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Smallest MMO world to date?Follow

#1 Sep 14 2013 at 4:07 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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Saw this earlier on another forum.

http://home.comcast.net/~nakomaru/ffmaps/ffComposite.png

Most of the zones shown are very small and act more like tunnels than zones, seems to be the smallest world in any mmo at launch. Not comparing this world to other mmos with expansions btw, comparing mmo worls at launch. Even comparing this to vanilla FFXI it's very small.

Added to the inability to swim and the many invisible walls it does seem more of a confined shoebox than an open world. I guess once you get to 50 it doesn't really matter since you never need to leave town ever again to do any of the endgame content anyway. Seeing as all worthwhile endgame content is dungeons you just queue in dungeon finder and never ever have any reason to go anywhere else except around town.

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#2 Sep 14 2013 at 4:36 AM Rating: Good
That you Killua?!?
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#3 Sep 14 2013 at 4:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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The map on that site is missing Coerthas and Mor Dhona, which at level 50 you should know, so I'd say it'a bout on par with the FFXI starting map; in fact it'll be smaller as Jeuno only had three adjoining maps. We already know there is an expansion in the works and there will be quarterly patches (I think that is right), which will no doubt mean more content, and all this has been redesigned and implemented in under three years which, in my mind, is utterly impressive. As for invisible walls, the only ones I've encountered are drops and cliff edges at map zones, so I can't comment on that.

And please, this f*cking, once you're fifty you never need to leave town b*llsh*t is exactly that: b*llsh*t. If you don't leave town at 50 it's because you choose not to develop your character the game was intended, i.e levelling multiple DoW, DoH and DoL classes. Save that crybaby drivel for the OF.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 6:51am by SolomonGrundy
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#4 Sep 14 2013 at 4:44 AM Rating: Good
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
The map on that site is missing Coerthas and Mor Dhona, which at level 50 you should know, so I'd say it'a bout on par with the FFXI starting map; in fact it'll be smaller as Jeuno only had three adjoining maps. we already know there is an expansion in the works and there will be quarterly patches (I think that is right), and all this has been redesigned and implemented in under three years which, in my mind, is utterly impressive. As for invisible walls, the only ones I've encountered are drops and cliff edges at map zones, so I can't comment on that.

And please, this f*cking, once your fifty you never need to leave town b*llsh*t is exactly that, b*llsh*t. If you don't leave town at 50 it's because you choose not to develop your character the game was intended, i.e levelling multiple DoW, DoH and DoL classes. Save that crybaby drivel for the OF.


I like the change of tone :)
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#5 Sep 14 2013 at 5:54 AM Rating: Default
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SolomonGrundy wrote:


And please, this f*cking, once you're fifty you never need to leave town b*llsh*t is exactly that: b*llsh*t. If you don't leave town at 50 it's because you choose not to develop your character the game was intended, i.e levelling multiple DoW, DoH and DoL classes. Save that crybaby drivel for the OF.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 6:51am by SolomonGrundy

MNK is the only job I'm interested in taking all the way.
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#6 Sep 14 2013 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwilightSkye wrote:
SolomonGrundy wrote:


And please, this f*cking, once you're fifty you never need to leave town b*llsh*t is exactly that: b*llsh*t. If you don't leave town at 50 it's because you choose not to develop your character the game was intended, i.e levelling multiple DoW, DoH and DoL classes. Save that crybaby drivel for the OF.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 6:51am by SolomonGrundy

MNK is the only job I'm interested in taking all the way.


Then don't complain that there's nothing to do at 50 and you don't leave town. You've chosen to forgo the other jobs and activities. There's tons to do.
#7preludes, Posted: Sep 14 2013 at 7:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Such as?
#8 Sep 14 2013 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Lol. Well, you like money don't you? Go spend 15 minutes researching the Market Board, find what sells, do a little economic work, and work on building your fortune. Guarantee you won't cap gil anytime soon.
#9 Sep 14 2013 at 8:03 AM Rating: Default
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Loris wrote:
Lol. Well, you like money don't you? Go spend 15 minutes researching the Market Board, find what sells, do a little economic work, and work on building your fortune. Guarantee you won't cap gil anytime soon.


Here is the problem with crafting, everyone can cap crafting very easily. There is nothing you can make that a hundred others can't. Crafting is only worth it if it's like FFXI where small numbers get it to cap or it takes a lot of effort, otherwise it's worthless.
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#10 Sep 14 2013 at 8:04 AM Rating: Good
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Crafting is in fact very useful. Not hard to level, but good for money and gear. Choosing not to play 90%of the game doesn't mean its not available, it just means you're picky.
#11 Sep 14 2013 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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You're right about most crafting right now. Everyone's doing it and its very easy so no profit. Therefore...the profit is in gathering! Grab your tools and head out!

