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#52 Sep 15 2013 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Dude obviously hates XIV and is fishing for every reason to grumble about it.


On a forum where it really does nothing at all, to boot.

EDIT: There's a Ford enthusiast club here in Phoenix that I know of. I'm going to walk in there and ***** about Ford's all day long. That'll show them. Because I'm entitled to my opinion and free to impound it on others.

EDIT 2: And then I'll ***** about how everyone ignores me, trashes my opinion, and call them all white knights. And then I'll blame the community for being a failure.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 2:13pm by darexius2010

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 2:15pm by darexius2010

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#53 Sep 15 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
This isn't really about ffxi, this is abotu a newly launched mmo with major flaws that will push most of the people on the servers away within the first couple of months. ...there is nothing in this game that will keep players around long-term. In fact it seems designed in such a way to make most quit within a short amount of time.


I don't usually say things like this for obvious reasons...

Can you come back to these forums in 12 months when subscriptions are healthy and the first expansion is about to be launched just so that I can say, "I told you so!"?
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#54 Sep 15 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
kainsilv wrote:
preludes wrote:
This isn't really about ffxi, this is abotu a newly launched mmo with major flaws that will push most of the people on the servers away within the first couple of months. ...there is nothing in this game that will keep players around long-term. In fact it seems designed in such a way to make most quit within a short amount of time.


I don't usually say things like this for obvious reasons...

Can you come back to these forums in 12 months when subscriptions are healthy and the first expansion is about to be launched just so that I can say, "I told you so!"?


At that point he'll just twist his argument as to why subs in 12 months aren't as high when compared to launch, and why it's really not successful!
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#55 Sep 15 2013 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Here's an idea. Why not list quests that involve, say, East Ronf. Now compare to that to quests that involve Eastern La Noscea. Bet ya XIV uses the zone resources more before even considering FATEs, gathering, hunt logs, and general killing.


All you're saying is that games relying on quest/task-based leveling have more quests and tasks than games that use a different leveling system.
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#56 Sep 15 2013 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay

The crossed out dungeons weren't available at level 50 cap when the game was released. They were not added until the game went to 60 cap. (KRT's upper levels were available, but not the lower levels that you had to access by clicking the ??? to open the hidden stairwell.) Bos-tab and Toraimorai were also added then.
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#57 Sep 15 2013 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
Guys, don't jump all over Preludes for posting over here. He's only here because FFXIV is the game most people are talking about and playing right now, and he wants in on the action, even if he's not playing himself.

Quote:
so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay


I'm saying I'd rather shoot myself in the face than have to waste so much time running through expansive nothingness just to get from Point A to Point B.

One of the great design decisions Yoshi-P made for this game was to make the zones small but meaningful. **** yeah, the zones in FFXIV are smaller than the zones in FFXI... yay!!! I have no freaking clue why anyone would portray this as a bad thing. I mean, really? The zones of FFXIV have so much personality and character, yet they're all unified by similar artistic visions and design concepts. You actually become CONNECTED with the zones, because you don't just run through them once and never return. Plus, the mission quests artfully take you all over Eorzea, to every nook and cranny. It's so refreshing to adventure around, do FATES, and not have to worry like you're just wasting time running through nothing (Tahrongi Canyon, I'm looking at you, and you weren't even the biggest baron zone).

The name of this thread should be, "SE Corrects Commonly Bad MMO Norm of Giant, Useless Zones."

Go Yoshi-P!

EDIT: And in a kind of cool twist of fate, we can thank "PS3 limitations" for encouraging Yoshi-P & co. to incorporate this design decision into the fabric of FFXIV.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 2:41pm by Thayos
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#58 Sep 15 2013 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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It doesn't matter if XI had 40 zones at launch versus what ARR has at launch. The underlying process pro ARR people are saying is there is more landscape variety and content to do in ARR regions.
#59 Sep 15 2013 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay


Palborough Mines, Beadeux, Crawler's Nest, KRT, Ghelsba Outpost, Davoi, Eldieme, Giddeus, Oztroja, Garlaige, and Horutoto are dungeons.


