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85/100 Metascore on MetacriticFollow

#52 Sep 19 2013 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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So games that fail will always go F2P, unless they don't.

Got it.

Edited, Sep 19th 2013 4:39pm by Catwho
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#53 Sep 19 2013 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
I really do wonder if gamers have just had enough of the F2P show. The ocean of F2P games we've seen are solid enough at launch, but there's never any substance with expansion content, because developers are more focused on monetizing cash shops.

And GW2, for the sake of this discussion, is F2P. The reason people cry about P2P isn't because of paying for the software, they cry rivers over having to pay subscription fees.

GW2 was F2P/B2P right off the bat... no chance at real, in-depth content. People like me played the core of the game, then stopped, because there was no reason to keep playing. I want real content for progression, not stuff from a cash shop.

I'm so glad FFXIV is P2P, and I'm so glad the dev team is already working hard on an expansion!
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#54preludes, Posted: Sep 19 2013 at 3:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Something you can always bet on with a fanboy, no matter what they say they will change their stance based on what the company does.
#55 Sep 19 2013 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
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I looked on metacritic for the FFXIV score and I see a 49. I get the feeling that anyone who searches for it that doesn't type out the full 'A Realm Reborn' title will see that Smiley: lol
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#56 Sep 19 2013 at 4:08 PM Rating: Default
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Catwho wrote:
If they thought the game could be profitable F2P, they could have renegotiated the contract for that purpose.

They didn't.

Isnt games workshop putting out a warhammer 40k mmo? This could be more on the lines that GW wasnt happy with what mythic/bioware/ea did with the game.
#57 Sep 19 2013 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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It's a game that cost as much as this did will go f2p if they can't keep enough players to be profitable. They need a heck of a lot more players than XI did.


Cool.. so then how much did XIV cost? ARR? How much overhead is there for bills and staff? How much do they need to make per year in order to break even? To show a profit? How much per year do they need in order to put out their first expansion on time?

I'm glad we have someone like you around that knows all that so we can have some real data instead of just blind guesswork. That's super helpful. Cheers, sir.
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#58 Sep 19 2013 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's not F2P just because you say it is, by your logic I can claim FFXIV is F2P since I won't be subscribing and just got my 30 days free out of it.


This is the silliest thing you've said yet!

You obviously didn't play GW2 or pay any attention to the lead-up of that game, either. I bet you don't even know what the game's biggest problems were!
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#59 Sep 19 2013 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I looked on metacritic for the FFXIV score and I see a 49. I get the feeling that anyone who searches for it that doesn't type out the full 'A Realm Reborn' title will see that Smiley: lol


Oh shi-

That...that's interesting XD. Someone who's wondering what all the fuss is about might run into that and be like "wait, THIS is the game that everyone says is the hot thing these days?" I would hope people would read a little more in depth however, and realize they're looking at a product from 3 years ago.
#60 Sep 19 2013 at 5:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Arcari wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I looked on metacritic for the FFXIV score and I see a 49. I get the feeling that anyone who searches for it that doesn't type out the full 'A Realm Reborn' title will see that Smiley: lol


Oh shi-

That...that's interesting XD. Someone who's wondering what all the fuss is about might run into that and be like "wait, THIS is the game that everyone says is the hot thing these days?" I would hope people would read a little more in depth however, and realize they're looking at a product from 3 years ago.

Yeah, if they were trying to market it as a new game they should have changed the name Smiley: frown
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#61 Sep 19 2013 at 5:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Arcari wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I looked on metacritic for the FFXIV score and I see a 49. I get the feeling that anyone who searches for it that doesn't type out the full 'A Realm Reborn' title will see that Smiley: lol


Oh shi-

That...that's interesting XD. Someone who's wondering what all the fuss is about might run into that and be like "wait, THIS is the game that everyone says is the hot thing these days?" I would hope people would read a little more in depth however, and realize they're looking at a product from 3 years ago.

MMorpg.com still has ARR listed with 1.0's score, 5.1/10
#62 Sep 19 2013 at 7:41 PM Rating: Excellent
That's pretty funny, and sad, and reflective of those Web sites.
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#63 Sep 19 2013 at 8:44 PM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
That's pretty funny, and sad, and reflective of those Web sites.


Most people here try to distance 2.0 from 1.0 and are always calling it new. It's actually fitting that they keep them separate. If there were no new metacritic page for XIV your post here would probably have said "65/100 Metascore on Metacritic".