Other things you can do - Dungeon finder is 24/7, go run the dungeons constantly - try to get 4/4 foestriker's set or some other silly goal. Help the noobies.
Fish - its pretty cool and relaxing. There's tons of fishing spots and it takes you to all the corners of the zones.
Try to complete every FATE in the game.
#12 Sep 14 2013 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Then don't complain that there's nothing to do at 50 and you don't leave town. You've chosen to forgo the other jobs and activities. There's tons to do.


Such as?

Don't say crafting it's usless. Crafting was good in FFXI because it was hard to cap, not the case here.

Crafting.

I took two crafts to 100 in FFXI and also leveled Synergy. I am enjoying crafting in FFXIV. It's what Synergy was attempting to be. If you're avoiding crafting in FFXIV because it's "not hard enough", it's your loss. It's a lot of fun!

Imagine that. Having fun in a video game!
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#13 Sep 14 2013 at 9:04 AM Rating: Default
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svlyons wrote:
preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Then don't complain that there's nothing to do at 50 and you don't leave town. You've chosen to forgo the other jobs and activities. There's tons to do.


Such as?

Don't say crafting it's usless. Crafting was good in FFXI because it was hard to cap, not the case here.

Crafting.

I took two crafts to 100 in FFXI and also leveled Synergy. I am enjoying crafting in FFXIV. It's what Synergy was attempting to be. If you're avoiding crafting in FFXIV because it's "not hard enough", it's your loss. It's a lot of fun!

Imagine that. Having fun in a video game!



i think what hes saying is theres no profit in crafting because everyone and their momma can/does do it.. i.e in FFXI you needed smithers or goldsmith to craft certain endgame items that costs millions of gil... only mybe 10-20 ppl had said crafts at 100 so finding said person was rare yet they were in demand and were paid millions for their services.. yet in FFXIV could you say the same if EVERYONE had that craft at 50? crafting in this game doesnt make yo nearly as rich as it did in FFXI because its easily assessable/doable by everyone


kind alike how mercing in FFXI also worked.. ppl would pay groups of ppl to kill pop NMs or quests to get items they wanted that were too hard to get (or their linkshell couldnt get).. that was another way to make money in FFXI.. in FFXIV there sno need for that because 99% of the content can be completed by any/everybody.. Just as Im sure that 99% of the population has Relic weapons in XIV.. Gimme something thats so hard/time consuming to get that you coan literally count the number of ppl who have them
#14 Sep 14 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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I make 100% profit on most of my crafts, why? Because I farm all my own items. Firestone jewelery for example, 300gil + a pop and it costs me 0gil to make. The other gem jewelery for that level range varies from 200-1000g all which costs me nothing to make. There is a profit, not a massive one, but one you build slowly. That is, if you're not too lazy to farm the items.
#15 Sep 14 2013 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
the inability to swim


Oh, yes, awkwardly floating through near-empty oceans is what we really need! Smiley: rolleyes
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#16preludes, Posted: Sep 14 2013 at 9:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It just limits you and it's simply lazy to not have it.
#17 Sep 14 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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Pretty sure Rift was much smaller at their launch.

You could argue that its the least open world game to date, but then you would have to only compare it to open world games I guess. I mean you would have to ignore games like DDO and Neverwinter in that regard.

I prefer open world games, but its not a deal breaker. FFXIV's non open world and inability to transverse all terrain doesn't really detract from the game imo.

Also its not nearly as small as people make it out to be. Try running through all the zones, which you can do since they are linked...it will take you a while for sure.

Agreed that some of the maps seem to be rather small, while others seem to be quite large with few restricted paths.

Ill take a bug free instanced world game over a buggy open world game. Same goes for an open world game with nothing but filler landscape to a game like FFXIV with a high amount of world detail. Just depends on how they make the game. High quality bug free open world game with tons of detail and variation vs a game like FFXIV and id prefer the open world game, thing is, many open world game just staple together hubs with boring filler landscape with no purpose.

But no, not the smallest game world to date...not by a long shot...
#18 Sep 14 2013 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
SolomonGrundy wrote:
As for invisible walls, the only ones I've encountered are drops and cliff edges at map zones, so I can't comment on that.



Being new to FF but an ancient vet when it comes to MMOs, I noticed this and assumed it was a design choice to support new/younger players from accidentally walking off cliffs, etc. and dying; sort of a "training wheels" type thing.

For me it's totally appropriate as other aspects of the game (simple combat mechanics, limited class specialization, etc.) also point to a game designed for maximum appeal and ease of play and protection from "gimping" characters.

