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Would you see free to play as a failure?Follow

#52 Sep 18 2013 at 6:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Can we start to consider repeat threads like this spam already and begin locking them on arrival? The list of duplicates on this subject could fill its own page right now. At this point I'd say it's fair to post Yoshida's interview on the subject a a sticky and leave it at that.

Also, small surprise that Preludes is now making multiple threads of questionable intentions. This seems to be a trend of a players of certain leanings.
#53 Sep 18 2013 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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He's trolling for attention and we're only giving it to him because we're stuck at work and not playing the game at home.

I literally ran out of work today and had to sheepishly ask my boss if she had anything else for me to do. Can only spam posts on ZAM so much, after all.
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#54 Sep 18 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
Can only spam posts on ZAM so much, after all.
That sounds like a challenge.
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#55 Sep 18 2013 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
kenage wrote:
Well I speak with my dollars, not only I'll support games like WOW or FFXIV I will stop supporting them if they go F2P, because it hurts the quality of the product, it becomes greens to reds to blues with incredibly step curves for those who actually play for free and hollow rewards for those who pay.


I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that F2P inevitably leads to a lower quality product. The curve for what it takes to acquire experience, items, gear, ect. may be steeper, but if you look around almost any XIV board you'd see that the majority are disappointed by the lack of challenge and/or commitment required to enjoy the game.


I won't comment on the second point simply due to lack of data, but I agree with your first. When it comes to F2P, people in the know understand that a good model requires player engagement before any kind of long lasting conversion to spending happens. In other words, crap games with F2P models don't last. Engaging games with F2P models tend to last and thrive.

Also, the Yoshi quote about "shutting the game down rather than go F2P" is, I am pretty sure, made up. I'd prefer the game did not go F2P, but if the quality is good, and it isn't pay to win (yes there is a huge difference), then I don't necessarily care.


Catwho wrote:
He's trolling for attention and we're only giving it to him because we're stuck at work and not playing the game at home.


Idk about the giving attention part, but the rest of it you nailed.

Edited, Sep 18th 2013 1:50pm by Llester
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#56 Sep 18 2013 at 12:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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scchan wrote:
1) The horse was beaten to death before he could find its free lunch.
2) In Soviet Russia, horses play free games. Sorry guys, but Comrade Stalin is dead.
3) In Capitalist America, horses will be beaten or starved to death if it considers the idea of free stuff.

(I am not sure I am making sense - may be I am reading too much absurdist humour)


And now for something completely different.

I don't think F2P is a failure in and of itself. There are some F2P plans that run along side P2P that I appreciate, in fact, because they are designed to curb RMT. If that were the goal, I'd be all for it, because RMT drive me bonkers.

But MMOs have to make money, so there's no such thing as a free lunch. Fundamentally, F2P MMOs that sell shortcuts and premium gear for a living will always be about paying to win rather than succeeding in the game by playing it well, and it's not what I want to spend my entertainment dollars on. Furthermore, this type of model usually doesn't have a lot of money for new development since cash flow is unpredictable and unreliable, so you're looking at a very stagnate game that never really changes or has new adventures to look forward to.
#57 Sep 18 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh, and to comment on the OP question: No, I wouldn't.

I'm already subscribed for my first 90 days, but I guess I wouldn't mind if the game went F2P.

As long as it didn't affect the game itself, like League of Legends, I probably wouldn't care that much.
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#58 Sep 18 2013 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm honestly okay with free to play for older games. Of course, Buy to Play is much nicer.
#59 Sep 18 2013 at 9:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I would quit playing pretty much immediately if it went F2P. Almost inevitably F2P becomes P2W. I have quit several games now after their transition to F2P and microtransactions. I like knowing how much I will spend monthly without the temptation of cash shortcuts,
#60 Sep 19 2013 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
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preludes wrote:
[..]

Would you see it as a complete failure and leave the game[..]?

Yes.

Edit: obviously your question is to provoke a reaction. And I give you my stance on that in the shortest form possible.


