Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Tanks Trolling the DFFollow

#52 Sep 17 2013 at 2:56 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
630 posts
nonameoflevi wrote:
At this point its a three way split. IF tank doens't hold hate bosses kill everyone. IF the healer doesn't heal the tank and everyone well the boss kills everyone. IF the DD doesn't kill adds fast enough THEY kill everyone.


How often do you hear about bad DD in shout? Tanks are to blame the majority of the time, followed by healers. Fact of the matter is everything besides bosses a healer and I could duo without issue (besides it taking really long).

In addition if tanks aren't keeping hate the healers will have to heal more, the DD is getting hit more and can't focus on dps, and everything begins to break down.

Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
very rarely is the DD blamed for a sh*tty party.


Never underestimate an asshat looking for someone to blame. No one is safe from their wrathful gaze.


I never underestimated, if someone is a douche the class you choose won't protect you from being attacked. Being good is the best defense against elitist @#%^s.

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 4:57pm by burtonsnow

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 4:58pm by burtonsnow
#53 Sep 17 2013 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,081 posts
Strangerous wrote:
I really wish they made tanking and healing in these games more...entertaining.


I think healing in this particular game is incredibly entertaining. As for tanking, for the life of me I cannot understand how tanking is not immensely more entertaining that playing as a DD. As a tank you are essentially playing the role of a DD but while tanking. I really fail to see your logic.


As for DF improvements. I wish you could click commence no matter what you are doing and no matter what class you currently are. For example if I que as SCH and I am out leveling another class, locked up with a mob, doing some crafting etc...I want to be able to click commence without having to change back to the class I qued in. Sometimes I think this is part of the issue on why people miss their ques. Also, if you have a party member leave in the middle of a dungeon you are basically screwed because pretty much no one selects the option "join party already in progress".
____________________________


#54 Sep 17 2013 at 4:52 PM Rating: Good
*
220 posts
People like me still do look for parties in progress, it's actually a fast way to get tombs in the end game dungeons, especially since they took out speed runs.
#55 Sep 17 2013 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
***
1,079 posts
I recently left a party because the DD wouldn't cooperate with me, making my job, and the healer's job, a lot tougher. What's worse is that I was being blamed for the issues. DD need to learn to follow the tank's direction. We need to concentrate fire so hate control stays a non-issue.
____________________________
FFXIV
Articus Vladmir
PLD WHM BRD DRG BLM
#56 Sep 17 2013 at 11:46 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
***
1,556 posts
Llester wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Llester wrote:


also, it's easier to play a DPS. avoid and do a rotation. its not rocket science.


I can say the exact same thing about tanking. Now if you choose to do more than other people, that's why you might not agree. Spamming abilities and attempting to migrate hate is no more difficult than avoiding AoE and killing targets including adds. It's not rocket science for any job in this game. We sure don't need people to scare off potential tanks either.


stop being purposefully obtuse.

i'm already turned off by this discussion, so i'll be brief. its not the buttons you push. its the role you play. as a tank you are the focus of everything that is happening. it is more "pressure" so to speak. if you don't understand this, and i suspect that you don't or don't want to, then there's nothing else to be said.

and scaring off potential tanks? that's ridiculous.


There is no 'pressure' playing as a tank. I played paladin and ninja in FFXI, druid/warrior/paladin/DK in WoW, and so many other MMORPGs that have the classic tank role.

It is NOT a stressful role. The only thing that makes it stressful is the player using the role. Coincidentally, those who feel this pressure when playing a tank would probably be better off as DPS or healers.

As a tank, your #1 duty is to hold the attention of mob/mobs. This boils down to a rotation for packs of mobs (3+) and single target/2 mobs. It really is that simple. You can talk about the alleged 'complexity' in blowing cooldowns at the right time, knowing when to pick up adds, etc...but the same can be said for every single role.

In fact, the most 'stressful' (read: enjoyable) job for me in 11 was not a tanking role but a RDM. Between keeping haste/refresh cycles going, healing, managing MP through convert, having 40 sets of gear for each specific spell you have to use, debuffing targets and keeping them up, etc. All of this WHILE you have the ability to CC any other mobs in the way (read: dynamis). Hard? No. Requires some multitasking abilities? Most certainly.
#57 Sep 18 2013 at 5:16 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
787 posts
Stilivan wrote:
I recently left a party because the DD wouldn't cooperate with me, making my job, and the healer's job, a lot tougher. What's worse is that I was being blamed for the issues. DD need to learn to follow the tank's direction. We need to concentrate fire so hate control stays a non-issue.