I think it is a wise design strategy as MMOs increasingly have greater and greater player turnover and the real success long term lies in drawing first time/new players to a game. Complex game mechanics and "sand box" type designs probably deter too many potential customers.

"On the rails" type designs, like this and the Dragon Age series games, are a safer approach financially for the development companies.




#19 Sep 14 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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Strangerous wrote:
Ill take a bug free instanced world game over a buggy open world game. Same goes for an open world game with nothing but filler landscape to a game like FFXIV with a high amount of world detail. Just depends on how they make the game. High quality bug free open world game with tons of detail and variation vs a game like FFXIV and id prefer the open world game, thing is, many open world game just staple together hubs with boring filler landscape with no purpose.


Exactly this.

I don't mind invisible walls if the other choice is buggy/exploitable terrain. Plus, it follows the pattern established by offline FF games (FFXI as well, i suppose).
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#20 Sep 14 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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clanofthekestrel wrote:
Being new to FF but an ancient vet when it comes to MMOs, I noticed this and assumed it was a design choice to support new/younger players from accidentally walking off cliffs, etc. and dying; sort of a "training wheels" type thing.


This seems likely, as even if you do manage to plummet off a relatively high cliff, you can only die from it if you're in the middle of combat.
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#21 Sep 14 2013 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Lol. Well, you like money don't you? Go spend 15 minutes researching the Market Board, find what sells, do a little economic work, and work on building your fortune. Guarantee you won't cap gil anytime soon.


Here is the problem with crafting, everyone can cap crafting very easily. There is nothing you can make that a hundred others can't. Crafting is only worth it if it's like FFXI where small numbers get it to cap or it takes a lot of effort, otherwise it's worthless.


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#22 Sep 14 2013 at 10:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Lol. Well, you like money don't you? Go spend 15 minutes researching the Market Board, find what sells, do a little economic work, and work on building your fortune. Guarantee you won't cap gil anytime soon.


Here is the problem with crafting, everyone can cap crafting very easily. There is nothing you can make that a hundred others can't. Crafting is only worth it if it's like FFXI where small numbers get it to cap or it takes a lot of effort, otherwise it's worthless.


Here's where I know you don't know what you are talking about. Crafting is easier to level in FFXIV, for sure, but it's also time consuming and pretty boring, hence many people (such as yourself) will not bother. Good news for me, I make more gil selling lower level 1-2k items than I do selling any big ticket stuff, and it's all because of a little effort and legwork. It's really not hard, at all.
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#23 Sep 14 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Lol. Well, you like money don't you? Go spend 15 minutes researching the Market Board, find what sells, do a little economic work, and work on building your fortune. Guarantee you won't cap gil anytime soon.


Here is the problem with crafting, everyone can cap crafting very easily. There is nothing you can make that a hundred others can't. Crafting is only worth it if it's like FFXI where small numbers get it to cap or it takes a lot of effort, otherwise it's worthless.


I disagree. I've made well over 500k gil just leveling armorer 1-50 with all the HQ gear I've made. It certainly helps that I've kept my mining right at that level also, so I gather my own mats for most of it, and I've also leveled most other crafts to at least 20 for support, but that just makes me self sufficient. It means I can craft my own gear (which saves me money), I can make HQ gear (which makes me gobs of money), and I can sell extra mats (which, depending on the mats also makes me gobs of money).

If you hit 50 and are just sitting around in town, you are really missing out on the vast majority of the game. Hunting for unspoiled nodes on your gathering classes, finding mats for 1 and 2 star recipes on lev. 50 crafting classes, heck even just killing mobs or fate grinding for soulbound items to turn into materia or for seals to buy up exp bonuses on other crafting/gathering classes, low level gear, high level gear, etc. Oh, then there's the vast amount of dungeons you can queue for while doing all this. AF quests, relic quests, etc... I'd say there's plenty to keep someone busy and not just sitting in town.
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#24 Sep 14 2013 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's not the size of the zone that matters, it's how you use it~

XI had a lot over over-sized and scantly used zones. Grauberg(S) springs to mind as a big offender here. Seratos in Rift also stands out as a zone way too big for its purpose. Could probably say a lot of similar for GW2 with the forced level capping, but whatever. Dude obviously hates XIV and is fishing for every reason to grumble about it.
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#25 Sep 14 2013 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
Seriha wrote:
It's not the size of the zone that matters, it's how you use it~

XI had a lot over over-sized and scantly used zones. Grauberg(S) springs to mind as a big offender here. Seratos in Rift also stands out as a zone way too big for its purpose. Could probably say a lot of similar for GW2 with the forced level capping, but whatever. Dude obviously hates XIV and is fishing for every reason to grumble about it.


