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Will the game last 12 months?Follow

#102 Sep 17 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
FFXIV will last as long as the players support it. I don't see why people are making these doom and gloom predictions in the first 30 day window. There are players who level faster than others, that doesn't mean the game is doomed. I knew players that leveled BLU in one day back when leveling in FFXI actually was a chore to do. Those same players had almost none of the learned spells and has terrible gear. My point is that the people in a rush won't stick around so don't worry about what they do. The majority of non legacy players are just reaching their 30-40's right now.


1 day to get BLU to 75? It took me 4 months to get to 75 and got all the spells. That body slam spell is a pain in the *** to get.
#103 Sep 17 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Jeskradha wrote:
Anyone who played WoW, for any extended period of time, almost certainly had most of the major professions maxed, when I quit playing wow about 6 months ago, I had max enchanting/tailoring on my warlock, max mining/blacksmithing on my death knight, max herblism/alchemy/fishing/cooking on my rogue, I had a 64 Mage with engineering (which is a pretty worthless profession anyways), and my paladin was just getting into mists recipes for jewel crafting


Not everyone who played had several characters(yeah, I went there) with maxed professions spreading across them. Professions tended to be optimized based on the role of the class. I wouldn't say it was unlikely that people didn't have farming alts with 2 of the gathering professions, but the point I was making was that you were limited. Limited to capping only two professions outside cooking/fishing/firstaid.

Jeskradha wrote:
Honestly the only good thing about professions were stuff like extra gem slots from blacksmithing and so on, its not like people were raiding end game content in stuff I crafted on my blacksmith, amirite!!??!?!??!??!??


Actually no, no you're not. Almost every numbered patch has introduced at least a few pieces of crafted gear for all professions that make gear. This was crafted gear that matched the item level of the normal difficulty raids. I wasn't doing heroics this tier due to lack of time, but I cleared normal up to Ra-den and I'm still wearing the great sword I crafted using... blacksmithing. How ironic Smiley: sly

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 5:28pm by FilthMcNasty
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#104 Sep 17 2013 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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IMFW wrote:
Im a huge fan of the Materia systume, been putting materia in my gear since level 15, i just hope there is some tough fights ahead of me, im level 26 gladiator just beat toto-rak and with HQ materia melded gear these dungeon mobs dont even phase me, i love tough fights but since i make my own gear (because i find it fun) now the dungeons are way to easy so far. I wish there was a level incressing thing for dungeons like there is for levequests.


If you're looking for tough fights, they're coming. The dungeons take a big difficulty spike when you hit Brayflox's Longstop (maybe earlier at Haakue Manor depending on how good with the game you are by then), and you'll definitely notice. The next primal for you, Titan, WILL wipe you at least once, I guarantee it, unless you get a really good group. It only gets worse from there (I finally cleared The Sunken Temple of Qarn, an optional dungeon, after 3 days of trying to clear it; the first mini boss and the final boss were nightmares for the groups I ran with). But I'm not complaining, I'm definitely loving the challenge. I think the increasing difficulty is just right; I may not clear an instance on my first try, I might not clear it on my fifth try, **** I might not clear it on my tenth try, but I know that eventually I will figure out what needs to be done and clear the instance and celebrate, and not once have I felt like I've been asked to do something that just feels completely unreasonable, unlike a certain other Final Fantasy MMO, particularity said certain FF MMO's second expansion at it's prime...
#105 Sep 17 2013 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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Jeskradha wrote:
Honestly the only good thing about professions were stuff like extra gem slots from blacksmithing and so on, its not like people were raiding end game content in stuff I crafted on my blacksmith, amirite!!??!?!??!??!??


FilthMcNasty wrote:
I wasn't doing heroics this tier due to lack of time, but I cleared normal up to Ra-den and I'm still wearing the great sword I crafted using... blacksmithing. How ironic Smiley: sly


Honestly to me, it always seemed like blacksmithing or tailoring were there so you could craft items to fill in gaps in your gear sets, except if you consistently ran heroics, you ended up never needing it.

The only examples I can think of were a profession was necessary was in Burning Crusade with the tailoring frozen shadow weave set being BIS up until later teirs of raiding, Which Blizzard admitted was a mistake. Also In wrath they had a craft-able mace, The Titansteel Destoyer, which was a must have for deathknights or plate melee dps pre-naxx/heroic dungeons, which Blizzard also admitted was a mistake because they didn't want to pigeon hole people into a "you must have this" situation.
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#106 Sep 17 2013 at 5:06 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
You most certainly did. If you didn't then you were severely gimped and doing it wrong. Did you never open your bags? They were made by a tailor. You never ate food or a flask for a raid? They were made by cooks and alchemists. Did you keep your gear updated with gems and enchants? Jewelcrafting, enchanting, leatherworking and blacksmithing all played a part here. So on and so forth.


Uh...you went from a statement of, "You had to rely on crafters every time you logged on." to this stuff.

I didn't raid every time I logged on. Bags could be bought from vendors initially and you can have every profession on different alts. Not really any different from 14.

But we can make some comparisons.

Still using vendor-bought food? Well, that's gimping yourself. Culinarians make the good stuff!

Need a better weapon? Well, crafters make several neat things: weapons that can be melded with materia to be better than the primal weapons and relic pre-requisites.

When you do buy that relic pre-req, btw, you'll need to have 2 materia melded into it. You could NOT be lazy and go spirit bond some gear to yourself and then assimilate it...or you could just find it on the market. Alas, one thing you cannot avoid is having a level 50 crafter meld that materia into your weapon for you.

Right now, there is a HUGE influx of raw materials on the market causing deflation. This is expected as the game was just released and the market has been active for less than a month. After everyone is done selling their quest drops and materials gained from killing monsters, the market will stabilize.

It's amazing how people have already figured that the market in FFXIV is due for imminent failure any day now and will collapse when it has barely been able to stabilize itself due to its own release.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
The question you raise is a brilliant example(I'm not being sarcastic either). Think about it. In XIV you can raise all professions to cap. Now extrapolate that out and apply it to the real world. What if everyone on earth was completely self sufficient? What if you went to university and graduated with a degree in everything? If you're completely self-sufficient and can do anything then you have no need for anyone else.

You kinda made my point for me here, possibly without realizing it. In WoW and even in FFXI you're forced to make the decision on what to specialize in just as you are in the real world. If you can do everything on your own then you don't need anyone for anything at all. How does that bode for the economy? Supply and what? Yeah...


Um...you know what alts are, correct?

So are you telling me you DIDN'T have multiple characters in WoW with different professions on each? Did you choose tailoring and enchanting every time?

Well, for those of us who did have many different classes/alts, I can tell you I rarely had to rely on others for anything when it came to endgame crap because I could make it myself or at least procure the material to have another crafter do it for a tip. You know: like materia melding is now.

Did WoW's economy crash and burn due to the ability to create multiple alts with all the professions? No I didn't think so.

Funny you should mention supply and demand considering what I mentioned above: there is a huge influx of raw materials due to the huge rush to 50. Currently, there is too much supply. Your prediction is it will stay that way forever. My prediction is that a degree in economics is not in your future.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Humor me for a minute here.


OK.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I have no problem with SE borrowing on other people's ideas. It would be nice to see some expansion on said ideas that works well with their mechanics, but it doesn't bother me that it looks almost identical. Their issue is, they didn't completely rip what was there and build on it. Mechanics borrowed from other games are implemented to fit those specific games and their own set of mechanics. SE is behind the ball when it comes to adjusting older ideas to fit their currently planned progression of the game into the future.


May you succeed in game design where you failed in economics!

FilthMcNasty wrote:
We're 3 years out already on this journey.


And math.
#107 Sep 17 2013 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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tl;dr, but I did pick up a bit of the story from multiple sides.

So far I do enjoy the game, but I can see the problem of not enough social interaction in the game. I do think the auto-group feature is actually a blessing. Job discrimination was a serious problem in FFXI, and being party leader in FFXI can be quite annoying (I had done it many times). The auto-group thing takes that out of the equation at least for the contents that will be shared by many players (the central storyline of the game). The dungeons are really quite fun, and repeating old dungeons just for fun is actually not a bad experience at all. (I smirked on the deadpan humorous choice of "Greed" for chest loots...)

The problem with interaction is more than just how grouping set up. I play on PS3, and it is HARD to chat with a controller if you want to chat. The game controls do blends in well with the PS controller. It goes back to the old joke how much Nintendo engineers like to brag how their games work well with their new controller (laugh). I guess it is give and take - when you increase the usability of the game controller, you will trade off somewhere else. If there is a positive trade-off of reduced in-game chit chat is the reduction of drama. FYI, SE has a full FF14 social website backing the game with Facebook-like functions (I do profess that I am not fan of FB mostly on privacy grounds) and character search functions across ALL servers. I encourage people to check that out.

You will always get those people who rush through the game and complain. There is nothing you can do about those folks. I am not seriously concerned with some players already at level cap from beta. Many players from different MMO do stick around after hitting cap, and many of them are not wah-wah-wah-boring folks. I also do not find the game level too fast (don't get me started on FFXI, I want to refrain talking about levelling speed in FFXI before I quit). Much of the levelling process is a bit more interactive than many MMOs out there, but I do wish they spread out FATE a bit more.

