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Guide to crafting - ControlFollow

#1 Sep 13 2013 at 6:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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So I am not sure if its been done else where but I was curious this morning as to if I should upgrade a piece of gear for 2 more control? Would I see a benefit? So i kept track of all my crafting for an hour, control vs the quality recieved etc.

So here is what I have noticed:
1) Good - is a multiplied of 1.5
2) Excellent - is a 4.0 multiplier
3) Inner Quiet - increases control by 20% every time of base (aka 185 = +37 every time)
4) Quality/control actions are relatively constant on recipes below your level, and decrease as you attempt things above your level.
5) There is a linear relationship between your control, and the quality gained.


More specifically.
y = 0.3664x + 32.817
R² = 0.9997

X is your current control, Y is the quality you will gain (at 100% efficiency).

EG

200 control =
106.097 quality gained at 100%
132.621 quality gained at 125%
198.932 quality gained at 125% with 'good'


Also, it means you need roughly 3 control to gain 1 quality per action, but it seems FF14 (unlike 11) rounds normally, so if +1 control will send you from 100.33 to 100.66, you will gain 101 quality. So the easiest way to do it, is plug in your current control, what it would be after the gear upgrade, and see if it puts you over the 0.5 limit and would round you up.

Cheers and have a great morning, sorry if this was already known/posted.


Edited, Sep 15th 2013 3:49pm by dustinfoley

Edited, Sep 19th 2013 2:13pm by dustinfoley
#2 Sep 13 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for looking into this. I haven't gotten deep into crafting yet, just running around gathering a lot so far, but it's nice to see that digging into the system is already beginning!
#3 Sep 13 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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I have seen some anomolies to this equation, but at a base test, this seems to work quite accurately (when combined with some abilities, it seems to deviate from this by up to 50 points of quality... exactly). I will go over my abilities tonight and see if I can find where and what causes this (if I can).
#4 Sep 13 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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Only time I have ever been concerned with control is when trying to get a high enough combined total to craft level 50 * and ** items. So yes, you can get to level 50 without knowing a dang bit about control. Would be interesting to figure out why the quality meter will sometimes randomly spike in percentage. I'm not complaining, I wish it would do it more often =)
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#5 Sep 13 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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The spike you are seeing is a result of the synth being at an Excellent state. You always want to use (I think it's called) Advanced Touch. The ability that gives 150% I believe immediately. If you use any other action it will drop to poor. During Poor, you will only get~50% quality.

If you do the Advanced touch on Excellent, you are effectively getting 300% the normal quality (150% base*200% for the state).
#6 Sep 13 2013 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:

So here is what I have noticed:
1) Good - is a multiplied of 1.5
2) Inner Quiet - increases control by 37 every time, no matter what (at level 34/35 for sure will test other levels later)
3) Quality/control actions are independent of recipe level/difficulty

Excellent has a multiplier of 4.0, or +300% quality, Excellent is always followed by Poor, which is a 0.5 multiplier. Poor and Good always change to Normal, Normal has roughly a 1/3 to 1/4 chance of changing to Good and maybe 1/20 chance of changing to Excellent.

Inner Quiet increases control by 20% of your starting control at each step.

I'm pretty certain that your level vs the level of the synth affects how much quality/progress you get from an action.
#7 Sep 13 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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Wow, I didn't realize that it was 300% quality for excellent... That makes Advanced touch + excellent much more of an powerful than I first thought.
#8 Sep 15 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Well can confirm that quality doesn't depend on level/difficulty, only progress.

37 weaver -
making cotton yarn (level 26 - 26 difficulty, 11 levels lower than me) - 126 for the first quality step
making linen yarn (level 32- 55 difficulty, 5 levels lower) - 126 quality on the first step
making linen short gloves (level 38 - 128 difficulty, 1 level higher) - 126 quality on the first step


Also inner quiet is 20% i finally got a chance to test it on my lower level crafters.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 1:57pm by dustinfoley
#9 Sep 16 2013 at 7:18 AM Rating: Decent
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After miles of frustration, finally beat the demon wall. Also beat Chimera.

Got Gld from 1-18, CNJ hit 15, preparing for that pal transition since i seem to greed every awesome pal drop.

Took weaver from 15-22, carpenter from 1-15, pinged goldsmith 50. Made a bunch of junk and sold it to fuel my leve hq purchases.

Edit - I am braindead, this is posted in the wrong spot.. ><

Edited, Sep 16th 2013 8:21am by Valkayree
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#10 Sep 16 2013 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Starting my work on progress:

For 0 level difference:
y=craftsmanship/4-6.2
This seems to be pretty constant. Its when you correct for level difference that its getting more complicated.




It seems to be a negative polynomial roughly:

y=-0.1*(level)^2-2.5*(level)+(craftsmanship/4-6.2)

level is how many levels lower the recipie is than current level. AKA lvl 32 recipie at level 42 is -10. Its a bit difficult to get values, so if anyone wants to give me their craftsmanship, level difference, and progress (and %, aka 41 progress using 90% skill). I will get more data and compile a better fit line
#11 Sep 16 2013 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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Actually the spike in quality percentage is due to how HQ rate is calculated.

It takes exactly 50% of the max quality of the synth to get you to 15%. If you use 100% HQ ingredients, this is where you start the synth. The other 85% of HQ chance is in the other 50% of the max quality. That is why after 15% your quality percent just starts shooting through the roof.
#12 Sep 16 2013 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Not entirely correct.

It is an arctan scale.

