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Smallest MMO world to date?Follow

#1 Sep 14 2013 at 4:07 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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Saw this earlier on another forum.

http://home.comcast.net/~nakomaru/ffmaps/ffComposite.png

Most of the zones shown are very small and act more like tunnels than zones, seems to be the smallest world in any mmo at launch. Not comparing this world to other mmos with expansions btw, comparing mmo worls at launch. Even comparing this to vanilla FFXI it's very small.

Added to the inability to swim and the many invisible walls it does seem more of a confined shoebox than an open world. I guess once you get to 50 it doesn't really matter since you never need to leave town ever again to do any of the endgame content anyway. Seeing as all worthwhile endgame content is dungeons you just queue in dungeon finder and never ever have any reason to go anywhere else except around town.

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#2 Sep 14 2013 at 4:36 AM Rating: Good
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#3 Sep 14 2013 at 4:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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The map on that site is missing Coerthas and Mor Dhona, which at level 50 you should know, so I'd say it'a bout on par with the FFXI starting map; in fact it'll be smaller as Jeuno only had three adjoining maps. We already know there is an expansion in the works and there will be quarterly patches (I think that is right), which will no doubt mean more content, and all this has been redesigned and implemented in under three years which, in my mind, is utterly impressive. As for invisible walls, the only ones I've encountered are drops and cliff edges at map zones, so I can't comment on that.

And please, this f*cking, once you're fifty you never need to leave town b*llsh*t is exactly that: b*llsh*t. If you don't leave town at 50 it's because you choose not to develop your character the game was intended, i.e levelling multiple DoW, DoH and DoL classes. Save that crybaby drivel for the OF.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 6:51am by SolomonGrundy
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#4 Sep 14 2013 at 4:44 AM Rating: Good
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
The map on that site is missing Coerthas and Mor Dhona, which at level 50 you should know, so I'd say it'a bout on par with the FFXI starting map; in fact it'll be smaller as Jeuno only had three adjoining maps. we already know there is an expansion in the works and there will be quarterly patches (I think that is right), and all this has been redesigned and implemented in under three years which, in my mind, is utterly impressive. As for invisible walls, the only ones I've encountered are drops and cliff edges at map zones, so I can't comment on that.

And please, this f*cking, once your fifty you never need to leave town b*llsh*t is exactly that, b*llsh*t. If you don't leave town at 50 it's because you choose not to develop your character the game was intended, i.e levelling multiple DoW, DoH and DoL classes. Save that crybaby drivel for the OF.


I like the change of tone :)
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#5 Sep 14 2013 at 5:54 AM Rating: Default
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SolomonGrundy wrote:


And please, this f*cking, once you're fifty you never need to leave town b*llsh*t is exactly that: b*llsh*t. If you don't leave town at 50 it's because you choose not to develop your character the game was intended, i.e levelling multiple DoW, DoH and DoL classes. Save that crybaby drivel for the OF.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 6:51am by SolomonGrundy

MNK is the only job I'm interested in taking all the way.
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#6 Sep 14 2013 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwilightSkye wrote:
SolomonGrundy wrote:


And please, this f*cking, once you're fifty you never need to leave town b*llsh*t is exactly that: b*llsh*t. If you don't leave town at 50 it's because you choose not to develop your character the game was intended, i.e levelling multiple DoW, DoH and DoL classes. Save that crybaby drivel for the OF.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 6:51am by SolomonGrundy

MNK is the only job I'm interested in taking all the way.


Then don't complain that there's nothing to do at 50 and you don't leave town. You've chosen to forgo the other jobs and activities. There's tons to do.
#7preludes, Posted: Sep 14 2013 at 7:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Such as?
#8 Sep 14 2013 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Lol. Well, you like money don't you? Go spend 15 minutes researching the Market Board, find what sells, do a little economic work, and work on building your fortune. Guarantee you won't cap gil anytime soon.
#9 Sep 14 2013 at 8:03 AM Rating: Default
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Loris wrote:
Lol. Well, you like money don't you? Go spend 15 minutes researching the Market Board, find what sells, do a little economic work, and work on building your fortune. Guarantee you won't cap gil anytime soon.


Here is the problem with crafting, everyone can cap crafting very easily. There is nothing you can make that a hundred others can't. Crafting is only worth it if it's like FFXI where small numbers get it to cap or it takes a lot of effort, otherwise it's worthless.
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#10 Sep 14 2013 at 8:04 AM Rating: Good
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Crafting is in fact very useful. Not hard to level, but good for money and gear. Choosing not to play 90%of the game doesn't mean its not available, it just means you're picky.
#11 Sep 14 2013 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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You're right about most crafting right now. Everyone's doing it and its very easy so no profit. Therefore...the profit is in gathering! Grab your tools and head out!

