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#27 Sep 15 2013 at 3:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
svlyons wrote:
preludes wrote:
Loris wrote:
Then don't complain that there's nothing to do at 50 and you don't leave town. You've chosen to forgo the other jobs and activities. There's tons to do.


Such as?

Don't say crafting it's usless. Crafting was good in FFXI because it was hard to cap, not the case here.

Crafting.

I took two crafts to 100 in FFXI and also leveled Synergy. I am enjoying crafting in FFXIV. It's what Synergy was attempting to be. If you're avoiding crafting in FFXIV because it's "not hard enough", it's your loss. It's a lot of fun!

Imagine that. Having fun in a video game!




kind alike how mercing in FFXI also worked.. ppl would pay groups of ppl to kill pop NMs or quests to get items they wanted that were too hard to get (or their linkshell couldnt get).. that was another way to make money in FFXI.. in FFXIV there sno need for that because 99% of the content can be completed by any/everybody.. Just as Im sure that 99% of the population has Relic weapons in XIV.. Gimme something thats so hard/time consuming to get that you coan literally count the number of ppl who have them


Sweet, it looks like I've finally made it to a 1% club!
#28 Sep 15 2013 at 4:08 AM Rating: Decent
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You're all looking at it in the wrong way entirely.

Is it a small world map? Sure

Is it too small? No, it's absolutely perfect for the game and the amount of people playing it. This is one kind of game that really wouldnt get a use out of wide open deserted area's with no people visiting it for days.

There need to be populated area's all over.
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#29preludes, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 4:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So you all admit that this is an incredibly small MMO, you're just finding ways to defend that. FFXI at launch was far bigger than this is and it had half the development time. There is no excuse for such a claustrophobic "world".
#30 Sep 15 2013 at 4:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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All I can think of is the song, It's a small world after all.

But seriously what does size matter if the world is rich and vibrant? I've played somewhere between 60 to 80 hours of A Realm Reborn and I still have plenty to do. I even had a mostly capped character from 1.0 and I'm still running around with an enormous list of things I need to do.
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#31 Sep 15 2013 at 5:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
<blahblah>

And more hogwash.

Look, I won't say instancing is the best in all circumstances, but let's look to the alternative of what XI's "engaging" endgame provided. Going out to Sky/Sea or camping HNMs basically introduced you to competition, botting, MPK, and server drama. I know the trolls love to espouse that the drama makes a community stronger, but my take on it is it's divisive and basically hedges players further apart when fact, fiction, and over-dramatization comes into play. XI wasn't a PvP game, yet it was wrought with pseudo-PvP via limited resources and the steps players would take to get an edge. XIV technically isn't different here, and to be honest, I hope PvP never becomes a priority for the game. But I can at least understand some people like challenges beyond your basic enemy AIs. As long as PvP is never a "must do" like Aion, Rift, or GW2, we'll be okay.

But more specific to the hogwash, there are phases of the relic quests where you must actually leave town. You don't get GC seals just sitting in the city, either. Maybe you want to buy the stat reset item or put together a gear set for an achievement or secondary/tertiary job. Given time, I'm sure we'll see some kind of merit system for overflow EXP, too, which will have people out grinding FATEs, too. As well, I've seen you claim XI's crafting system was superior based on the premise of difficulty to level and rare materials. I can assure you people could PL crafts in XI, too, and without the restriction of leves for bonus EXP. No, XI craft leveling involved finding the cheapest synth and spamming the **** of out of it. As well, many items were "worthless" because of the insistence that HNM or event gear beat crafted counterparts. Maybe you'd have an exception here and there, but a small handful of items does not a healthy economy make. Nevermind the sh*tfest of "public" gathering and there being nothing to it other than carrying a bunch of tools and wearing field gear for an arguably negligible effect.

Anyway, the launch FFXI the NA crowd got was actually the RotZ expansion, too, which means we also didn't go through some of the early growing pains of XI. True launch endgame was getting to 50, beating Shadowlord for R5, and then camping Roc, Simurgh, Serket, Lumberjack, and then maybe playing with the Sin Skulls in Eldieme. That sounds incredibly boring to me, and that's with trying to distance myself from the actual knowledge of the game and those task difficulties. But in the interest of comparison, let's call completing XIV's main story to beating SL (though I'd argue more difficult). You could liken the Odin and Behemoth FATEs to the launch HNMs. Crafting is more robust. Gathering is fair. Leveling is handled more intelligently. There's a critical flaw in thinking forced grouping for EXP built community, and that's not everyone partied up with the intention of being your next best friend, even if you pushed aside the language barrier that happened in mixed-region parties. Both have seen and will see endgame groups arise and fall, so that's the other side of the community coin. You've played the "XI community is better than WoW community" card in other threads, too, when I'll say both are blessed with people who are awesome and people who suck. You're just running around with a pretty strong confirmation bias because the "suck" people are easier to "see" with spam shouts or rage quitting a dungeon. Frickin' **** if I didn't have some princess people in XI drop a group because we weren't getting X EXP an hour or didn't have some "tried and true" wiki party layout.