It is too early to tell how the game will expand itself. For the contents I have played up to (I am around level 30), I think there are places the stories that are not fully resolved (I may be wrong).
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#108 Sep 17 2013 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
You most certainly did. If you didn't then you were severely gimped and doing it wrong. Did you never open your bags? They were made by a tailor. You never ate food or a flask for a raid? They were made by cooks and alchemists. Did you keep your gear updated with gems and enchants? Jewelcrafting, enchanting, leatherworking and blacksmithing all played a part here. So on and so forth.


Uh...you went from a statement of, "You had to rely on crafters every time you logged on." to this stuff.

I didn't raid every time I logged on. Bags could be bought from vendors initially and you can have every profession on different alts. Not really any different from 14.


Maybe it was slightly exaggerated, but there wasn't a day that I logged into WoW that I didn't use something that either I or someone else crafted. There isn't an expansion that has gone by that hasn't presented crafters in WoW the chance to make money on goods and it's all possible because the game doesn't have the 'Jack of all trades, master of all' mentality.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Right now, there is a HUGE influx of raw materials on the market causing deflation. This is expected as the game was just released and the market has been active for less than a month. After everyone is done selling their quest drops and materials gained from killing monsters, the market will stabilize.


Again, you're still missing the point. The market is almost non-existent because of the ease with which people can obtain necessary items on their own. Why would I buy your materials when I can just go gather them myself? Not only am I getting the items cheaper, but I have the added incentive of leveling up a craft. There is no specialization. The market is homogenized and is suffering as a result of that.

The comparison doesn't carry over to WoW because of the gambit. You're forced to choose whether you want to roll a grip of alts to cap your professions or just farm and buy those for sale from others.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
So are you telling me you DIDN'T have multiple characters in WoW with different professions on each? Did you choose tailoring and enchanting every time?


I have every class in WoW at or above 85 with the exception of a monk which is 67. 11 characters who between them have different combinations of professions. My main is the only character with cooking, fishing, archaeology and first aid maxed out. He also has (go figure) tailoring and enchanting. If not for the fact that I went all out completionist and got all of the patterns and formulae, I'd be running tailoring and engineering. Across the rest of the characters I have 4 other professions capped. They are engineering, mining, blacksmithing and jewelcrafting. The monk I was working on started herbalism just for the experience perk, but I don't and never really intended to cap it. That leaves herbalism, alchemy, skinning, leatherworking(which I might drop mining for) and inscription.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Did WoW's economy crash and burn due to the ability to create multiple alts with all the professions? No I didn't think so.


People don't level classes they may or may not enjoy playing in WoW just so they can save a few pieces of gold on an item or consumable. That effort is better spent either straight up farming or gathering materials to craft items you have the professions for to sell and then buy what you need. That's just common sense. If you're any kind of serious about your class, there are specific combinations of professions that you will benefit from more than if you just spread it all out.

Yes, yet another reason to specialize.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Funny you should mention supply and demand considering what I mentioned above: there is a huge influx of raw materials due to the huge rush to 50. Currently, there is too much supply. Your prediction is it will stay that way forever. My prediction is that a degree in economics is not in your future.


The supply is there because everyone and their dog is capable of taking up any profession. There is always a rush to cap in WoW when an expansion is released. The reason the influx of new is much smaller is that not everyone is capable of gathering or crafting said materials. This from a game where the server populations are multiples of what you find in XIV currently. Is this sinking in at all for you? I feel like a broken record, but you seem to be ignoring a pretty plain idea. I dunno if you just don't want to agree with me or what, but it's not a good look.

As for the bolded, I never said it would be that way forever. SE could increase the cap on professions but require that you specialize and pick only one or two to take beyond 50 similar to how it worked in FFXI. It's not too late to make the adjustments, but it's clearly not working now.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
We're 3 years out already on this journey.
[May you succeed in game design where you failed in] math.


FFXIV was released in the end of September, 2010. It is currently the end of September, 2013.

2013 - 2010 != 3 ? Not specific enough perhaps? Would you prefer that I amend my post to say that it's a few weeks short of 3 years? Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 8:05pm by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#109 Sep 17 2013 at 6:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Just want to comment on the overflow of gear in the game. Yes... FFXIV cash ("gil") is king (at least for now). Due to the way equipment sets up, there are basically no secondary market for any used gear. How this will pan out in the future - I am not sure; but I think for now, it works in the benefit for casual players, so they can gear up at reasonable price.

I think it is a smart idea to withheld retainers till some levels. Real new players are not be hurt for the lack of ability to sell on the market board or not having a mule. It also selectively hurts RMT as they cannot trade items and game money just by creating a lot of new characters or level the character without doing any quests.

I do find it strange some people sell things on the market board for less than how much you will sell it to NPC - to be frank that happened when I played FFXI (laugh).
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beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
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A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
#110 Sep 17 2013 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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scchan wrote:
I do find it strange some people sell things on the market board for less than how much you will sell it to NPC - to be frank that happened when I played FFXI (laugh).


I made several million gil in FFXI by simply purchasing items from auction, taking two steps and immediately selling them to vendor.

I'm laughing straight to the bank with this (Ha ha huh haaaa) Smiley: sly
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#111 Sep 17 2013 at 6:21 PM Rating: Good
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Isn't guild wars kind of the same? Where you can pretty much do every profession on the same character? And you could gather everything with one toon, as in everyone could mine/whatever. I mean honestly this makes the most sense to me, just cause then I can try out other professions with out dropping my max level enchanting or whatever.

Is the economy in GW2 screwed?

I haven't played in awhile, but to me the market on GW was a breath of fresh air. It was so annoying in WoW to go to the auction house to buy some Mithril ore or something, and one guy owns the market and is selling stacks of 20 for 500g a piece. Which is why it was always more to your benefit to just level all the professions your self.

In GW I always felt like the mats on the AH were priced appropriately compared to their level/rarity.

Honestly I think your over emphasizing the importance of professions in WoW.

I haven't even scratched the surface on any of the DOH DOL jobs in FF 14, I plan to as soon as I hit 50, and I want to get it done soon cause it doesn't take a genius to know that prices on matt's are going to go up once there are not so many people leveling
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#112 Sep 17 2013 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
scchan wrote:
I do find it strange some people sell things on the market board for less than how much you will sell it to NPC - to be frank that happened when I played FFXI (laugh).


I made several million gil in FFXI by simply purchasing items from auction, taking two steps and immediately selling them to vendor.

I'm laughing straight to the bank with this (Ha ha huh haaaa) Smiley: sly



Beds. Beds. Beds.

Would buy out Jeuno and profit in Windurst. That was fun stuff.

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#113 Sep 17 2013 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
Jeskradha wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
You most certainly did. If you didn't then you were severely gimped and doing it wrong. Did you never open your bags? They were made by a tailor. You never ate food or a flask for a raid? They were made by cooks and alchemists. Did you keep your gear updated with gems and enchants? Jewelcrafting, enchanting, leatherworking and blacksmithing all played a part here. So on and so forth.


Anyone who played WoW, for any extended period of time, almost certainly had most of the major professions maxed, when I quit playing wow about 6 months ago, I had max enchanting/tailoring on my warlock, max mining/blacksmithing on my death knight, max herblism/alchemy/fishing/cooking on my rogue, I had a 64 Mage with engineering (which is a pretty worthless profession anyways), and my paladin was just getting into mists recipes for jewel crafting,

Honestly the only good thing about professions were stuff like extra gem slots from blacksmithing and so on, its not like people were raiding end game content in stuff I crafted on my blacksmith, amirite!!??!?!??!??!??

o wait, there were raiding in the bags i made on my tailor, lolololol


I don't see this, really. I know some guys that have years of logged on playtime that have all profs maxed, and I know many that don't. Some people would rather not waste their time with it and just buy what they need from people. Either way, even after 3 years of being around, the majority of the playerbase still did not have every profession maxed. We're talking pre WotLK 3 years in to release, right? Players still buy crafted epics to raise their iLevel or fill spots they haven't yet gotten a drop to replace. Some of those items actually last months depending on how far in to heroic raiding you may be. The economy is alive and well and people are shouting for people to craft things for them all day, even 9 years after launch. This may sound weird, but even with mining/herbalism maxed on a couple of my characters, I still buy stacks of ore/herbs to make stuff. I have the gold to buy it and it helps out the guy who makes his money gathering while I still make a profit on my synth.

I'm not arguing for either game. I really like them both. I just don't agree that WoW's crafting/economy are inferior or equal with ARR's. But who cares, I can't play ARR anymore anyway! Smiley: lol
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#114 Sep 17 2013 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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ShindaUsagi wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
scchan wrote:
I do find it strange some people sell things on the market board for less than how much you will sell it to NPC - to be frank that happened when I played FFXI (laugh).


I made several million gil in FFXI by simply purchasing items from auction, taking two steps and immediately selling them to vendor.

I'm laughing straight to the bank with this (Ha ha huh haaaa) Smiley: sly



Beds. Beds. Beds.

Would buy out Jeuno and profit in Windurst. That was fun stuff.



I had done that once a while, but not that often in FFXI.

A large difference with FFXI AH and the FF14 market is that the market board listing window actually tells you HOW MUCH you can sell the item to the NPC (in which FFXI AH window won't).

