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Squares original plan.Follow

#1 Sep 21 2013 at 8:03 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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So I don't know if most actually knew the original idea behind Square releasing 2-3 mmos but the plan was to make multiple mmos that all ran alongside each other to give Square a large and profitable MMO division of their company. They couldn't compete with WoW on a single title, so they thought they could have 2-3 running at the same time. Sounds good in theory and indeed it does work for some companies (like Ncsoft etc).

To me, as an MMO player this shows how little experience Square had with the industry and it's players, mainly because of how they decided to do it.

So again, the plan was to run multiple mmos side by side as a means to supercharge some long-term profits into the company (each having its own dedicated development team pushing out content). FFXIV was never seen as a successor to FFXI by Square, they were supposed to run side by side for twice the profits. Now most people that knew the market would know that if they wanted to do that well, it should not of been called FF (direct competition for each other) or they should of done all they could to remove any doubt (not lowering the XI dev team size would of been a good start to that). Making another FF title made it appear a successor and there were all kinds of problems with it being seen that way.

What they actually did was create a competition between their 2 titles (which is of courser the worst possible situation) and turn the FF fans of their 2 titles against each other. They basically made a Gw2 vs WoW type competition between their own 2 titles. Keep in mind that FFXI is still a very profitable game (and very much more before the announcment of Rapture) so damaging your own product with a new one is not something you want to have happen.

They have ofc gained some nonFFXI players from games like War/WoW for XIV but again, ultimately that's what they have managed to do. Canabalise their own players that were already paying them money to play another game (many of whome are now paying them less subscription than they were on FFXI).

Look around the net and you will see XIV players bashing XI on all the XI forums and taking delight in its player loss and you will see XI players hating on XIV and wishing it fail. This isn't good for either game and it's incredibly bad for Square.

Ultimately I don't know what Square can do now, they could end up with less players on the both titles combined than they had on XI at it's peak or they could end up with more players but be paying vastly more on running costs than they were before.

I think this was one of the reasons the leadership of the company was decimated, they took a very profitable arm of the company and greatly damaged it.

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/square-enix-developing-another-mmog-report-6315426



Edited, Sep 21st 2013 10:06am by preludes
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#2 Sep 21 2013 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: rolleyes
#3 Sep 21 2013 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Looks like someone finally discovered the DQ10 MMO.

Edited, Sep 21st 2013 10:33am by lolgaxe
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#4 Sep 21 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I can't wait to read your next blog post. /sarcasm
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#5 Sep 21 2013 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:


They have ofc gained some nonFFXI players from games like War/WoW for XIV but again, ultimately that's what they have managed to do. Canabalise their own players that were already paying them money to play another game (many of whome are now paying them less subscription than they were on FFXI).

Look around the net and you will see XIV players bashing XI on all the XI forums and taking delight in its player loss and you will see XI players hating on XIV and wishing it fail. This isn't good for either game and it's incredibly bad for Square.



Edited, Sep 21st 2013 10:06am by preludes

No, that's you doing that.

For the most part I just skim over what you have to say because every paragraph always falls back to same thing. You haven't made any interesting points, and you don't even bring good arguments. You just keep saying how terrible you THINK the game is and changing how you say it.

The current XI players, I know certainly don't give a crap about FFXIV, or otherwise they'd be over here now. And I don't think anyone here has a problem with XI's fanbase, except for haters like you who don't seem to get a clue and wanna try and pass yourself off as some kind of XI defender, when actually you're making them look bad.

Bah, I'm not even gonna bother with you anymore.
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#6 Sep 21 2013 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Preludes - why do you post a new anti-FFXIV topic every day? Just go away, this forum is for people who enjoy the game. If you don't like it, don't play it. Find something else to do with your time. Its a big world out there.
#7 Sep 21 2013 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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I suspect I'll get labeled as an XI forum invader or whatever, but I've always said this: I'm critical about the game because I care. Fundamentally, this is something I picked up way back in school chasing more artistic endeavors. You present your work to peers, they tell you what you've done wrong. They tell what you've done right. You learn from that and apply it to future endeavors. Now, I spent a significant amount of time playing XI. Even more than preludes if I'm recalling his historical confession properly. I've seen the game when some would argue it was at its best. I've certainly seen it at its worst in the year prior to Abyssea. When I look to XI right now, I don't see a dead game. I see wasted potential.