We experienced that the other evening when we visited Titan HM the other evening. One of the WHMs was severely under-geared and refused to use any form of AoE healing which made it a very rough event. Throughout the event all they did was spam Cure-1 and cast Cure-2 when it proced and wouldn't take any of the group's advice. Eventually that WHM raged quit after we asked if he watched the video or read up on the fight before attempting it.
#58 Sep 18 2013 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
4,775 posts
rubina wrote:


We experienced that the other evening when we visited Titan HM the other evening. One of the WHMs was severely under-geared and refused to use any form of AoE healing which made it a very rough event. Throughout the event all they did was spam Cure-1 and cast Cure-2 when it proced and wouldn't take any of the group's advice. Eventually that WHM raged quit after we asked if he watched the video or read up on the fight before attempting it.


We had a tank last night that was horribly geared and a total noob on the Titan fight. I usually don't check people in a party, but this tank was being hit so hard, my WHM buddy was spamming heals and still losing ground. If that wasn't bad enough, I had my buddy check the log for defensive buffs. All he found was WS's for dmg, not one def buff. Ironically, he joked I had used Foresight on DRG. lol So I go and check him and half his gear is lv23. I believe this was a lv36 cap if not mistaken. If the healer become encased in stone, this PLD couldn't last long enough to break him out. We had to eventually throw in the towel because the gear of the tank was so horrendous. The morale of the story is any job can suck.
#59 Dec 27 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Default
1 post
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

Frankly, what a tank does with their DF is their own **** business. I don't see the reason to hate on people because they're not living up to other people's expectations. My retort isn't directed at you, but all people who think they're entitled to tanks that must adhere to their every whim. The real problem with the system isn't the tanks, but the sheer number of people on DPS classes. I'm playing a DPS class first myself, but I fully expect to wait long times. I don't cry about it because after I wait a hour the tank withdrawals on me. That kind of mentality reeks of the me, me, me entitlement.


I too play a DD and I also expect to wait a while, even hours if I am very unlucky.
But those **** bastards, who first press "join" in the Duty Finder so the Duty pops open for everyone and then hit "withdrawl" as soon as they can... THOSE I HATE!
THIS has nothing to do with "I want the tank to do my bidding" but plain courtesy.
If you hit "join" then do not withdraw because you got an instant queue... And especially DO NOT DO THIS 30 TIMES IN A ROW!
By now I wait 10seconds to change from my miner or botanist back to my monk when the queue opens because I don't want to loose my GP to a <insert swear words here> troll.
It is interesting to see though, that only tanks seem to do this (you can see, that there are 24slots of DDs, 8 Slots of healers and 7 slots of tanks all filled up and then the stupid Join/withdraw game beginns)

I would love to see a time ban on those bastards.
If you withdraw from your second instant queue within 30min than you can't join any queue for the next hour or so... That would be nice.
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
#60 Dec 27 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
4,506 posts
I've not seen tanks troll the duty finder at all. Granted i play either Bard or Paladin myself, but still. Even when i'm on Bard it's always DPS or Healers pulling this **** :/

So who ever said Healers and DPS dont do this, Case-in-point:

Healer Trolling

DPS Trolling 1

DPS Trolling 2

Everyone is bad. Period. Stop blaming tanks, the majority of us arent like this.
____________________________
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
#61 Jan 13 2014 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
283 posts
KojiroSoma wrote:
I've not seen tanks troll the duty finder at all. Granted i play either Bard or Paladin myself, but still. Even when i'm on Bard it's always DPS or Healers pulling this sh*t :/

So who ever said Healers and DPS dont do this, Case-in-point:

Healer Trolling

DPS Trolling 1

DPS Trolling 2

Everyone is bad. Period. Stop blaming tanks, the majority of us arent like this.


This is a tank problem. The reason you have so many people withdrawing from DF mostly CT is tanks fishing for 3/4 boss runs to get fast tombs. Easy way to fix this is add the same lockout to DF withdraws that they added to rage quits! BTW I am not just making this up. talk to a few tanks and I am sure you will get a few to tell you they do it. I have watched my brother do it many times. put a 30 min lockout on all DF withdraws and you will fix this problem.
#62 Jan 13 2014 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Keeper of the Shroud
*****
13,485 posts
I'm in favor of a DF lockout timer. I'll even be generous here and go with the first time you withdraw from DF, nothing happens. The second time you do it in a thirty minute window, you get locked out for an hour. That way people that got up to go the bathroom, or had to answer the phone or something like that don't get locked out. But it will end this **** DF hopping that's going on now. I usually have five to ten withdraws every time I try to join a CT run and it's getting **** annoying.
#63 Jan 13 2014 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
327 posts
While Turin's idea sounds good that would likely only lead to more problems. You would get the people who would just stand at the entrance of the dungeon and refuse to do anything in hopes of being Vote Kicked. To the best of my knowledge a VK doesn't give you a penalty so basically it would just end up wasting the rest of the group's time if they implemented a punishment for DF Withdrawls.
____________________________
Oxide Vanwen