Edited, Sep 19th 2013 10:44pm by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#64 Sep 19 2013 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Most people here try to distance 2.0 from 1.0 and are always calling it new. It's actually fitting that they keep them separate. If there were no new metacritic page for XIV your post here would probably have said "65/100 Metascore on Metacritic".


A Realm Reborn is new. It's basically a sequel in which players of the original version got to transfer over their character data.

The game most certainly deserves a separate meta ranking... to lump it together with the old one would be very arbitrary, considering they are totally different games from the core out.
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#65 Sep 19 2013 at 9:18 PM Rating: Default
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Nice spin man. Actually it's a 3 year old game that was so bad they completely borrowed(read: ripped) ideas from MMOs that worked and 're-released' it.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#66 Sep 19 2013 at 9:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Nice spin man. Actually it's a 3 year old game that was so bad they completely borrowed(read: ripped) ideas from MMOs that worked and 're-released' it.


Look, I'm as resentful about certain parts of ARR as the next borderline-obsessed love/hate SE fanboi, but surely any game that undergoes such an extensive overhaul warrants a different page and subtitle.

The game failed. Porducers switched. It ran for another year. It totally shut down; servers offline. Another year passed. Then it underwent an extensive marketing campaign, and everything from the zones to the story changed. Instances were added; the UI changed; the economy systems were scrapped. It really is quite different from the product of three years ago. The old reviews no longer apply, not at all. Sometimes you really can be just plain McNasty. Smiley: lol


Edited, Sep 19th 2013 11:35pm by KaneKitty
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#67 Sep 19 2013 at 10:02 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Look, I'm as resentful about certain parts of ARR as the next borderline-obsessed love/hate SE fanboi, but surely any game that undergoes such an extensive overhaul warrants a different page and subtitle.


Not trying to be mean, just calling it what it is. I'd call it new myself were it not for the fact that almost everything 'new' about it was taken from something old. It's got a lot of room to grow like anything that makes as many changes as it has and I agree that it deserves a fresh start in terms of how it is reviewed. Calling it new is a bit of a stretch though. Let's call it 'updated'. It's taken a while, but it's about where it should have been back then.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#68 Sep 19 2013 at 10:56 PM Rating: Excellent
No, it's definitely new.

They didn't even take the old game and fix it... they completely wiped the slate clean and started fresh.

To say it's an "update" is even more off base, because the old game wasn't updated... it was completely scrapped. Had they legitimately updated the old game into ARR, then you'd be right, that would be an update (my apologies for sounding like Capt. Obvious, but just not sure how else to explain it).

Instead, they scrapped 1.x and built an entirely new game from the ground up, hence why it is a new game.

Here are the facts:

If you just build on to what you had previously, then your product is "updated." Version 1.2x was updated.

If you scrap something and start over again from scratch, then your product is "new." ARR is new.


Now, let's see you spin that!

Edited, Sep 19th 2013 9:56pm by Thayos
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#69 Sep 19 2013 at 11:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
If you scrap something and start over again from scratch
Depends on how exactly you're defining "from scratch"...
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#70 Sep 19 2013 at 11:35 PM Rating: Excellent
By from scratch, I mean you knock down the house, dig out the foundation, and rebuild everything all over again.

The new game echoes some concepts of the old game, such as the armory system and guild leves, but it's all built from scratch. It's all new. Everything under the hood is different, and everything about how the game plays is different.

As I said earlier, ARR is essentially a sequel of Version 1.x, much like Final Fantasy XIII-2 was a sequel of XIII. XIII-2 borrowed concepts from XIII, such as the battle system, but it was/is a completely separate game. In fact, from a technology standpoint, ARR is probably more different than 1.x than XIII-2 is from XIII.

The decision to keep ARR as part of FFXIV was likely a marketing decision. Calling it FFXIV-2, or FFXV, would have allowed the title of XIV to be known as a complete failure. Instead, 10 years from now, the company and its fans will be able to look back on #XIV with a bit of pride.
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#71 Sep 19 2013 at 11:42 PM Rating: Good
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Reviews come out moment one of a game's launch. If the game isnt stable at launch it will get justifiably bad reviews. Its not the reviewers fault, but SE's.


Most reviewers at this point realize that it takes longer than that to review an MMO effectively.


This is pretty accurate.