If there is sad thing about retainers, names like "Kupipi" got taken quickly, and I don't want to call my retainer "Kupipitwo" or "Kupipithree"!
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-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand

A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
#115 Sep 17 2013 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I think, that after the 30 day included subscription many of our younger players (< 18) will drop. In 12 months, I feel most who would have made it in the FFXI community (normally more mature) will stay with a few new pick ups. I really think the "WoW types" will leave soon, especially when they release new content. The JPN community is going nuts on how easy this game is (compared to FFXI) and I think SE will stick with their demands, regardless of potential revenue from the west...

I say when they raise the lvl cap to 75, those familiar with FFXI will know who's staying and who's leaving... 1-50 in XI was kind of easy too (but not this easy)
#116 Sep 17 2013 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Arcari wrote:
IMFW wrote:
Im a huge fan of the Materia systume, been putting materia in my gear since level 15, i just hope there is some tough fights ahead of me, im level 26 gladiator just beat toto-rak and with HQ materia melded gear these dungeon mobs dont even phase me, i love tough fights but since i make my own gear (because i find it fun) now the dungeons are way to easy so far. I wish there was a level incressing thing for dungeons like there is for levequests.


If you're looking for tough fights, they're coming. The dungeons take a big difficulty spike when you hit Brayflox's Longstop (maybe earlier at Haakue Manor depending on how good with the game you are by then), and you'll definitely notice. The next primal for you, Titan, WILL wipe you at least once, I guarantee it, unless you get a really good group. It only gets worse from there (I finally cleared The Sunken Temple of Qarn, an optional dungeon, after 3 days of trying to clear it; the first mini boss and the final boss were nightmares for the groups I ran with). But I'm not complaining, I'm definitely loving the challenge. I think the increasing difficulty is just right; I may not clear an instance on my first try, I might not clear it on my fifth try, **** I might not clear it on my tenth try, but I know that eventually I will figure out what needs to be done and clear the instance and celebrate, and not once have I felt like I've been asked to do something that just feels completely unreasonable, unlike a certain other Final Fantasy MMO, particularity said certain FF MMO's second expansion at it's prime...



Sweet, thats good to know, i am really looking forward to the dungeons comeing up! Stoked to try my gear out!
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#117 Sep 17 2013 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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IMFW wrote:
Arcari wrote:
IMFW wrote:
Im a huge fan of the Materia systume, been putting materia in my gear since level 15, i just hope there is some tough fights ahead of me, im level 26 gladiator just beat toto-rak and with HQ materia melded gear these dungeon mobs dont even phase me, i love tough fights but since i make my own gear (because i find it fun) now the dungeons are way to easy so far. I wish there was a level incressing thing for dungeons like there is for levequests.


If you're looking for tough fights, they're coming. The dungeons take a big difficulty spike when you hit Brayflox's Longstop (maybe earlier at Haakue Manor depending on how good with the game you are by then), and you'll definitely notice. The next primal for you, Titan, WILL wipe you at least once, I guarantee it, unless you get a really good group. It only gets worse from there (I finally cleared The Sunken Temple of Qarn, an optional dungeon, after 3 days of trying to clear it; the first mini boss and the final boss were nightmares for the groups I ran with). But I'm not complaining, I'm definitely loving the challenge. I think the increasing difficulty is just right; I may not clear an instance on my first try, I might not clear it on my fifth try, **** I might not clear it on my tenth try, but I know that eventually I will figure out what needs to be done and clear the instance and celebrate, and not once have I felt like I've been asked to do something that just feels completely unreasonable, unlike a certain other Final Fantasy MMO, particularity said certain FF MMO's second expansion at it's prime...



Sweet, thats good to know, i am really looking forward to the dungeons comeing up! Stoked to try my gear out!


Titan is next for me. If I wipe I'm totally blaming the tank!

Or YouTube. 'Cause you know. I'm totally hardcore like that.


Edited, Sep 17th 2013 9:28pm by ShindaUsagi
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#118 Sep 17 2013 at 8:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just a comment on "no secondary market for used gear" - Because old gear is meant to be turned into materia once it's used up, there's no market for used gear. But you can bet there is a market for fresh lowbie gear crafted by weavers and leatherworkers.
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#119 Sep 17 2013 at 9:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jeskradha wrote:
Isn't guild wars kind of the same? Where you can pretty much do every profession on the same character? And you could gather everything with one toon, as in everyone could mine/whatever. I mean honestly this makes the most sense to me, just cause then I can try out other professions with out dropping my max level enchanting or whatever.

Is the economy in GW2 screwed?

I haven't played in awhile, but to me the market on GW was a breath of fresh air. It was so annoying in WoW to go to the auction house to buy some Mithril ore or something, and one guy owns the market and is selling stacks of 20 for 500g a piece. Which is why it was always more to your benefit to just level all the professions your self.

In GW I always felt like the mats on the AH were priced appropriately compared to their level/rarity.

Honestly I think your over emphasizing the importance of professions in WoW.

I haven't even scratched the surface on any of the DOH DOL jobs in FF 14, I plan to as soon as I hit 50, and I want to get it done soon cause it doesn't take a genius to know that prices on matt's are going to go up once there are not so many people leveling


In GW2, crafting is commonly seen as something people blitz to cap multiple times in a single day in order to level up an alternate character to 80 so they can bypass the rest of the game. Armor drops so common and so easily thrown up on the trading post that most of it sells for one copper piece above vendor price because that is the absolute cheapest it can possibly be sold for. I haven't played in a month or so, but I've read that in the most recent patch, they actually added a way for players to turn their blue/green armor drops into a permanent magic find boost on their account, because blue and green armor was so incredibly common and useless that having a way to burn through it was better than having it fill all of your bag slots every time you play the game so that players seek out a vendor to sell dozens of useless drops.

Guild Wars 2 is probably a shining example of how to make 99% of drops and crafted items completely worthless, with a remaining 1% of rare items that people find desirable.

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 11:34pm by Susanoh
#120 Sep 17 2013 at 9:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Transmigration the Charming wrote:
Jeskradha wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
You most certainly did. If you didn't then you were severely gimped and doing it wrong. Did you never open your bags? They were made by a tailor. You never ate food or a flask for a raid? They were made by cooks and alchemists. Did you keep your gear updated with gems and enchants? Jewelcrafting, enchanting, leatherworking and blacksmithing all played a part here. So on and so forth.


Anyone who played WoW, for any extended period of time, almost certainly had most of the major professions maxed, when I quit playing wow about 6 months ago, I had max enchanting/tailoring on my warlock, max mining/blacksmithing on my death knight, max herblism/alchemy/fishing/cooking on my rogue, I had a 64 Mage with engineering (which is a pretty worthless profession anyways), and my paladin was just getting into mists recipes for jewel crafting,

Honestly the only good thing about professions were stuff like extra gem slots from blacksmithing and so on, its not like people were raiding end game content in stuff I crafted on my blacksmith, amirite!!??!?!??!??!??

o wait, there were raiding in the bags i made on my tailor, lolololol


I don't see this, really. I know some guys that have years of logged on playtime that have all profs maxed, and I know many that don't. Some people would rather not waste their time with it and just buy what they need from people. Either way, even after 3 years of being around, the majority of the playerbase still did not have every profession maxed. We're talking pre WotLK 3 years in to release, right? Players still buy crafted epics to raise their iLevel or fill spots they haven't yet gotten a drop to replace. Some of those items actually last months depending on how far in to heroic raiding you may be. The economy is alive and well and people are shouting for people to craft things for them all day, even 9 years after launch. This may sound weird, but even with mining/herbalism maxed on a couple of my characters, I still buy stacks of ore/herbs to make stuff. I have the gold to buy it and it helps out the guy who makes his money gathering while I still make a profit on my synth.

I'm not arguing for either game. I really like them both. I just don't agree that WoW's crafting/economy are inferior or equal with ARR's. But who cares, I can't play ARR anymore anyway! Smiley: lol


But this is a nice point you've made, Trans.

It wasn't too hard to max every profession since you could have your alt choose two different ones than your other alts and main.

Alchemy
Herbalism

Blacksmithing
Mining

Tailoring
Enchanting

Skinning
Leatherworking

Engineering
Jewelcrafting

Inscription
Archaeology

That's 5 alts with one main. I don't know about you, but I had at least 6 characters on any given server at a time. Leveling in WoW, especially with heirlooms now days, is super fast. In fact...one might even compare it to FATE grinding. Except the FATEs are instanced.

Yes, our characters have access to every single craft. Are we going to realistically level them all to 50 and use them? Probably not. I will probably touch upon one craft in FFXIV just like I did in FFXI.

This 'self-sufficient' stuff that is being spouted since there is a possibility to level all crafts to 50 is almost as bad as the exaggerated 4 hour queues.

As I type this, I am currently staring at the market board for gathering (botanist) gear/tools. 3180 gil on a new set of armor/weapons for just botany alone since the quest only let me select one of the pieces. As a leveling tank, you can be sure I'll be checking the AH, just like I did in FFXI, for the best gear for that particular level. I do dungeons quite a bit and tend to ignore FATEs until later on.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 2:46am by HitomeOfBismarck
#121 Sep 17 2013 at 11:42 PM Rating: Default
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
That's 5 alts with one main. I don't know about you, but I had at least 6 characters on any given server at a time. Leveling in WoW, especially with heirlooms now days, is super fast. In fact...one might even compare it to FATE grinding. Except the FATEs are instanced.

Now you're just being unreasonable. Downright silly.

