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Will the game last 12 months?Follow

#77 Sep 14 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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I haven't had all the time in the world to play but I have almost unlocked WHM (with SCH close behind) and leveled WVR/LTH/CUL to 20-30. I imagine I'll hit 50 in another month or so and finish out the main story.

I have noticed there seem to be two types of hardcores playing right now and I'll loosely categorize them as "MMO veterans" and "FFXI veterans".

The "MMO veterans" have played lots of NA MMOs that have almost no good content while leveling, and ALL of the game is in the "END GAME". Most of these players have mistakenly burnt through all the quest line on a single job to 50 (with a sub to 15 cuz you had to) and no gathering and no crafting and are now sitting at 50 complaining about "fate grind", "no sub job quests", "no end game", "why gotta craft for materia", etc. The main problem being they have only played 10% of the game and are complaining that they have to play the other 90% to enjoy the game.

I feel the "FFXI veterans" know that the aim of this game is more breadth than depth. Sure you can max level a job in 2 weeks, but then you have not enjoyed the game. The game doesn't begin at level 50, it ends there. This game doesn't "begin at end game" like other games do. If you level a crafting class or two in parallel with your main job you will always have great equip and will be able to enjoy some of the dungeons etc better. For that matter, if you are leveling crafts, you might as well start a gathering class too and gee you might need a sub or two to farm mats. All this time you can earn gil to support your main job and other goals.

I know this game will last 12 months for the people focused on breadth and growth. If you are the type of player that focuses on end game content then there are many popular games out there that allow you to max your character in a few days and then run the same end game content over and over on your static capped character.
#78 Sep 15 2013 at 2:25 AM Rating: Good
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FattyJones wrote:
It will last but I don't think the hype will stay around for long. I'm honestly already bored with it, besides running around checking out the amazing environments, and fate grinding. it's kind of empty, it seems to be trying to capture the COD crowd as part of its player base. quick to jump in and learn, fast progression for the ADD players to keep them from getting bored. I played XI for many years and that game had something ffxi I don't think will ever capture. I really can't see playing this game past the free trial


I said this in another thread and I'll repeat it here. This is a function of you getting old. It's a issue with you, as a human, idealizing the past. All people do it. It's why all old people wish for the good ol days. In a true, quantitative sense, however, it's not true.
#79 Sep 15 2013 at 4:22 AM Rating: Decent
The thing is FFXIV feels like a single player game with MMO elements added to it. FFXI at least forced you to find ppl to party and kill mobs unlike FFXIV where it's automated. I like the aspect of partying with other ppl besides dungeons and killing mobs. (not talking about the lame fate grinds) Majority of mobs in the FFXIV world barely even aggro you when you're fighting near them which is kind of lame. I cast a spell at a mob and it only pulls that one and none of the mobs right next to them so the combat sometimes feels dumbed-down. Only real time mobs get aggro-ed is in dungeons. So I'm towards the endgame and just grinding the same stupid primals over and over and over. They really need to do something because a lot of people are going to leave after the free period is over.
#80 Sep 15 2013 at 5:07 AM Rating: Default
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SinDariusDaishiGajo wrote:
FattyJones wrote:
It will last but I don't think the hype will stay around for long. I'm honestly already bored with it, besides running around checking out the amazing environments, and fate grinding. it's kind of empty, it seems to be trying to capture the COD crowd as part of its player base. quick to jump in and learn, fast progression for the ADD players to keep them from getting bored. I played XI for many years and that game had something ffxi I don't think will ever capture. I really can't see playing this game past the free trial


I said this in another thread and I'll repeat it here. This is a function of you getting old. It's a issue with you, as a human, idealizing the past. All people do it. It's why all old people wish for the good ol days. In a true, quantitative sense, however, it's not true.


It's more because we've seen it all before, there is no wonderment or value to something we've seen a hundred times being regurgitated up again as a fresh meal.

Something like Everquest next looks amazing and may change this around, because it's trying to bring something new and amazing. Breakable terain etc in an mmo world sounds epic. Familiarity breeds contempt, and this game is as familiar to everything else we've played as it's possible to get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdgPuEl5Nuk

If you want to impress you offer something new and impressive, if you don't...well you won't.
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#81 Sep 15 2013 at 5:18 AM Rating: Default
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Catwho wrote:
Free to play did exist in virtual worlds. They got away with it because the worlds were pretty sh*tty and largely driven by user created content. (For example, Cybertown.) Other worlds had cash shops long before it was cool, such as Dreamscape.