Do you really think people will give a crap about server issues if we continue on this route for the next year or so? No. When you go back to read these reviews of the game a year or two out, having a rough launch is not relevant at all.

"Wow! FFXIV had server issues a week after its launch. I think I'm not going to play it now." -An alternate version of you, 2 years in the future who decided not to play FF14 initially

The first thing a reviewer of any MMO should do is repeat what the acronym MMO stands for before beginning the review:

M - Massively; as in a large quantity
M - Multiplayer; as in this isn't a game you plop in your console or install on your desktop and play by yourself
O - Online; as in it requires you to be online to play and relies heavily on servers

If the problems persisted or comes back, then reviewers may criticize all they want. It's a legitimate issue if it persists for longer than 0.01% of a MMO's lifetime. In case you can't do math like many reviewers who comment on irrelevant features, 11 has lasted 11+ years = 4015 days excluding leap years out of 7. WoW would be 0.02%.
#72 Sep 20 2013 at 1:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
By from scratch, I mean you knock down the house, dig out the foundation, and rebuild everything all over again.


That's not what happened. The old story remained a suppressed memory and made way for the new. The graphics engine stayed pretty close to the same, but was watered down to accommodate PS3 and PC users who didn't buy their rig from aliens. The zones are the same name and feel minus the copy pasta. Guildleves are unchanged. FATEs, DF and most other similar game mechanics(including most of the battle system mechanics) are new to XIV, but ripped almost directly from other games. I'll give you that the UI was scrapped, but that alone isn't enough to make the game new(though it feels new when you rid yourself of 30 year old interface).

No spin needed here. Clearly the same game with updated mechanics to make it a more modern feeling MMO.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#73 Sep 20 2013 at 1:53 AM Rating: Excellent
Actually that is what happened.

Graphics engine is all new. Server structure is all new. Maps are all new. Battle system is all new. Way the jobs play is all new. Questing system is all new. Story is all post-calamity. Only small bits of story were reused, in the form of quest lines for getting AF gear.

This is an all new game, built from the ground up. Even more different than fxiii and fxiii-2.
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#74 Sep 20 2013 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Isnt games workshop putting out a warhammer 40k mmo? This could be more on the lines that GW wasnt happy with what mythic/bioware/ea did with the game.


Wasn't this Torpedo'd along with THQ?
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#75preludes, Posted: Sep 20 2013 at 2:58 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It doens't really matter if you want to call it a remake, a fully new game or a cataclysm type expansion.
#76 Sep 20 2013 at 3:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Actually that is what happened.

Graphics engine is all new. Server structure is all new. Maps are all new. Battle system is all new. Way the jobs play is all new. Questing system is all new. Story is all post-calamity. Only small bits of story were reused, in the form of quest lines for getting AF gear.


Brainwash complete.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#77 Sep 20 2013 at 4:01 AM Rating: Good
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I see Filth is trying to still persuade people that this isn't a new game. Smiley: lol Maybe someday, someone will buy it.

preludes wrote:
End of the day what we have here is still rushed


Oh? How?

Quote:
the endgame is mediorcre and badly planned


I assume you have experience to back this up?

Quote:
the world is small due to lack of time to make a proper world


So...you pretty much complained about something then gave a reason to dismiss your complaint. Pretty clever.

I'm counting 17 areas and I'm pretty sure I'm missing some. FFXI had around 26 on initial release?

Problem is, 11's were not as fleshed out as 14s.

Quote:
the leveling system is badly thought out


How? How's your third or fourth job to 50 doing?

Quote:
there is almost no hack/bot/rmt detection systems in place.


Ever see the recent STFU report? Seen much gil spamming in Ul'dah or one of the other main cities over the last few days? Certainly not to the degree it was last week. This implies they are actually working on it.

Quote:
Even free to play games have anti hack software, FFXIV has none and when they add PVP that will make it a joke. Warp hacking is annoying, until you add PVP and then it gives them a massive advantage that they will use and claim lag.


I'm glad you seem to have intricate knowledge about how FFXIV was programmed. Please share!

Quote:
It's like FFXI all over again, hackers and botters being top of the game and SE not caring at all.


Been out less than a month. They've already made huge steps in all the directions you've listed. I think you're just grasping at straws here.

Eh another whiny post from preludes with little merit to it, another day.

Edited, Sep 20th 2013 6:02am by HitomeOfBismarck
#78 Sep 20 2013 at 4:20 AM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
It doens't really matter if you want to call it a remake, a fully new game or a cataclysm type expansion.