Why that's the case is rooted in a mix of fact and opinion. On the factual end, we know they're running on a skeleton crew, and with that, likely a bare bones budget. Pair this with the language barrier and we're left with the NA community team maybe, possibly, we don't know conveying our concerns and suggestions to the devs with the proper weight. It's also a fact the game is tremendously burdened with job issues, some rooted in the new ilvl system, others simply in neglect (And people who know/love/hate me will know I'd put RDM in this category). And while as much as some blindly proclaim the community the game's strength, it still suffers to all the usual MMO trappings of elitism and cookie cutter tactics. This point, paired with a diminished population, is why alliance content is not the best place for SE to be focusing their attention right now like they were with Voidwatch, Legion, and Delve. Honorable mention could probably go to the pioneering aspect of Adoulin on the server level, but good luck maintaining any kind of coordination there. While I'll give Matsui props for trying to overcome certain engine limitations, the game is also locked in the fact it'll never seemingly see true instancing or any kind of cross-server content options that other games are using to great effect to get people playing together and progressing their characters.

To me, FFXI can still thrive, but it will not be the same FFXI some saw in the CoP era. That will never be achieved by the game by virtue of its age, reputation, limitations, and competition. This isn't XIV's fault, either. It's people growing older, wiser, and the industry also learning. For XI to persist, it will need better solo and low-man content. It will need to address its job/battle problems and not with vague indefinites. It will need to stop pandering to the hardcore element both in difficulty and reward structures. It will also need to add more content more often. Do that and things will improve much like they did at Abyssea's launch, but they can't get complacent and just assume "loyalty" is enough to keep people around. SE running multiple MMOs isn't XI's problem. It's boredom and frustration.
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#8 Sep 21 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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Seriha, if I could rate you up any harder, I would. That's FFXI in a nutshell right now.
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The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#9 Sep 21 2013 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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bub... your link is dated 2011... think about it ^.~
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#10 Sep 21 2013 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
SE running multiple MMOs isn't XI's problem. It's boredom and frustration.


I agreed with everything except this. We all know that FFXI made more money than any other game in the franchise. It was because of FFXI's profits that FFXIV was commissioned. It's clear SE feels the well is drying up and they've consumed all their money into FFXIV while leaving FFXI with a skeleton crew. By SE running multiple games, they've chosen to be cheap with FFXI which is why we have boredom and frustration. Yoshi did a lot of good stuff with FFXI before he was pulled to save FFXIV. You can't argue this point either, it's why he got the job to replace Tanaka.
#11 Sep 21 2013 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Looks like someone finally discovered the DQ10 MMO.

Edited, Sep 21st 2013 10:33am by lolgaxe



Dairy Queen has an MMO?
#12 Sep 21 2013 at 4:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kierk wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Looks like someone finally discovered the DQ10 MMO.

Edited, Sep 21st 2013 10:33am by lolgaxe



Dairy Queen has an MMO?


Yes. I used to be a SPT there (SplitMaster). However, the latest patch nerfed the banana growing, so now I am basically a 3rd class citizen there. I sold my account to a Sprinkle farmer. Luckily I didn't use my normal name, so no one will really miss me there.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#13 Sep 21 2013 at 8:00 PM Rating: Good
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In all fairness, it was a pretty silly idea. Not for the reasons listed in the OP, but because they split their fanbase. You still have diehard players in XI torn away from their friends who weren't so devoted. I'm not gonna pretend like it'll kill off the company, but the players of both games do suffer a bit.
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#14 Sep 21 2013 at 10:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Seriha wrote:
SE running multiple MMOs isn't XI's problem. It's boredom and frustration.


I agreed with everything except this. We all know that FFXI made more money than any other game in the franchise. It was because of FFXI's profits that FFXIV was commissioned. It's clear SE feels the well is drying up and they've consumed all their money into FFXIV while leaving FFXI with a skeleton crew. By SE running multiple games, they've chosen to be cheap with FFXI which is why we have boredom and frustration. Yoshi did a lot of good stuff with FFXI before he was pulled to save FFXIV. You can't argue this point either, it's why he got the job to replace Tanaka.

Perhaps I should've clarified that the "problem" is on the player end in this case. Those two reasons are pretty much why people opt to leave XI. The specifics may vary, among them a new game like XIV, but in being realistic, finances aren't technically XI's problem. It's how SE's opted to (not) use them toward XI, which does indeed lead to the boredom and frustration for the player. This choice isn't because of XIV, XV, Lightning Returns, anime/music sponsorship, and so on. From here, we risk the vicious cycle where if SE sees people are bored, frustrated, and leaving, then maybe the game isn't worth lobbing more resources toward. I don't agree that any person should just throw their money at an MMO for the long term out of simple faith it'd improve, but even XI's current era of modest communication, some would argue it's not enough or the comments given aren't favorable.

