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Just did my first dungeonFollow

#1 Sep 17 2013 at 2:31 AM Rating: Decent
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The tank was ok.. not horrible but not great either. When there WERE deaths he was always the first to die. If the tank is always the first to die then in my eyes that means they were obviously doing their job.

The only issue was me and the tank were first timers and the other two in the party (who probably did it before) were JP so there wasnt much communication going on. We actually died on the first boss 5+ times (yes i know.. in Sashsta.. (dont laugh at me lol) If we had that much trouble there I dont even wanna fight Ifrit lol. So with no one to explain how things worked for us and my unwillingness to look it up online (i find more satisfaction in being intelligent enough to figure it out myself.. after all the first ppl to do it didnt have guides they could go online and look at right?) Once we died for the 54th time be and the tank took the shortcut back to the fight which was sealed off while the other DD and mage were in there still fighting... I noticed water bubbling from the ground.. I also recalled there were points during the fight that always said "water starts rising from the ground" At first i thought that message was a warning of the bosses special attack. But once i could physically see the water i thought "hmm I wonder what happens if i go touch that when it happens?" so after the two ppl inside finally died and shortcutted back I tested my new realization and noticed it stopped the adds from coming. Which lead me to figure out why in our other attempts the CNJ would stop healing (and that usually lead to tank death) despite ppls hp getting low maybe they were thinking "why arent these guys closing these doors? Guess ill go do it myself" and in the process of trying to do that no ones getting healed and deaths occur (if i was on an NA server then that probably wouldnt have happened as whoever was in there woulda most likely yelled at us to go do it before 5+ wipes happened)

though even with me figuring it out the DD and tank died at some point and it was just me and the CNJ... we duoed the last boss.. the CNJ had hate and just ran around kiting him and staying out of his range while I got free hits without him ever once turning to face me... until he died.. Was quite fun. Im looking forward to my next adventure.. hopefully it goes smoother though.


Speaking of tanking how is it done in this game, flash doesnt seem to generate a lot of enmity... theres no provoke at level 15 (and even if it was im sure it doesnt generate enmity on par of its FFXI counterpart) and spamming flash doesnt make you a hate machine.. and even if it does you cant use it once you run outta mp. So if anyone can give me some tanking/hate holding tips as GLD so I can pass on to my RL GLD friend in hopes or making our next run much smoother Id appreciate it. But yeah that dungeon run was actually quite hard and i actually finally got some difficulty that i was looking for.. it still isnt close to CoP but Im quite happy at the fact that i managed to die 5+ times (though its also quite sad since it was the fist dungeon) t least it wasnt a COMPLETE walk in the park. I give it poisnt for that.
#2 Sep 17 2013 at 2:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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What was the part makeup? Sastasha should be pretty easy, as it's the first real dungeon, and Flash should have been enough for your Gladiator to maintain emnity mixing it up with weaponskills - unless you had a dps that was spamming damage too much (which actually happens a lot in dungeons).

The best advice you can give your Tank friend when running dungeons is to use the mark target function, so the whole party works on the same target quickly, and effectively. Also, move slowly so you don't aggro large groups of mobs (a very real threat in Huakke Manor). Make sure the Conjurer just focuses on healing, specifically on the tank, so the healer should lock target on the tank and cure when needed, maybe throw in a stone or aero when s/he can, and run in to the group to cast Medica if the party is hit by AOE damage.
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#3 Sep 17 2013 at 3:00 AM Rating: Default
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Well at first. If the tank allways dies first and didnt did something wrong (like pulling a second Group, Standing in something he should avoid in bossfight and so on) than most times the healer sucks. I wished allready a lot of times i could kick the heal, because they are a lot of **** healers in this games witch often run out of mana in middle of Boss fight (most times around 50%).


My Char is a PLD/GLD to and yea generating enmity, specially on Groups is real a torture, it works but its not fun. You Need to mark a enemy first and make sure the DDs only Focus this one, than you run into the Group make 1 or 2 times Flash, so you get the Aggro from everyone for a short time and then use singel target skills on the market one, from time to time you use Flash again when mana is ok to generate addional emity on the Targets not beeing attackt now. After the Target is Dead you mark a new one and hope the DDs attack the right one. What often can happen is that the healer is generating with his heals so mutch enimty than only the flash while tanking more than 1 enemy dont will hold the aggro. So you maybe Need to Switch between the Targets while tanking. Ist real frustrating and dont will get mutch better on 50, you get an Aura as pala for mor aggro and less dmg but it didnt make mutch difference and so on. I think marudar is the better choice for Group tanking. Dont know how well it works on bosses.
#4 Sep 17 2013 at 3:06 AM Rating: Decent
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As far as tanking for gladiator fast blade---> savage blade combo is the main way for a gladiator to keep hate low level I believe as the weaponskill combo provides an enmity boost. One of the major mistakes I made starting out as gladiator was going for fast blade--> riot blade all the time because it does slightly more damage and can restore some mp, but I now use it occassionally after I feel enmity on the mob is well established.