Yes, you can make 5 alts and spend the time and money leveling up, riding around to pick up recipes and actually skill up the crafts. Or, you could farm mats for your own craft, sell your goods and buy whatever you needed. You could farm cloth or gold and sell that. ****, you could farm dailies and afford materials for what you needed.

If you wasted the time leveling up all crafts to save a few buck, you're doinitwrong. The main selling point of professions in WoW is the ability to make the gear, or get the enhancements or buffs they provide; not saving a few gold at the cost of a metric asston of time. It takes days of playtime to level a class to cap. My best time from 1-85 speed run was just under 5 days. That's 120 hours spent leveling a class that could have been more productive simply farming on a class I already had capped. Nevermind the time to farm gold or mats to level the professions and the time necessary to level the professions themselves.

And you think I needed a math lesson Smiley: oyvey

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
This 'self-sufficient' BS that is being spouted since there is a possibility to level all crafts to 50 is almost as bad as the exaggerated 4 hour queues.


No one is suggesting that everyone will level every class, job and profession to cap. That said, it's not unreasonable that people would level all of the professions that support their favorite or most used classes.

I plan on playing paladin and warrior. You say you mainly level with dungeons and a side of FATEs. If you stockpile leves then crafting to cap is a joke. It won't take much for me to be able to completely support all my needs as far as professions go. I will have 0 need to buy or trade for materials to and from anyone to completely support myself. If you can't see how that impacts the economy then I really don't know what to say at this point. It's pretty obvious to most anyone who can think about it rationally.

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#122 Sep 18 2013 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
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You know...I originally edited my above post to retract some of the negativity in them and just discuss the issues. I had assumed I was debating with a mature individual but I see that isn't the case.

Let's play your game. You know? The one where you pick a post, debate with the user, then when the user corners you, you state to the user, "You clearly don't understand."

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Maybe it was slightly exaggerated, but there wasn't a day that I logged into WoW that I didn't use something that either I or someone else crafted. There isn't an expansion that has gone by that hasn't presented crafters in WoW the chance to make money on goods and it's all possible because the game doesn't have the 'Jack of all trades, master of all' mentality.


Uh that's the point: It was an exaggeration. It was so exaggerated that it is comparable to the whining over an alleged 4 hour queue which is unlikely.

And yet, you can master all professions in WoW yet you refuse to ignore this fact. Since you can master all professions in WoW, we should see a huge problem in WoW's economy but..wait: there isn't one.

Furthermore, I hope you remember how things were in Vanilla's release. You don't? Let me give you a hint: what is FFXIV ARR's market doing right now?

Yet another point is the fact that, WHILE you can level all crafts to 50 in 14, most will not. You even handed me my own retort: you stated you had a bunch of alts (more than 6) which covers every single profession yet you seem to have only leveled the professions for achievement points. Let's be very explicit here: both WoW and FFXIV allow you the ability to master all crafts and professions but a majority of players do not do so in either game.

That's OK. If you wish to be ignorant to these simple facts, be my guest.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Again, you're still missing the point. The market is almost non-existent because of the ease with which people can obtain necessary items on their own. Why would I buy your materials when I can just go gather them myself? Not only am I getting the items cheaper, but I have the added incentive of leveling up a craft. There is no specialization. The market is homogenized and is suffering as a result of that.

The comparison doesn't carry over to WoW because of the gambit. You're forced to choose whether you want to roll a grip of alts to cap your professions or just farm and buy those for sale from others.


Again, you are missing the point. The market is non-existent because the game was just released. As people rushed their way to 50, they started to stick their quest rewards and crafting items up on the market. This has caused massive deflation of many raw crafting materials.

To see why your little explanation fails, it's easy to look at a section of the market that is actually productive (not suffering from deflation) yet contains MORE of the raw material than the crafting raw materials.

Crystals are used by just about every craft. There will always be a demand for them. Furthermore, you often did NOT receive a majority of the crystals while leveling up. I think you maybe had one ice cluster at level 50 due to the storyline reward.

So here's the conclusion we can easily draw:

Crystals are a profitable market that are gathered and put on the market. They are not obtained through quests and monster drops do not supply a sufficient quantity.

The crystal market is currently filled to the brim with stacks of 999 for pages and yet these crystals are not 1 g, 2 g, or even 5 g: they're usually upwards of 35 g.

On the other hand, let's look at raw materials. You obtain quite a few of these from quest rewards, drops from monsters, dungeons, and quests. There are a ton of these items on the market yet they sell for 1~2 g a piece (vendor piece).

Two situations: both have a large supply yet one has low demand and the other has high demand. Why is that? Obviously because the ways you primarily obtain the crystals are not through the grind to 50 but from gathering.

Droves of people leveling to 50 = putting raw materials up on market that they've obtained from leveling -= massive deflation

This is pretty simple...one would think, again.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I have every class in WoW at or above 85 with the exception of a monk which is 67. 11 characters who between them have different combinations of professions. My main is the only character with cooking, fishing, archaeology and first aid maxed out. He also has (go figure) tailoring and enchanting. If not for the fact that I went all out completionist and got all of the patterns and formulae, I'd be running tailoring and engineering. Across the rest of the characters I have 4 other professions capped. They are engineering, mining, blacksmithing and jewelcrafting. The monk I was working on started herbalism just for the experience perk, but I don't and never really intended to cap it. That leaves herbalism, alchemy, skinning, leatherworking(which I might drop mining for) and inscription.


Great so you have no excuse to not have every profession capped. But wait: you seem to not have them all capped despite how easy it is to level a profession in WoW. Why is that? Because it's too much of a burden. Let's see..where can I find a parallel..oh! That's right. FFXIV has the same system. You have access to all the professions. Do you think the average person will level them all? I'll give you a hint: no.

The situation you described where everyone becomes self-sufficient by leveling all crafts is not only NOT realistic but also shows you are incapable of applying basic logic to ascertain cause and effect relationships.

You also seem to have stuck yourself in a hole here. You didn't level every profession in WoW to max yet you had enough characters to do so. Why is that? Because it is too much of a hassle and you relied on the AH to get what you couldn't craft. Guess what you (and a majority of other players) will be doing in this game? No hint this time.

Moving on.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
People don't level classes they may or may not enjoy playing in WoW just so they can save a few pieces of gold on an item or consumable. That effort is better spent either straight up farming or gathering materials to craft items you have the professions for to sell and then buy what you need. That's just common sense. If you're any kind of serious about your class, there are specific combinations of professions that you will benefit from more than if you just spread it all out.


Um...no they level classes because it allows them to bring another role to the raid or allows them to do PVP as another role. The benefit is that you can also choose two professions for this alt.

These 'benefits' you speak of are actually quite negligible and have been ever since Pandaria arrived. It really doesn't matter which craft you choose anymore: they all have benefits to every single class. When WAS the last time you played WoW, anyways?

If you had applied basic reading comprehension, you'd see that I've already paired the professions together as they normally are/or normally were in Vanilla.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
The supply is there because everyone and their dog is capable of taking up any profession.


How does this even have any relevance to this discussion? You can do the same in FFXI. You can do the same in GW2. You can do the same in WoW. EVERYONE is capable of choosing any profession.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
There is always a rush to cap in WoW when an expansion is released. The reason the influx of new is much smaller is that not everyone is capable of gathering or crafting said materials. This from a game where the server populations are multiples of what you find in XIV currently. Is this sinking in at all for you? I feel like a broken record, but you seem to be ignoring a pretty plain idea. I dunno if you just don't want to agree with me or what, but it's not a good look.


This is a common trend in your posts. Pick a person's post, debate with them, then claim they do not understand what you are talking about after you've misconstrued the point 7 different ways within 2 posts.

It won't work here I'm afraid. This is why we use quotes.

Everyone is capable of using an alt to gather materials even after the level cap has been raised. What do you do? Level the alt. In fact, this is what many people do to make money when new expansions are released in WoW. Yet you still insist that, since everyone is capable of gathering, that this must mean there is a larger quantity of raw material at the market.

You act like the market is flooded with high end gathering (botany) items when this just isn't the case at all. You do play 14, right? Check the market frequently? Notice the prices of the high end raw materials? Pretty stable since you STILL have to level another class to the point where you can obtain higher end items.

Again, not a problem due to the ability to choose every crafting or gathering profession: a problem due to droves of people leveling to 50 and devaluing items by selling their quest rewards and raw materials obtained from leveling on the market.

In other words, the economy has not had enough time to stabilize.

I'm beginning to think you've never actually played WoW given your comments thus far.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
As for the bolded, I never said it would be that way forever. SE could increase the cap on professions but require that you specialize and pick only one or two to take beyond 50 similar to how it worked in FFXI. It's not too late to make the adjustments, but it's clearly not working now.


Yes clearly. Because you seem very knowledgeable when it comes to the ending spectrum of the crafts. If only you knew how much money crafters were making in the 40s and at 50, then you may have retracted this statement. But that's ok: I'll leave it here for now so that you won't forget this when I bump this in a month to demonstrate the fact that you're full of hot air.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
FFXIV was released in the end of September, 2010. It is currently the end of September, 2013.

2013 - 2010 != 3 ? Not specific enough perhaps? Would you prefer that I amend my post to say that it's a few weeks short of 3 years? Smiley: rolleyes


No, but you should probably familiarize yourself with the difference between FFXIV and FFXIV: ARR.