Server: Ultros

Free Company: Terra Sails

The Paragon of White Mage Excellence From Final Fantasies XI - XIV
#64 Jan 13 2014 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
Keeper of the Shroud
*****
13,485 posts
Add a penalty to being vote kicked as well. Also add a stiff penalty for abusing vote kicking to curb people being ******
#65 Jan 13 2014 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
****
5,745 posts
Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#66 Jan 13 2014 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Jack of All Trades
******
29,611 posts
Yeah, 3 times in the past week I've had people bail on roulettes before the DUTY COMMENCED even appeared, one of them even explicitly saying "Halatali? Nope!" before he exited. All three of these people were tanks. Princesses much, guys?

I'm hoping that once they implement the method for a party to agree to leave a dungeon without penalty, they will greatly up the penalty for people that do this. IMO it should force you to give up your roulette bonus for the day.

Quote:
Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.


Tanks generally have the most responsibility in this game in most of its group content though, because they generally are the pullers. In almost any dungeon/raid setting, these guys set the pace. Not everyone wants that responsibility.

Remember all the people that did not want to be BRDs in XI (whether it's during the traditional leveling process, or even during endgame activities like Delve) simply because it would mean they would have to pull? Yeah.
#67 Jan 13 2014 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
****
4,145 posts
Fynlar wrote:
Yeah, 3 times in the past week I've had people bail on roulettes before the DUTY COMMENCED even appeared, one of them even explicitly saying "Halatali? Nope!" before he exited. All three of these people were tanks. Princesses much, guys?

I guess they don't understand the idea of random. Don't know how it goes these days, but when I used to play ARAM in LoL it was the same thing. All Random All Mid. You'd think the title makes it pretty clear what you're getting yourself into, but people would say about the same thing... "Not this champ" and they'd dodge.

The only reason tanks are more likely to dodge is that it's easier for them to get a group. Call them princess if you like, but there is no doubt in my mind that everyone would do the same thing if they didn't have the consequence of a long wait until the next dungeon queue pop.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#68 Jan 13 2014 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
****
5,745 posts
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.

Tanks generally have the most responsibility in this game in most of its group content though, because they generally are the pullers. In almost any dungeon/raid setting, these guys set the pace. Not everyone wants that responsibility.

Not everyone has to be a tank. Just 1 in 4 people. That's only 25%.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#69 Jan 13 2014 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
*
181 posts
svlyons wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.

Tanks generally have the most responsibility in this game in most of its group content though, because they generally are the pullers. In almost any dungeon/raid setting, these guys set the pace. Not everyone wants that responsibility.

Not everyone has to be a tank. Just 1 in 4 people. That's only 25%.


Yeah but there is proly no where near that many tanks in the population.
#70 Jan 13 2014 at 10:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Needs More Smut
******
21,262 posts
Being a good tank takes a certain mindset. Part of it is wanting to be the center of attention, but also some people just enjoy or prefer the leadership role. Much like some people (like myself) prefer the healer or support roles.

Tanking in this game isn't terribly difficult, but I don't enjoy it. I don't like getting hit. ****, half the time if I'm in a solo quest I send out my chocobo to do the heavy hitting and just nuke lightly from afar as a conjurer. Smiley: laugh
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#71 Jan 13 2014 at 11:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Revolving Door Inspector
Avatar
*****
12,735 posts
Catwho wrote:
There was a saying in XI...

- When you're a great red mage or white mage, you are invisible. All credit and glory go to the DDs after taking down a successful boss or hitting a long chain or high exp/hour. You do you job right and nobody even knows you're there.

- When you are a bad red mage or white mage, you are the spotlight of the party and everyone hates you. Because they're dead.

Healing in an MMO, and all support jobs really, is an act of selflessness. You're playing the job because you enjoy helping others perform to the best of their ability. (Or you're like me and you freak out when you can't cure yourself, let alone anyone else.)

I think tanking is a lot more work than healing, and that's why the healers are now in the same boat as some of the DPS in terms of wait times. People decided to level a healer to shortcut the dungeon wait times, because it takes a specific mind set to be a good tank and fewer people have that mind set.



This post. A thousand times, this post.

Heck, tanking is just as invisible. In XI, there was a point you couldn't even XP/merit. "Just go campaign, but show up to lose all that XP in our endgame so we can make bigger numbers fly by."

People only notice you when they hate you.
____________________________
FFXI: Exodus @ San d'Oria since November 19, 2003, Siren Server
FFXIV: Turk Kalahai @ Gridania, Balmung Server (RPC Link)
Rift: Kalahai @ Sanctum, Faeblight Server
#72 Jan 14 2014 at 1:14 AM Rating: Good
****
5,745 posts
domice wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.

