2013 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
DragonBourne wrote:
Catwho wrote:

- Both motherboards were gaming MSI "military grade" (whatever that means)


I believe that means if you are gaming and become the victim of a surprise bombing, while you will be obliterated, your motherboards will survive. :P


A friend of mine actually did have his Asus motherboard survive a fire. The plastic case was melted slag, but he managed to get the motherboard out of it and when he fired it up in a new case the motherboard, processor, RAM, and hard drive were still working.


I've always used Asus components and they've never failed. On topic, I did notice that when i upgraded my processor, the performance improved dramatically. which of course is to be expected, given the fail dual core that i had previously.
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#31 Sep 12 2013 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
DragonBourne wrote:
Catwho wrote:

- Both motherboards were gaming MSI "military grade" (whatever that means)


I believe that means if you are gaming and become the victim of a surprise bombing, while you will be obliterated, your motherboards will survive. :P


A friend of mine actually did have his Asus motherboard survive a fire. The plastic case was melted slag, but he managed to get the motherboard out of it and when he fired it up in a new case the motherboard, processor, RAM, and hard drive were still working.


Long as the capacitors remain intact, it will survive.

Which is amazing because heat can make them expand and rupture.

Me want lol
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#32 Sep 12 2013 at 4:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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A couple rules of thumb:

1. Online games usually use much more CPU power than offline games
2. GPU has more effect when playing at high resolutions (typically >1080p) than it does at low resolutions

But, as always, the only way to see whether you will benefit from a certain upgrade is to check where the bottleneck is. Run a program (such as MSI Afterburner) and see what your GPU usage is in the game.

If it's pushing 99% all the time, that means your GPU is the bottleneck, and you will benefit by upgrading your GPU while barely getting any benefit by upgrading your CPU.

If your GPU usage is below 99%, you have a CPU bottleneck, and you will likely get better results by upgrading your CPU.

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#33 Sep 12 2013 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:

Tonight I upgraded from a 2 year old AMD Phenom II x4 to a Core i7 4770K (necessitating a motherboard upgrade at the same time as well, of course.) All other bits of hardware in the system remained the same:


I also upgraded from a Phenom II x4 955 to a 4770K. :)

Prior to that, I upgraded from a GTX 460 to a GTX 660. Although the 660 is about 60% faster than the 460, I received little increase in FPS, as the 2-3 year old Phenom was holding me back.

Now with my 4770K running at 4.7Ghz, I'm glaring at my GTX 660 for becoming the huge bottleneck lol. Waiting next year for 800 series. :)

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#34 Sep 12 2013 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Nah, get the 780 while it's hot. 800 series is lining up to be incremental, like the 9 series to the glorious 8 series.

It's the Star Trek 'Even numbers are the awesome ones, but invert this once you restart the count' paradigm.
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#35 Sep 12 2013 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Raelix wrote:
Catwho wrote:
On the upside, the new motherboard can handle a Crossfire - the older one could not.

You'll see very little increase in the benchmark because you'll just be more CPU-Bound.

FWIW, the HD 7770 is significantly underpowered in a machine with an i7-4770k. The GPU is a generation behind mid-tier card, the CPU is one of the fastest consumer CPUs on the market. You've got a point about the resolution dependence, but even then, she'd see benefit from a GPU upgrade, though it's probably running well as-is.

A more balanced approach (for gaming in particular, at least) if you were buying both from scratch would be an i5-4670k and an HD 7950. Same cost together, just taking $100 out of the CPU and putting it into the GPU. The main difference is the lack of hyperthreading, which tends to be of little value in gaming.

Edited, Sep 12th 2013 8:48pm by bsphil
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#36 Sep 12 2013 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
On the upside, the new motherboard can handle a Crossfire - the older one could not.

So if I see another 7770 on the cheap this year (since the card is officially a year old now) I'll grab a second one and see how two of em perform together.


Not really worth it unless you're planning on running several monitor setups or using the second GPU for physics or boosting AA. I've heard that XIV looks great in surround, but the other benefits wouldn't work.

On their own, SLI and Xfire are roughly 20-30% increase in performance. Only worth it if you can get the second GPU for 20-30% of the price you paid for the first.
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#37 Sep 12 2013 at 10:28 PM Rating: Decent
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The times where SLI/CFX are only 20-30% increase in performance are lonh over.
Of course it's not an 100% increase but in most you'll get 80-95% increase when conditions are right.
Game is demanding enough, CPU is fast enough and so on.
Even microstuttering is becoming better and better these days!
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#38 Sep 12 2013 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Auftragskiller wrote:
The times where SLI/CFX are only 20-30% increase in performance are lonh over.
Of course it's not an 100% increase but in most you'll get 80-95% increase when conditions are right.
Game is demanding enough, CPU is fast enough and so on.
Even microstuttering is becoming better and better these days!