On a forum where it really does nothing at all, to boot.

EDIT: There's a Ford enthusiast club here in Phoenix that I know of. I'm going to walk in there and ***** about Ford's all day long. That'll show them. Because I'm entitled to my opinion and free to impound it on others.

EDIT 2: And then I'll ***** about how everyone ignores me, trashes my opinion, and call them all white knights. And then I'll blame the community for being a failure.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 2:13pm by darexius2010

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 2:15pm by darexius2010
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#26 Sep 14 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
He's talking as if XI didn't have the same issue. You stood in Jeuno all day, then warped to Abyssea, only to eventually warp back to Jeuno. You stood in Jeuno all day waiting to go to sky, by teleporting to the crag and getting insta ported up there. There's really no difference, there may have been 10 extra footsteps taken to achieve the same thing. When CoP came out, you stood in Jeuno waiting for the proper shout...Much like XIV, you got out of those places by going to level and doing side quests, shocker!
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#27 Sep 15 2013 at 3:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
svlyons wrote:
preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Then don't complain that there's nothing to do at 50 and you don't leave town. You've chosen to forgo the other jobs and activities. There's tons to do.


Such as?

Don't say crafting it's usless. Crafting was good in FFXI because it was hard to cap, not the case here.

Crafting.

I took two crafts to 100 in FFXI and also leveled Synergy. I am enjoying crafting in FFXIV. It's what Synergy was attempting to be. If you're avoiding crafting in FFXIV because it's "not hard enough", it's your loss. It's a lot of fun!

Imagine that. Having fun in a video game!




kind alike how mercing in FFXI also worked.. ppl would pay groups of ppl to kill pop NMs or quests to get items they wanted that were too hard to get (or their linkshell couldnt get).. that was another way to make money in FFXI.. in FFXIV there sno need for that because 99% of the content can be completed by any/everybody.. Just as Im sure that 99% of the population has Relic weapons in XIV.. Gimme something thats so hard/time consuming to get that you coan literally count the number of ppl who have them


Sweet, it looks like I've finally made it to a 1% club!
#28 Sep 15 2013 at 4:08 AM Rating: Decent
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You're all looking at it in the wrong way entirely.

Is it a small world map? Sure

Is it too small? No, it's absolutely perfect for the game and the amount of people playing it. This is one kind of game that really wouldnt get a use out of wide open deserted area's with no people visiting it for days.

There need to be populated area's all over.
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#29preludes, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 4:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So you all admit that this is an incredibly small MMO, you're just finding ways to defend that. FFXI at launch was far bigger than this is and it had half the development time. There is no excuse for such a claustrophobic "world".
#30 Sep 15 2013 at 4:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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All I can think of is the song, It's a small world after all.

But seriously what does size matter if the world is rich and vibrant? I've played somewhere between 60 to 80 hours of A Realm Reborn and I still have plenty to do. I even had a mostly capped character from 1.0 and I'm still running around with an enormous list of things I need to do.
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#31 Sep 15 2013 at 5:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
<blahblah>

And more hogwash.

Look, I won't say instancing is the best in all circumstances, but let's look to the alternative of what XI's "engaging" endgame provided. Going out to Sky/Sea or camping HNMs basically introduced you to competition, botting, MPK, and server drama. I know the trolls love to espouse that the drama makes a community stronger, but my take on it is it's divisive and basically hedges players further apart when fact, fiction, and over-dramatization comes into play. XI wasn't a PvP game, yet it was wrought with pseudo-PvP via limited resources and the steps players would take to get an edge. XIV technically isn't different here, and to be honest, I hope PvP never becomes a priority for the game. But I can at least understand some people like challenges beyond your basic enemy AIs. As long as PvP is never a "must do" like Aion, Rift, or GW2, we'll be okay.

But more specific to the hogwash, there are phases of the relic quests where you must actually leave town. You don't get GC seals just sitting in the city, either. Maybe you want to buy the stat reset item or put together a gear set for an achievement or secondary/tertiary job. Given time, I'm sure we'll see some kind of merit system for overflow EXP, too, which will have people out grinding FATEs, too. As well, I've seen you claim XI's crafting system was superior based on the premise of difficulty to level and rare materials. I can assure you people could PL crafts in XI, too, and without the restriction of leves for bonus EXP. No, XI craft leveling involved finding the cheapest synth and spamming the **** of out of it. As well, many items were "worthless" because of the insistence that HNM or event gear beat crafted counterparts. Maybe you'd have an exception here and there, but a small handful of items does not a healthy economy make. Nevermind the sh*tfest of "public" gathering and there being nothing to it other than carrying a bunch of tools and wearing field gear for an arguably negligible effect.