So, I'll just be curt. XIV isn't the problem despite its fixable flaws. It's you. Nothing you say here will make XI better. No twisting of interviews actually affirms your agenda. Confusing their plans for the mobile market with the console/PC market is just as inane. Tossing aside reviews you disagree with as if your opinion is any more legitimate is outright dumb. And oodles of wasted zone space still doesn't make a better game. Cling desperately to that "cycle" of launch retention all you want. Nobody's arguing that everyone who picks up the game will stick with it. What's rubbing people the wrong way is the claim everyone is going to quit because... well, you think they're you. Mercifully, they're not.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 7:32am by Seriha
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#32 Sep 15 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Central Thanaland feels almost 1.5x times bigger than Tahrongi Canyon.. everytime I open up that map, I cringe >.<. A lot of times, I need to take breaks when making my long treks, cause..they are long.

The world certainly does not feel small to me.
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#33 Sep 15 2013 at 7:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
So you all admit that this is an incredibly small MMO, you're just finding ways to defend that. FFXI at launch was far bigger than this is and it had half the development time. There is no excuse for such a claustrophobic "world".


Not sure where you got that info from, in actuality FFXI was in development for nearly 6 years, whereas XIV was completely redesigned (as in, the entire world was pretty much recreated in 3) and each and every zone in it has far MORE to do. They might be smaller, but they are also much fuller. There aren't giant mazes where you have to just run or choco for 5+ minutes seeing absolutely nothing but the occasional mob. To me, that's a very good thing.

preludes wrote:

I guess some people like playing in a shoe box. Me? I'd prefer ot have a well crafted large world I can explore (and this is what almost every other mmo offers), this isn't about people being around me all the time, who really cares about that? I want a big open world with lots of out of the way places to explore.


Have you bothered to actually explore the whole word? There are tons and tons of out of the way places to explore that are some of the most beautiful I've seen in any mmo. The zones might be smaller, but there are still a myriad of exceptional touches that make them unique, and make discovery a truly excellent experience.

preludes wrote:

Every day that passes crafting becomes less and less useful

Uh, actually it's the exact opposite. Every day that passes more people are reaching higher levels, requiring high level gear, requiring triple melds, requiring some of those super rare materials from unspoiled nodes, etc. I've been asked by my FC almost daily to make items for players on my armorer. If you think it's becoming less and less useful, you're doin it wrong.

preludes wrote:
Are you 50? you literally sit in town and never ever have to move out of it at any time for any reason in FFXIV. At least in FFXI you had to move out of town and move to places to do your endgame content. This is the difference between open world content driven game and a game that will put all it's endgame into a dungeon system. Goto sky zones, goto sea zones, goto abyssea zones or maybe do some dungeon content. XIV? Just click that dungeon finder button.


And once again, you are wrong. If you are only sitting in town at 50, you are missing 95% of the game content, which I already explained in a previous post which you ignored. But hey, that's fine. Keep sitting in town and complaining about how boring it is. I'll be out in the world exploring, leveling multiple jobs, working on relics and AF, gathering. Having fun. You know, what the game was made for.
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#34 Sep 15 2013 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
preludes wrote:
Are you 50? you literally sit in town and never ever have to move out of it at any time for any reason in FFXIV. At least in FFXI you had to move out of town and move to places to do your endgame content. This is the difference between open world content driven game and a game that will put all it's endgame into a dungeon system. Goto sky zones, goto sea zones, goto abyssea zones or maybe do some dungeon content. XIV? Just click that dungeon finder button.


Been 50 since 1.0, and have not sat around Ul'dah, are you 50 yet? Listen, if you enjoy wasting even more time simply walking around, more power to you. Fact is, you still stood in Jeuno like a knob until your event started, until you saw your approriate shout, etc. The zones were huge to waste your time, there's some appreciation to them, but overall time wasters. He for some reason thinks we hate XI, even though I'm sure most of us played it for years. Is it that hard to accept some of us have lost interest in it and have moved on to something else?

