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3.5/5 - GameRevolutionFollow

#1 Sep 17 2013 at 3:43 AM Rating: Default
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Actually one of the few fair reviews I've seen, he points out the negatives as well as the positives in the game quite well without going overboard in either direction.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/review/final-fantasy-xiv-a-realm-reborn
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#2 Sep 17 2013 at 4:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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When he complains about quests, i`d love to see any MMO that doesn`t do that "kill x" or "fetch x" formula, its part of the genre by now lol, then he proceeds to complain about the /beckon and /soothe levequests, which are not your usual quests found in MMOs, so he really can't decide himself, does he hate the same old boring quest types or does he not?

basically he reduced the score by 1.5 due to quest complaints which he himself doesn't know what he likes or not, "convoluted" story, i guess thats opinion but story seemed pretty good to me and not really confusing and lastly "few original mechanics", in this case i'd have to agree, this game didn't really improve or create any unique mechanics, but that's fine imho.
#3 Sep 17 2013 at 4:49 AM Rating: Default
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Hah! Pretty accurate review. I see the author hasn't gotten past Titan yet, otherwise he would have mentioned all the nub nubs running around in the big boy dungeons thinking its a contained fate party or something. No offense. I know you guys are trying to have fun too...
#4 Sep 17 2013 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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MitArgento wrote:
When he complains about quests, i`d love to see any MMO that doesn`t do that "kill x" or "fetch x" formula, its part of the genre by now lol, then he proceeds to complain about the /beckon and /soothe levequests, which are not your usual quests found in MMOs, so he really can't decide himself, does he hate the same old boring quest types or does he not?


That isn't a case of indecisiveness. You can't just say that if someone is not a fan of the typical MMO kill and fetch quests, that they must be a fan of absolutely anything else, or else they are indecisive. This isn't a case of one or the other. It's easily possible to like, or in this case, dislike, either or both of them.
#5 Sep 17 2013 at 7:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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I just don't really know what everyone expects besides "fetch quests." What other options are there, really, that XIV doesn't also provide in some limited quantity?

At least the characters in ARR are pretty good about explaining why they want the thing they want.
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#6 Sep 17 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
I just don't really know what everyone expects besides "fetch quests." What other options are there, really, that XIV doesn't also provide in some limited quantity?

At least the characters in ARR are pretty good about explaining why they want the thing they want.

Kill X, Fetch Y, Go To Z, and Defend/Escort Q type quests aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Why people don't expect these in MMOs while simultaneously never offering alternatives, I don't know.

Either way, postin' in another preludes' "XIV sucks!" thread. My bad, "fair review because he dislikes the things I dislike!" thread.
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#7 Sep 17 2013 at 8:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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There are fetch quests? Quests that ask you to kill monsters? If I didn't know better I might think Final Fantasy XIV is an MMO.

Seriously, if you don't want MMO style features, perhaps don't play an MMO. You don't see me reviewing Halo and complaining I have to shoot things.
#8 Sep 17 2013 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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To be fair, one of the things we loved about the Metal Gear Solid series and stuff like it is that while shooting things happened (a lot), your goal was to try to sneak into wherever you were going undetected as long as you could, through any means necessary. (Like strapping on a cardboard box like a turtle.) It's a nice break in the monotony of RPG shooter fare and one reason I think the MGS franchise was so successful.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#9 Sep 17 2013 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent
I love it that of the many reviews I have read so far, a 3.5/5 is the lowest score!

SE really hit a home run with ARR!

Edit: My two Nitpicks with this review:

1) this guy criticizes quests for being too simple, but then says the story is too complicated. Kind of strange... I could see him making one complaint or the other, but I would lean toward quests being too simple while the storyline is delightfully complex for the MMO genre (as any FF title should be).

2) this guy also hasn't realized that you don't need to accept every **** quest you encounter. Through FATES, leves, dungeons and the story, there is no reason to feel like this game is a quest grind. People need to shed their old methods of playing before blaming their boredom on the game, which has plenty of ways to level classes.

Otherwise, good review!

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 7:35am by Thayos
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#10 Sep 17 2013 at 8:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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MMOs are about sustainability. Initial reviews and scores are meaningless.
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#11 Sep 17 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
I just don't really know what everyone expects besides "fetch quests." What other options are there, really, that XIV doesn't also provide in some limited quantity?

At least the characters in ARR are pretty good about explaining why they want the thing they want.