Anyway, the launch FFXI the NA crowd got was actually the RotZ expansion, too, which means we also didn't go through some of the early growing pains of XI. True launch endgame was getting to 50, beating Shadowlord for R5, and then camping Roc, Simurgh, Serket, Lumberjack, and then maybe playing with the Sin Skulls in Eldieme. That sounds incredibly boring to me, and that's with trying to distance myself from the actual knowledge of the game and those task difficulties. But in the interest of comparison, let's call completing XIV's main story to beating SL (though I'd argue more difficult). You could liken the Odin and Behemoth FATEs to the launch HNMs. Crafting is more robust. Gathering is fair. Leveling is handled more intelligently. There's a critical flaw in thinking forced grouping for EXP built community, and that's not everyone partied up with the intention of being your next best friend, even if you pushed aside the language barrier that happened in mixed-region parties. Both have seen and will see endgame groups arise and fall, so that's the other side of the community coin. You've played the "XI community is better than WoW community" card in other threads, too, when I'll say both are blessed with people who are awesome and people who suck. You're just running around with a pretty strong confirmation bias because the "suck" people are easier to "see" with spam shouts or rage quitting a dungeon. Frickin' **** if I didn't have some princess people in XI drop a group because we weren't getting X EXP an hour or didn't have some "tried and true" wiki party layout.

So, I'll just be curt. XIV isn't the problem despite its fixable flaws. It's you. Nothing you say here will make XI better. No twisting of interviews actually affirms your agenda. Confusing their plans for the mobile market with the console/PC market is just as inane. Tossing aside reviews you disagree with as if your opinion is any more legitimate is outright dumb. And oodles of wasted zone space still doesn't make a better game. Cling desperately to that "cycle" of launch retention all you want. Nobody's arguing that everyone who picks up the game will stick with it. What's rubbing people the wrong way is the claim everyone is going to quit because... well, you think they're you. Mercifully, they're not.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 7:32am by Seriha
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#32 Sep 15 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Central Thanaland feels almost 1.5x times bigger than Tahrongi Canyon.. everytime I open up that map, I cringe >.<. A lot of times, I need to take breaks when making my long treks, cause..they are long.

The world certainly does not feel small to me.
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#33 Sep 15 2013 at 7:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
So you all admit that this is an incredibly small MMO, you're just finding ways to defend that. FFXI at launch was far bigger than this is and it had half the development time. There is no excuse for such a claustrophobic "world".


Not sure where you got that info from, in actuality FFXI was in development for nearly 6 years, whereas XIV was completely redesigned (as in, the entire world was pretty much recreated in 3) and each and every zone in it has far MORE to do. They might be smaller, but they are also much fuller. There aren't giant mazes where you have to just run or choco for 5+ minutes seeing absolutely nothing but the occasional mob. To me, that's a very good thing.

preludes wrote:

I guess some people like playing in a shoe box. Me? I'd prefer ot have a well crafted large world I can explore (and this is what almost every other mmo offers), this isn't about people being around me all the time, who really cares about that? I want a big open world with lots of out of the way places to explore.


Have you bothered to actually explore the whole word? There are tons and tons of out of the way places to explore that are some of the most beautiful I've seen in any mmo. The zones might be smaller, but there are still a myriad of exceptional touches that make them unique, and make discovery a truly excellent experience.

preludes wrote:

Every day that passes crafting becomes less and less useful

Uh, actually it's the exact opposite. Every day that passes more people are reaching higher levels, requiring high level gear, requiring triple melds, requiring some of those super rare materials from unspoiled nodes, etc. I've been asked by my FC almost daily to make items for players on my armorer. If you think it's becoming less and less useful, you're doin it wrong.

preludes wrote:
Are you 50? you literally sit in town and never ever have to move out of it at any time for any reason in FFXIV. At least in FFXI you had to move out of town and move to places to do your endgame content. This is the difference between open world content driven game and a game that will put all it's endgame into a dungeon system. Goto sky zones, goto sea zones, goto abyssea zones or maybe do some dungeon content. XIV? Just click that dungeon finder button.


And once again, you are wrong. If you are only sitting in town at 50, you are missing 95% of the game content, which I already explained in a previous post which you ignored. But hey, that's fine. Keep sitting in town and complaining about how boring it is. I'll be out in the world exploring, leveling multiple jobs, working on relics and AF, gathering. Having fun. You know, what the game was made for.
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#34 Sep 15 2013 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
preludes wrote:
Are you 50? you literally sit in town and never ever have to move out of it at any time for any reason in FFXIV. At least in FFXI you had to move out of town and move to places to do your endgame content. This is the difference between open world content driven game and a game that will put all it's endgame into a dungeon system. Goto sky zones, goto sea zones, goto abyssea zones or maybe do some dungeon content. XIV? Just click that dungeon finder button.