Stop making sh*t up. FFXI charged a sub fee because, like Everquest, SE intended to keep a dedicated support team on hand wanted to be able to pay those folks salaries.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 10:05am by Catwho


Free to play as the norm didn't exist till a few years ago, stop trying so hard. Cybertown, really? We are talking about AAA MMOs that works as a completely free title being the market standard.

I can list mmos that are completely free to play, that have RMT detection units, full development teams working on them pushing out big tri monthly content patches that have better customer support teams than SE offer and everything else you care to mention.

P2P offers nothing that you don't get with a f2p title and if you say otherwise you simply show your lack of experience with f2p games. Heck from what I've seen what FFXIV offers is beneath the best free to play titles, bad customer support, bad rmt detection, hacks and bots everywhere.
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#82 Sep 15 2013 at 8:46 AM Rating: Default
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preludes wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Free to play did exist in virtual worlds. They got away with it because the worlds were pretty sh*tty and largely driven by user created content. (For example, Cybertown.) Other worlds had cash shops long before it was cool, such as Dreamscape.

Stop making sh*t up. FFXI charged a sub fee because, like Everquest, SE intended to keep a dedicated support team on hand wanted to be able to pay those folks salaries.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 10:05am by Catwho


Free to play as the norm didn't exist till a few years ago, stop trying so hard. Cybertown, really? We are talking about AAA MMOs that works as a completely free title being the market standard.

I can list mmos that are completely free to play, that have RMT detection units, full development teams working on them pushing out big tri monthly content patches that have better customer support teams than SE offer and everything else you care to mention.

P2P offers nothing that you don't get with a f2p title and if you say otherwise you simply show your lack of experience with f2p games. Heck from what I've seen what FFXIV offers is beneath the best free to play titles, bad customer support, bad rmt detection, hacks and bots everywhere.

Everquest 1 & 2 are doing better FTP than they ever did P2P, that's why EQN is starting as F2P. I think the argument of what payment model breeds more quality content is hogwash. Either your game is golden or it's not, and regardless of the payment model. If you expect players to hang around for the long haul, like a decade. The game has to be good.

Familiarity doesn't breed contempt. It builds comfort, stability, and security. It's the biggest reason people look for when they seek bonds with friends and lovers. Usually the lover they find the most familiarity with is the one they marry. The love or contempt comes in when someone perceives their circumstance in either direction. Unfamiliarity creates intrigue, fear, unease, excitement, and insecurity. When there is only comfort you lack the thrill and when there is only thrill you lack the comfort. Either extreme can lead to love or contempt.

I went off tangent lol. But that same concept applies to games. You can type until your hands fall off trying to convince someone if novelty or familiarity is better. In the end, your love for a game may be that person's contempt for the game. Arguing just pushes them further into their decision.

ARR has a good foundation of comfort, especially to Final Fantasy fans. To attract people who do not play FF, they will need to do a few unfamiliar things, but always remember the core who got them here in the first place. One ending note I want to make on TERA. I don't know if it was just my server, their actions against rmt, or just me. But I played it about 60 hours. I never once received a tell or saw a shout from rmt. P2P or F2P? I give a rat's *** which. Either it captivates me or it doesn't.
#83 Sep 15 2013 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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algorithm0r wrote:
I feel the "FFXI veterans" know that the aim of this game is more breadth than depth. Sure you can max level a job in 2 weeks, but then you have not enjoyed the game. The game doesn't begin at level 50, it ends there. This game doesn't "begin at end game" like other games do. If you level a crafting class or two in parallel with your main job you will always have great equip and will be able to enjoy some of the dungeons etc better. For that matter, if you are leveling crafts, you might as well start a gathering class too and gee you might need a sub or two to farm mats. All this time you can earn gil to support your main job and other goals.


I think you may be seeing this game with some blinders on.

You can't say "the game doesn't begin at end game because everyone should slow down", the reality is the player base moves at the most efficient speed the game allows, and in FFXIV that's absurdly fast. Two weeks to max level? Most people are doing it in two days and this isn't just the hardcore players.

FFXIV absolutely is a "begin at endgame", modern, theme park MMORPG. I wish it wasn't true and I wish you were correct, but this game is built around the idea of getting to level 50 asap, regardless of DoW or DoL. The 1-49 content is simply too easy to breeze past to justify any sort of in-depth and lengthy player experience or sub-levelcap economy, and no matter how many people advocate slowing down or spending more time experiencing this content, it won't change how the majority of players interact with the world. We've seen it time and time again with every MMORPG that has come before, and we're seeing it here right now.

