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Titan Party Woes (A set of gear check questions)Follow

#1 Sep 23 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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And, there we go... Rejected from my fifth Titan HM group before even trying the fight.

I am a black mage and prefer spell speed. Smiley: nod The crap they want me to wear will take away from my spell speed in exchange for defense. Smiley: frown

I prefer to slot materia to build to custom proportions that are not significantly worse than the ak and darklight gear.

I have 3 darklight pieces (robe, shield, earrings), ifrit cudgel, and two ak pieces (sash and boots). My gloves and pants are AF but give great spell speed. My rings, bracelet, and choker are all HQ zircon with +4 and +6 spell speed slotted. I have ~3k hp.

My first question, how many more pieces will it take to stop being shunned like the wierd uncle at Christmas?

My second question, why do all of these parties completely ignore slotted crafted gear?

My third question, does anyone realize how much damage a blm can do with a high spell speed stat?

I wish there were ways to solo farm tomes on my own time, so if I needed to grab a drink or go bio I could without angering 7 other ppl who get ****** because my ps3 doesnt load the cutscene fast enough so i can skip it.
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#2 Sep 23 2013 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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Here's the thing: 99% of people will only care that you're wearing AF and decide that you're not gonna work out. Don't bother trying to explain anything to these people, because they won't listen. However, since this is the 99% we're talking about... you'll probably have to bite the bullet and spend a few hours farming tomes for gear to replace the AF.

Knowledgeable players understand that most of the slotted crafted gear is better than DL... but again, they aren't part of the 99%.
#3 Sep 23 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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From what I've been reading, they may not even be looking at your gear specifically. Apparently, anything under 3400 HP and you probably won't survive.

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#4 Sep 23 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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LebargeX wrote:
From what I've been reading, they may not even be looking at your gear specifically. Apparently, anything under 3400 HP and you probably won't survive.



I've been hearing that. Seems odd that there should be such disparaging gear check requirements between HM garuda and titan when the ifrit to garuda transition really wasnt all that bad (basically, get your ifrit weapon).
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#5 Sep 23 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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LebargeX wrote:
From what I've been reading, they may not even be looking at your gear specifically. Apparently, anything under 3400 HP and you probably won't survive.



Interesting tidbit. I'm getting closer to this myself. Good to know, thanks.

As I understand more about what people are trying to accomplish with Materia slotting, at least trying out different combinations, I can understand more why people are resisting the upcoming average gear score number. It just doesn't tell the whole story.

On the hand, if it's just straight you need "x" DEF and "x" HP to survive. Well, unique Materia slotting will have to come after those reqs are met. Seems reasonable.

Still trying to learn more about this.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2013 1:33pm by Gnu
#6 Sep 23 2013 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
From what I've been reading, they may not even be looking at your gear specifically. Apparently, anything under 3400 HP and you probably won't survive.



This.

If you don't have the health, then you're a liability and nothing but an annoyance to the healers. 600-700 up to 8 times in a row is a lot of health, plus Earthen Fury *will* one-shot you if you're too low.

Ifrit is pattern recognition. Garuda is group coordination. The speed of their battles never change, and it's a set pace. Titan is both, but the speed of his attacks increases for each phase he goes through. His music changes three times for a reason.

He's a massive check on group performance, personal performance, and gear.

And no, your weapon doesn't really cut it. Spend the time and get Garuda's.
#7 Sep 23 2013 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
<n00b> Am I missing something? Are there 2 Titan fights? I have a Titan fight that's level 32 in the DF that I just flagged. </n00b>
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#8 Sep 23 2013 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
<n00b> Am I missing something? Are there 2 Titan fights? I have a Titan fight that's level 32 in the DF that I just flagged. </n00b>

Yes, there's also a 8-man Level 50 Hardmode when you finish with the main scenario storyline :)
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#9 Sep 23 2013 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
And, there we go... Rejected from my fifth Titan HM group before even trying the fight.

I am a black mage and prefer spell speed. Smiley: nod The crap they want me to wear will take away from my spell speed in exchange for defense. Smiley: frown

I prefer to slot materia to build to custom proportions that are not significantly worse than the ak and darklight gear.

I have 3 darklight pieces (robe, shield, earrings), ifrit cudgel, and two ak pieces (sash and boots). My gloves and pants are AF but give great spell speed. My rings, bracelet, and choker are all HQ zircon with +4 and +6 spell speed slotted. I have ~3k hp.

My first question, how many more pieces will it take to stop being shunned like the wierd uncle at Christmas?

My second question, why do all of these parties completely ignore slotted crafted gear?

My third question, does anyone realize how much damage a blm can do with a high spell speed stat?