You're pretty much equating FO3 to FO: NV. NV was definitely built using some of FO3's concepts but most intelligent people would tell you that they are two different games.

Wait: I see the problem.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Yes, you can make 5 alts and spend the time and money leveling up, riding around to pick up recipes and actually skill up the crafts. Or, you could farm mats for your own craft, sell your goods and buy whatever you needed. You could farm cloth or gold and sell that. ****, you could farm dailies and afford materials for what you needed.

If you wasted the time leveling up all crafts to save a few buck, you're doinitwrong. The main selling point of professions in WoW is the ability to make the gear, or get the enhancements or buffs they provide; not saving a few gold at the cost of a metric asston of time. It takes days of playtime to level a class to cap. My best time from 1-85 speed run was just under 5 days. That's 120 hours spent leveling a class that could have been more productive simply farming on a class I already had capped. Nevermind the time to farm gold or mats to level the professions and the time necessary to level the professions themselves.

And you think I needed a math lesson Smiley: oyvey


After playing WoW since vanilla up until Pandaria (skipping Cata), I can definitely tell you that this 'doingitwrong' crap doesn't really fly. Might want to pick another angle.

I don't make alts just for professions. You know what I make alts for? To play a different class. One would think this would seem obvious but I guess I have to spell things out for you. On each of those alts, it's very easy to select different professions.

Not only did I just level another class (that is probably a different role from my main class), but I also now have two other professions on it. Now not only can I bring a tank AND DPS to raids but I also have 4 professions to boot.

Helps to think outside the box, doesn't it? You could probably use a lot of things: a math lesson being the bare minimum.

FF14 is brilliant in the fact that I do NOT have to create an alt and do the same crap over again just because I want to try another class/job or switch my professions.

I wonder how recent it has been since you've leveled a profession in WoW. It takes maybe a day if you're going slow. 4 days if you farm all the materials. Not hard at all.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
No one is suggesting that everyone will level every class, job and profession to cap. That said, it's not unreasonable that people would level all of the professions that support their favorite or most used classes.


I must've misread...

Quote:
Think about it. In XIV you can raise all professions to cap.

[quote]If you can do everything on your own then you don't need anyone for anything at all. How does that bode for the economy?[/quote]
[quote]but the point I was making was that you were limited. Limited to capping only two professions outside cooking/fishing/firstaid. (read: everyone in 14 will level all crafts to 50 unlike WoW where you cannot do such a thing unless you have alts)[/quote]
[quote]The market is almost non-existent because of the ease with which people can obtain necessary items on their own. Why would I buy your materials when I can just go gather them myself? Not only am I getting the items cheaper, but I have the added incentive of leveling up a craft. There is no specialization. The market is homogenized and is suffering as a result of that. [/quote]
[quote]The supply is there because everyone and their dog is capable of taking up any profession.[/quote]

Oh wait no I didn't. Don't try back pedaling now.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I plan on playing paladin and warrior. You say you mainly level with dungeons and a side of FATEs. If you stockpile leves then crafting to cap is a joke. It won't take much for me to be able to completely support all my needs as far as professions go. I will have 0 need to buy or trade for materials to and from anyone to completely support myself. If you can't see how that impacts the economy then I really don't know what to say at this point. It's pretty obvious to most anyone who can think about it rationally.


Wait a minute. You plan? As in, you have no experience in this game and have been speaking from your rear this entire time.

So if I'm reading this correctly, you currently have no crafting experience, class/job experience, or any experience with FFXIV: ARR. This is all just your speculation?

Wait..it all makes sense now. The last sentence gave me a chuckle. Maybe apply that thought instead of suggesting it next time? Smiley: lol

At this point, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing: going no where with your responses while trying to prove the point that having access to all crafts in 14 is 1) somehow different than having access to all professions through alts in WoW and 2) causes the downfall of the economy.

You're so far off the mark of my original comments that I highly recommend you go reread everything written so far before replying next time.

By the way: you may want to refute all of my points or not bother at all. I like how you glossed over things that destroyed many of your arguments. Here, I'll quote them again for you:

In reference to the value of crafting:
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
When you get to 50 and have to start your relic weapon quest, I think you'll find the same analogy applies. When you get to 50 and need materia melded into your gear (and relic weapon), you'll find that the same analogy applies.


In regards to the queue system and your inaccurate count of tanks:
HitomeofBismarck wrote:
The difference is that WoW did not initially have a queue system at all. The difference is that WoW did not have 5 tanking classes to begin with. Warrior, paladin, and druid. I can't even remember if druid tanking was acceptable back then. I don't think it was, actually, at level cap. So you're reduced to two tanks just as 11 and 14 are.

Do you think WoW dungeons were worth running over and over again when it was released? No. Actually, they provided the same things dungeons in FFXIV do now: better gear than quest rewards and some exp/social interaction.


Have no fear: I'll bookmark this, set a timer, and bump it within a month or two and we can discuss just how off mark you were then. Would be a great lesson in economics, debating, and urduinitrong.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 3:23am by HitomeOfBismarck
#123 Sep 18 2013 at 2:05 AM Rating: Good
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Susanoh wrote:

In GW2, crafting is commonly seen as something people blitz to cap multiple times in a single day in order to level up an alternate character to 80 so they can bypass the rest of the game. Armor drops so common and so easily thrown up on the trading post that most of it sells for one copper piece above vendor price because that is the absolute cheapest it can possibly be sold for. I haven't played in a month or so, but I've read that in the most recent patch, they actually added a way for players to turn their blue/green armor drops into a permanent magic find boost on their account, because blue and green armor was so incredibly common and useless that having a way to burn through it was better than having it fill all of your bag slots every time you play the game so that players seek out a vendor to sell dozens of useless drops.

Guild Wars 2 is probably a shining example of how to make 99% of drops and crafted items completely worthless, with a remaining 1% of rare items that people find desirable.
]



Wow, I haven't played GW in maybe just over a year, I guess things really took a turn for the worse. I guess I was talking more about raw materials then actual items, is the economy on mats completely screwed also?? I never liked the professions in GW2, they got really boring to me.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 4:08am by Jeskradha
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#124 Sep 18 2013 at 3:20 AM Rating: Default
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The problems XIV makes in my opinion is that Yoshi as an MMO player made a game from that perspective and his lack of experience on the other side of the fence is showing in this game. He also tried to copy wow very closely right now instead of taking into account how wow started. Wow now is an evoloution of the initial game that took it's players with it (for instance fast leveling now is good for wow because it has mass amounts of endgame and most of the players are at endgame so it makes it easy to catch up, at launch it would of destroyed it).

MMO players are never the 100% best person to run an MMO because what we want isn't what is best for a long running game or building a community. As an MMO player you would say, waiting for a party sucked on FFXI I'll do away with that. However that party system gave FFXI one of the best communities in the mmo world and made leveling a more social activity, it also gave the game great longevity and made hitting cap a great accomplishment. It also let people make friends.

XIV to me is honestly, a mess of mistakes that although not huge issues right now will grind on players more and more as time goes on.
Fast leveling meaning you can cap every single job in 4-5 months, leveling is filler content in most games it won't be here.
Fun crafting that has been reduced to fluff content due to being able to easily cap everything. (this will tell in 1-2 months).
Endgame content pushed totally into dungeon grinding to save money on development.
Gear treadmill stuck in vertical progression with long grinds assosciated with it.
Being forever restrained by PS3 limitations.
A stupid mix of hilariously over-casual leveling content mixed with incredible grind, the game doesn't know what it is. Even leveling is incredibly easy the first time then stupidly grindy on further jobs due to quests only being a viable means to level the first 1-2 times.
A small base world, this will become more of an issue as time passes.
A playerbase totally against free to play on a game that needs f2p to exist, huge budget title with small niche numbers written all over it.
Almost nothing in place to tackle botters, hackers and RMT.
Horrible customer service, seemingly totally understaffed or undertrained.

ARR was rushed out in 3 years by a fairly inexperienced new director and it shows.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 5:26am by preludes
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#125 Sep 18 2013 at 3:49 AM Rating: Decent
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No one in WoW levels 5 alts so they can have one of every profession. Point blank, that's @#%^ing stupid.

XIV doesn't require you to level 5 alts before you can level all the crafts. In fact, you don't need to cap any jobs before you can reap the full benefit of crafting. The comparison is pointless.

No one said that droves of people leveling jobs wasn't part of the equation, only that the fact that EVERYONE can gather the mats complicates it to the point that it needs to be adjusted.


To sum it up...

Quote:
You didn't level every profession in WoW to max yet you had enough characters to do so. Why is that?


Because I'm not a @#%^ing idiot. It takes at least a week of played time to level just the job to cap, nevermind getting materials and leveling the professions. Complete waste of time and sad that you're not smart enough to realize that. You keep stressing this point, seemingly for no reason at all.

FFXIV doesn't require you to level two normal classes to cap after you level every second profession. FFXIV also doesn't have clear and obvious reasons to take specific crafts(ie. bonuses to support specific classes). In fact, the only reason that the comparison was made was to show that the limit on how many professions you can take on a single character promotes economy.

Leveling 5 alternate characters? Gimmie a @#%^ing break.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 5:51am by FilthMcNasty
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#126 Sep 18 2013 at 5:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Actually, you just buy it from NPC because FATE grinding is what you're going to be doing most of the time and gear is unimportant there. Why waste money supporting your fellow crafters?