Other things you can do - Dungeon finder is 24/7, go run the dungeons constantly - try to get 4/4 foestriker's set or some other silly goal. Help the noobies.
Fish - its pretty cool and relaxing. There's tons of fishing spots and it takes you to all the corners of the zones.
Try to complete every FATE in the game.
#12 Sep 14 2013 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Then don't complain that there's nothing to do at 50 and you don't leave town. You've chosen to forgo the other jobs and activities. There's tons to do.


Such as?

Don't say crafting it's usless. Crafting was good in FFXI because it was hard to cap, not the case here.

Crafting.

I took two crafts to 100 in FFXI and also leveled Synergy. I am enjoying crafting in FFXIV. It's what Synergy was attempting to be. If you're avoiding crafting in FFXIV because it's "not hard enough", it's your loss. It's a lot of fun!

Imagine that. Having fun in a video game!
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#13 Sep 14 2013 at 9:04 AM Rating: Default
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svlyons wrote:
preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Then don't complain that there's nothing to do at 50 and you don't leave town. You've chosen to forgo the other jobs and activities. There's tons to do.


Such as?

Don't say crafting it's usless. Crafting was good in FFXI because it was hard to cap, not the case here.

Crafting.

I took two crafts to 100 in FFXI and also leveled Synergy. I am enjoying crafting in FFXIV. It's what Synergy was attempting to be. If you're avoiding crafting in FFXIV because it's "not hard enough", it's your loss. It's a lot of fun!

Imagine that. Having fun in a video game!



i think what hes saying is theres no profit in crafting because everyone and their momma can/does do it.. i.e in FFXI you needed smithers or goldsmith to craft certain endgame items that costs millions of gil... only mybe 10-20 ppl had said crafts at 100 so finding said person was rare yet they were in demand and were paid millions for their services.. yet in FFXIV could you say the same if EVERYONE had that craft at 50? crafting in this game doesnt make yo nearly as rich as it did in FFXI because its easily assessable/doable by everyone


kind alike how mercing in FFXI also worked.. ppl would pay groups of ppl to kill pop NMs or quests to get items they wanted that were too hard to get (or their linkshell couldnt get).. that was another way to make money in FFXI.. in FFXIV there sno need for that because 99% of the content can be completed by any/everybody.. Just as Im sure that 99% of the population has Relic weapons in XIV.. Gimme something thats so hard/time consuming to get that you coan literally count the number of ppl who have them
#14 Sep 14 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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I make 100% profit on most of my crafts, why? Because I farm all my own items. Firestone jewelery for example, 300gil + a pop and it costs me 0gil to make. The other gem jewelery for that level range varies from 200-1000g all which costs me nothing to make. There is a profit, not a massive one, but one you build slowly. That is, if you're not too lazy to farm the items.
#15 Sep 14 2013 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
the inability to swim


Oh, yes, awkwardly floating through near-empty oceans is what we really need! Smiley: rolleyes
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#16preludes, Posted: Sep 14 2013 at 9:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It just limits you and it's simply lazy to not have it.
#17 Sep 14 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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Pretty sure Rift was much smaller at their launch.

You could argue that its the least open world game to date, but then you would have to only compare it to open world games I guess. I mean you would have to ignore games like DDO and Neverwinter in that regard.

I prefer open world games, but its not a deal breaker. FFXIV's non open world and inability to transverse all terrain doesn't really detract from the game imo.

Also its not nearly as small as people make it out to be. Try running through all the zones, which you can do since they are linked...it will take you a while for sure.

Agreed that some of the maps seem to be rather small, while others seem to be quite large with few restricted paths.

Ill take a bug free instanced world game over a buggy open world game. Same goes for an open world game with nothing but filler landscape to a game like FFXIV with a high amount of world detail. Just depends on how they make the game. High quality bug free open world game with tons of detail and variation vs a game like FFXIV and id prefer the open world game, thing is, many open world game just staple together hubs with boring filler landscape with no purpose.

But no, not the smallest game world to date...not by a long shot...
#18 Sep 14 2013 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
SolomonGrundy wrote:
As for invisible walls, the only ones I've encountered are drops and cliff edges at map zones, so I can't comment on that.



Being new to FF but an ancient vet when it comes to MMOs, I noticed this and assumed it was a design choice to support new/younger players from accidentally walking off cliffs, etc. and dying; sort of a "training wheels" type thing.

For me it's totally appropriate as other aspects of the game (simple combat mechanics, limited class specialization, etc.) also point to a game designed for maximum appeal and ease of play and protection from "gimping" characters.

I think it is a wise design strategy as MMOs increasingly have greater and greater player turnover and the real success long term lies in drawing first time/new players to a game. Complex game mechanics and "sand box" type designs probably deter too many potential customers.

"On the rails" type designs, like this and the Dragon Age series games, are a safer approach financially for the development companies.




#19 Sep 14 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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Strangerous wrote:
Ill take a bug free instanced world game over a buggy open world game. Same goes for an open world game with nothing but filler landscape to a game like FFXIV with a high amount of world detail. Just depends on how they make the game. High quality bug free open world game with tons of detail and variation vs a game like FFXIV and id prefer the open world game, thing is, many open world game just staple together hubs with boring filler landscape with no purpose.