The reality is if content can be skipped, breezed through or avoided that's what the metagame will emerge as, and remain that way, until the first hard stop in content progression. That doesn't exist in FFXIV until level 50, and thus where most people will 'start' the game.

I don't like it anymore than you, but that's what we have here.


Edited, Sep 15th 2013 5:46pm by Whales
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#84 Sep 16 2013 at 1:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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WinterWindstrife wrote:
The thing is FFXIV feels like a single player game with MMO elements added to it. FFXI at least forced you to find ppl to party and kill mobs unlike FFXIV where it's automated. I like the aspect of partying with other ppl besides dungeons and killing mobs. (not talking about the lame fate grinds) Majority of mobs in the FFXIV world barely even aggro you when you're fighting near them which is kind of lame. I cast a spell at a mob and it only pulls that one and none of the mobs right next to them so the combat sometimes feels dumbed-down. Only real time mobs get aggro-ed is in dungeons. So I'm towards the endgame and just grinding the same stupid primals over and over and over. They really need to do something because a lot of people are going to leave after the free period is over.

Your level of exaggeration to upscale the faults of FFXIV is baffling.

True that linking mobs so far are only found in dungeons but in the field there are sight based and sound based mobs. I've had the unfortunate event of running into sound based ones haha.

I also don't mind soloing mobs. At least I don't need to sub /NIN or /WHM or something else to be able to do it effectively. A same level mob wont mop the floor with me. Maybe the majority fate grinds, but not me.. and wont be spamming primals at 50. Every player isn't the same.

NOT that many people share yours and preludes opinion as you like to believe. If so were the case, I'd be hearing this BS in shout all day. All I see in shout though is people joking around with each other, ya know light hearted stuff and questions being asked etc. Not including FCs cause obviously I don't know what goes on in there, but then again, MMO players have proven throughout history to be bold and steadfast with voicing their dislike out in the open about the game they are playing.

In Aion, I got so tired of reading troll comments and constant negativity about the game. FFXIV is not a bad game, nor is it even "borderline". This isn't some biased escapade either like some certain players are doing in this thread by knocking on FFXIV constantly with hopes of converting the lurkers to their side.

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#85 Sep 16 2013 at 2:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
True that linking mobs so far are only found in dungeons but in the field there are sight based and sound based mobs. I've had the unfortunate event of running into sound based ones haha.


Another thing to note is that if you're in a party while exploring the overworld, mobs can and will suddenly link against you, whether your party members are nearby or not. I once discovered this the hard way. While I was in a FATE party, I decided to carry on with my own agenda while waiting for a new FATE to spawn and attacked a nearby water sprite. Normally, I would have just that one to deal with, but because I was in a party, all the nearby sprites suddenly jumped me as well. Needless to say, it did not end well for me XD.
#86KingAlkaiser, Posted: Sep 16 2013 at 11:22 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) jesus so much fanboy'ism and die hard whiteknighting on this thread lol.
#87 Sep 17 2013 at 1:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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somerandomthread wrote:
played FFXI for nearly 4 years


Impressive!!

somerandomthread wrote:
I've currently got a level 49 BRD


I see. So you aren't able to access any of the 50 content.

somerandomthread wrote:
Issue #5: The game is entirely too easy in all aspects

somerandomthread wrote:
I've run nearly every dungeon


...but you just said you were level 49. How could you possibly know that the game is entirely too easy in all aspects if you haven't experienced one aspect of it? Do you really think you've 'nearly' ran every dungeon if you're missing two of the biggest ones plus a plethora of level 50 ones and 3 hardmode primals plus coils? I don't think so.

somerandomthread wrote:
this is solely my opinion, and based on my perception rather than facts


Oh that explains it.

somerandomthread wrote:
for those out there who don't have 3-4 hours to queue up


As a DPS throughout my travel from 15-50, the longest queue I've experienced has been 45 minutes. I'm not sure why you are getting 4 hour queues. My guess: exaggeration for effect similar to how you said you are:

Quote:
1) i'm a die-hard Final Fantasy fan


A 'clever' tactic. First, present information that would make it appear, topically, that you were unbiased. Next, state your experience in other MMOs (without referencing which ones) and, as an aside, casually mention you've written many MMO reviews. It almost makes you seem objective.

Wait, here's your avatar text:

[quote]It's my job to be objective, it's my right to have an opinion.[/quote]

Well, cat is out of the bag on that one I guess.

somerandomthread wrote:
Issue #1: Crafting is utterly useless
there is no demand for hardly anything.


Does he realize the game was just released? The market is flooded with things because people have been leveling in huge droves up to 50. You EXPECT this type of situation. He mentions that crafting gear is useless since it may be obtained from quest gear.