Uhh, they are?

I think of something like Dynamis as a dungeon.
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#60 Sep 15 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with OP that the world is quite small, but I understand why it is so small. It will grow over time. I think that's all that really needed to be said here.

I definitely felt like I had more to explore on FFXI but I'm a CoP baby, and if you're an English speaker, you came at Zilart (earliest). It's just not a comparison that you can make right now, unless you want to ignore the restructuring of FFXIV and just look at the time since original launch, I guess...

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 6:55pm by LucasNox
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#61 Sep 15 2013 at 5:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Here's an idea. Why not list quests that involve, say, East Ronf. Now compare to that to quests that involve Eastern La Noscea. Bet ya XIV uses the zone resources more before even considering FATEs, gathering, hunt logs, and general killing.


All you're saying is that games relying on quest/task-based leveling have more quests and tasks than games that use a different leveling system.

I'm sorry, but zones are literally places you do **** in. If the only thing that makes it good is takes you 10+ minutes to run from one entrance to exit, then you've got a terrible sense of design philosophy. This is essentially what I'd said in the whole, "Size doesn't matter..." line. Otherwise, I'm reminded of the meme pic of how someone viewed MMOs then and now with the now stating to ignore a certain area because there's nothing of importance to be had there. The bigger a zone is, the more you risk dead space.
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#62 Sep 15 2013 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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LucasNox wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay


Palborough Mines, Beadeux, Crawler's Nest, KRT, Ghelsba Outpost, Davoi, Eldieme, Giddeus, Oztroja, Garlaige, and Horutoto are dungeons.


Uhh, they are?

I think of something like Dynamis as a dungeon.


SE makes the distinction in XI as "field area" versus "dungeon area" and the two are separated in the old world areas by the type of training books at the zone. Fields of Valor in field area, Grounds of Valor in dungeon areas.

Dynamis is probably more of a classic definition of a dungeon but even it's different now that the mobs respawn. Smiley: frown
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#63 Sep 15 2013 at 6:41 PM Rating: Default
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classic? i dont know of any scenario where something like dynamis would be considered a dungeon... maybe a raid but not a dungeon
#64 Sep 15 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
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Well, it seems more like a dungeon than Ghelsba Outpost and the other stuff he mentioned, I think.

I was thinking "MMO term" dungeon though. I didn't know about the Fields of Valor stuff.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 8:46pm by LucasNox
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#65 Sep 15 2013 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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LucasNox wrote:
Well, it seems more like a dungeon than Ghelsba Outpost and the other stuff he mentioned, I think.

I was thinking "MMO term" dungeon though. I didn't know about the Fields of Valor stuff.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 8:46pm by LucasNox


I'm thinking in MMO terms too. You're right that Ghelsba wouldn't be considered the dictionary definition of a dungeon, due in no small part to its being entirely not underground.

For examples of other "open world" dungeons in MMOs see: Zul Farrak (WoW), Realm of the Fae (Rift), Cademimu (SWTOR), Nochsana Training Camp (Aion).
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#66 Sep 15 2013 at 7:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
theyre still part of the open world.. yo no wyou can actually physically walk into them and explor ethem.. like in any decent mmo


You've just claimed that no MMO that uses instances is decent.

YEs thats exactly what Im saying. Though keep in mind that doesnt aply to having ANY instnaces.. I mean technically dynamis and limbus wee "nstances" right? but if 100% of your game is instanced based aside from a few hub cities and the outdoor areas outside those cities (I.E DC UNIVERS EONLINE FOR EXAMPLE) then yea it is not a decent game

Are you saying ARR is 100% instanced minus hub cities and areas directly outside those cities?
Pray tell what XI offered at non instanced or content over ARR at launch. I'm not sure on my time tables & comparsions or if I am leaving content out, correct me if I'm wrong.