If you still enjoy XI, then keep playing it, just realize most of your arguments lately make NO sense. If you're goal is to troll, then well played sir, well played.
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#35preludes, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 8:08 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Have fun exploring the small world that you already saw all of while leveling, leveling jobs you don't have any interest in and grinding dungeons for gear that otehrs have already capped out on 2 weeks in. This game is small and shallow, the more time that passes the more everyone will see that, new mmo sheen wears fast.
#36preludes, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 8:13 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This isn't really about ffxi, this is abotu a newly launched mmo with major flaws that will push most of the people on the servers away within the first couple of months. I don't only play FFXI I've played almost every MMO that has launched over the last 4-5 years, there is nothing in this game that will keep players around long-term. In fact it seems designed in such a way to make most quit within a short amount of time.
#37 Sep 15 2013 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm going to say this in giant font because preludes is spreading around factually incorrect information. (Hey, that's my schtick!)

FFXI AT LAUNCH WAS SMALLER THAN FFXIV AT LAUNCH IN JAPAN BECAUSE IT HAD ONLY THE CITY ZONES, THE FIELD AREAS TO JEUNO, THE BEASTMAN DUNGEONS, AND QUFIM AVAILABLE. BEAUCEDINE AND XARCABARD WERE ADDED IN PATCHES.

Delkfutt's Tower was the final dungeon available. Even the friggin deep parts of KRT were not added until Rise of the Zilart.

The NA speakers got a vastly expanded world, probably double in size, because we didn't get access to the game until a year after it launched when the first expansion came out.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 10:44am by Catwho
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#38 Sep 15 2013 at 9:06 AM Rating: Default
preludes wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
preludes wrote:
Are you 50? you literally sit in town and never ever have to move out of it at any time for any reason in FFXIV. At least in FFXI you had to move out of town and move to places to do your endgame content. This is the difference between open world content driven game and a game that will put all it's endgame into a dungeon system. Goto sky zones, goto sea zones, goto abyssea zones or maybe do some dungeon content. XIV? Just click that dungeon finder button.


Been 50 since 1.0, and have not sat around Ul'dah, are you 50 yet? Listen, if you enjoy wasting even more time simply walking around, more power to you. Fact is, you still stood in Jeuno like a knob until your event started, until you saw your approriate shout, etc. The zones were huge to waste your time, there's some appreciation to them, but overall time wasters. He for some reason thinks we hate XI, even though I'm sure most of us played it for years. Is it that hard to accept some of us have lost interest in it and have moved on to something else?

If you still enjoy XI, then keep playing it, just realize most of your arguments lately make NO sense. If you're goal is to troll, then well played sir, well played.


This isn't really about ffxi, this is abotu a newly launched mmo with major flaws that will push most of the people on the servers away within the first couple of months. I don't only play FFXI I've played almost every MMO that has launched over the last 4-5 years, there is nothing in this game that will keep players around long-term. In fact it seems designed in such a way to make most quit within a short amount of time.


I do not believe it was an intentional design for that reason but for a couple of others:

1. The game "feels" and plays like a console RPG more than a true MMO. Not surprisingly, since it is a multi platform game. They had to design everything to the lowest common denominator and that explains the simple combat mechanics, world design, etc. There are many aspects of what would be considered "standard" in Tier 1 MMO that FFXIV cannot support fully due to those constraints.

2. The game feels like it was designed for younger/first time players. It could be coincidence that many of things mentioned in 1 above also happen to support this theory but many of the artistic choices also have a very "kiddie" look and feel to them. In the long term this will be a smart move as the burn out rate for MMOs is so steep that focusing on younger players provides a semi-permanent target market, aka "That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older and they stay the same age."


#39 Sep 15 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Default
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Catwho wrote:
I'm going to say this in giant font because preludes is spreading around factually incorrect information. (Hey, that's my schtick!)

FFXI AT LAUNCH WAS SMALLER THAN FFXIV AT LAUNCH IN JAPAN BECAUSE IT HAD ONLY THE CITY ZONES, THE FIELD AREAS TO JEUNO, THE BEASTMAN DUNGEONS, AND QUFIM AVAILABLE. BEAUCEDINE AND XARCABARD WERE ADDED IN PATCHES.

Delkfutt's Tower was the final dungeon available. Even the friggin deep parts of KRT were not added until Rise of the Zilart.