When you go to level a 2nd job that doesn't use any of the gear that your first job did AND you're out of quests, what do you do? Oh, that's right: buy from the market.

Most people have not gotten to the point of leveling a 2nd job yet. Heck, you're still 49. Yes, they're leveling quite quickly. They have quests and FATEs to choose from with a massive amount of people in each area to do the FATEs with in groups. What happens when the population spreads out more evenly? Do you still think that would be the case? Probably not. Your 2nd job is going to be much slower, require much more money if you don't craft since you'll need to buy gear since it isn't supplemented by quests anymore.

By the way: some of the weapons you may craft are quite nice. In fact, some of them are even better than the primal weapons due to the ability to meld materia into them. The fall short of relic weapons but guess what? Crafters make those per-requisite weapons. And they make a lot of money doing so.

Not to mention that crafting will continue to become more valuable as more and more content is released where materia may be melded into it.


I could stop right here and say that this alone is enough to dismiss this review entirely. But, let's go on! I want to see what else he has to say.

somerandomthread wrote:
I've seen multiple people with 2-3 jobs at level 50


Me too. Legacy players sure are awesome. One can't help but think that if it were so easy and that you admittedly have a lot of time to play this game (even at work), why are you not 50 yet? I have yet to find anyone in my FC (250+ people) who has acquired more than two level 50 combat jobs.

somerandomthread wrote:
Issue #4: The duty finder has far too many DPS, and not enough tanks/healers to go around


Not a unique issue to FFXIV at all. Go take a look at WoW's queue system and let me know what the differences are. Hint: DPS queues are also much longer than healer/tank queues in WoW as well. Yet, people still somehow manage.

somerandomthread wrote:
the end-game is so easy that Free Companies are legitimately selling clears and relic weapon acquisitions to the highest bidders (roughly 150k gil)


How. Would. You. Know?

Also, think this is exclusive to FFXIV? Again, see: FFXI and WoW. Wanted black belt items? You paid some black mages to get them for you. Wanted some tier piece but you belonged to a casual guild? Pay another guild to run you through.

somerandomthread wrote:
Issue #6: There simply isn't enough to do once you hit 50


How would you....oh I give up.

somerandomthread wrote:
but with players completing the game in roughly 14 days


You mean the minority of players that speed through a game, including endgame, to be 'world first' or 'server first'? Yeah, they exist. SE has some nice gating techniques that require you to play for longer than 14 days to become maxed out.

The first expansion is already in the works. A huge content patch is due in less than 3 months. In fact, had you read some of Yoshi's comments, you would have seen, "I wonder how many players will reach coil 5 before patch 2.1". This implies that he is expecting many people to not be able to get there in time. This suggests he KNOWS game design well enough to continually release content that is just out of reach for the semi-hardcore or casual player.

We still have two primal fights coming up, crystal tower, and so much more. It's really silly to say there isn't anything to do at 50.

Again, this issue is definitely not specific to FFXIV. People rush through all types of MMORPG hardcore content the minute it is released. A MAJORITY of players do not.

somerandomthread wrote:
Issue #7: The gil-sinks, gil-gains debate (which is covered by MMORPG.com already) and the gil-sellers


The STF always bans in waves. You played FFXI for nearly 4 years, remember?

I doubt they're unaware of the situation and are already working on alleviating the spam in towns.

[quote=somerandomthread]Issue #8: The staying power is not present.

As I said, I'm an avid final fantasy fan. I love the world, the lore, the mobs, the characters, etc. I have a great community of people to play with. However, it's 14 days in, and we're nearly out of things to do. How can I justify subscribing month after month after month if there isn't anything new or exciting for me to do?[/quote]

I think we talked about getting to level 50 somewhere in this post...I can't seem to find the 27 instances where I mentioned it, though...

First, get to 50. Then, if you think there's nothing to do, you can always remove subscription until new content comes out. If you're so concerned, you MUST be blowing through content so fast like you've stated other players do, leaving boredom in its wake.

Wait, you aren't the type of player you described: you're still lev...no, I'm not going down that road again.




I like MMORPGs. FFXI was OK if you use your rose-tinted glasses to look at it. WoW used to be (and probably still is) a lot of fun.

How is it that two people who have spent so much time in other MMORPGs (FFXI since NA release, WoW since vanilla, iRO during F2P in 2003, GW2 for a year or two, etc). can come to such vastly different opinions regarding FFXIV?

Well, one of us is at the level cap and has done everything outside of coils with the level capped job. Yet, I still feel like I haven't even scratched the surface of this game.