ARR----------------------------------FFXI
Open world mobs---------------- Open world mobs
FATE-------------------------------- Garrison
Hamlet------------------------------ (besieged is only comparison but that came later)
Guildhest--------------------------- BCNM
Guildleves------------------------- ?
Dungeons------------------------- Dungeons
Story fights------------------------ Story fights
Grand company------------------ City fame
3 starter nations------------------ 3 starter nations
Artifact armor quest------------- Was artifact armor quest available at launch?
quests------------------------------- quests
crafting----------------------------- crafting
Materia----------------------------- Any gem socket feature?
crafting class quest------------- Any crafting class quest?
Free company & linkshell------ Linkshell
hunting logs------------------------ ?
9 battle jobs/8 classes---------- 6 battle jobs?
spiritbond--------------------------- weapon skillups
job/class quests-------------------job quests
NM via FATE----------------------NM
HNM via FATE-------------------HNM








#67 Sep 15 2013 at 7:36 PM Rating: Default
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sandpark wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
theyre still part of the open world.. yo no wyou can actually physically walk into them and explor ethem.. like in any decent mmo


You've just claimed that no MMO that uses instances is decent.

YEs thats exactly what Im saying. Though keep in mind that doesnt aply to having ANY instnaces.. I mean technically dynamis and limbus wee "nstances" right? but if 100% of your game is instanced based aside from a few hub cities and the outdoor areas outside those cities (I.E DC UNIVERS EONLINE FOR EXAMPLE) then yea it is not a decent game

Are you saying ARR is 100% instanced minus hub cities and areas directly outside those cities?
Pray tell what XI offered at non instanced or content over ARR at launch. I'm not sure on my time tables & comparsions or if I am leaving content out, correct me if I'm wrong.

ARR----------------------------------FFXI
Open world mobs---------------- Open world mobs
FATE-------------------------------- Garrison
Hamlet------------------------------ (besieged is only comparison but that came later)
Guildhest--------------------------- BCNM
Guildleves------------------------- ?
Dungeons------------------------- Dungeons
Story fights------------------------ Story fights
Grand company------------------ City fame
3 starter nations------------------ 3 starter nations
Artifact armor quest------------- Was artifact armor quest available at launch?
quests------------------------------- quests
crafting----------------------------- crafting
Materia----------------------------- Any gem socket feature?
crafting class quest------------- Any crafting class quest?
Free company & linkshell------ Linkshell
hunting logs------------------------ ?
9 battle jobs/8 classes---------- 6 battle jobs?
spiritbond--------------------------- weapon skillups
job/class quests-------------------job quests
NM via FATE----------------------NM
HNM via FATE-------------------HNM











what are you attempting to prove? i never said there was nothing to do in those areas outside the cuties... just si.ply tht its 80% instqnced.. i mean for example being able to walk up oo and freely explore sashasta or copperbell mines qnx mayne stume upon other explorers in the procss woulda been better thwn instanced play
#68 Sep 15 2013 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not saying I prefer instanced over open, well maybe I prefer instanced on my dungeons, especially if that dungeon is designed for a party on at least the first run through them. If the dungeons weren't capped and instanced, that would lead to people over leveling content and making it easier to advance on them plus allow the opportunity for griefing even if it stayed capped.

ARR made the choice to make it viable to solo or group to level. If they applied that same mindset to dungeons and most other endgame. The need to band together and face difficult encounters will lessen. CoP was a joy to some and a nightmare to others. But what made it special wasn't that someone could come and do all the hard stuff for you or grief you. Now as a certain content ages and the need for most players to get X content done diminishes, the new players will have a hard time getting their content done. Then maybe SE could allow stuff like that and I think Yoshi even said he would make dungeons and stuff more accessible as the content aged. But not right out of the gate man, and I'm glad it's not.