Been 50 since 1.0, and have not sat around Ul'dah, are you 50 yet? Listen, if you enjoy wasting even more time simply walking around, more power to you. Fact is, you still stood in Jeuno like a knob until your event started, until you saw your approriate shout, etc. The zones were huge to waste your time, there's some appreciation to them, but overall time wasters. He for some reason thinks we hate XI, even though I'm sure most of us played it for years. Is it that hard to accept some of us have lost interest in it and have moved on to something else?

If you still enjoy XI, then keep playing it, just realize most of your arguments lately make NO sense. If you're goal is to troll, then well played sir, well played.
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#35preludes, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 8:08 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Have fun exploring the small world that you already saw all of while leveling, leveling jobs you don't have any interest in and grinding dungeons for gear that otehrs have already capped out on 2 weeks in. This game is small and shallow, the more time that passes the more everyone will see that, new mmo sheen wears fast.
#36preludes, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 8:13 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This isn't really about ffxi, this is abotu a newly launched mmo with major flaws that will push most of the people on the servers away within the first couple of months. I don't only play FFXI I've played almost every MMO that has launched over the last 4-5 years, there is nothing in this game that will keep players around long-term. In fact it seems designed in such a way to make most quit within a short amount of time.
#37 Sep 15 2013 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm going to say this in giant font because preludes is spreading around factually incorrect information. (Hey, that's my schtick!)

FFXI AT LAUNCH WAS SMALLER THAN FFXIV AT LAUNCH IN JAPAN BECAUSE IT HAD ONLY THE CITY ZONES, THE FIELD AREAS TO JEUNO, THE BEASTMAN DUNGEONS, AND QUFIM AVAILABLE. BEAUCEDINE AND XARCABARD WERE ADDED IN PATCHES.

Delkfutt's Tower was the final dungeon available. Even the friggin deep parts of KRT were not added until Rise of the Zilart.

The NA speakers got a vastly expanded world, probably double in size, because we didn't get access to the game until a year after it launched when the first expansion came out.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 10:44am by Catwho
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#38 Sep 15 2013 at 9:06 AM Rating: Default
preludes wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
preludes wrote:
Are you 50? you literally sit in town and never ever have to move out of it at any time for any reason in FFXIV. At least in FFXI you had to move out of town and move to places to do your endgame content. This is the difference between open world content driven game and a game that will put all it's endgame into a dungeon system. Goto sky zones, goto sea zones, goto abyssea zones or maybe do some dungeon content. XIV? Just click that dungeon finder button.


Been 50 since 1.0, and have not sat around Ul'dah, are you 50 yet? Listen, if you enjoy wasting even more time simply walking around, more power to you. Fact is, you still stood in Jeuno like a knob until your event started, until you saw your approriate shout, etc. The zones were huge to waste your time, there's some appreciation to them, but overall time wasters. He for some reason thinks we hate XI, even though I'm sure most of us played it for years. Is it that hard to accept some of us have lost interest in it and have moved on to something else?

If you still enjoy XI, then keep playing it, just realize most of your arguments lately make NO sense. If you're goal is to troll, then well played sir, well played.


This isn't really about ffxi, this is abotu a newly launched mmo with major flaws that will push most of the people on the servers away within the first couple of months. I don't only play FFXI I've played almost every MMO that has launched over the last 4-5 years, there is nothing in this game that will keep players around long-term. In fact it seems designed in such a way to make most quit within a short amount of time.


I do not believe it was an intentional design for that reason but for a couple of others:

1. The game "feels" and plays like a console RPG more than a true MMO. Not surprisingly, since it is a multi platform game. They had to design everything to the lowest common denominator and that explains the simple combat mechanics, world design, etc. There are many aspects of what would be considered "standard" in Tier 1 MMO that FFXIV cannot support fully due to those constraints.

2. The game feels like it was designed for younger/first time players. It could be coincidence that many of things mentioned in 1 above also happen to support this theory but many of the artistic choices also have a very "kiddie" look and feel to them. In the long term this will be a smart move as the burn out rate for MMOs is so steep that focusing on younger players provides a semi-permanent target market, aka "That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older and they stay the same age."


#39 Sep 15 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Default
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Catwho wrote:
I'm going to say this in giant font because preludes is spreading around factually incorrect information. (Hey, that's my schtick!)