Tanks generally have the most responsibility in this game in most of its group content though, because they generally are the pullers. In almost any dungeon/raid setting, these guys set the pace. Not everyone wants that responsibility.

Not everyone has to be a tank. Just 1 in 4 people. That's only 25%.

Yeah but there is proly no where near that many tanks in the population.

And that's the problem. Adding penalties for withdrawing from groups being formed doesn't address the underlying issue: tanks can get away with murder because there aren't enough people playing as tanks.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#73 Jan 14 2014 at 1:21 AM Rating: Good
****
4,145 posts
I always took notice of other player's performance in XI, but maybe it was because I was co-lead of an HNM shell. Personally, I think it was because there were so few opportunities in the game's encounters to really be exceptional. All a red mage or white mage had to do for me to think they were great was keep the group buffed, pay attention to and remove debuffs quickly and keep people alive. In most situations in XI that wasn't really hard to do... yet I still probably spent half of the time I was in groups as a tank either blinded, slowed, paralyzed, ect. Smiley: lol
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#74 Jan 14 2014 at 3:38 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
3,653 posts
One big step to fix this would be SE making "Join in progress" mutually exclusive from "Join new run" (i.e. the default).

The other problem at the moment is people wanting to get into Roulette with their friends/hubbies etc. They basically keep rolling DF groups until they end up in the same party. Again, not really their fault that it annoys everyone else.
____________________________
I tell you, we are here on Earth to **** around, and don’t let anybody tell you different.
#75 Jan 14 2014 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
*
181 posts
svlyons wrote:
domice wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.

Tanks generally have the most responsibility in this game in most of its group content though, because they generally are the pullers. In almost any dungeon/raid setting, these guys set the pace. Not everyone wants that responsibility.

Not everyone has to be a tank. Just 1 in 4 people. That's only 25%.

Yeah but there is proly no where near that many tanks in the population.

And that's the problem. Adding penalties for withdrawing from groups being formed doesn't address the underlying issue: tanks can get away with murder because there aren't enough people playing as tanks.


Yup but people shouldn't be upset if that's what they allowed. People will have 3 jobs leveled but they are all dps. Adding a penalty doesn't really hurt the tank just the dps. I Que for a dungeon with withdraw 2 times hit with a penalty and go off and run dailies maps side quest level another job and craft don't care. Now all that does is drop the tank population trying to run a dungeon from about 15% to 10% a far cry from the 25% you b need. Now the wait times will balloon up
#76 Jan 14 2014 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,506 posts
What are we really talking about though...?

Someone joins and leaves even 10 times, who cares. eventually he'll go away and/or stop when he/she realizes there arent any in progress groups going on, and 2 minutes later a new tank will have joined regardless.

Is it anoying? sure, slightly.

Will it stop you from getting a duty? No. It wont reset or quit your place in the queue, once you're first in line, you stay first in line till every role has the right amount of people who are also first in line and the duty starts.

I'm starting to think people are getting too frustrated about this. More than it should.
____________________________
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
#77 Jan 14 2014 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,658 posts
Strangerous wrote:
I really wish they made tanking and healing in these games more...entertaining. There has got to be a way to do it.

Tanks and healers get instant queues while I sit and wait for 55min. Sigh..

My guess is that tank was most likely looking for his favorite composition for the run...which is strange because he could just start a goup in chat and just wait the 15-30min it takes to reserve a spot on the duty server rather than rolling the dice.

Wait....

If you are the first to leave a dungeon you get a 15min lock out...

So on second thought...how the **** was he leaving then joining over and over?



Well the thing is whm and tanks really are harder jobs,.. But instead of doing things to make whm and pld more appealing they make them harder with like the end fight in pharos sirius. does to whm... I watch the drops too in like ct and the are almost always ARC or DRG and rarely WHM or PLD, or WAR. Give people a reason to play these jobs, give them special equipment, or mounts or some incentive to get people too play these jobs instead of beating up on them..


blowfin wrote:
One big step to fix this would be SE making "Join in progress" mutually exclusive from "Join new run" (i.e. the default).

The other problem at the moment is people wanting to get into Roulette with their friends/hubbies etc. They basically keep rolling DF groups until they end up in the same party. Again, not really their fault that it annoys everyone else.


Never thought of this but you are probably right..

What is weird is the other night we qued up for ct and got a party in 5 min.. but fior the next 20 min every 30 seconds we got some dropped from the party. Everytime we que up for ct this happens but not as extreme.. Why que up if you are not going to run it really... It is not just tanks though...