In WoW you're pretty much forced to support crafters. It's nearly impossible to play for a day without using at least one item that didn't come from a crafter or wasn't crafted by the player.
You've either stepped into an alternate universe where crafting mattered in WoW or you're lying. The only times crafting ever mattered were at level cap, and that was back in TBC and WotLK. Unless buying fish feasts (which you could most likely make yourself since everyone can level cooking) counts as "supporting a craft". <,<

Edit: I just remembered enchants, gems and the leathercraft/tailoring attachment for pants. That's still not really "supporting a craft", but rather a thin thread by which crafting hangs on to relevancy in-game. It's also why engineering has been seen as largely useless for most of the game's life.

Quote:
The differences are mostly due to other factors of the game. 5 out of the 11 classes in WoW can tank. For this reason, people tend to wait 10-15 minutes depending on the instance they're looking for. Another difference is that the instances in WoW are actually worth running. Assuming you have the quests flagged, it's actually worth the time spent because the quests grant competitive exp and the rewards can cut leveling time significantly.
The ratio between tanks, healers and DPS is not that bad seeing how many classes and jobs there are in FFXIV at the moment. Two tanks, two heals, five DPS.

WoW by comparison has 5 tanks, 6 healers and 23 DPS.

As far as instances being worth running, the only real issue was that you got a higher repair bill from running instances than any allagan currency you may find during the run, and with the decrease in repair costs that problem has in part gone away.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 7:21am by Ruisu
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#127 Sep 18 2013 at 5:37 AM Rating: Default
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Btw anyone know how mutch materia change an items. I only saw that i pushd a second stat a bit and well that dosnt looked so intersting for me, it looked more like a small nice gimmick but sure not a must have to me. Wouldbe better if it increase Dmg or Armor
#128 Sep 18 2013 at 5:44 AM Rating: Default
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Ruisu wrote:
[quote=FilthMcNastyThe ratio between tanks, healers and DPS is not that bad seeing how many classes and jobs there are in FFXIV at the moment. Two tanks, two heals, five DPS.

WoW by comparison has 5 tanks, 6 healers and 23 DPS.
Edited, Sep 18th 2013 7:21am by Ruisu


Sry but thats a bit ********* in Compare to FFXIV you could sign up for multiple Rolles in the WoW Dungeon browser. So nearly Every DD could sign up as Tank or Heal if he wantet to enter faster the finder. They where only 4 pure DPS Classes (hope i count right) and as far i remember they get preffered by the DF System because they had not allternative Rolles than DD.

So all in all that makes 8 Multiclass and 4 pure DD Classes (Mage, Warlock, Rouge, Hunter)
#129 Sep 18 2013 at 6:01 AM Rating: Good
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Transmigration the Charming wrote:
But who cares, I can't play ARR anymore anyway! Smiley: lol


Ok, I know you and I have exchanged some words on a previous thread, but I am sorry to hear this. After my Ethics and Diversity in CJ class list night I realize my comments in a previous thread where overly harsh and uncalled for. For that, I apologize, take it as you will. I do hope you get your account back and soon.

Catwho wrote:
Just a comment on "no secondary market for used gear" - Because old gear is meant to be turned into materia once it's used up, there's no market for used gear. But you can bet there is a market for fresh lowbie gear crafted by weavers and leatherworkers.


I will have to look into the fresh lowbie gear for my other jobs. When i took my first job, SCH from 1-50, i would arrive at a dungeon, farm the **** out of it until i got all the gear i could for SCH then continue on w/ the mainstory line. For the quest in between the dungeons, i would always select those little yellow baggies as a reward. After i completed the mainstory, i traded all the bags in and it netted me over 100k in gil. Now that i am looking to other jobs to level, i may have to start spending some of that gil on the leatherworkers, weavers and armorers.
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#130 Sep 18 2013 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So nearly Every DD could sign up as Tank or Heal if he wantet to enter faster the finder


12 of them cannot. And it's not really relevant anyway since not all hybrids want to be tanking or healing as an alternative to dps. Players just aren't that simple.

Quote:
They where only 4 pure DPS Classes (hope i count right) and as far i remember they get preffered by the DF System because they had not allternative Rolles than DD.


That is incorrect.

Quote:
So all in all that makes 8 Multiclass and 4 pure DD Classes


Ruisu was correctly counting specs up there, not classes.
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#131 Sep 18 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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Missbone wrote:
Btw anyone know how mutch materia change an items. I only saw that i pushd a second stat a bit and well that dosnt looked so intersting for me, it looked more like a small nice gimmick but sure not a must have to me. Wouldbe better if it increase Dmg or Armor


Depends on the materia. Some of them do increase damage, accuracy, attack, etc. Others just increase resistance to a specific element. (Those are kind of a waste of slot unless you want to make a special set of Ifrit hard mode gear or something.)
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#132 Sep 18 2013 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
So nearly Every DD could sign up as Tank or Heal if he wantet to enter faster the finder


12 of them cannot. And it's not really relevant anyway since not all hybrids want to be tanking or healing as an alternative to dps. Players just aren't that simple.

Quote:
They where only 4 pure DPS Classes (hope i count right) and as far i remember they get preffered by the DF System because they had not allternative Rolles than DD.


That is incorrect.

Quote:
So all in all that makes 8 Multiclass and 4 pure DD Classes


Ruisu was correctly counting specs up there, not classes.


Well maybe not every DD wants to have a second spec but nearly every DD is complaining about to long waiting time. So i only count the classes witch real have no other Choice than DD. And there are no 12 pure DD Classes in wow, because thats nearly the number of all availble classes (Warrior, DK, Shami, Druid, Priest, Monk, Paladin etc. these all are multiclasses and dont count). If someone plays a multiclass and only uses DD spec and is complaing that the DF takes to long, sry but this is own stupidity. If every only DD Multiclassplayer would accept to play from time to time another role in the DF the waiting time would drop Rapidly for all Players.

But anyway what i miss here in this game is the option to Que as another role in the DF i have 4 active Fighting specs but i can only que with the one i have choosen when i open the DF. Thats just stupid and should be Change, i would love to que also as DD or heal when im logged in as tank and farming something or doing fates, but thats just not possible.
#133 Sep 18 2013 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
Just a comment on "no secondary market for used gear" - Because old gear is meant to be turned into materia once it's used up, there's no market for used gear. But you can bet there is a market for fresh lowbie gear crafted by weavers and leatherworkers.


I will profess I haven't tried turning equipment to Materia - a reason is that I am messing many low level jobs, and I am try to reuse old armour for those jobs to cut cost. I also have used most binded gear as crafting material. Yes, I am somewhat a cheap stake that hoards quite a bit gil (laugh). I am around level 30, so far unenhanced weapons and equipment appear to be adequate for my purposes, but I do think I need to try out using Materia. I think I will try when I get back home (cannot play this week) from my present work trip :-).
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#134 Sep 18 2013 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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Essentially, once a gear is at 100% spiritbond, it is worth more to turn it into materia and cross your fingers for something awesome, and then go spend 100-500 gil on the auction house to buy a replacement.
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#135 Sep 18 2013 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Ruisu wrote:
You've either stepped into an alternate universe where crafting mattered in WoW or you're lying. The only times crafting ever mattered were at level cap, and that was back in TBC and WotLK. Unless buying fish feasts (which you could most likely make yourself since everyone can level cooking) counts as "supporting a craft". <,<

Edit: I just remembered enchants, gems and the leathercraft/tailoring attachment for pants. That's still not really "supporting a craft", but rather a thin thread by which crafting hangs on to relevancy in-game. It's also why engineering has been seen as largely useless for most of the game's life.


People buy crafted items and materials all the time in WoW. I'll give you an example...

My warlock has both fishing and cooking capped. I am able to fish for and cook all of the foods I would need for instances. However, it's a better use of my time to farm the money I need to purchase the fish from someone else and only cook them on my own. I can farm the money to buy the fish in less time that it actually takes to catch them all. I get my meals at a reduced cost and whoever caught the fish makes a profit for their time. This is the point I was trying to bring across, but mostly relating to the primary crafts since it's not something just anyone can do.

Another example using primary professions...

My warrior is blacksmith/jewelcraft spec'd. Blacksmithing allows me to create sockets on gloves and bracers that I can put extra gems into and jewelcrafting allows me to make higher quality gems to put in those sockets. For that reason, this combination of professions is seen as ideal in terms of maximizing your gains. Jewelcrafters prospect raw gems from ore and cut those into a finished product. If I am blacksmith/jewelcrafter I can't mine the ore I need to prospect the gems. I need to rely on other crafters with mining to gather and sell the ores to me, but it's almost always a profit even if I purchase the ores from someone else.

This is the point I'm trying to make. The fact that XIV allows anyone to level any craft without a steep investment(ie. leveling a class to cap for every other profession you cap) will lead to common materials flooding the market. I'm not saying that it can't be overcome, but it's a hurdle none the less. If the market is so saturated with crafters, you'd need to have very rare materials needed for certain crafts if they are going to be of any value in terms of trying to sell them.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 5:15pm by FilthMcNasty
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#136 Oct 03 2013 at 5:48 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Ruisu wrote:
You've either stepped into an alternate universe where crafting mattered in WoW or you're lying. The only times crafting ever mattered were at level cap, and that was back in TBC and WotLK. Unless buying fish feasts (which you could most likely make yourself since everyone can level cooking) counts as "supporting a craft". <,<

Edit: I just remembered enchants, gems and the leathercraft/tailoring attachment for pants. That's still not really "supporting a craft", but rather a thin thread by which crafting hangs on to relevancy in-game. It's also why engineering has been seen as largely useless for most of the game's life.