FFXI AT LAUNCH WAS SMALLER THAN FFXIV AT LAUNCH IN JAPAN BECAUSE IT HAD ONLY THE CITY ZONES, THE FIELD AREAS TO JEUNO, THE BEASTMAN DUNGEONS, AND QUFIM AVAILABLE. BEAUCEDINE AND XARCABARD WERE ADDED IN PATCHES.

Delkfutt's Tower was the final dungeon available. Even the friggin deep parts of KRT were not added until Rise of the Zilart.

The NA speakers got a vastly expanded world, probably double in size, because we didn't get access to the game until a year after it launched when the first expansion came out.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 10:44am by Catwho



seriously catwho?


so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay

Im sure if tyou just cut that list in HALF it would STILL be bigger than FFXIV
#40 Sep 15 2013 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm loving the game but I will admit the world is very small. But guess what, that's what patches and expansions are for. Doesn't worry me.
#41 Sep 15 2013 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay


Palborough Mines, Beadeux, Crawler's Nest, KRT, Ghelsba Outpost, Davoi, Eldieme, Giddeus, Oztroja, Garlaige, and Horutoto are dungeons.
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#42 Sep 15 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Here's an idea. Why not list quests that involve, say, East Ronf. Now compare to that to quests that involve Eastern La Noscea. Bet ya XIV uses the zone resources more before even considering FATEs, gathering, hunt logs, and general killing.
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#43 Sep 15 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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Miles of desolation with no pre-crafted rides or experiences, the people have to make their own fun. This is a bit extreme and a bit false describing XI but just tossing it out there.



Tightly condensed pre-crafted rides or experiences, you don't have to create your own fun. This is a bit extreme and a bit false describing XIV but just tossing it out there.



I've had fun in both. Smiley: grin

Oh by the way, who is to say future lands can't have larger regions, who is to say crafting will always be easy and there will be no specialization implemented at one point or a cap to how many crafts you can learn. Everything can change, reality changes, what you see now doesn't mean that's how it will always be.



Edited, Sep 15th 2013 12:09pm by sandpark
#44DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 10:23 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) theyre still part of the open world.. yo no wyou can actually physically walk into them and explor ethem.. like in any decent mmo
#45DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 10:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) "Oh by the way, who is to say future lands can't have larger regions, who is to say crafting will always be easy and there will be no specialization implemented at one point or a cap to how many crafts you can learn. Everything can change, reality changes, what you see now doesn't mean that's how it will always be."
#46 Sep 15 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Except there was really nothing to find. Yes, there are exceptions, but by and large the zones were empty. What you saw at the zone line was pretty much what you saw further in.
#47 Sep 15 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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theyre still part of the open world.. yo no wyou can actually physically walk into them and explor ethem.. like in any decent mmo


You've just claimed that no MMO that uses instances is decent.
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#48 Sep 15 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"Oh by the way, who is to say future lands can't have larger regions, who is to say crafting will always be easy and there will be no specialization implemented at one point or a cap to how many crafts you can learn. Everything can change, reality changes, what you see now doesn't mean that's how it will always be."

MMos usually have additions... but they dont change dramatically.. youre example woud be considered dramatic change... what MMOs have done that and wee till the same game.

As for your other two videos.. i prefer sandbox over amusement park anyday

Merit points didn't exist until later, I consider that a dramatic change and up until that point and a little beyond that XI remained the same game. Who would have ever thought a Final Fantasy game would have large scale PvP? Yet, when it get's added here it will be optional and the core game will remain intact should you choose to ignore PvP. Who would have ever thought the worst rated mmo in history would re-release at a current score of 86 on metacritic, and receive mostly praise though it didn't do anything out of the normal mmo affair.

Xi went from extreme hardcore consume your life to progress, to pretty **** casual over it's ten year span. What if this game did the reverse? Went from pretty **** casual to some of the meatiest endgame ever or at least meatier than XI. XI mantra was the journey and leveling experience. ARR's mantra is not particularly focused on the journey. Yoshi even stated that the real test are going to come in future expansions at endgame. Think of the hardest mmo fight you ever engaged in, do you think a duty finder would put together the optimal party for you if party cohesion required **** near perfection?

The last Bruce Lee video was posted to point out not to look and think how about you feel. But to just feel how you feel. If you feel better playing another game versus this one then do it. I don't like certain things, but trying to control or change something out of my control is only going to lead to resentment and unhappiness. We can't control **** except what we do or don't put up with and how we feel about stuff. Incoming cheesy slogan: What you permit, you promote.
#49 Sep 15 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Quote:
Not sure where you got that info from, in actuality FFXI was in development for nearly 6 years, whereas XIV was completely redesigned (as in, the entire world was pretty much recreated in 3) and each and every zone in it has far MORE to do. They might be smaller, but they are also much fuller. There aren't giant mazes where you have to just run or choco for 5+ minutes seeing absolutely nothing but the occasional mob. To me, that's a very good thing.