[citation needed]

There are situations where SLI beats single GPU, but they're only where 2 GPUs are cheaper than the single GPU(cases like dual 670s vs a single 690). There are very few cases where adding a second GPU leads to +80% performance increase. You can run at lower settings to improve scaling(why are you buying 2 GPUs to run at medium-high settings?) or shifting the bottleneck from the CPU to the GPU(multiple monitor setups or incredibly high overclocks).

80-95% is by no means normal and by 'performance' I'm speaking about minimum and average FPS, just to be clear.

Edited, Sep 13th 2013 1:26am by FilthMcNasty
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#39 Sep 13 2013 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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I have dual 1080p monitors, for the record.

A third one would be nice but my desk isn't big enough. Smiley: lol
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#40 Sep 13 2013 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
Threx wrote:
Catwho wrote:

Tonight I upgraded from a 2 year old AMD Phenom II x4 to a Core i7 4770K (necessitating a motherboard upgrade at the same time as well, of course.) All other bits of hardware in the system remained the same:


I also upgraded from a Phenom II x4 955 to a 4770K. :)

Prior to that, I upgraded from a GTX 460 to a GTX 660. Although the 660 is about 60% faster than the 460, I received little increase in FPS, as the 2-3 year old Phenom was holding me back.

Now with my 4770K running at 4.7Ghz, I'm glaring at my GTX 660 for becoming the huge bottleneck lol. Waiting next year for 800 series. :)



I recently took the plunge and ordered one of the Korean 1440p monitors that uses the same panel as Apple Cinema Display.

I run a Sandybridge 2500K at 4.2 with no issues and, like you, a GTX 660.

Together they run FF14 at 1440p just fine but I decided to garb another 660 and go SLI instead of ditching it and paying more for a high end 7 series.

I can tell you that the 660's in SLI combined with the 2500K runs the game like butter in 1440 with very few tweaks.

When there's enough "evolution" in everything else to warrant a CPU upgrade I'll make that plunge but ATM everything I;ve seen has shown very little benefit (gamer wise) between the various generations of the "i" CPUs.

#41 Sep 13 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Default
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since we're talking about processors.. how well would this one work then:

4th Generation Intel® Mobile Core i7 4700MQ (Customizable)
#42 Sep 13 2013 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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Without Crossfire wrote:
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-Du kannst selbst bei hoher Grafikeinstellung mit sehr gutem Komfort spielen.

Bildschirmgröße: 1920x1200
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Grafikvoreinstellungen: Maximum


With Crossfire wrote:
FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn-Benchmark (Charaktererschaffung)
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So that's more about 68% better performance with Crossfire for FFXIV.
And that's without even having official support from AMD right now and using 2 old Radeon HD 5850 that don't scale nearly as good as the newer ones. I'm using the SWOTR profile from AMD to get Crossfire to work by the way. So it isn't even optimised for FFXIV.


@Duomaxwellxx
Should be good for a laptop but then it depends on the GFX Card if it is playable.







Edited, Sep 13th 2013 7:48pm by Auftragskiller

Edited, Sep 13th 2013 8:02pm by Auftragskiller
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#43 Sep 13 2013 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Great.

I have a first generation intel i7 950, and it screams. The game puts it at 10-15% tops, and I run nvidia surround on 3 28" monitors at 5760x1200.

Right now, there is a problem with SLI and ffxiv. The performance boost is 10-15% at best, and since I'm spanned across 3 monitors, i actually ahve to lower my settings from max on one monitor with one video card, to low/medium with 2 video cards and 3 monitors. I did not have this problem wtih 1.0, I could completely max everything on surround with my 2 cards, now I'm playing low to mid level? Something is very broken.

HOpefully they'll fix it though.
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#44 Sep 13 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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I was lucky, just before this game was released some kid from craigslist put up his Computer for sale @ $600. Its a Core i5 4 core 3.4GHZ, 8GB RAM, Geforce GTX 660Ti. He also included a 20" HD montior which was a freaking steal. The computer is fairly new and im able to run XiV smooth and pretty on Max settings even during fates, not a lag yet. Perfect timing, glad I got it.
#45 Sep 13 2013 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Auftragskiller wrote:
Without Crossfire wrote:
FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn-Benchmark (Charaktererschaffung)
Bewertungszeit:13.09.2013 19:31:26
Punktzahl:5970
Durchschnittliche Bildrate:50.582

Bewertung:Sehr hoch
-Du kannst selbst bei hoher Grafikeinstellung mit sehr gutem Komfort spielen.

Bildschirmgröße: 1920x1200
Bildschirmmodus: Vollbild
Grafikvoreinstellungen: Maximum


With Crossfire wrote:
FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn-Benchmark (Charaktererschaffung)
Bewertungszeit:13.09.2013 19:37:12
Punktzahl:10066
Durchschnittliche Bildrate:90.585

Bewertung:Extrem hoch
-Du kannst mit allerhöchstem Komfort spielen. Jede Grafikeinstellung kann problemlos gewählt werden.