I wish there were ways to solo farm tomes on my own time, so if I needed to grab a drink or go bio I could without angering 7 other ppl who get ****** because my ps3 doesnt load the cutscene fast enough so i can skip it.


I hate to burst your bubble, but testing has revealed that Spell / Skill Speed is near worthless. At least in the proportions available now.

The reason you're probably being rejected is your VIT. You need a minimum of 3k HP to not be a detriment to your healers in Titan, as his stomps are unavoidable, and low hp is a death sentence post-heart phase. This does not mean you should settle for 3k, as 3500ish is preferred.

Get rid of the AF. I don't care what stat is on it, it's garbage and needed to be replaced. You're losing a ton of INT which will do a ton more dmg than any spell speed you could have. The only exception to this skillspeed rule might be monk, with Greased Lightning.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2013 2:20pm by Louiscool
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#10 Sep 23 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
This does not mean you should settle for 3k, as 3500ish is preferred.

Viertel wrote:
600-700 up to 8 times in a row is a lot of health


I'm confused.

700x8 is way, WAY more than 3500.

Maybe this is why people are being really strict on gear requirements... nobody can decide what they really are.

This is the type of fight I would probably opt to not pug in general. Besides dealing with the crazies, your odds of success are going to be much better going in with a coordinated group.
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#11 Sep 23 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
This does not mean you should settle for 3k, as 3500ish is preferred.

Viertel wrote:
600-700 up to 8 times in a row is a lot of health


I'm confused.

700x8 is way, WAY more than 3500.

Maybe this is why people are being really strict on gear requirements... nobody can decide what they really are.

This is the type of fight I would probably opt to not pug in general. Besides dealing with the crazies, your odds of success are going to be much better going in with a coordinated group.


Well, no one can survive the stomps, so you have the healers spam medica 2 through the stomps. It's the only way to survive.

The reason you want more HP is because Medica 2 also grants regen. During the fight, the tank is getting slammed by Mountain Buster, which hits non-tanks for 6k, and good tanks for like 2-3k HP. The healers can't stop and spot cure other people or the tank will die, so if you have more HP as a buffer, it's easier for everyone.

If you played perfectly every time, dodged everything, 3k would be enough. It's just for security.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2013 2:29pm by Louiscool
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#12 Sep 23 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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The more I read about these "High Level Dungeons" (seriously 50 won't be top level for too long).
The more I want to poodle about levelling my crafts and other low level stuff until some patches hit.
FFXI taught me to play the waiting game.
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#13 Sep 23 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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KissMyPixel wrote:
Today's Dramafest is tomorrow's easymode
MMOs taught me that future easy-mode is a whine about lack of assistance.
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#14 Sep 23 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
KissMyPixel wrote:
Today's Dramafest is tomorrow's easymode
MMOs taught me that future easy-mode is a whine about lack of assistance.

And a call for a return to the "good old days" when content was hard and required walking 15 miles in the snow uphill both ways.
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#15 Sep 23 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
KissMyPixel wrote:
Today's Dramafest is tomorrow's easymode
MMOs taught me that future easy-mode is a whine about lack of assistance.

And a call for a return to the "good old days" when content was hard and required walking 15 miles in the snow uphill both ways.

I have my snow boots prepared ^^
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#16 Sep 23 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
KissMyPixel wrote:
Today's Dramafest is tomorrow's easymode
MMOs taught me that future easy-mode is a whine about lack of assistance.

And a call for a return to the "good old days" when content was hard and required walking 15 miles in the snow uphill both ways.


PSSHHHHHHHHHHH!

I already remember when Ifrit HM was Hard! Now it's a joke! I did Ifrit when he wasn't puggable!

lol.
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#17 Sep 23 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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After doing this several times for different people with my BLM who had (at the time) 3100 HP, I simply have to laugh at half of these posts recommending more than 3400 HP. I'm sitting in full DL (minus the head), AF2 body, and my relic yet I'm still at 3450 HP or so. With food, I'd hit the 3.5k that seems to be desired. So are you telling him to get this gear before trying Titan? It isn't necessary and for some very good reasons.

BLM has a great ability called manaward. It actually negates almost all of geocrush's damage. While it doesn't seem to work on earthen fury (more testing needed), I have not once died as a result.

My first attempt was done in full demagoguge and DL accessories with Ifrit's cudgel using raisins.That's right: I didn't even have dark light main pieces yet just demagogue.

Every single parse I'd be on top. Every time we wiped was due to someone running through multiple plumes or getting landslided off and/or bombed. BLM has plenty of tools to survive this fight and we also happen to bring top damage considering we can easily switch from Gaol's and are not as influenced by constant repositioning due to plumes (aka: melee won't always be behind Titan at all times). Make sure you inform the ignorant people that are rejecting you of this fact and perhaps they'll understand.

But probably not.