Elder Scrolls Online has supposedly found a way around this problem. I'm not sure how yet, bet they claim they have.
#12 Sep 17 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Default
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MitArgento wrote:
When he complains about quests, i`d love to see any MMO that doesn`t do that "kill x" or "fetch x" formula, its part of the genre by now lol, then he proceeds to complain about the /beckon and /soothe levequests, which are not your usual quests found in MMOs, so he really can't decide himself, does he hate the same old boring quest types or does he not?

basically he reduced the score by 1.5 due to quest complaints which he himself doesn't know what he likes or not, "convoluted" story, i guess thats opinion but story seemed pretty good to me and not really confusing and lastly "few original mechanics", in this case i'd have to agree, this game didn't really improve or create any unique mechanics, but that's fine imho.




FFXIs quests didnt seem like the arbitrary "kill 10 wolves" or "grab 5 sheepskin" quests. SUre there were SOME quests like that (sheepskin, quadav helms., bat fangs/wings) etc etc but i could count on my hands how many fit that description
#13 Sep 17 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Default
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Seriha wrote:
Catwho wrote:
I just don't really know what everyone expects besides "fetch quests." What other options are there, really, that XIV doesn't also provide in some limited quantity?

At least the characters in ARR are pretty good about explaining why they want the thing they want.

Kill X, Fetch Y, Go To Z, and Defend/Escort Q type quests aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Why people don't expect these in MMOs while simultaneously never offering alternatives, I don't know.

Either way, postin' in another preludes' "XIV sucks!" thread. My bad, "fair review because he dislikes the things I dislike!" thread.


I didn't put any spin on it at all, I simply posted a fair review. Simple as that. He is even going to update the score as he plays the endgame content more.

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#14 Sep 17 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
It's actually a good review. It's unfortunate though that he chose to focus on quest grinding, rather than enjoy all the game has to offer as you level.

If he's only made it as far as the first dungeon though, then that would explain why he's done mostly just quests... the quick zip from levels 1 to 15 is kind of like a tutorial.
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#15 Sep 17 2013 at 10:32 AM Rating: Decent
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I like quest grinding. It's too bad I'm gonna run out of them real soon.

I've always preferred Kill X mob over Collect X item.

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 12:37pm by TwilightSkye
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#16 Sep 17 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
MitArgento wrote:
When he complains about quests, i`d love to see any MMO that doesn`t do that "kill x" or "fetch x" formula, its part of the genre by now lol, then he proceeds to complain about the /beckon and /soothe levequests, which are not your usual quests found in MMOs, so he really can't decide himself, does he hate the same old boring quest types or does he not?

basically he reduced the score by 1.5 due to quest complaints which he himself doesn't know what he likes or not, "convoluted" story, i guess thats opinion but story seemed pretty good to me and not really confusing and lastly "few original mechanics", in this case i'd have to agree, this game didn't really improve or create any unique mechanics, but that's fine imho.




FFXIs quests didnt seem like the arbitrary "kill 10 wolves" or "grab 5 sheepskin" quests. SUre there were SOME quests like that (sheepskin, quadav helms., bat fangs/wings) etc etc but i could count on my hands how many fit that description


XI's quests and missions all go more like this:
- Watch movie in city
- Movie character gives you a vague hint to go to a dangerous area
- Go to dangerous area, watch movie
- Movie gives you an item or a key item, with a vague hint to go to another dangerous area
- Go to dangerous area with a party
- Fight a boss

There were some variations of course, but those tended to be more annoying than the "fighting a monster" ones. Near the end of Wings of the Goddess, you had to do a thing down in the Silvermines (instance dungeon area, hey what a concept) where you ran from NPC to NPC to explode bombs, but to prove you weren't a spy you had to have flee on. They'd re-apply flee each time you talked to one, but it only lasted for thirty seconds, which was just barely enough time to run to the next NPC. Except they also had true sight monsters running around. Fortunately, JA flee and powder boots both counted the same as NPC flee - but didn't get the bonus extension from NPCs.

What we ended up doing is having a THF run the entire circuit alone, standing around and waiting in between Flee and powder boot charges, while the other 5 people in the party just killed the mobs since they didn't respawn. Using this method was a guaranteed win, but was clearly a circumvention of what SE wanted us to do.