People buy crafted items and materials all the time in WoW. I'll give you an example...

My warlock has both fishing and cooking capped. I am able to fish for and cook all of the foods I would need for instances. However, it's a better use of my time to farm the money I need to purchase the fish from someone else and only cook them on my own. I can farm the money to buy the fish in less time that it actually takes to catch them all. I get my meals at a reduced cost and whoever caught the fish makes a profit for their time. This is the point I was trying to bring across, but mostly relating to the primary crafts since it's not something just anyone can do.

Another example using primary professions...

My warrior is blacksmith/jewelcraft spec'd. Blacksmithing allows me to create sockets on gloves and bracers that I can put extra gems into and jewelcrafting allows me to make higher quality gems to put in those sockets. For that reason, this combination of professions is seen as ideal in terms of maximizing your gains. Jewelcrafters prospect raw gems from ore and cut those into a finished product. If I am blacksmith/jewelcrafter I can't mine the ore I need to prospect the gems. I need to rely on other crafters with mining to gather and sell the ores to me, but it's almost always a profit even if I purchase the ores from someone else.

This is the point I'm trying to make. The fact that XIV allows anyone to level any craft without a steep investment(ie. leveling a class to cap for every other profession you cap) will lead to common materials flooding the market. I'm not saying that it can't be overcome, but it's a hurdle none the less. If the market is so saturated with crafters, you'd need to have very rare materials needed for certain crafts if they are going to be of any value in terms of trying to sell them.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 5:15pm by FilthMcNasty


So...remember when I wrote this on the the 18th?

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Have no fear: I'll bookmark this, set a timer, and bump it within a month or two and we can discuss just how off mark you were then


I think plenty of time has passed to demonstrate that you have no argument when it comes to the FFXIV economy.

The economy has actually picked up substantially since last you posted. There is a high demand for low level gear, as I predicted, because people are leveling their 2nd DoW/DoM job to 50 now. You thought people wouldn't rely on crafters to buy the lower level gear: that they'd just make it themselves.

Go take a look at the market. There is plenty of gear that sells at a steady, rate coming directly from crafters. Not only that, but HQ low level gear is also in demand similar to FFXI's HQ low level gear.

Since many people I have spoken with haven't leveled a third craft to 50 by now, I'd say it's a no brainer to dismiss your statement about complete self sufficiency. It just isn't feasible and most of the population understands that.

If you're self-sufficient in most crafts, chances are you haven't leveled many of the DoW or DoM jobs either. I would say, that unless you have several of the crafts maxed at 50, you can currently make better gil at level 50 with a combat job. Considering some fo the materials required to make this armor we're speaking of, it's just not feasible to make your own. You don't go, "Oh, well I need to level paladin now...guess I'll go level an appropriate DoH job instead." As you said, that would be counterproductive and a waste of time.

Even if you can make the item, you're still going to be relying on the market to purchase the raw materials without a gathering job leveled. Many crafters are buying plenty of materials from the AH due to this and leves.

High end gear obtained through crafting is currently in high demand.

Materia is in high demand. Melding the materia is also in high demand.

High quality food (and even NQ food) is in high demand for groups proceeding through coil. Ethers as well.

On top of all of this, there is a fountain at level 50 that allows you to make money without having to level a crafting job at all.

All in all, the economy now is pretty stable and, as I mentioned several times above, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 9:37am by HitomeOfBismarck
#137 Oct 03 2013 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
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So, in sticking w/ the OP....

Yes i think the game will be fine. I got my SCH to 50 and got some DL gear. Now that job is set aside to help FC and LS members when they need a lvl 50 healer for anything. It was a rat-race for me to get my SCH to 50 but now, now I am working on my DoL and DoH jobs and i am taking it slow and enjoying the scenery.

I've seen alot of people say there is no community in FFXIV, that's because most of them are tunnel-visioned on getting to the endgame stuff and getting the best of the best gear. If they would take the time to enjoy the journey, they would see there is a great community on FFXIV.

I am in no hurry what so ever to get to endgame content because i know most of my FC and LS members are not there yet and I do not feel like dealing w/ the mind @#%^ that is endgame elitism. I have plenty of things to do and there is no end in sight. Top what with the new stuff coming in the patches, yea, i'm gonna be a busy happy player for months to come.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 8:06am by RyanSquires
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#138 Oct 03 2013 at 6:05 AM Rating: Good
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I enjoy seeing topics like this. I never really read the content but the headline was a good laugh. They remind me of headlines on major "news" websites like CNN or Fox. "Will your kids be eaten by space bees?" , "Are middle eastern people really that amusing in zebra costumes?" "10 new diet tricks all involving your own urine!" Or other such complete nonsense.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 8:06am by Furiousnixon
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#139 Oct 03 2013 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
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Missbone wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
So nearly Every DD could sign up as Tank or Heal if he wantet to enter faster the finder


12 of them cannot. And it's not really relevant anyway since not all hybrids want to be tanking or healing as an alternative to dps. Players just aren't that simple.

Quote:
They where only 4 pure DPS Classes (hope i count right) and as far i remember they get preffered by the DF System because they had not allternative Rolles than DD.


That is incorrect.

Quote:
So all in all that makes 8 Multiclass and 4 pure DD Classes


Ruisu was correctly counting specs up there, not classes.


Well maybe not every DD wants to have a second spec but nearly every DD is complaining about to long waiting time. So i only count the classes witch real have no other Choice than DD. And there are no 12 pure DD Classes in wow, because thats nearly the number of all availble classes (Warrior, DK, Shami, Druid, Priest, Monk, Paladin etc. these all are multiclasses and dont count). If someone plays a multiclass and only uses DD spec and is complaing that the DF takes to long, sry but this is own stupidity. If every only DD Multiclassplayer would accept to play from time to time another role in the DF the waiting time would drop Rapidly for all Players.

But anyway what i miss here in this game is the option to Que as another role in the DF i have 4 active Fighting specs but i can only que with the one i have choosen when i open the DF. Thats just stupid and should be Change, i would love to que also as DD or heal when im logged in as tank and farming something or doing fates, but thats just not possible.


Am I missing something here? I Join a DF on my SCH and switch to my BOT until the DF pops. How is what you're saying not possible?
#140 Oct 03 2013 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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nonameoflevi wrote:
Missbone wrote:


But anyway what i miss here in this game is the option to Que as another role in the DF i have 4 active Fighting specs but i can only que with the one i have choosen when i open the DF. Thats just stupid and should be Change, i would love to que also as DD or heal when im logged in as tank and farming something or doing fates, but thats just not possible.


Am I missing something here? I Join a DF on my SCH and switch to my BOT until the DF pops. How is what you're saying not possible?


Either they mean they want to change the role of their TANK (WAR or PLD) to be a DD/HEALER role??????? Or, they are very very confused.

Now, just as you said, i do the same thing. Log in as SCH, DF up, macro gear swap to BOT and gather mats until DF pops, then just macro gear swap back to SCH.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 10:23am by RyanSquires
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#141 Oct 03 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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The key is, I think, that macro gear swap. I don't think you can change jobs once the Duty Finder "commence" window has been accepted.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#142 Oct 03 2013 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
The key is, I think, that macro gear swap. I don't think you can change jobs once the Duty Finder "commence" window has been accepted.


Correct, once you accept, you can't change but, if i'm BOT and DF up as SCH and the DF pops while on BOT, the screen will tell me i can't accept until i change to the proper class, at which point i macro gear swap to SCH and i can accept.

Still alittle confused by the previous post.


Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 10:27am by RyanSquires
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#143 Oct 03 2013 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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The only think I wish is that people would step back and see the bigger picture. Level 50 is not the end. What if it's like FFXI where the level cap for crafting is much higher and past a certain level you can level everything and it becomes tougher? Getting crafts to 60 back in the day was straightforward but later on? Much tougher.

What if we're at the equivalent of the AF stretch in XI? That means there's a lot of content looming. We are not at endgame yet. We're at the beginning.
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#144 Oct 03 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Ruisu wrote:
You've either stepped into an alternate universe where crafting mattered in WoW or you're lying. The only times crafting ever mattered were at level cap, and that was back in TBC and WotLK. Unless buying fish feasts (which you could most likely make yourself since everyone can level cooking) counts as "supporting a craft". <,<

Edit: I just remembered enchants, gems and the leathercraft/tailoring attachment for pants. That's still not really "supporting a craft", but rather a thin thread by which crafting hangs on to relevancy in-game. It's also why engineering has been seen as largely useless for most of the game's life.


People buy crafted items and materials all the time in WoW. I'll give you an example...

My warlock has both fishing and cooking capped. I am able to fish for and cook all of the foods I would need for instances. However, it's a better use of my time to farm the money I need to purchase the fish from someone else and only cook them on my own. I can farm the money to buy the fish in less time that it actually takes to catch them all. I get my meals at a reduced cost and whoever caught the fish makes a profit for their time. This is the point I was trying to bring across, but mostly relating to the primary crafts since it's not something just anyone can do.

Another example using primary professions...