#5 Sep 17 2013 at 3:14 AM Rating: Good
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Missbone wrote:
After the Target is Dead you mark a new one and hope the DDs attack the right one.


Note, you can mark target 1, 2, 3, etc ..

Just make sure your party knows you are doing this and to follow that order, especially if you need the THM to sleep targets 2 and 3 while you work on the first one. A good Conjurer will know they don't need to spam Cures, and a times shouldn't even use Cure II except in a rotation (e.g. Cure → Cure → Cure II → Cure to generate as little enmity as possible).

Honestly, spending a couple of minutes before you start your run to set some guidelines will make all the difference, and nine times out of ten your part will thank you for it. Not all Healers are intentionally bad, some - most (at the moment) are new to the game and are not familiar with the mechanics.

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 5:16am by SolomonGrundy
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#6 Sep 17 2013 at 3:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Well yea, bit when im in a lvl 50 Group, i think they allready should known how their class works so far. I usually just mark one target after another (and a diffrent sign if there is something to sleep) because most DDs i seen dont follow the numbers. So i just say market Target first and all is fine. If Target will die in the next second i mark a new one and all is fine. That works most times real good and is easy enough, i use a Macro for choosing mark so its just 1 button push.
#7 Sep 17 2013 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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So do you still think the game is to easy?
#8 Sep 17 2013 at 8:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Flash generates plenty of enmity, tank probably didnt use it enough. its very easy to establish and build up hate and much more difficult to get hate back when you lose it. especially at that level.

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#9 Sep 17 2013 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

Speaking of tanking how is it done in this game, flash doesnt seem to generate a lot of enmity... theres no provoke at level 15 (and even if it was im sure it doesnt generate enmity on par of its FFXI counterpart) and spamming flash doesnt make you a hate machine.. and even if it does you cant use it once you run outta mp. So if anyone can give me some tanking/hate holding tips as GLD so I can pass on to my RL GLD friend in hopes or making our next run much smoother Id appreciate it. But yeah that dungeon run was actually quite hard and i actually finally got some difficulty that i was looking for.. it still isnt close to CoP but Im quite happy at the fact that i managed to die 5+ times (though its also quite sad since it was the fist dungeon) t least it wasnt a COMPLETE walk in the park. I give it poisnt for that.


I got news for you, this dungeon is a complete walk in the park. It didn't matter matter how poorly our puller(tank) was or if we paid attention or not, this dungeon you can clear so easily it's not funny. I've done this dungeon in Phase 3 with zero communication. Even all the newbie mistakes me and others made weren't enough to wipe more than once if at all. If you want the hardcore challenge of CoP before the nerf, get ready to cry now because it's coming. So many of the dungeons have bosses that don't even show where to stand and the AoEs are extremely dangerous. Of course none of these fights are impossible, but the bosses and avatars for that matter like Titan and Garuda are cheapshot artists. You'll be ready to pull your hair out when Titan continuously knocks newbie players off the battlefield to their death Mortal Kombat fatality style. As someone who unlocked Sea longer before the nerf, I can tell you the challenge is on par. You just don't need to farm endlessly for pop items.

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 9:41am by ShadowedgeFFXI
#10 Sep 17 2013 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Provoke is lvl 22 for GLD, and it works just as well as it did in FFXI. GLD/PLD tanks work harder to keep group hate than MRD/WAR. My main is WAR and I've had no problems keeping group hate. Single target hate is just as good. Was your GLD tank using Shield Lob at all? It's a good way to get enmity on that first mob when pulling, and just follow it up with Flash when that mob and any it's linked to get close. From there you can play them like drums with your enmity building attacks, or simply mark one and occasionally Flash to keep the others from running to the healer. With my War I usually lead with Overpower when they're coming in and follow with Flash. From there it's bouncing enmity attacks between them, berserk + overpower, and several other combos (steel cyclone when vengeance is at 5, etc). I use Provoke if one decides to stray. The key is knowing what all of your abilities do and using ALL of them. Especially at high levels, when you simply can't afford to be lazy.
#11 Sep 17 2013 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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My first dungeon went quite smoothly as people were patient enough to explain what is going on/ I can see paired with JP and no communication would be rather tough.