The NA speakers got a vastly expanded world, probably double in size, because we didn't get access to the game until a year after it launched when the first expansion came out.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 10:44am by Catwho



seriously catwho?


so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay

Im sure if tyou just cut that list in HALF it would STILL be bigger than FFXIV
#40 Sep 15 2013 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm loving the game but I will admit the world is very small. But guess what, that's what patches and expansions are for. Doesn't worry me.
#41 Sep 15 2013 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay


Palborough Mines, Beadeux, Crawler's Nest, KRT, Ghelsba Outpost, Davoi, Eldieme, Giddeus, Oztroja, Garlaige, and Horutoto are dungeons.
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#42 Sep 15 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Here's an idea. Why not list quests that involve, say, East Ronf. Now compare to that to quests that involve Eastern La Noscea. Bet ya XIV uses the zone resources more before even considering FATEs, gathering, hunt logs, and general killing.
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#43 Sep 15 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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Miles of desolation with no pre-crafted rides or experiences, the people have to make their own fun. This is a bit extreme and a bit false describing XI but just tossing it out there.



Tightly condensed pre-crafted rides or experiences, you don't have to create your own fun. This is a bit extreme and a bit false describing XIV but just tossing it out there.



I've had fun in both. Smiley: grin

Oh by the way, who is to say future lands can't have larger regions, who is to say crafting will always be easy and there will be no specialization implemented at one point or a cap to how many crafts you can learn. Everything can change, reality changes, what you see now doesn't mean that's how it will always be.



Edited, Sep 15th 2013 12:09pm by sandpark
#44DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 10:23 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) theyre still part of the open world.. yo no wyou can actually physically walk into them and explor ethem.. like in any decent mmo
#45DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 10:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) "Oh by the way, who is to say future lands can't have larger regions, who is to say crafting will always be easy and there will be no specialization implemented at one point or a cap to how many crafts you can learn. Everything can change, reality changes, what you see now doesn't mean that's how it will always be."
#46 Sep 15 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Except there was really nothing to find. Yes, there are exceptions, but by and large the zones were empty. What you saw at the zone line was pretty much what you saw further in.
#47 Sep 15 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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theyre still part of the open world.. yo no wyou can actually physically walk into them and explor ethem.. like in any decent mmo


You've just claimed that no MMO that uses instances is decent.
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#48 Sep 15 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"Oh by the way, who is to say future lands can't have larger regions, who is to say crafting will always be easy and there will be no specialization implemented at one point or a cap to how many crafts you can learn. Everything can change, reality changes, what you see now doesn't mean that's how it will always be."

MMos usually have additions... but they dont change dramatically.. youre example woud be considered dramatic change... what MMOs have done that and wee till the same game.

As for your other two videos.. i prefer sandbox over amusement park anyday

Merit points didn't exist until later, I consider that a dramatic change and up until that point and a little beyond that XI remained the same game. Who would have ever thought a Final Fantasy game would have large scale PvP? Yet, when it get's added here it will be optional and the core game will remain intact should you choose to ignore PvP. Who would have ever thought the worst rated mmo in history would re-release at a current score of 86 on metacritic, and receive mostly praise though it didn't do anything out of the normal mmo affair.

Xi went from extreme hardcore consume your life to progress, to pretty **** casual over it's ten year span. What if this game did the reverse? Went from pretty **** casual to some of the meatiest endgame ever or at least meatier than XI. XI mantra was the journey and leveling experience. ARR's mantra is not particularly focused on the journey. Yoshi even stated that the real test are going to come in future expansions at endgame. Think of the hardest mmo fight you ever engaged in, do you think a duty finder would put together the optimal party for you if party cohesion required **** near perfection?

The last Bruce Lee video was posted to point out not to look and think how about you feel. But to just feel how you feel. If you feel better playing another game versus this one then do it. I don't like certain things, but trying to control or change something out of my control is only going to lead to resentment and unhappiness. We can't control **** except what we do or don't put up with and how we feel about stuff. Incoming cheesy slogan: What you permit, you promote.
#49 Sep 15 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
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Not sure where you got that info from, in actuality FFXI was in development for nearly 6 years, whereas XIV was completely redesigned (as in, the entire world was pretty much recreated in 3) and each and every zone in it has far MORE to do. They might be smaller, but they are also much fuller. There aren't giant mazes where you have to just run or choco for 5+ minutes seeing absolutely nothing but the occasional mob. To me, that's a very good thing.