That in mind, I do hope SE creates some endgame or dungeon content for soloers and light parties as well, while he has full party and alliance content coming.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 10:12pm by sandpark
#69 Sep 15 2013 at 8:22 PM Rating: Default
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well as for overlvling content.. thats just it. who says dungeons had to be "content" or have an objective? i mean dungeons in ffxi served tha same purpose as the outdoor areas. an indoor area to expllore. i.e if they put indoor none instanced dungeons in ffxiv tht doesnt necessarily mean there has to be a boss fight at the end... maybe you just wanna poke around and see if theres anytreasure. so there would be no content to overlevel
#70 Sep 15 2013 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
well as for overlvling content.. thats just it. who says dungeons had to be "content" or have an objective? i mean dungeons in ffxi served tha same purpose as the outdoor areas. an indoor area to expllore. i.e if they put indoor none instanced dungeons in ffxiv tht doesnt necessarily mean there has to be a boss fight at the end... maybe you just wanna poke around and see if theres anytreasure. so there would be no content to overlevel

Ok, then what you mean by saying dungeon is just indoor areas or underground places to explore. I have no problem with that and there is nothing to prevent ARR from doing that.

But if there is an objective or bosses in the middle or end. That would fall in line with basically every FF ever created with XI being the exception to the rule to my knowledge.
#71 Sep 15 2013 at 8:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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It probably just seems small because of chocobos, and teleporters. If we were stuck on foot, like in 1.0, we'd probably be singing a different tune.
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#72 Sep 15 2013 at 8:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm just confused as to why people expect a massive game when it's not even a month released yet. It will grow.
#73 Sep 15 2013 at 10:34 PM Rating: Default
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Kawohni wrote:
I'm just confused as to why people expect a massive game when it's not even a month released yet. It will grow.




because in a certain other games where i listed all of its area that it had on day one only maybe 5-8 of them were incorrect so if one gamed was HUGE at release why cant every other game be? make sense?
#74 Sep 15 2013 at 10:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
so if one gamed was HUGE at release why cant every other game be? make sense?


Because all games are basically the same. Smiley: oyvey
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#75 Sep 15 2013 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure what the point of arguing about it is.

There's really no disputing that the world is small. You don't have to defend that fact and say it isn't. You can still like a game with a small world. It's going to get bigger anyway.
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#76 Sep 15 2013 at 11:53 PM Rating: Default
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
so if one gamed was HUGE at release why cant every other game be? make sense?


Because all games are basically the same. Smiley: oyvey



let most ppl tell it everything made by japan is the same lol. But anyway considering SE made an mmo before (FFXI) the correct way to make a new hit would be take everything everyone liked about the last and make it better and leave out the stuff ppl complained about/didnt like.... and im sure NO ONE in FFXI every complained "the maps are too big"
#77 Sep 16 2013 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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LucasNox wrote:
I'm not sure what the point of arguing about it is.

There's really no disputing that the world is small. You don't have to defend that fact and say it isn't. You can still like a game with a small world. It's going to get bigger anyway.


I guess it doesn't feel that small to me. It's not a pointless series of tubes like XIII-1 was. And it's not a wide open expanse of empty zones like XI was. It's the happy medium, where there is land you can see on your map that is inaccessible terrain because... not all land is stuff the average person can walk up or climb down. That's a genuine reflection of reality. There's a few places I'd really like to climb up so I can survey the whole terrain, but I recognize that unless they introduce a "rappelling" class (maybe ninja?) it'd be unfeasible to just jump up a friggin mountain.

Fun fact about XI - the draw distance is foreshortened on the PC version by the client because zones seem smaller when you see the distant walls right away. I like to flip on DrawDistance to bring the horizon up because my PC can handle it (PS2 clients could not load the horizons for the whole zone at once) but it does make the world seem smaller. XIV and ARR both have the horizons fully loaded upon zoning, which lends itself to that same illusion. When the city lights are visible on the horizon in most of the starting zones, then they really do feel smaller.