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 11:33am by KyrieFeanor
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#12 Sep 17 2013 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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My first dungeon wasn't to bad, i was CNJ and our tank died once during the whole run, that was it, i felt so horrible for not saving him/her in time, but everyone was really understanding about it. Since then, i've tried my damnedest to make sure no one dies w/ my SCH in party. NEVER AGAIN!
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#13 Sep 17 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Default
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well our setup was PUG x2, GLD and CNJ. The CNJ was the one always pulling hate off the tank. and No he wasnt using shield lob just savage + flat blade combo (or w./e one gives enmity bonus) plus Flash. As for going slow and not pulling groups thats kinda hard not to do when theyre all piled up on top of eachother. i.e fighting one at a time isnt gonna happen lol.

As for do I still think teh game is easy. Yes so far do. although actually dying did make me smile that wasnt really "hard" it was more of a "we only got creamed cause we didnt know what we were doing" issue. Once we figured it out it was cake. Something that was really hard would still creamed you even if you know beforehand 100% what to do, how to do it and what to expect (every fight in CoP pre nerf for example). If that is indeed coming "eventually" why would I cry? Id actually LOVE it.

As for communication and going over things beforehand. Well remember the part about the two of us that spoke English were first timers and the other two were JP? i.e communication/someone going over it wasnt exactly an option
#14 Sep 17 2013 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

As for do I still think teh game is easy. Yes so far do. although actually dying did make me smile that wasnt really "hard" it was more of a "we only got creamed cause we didnt know what we were doing" issue.


Quote:
We actually died on the first boss 5+ times


Smiley: dubious
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#15 Sep 17 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
well our setup was PUG x2, GLD and CNJ. The CNJ was the one always pulling hate off the tank. and No he wasnt using shield lob just savage + flat blade combo (or w./e one gives enmity bonus) plus Flash. As for going slow and not pulling groups thats kinda hard not to do when theyre all piled up on top of eachother. i.e fighting one at a time isnt gonna happen lol.

As for do I still think teh game is easy. Yes so far do. although actually dying did make me smile that wasnt really "hard" it was more of a "we only got creamed cause we didnt know what we were doing" issue. Once we figured it out it was cake. Something that was really hard would still creamed you even if you know beforehand 100% what to do, how to do it and what to expect (every fight in CoP pre nerf for example). If that is indeed coming "eventually" why would I cry? Id actually LOVE it.

As for communication and going over things beforehand. Well remember the part about the two of us that spoke English were first timers and the other two were JP? i.e communication/someone going over it wasnt exactly an option


Until furtur notice google translate is your friend

Googleの翻訳者はあなたの友達です
#16 Sep 17 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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I had a thought that you could pretty much run Sastasha with any party make up you wanted. I know I've run with only an Arcanist as healer a number of times (don't know why they can't queue as healers...). Glad to hear it is still a challenge for some newer parties.

I also didn't realize the boss was that hard. We've stopped adds and just burned him down before. Both seem to work for strategies.

As for bad healers/bad tanks, I think there are both out there and they both could just use a good round of advice. Maybe direct them here in their off hours, or make polite suggestions in game. Also remember the DD can ***** things up too now and then.
#17 Sep 17 2013 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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algorithm0r wrote:
I had a thought that you could pretty much run Sastasha with any party make up you wanted.


you actually don't even need a tank really
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#18 Sep 17 2013 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

As for do I still think teh game is easy. Yes so far do. although actually dying did make me smile that wasnt really "hard" it was more of a "we only got creamed cause we didnt know what we were doing" issue.


Quote:
We actually died on the first boss 5+ times


Smiley: dubious



yeah thats because thats how many times it took to figure out "go touch thoe water panels to stop the extra enemies" from coming. once that happened it was easy and we won. in CoP you could do the mammet fight knowing you need yellow liquid, knowing what to use it for and that you have to kite two of them if youre not using 3nin 3whm setup and knowing all that you can still lose. even 3nin x3whm setup isnt a 100% guaranteed victory . knowing exactly what to do in the Sashasta fight on the other hand is a 100% guaranteed victory thus "not really hard"

hard fights can still kick your *** even fi you are prepared for them and know full well what to do
#19 Sep 17 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Default
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algorithm0r wrote:
I had a thought that you could pretty much run Sastasha with any party make up you wanted. I know I've run with only an Arcanist as healer a number of times (don't know why they can't queue as healers...). Glad to hear it is still a challenge for some newer parties.