Developing creative non-fetch quests is easy. But developing such puzzle quests that are actually fun is incredibly difficult, and few games have ever pulled it off successfully.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#17 Sep 17 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
MitArgento wrote:
When he complains about quests, i`d love to see any MMO that doesn`t do that "kill x" or "fetch x" formula, its part of the genre by now lol, then he proceeds to complain about the /beckon and /soothe levequests, which are not your usual quests found in MMOs, so he really can't decide himself, does he hate the same old boring quest types or does he not?

basically he reduced the score by 1.5 due to quest complaints which he himself doesn't know what he likes or not, "convoluted" story, i guess thats opinion but story seemed pretty good to me and not really confusing and lastly "few original mechanics", in this case i'd have to agree, this game didn't really improve or create any unique mechanics, but that's fine imho.

FFXIs quests didnt seem like the arbitrary "kill 10 wolves" or "grab 5 sheepskin" quests. SUre there were SOME quests like that (sheepskin, quadav helms., bat fangs/wings) etc etc but i could count on my hands how many fit that description

Instead of "kill 10 wolves", it was a quest to come back with an R/Ex item that dropped 10% of the time off of some wolves. Some times, you did it in less than 10 kills. Some times, more than 10 kills. Some times, far far far more than 10 kills (think Elshimo Marble).

And there were plenty of the "grab 5 sheepskin" variety too. I remember two starting quests in San d'Oria like that, one that asked for X number of rabbit hides and another that asked for Y number of bat wings.

Without doing a count, I would venture to guess that XIV is going to have far more distinct quests than XI, mainly due to the fact that questing is intended to be a major source of exp in XIV. And because there are so many more, they're going to come across as being less creative and original than the quests in XI.
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#18 Sep 17 2013 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
I just don't really know what everyone expects besides "fetch quests." What other options are there, really, that XIV doesn't also provide in some limited quantity?

At least the characters in ARR are pretty good about explaining why they want the thing they want.


The problem is when people heard "quest progression" everyone figured since it's a Final Fantasy game the quest quality would have been much better than what it is, instead, it's exactly the same generic design in every other MMO since 2004. As for "having a reason", most people just skip through the dialog because let's face it, you want the exp and money/gear much more than you likely care for the dialog, I say you as in general.

Quality > Quantity but the fact they needed enough is why they went with the route every MMO does. It gets boring and old fast. "You killed big bad guy..NOW GO GIVE MY GUARDS PRETZELS! AND TEA!"

So it's not that someone is complaining BECAUSE it's that system, it's because....it's nothing new. SE could have done much, much more with it but the philosophy of this game's design is "end-game is all that matters" and even that is pretty mundane. Even though I was called "negative" and "troll" for saying countless times that SE will probably fall into the "nothing new trap", guess what trap they fell into?

They played it safe and it'll work for them for awhile, now they have to go above and beyond.



Edited, Sep 17th 2013 9:54am by Theonehio
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#19 Sep 17 2013 at 11:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yes, the story is convoluted. And FFXIV is also one of the few MMORPGs that has one at all.
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#20 Sep 17 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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SE could have done much, much more with it...

Basically an example of what I noted in my last post. Something better could allegedly be done, but we're never told what. My question is, what is that exactly and why has no other MMO yet to do it?
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#21 Sep 17 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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basically he reduced the score by 1.5 due to quest complaints which he himself doesn't know what he likes or not, "convoluted" story

I guess the storyline becomes hard to follow around LV30, when all you do is skipping dialogues in order to save time. ^.^/
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#22 Sep 17 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

Elder Scrolls Online has supposedly found a way around this problem. I'm not sure how yet, bet they claim they have.


Well, that's good to hear at least. I had read very early review on it months ago and they were worried as it all sounded too cookie cutter and not up to par with the Elder Scrolls console games. Hope they have innovated since then :)
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#23 Sep 17 2013 at 2:04 PM Rating: Default
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Seriha wrote:
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SE could have done much, much more with it...

Basically an example of what I noted in my last post. Something better could allegedly be done, but we're never told what. My question is, what is that exactly and why has no other MMO yet to do it?


You're asking that question? Why is it every MMO decide to basically be a carbon copy of each other instead of standing on its own? For example people had HUGE hopes for Tera...then it came out and well surprise, aside the battle system everything is the exact same game as every other MMO before it.

It's not a question of why has no other MMO because it's obvious why none have. I'm sure you have enough common sense to realize SE chose to go the safest and done to death route instead of trying something else. I actually read every line of dialogue in this game quest wise, none of it justifies why you're doing x in the grand scheme of things.