Edited, Sep 19th 2013 12:10pm by Arnulf
#61 Sep 19 2013 at 4:22 AM Rating: Default
lol it doesn't matter what Yoshi says to be honest cuz the bottom line.. he's not the BOSS at square. If the Big bosses at square wants to do free to play, it will go free to play, simple as that. If the bosses think it's the right move then that's the direction they will go. Sure Yoshi can disagree all he wants, but that's just his creative perspective, and sometimes that doesn't = $$$$$
#62 Sep 19 2013 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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WinterWindstrife wrote:
lol it doesn't matter what Yoshi says to be honest cuz the bottom line.. he's not the BOSS at square. If the Big bosses at square wants to do free to play, it will go free to play, simple as that. If the bosses think it's the right move then that's the direction they will go. Sure Yoshi can disagree all he wants, but that's just his creative perspective, and sometimes that doesn't = $$$$$



As the Director of FFXIV, he can do whatever he wants. The Board of Directors for SE would not push for a free to play scheme. They are there for the money after all.

Edit: There is a reason SE told the 1.0 team to GTFO. And sadly, they were FFXI's original team. I do feel bad about that.

So it's either, make money, or don't run a game at all.



Edited, Sep 19th 2013 9:11am by TwilightSkye
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#63 Sep 19 2013 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
who says a free to play scheme doesn't make money? Look at what Valve is doing with Dota 2 and Riot doing with League of Legends or even Guild Wars 2. They can go free to play and just charge for expansions.
#64 Sep 19 2013 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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A F2P game can be profitable, but the development team tends to be much leaner. A F2P game focuses less on new content and more on new ways to get you to spend money via the cash shop (new armor, new clothes, etc.) So they need fewer resources. I'd venture to say most F2P games run with a staff of no more than twenty.

SE will probably be maintaining a 100-person dev team for XIV because they'll not only be adding new armor and pets and crap, but also new story, new zones, etc, outside of regular expansions.

I did a bunch of mathy calculations which may or may not be right because we don't have hard numbers, other than two facts: SE hopes to maintain 500K subscribers, and SE had about 300 people working on XIV near the end of crunch time. They've probably sunk about $100 million dollars into the remake. Thankfully, they do not have to recoup the cost of 1.0 development to be considered profitable (since the new CEO announced zero line budgeting last spring.)

If they can maintain a base of 500K subscribers for two years, they will break even and start making money (even factoring in operational costs.)

The F2P model relies on having a large customer base with a handful of big spenders ("whales") keeping them afloat. SE has decided they'd rather have a smaller customer base (meaning less infrastructure investment) who pay for access. Paying subscribers tend to be longer term than F2P, which boasts big player bases but higher churn.

I recall hearing that League of Legends has around 5 million unique players a month. If only 10% of them pay money, they're sitting at right about... 500K paying players.

Edited, Sep 19th 2013 10:13am by Catwho
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#65 Jan 07 2014 at 2:11 PM Rating: Default
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We can see over the weekend when it's free to login I guess.

I'll be trying it again, we will see if they have done enough to impress me to come back.
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#66 Jan 07 2014 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
preludes wrote:
We can see over the weekend when it's free to login I guess.

I'll be trying it again, we will see if they have done enough to impress me to come back.


I don't think it matters what they've done and if you're impressed, you'll never admit it and find something to nitpick.
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#67 Jan 07 2014 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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TESO has another beta weekend at the same time. WHO WILL WIN
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FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#68 Jan 07 2014 at 4:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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As a fan of the Elder Scrolls series I cannot express the magnitude of my disappointment with TESO.

Why didn't they just make a real entry into the game with an added co-op feature? I'd love to stomp around the poison marsh as an argonian...but not like this...

Edited, Jan 7th 2014 5:12pm by reptiletim
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#69 Jan 07 2014 at 4:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah they're already predicting that it will be the FFXIV 1.0 of 2014. With EQN and Wildstar nipping at its heals, it needed to be better to have a prayer. Who knows, maybe things will be better this weekend.
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FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
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