Exactly this.

I don't mind invisible walls if the other choice is buggy/exploitable terrain. Plus, it follows the pattern established by offline FF games (FFXI as well, i suppose).
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#20 Sep 14 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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clanofthekestrel wrote:
Being new to FF but an ancient vet when it comes to MMOs, I noticed this and assumed it was a design choice to support new/younger players from accidentally walking off cliffs, etc. and dying; sort of a "training wheels" type thing.


This seems likely, as even if you do manage to plummet off a relatively high cliff, you can only die from it if you're in the middle of combat.
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#21 Sep 14 2013 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Lol. Well, you like money don't you? Go spend 15 minutes researching the Market Board, find what sells, do a little economic work, and work on building your fortune. Guarantee you won't cap gil anytime soon.


Here is the problem with crafting, everyone can cap crafting very easily. There is nothing you can make that a hundred others can't. Crafting is only worth it if it's like FFXI where small numbers get it to cap or it takes a lot of effort, otherwise it's worthless.


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#22 Sep 14 2013 at 10:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Lol. Well, you like money don't you? Go spend 15 minutes researching the Market Board, find what sells, do a little economic work, and work on building your fortune. Guarantee you won't cap gil anytime soon.


Here is the problem with crafting, everyone can cap crafting very easily. There is nothing you can make that a hundred others can't. Crafting is only worth it if it's like FFXI where small numbers get it to cap or it takes a lot of effort, otherwise it's worthless.


Here's where I know you don't know what you are talking about. Crafting is easier to level in FFXIV, for sure, but it's also time consuming and pretty boring, hence many people (such as yourself) will not bother. Good news for me, I make more gil selling lower level 1-2k items than I do selling any big ticket stuff, and it's all because of a little effort and legwork. It's really not hard, at all.
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#23 Sep 14 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Lol. Well, you like money don't you? Go spend 15 minutes researching the Market Board, find what sells, do a little economic work, and work on building your fortune. Guarantee you won't cap gil anytime soon.


Here is the problem with crafting, everyone can cap crafting very easily. There is nothing you can make that a hundred others can't. Crafting is only worth it if it's like FFXI where small numbers get it to cap or it takes a lot of effort, otherwise it's worthless.


I disagree. I've made well over 500k gil just leveling armorer 1-50 with all the HQ gear I've made. It certainly helps that I've kept my mining right at that level also, so I gather my own mats for most of it, and I've also leveled most other crafts to at least 20 for support, but that just makes me self sufficient. It means I can craft my own gear (which saves me money), I can make HQ gear (which makes me gobs of money), and I can sell extra mats (which, depending on the mats also makes me gobs of money).

If you hit 50 and are just sitting around in town, you are really missing out on the vast majority of the game. Hunting for unspoiled nodes on your gathering classes, finding mats for 1 and 2 star recipes on lev. 50 crafting classes, heck even just killing mobs or fate grinding for soulbound items to turn into materia or for seals to buy up exp bonuses on other crafting/gathering classes, low level gear, high level gear, etc. Oh, then there's the vast amount of dungeons you can queue for while doing all this. AF quests, relic quests, etc... I'd say there's plenty to keep someone busy and not just sitting in town.
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#24 Sep 14 2013 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's not the size of the zone that matters, it's how you use it~

XI had a lot over over-sized and scantly used zones. Grauberg(S) springs to mind as a big offender here. Seratos in Rift also stands out as a zone way too big for its purpose. Could probably say a lot of similar for GW2 with the forced level capping, but whatever. Dude obviously hates XIV and is fishing for every reason to grumble about it.
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#25 Sep 14 2013 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
Seriha wrote:
It's not the size of the zone that matters, it's how you use it~

XI had a lot over over-sized and scantly used zones. Grauberg(S) springs to mind as a big offender here. Seratos in Rift also stands out as a zone way too big for its purpose. Could probably say a lot of similar for GW2 with the forced level capping, but whatever. Dude obviously hates XIV and is fishing for every reason to grumble about it.


On a forum where it really does nothing at all, to boot.

EDIT: There's a Ford enthusiast club here in Phoenix that I know of. I'm going to walk in there and ***** about Ford's all day long. That'll show them. Because I'm entitled to my opinion and free to impound it on others.

EDIT 2: And then I'll ***** about how everyone ignores me, trashes my opinion, and call them all white knights. And then I'll blame the community for being a failure.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 2:13pm by darexius2010

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 2:15pm by darexius2010
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#26 Sep 14 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
He's talking as if XI didn't have the same issue. You stood in Jeuno all day, then warped to Abyssea, only to eventually warp back to Jeuno. You stood in Jeuno all day waiting to go to sky, by teleporting to the crag and getting insta ported up there. There's really no difference, there may have been 10 extra footsteps taken to achieve the same thing. When CoP came out, you stood in Jeuno waiting for the proper shout...Much like XIV, you got out of those places by going to level and doing side quests, shocker!
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