My warrior is blacksmith/jewelcraft spec'd. Blacksmithing allows me to create sockets on gloves and bracers that I can put extra gems into and jewelcrafting allows me to make higher quality gems to put in those sockets. For that reason, this combination of professions is seen as ideal in terms of maximizing your gains. Jewelcrafters prospect raw gems from ore and cut those into a finished product. If I am blacksmith/jewelcrafter I can't mine the ore I need to prospect the gems. I need to rely on other crafters with mining to gather and sell the ores to me, but it's almost always a profit even if I purchase the ores from someone else.

This is the point I'm trying to make. The fact that XIV allows anyone to level any craft without a steep investment(ie. leveling a class to cap for every other profession you cap) will lead to common materials flooding the market. I'm not saying that it can't be overcome, but it's a hurdle none the less. If the market is so saturated with crafters, you'd need to have very rare materials needed for certain crafts if they are going to be of any value in terms of trying to sell them.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 5:15pm by FilthMcNasty


So...remember when I wrote this on the the 18th?

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Have no fear: I'll bookmark this, set a timer, and bump it within a month or two and we can discuss just how off mark you were then


I think plenty of time has passed to demonstrate that you have no argument when it comes to the FFXIV economy.

The economy has actually picked up substantially since last you posted. There is a high demand for low level gear, as I predicted, because people are leveling their 2nd DoW/DoM job to 50 now. You thought people wouldn't rely on crafters to buy the lower level gear: that they'd just make it themselves.

Go take a look at the market. There is plenty of gear that sells at a steady, rate coming directly from crafters. Not only that, but HQ low level gear is also in demand similar to FFXI's HQ low level gear.

Since many people I have spoken with haven't leveled a third craft to 50 by now, I'd say it's a no brainer to dismiss your statement about complete self sufficiency. It just isn't feasible and most of the population understands that.

If you're self-sufficient in most crafts, chances are you haven't leveled many of the DoW or DoM jobs either. I would say, that unless you have several of the crafts maxed at 50, you can currently make better gil at level 50 with a combat job. Considering some fo the materials required to make this armor we're speaking of, it's just not feasible to make your own. You don't go, "Oh, well I need to level paladin now...guess I'll go level an appropriate DoH job instead." As you said, that would be counterproductive and a waste of time.

Even if you can make the item, you're still going to be relying on the market to purchase the raw materials without a gathering job leveled. Many crafters are buying plenty of materials from the AH due to this and leves.

High end gear obtained through crafting is currently in high demand.

Materia is in high demand. Melding the materia is also in high demand.

High quality food (and even NQ food) is in high demand for groups proceeding through coil. Ethers as well.

On top of all of this, there is a fountain at level 50 that allows you to make money without having to level a crafting job at all.

All in all, the economy now is pretty stable and, as I mentioned several times above, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 9:37am by HitomeOfBismarck



Man i wish i was on your server then, there is zero market for low level HQ gear and materia melded gear, i feel like the game kinda kicks crafters in the ****, since you can buy all gear from NPCs , and that gear is good enough to complete all content 1-50, why would they buy HQ gear or materia melded gear? Im a crafter and enjoy makeing my gear but its kinda a bummer when all gear on the market bored sells for like 90-1000 gil, i have alot of HQ quint melded materia gear and weapons on my market bored for sell but its just collecting dust, no insentive for people to buy it since you really dont need it at all.
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#145 Oct 04 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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What?
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#146 Oct 04 2013 at 11:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I love how many people are saying that they have done it all without being close to having done even half of it.

Also, ARR was only just released a few weeks ago. Some people played in 1.0, and some played in the beta, but the majority of players have only just started. Even if you find the endgame content a little lacking as of right now that really should not spell disaster. It is brand new, there is a much larger population than was ever expected, and there is a lot of focus and attention on the developers to make this successful.

I think that, considering the way WoW has finally slowed down and is no longer the all-out king that has ten more years ahead of it, there will be enough of an incentive for the developers to keep things fresh and interesting, and perhaps set a few new standards in attractive, popular MMORPG gaming.

It is far too early to be making grand assumptions and large sweeping statements about how so-so and boring this game is.
#147 Oct 05 2013 at 12:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I said well before release that ARR would need to launch with a significant amount of new endgame content. Reason being, they already have a significant amount of players at the cap. There is a chart I can dig up that shows the distribution of job levels in ARR. Just a quick glance shows that the vast majority of players are spread through the lower levels with spikes at obvious points. Tons of level 15 characters(unlock for different aspects of the game like airship/inns/guildleves), many characters in the high 20s and low 30s(for secondary skillsets from classes) and a metric ****-ton of capped players. There were quite a few players from 1.0 who were already where they wanted to be at ARR's launch and since only a few jobs were introduced, they either weren't interested in them or already had a significant start on them.

FFXIV was released 3 years ago. Call it a new game if you want, but people who did play 1.0 carried with them up to 3 years of progress. Essentially they have had a 3 year headstart. Not something that breaks the game, but definitely needed to be considered when planning out content implementation.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#148 Oct 05 2013 at 1:36 AM Rating: Excellent
It isn't really that big of a head start. The game plays entirely different now, and the storyline restarted for everyone. Leveling is so much easier and more fun now, so even the level gap has been closed very quickly. A month in, there is very little difference between new and old players... We've all only played THIS game for one month out of beta.
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#149 Oct 05 2013 at 6:35 AM Rating: Decent
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4,134 posts
Thayos wrote:
It isn't really that big of a head start. The game plays entirely different now, and the storyline restarted for everyone. Leveling is so much easier and more fun now, so even the level gap has been closed very quickly. A month in, there is very little difference between new and old players... We've all only played THIS game for one month out of beta.


How the game plays doesn't really matter. A capped class from 1.0 carries over to ARR. Mechanics won't change that fact. Sure it's easier to level up now, but someone with 3 years of play vs a new player is at a vast advantage if they put any sort of effort in during that time. Just look at the census data if you needed a reminder that PL was a popular activity in 1.0 Smiley: wink
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#150 Oct 05 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
36 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
No one in WoW levels 5 alts so they can have one of every profession. Point blank, that's @#%^ing stupid.

XIV doesn't require you to level 5 alts before you can level all the crafts. In fact, you don't need to cap any jobs before you can reap the full benefit of crafting. The comparison is pointless.

No one said that droves of people leveling jobs wasn't part of the equation, only that the fact that EVERYONE can gather the mats complicates it to the point that it needs to be adjusted.


To sum it up...

Quote:
You didn't level every profession in WoW to max yet you had enough characters to do so. Why is that?


Because I'm not a @#%^ing idiot. It takes at least a week of played time to level just the job to cap, nevermind getting materials and leveling the professions. Complete waste of time and sad that you're not smart enough to realize that. You keep stressing this point, seemingly for no reason at all.

FFXIV doesn't require you to level two normal classes to cap after you level every second profession. FFXIV also doesn't have clear and obvious reasons to take specific crafts(ie. bonuses to support specific classes). In fact, the only reason that the comparison was made was to show that the limit on how many professions you can take on a single character promotes economy.

Leveling 5 alternate characters? Gimmie a @#%^ing break.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 5:51am by FilthMcNasty



I'm not going to argue with you about this, but I do want to interject. Wow isn't hard to level up a character to max. You are saying a week of played time? Even after rested and heirlooms. Sure, if you insist. That game has also been out ten years (or 520-ish weeks of playing time). The idea that people haven't passively leveled alts for classes or crafting seems like a flawed premise. I have 11 85+ characters on one server waiting for me to re-sub (this is just one of my servers mind you). They also have crafting. I don't need a week of playtime to max a character, each expansion I just go through and max them out. If I didn't feel like crafting earlier, blizzard stressed catch up mechanics for crafting now. You can mine/herb the same nodes from 1-whatever cap is now. I also remember that cooking was made so you could catch up to current xpac with a vendor right next to the trainer to buy mats from. They added catchup mechanisms for blacksmithing as well, maybe others since I left.

I didn't need those catch ups because after eleven years of mmo play I knew how to organize my bank with all crafting mats needed to level in order I needed them, and then sit and batch craft to cap in less than a day.

Yet wow is still going strong. The economy didn't collapse. People love it more than any other mmo in fact. The only difference in wow was the illusion that having separate toons mattered. The reality is that on one account you could still play every craft and class to max easily, and it didn't impact the success of the game.

I think the truth isn't that everyone can have all things maxed out, but maybe more that not everybody will.
#151 Oct 05 2013 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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4,134 posts
GalkaWen wrote:
I didn't need those catch ups because after eleven years of mmo play I knew how to organize my bank with all crafting mats needed to level in order I needed them, and then sit and batch craft to cap in less than a day.

Yet wow is still going strong. The economy didn't collapse. People love it more than any other mmo in fact. The only difference in wow was the illusion that having separate toons mattered. The reality is that on one account you could still play every craft and class to max easily, and it didn't impact the success of the game.

I think the truth isn't that everyone can have all things maxed out, but maybe more that not everybody will.


I never challenged that it wasn't true that people could level alts and level every available profession on those alts to max everything. My point was that it wasn't worth the time.

If you take all the time you had put into leveling those alternate characters, their professions and the resources you sunk into them getting to that point; it would never be worth it if you had instead invested all that time farming or using your main professions to make money to afford what you needed. People seem to forget the fact that time = money. In this case(just as in my situation IRL), it's always too much time for not enough money. Smiley: glare
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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