Think arctan(x-pi) + pi/2,
#13 Sep 17 2013 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
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I can't speak to the actual equation for calculating quality percent. I am just sharing what I have observed, and so far it is 100% accurate.

If I have a synth with 1000 quality points and I have it at 500/1000. My HQ percent is 15%. If I use all HQ ingredients on that synth, I start at 500/1000 quality.
#14 Sep 17 2013 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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I found this rather excellent post on FFXIV Reddit yesterday which made me level Carpenter to 16 last night, and Culinarian to (at least) 15 tonight before I take Goldsmith beyond 35.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1mh6um/crafting_guidetheorycrafting_dont_let_crafters/
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#15 Sep 17 2013 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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There are tons of 'ways to hq', the trick is finding one that works with:

Your gear
You abilities (really should get all level 15 abilities imho)
The item your making (durability/number of HQs reagents your using)
And ultimately what level 50 abilities you have, because a level 15 with 2 level 50 abilities will use an entirely different rotation.

I personally HQ 99% of my stuff as long as I start with all HQ reagents, and about 85% when I only use 2/3 or 3/4 HQ reagents. (on anything level 30+) Anything sub 30 and I pretty much HQ it with NQ raw materials.

#16 Sep 17 2013 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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The difficulty does affect Quality. Try 2 stars recipe, you will see this VERY clearly.
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#17 Sep 18 2013 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
I found this rather excellent post on FFXIV Reddit yesterday which made me level Carpenter to 16 last night, and Culinarian to (at least) 15 tonight before I take Goldsmith beyond 35.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1mh6um/crafting_guidetheorycrafting_dont_let_crafters/


Thanks for posting this... I'm going to try this.

I need to level some more crafts to 15 it seems. Smiley: oyvey
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#18 Sep 18 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Btw i have learned tonight the Hardway that crafting with 0 Condition Equip and Weapons (all red), automaticly will end in a failure. Have lost around 30k Gil to learn this lesson.

As Far as i Could watch with my lvl 30 Armor u can make around 150 Crafting Tries bevor your full repaired Gear reches Zero. I Craftet Steel Bares this night, maybe with more difficult or higher items it drops faster and easier oner slower, must watch this more carefully.^^ But 300 in a row was to mutch only get from mats for 300 bars only around 150 so i think thats the time for a break and repair.
#19 Sep 19 2013 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the post this thread has made my lv45 and 50 HQ quest a breeze what I thought would take a frustrating month to get my all DOH final tools has turned into a fun to complete one job a day.Smiley: smile
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#20 Sep 19 2013 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Gear damage is something to watch out for. For all Classes/Jobs, a broken piece of gear is like being naked in that slot. You get no (or at least not enough to actually be calculated to any benefit) bonus from the gear.

So, if your main tool, which typically gives you nearly 40% of your Control and craftsmanship breaks, that means you effectively lost 40% of all your stats.

This is also why you always want to have the best level equivilant tool more so than equipment (including off-hand).

The stats from those makes a significant difference, and since HQ is now more important, and required for almost everything from quests to leves, every point really counts.

As well, don't forget your food (I am not a big culinarian, so I am not trying to push my sales). There are foods that can give upwards of 25 points to Control or Craftsmanship. But remember to use food that is level/stat significant. So, the highest level of food you can eat that gives you the best overall points (so calculate out the percent, and ensure you don't go over the food cap, or if you do, there isn't a food that while may have a lower percentage doesn't give better overall stat bonus).

The 3% exp + the added success rate/Quality increase can be the difference for me is the difference between getting 30k exp a synth, or 70k exp a synth (on a single turn in leve), or 50k and 90k on a three item leve. Then there are the three turn in three item leves.... Exp candy!!! (my record has been 9x8k for synthing + 20k*3*3 for turnins), which is 252k exp for a single leve...
#21 Sep 19 2013 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Noted, so anything below your level is pretty constant, anything above you starts to scale. (as far as quality and control)

Edited, Sep 19th 2013 2:12pm by dustinfoley
#22 Sep 19 2013 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:

So, if your main tool, which typically gives you nearly 40% of your Control and craftsmanship breaks, that means you effectively lost 40% of all your stats.

This is also why you always want to have the best level equivilant tool more so than equipment (including off-hand).


At 50:
Main/off tool: 30% craftsmanship each (60% total)----22% of total control (44% total)

So it is just as import to have all gear good, but you will see the best results from BOTH main AND off tool being as good as possible, as well as the body. If your main tool is over 40% of either stat then you need to upgrade your other gear and your off hand tool.

The point was that if your main tool is broken, you can start a synthesis but it will auto fail. It wasn't about losing 40% of your stats.
#23 Sep 19 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
dustinfoley wrote:
rfolkker wrote:

So, if your main tool, which typically gives you nearly 40% of your Control and craftsmanship breaks, that means you effectively lost 40% of all your stats.

This is also why you always want to have the best level equivilant tool more so than equipment (including off-hand).


At 50:
Main/off tool: 30% craftsmanship each (60% total)----22% of total control (44% total)

So it is just as import to have all gear good, but you will see the best results from BOTH main AND off tool being as good as possible, as well as the body. If your main tool is over 40% of either stat then you need to upgrade your other gear and your off hand tool.

The point was that if your main tool is broken, you can start a synthesis but it will auto fail. It wasn't about losing 40% of your stats.


So is the Control/Craftsmanship from gear and tools consistent until breakage or does it degrade slowly as gear becomes more damaged? I tend to have my gear repaired at about 70%, wondering if I've been wasting gil because I like my gear bars to be teal Smiley: lol
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