Project rapture was announced in early 2005 9 years, with the massive amount of manpower this game was given that should of been enough. As I said, most of the rest of the things you mentioned are defending a small shoebox.


And as I said which you again ignored, they completely redesigned every single zone in three years. It wasn't just a new coat of paint or something, it was a complete overhaul of almost every single zone. They did this in less than 3 years. FFXI was in production for 6 years before it was launched.

preludes wrote:
Quote:
Have you bothered to actually explore the whole word? There are tons and tons of out of the way places to explore that are some of the most beautiful I've seen in any mmo. The zones might be smaller, but there are still a myriad of exceptional touches that make them unique, and make discovery a truly excellent experience.


Of course there are but it's still much smaller than almost any other mmo, it's a cramped quickly made world. If that's enough for you then great but it's not going to be for many.


It's not cramped at all. There are still tons of open areas, such as Sagoli Desert, most of Coerthas and Mhor Dona, Eastern La Noscea, etc. It's just that instead of yalms and yalms of absolutely nothing, they made the (smart) decision to actually reduce the expanses of nothingness and increase the amount of landmarks, unique scenery, etc. Again, that was an incredibly smart decision. If you want a giant open world full of nothing to explore, go play ffxi. The world is still there, and 95% of it is just as lacking of any content as it was 10 years ago.

preludes wrote:
Quote:
Uh, actually it's the exact opposite. Every day that passes more people are reaching higher levels, requiring high level gear, requiring triple melds, requiring some of those super rare materials from unspoiled nodes, etc. I've been asked by my FC almost daily to make items for players on my armorer. If you think it's becoming less and less useful, you're doin it wrong.


I'm not wrong because I've experienced easy crafting cap mmos many times before, as more time passes more and more people get it capped crafters become worthless. Every day that passes your capped crafts mean less, you'll see this soon enough.


Actually, you ARE wrong. I've played easy crafting cap games too. Like lotro, like WoW, like pretty much every other mainstream MMO that wasn't ffxi. Crafting was never pointless or worthless in any of them. It was actually incredibly useful in most of them. And the longer the game was out, the more useful it became because of the added recipes and bonuses. Your speculation here is incredibly false.

preludes wrote:
Quote:
And once again, you are wrong. If you are only sitting in town at 50, you are missing 95% of the game content, which I already explained in a previous post which you ignored. But hey, that's fine. Keep sitting in town and complaining about how boring it is. I'll be out in the world exploring, leveling multiple jobs, working on relics and AF, gathering. Having fun. You know, what the game was made for.


Have fun exploring the small world that you already saw all of while leveling, leveling jobs you don't have any interest in and grinding dungeons for gear that otehrs have already capped out on 2 weeks in. This game is small and shallow, the more time that passes the more everyone will see that, new mmo sheen wears fast.

Small world, incredibly fast leveling, worthless crafting and boring endgame that is built almost fully around dungeon grinding. Maybe they will add dailies soon as some open world content...?


I will have fun doing all of this. Because to me, it IS fun. I love leveling other jobs, because I actually enjoy them. I like grinding dungeons because the dungeons are a ton of fun and some are relatively challenging. The game is not shallow in the least, and your comments lead me to believe that you just don't have any clue what you are talking about. This game has more content on launch than any other mmo I've played by leaps and bounds. It puts Vanilla WoW to shame.

If you really had any clue about what you were talking about, you'd know that after your first class, leveling is not overly fast, you'd also know that crafting is not worthless. I get it, you don't like instanced content. Good for you. Go play a game that doesn't have it and quit complaining about stuff that you really don't seem to have any grasp on other than whining about how you don't like it and making assumptions that others won't either.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 12:53pm by BartelX
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#50 Sep 15 2013 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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I have a question on what peoples perception of large zones are.

Does it have to be seamless?

Or would four zones interconnected by a four way zone line in the center be considered a large zone to you?

Say like we have a huge floating continent, made up of four interconnected zones(speaking geographically in terms of size of current ARR zones), but all giving the illusion of a big zone and classified as one zone "The Floating Continent".
#51DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 11:35 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) YEs thats exactly what Im saying. Though keep in mind that doesnt aply to having ANY instnaces.. I mean technically dynamis and limbus wee "nstances" right? but if 100% of your game is instanced based aside from a few hub cities and the outdoor areas outside those cities (I.E DC UNIVERS EONLINE FOR EXAMPLE) then yea it is not a decent game
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