End of the day what we have here is still rushed, the endgame is mediorcre and badly planned, the world is small due to lack of time to make a proper world, the leveling system is badly thought out and there is almost no hack/bot/rmt detection systems in place. Even free to play games have anti hack software, FFXIV has none and when they add PVP that will make it a joke. Warp hacking is annoying, until you add PVP and then it gives them a massive advantage that they will use and claim lag.

It's like FFXI all over again, hackers and botters being top of the game and SE not caring at all.

Quote:
Thayos


I await your article in a few months about how f2p is the greatest thing Square ever did and how everything you argued against is actually good! I know it will go f2p and you know it will go f2p, the only reason you are arguing against it now is because you know it's better for the image of the game.

Quote:
Wasn't this Torpedo'd along with THQ?


http://kotaku.com/theres-a-new-warhammer-40k-mmo-in-the-works-512835823

Edited, Sep 20th 2013 5:00am by preludes


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#79 Sep 20 2013 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
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It's as if someone built a new house with new materials, but kept a similar floor plan and similar architectural design elements on the outside.

So, if you're just glancing at the old house and the new house, they look fairly similar. Look, there's the cat girl columns and leve quest style windows and Archeon gabled roof.

But the building material used the first time for the game was not very high grade, and after getting the building inspectors to look at it when the original architects were fired, they decided they could shore up the design for a little while but the entire house had to be bulldozed and rebuilt as it was unstable all the way down to the foundation.

They started with the original architectural plans, but altered them to include the current known best practices for building houses.

The result is a new house made of new materials that echoes the old house that once stood there, but which has a much more solid structure - and will survive having additions in the future.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#80 Sep 20 2013 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Thayos wrote:
By from scratch, I mean you knock down the house, dig out the foundation, and rebuild everything all over again.

The new game echoes some concepts of the old game, such as the armory system and guild leves, but it's all built from scratch. It's all new. Everything under the hood is different, and everything about how the game plays is different.

As I said earlier, ARR is essentially a sequel of Version 1.x, much like Final Fantasy XIII-2 was a sequel of XIII. XIII-2 borrowed concepts from XIII, such as the battle system, but it was/is a completely separate game. In fact, from a technology standpoint, ARR is probably more different than 1.x than XIII-2 is from XIII.

The decision to keep ARR as part of FFXIV was likely a marketing decision. Calling it FFXIV-2, or FFXV, would have allowed the title of XIV to be known as a complete failure. Instead, 10 years from now, the company and its fans will be able to look back on #XIV with a bit of pride.

Now that's what I call spin.
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#81 Sep 20 2013 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

Not trying to be mean, just calling it what it is. I'd call it new myself were it not for the fact that almost everything 'new' about it was taken from something old. It's got a lot of room to grow like anything that makes as many changes as it has and I agree that it deserves a fresh start in terms of how it is reviewed. Calling it new is a bit of a stretch though. Let's call it 'updated'. It's taken a while, but it's about where it should have been back then.


calling it new really isn't a stretch. new enginge, new assets, new writing, new mechanics. Saying that these new features are not new because they are "stolen from other games" (lol) is the flimsiest of cop-outs and I kind of can't believe you felt like that was a valid stance.
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#82 Sep 20 2013 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Shhh, in business we call stealing "adopting known best practices."
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#83 Sep 20 2013 at 8:26 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Now that's what I call spin.


Just because I'm winning this argument doesn't mean I'm spinning.

Facts and logic are powerful weapons, and I wield them like a boss.

Quote:
I await your article in a few months about how f2p is the greatest thing Square ever did and how everything you argued against is actually good!


You should save your next post until after this article comes out. It's just a few months away, so you won't have to wait very long, right? Smiley: wink

Edited, Sep 20th 2013 7:26am by Thayos
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#84 Sep 20 2013 at 11:02 AM Rating: Default
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Isnt games workshop putting out a warhammer 40k mmo? This could be more on the lines that GW wasnt happy with what mythic/bioware/ea did with the game.


Wasn't this Torpedo'd along with THQ?

They gave the IP to someone else, Idr who but yes GW has a warhammer 40k mmo coming out a f2p/p2p hybrid with 3 factions, marines, chaoseldar, and orks (the f2p faction only)

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Edited, Sep 20th 2013 1:11pm by ShadowofaDoubt
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