I'd venture to say that a run from North Gridania all the way down to the southernmost points of Thanalan, on foot, would take a considerable amount of time. Running along the coastline of La Noscea too would take forever and ever.

I do wish airships and ferries had a travel time associated with them. That's about the only design decision I disagree with. It actually does make the world feel smaller.

And the world will get bigger. The base game is always relatively small compared to the final results. Heckl, FFXI ran into issues with PS2 memory because it could only have 255 zones maximum and they ran out of numbers. They had to reprogram the entire base game to allow BCNMs to act more like proper instances so they wouldn't need 4 copies of each battlefield.

PS3 won't have that problem, since SE learned their lesson in XI and knew not to program a maximum number of allowed zones. (Maybe there's still a max, but something more like 1024. PS3 limitations!)

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#78 Sep 16 2013 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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and im sure NO ONE in FFXI every complained "the maps are too big"

This is where context becomes a fun thing. Ever see anyone complain about how long it took to get around? I'll give you a hint: Zone size matters. Even NPC positioning matters. Remember when you had to run to an NPC all the way on the other end of the city zone just to Outpost warp? I do. It added nothing but time sink. Teleport and Return also removed the need for WHM taxis or BLM warps/consumables. Things slowly improved in XI with things like NPC warps to Aht Urghan, Abyssea and Voidwatch warps, and now Adoulin teleporter things. But let's not pretend walking through Tahrongi from East Saru to Meriphitaud was riveting gameplay full of awesome eye candy to boot. No, I just remember a lot of needlessly uneven terrain you couldn't jump/climb up and needing **** near 5 minutes even on a chocobo.

And in thinking about it, running from South Shroud to Southern Thanalan would probably take just as long, maybe even longer.

Edited, Sep 16th 2013 10:15am by Seriha
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#79 Sep 16 2013 at 8:46 AM Rating: Default
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Seriha wrote:
Quote:
and im sure NO ONE in FFXI every complained "the maps are too big"

This is where context becomes a fun thing. Ever see anyone complain about how long it took to get around? I'll give you a hint: Zone size matters. Even NPC positioning matters. Remember when you had to run to an NPC all the way on the other end of the city zone just to Outpost warp? I do. It added nothing but time sink. Teleport and Return also removed the need for WHM taxis or BLM warps/consumables. Things slowly improved in XI with things like NPC warps to Aht Urghan, Abyssea and Voidwatch warps, and now Adoulin teleporter things. But let's not pretend walking through Tahrongi from East Saru to Meriphitaud was riveting gameplay full of awesome eye candy to boot. No, I just remember a lot of needlessly uneven terrain you couldn't jump/climb up and needing **** near 5 minutes even on a chocobo.

And in thinking about it, running from South Shroud to Southern Thanalan would probably take just as long, maybe even longer.

Edited, Sep 16th 2013 10:15am by Seriha



ppl complained about the maps being too big in 1.0 but not in XI so clearly SEs big maps in XI were doing something the ones in 1.0 were not
#80 Sep 16 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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My complaint about maps in XI, specifically the dungeons, is how each one is often broken up into multiple stupid rooms in the maze dungeons. For things with several levels like DF tower and Garliage, it makes sense, but some of the later instanced dungeons were very very stupid in their maps. (Looking at you, Arrapago Reef assaults and Runholtz silver mines.)
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#81preludes, Posted: Sep 16 2013 at 9:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It was just pointing out that this is one of the smallest mmo releases at launch, whether you think that is good or bad is upto you. Doesn't change the fact that it's still tiny compared to almost any mmo, especially newer ones that had a ton of effort put into their expansive zones.
#82 Sep 16 2013 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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Zone size in 1.0 was fine, it was the repetition that wasn't.