Bildschirmgröße: 1920x1200
Bildschirmmodus: Vollbild
Grafikvoreinstellungen: Maximum


So that's more about 68% better performance with Crossfire for FFXIV.
And that's without even having official support from AMD right now and using 2 old Radeon HD 5850 that don't scale nearly as good as the newer ones. I'm using the SWOTR profile from AMD to get Crossfire to work by the way. So it isn't even optimised for FFXIV.


@Duomaxwellxx
Should be good for a laptop but then it depends on the GFX Card if it is playable.



my gfx card is gtx 780m which is the equivalent of a pc gtx 680 im sure my gfx is up to par



Edited, Sep 13th 2013 7:48pm by Auftragskiller

Edited, Sep 13th 2013 8:02pm by Auftragskiller

#46 Sep 13 2013 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Raelix wrote:
Catwho wrote:
On the upside, the new motherboard can handle a Crossfire - the older one could not.

You'll see very little increase in the benchmark because you'll just be more CPU-Bound.

FWIW, the HD 7770 is significantly underpowered in a machine with an i7-4770k. The GPU is a generation behind mid-tier card, the CPU is one of the fastest consumer CPUs on the market. You've got a point about the resolution dependence, but even then, she'd see benefit from a GPU upgrade, though it's probably running well as-is.

Context was the benchmark, which ones 1024x768 at the Medium setting best I know. It could still be CPU bound at that resolution even with an i7 in a single threaded application, and SLI certainly would be.
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#47 Sep 13 2013 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Raelix wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Raelix wrote:
Catwho wrote:
On the upside, the new motherboard can handle a Crossfire - the older one could not.

You'll see very little increase in the benchmark because you'll just be more CPU-Bound.

FWIW, the HD 7770 is significantly underpowered in a machine with an i7-4770k. The GPU is a generation behind mid-tier card, the CPU is one of the fastest consumer CPUs on the market. You've got a point about the resolution dependence, but even then, she'd see benefit from a GPU upgrade, though it's probably running well as-is.

Context was the benchmark, which ones 1024x768 at the Medium setting best I know. It could still be CPU bound at that resolution even with an i7 in a single threaded application, and SLI certainly would be.

Ahh sorry, that's a good point. The benchmark I downloaded a couple days ago doesn't even have a "medium" setting, and the default resolution is 1280x720.
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#48 Sep 13 2013 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
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clanofthekestrel wrote:
When there's enough "evolution" in everything else to warrant a CPU upgrade I'll make that plunge but ATM everything I;ve seen has shown very little benefit (gamer wise) between the various generations of the "i" CPUs.

There generally isn't much difference. I was hoping that the coming generations would have higher FSB but they're mostly just smaller architecture, less heat, ect.

Auftragskiller wrote:
So that's more about 68% better performance with Crossfire for FFXIV.
And that's without even having official support from AMD right now and using 2 old Radeon HD 5850 that don't scale nearly as good as the newer ones. I'm using the SWOTR profile from AMD to get Crossfire to work by the way. So it isn't even optimised for FFXIV.

Are these your own personal benchmark scores? What processor are you using and what clocks is it running at?






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#49 Sep 13 2013 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes These are my personal scores.

System:
Core i7-950 @3.65ghz
24gb DDR3 1600 tripple Channel
2x Radeon 5850 1gb

Will do some tests with higher CPU clocks tomorrow.
Resolution was 1900x1200 at Max Settings
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#50 Sep 13 2013 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd suggest doing testing with something more substantial like Heaven benchmark. Nothing against XIV, but it's kind of a joke. Something like Unigine's Heaven 4 on max settings is something that will actually stress your GPUs. That and the output also tracks your minimum FPS iirc.

I don't really call average FPS a real indicator of performance, especially when most benchmarks don't spend most of their time at a high load. For me at least, the most important indicator of performance is how your GPU(s) hold up when they're pushed to the limit. I don't really give a **** if I can get 130 FPS standing alone in a field. I'd feel much more satisfied knowing that I can maintain 50 FPS when rockets are leveling buildings, shells are tearing tanks to shreds and my screen is filled with so much shrapnel I literally duck in my chair Smiley: nod

Try running Heaven at stock clocks single GPU then Xfire and then try again at a stable overclock on the CPU.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#51 Oct 01 2013 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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So, I bought an HD7950 on sale the other day to replace my HD6850.

I play at 1680x1050 for now, and have the GPU overclocked to 1000Mhz core/1400Mhz mem. Powering this is still my i5 4670k @ 4.2 Ghz and 8 GB DDR3.

Even with a close to top-of-the-line processor, I still average around 50 FPS in the market areas in town, with the GPU usage close to 70%.

This game (as with most MMOs) is definitely CPU limited when large numbers of characters are on screen.

On a side note, the CPU usage peaks around 80% on a quad-core. SE did a pretty good job with the multithreading, it seems.

Edited, Oct 1st 2013 5:36pm by Pickins
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