Edited, Jan 14th 2014 11:27am by Nashred
____________________________
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
#78 Jan 14 2014 at 5:48 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
283 posts
KojiroSoma wrote:
What are we really talking about though...?

Someone joins and leaves even 10 times, who cares. eventually he'll go away and/or stop when he/she realizes there arent any in progress groups going on, and 2 minutes later a new tank will have joined regardless.

Is it anoying? sure, slightly.

Will it stop you from getting a duty? No. It wont reset or quit your place in the queue, once you're first in line, you stay first in line till every role has the right amount of people who are also first in line and the duty starts.

I'm starting to think people are getting too frustrated about this. More than it should.


You don't know how the queue works do you? It can and dose reset your place in the queue. As a dps you are waiting 90% of the time on a tank. If you get into a CT queu and a tank drops guess what the DF system dose. It dose not keep you in the same party and look for more members. No in fact it will look for other groups that need x or y class and queue you up with them. As a tank that's no big deal. The tanks in the queue are matched in seconds with another group. For the dps on the other hand it means the loss of the tanks you are waiting on. This can mean another 30-40 mins of DF trying to match you up with a group.

I have had this happen to me on my BRD many times. I will get queued up and someone will withdraw now that wont be so bad the first time. But tanks are fishing for 3/4 groups so this happens 5 or 6 times. after the 6th withdraw ill sit there another 30 mins waiting on you guessed it tanks. Then ill get queued up again see 3 or 4 withdraws and then at last get into CT.

I don't care how you paint it this is trolling. Really the best way to fix this is make it much harder to rage quit a group. make the lockout time 1 or 2 hours not 30 min.. give people a 30 min lockout for withdrawing from DF. and git rid of the join already in progress BS. if the group fails it fails end of story. Try again. Really if you do this there is nothing for the people to fish for so there is no reason for them to be withdrawing and no reason for a 30 min lockout.

And I am sorry but this BS of I am the tank/healer so I should be aloud to do this because I play a selfless class and am helping people is just BS. you are no better than anyone else. I play a WHM because I love it and find it fun to play. I am not doing it because I am a selfless person.In fact I am a jerk and if I did not find healer fun to play I would not play it. In fact anyone claiming to play a tank/healer and not enjoy it.. Well most likely that's the ones you don't want to group with anyway.
#79 Jan 14 2014 at 6:21 PM Rating: Excellent
****
5,745 posts
Sethern79 wrote:
You don't know how the queue works do you? It can and dose reset your place in the queue. As a dps you are waiting 90% of the time on a tank. If you get into a CT queu and a tank drops guess what the DF system dose. It dose not keep you in the same party and look for more members. No in fact it will look for other groups that need x or y class and queue you up with them.

My experience has been the opposite of what you're saying. I may wait a half hour initially in DF and then be informed that a group has been formed. If a party member then withdraws, I will usually see a new notification about a group being formed in less than a minute. If it reset my place in the queue, I would consistently have to wait an additional half hour each time a member withdraws at this point, and that has not been the case.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#80 Jan 14 2014 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
*
181 posts
It can reset your place in queue, but it doesn't always and certainly not right away. My experience is that only happens after several commence duty messages get withdrawn. I think it is actually an error with the Duty Finder when that does happen.

For instance, I queued for Brayflox as a Warrior and the same healer repeatedly withdrew from the duty so many times in a row until the duty finder kicked me out of the queue. This repeated 5 or so times until I just gave up and went to sleep. My guess is, since it was so late at night that there were only 4 people interested in running Brayflox within my World/Server cluster. And one of us kept withdrawing until the duty finder just spat us out altogether.
____________________________
Wiggums: "Lou! Lou are you alright!?"
Lou: The electric yellow has got me by the brain banana.
Hunter Gathers (Goblin)
#81 Jan 14 2014 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
nonameoflevi wrote:
Several times this weekend I was in DF, me as healer and 2 DD ready to go. The DF pops and someone withdraws right away (Tank). It pops again and withdraws right away. It pops again and withdraws right away ad nasuem. Each time it was the tank slot. One time it pops, we get inside, and the tank drops. Was this an isolated incidence this weekend or did others come across this? Maybe YOU where one of the Tanks in question!


What this actually is:

Tanks or any other insta-queue jobs can tell if the DF is starting from the start, or join in progress. So, they want in progress, for a faster run in roulette. They cancel when they see its starting, not in-progress.

It's annoying, and happens ALL THE TIME in CT. I hate it, and they should be penalized for declining.
____________________________


#82KojiroSoma, Posted: Jan 15 2014 at 5:25 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sounds like you are the one who does not understand how Duty Finder works in FFXIV. Here's why you shouldnt get your panties in a bunch so much.
#83 Jan 15 2014 at 2:46 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
***
1,310 posts
Louiscool wrote:
What this actually is:

Tanks or any other insta-queue jobs can tell if the DF is starting from the start, or join in progress. So, they want in progress, for a faster run in roulette. They cancel when they see its starting, not in-progress.