[quote=KingAlkaiser]no offense to anyone who enjoys game/taking it snail pace but think of the hardcore players reviews as warning of what you will soon complain about in a few weeks or month after. ( heck and I am not even that hardcore myself its just honest review and opinions ). [/quote]

You know... I humored you by reading your 'review' (and then tearing it to pieces). If this is what your argument is based on, I'd recommend not speaking for hardcore players if you aren't one yourself. I haven't seen a, "God, I'm so bored and don't know what to do with my time." in shout, FC chat, or any other forums for that matter in regards to FFXIV.

I will say, though, that I have seen many people point out the fact that FFXI, when released, had very little 'endgame content' in it initially.

It's amazing how many people who think this game will not last cannot see the obvious pattern that SE plans to take. They want to keep subscriptions and will do just like they did in 11 to make sure this happens. FFXIV ARR is their baby. You don't pour this much effort, time, and money into a huge revamp of a project like this and just let it sit around till it self-destructs like in 1.0.

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 4:09am by HitomeOfBismarck
#88 Sep 17 2013 at 4:46 AM Rating: Decent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Does he realize the game was just released? The market is flooded with things because people have been leveling in huge droves up to 50. You EXPECT this type of situation. He mentions that crafting gear is useless since it may be obtained from quest gear.


Actually, you just buy it from NPC because FATE grinding is what you're going to be doing most of the time and gear is unimportant there. Why waste money supporting your fellow crafters?

In WoW you're pretty much forced to support crafters. It's nearly impossible to play for a day without using at least one item that didn't come from a crafter or wasn't crafted by the player.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Go take a look at WoW's queue system and let me know what the differences are. Hint: DPS queues are also much longer than healer/tank queues in WoW as well. Yet, people still somehow manage.

The differences are mostly due to other factors of the game. 5 out of the 11 classes in WoW can tank. For this reason, people tend to wait 10-15 minutes depending on the instance they're looking for. Another difference is that the instances in WoW are actually worth running. Assuming you have the quests flagged, it's actually worth the time spent because the quests grant competitive exp and the rewards can cut leveling time significantly.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
I will say, though, that I have seen many people point out the fact that FFXI, when released, had very little 'endgame content' in it initially.

While this is true, it's not something that you can apply to XIV. Many people still seem to think that XIV is a new game. This is not the case. IIRC it's days short of celebrating it's 3 year anniversary. I guess it's fair to say that much has changed in the past 3 years, but that should be long enough to develop a fair amount of content considering that the game has been around that long.


I'm not trying to back up the posters you're quoting from because I support my own ideas, but some of the claims are valid. I have no doubt that XIV will last another 12 months, but the condition it's in is what should be of concern here.
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#89 Sep 17 2013 at 5:09 AM Rating: Default
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Im realy Curious how Player Pop will be after the first month when the 30days free are over and how it will be at the end of the year or beginning of the next when EQN and TESO Comes out. I dont wish it, but i think when they dont Change something it will be like with SWTOR.
As long all is new and mayority is exploring all the diffrent things and lvling and so on all is fine. But when the masses reaches 50 and sees how mutch grind it is to lvl the other classes and what Little is to do at 50. Well im realy not sure of it. Allready have seen some Players with i think best gear possible for they classes around.

So realy what is there else to do on 50 except lvling another class or farming These boring Dungeons/Primals.
#90 Sep 17 2013 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Level 23 on my Lancer last time I logged out...just chose my Grand Company and still chugging along :) I have a hard time deciding what I want to do when I log in because there is literally so much to do! I have all the crafting jobs at level 5 and fishing is just so much fun along with the hunter log. I will be here 12 months from now, but the people who rushed to 50 might not be and that's just A-okay with me. I prefer to level at my own pace and enjoy the storyline that SE is famous for. I only wish the airships were actual trips so I could enjoy more of the scenery and environment that keeps me coming back to FF games :)
#91 Sep 17 2013 at 6:36 AM Rating: Default
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Btw i think the most boring Jobs to lvl are the crafting Jobs, you just sit there and push the same Buttons in the same order over and over again, nothing on Screen happens and your char dont move and so on. I guess thats the Point where most People start to think about crafting Bots, Makros or something like this.
Ok you can craft a lot by one but this gives so less xp, thats not even worth buying the mats for it.
#92 Sep 17 2013 at 6:48 AM Rating: Decent
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kimjongil76 wrote:
I only ask this question as the game is not even a month old and many people have completed the main storyline. Some have multiple lvl 50 jobs. So in this case it seems it would rely on how fast SE can release new content to do every month, but not necessary new storyline. And yes, I know the game itself will last for many years, but I wonder if an active player base will.