FFXI had copy/pasta in their zones too. Tahrongi and M. Mountains had the same zone assets. Same with Konschtat and La Theine. However, they still had some landmarks that set them apart. (Giant Bone bridge, for example.)
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#83 Sep 16 2013 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Half-assed expansions, you say?

Like a certain FFXI expansion that launched with 3 story quests that took 4 1/2 years to get any meaningful content aside from one battle event?
Like another certain FFXI expansion that players were asking in interviews when the storyline was going to end 1 1/2 years after it launched?
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#84preludes, Posted: Sep 16 2013 at 9:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) We put up with that on XI because there was little competition and we were long since addicted to the game by that point, since most XIV players use XI as an excuse for everything (XI never went f2p hence XIV will never go free to play!) maybe they will half *** XIV expansions too and do that horrible bare bones exp pack and dribble out content over the years yeah. As I said, many players seem ok with small worlds so small expansions should be ok here it seems.
#85 Sep 16 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
preludes wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Half-assed expansions, you say?

Like a certain FFXI expansion that launched with 3 story quests that took 4 1/2 years to get any meaningful content aside from one battle event?
Like another certain FFXI expansion that players were asking in interviews when the storyline was going to end 1 1/2 years after it launched?


We put up with that on XI because there was little competition and we were long since addicted to the game by that point, since most XIV players use XI as an excuse for everything (XI never went f2p hence XIV will never go free to play!) maybe they will half *** XIV expansions too and do that horrible bare bones exp pack and dribble out content over the years yeah. As I said, many players seem ok with small worlds so small expansions should be ok here it seems.


You're not even trying anymore, these arguments are terrible.
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#86 Sep 16 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Default
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Half-assed expansions, you say?

Like a certain FFXI expansion that launched with 3 story quests that took 4 1/2 years to get any meaningful content aside from one battle event?
Like another certain FFXI expansion that players were asking in interviews when the storyline was going to end 1 1/2 years after it launched?



ok i know the second one is WoTG but what expansion are you referring too with the first one?



and speaking of expansions. ppl claim FFXIV WILL get bigger (which is will as ALL good mmos do) however itll take a YEAR before hat finally happens.. i mean i cant name too many if ANY game that added new areas with just update patches.. new areas usually came in the form of expansions which in FFXIs case wasd once every 12 months.. that being said if XIV is to be the same we can expect to run around on the same small map until at least the end of next summer
#87 Sep 16 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
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so if one gamed was HUGE at release why cant every other game be? make sense?


Because all games are basically the same. Smiley: oyvey

let most ppl tell it everything made by japan is the same lol. But anyway considering SE made an mmo before (FFXI) the correct way to make a new hit would be take everything everyone liked about the last and make it better and leave out the stuff ppl complained about/didnt like.... and im sure NO ONE in FFXI every complained "the maps are too big"

The zones I have visited so far in FFXIV have been breathtakingly amazing. I see a degree of detail that I didn't see in any of the starting/RoZ zones in FFXI. If smaller zones are the price for the jaw dropping landscapes I'm seeing now, I think it's a fair price.

Also, in general, if SE had strictly limited itself to making an improved FFXI to become FFXIV, they limit their opportunity to try new things. If you refuse to change something because most players felt it was an aspect of the game that was good enough, you'll never be able to potentially try a design that's better.
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#88 Sep 16 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
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not true because they tried new things within FFXI just fine.. for example the vanilla version/RoZ then CoP... I would call going from that to CoP was definitely "trying new things" and it worked just fine.. and now look at the game with Abyssea.. the game is completely different now than what it was back in 08 or 09... yet another example of trying new things and apparently IT worked too... so they didnt seem restricted at all.

Also most of the time when SE tries something new it gets panned all over the pkce (final fantasy xiii) that alone would be enough incentive for me to say "stick with what works/leave good enough alone. because everytime i try something new ppl ***** an complain" lol
#89 Sep 16 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd think the argument to "remake XI" would have held more water if XI wasn't still receiving updates on its own. There's still some story they want to tell in XI, and they see no reason to stop telling it in its original format.