It's annoying, and happens ALL THE TIME in CT. I hate it, and they should be penalized for declining.


Except, it's a godsend when tanks join mid-battle when someone drops (or gets kicked), and that wouldn't happen expediently unless tanks were actively looking for in-progress fights to join. Plus, there's a serious tank shortage as it is. Adding any sort of penalties to tanks would only make that problem worse, and wait times longer for everyone.

The problem is with the system being annoying, and not the tanks. I know there's plans in the works to make seeking in-progress fights exclusive from fresh ones which should solve the problem.
#84 Jan 16 2014 at 4:42 AM Rating: Good
****
4,145 posts
Xoie wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
What this actually is:

Tanks or any other insta-queue jobs can tell if the DF is starting from the start, or join in progress. So, they want in progress, for a faster run in roulette. They cancel when they see its starting, not in-progress.

It's annoying, and happens ALL THE TIME in CT. I hate it, and they should be penalized for declining.


Except, it's a godsend when tanks join mid-battle when someone drops (or gets kicked), and that wouldn't happen expediently unless tanks were actively looking for in-progress fights to join.

Seems like a no-brainer to me...

Don't grant a reward at the end of a dungeon as a bonus. Divide it up among the bosses in the instance. That's the only way to reward people evenly for their contribution and you don't have to penalize anyone. The bottom line is that people won't participate unless they have incentive. You can't load all that incentive at the end of something that allows people to start at different intervals. C'mon SE Smiley: oyvey

____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#85 Jan 16 2014 at 6:06 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
728 posts
Not sure if it's been said or not but the real reason for this is tanks trying to spam already in progress dungeon queues, trying to get into a dungeon on the last boss and bypass the rest of the dungeon to get their myth. That's all it is, not that it's a good thing. I guess someone should tell these tryhards to calm themselves since there isn't enough elite content to devote that saved time to.
____________________________
FFXI: DamienSlvrblade Race: Elvaan Nation: San d'Oria Server: Sylph 2002-2007, Phoenix 2012
PUP WHM PLD MNK BLU BST SAM WAR BLM 99 BRD THF NIN DNC SMN RDM 50+

FFXIV: Damien Scott Race: Duskwight Elezen GC: Limsa Lominsa Server: Ultros
DoW GLA50 ACN50 PUG50 MAR 50 Rest30+
DoH/DoL All 40+
#86 Jan 16 2014 at 9:04 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,270 posts
I thought i would add a new tactic.

So apparently the new cool thing to do is to force DC when you zone into a HL DF Roulette if its not WP/AK. Had 3 different healers all do this to us last night in Pharos, again in HM hard, and then finally in copper bell.

You dc for 5 minutes, are auto booted, and suffer no penalty. And apparently healers arent big into joining in progress runs cause we waited 30 minutes at the zone in to each instance before we would drop.
#87 Jan 16 2014 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
Jack of All Trades
******
29,611 posts
Anyone who bails on Haukke HM is almost guaranteed to be a failure anyway

The other two are a bit more justifiable

Strangely though, the only time yet I've had someone bail before the start of a run was for that Halatali run I mentioned above. Gotten Copperbell once and Pharos twice, but each time everyone toughed it out.

Edited, Jan 16th 2014 10:08am by Fynlar
#88 Jan 16 2014 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
***
1,270 posts
Actually Fynlar I find the opposite to be true.

Haukke HM requires very high DD for the final boss, it may be the shortest of the new dungeons but if you dont have 2x relic+1 dd it can be rough. I am a firm believer that there is a trick to the first/last boss in Haukke manor and we just havent figured it out. I say this because Copper bell/Pharos are SUPER easy now that I know the tricks to every boss. Like i48 is actually a fair ilevel for those dungeons since there is no super DPS race at any point.
#89 Jan 16 2014 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
****
5,745 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Seems like a no-brainer to me...

Don't grant a reward at the end of a dungeon as a bonus. Divide it up among the bosses in the instance. That's the only way to reward people evenly for their contribution and you don't have to penalize anyone. The bottom line is that people won't participate unless they have incentive. You can't load all that incentive at the end of something that allows people to start at different intervals. C'mon SE Smiley: oyvey

But once you remove the big carrot for joining in progress (all of the myths for potentially only small amount of time and effort), will there be enough incentive for people to ever use join in progress? Take the different reasons why a group needs to fill a spot once they are already inside:
1) A party member d/c'ed or had to leave unexpectedly.
2) The party was so dysfunctional that one or more party members decided it was better to abandon the group and start over.