One big thing that brings a community together is people and friends but that also seems to be the weakest point on FFXIV MMO atm. Most things are solo or with random people you may never see again or on other servers. But I am hopeful people will be playing this actively a year from now.


I do enjoy the game as of now, but am thinking long term.


I think majority of legacy players started 2.0 w/ all lvl 50 jobs will be able to find something to do with. As for the rest of us who started in 2.0, or started over in 2.0, will have plenty to do. Getting my SCH to 50 was fun and i rush it more towards the end, around lvl 47 i became completely focused on getting to 50. Now that i am here and working on the HM primals, i find myself slowing down and really enjoying everything else ffxiv has. I know when i go to level my other jobs, i will go alittle slower as the 'itch' to have a lvl 50 is gone. ^.^ i think the game will do great seeing how they will be adding new content every so many months.
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#93 Sep 17 2013 at 7:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Llester wrote:
I mean, the game shares some pretty obvious similarities with the modern themepark model, I'll give you that. But it still retains the good stuff from 1.0, only now its actually playable.


While 1.0 wasn't fit to be released in the state that it was in, some of the ideas it had at the very least were some that I am a fan of, and I don't feel that all of those ideas have really carried over to the re-release. The concept of crafters, gatherers, and disciples of war/magic interacting and benefiting each other positively for example, I feel has been largely tossed aside in favor of extreme accessibility similar to what other MMOs have put out due to a number of factors.

For example, let's look at combat classes. The primary method of leveling up being FATEs, which are extremely efficient and have a very low performance requirement on the part of the player to do well. The game is also filled with very cheap and accessible equipment from vendors and quests. Considering that, it's likely that most DoW/DoM classes can and will bypass any need for crafting whatsoever due to the fact that the benefits are not lasting or necessary, rendering most crafting recipes useless or simply "for fun" instead of having a solid place in the game's economy.

Crafting classes, on the other hand, are best progressed by repeating guild leves that grant absurd amounts of experience points. Some single leves can grant so much experience points that it literally takes two of them to progress from 49 to 50, and this is without ever needing to make an item that could be used by another player. Since crafting classes can be advanced at such a tremendous pace, we are certainly going to see a high number of max level crafters, and with their overall role in the game being somewhat questionable already the ease at which anyone can blaze to the max level also calls into question whether the roles that crafters actually will play in this game will even be in demand. Will there be anything that separates a diehard crafter from your run of the mill burn leves to 50 crafter? Or will crafting be largely ignored when compared to raid gear treadmills and the like?

This is just one example of the mechanics seemingly moving away from their original intention and more toward a mix of what we've seen in some other popular MMOs. Which in some ways is a good thing, but there are always trade offs. Handing out free gear and making the leveling experience very easy and streamlined is nice in the sense that it's very accessible but it leaves something to be desired for anyone who enjoys either a meaningful leveling experience (and not even necessarily a long one, but one where you may meet people, or do or see interesting new things and places, little personal experiences that you may be able to talk about or reflect on down the line), or the crafters who'd like more than just a few end game recipes to be truly worthy of being made and used.

If leveling is simply meant to be completely meaningless for all classes, then I have to wonder if there will be anything that separates one miner from the next, one goldsmith from the next, because if there isn't, I'm having a difficult time seeing how a meaningful role can really be given to these classes. In the DoW/DoM front, I can only hope that there is more to this game than simply adding higher level raids every few months on a constant gear treadmill. I am not making any rash judgments on what is to come yet, but I have to admit I am a little weary of what the state of this game will be (not necessarily the number of players, but the community and the role that each aspect of the game will play) based on what we've seen so far.
#94 Sep 17 2013 at 7:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Missbone wrote:
Btw i think the most boring Jobs to lvl are the crafting Jobs, you just sit there and push the same Buttons in the same order over and over again, nothing on Screen happens and your char dont move and so on. I guess thats the Point where most People start to think about crafting Bots, Makros or something like this.
Ok you can craft a lot by one but this gives so less xp, thats not even worth buying the mats for it.


I have more fun crafting than I do gathering. Crafting at least goes by faster.

Gathering... ugh. I have to make my own game. I call it "mine the same four nodes until you have a stack of 99 of the item you're mining."