Remember, all Final Fantasy games start with a story and then build the game out from there. XIV is an MMO because, after they wrote the base storylines with the Twelve, the Archeons and the Garleans and such, they realized the story itself would best be told in the format of an MMO (as opposed to with a specific named individual and a static party of unique characters.) The problem was that their vision did not match their technology, and the result was the mess of a game that was 1.0. By the time Yoshi P began to salvage the game and fix the most horrendous issues, the storyline that was originally planned out was being released in missions and we got a glimpse of the underlying vision SE had for the game.

That doesn't mean that the games don't change as they develop them. That's why XIII Versus is now XV, for that matter. The story they wanted to tell in Versus turned out to be enough of a chunk that it could stand in its own world, and then someone said "Why does it have to be the same world as XIII at all? Why not Tokyo?" Boom, the first FF game to take place in our world instead of a fantasy world. (Just wish the main character wasn't a Sasuke clone.)

Edited, Sep 16th 2013 12:20pm by Catwho
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#90 Sep 16 2013 at 10:40 AM Rating: Default
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they dont have to "remake" FFXI Id be perfectly ok if they made a digital version playable on PS3 (or 4) without the need for backwards compatibility... that alone would be enough to make me happy
#91 Sep 16 2013 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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Agreed on the PS3 or PS4!
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#92 Sep 16 2013 at 10:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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i mean i cant name too many if ANY game that added new areas with just update patches..


Rift: Ember Isle
WoW: Isle of Quel'Danas, Timeless Isle, Isle of Giants

Next.
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#93 Sep 16 2013 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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i mean i cant name too many if ANY game that added new areas with just update patches..


Rift: Ember Isle
WoW: Isle of Quel'Danas, Timeless Isle, Isle of Giants

Next.

"Doesn't count cuz I sez sos! D:"
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#94 Sep 16 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Agreed on the PS3 or PS4!



oh and i should also add "allowing american express as a payment option to ffxi as well"
#95 Sep 16 2013 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
i mean i cant name too many if ANY game that added new areas with just update patches..


Rift: Ember Isle
WoW: Isle of Quel'Danas, Timeless Isle, Isle of Giants

Next.



ok then good now that i now know of MMOs that added new areas through patches and not full blown expansions indeed DO exist/has been done. i now no longer have anything to say on that subject (see unlike most i know how to admit when Ive lost)
#96 Sep 16 2013 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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It might not be a big open world, but its not really an issue when it's this fun. I only wish it was a bit more dangerous. Groups should be rewarded for venturing into areas too difficult to solo and carving a path. They could even be optional areas with different quests and rewards for those seeking a challenge. My biggest complaint overall is that the game feels too easy.
#97 Sep 16 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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moonfroh wrote:
It might not be a big open world, but its not really an issue when it's this fun. I only wish it was a bit more dangerous. Groups should be rewarded for venturing into areas too difficult to solo and carving a path. They could even be optional areas with different quests and rewards for those seeking a challenge. My biggest complaint overall is that the game feels too easy.


I think it'd be kind of cool to have an area that randomly populates itself. Kind of an MMO roguelike zone with dangerous mobs and random chests.

The original Nyzul Isle kind of did this, but I'd like to see it explored a bit further. Might be neat.
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#98 Sep 16 2013 at 8:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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while im not entirely sure if FXIV beats XI in quantity.. I can definitely say it beats it in Quality.. I would most definitely settle for less areas if the areas were leaps and bounds better visually like XIV is over XI. The detail they put into the zones alone is a good reason for there to be fewer zones than in XI. XI graphics take up less space memory wise as well right? If so, that would also explain why there are more zones. Just my 2 cents
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#99 Sep 17 2013 at 5:38 PM Rating: Excellent
preludes wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Half-assed expansions, you say?