Project rapture was announced in early 2005 9 years, with the massive amount of manpower this game was given that should of been enough. As I said, most of the rest of the things you mentioned are defending a small shoebox.


And as I said which you again ignored, they completely redesigned every single zone in three years. It wasn't just a new coat of paint or something, it was a complete overhaul of almost every single zone. They did this in less than 3 years. FFXI was in production for 6 years before it was launched.

preludes wrote:
Quote:
Have you bothered to actually explore the whole word? There are tons and tons of out of the way places to explore that are some of the most beautiful I've seen in any mmo. The zones might be smaller, but there are still a myriad of exceptional touches that make them unique, and make discovery a truly excellent experience.


Of course there are but it's still much smaller than almost any other mmo, it's a cramped quickly made world. If that's enough for you then great but it's not going to be for many.


It's not cramped at all. There are still tons of open areas, such as Sagoli Desert, most of Coerthas and Mhor Dona, Eastern La Noscea, etc. It's just that instead of yalms and yalms of absolutely nothing, they made the (smart) decision to actually reduce the expanses of nothingness and increase the amount of landmarks, unique scenery, etc. Again, that was an incredibly smart decision. If you want a giant open world full of nothing to explore, go play ffxi. The world is still there, and 95% of it is just as lacking of any content as it was 10 years ago.

preludes wrote:
Quote:
Uh, actually it's the exact opposite. Every day that passes more people are reaching higher levels, requiring high level gear, requiring triple melds, requiring some of those super rare materials from unspoiled nodes, etc. I've been asked by my FC almost daily to make items for players on my armorer. If you think it's becoming less and less useful, you're doin it wrong.


I'm not wrong because I've experienced easy crafting cap mmos many times before, as more time passes more and more people get it capped crafters become worthless. Every day that passes your capped crafts mean less, you'll see this soon enough.


Actually, you ARE wrong. I've played easy crafting cap games too. Like lotro, like WoW, like pretty much every other mainstream MMO that wasn't ffxi. Crafting was never pointless or worthless in any of them. It was actually incredibly useful in most of them. And the longer the game was out, the more useful it became because of the added recipes and bonuses. Your speculation here is incredibly false.

preludes wrote:
Quote:
And once again, you are wrong. If you are only sitting in town at 50, you are missing 95% of the game content, which I already explained in a previous post which you ignored. But hey, that's fine. Keep sitting in town and complaining about how boring it is. I'll be out in the world exploring, leveling multiple jobs, working on relics and AF, gathering. Having fun. You know, what the game was made for.


Have fun exploring the small world that you already saw all of while leveling, leveling jobs you don't have any interest in and grinding dungeons for gear that otehrs have already capped out on 2 weeks in. This game is small and shallow, the more time that passes the more everyone will see that, new mmo sheen wears fast.

Small world, incredibly fast leveling, worthless crafting and boring endgame that is built almost fully around dungeon grinding. Maybe they will add dailies soon as some open world content...?


I will have fun doing all of this. Because to me, it IS fun. I love leveling other jobs, because I actually enjoy them. I like grinding dungeons because the dungeons are a ton of fun and some are relatively challenging. The game is not shallow in the least, and your comments lead me to believe that you just don't have any clue what you are talking about. This game has more content on launch than any other mmo I've played by leaps and bounds. It puts Vanilla WoW to shame.

If you really had any clue about what you were talking about, you'd know that after your first class, leveling is not overly fast, you'd also know that crafting is not worthless. I get it, you don't like instanced content. Good for you. Go play a game that doesn't have it and quit complaining about stuff that you really don't seem to have any grasp on other than whining about how you don't like it and making assumptions that others won't either.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 12:53pm by BartelX
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#50 Sep 15 2013 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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I have a question on what peoples perception of large zones are.

Does it have to be seamless?

Or would four zones interconnected by a four way zone line in the center be considered a large zone to you?

Say like we have a huge floating continent, made up of four interconnected zones(speaking geographically in terms of size of current ARR zones), but all giving the illusion of a big zone and classified as one zone "The Floating Continent".
#51DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Sep 15 2013 at 11:35 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) YEs thats exactly what Im saying. Though keep in mind that doesnt aply to having ANY instnaces.. I mean technically dynamis and limbus wee "nstances" right? but if 100% of your game is instanced based aside from a few hub cities and the outdoor areas outside those cities (I.E DC UNIVERS EONLINE FOR EXAMPLE) then yea it is not a decent game
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