I seem to remember having more fun doing it during the beta. Now it's more like a chore...
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#95 Sep 17 2013 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gathering would benefit more from a wider node distribution. Once you get stealth, it also seems obvious that SE had to put an aggro mob by a point or two in any given range just because. Also wouldn't complain much if they bumped base attempts (back up to?) 6 and give us better chances at extra attempts. Right now it is very much a botter's paradise with how mundane the activity is.

As for crafting, it's only really the same when you're churning out base materials. Yes, I made a macro for when I synth 99 iron ore, but that's largely because SE saw fit to make quick synthesis a terrible alternative with both failures and diminished EXP before even HQ bonuses. Either way, taking 20s per synth doesn't bug me that much. Pretty close to where XI was, really, and all that was was slapping mats into the window and hoping for the best.
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#96 Sep 17 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Actually, you just buy it from NPC because FATE grinding is what you're going to be doing most of the time and gear is unimportant there. Why waste money supporting your fellow crafters?


FATEs do not produce much gil. Even NPC prices are pretty substantial later on in the game. So you've grinded this job to 50 through FATEs but now are at 50 where you actually need gear for dungeons. Where do you turn to?

When the population spreads out, it will be interesting to see if people can continue to form FATE parties. I wonder how cognitive SE is in regards to the FATE monopoly? They were pretty swift in fixing AK farming. I wonder if they'll apply the same philosophy and make other facets of the game (dungeons, leves, journals, etc) more rewarding.

I
FilthMcNasty wrote:
n WoW you're pretty much forced to support crafters. It's nearly impossible to play for a day without using at least one item that didn't come from a crafter or wasn't crafted by the player.


When you get to 50 and have to start your relic weapon quest, I think you'll find the same analogy applies. When you get to 50 and need materia melded into your gear (and relic weapon), you'll find that the same analogy applies.

I could also argue that I most certainly did not support crafters every time I logged on WoW when I played. Gathering is pretty easy in that game. Why pay someone for their iron ore when I can just go gather it myself?

FilthMcNasty wrote:
The differences are mostly due to other factors of the game. 5 out of the 11 classes in WoW can tank. For this reason, people tend to wait 10-15 minutes depending on the instance they're looking for. Another difference is that the instances in WoW are actually worth running. Assuming you have the quests flagged, it's actually worth the time spent because the quests grant competitive exp and the rewards can cut leveling time significantly.


The difference is that WoW did not initially have a queue system at all. The difference is that WoW did not have 5 tanking classes to begin with. Warrior, paladin, and druid. I can't even remember if druid tanking was acceptable back then. I don't think it was, actually, at level cap. So you're reduced to two tanks just as 11 and 14 are.

Are we speaking of dungeons as you level or dungeons at cap? The dungeons at cap are most certainly worth running over and over again. It's the only way most people will obtain AF2.

Do you think WoW dungeons were worth running over and over again when it was released? No. Actually, they provided the same things dungeons in FFXIV do now: better gear than quest rewards and some exp/social interaction.

This really should be a non-issue: it's a matter of numbers. I've waited just as long in WoW for a DPS queue as I have in FFXIV. They have fewer classes yet most of those classes can play DPS if they wish. When you roll a DPS in any game, you are the majority. If the majority wants to join an instance where only two slots are available, then there is obviously going to be a wait time. Exaggerating by stating someone has been in queue for 4 hours isn't too believable.

SE seems to have gone a little too far when it comes to preventing ways that RMT can succeed in their game. One gil for monster kills in AK is a little ridiculous, I will agree.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
While this is true, it's not something that you can apply to XIV. Many people still seem to think that XIV is a new game. This is not the case. IIRC it's days short of celebrating it's 3 year anniversary. I guess it's fair to say that much has changed in the past 3 years, but that should be long enough to develop a fair amount of content considering that the game has been around that long


The development team was recast almost entirely. The game engine was revamped. The battle system, class/job system, crafting system, etcetcetcetc were all reworked. They added many things that 1.0 lacked.

Given all that, are you suggesting it's very easy to pick up someone else's work and continue on with it given a time period of around a year and some odd months? It isn't.

They have a lot of fixing up to do in terms of the old 1.0 mess, especially in regards to the story. I'm impressed that they've already announced an expansion in the works. Reminds me exactly of RoZ in 11. In fact, this game mirror's 11's development progress pretty well if you consider it as a new game.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'm not trying to back up the posters you're quoting from because I support my own ideas, but some of the claims are valid. I have no doubt that XIV will last another 12 months, but the condition it's in is what should be of concern here.


He makes a couple valid points. Too bad they are overshadowed by the gaping holes in the rest of his 'points'.
#97 Sep 17 2013 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
I could also argue that I most certainly did not support crafters every time I logged on WoW when I played. Gathering is pretty easy in that game.