I don't have any statistics to back this up, but I'd bet that case #2 happens far more often than #1. Why take the risk of winding up in a situation like #2 when the best case scenario is potentially getting less myth than doing a full run? Tanks are so in-demand that they tend to hold their random DF groups to a higher standard, and thus #2 probably happens more often with the tank slot than other slots. So if you were a tank, why would you risk joining in progress any more? On the other end of the spectrum, DPS have such long queue times that it would have to be a truly horrific party in a doomed run for a DPS to abandon the group. If you were a DPS, why would you risk joining in progress any more?

If there's no additional incentive to join in progress over starting fresh, the join in progress option will probably become something that people only use to bail out a friend that's stuck inside a dungeon without a full group.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#90 Jan 16 2014 at 2:01 PM Rating: Default
****
4,145 posts
svlyons wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Seems like a no-brainer to me...

Don't grant a reward at the end of a dungeon as a bonus. Divide it up among the bosses in the instance. That's the only way to reward people evenly for their contribution and you don't have to penalize anyone. The bottom line is that people won't participate unless they have incentive. You can't load all that incentive at the end of something that allows people to start at different intervals. C'mon SE Smiley: oyvey

But once you remove the big carrot for joining in progress (all of the myths for potentially only small amount of time and effort), will there be enough incentive for people to ever use join in progress? Take the different reasons why a group needs to fill a spot once they are already inside:
1) A party member d/c'ed or had to leave unexpectedly.
2) The party was so dysfunctional that one or more party members decided it was better to abandon the group and start over.


You're not removing incentive, just spreading it out. That way people are getting rewarded based on their contribution. Incentive to join either a fresh run or one already in progress is equal. If there is more of a reward for one or the other then people will continue to try and get more reward for less effort. That's the underlying issue here.

The problem needs to be solved on the front end. You need to be looking at why people do or do not join dungeons, not why they leave. #1 is just a fact of life. #2 should be handled by a vote to kick feature.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#91 Jan 16 2014 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,270 posts
The better way to do it is make mytho based on what % of mobs (boss + trash) you helped kill, and give a secondary reward for joining in progress. Like + 3 commendations if you join in progress and then they finish the run.
#92 Jan 16 2014 at 3:03 PM Rating: Excellent
Needs More Smut
******
21,262 posts
dustinfoley wrote:
The better way to do it is make mytho based on what % of mobs (boss + trash) you helped kill, and give a secondary reward for joining in progress. Like + 3 commendations if you join in progress and then they finish the run.


What about the healers? Smiley: mad There are some trash mobs I don't get a chance to tag before a DPS mows them down.

Unless by "help" you mean "is in the party when it dies," then okay.

Edited, Jan 16th 2014 4:04pm by Catwho
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#93 Jan 16 2014 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,145 posts
Catwho wrote:
dustinfoley wrote:
The better way to do it is make mytho based on what % of mobs (boss + trash) you helped kill, and give a secondary reward for joining in progress. Like + 3 commendations if you join in progress and then they finish the run.


What about the healers? Smiley: mad There are some trash mobs I don't get a chance to tag before a DPS mows them down.

Unless by "help" you mean "is in the party when it dies," then okay.


Too much trouble to break down all the instances by percentage. Much easier and just as effective to spread the bonus across the bosses rather than every mob. That way people don't get dinged for skipping trash either.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#94 Jan 16 2014 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
*
181 posts
i just don't think that there is a real fix that doesn't hose everyone and as much as people complain things could be way worse with some of your suggestions an things are not that bad.

if there is no incentive to join a inprogress dungeon then no tanks will join, simple as that. and that annoying 10 min withdrawal is going to seem really nice then having a tank drop mid dungeon and now you wasted 30 mins in the que, 30 min in the dungeon, and now another 30 min back in que and 45 mins to run the dungeon just to get your what 30 or 50 myth.

the true cause of the problem is everyone wants to play a career dps and have alts that are dps as well. so to me it seems like a self inflected problem and if you want the problem fixed just level a tank job so there are more tanks in the population. i play a pld and use it to gear my drg as it stands now i really have no reason to run dungeons or use df for anything other then CT and one HL duty roulette.

coil gives me 150 myth, i usually takes me about 3 runs of ct to get the piece i want and i do one HL dutty roulette and that right there is about 390 out of 450 tomes and the rest i can pick up doing ulitma and primals. and when my fc can down T5 ill have on reason to ever use df to run dungeons, so if you keep adding stiffer penalties to df to a population that is in so high demand and such short supply and with a party finder system that they can fill quickly that would just leave the vast majority of dps looking for parties with even longer wait times.
#95 Jan 16 2014 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
****
5,745 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
svlyons wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Seems like a no-brainer to me...