Like a certain FFXI expansion that launched with 3 story quests that took 4 1/2 years to get any meaningful content aside from one battle event?
Like another certain FFXI expansion that players were asking in interviews when the storyline was going to end 1 1/2 years after it launched?


We put up with that on XI because there was little competition and we were long since addicted to the game by that point, since most XIV players use XI as an excuse for everything (XI never went f2p hence XIV will never go free to play!) maybe they will half *** XIV expansions too and do that horrible bare bones exp pack and dribble out content over the years yeah. As I said, many players seem ok with small worlds so small expansions should be ok here it seems.


I think you're mad because you don't see the writing on the wall, or just refuse to acknowledge it, in a bias to try to turn XIV players against their own game.

The world size is irrelevant. I don't care if Rift had a 'bigger' world at launch. I don't care if ANY game had a physically larger world at launch. Neither do most people out in the world except, for instance, people trying to make an argument against a game and start doing so by grabbing at any straws they can find and expounding them.

How it's taking you 1,907 posts as a three-starred Scholar to figure this out is beyond me. You are walking into a Ford club and telling everyone that Ford sucks and to buy a Chevy instead. Then you're getting mad when the club turns on you. How did you expect people would react?

Posting what you posted in a WoW forum as an argument against XIV would be one thing. Nobody there has a love for XIV. Posting against XIV in a XIV community? It simply blows my mind when people expect not to be lit up on the boards after doing so.


That'd be like me coming to your house and telling you your wife is f'ing ugly. You'd be ******* You're a liar if you say you wouldn't be.
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#100 Sep 17 2013 at 7:25 PM Rating: Default
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darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
preludes wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Half-assed expansions, you say?

Like a certain FFXI expansion that launched with 3 story quests that took 4 1/2 years to get any meaningful content aside from one battle event?
Like another certain FFXI expansion that players were asking in interviews when the storyline was going to end 1 1/2 years after it launched?


We put up with that on XI because there was little competition and we were long since addicted to the game by that point, since most XIV players use XI as an excuse for everything (XI never went f2p hence XIV will never go free to play!) maybe they will half *** XIV expansions too and do that horrible bare bones exp pack and dribble out content over the years yeah. As I said, many players seem ok with small worlds so small expansions should be ok here it seems.


I think you're mad because you don't see the writing on the wall, or just refuse to acknowledge it, in a bias to try to turn XIV players against their own game.

The world size is irrelevant. I don't care if Rift had a 'bigger' world at launch. I don't care if ANY game had a physically larger world at launch. Neither do most people out in the world except, for instance, people trying to make an argument against a game and start doing so by grabbing at any straws they can find and expounding them.

How it's taking you 1,907 posts as a three-starred Scholar to figure this out is beyond me. You are walking into a Ford club and telling everyone that Ford sucks and to buy a Chevy instead. Then you're getting mad when the club turns on you. How did you expect people would react?

Posting what you posted in a WoW forum as an argument against XIV would be one thing. Nobody there has a love for XIV. Posting against XIV in a XIV community? It simply blows my mind when people expect not to be lit up on the boards after doing so.


That'd be like me coming to your house and telling you your wife is f'ing ugly. You'd be ******* You're a liar if you say you wouldn't be.



no that chevy exmple or ugly wife example you gave is onyhow blind fanboys react. noing is perfect if you pointed out an inperfection in something i liked and it were true id admit it. but that doesnt mean ill jump ontowhatever lacks that imperfection. for example if you told me my wife was ugly and she acually was i wouldnt get mad at all infact id tell you "youre right she isnt the best looking woman ive ever seen or dated. i could name hundreds that look better. but i didnt marry her for her looks. if i wantd something that was just good to look at i can find that in a magazine or tv"
#101 Sep 17 2013 at 8:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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I feel sorry for your wife.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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