You most certainly did. If you didn't then you were severely gimped and doing it wrong. Did you never open your bags? They were made by a tailor. You never ate food or a flask for a raid? They were made by cooks and alchemists. Did you keep your gear updated with gems and enchants? Jewelcrafting, enchanting, leatherworking and blacksmithing all played a part here. So on and so forth.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Why pay someone for their iron ore when I can just go gather it myself?

The question you raise is a brilliant example(I'm not being sarcastic either). Think about it. In XIV you can raise all professions to cap. Now extrapolate that out and apply it to the real world. What if everyone on earth was completely self sufficient? What if you went to university and graduated with a degree in everything? If you're completely self-sufficient and can do anything then you have no need for anyone else.

You kinda made my point for me here, possibly without realizing it. In WoW and even in FFXI you're forced to make the decision on what to specialize in just as you are in the real world. If you can do everything on your own then you don't need anyone for anything at all. How does that bode for the economy? Supply and what? Yeah...

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
They have a lot of fixing up to do in terms of the old 1.0 mess, especially in regards to the story. I'm impressed that they've already announced an expansion in the works. Reminds me exactly of RoZ in 11. In fact, this game mirror's 11's development progress pretty well if you consider it as a new game.

FFXIV is not a new game. I repeat, ARR is not new. It's fair to give them credit for making tons of adjustments, but if you're going to do that then you should also consider their origins. FFXI didn't completely scrap their archaic mechanics in favor of those more commonly found in other games. Almost all of what you refer to as a pass for FFXIV to be considered 'new' is just a direct copy/paste from other games.

I have no problem with SE borrowing on other people's ideas. It would be nice to see some expansion on said ideas that works well with their mechanics, but it doesn't bother me that it looks almost identical. Their issue is, they didn't completely rip what was there and build on it. Mechanics borrowed from other games are implemented to fit those specific games and their own set of mechanics. SE is behind the ball when it comes to adjusting older ideas to fit their currently planned progression of the game into the future.

I have no doubt the changes will be made. Some as quality of life adjustments and others as necessary changes to sustain. The question being asked here is will those changes come sooner than later. We're 3 years out already on this journey.

Humor me for a minute here. Assuming the game wasn't going to 'last' 12 months. Would SE again be able to say sorry, post up a fancy roadmap for the coming adjustments and then re-re-release XIV as a 'new' game again?
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#98 Sep 17 2013 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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No. If this game doesn't last for 12 months, it's game over for Square Enix as a video game company.
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#99 Sep 17 2013 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
You most certainly did. If you didn't then you were severely gimped and doing it wrong. Did you never open your bags? They were made by a tailor. You never ate food or a flask for a raid? They were made by cooks and alchemists. Did you keep your gear updated with gems and enchants? Jewelcrafting, enchanting, leatherworking and blacksmithing all played a part here. So on and so forth.


Anyone who played WoW, for any extended period of time, almost certainly had most of the major professions maxed, when I quit playing wow about 6 months ago, I had max enchanting/tailoring on my warlock, max mining/blacksmithing on my death knight, max herblism/alchemy/fishing/cooking on my rogue, I had a 64 Mage with engineering (which is a pretty worthless profession anyways), and my paladin was just getting into mists recipes for jewel crafting,

Honestly the only good thing about professions were stuff like extra gem slots from blacksmithing and so on, its not like people were raiding end game content in stuff I crafted on my blacksmith, amirite!!??!?!??!??!??

o wait, there were raiding in the bags i made on my tailor, lolololol
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#100 Sep 17 2013 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Im a huge fan of the Materia systume, been putting materia in my gear since level 15, i just hope there is some tough fights ahead of me, im level 26 gladiator just beat toto-rak and with HQ materia melded gear these dungeon mobs dont even phase me, i love tough fights but since i make my own gear (because i find it fun) now the dungeons are way to easy so far. I wish there was a level incressing thing for dungeons like there is for levequests.
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#101 Sep 17 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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IMFW wrote:
Im a huge fan of the Materia systume, been putting materia in my gear since level 15, i just hope there is some tough fights ahead of me, im level 26 gladiator just beat toto-rak and with HQ materia melded gear these dungeon mobs dont even phase me, i love tough fights but since i make my own gear (because i find it fun) now the dungeons are way to easy so far. I wish there was a level incressing thing for dungeons like there is for levequests.


I kind of wish I had levelled up Armorer alongside Culinarian... my main (Lancer/Dragoon) has no materia in his armor, and I wish I could do it myself because I don't even know who to ask.
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