I also didn't realize the boss was that hard. We've stopped adds and just burned him down before. Both seem to work for strategies.

As for bad healers/bad tanks, I think there are both out there and they both could just use a good round of advice. Maybe direct them here in their off hours, or make polite suggestions in game. Also remember the DD can ***** things up too now and then.



well thats the thing the boss itself isnt hard.. its just that adds that make it so, once you figure out how to stop the adds then the fight is a joke
#20 Sep 17 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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I did Satasha with ACN x4 my first time. It was awesome!
#21 Sep 17 2013 at 10:01 AM Rating: Default
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nonameoflevi wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
well our setup was PUG x2, GLD and CNJ. The CNJ was the one always pulling hate off the tank. and No he wasnt using shield lob just savage + flat blade combo (or w./e one gives enmity bonus) plus Flash. As for going slow and not pulling groups thats kinda hard not to do when theyre all piled up on top of eachother. i.e fighting one at a time isnt gonna happen lol.

As for do I still think teh game is easy. Yes so far do. although actually dying did make me smile that wasnt really "hard" it was more of a "we only got creamed cause we didnt know what we were doing" issue. Once we figured it out it was cake. Something that was really hard would still creamed you even if you know beforehand 100% what to do, how to do it and what to expect (every fight in CoP pre nerf for example). If that is indeed coming "eventually" why would I cry? Id actually LOVE it.

As for communication and going over things beforehand. Well remember the part about the two of us that spoke English were first timers and the other two were JP? i.e communication/someone going over it wasnt exactly an option


Until furtur notice google translate is your friend

Googleの翻訳者はあなたの友達です



Umm im supposed to someone use Google translator ingame when I play with JPs? I hope thats not what you were implying lol
#22 Sep 17 2013 at 10:02 AM Rating: Default
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Mollyrose wrote:
I did Satasha with ACN x4 my first time. It was awesome!



how can you do that? i though tyou HA dto endter DF with a tank 2 DDs in a healer? i.e im sure arcanist cant enter as a tank so how would that setup even be allowed entry?
#23 Sep 17 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
algorithm0r wrote:
I had a thought that you could pretty much run Sastasha with any party make up you wanted. I know I've run with only an Arcanist as healer a number of times (don't know why they can't queue as healers...). Glad to hear it is still a challenge for some newer parties.

I also didn't realize the boss was that hard. We've stopped adds and just burned him down before. Both seem to work for strategies.

As for bad healers/bad tanks, I think there are both out there and they both could just use a good round of advice. Maybe direct them here in their off hours, or make polite suggestions in game. Also remember the DD can ***** things up too now and then.



well thats the thing the boss itself isnt hard.. its just that adds that make it so, once you figure out how to stop the adds then the fight is a joke


Sorry is just hard for me to not point out how HARD this one was for you yet you say its a joke. This one is indeed easy mode compared to whats ahead. And the party about the bubbly water, that seemed very standard dungeon mechanics. Also, knowing that does NOT stop the adds from coming. There are 4 spawn areas as you know and four members in your party. When I did it I covered two areas while everyone ignored the other two. This required hitting sprint and it was still on CD for the next wave. Knowing the fight means little when you have 3-7 other PCs going at it.
#24 Sep 17 2013 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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you can pretty easily do it without even bothering to stop the adds but anyway glad you had some fun/challenge
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#25 Sep 17 2013 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Mollyrose wrote:
I did Satasha with ACN x4 my first time. It was awesome!



how can you do that? i though tyou HA dto endter DF with a tank 2 DDs in a healer? i.e im sure arcanist cant enter as a tank so how would that setup even be allowed entry?

If you are trying to find a party via DF, it wouldn't have put us together, but it let us in since we were already in a party. Well... this was true during open beta, which is when I did Satasha.
#26 Sep 17 2013 at 10:21 AM Rating: Default
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Llester wrote:
you can pretty easily do it without even bothering to stop the adds but anyway glad you had some fun/challenge



yeah we got close to winning multiple times without stopping the adds and just trying to burn teh boss while ignoring teh adds lol got him to 5% and even a lot less than that but in the end we wiped before we could finish lol
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