Though, in identifying that cycle, we need to consider when maybe SE "initiated" it. Was it the moment they started on XIV? Did they start XIV because they saw their subs steadily dropping from the old 500k number? Mini add-ons? WotG? There are certainly a number of milestones we could point at and say that maybe that's it, but in the end, @#%^ SE's profits. It's how we the players and customers feel about the product. XI being a cash cow by doing the bare minimum may be nice for their coffers, but it's not for our benefit. And again, that lacking benefit leads to our boredom and frustration. Happy customers will pay.

Edit: I'm feeling this post is a bit fragmented for me and it's totally the result of insufficient sleep. Maybe I'll revisit it later, but this is one of those times where 2 hours sleep isn't working in my favor.

Edited, Sep 22nd 2013 12:04am by Seriha
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#15 Sep 22 2013 at 7:44 AM Rating: Default
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Seriha wrote:

Though, in identifying that cycle, we need to consider when maybe SE "initiated" it. Was it the moment they started on XIV? Did they start XIV because they saw their subs steadily dropping from the old 500k number? Mini add-ons? WotG? There are certainly a number of milestones we could point at and say that maybe that's it, but in the end, @#%^ SE's profits. It's how we the players and customers feel about the product. XI being a cash cow by doing the bare minimum may be nice for their coffers, but it's not for our benefit. And again, that lacking benefit leads to our boredom and frustration. Happy customers will pay.


I don't know why you edited the most important section of your post because that was exactly right.Yoshi was transferred to FFXIV and resources were dropped for FFXI because 1.0 bombed so hard, it almost killed the company and the brand. So FFXI got the shaft and all the content since has been reskins and plug and play. It's obvious what the reason is so I don't understand your circular logic for debating this issue. Sure happy customers will pay, but it's because SE gave up on the platform which led to the bored players. It's not the players fault for 1.0 bombing, that game was terrible. It's not the players fault because they lost their best Producer so he could save a failing game. The way you address this issue seems out of touch.
#16 Sep 22 2013 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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Of course either boredom or frustration causes players to leave FFXI. Are there really any other reasons to leave an MMORPG aside from "Not enough content" and "Unappealing content?" To repel you, either a game doesn't have enough to occupy you, or a game offers things you don't like. The argument is essentially a truism.
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#17 Sep 22 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Seriha, if I could rate you up any harder, I would. That's FFXI in a nutshell right now.


agreed 100%
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#18 Sep 22 2013 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Of course either boredom or frustration causes players to leave FFXI. Are there really any other reasons to leave an MMORPG aside from "Not enough content" and "Unappealing content?" To repel you, either a game doesn't have enough to occupy you, or a game offers things you don't like. The argument is essentially a truism.

I dunno, XI seems to have a cadre of players who believe tolerating crappy content is okay because they have friends around to magically make it better. This may be called "the community" at times when it comes to gravitating XI players to some kind of higher echelon of social grace and maturity, but the truth is a lot of people do hop around to various games over time for reasons related to the Big 2. As well, these "good" people exist elsewhere even though they may really just be people a bit too addicted to their avatars and what they've done with them. Hence another reason to not leave and bemoan other promising games that might steal their friends.
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#19 Sep 22 2013 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Uh, Seriha, that's pretty much every MMO. The community holds people together far better than the content or activities actually in the game. It's not just an FFXI thing. Right now, its definitely most noticeable there because of the amount of content they are pumping out yet not properly supporting.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#20 Sep 22 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not saying it isn't elsewhere, just more the sense "their thing" is better than "the other thing" that comes with it. I just tend to find hypocrisy when people claim the XI community is better than another when I'm more cynically inclined to state people suck everywhere and the good ones tend to go unnoticed by virtue of non-interaction. And while it's no guarantee being a good person will gravitate other good people toward you, being an *** will facilitate a reputation that can lead to things like forum **** lists/player warning threads/etc..
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#21 Sep 22 2013 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Not saying it isn't elsewhere, just more the sense "their thing" is better than "the other thing" that comes with it. I just tend to find hypocrisy when people claim the XI community is better than another when I'm more cynically inclined to state people suck everywhere and the good ones tend to go unnoticed by virtue of non-interaction. And while it's no guarantee being a good person will gravitate other good people toward you, being an *** will facilitate a reputation that can lead to things like forum sh*t lists/player warning threads/etc..

Well FFXI did, in fact, have a better community for a brief time. Because it was so group-based, and the game was catering to a niche audience, there was a time back near its NA PS2 launch where you saw a lot of interaction both on the forums and in-game that is just gone. I actually made several JP friends, given my odd playtimes, as well as finding a great community online. However, like most communities, as it grew, you had users and abusers step in and started polluting the waters.

CoH/CoV is a close second, but was so loosely affiliated, it wasn't quite the same as FFXI, but it also never really went south.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
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