Don't grant a reward at the end of a dungeon as a bonus. Divide it up among the bosses in the instance. That's the only way to reward people evenly for their contribution and you don't have to penalize anyone. The bottom line is that people won't participate unless they have incentive. You can't load all that incentive at the end of something that allows people to start at different intervals. C'mon SE Smiley: oyvey

But once you remove the big carrot for joining in progress (all of the myths for potentially only small amount of time and effort), will there be enough incentive for people to ever use join in progress? Take the different reasons why a group needs to fill a spot once they are already inside:
1) A party member d/c'ed or had to leave unexpectedly.
2) The party was so dysfunctional that one or more party members decided it was better to abandon the group and start over.

You're not removing incentive, just spreading it out. That way people are getting rewarded based on their contribution. Incentive to join either a fresh run or one already in progress is equal. If there is more of a reward for one or the other then people will continue to try and get more reward for less effort. That's the underlying issue here.

You're spreading out the incentive to do the dungeon. But that's completely different from the incentive to join in progress. What's the incentive to join in progress? For DPS, the incentive tends to be reduced seek time. But it also carries with it the risk that you wind up joining an empty or mostly empty group and having to simply re-queue. Tanks don't need to join in progress to reduce seek time. So what is the incentive for them to choose the option to join in progress?

If there's no additional incentive for joining in progress, players won't have a reason to choose that option because of the risks that come with it.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#96 Jan 16 2014 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,145 posts
Joining a dungeon in progress is forced in every other MMO I can think of. Why is it optional in XIV? Hmmm... Smiley: grin

Anyhow, the point I was trying to make was only in regard to roulette rewards being used as incentive to run instances. Queues will always be problematic because of the population spread. The suggestion I made was to keep roulette from complicating those problems.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#97 Jan 17 2014 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
*
137 posts
Louiscool wrote:
nonameoflevi wrote:
Several times this weekend I was in DF, me as healer and 2 DD ready to go. The DF pops and someone withdraws right away (Tank). It pops again and withdraws right away. It pops again and withdraws right away ad nasuem. Each time it was the tank slot. One time it pops, we get inside, and the tank drops. Was this an isolated incidence this weekend or did others come across this? Maybe YOU where one of the Tanks in question!


What this actually is:

Tanks or any other insta-queue jobs can tell if the DF is starting from the start, or join in progress. So, they want in progress, for a faster run in roulette. They cancel when they see its starting, not in-progress.



I don't get why these people even play the game if they don't want to do the content.

#98 Jan 17 2014 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
**
589 posts
Louiscool wrote:
nonameoflevi wrote:
Several times this weekend I was in DF, me as healer and 2 DD ready to go. The DF pops and someone withdraws right away (Tank). It pops again and withdraws right away. It pops again and withdraws right away ad nasuem. Each time it was the tank slot. One time it pops, we get inside, and the tank drops. Was this an isolated incidence this weekend or did others come across this? Maybe YOU where one of the Tanks in question!


What this actually is:

Tanks or any other insta-queue jobs can tell if the DF is starting from the start, or join in progress. So, they want in progress, for a faster run in roulette. They cancel when they see its starting, not in-progress.

It's annoying, and happens ALL THE TIME in CT. I hate it, and they should be penalized for declining.


Ha I posted this before there was roulette in game.
#99 Jan 17 2014 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,232 posts
Anyone can tell if a dungeon is in progress. When the box pops up that tells you it's ready there are yellow/gold numbers that will say 1/3 or 0/4... which tells you how many bosses have been downed out of the total. You get no penalty if you withdraw when the box pops up... and no penalty if you go in and withdraw from a group in progress.
____________________________
Character: Urzol Thrush
Server: Ultros
FC: The Kraken Club

Outshined

Teneleven wrote:
We secretly replaced your tank wemelchor with Foldgers Crystal's. Let's see what happens.

#100 Jan 17 2014 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
****
5,745 posts
squiress wrote:
I don't get why these people even play the game if they don't want to do the content.

After doing WP dozens and dozens of times already, can you blame them for wanting to make the most of their time? You don't even get to do unusual oddball strategies with DF runs.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#101 Jan 17 2014 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
**
589 posts
svlyons wrote:
squiress wrote:
I don't get why these people even play the game if they don't want to do the content.

After doing WP dozens and dozens of times already, can you blame them for wanting to make the most of their time? You don't even get to do unusual oddball strategies with DF runs.


It takes no time at all to cap ToP and ToP and there are many different ways to do it. The WP grind is only if they choose it now.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 75 All times are in CST
Callinon, Anonymous Guests (74)