You can only have so many iterations of:

"rid my x of y infestation, please."

Before you realize the quests are meaningless in the long run. So you're asking "what" they could have done? It's very simple, if they decide to go the defacto route they could have at least disguised it better instead of it being essentially the same set of quest lines from 2004.

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#24 Sep 17 2013 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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That still doesn't say what a different route is.

"Do something new!" they cry.

But no one has any ideas that are really new or different any more that would work in an MMO. There are some genuinely different RPG game styles they still haven't tried (think of the Tactics 3D chessboard layout, or the Bioshock half FPS design) but which do not lend themselves to an MMORPG format at all.
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#25 Sep 17 2013 at 6:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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There is a virtual plethora of ideas mmos or rpgs could take on doing with quests. Fresh would start out a novelty then be emulated by others so different is only different for so long. Unfortunately not only SE but every other rpg developer is guilty of choosing a format and sticking to a particular type for most of the game rather than drawing from all games before. I don't know if the reason is budget, time, or what factor draws this out but it is what is. Before I share my thoughts again on this subject I just want to point out that I do like ARR, I think the game will do good, it is not an SE exclusive problem, and I doubt it will get fixed. I don't like the quest format SE chose, but either deal with it or move on. This isn't the saga of one person, it's the saga of a whole playerbase.

1.Personality- Character is what makes each interaction feel different. You can do the same thing with various people. And every time it will be a little different. If every person or npc had the exact same personality, it would vary less.

2.Mood- The emotional and contextual feeling behind an activity. Different activities/quest evoke or different emotions. Fear, joy, mysterious, funny, sad,anger, resentment,etc. Quest that do not take you through an emotional roller coaster seem bland and don't feel too different.

3.Setting- Everywhere we look real life or game, we all do most of the same things daily. Yet experiences vary due to whether you are alone, with someone, or with a lot of people. Where and when it happens can also affect how impactful something is. Is it a trivial or mundane quest or is it something vital?

4.Introduction- How you learn about quest. Do you eavesdrop and pick up clues? Does an npc flat out ask you for something? Do you stumble upon a quest as it is happening? Do quest have multiple branches or one root? Do you have to coerce it? Is the quest objective evident like a natural disaster or do you read about it?

5.Mechanics- Does every quest require the same way to be dealt with? Why if everything has an opposite? Kill or save, sicken or heal, deliver or take-away, reward or steal, gather or scatter, fortify or sabotage, follow or escape, love or hate, distract or attract, escort or attack escort, brute force or wits, etc. People with weapons might seem to only focus on the outcome, but they each have different motives and ways to realize their goals.

6.Rewards- Why is the only reward currency, an item, or experience points? What about honor, social standing, love, friends, enemies, alliances, skill bonuses, etc.

I could go on but it will fall on deaf ears, I am not a game designer, and I'm sure game developers are busy enough as it is. The point I was trying to make is there are various shades you could add to each quest to differentiate them. Does every quest have to be unique? No, but most quest shouldn't fall into the 1-2 dimension category. The wheel doesn't have to be re-invented, but use every wheel that has been invented not just three brands or types.

I enjoy the game currently and will play until I no longer enjoy it. But please stop making it seem like SE is the only culprit here guilty of taking the easy route.







#26 Sep 17 2013 at 7:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you don't like quests im not sure you even have business in a mmorpg (even GW2 has them though delivered differently)

Its like going into a corridor shooter game and complaining about chest high walls for cover.

What did you expect?

Why are mmorpgs the only game type where people feel so vocal about changing their foundation into something different? Its kind of unfair for those who like mmorpgs and play them for a lot of the reasons that are not popular to hate on...like long progression...or "grind"...or the fact you cant beat them in a weekend.

Kind of wish people would leave mmorpgs alone in this sense...don't like grind, don't like quests...don't like it taking so long to finish? They got a game for that, its not a mmo rpg...its ok to not like mmorpgs....just wish more would realize that their source of dissatisfaction is in the fact that they are playing game types they don't like or no longer enjoy.

Same thing happened to me with sport games. I just got sick of them. I didn't moan and whine with a mega phone for persistant progression, skills to grind up, XP, quests, capture the flag and mini game...whatever...I just decided "hey not for me anymore" and moved on.

Why are mmorpgs treated so differently?
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