This doesn't even take into account the fact that I haven't tested multiple abilities of ours on different phases. For instances, tumult seems to be physical-based but I haven't bothered popping manawall on it and haven't had the time to see if manaward negated its damage. If your healers are on point, you shouldn't be dead even after his 10 stomps. They come slowly and are meant to be healed through. The only way you become a liability is if you cannot survive ~5 of them in a row.

I know manawall works on landslide (you'll still get knocked back) but you shouldn't be hit by that to begin with. Point is, survivability was never an issue for me.

Valkayree wrote:
And, there we go... Rejected from my fifth Titan HM group before even trying the fight.

I am a black mage and prefer spell speed. Smiley: nod The crap they want me to wear will take away from my spell speed in exchange for defense. Smiley: frown

I prefer to slot materia to build to custom proportions that are not significantly worse than the ak and darklight gear.

I have 3 darklight pieces (robe, shield, earrings), ifrit cudgel, and two ak pieces (sash and boots). My gloves and pants are AF but give great spell speed. My rings, bracelet, and choker are all HQ zircon with +4 and +6 spell speed slotted. I have ~3k hp.

My first question, how many more pieces will it take to stop being shunned like the wierd uncle at Christmas?

My second question, why do all of these parties completely ignore slotted crafted gear?

My third question, does anyone realize how much damage a blm can do with a high spell speed stat?

I wish there were ways to solo farm tomes on my own time, so if I needed to grab a drink or go bio I could without angering 7 other ppl who get ****** because my ps3 doesnt load the cutscene fast enough so i can skip it.


This fight is a check on several different things:

1) Can your healers heal through tumult's damage without obtaining aggro (WHM)?
2) Can your tank survive for periods where a heal may not be gotten off in time to save him? (WAR and PLD)
3) Can your DPS kill the heart in time?
4) Is everyone intelligent enough to dodge landslide?

Everything else is recoverable from.

Sadly, spell speed is taken out in favor of accuracy in later gear. This is because certain coil fights require around 460 ACC (turn 5). I'm not 100% sure about ADS since I haven't examined the parses too carefully.

If you want to 'not be shunned', just grind the rest of your AF gear out of the way and get some DL accessories. You should be fine after that. If they really want to complain, just pop some VIT % food. You'll maybe gain a grand total of 100 HP. But you know? You're already dealing with unreasonable people.

At this point, people are so desperate to down Titan that they blame things that aren't actually the cause of the problem. After 40+ Titan runs (and many, many wipes), I can tell you that the major culprit of wipes is people not getting out of the way of sh*t. It's as simple as that.

And you know, Valk, I've written a guide on the three primals for BLM including recommended gear. Maybe go check it out?

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=292

If you have BLM problems, consult the BLMs and not the general forum. :(

Random Titan parse:

http://i.imgur.com/nRGQhph.png

Edited, Sep 24th 2013 3:34am by HitomeOfBismarck
#18 Sep 23 2013 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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I think you are right Hitome, but honestly I think some people that PUG it and are desperate to win just want to try and maximize their chances and since you can't measure skill, which is the most important, without seeing people in action they just go for the next thing, meaning equipment.

Generally you can always make your own group and decide for yourself where you want to draw the line though.
#19 Sep 23 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
After doing this several times for different people with my BLM who had (at the time) 3100 HP, I simply have to laugh at half of these posts recommending more than 3400 HP.

BLM has a great ability called manaward. It actually negates almost all of geocrush's damage. While it doesn't seem to work on earthen fury, I have not once died as a result.

My first attempt was done in full demagoguge and DL accessories with Ifrit's cudgel using raisins.That's right: I didn't even have dark light main pieces yet just demagogue.


Which is fine if you play perfectly. You should know as well as I do, MOST people do not play perfectly. I only suggested more DL, because you might as well start building DL while you wait to kill Titan. Any improvements over AK gear will only improve your chances of killing Titan.

That said, a full AK gear party can kill Titan, if they know what they are doing. ****, you could do it in AF if you can dodge and your healers can heal.

Quote:


You did 16k dmg and beat Titan? You sure?

My latest titan win:

http://i.imgur.com/E06yHHX.jpg

Titan has slightly more dmg/hp than your parse suggests.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2013 4:13pm by Louiscool
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#20 Sep 23 2013 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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I fail to see why anyone would attempt a HM with a pug group. That's asking for trouble. You'll not only run into picky players, but you won't have proper coordination, say if you were to make your own group of 8.
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#21 Sep 23 2013 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Ifrit is pretty easily and reliably pugged; in time the others will be as well.
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#22 Sep 23 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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to the OP, what gear exactly are you melding with materia? If it's the item level 50 gear, you most certainly aren't geared enough to be fighting him.

if your melding the item level 70 gear (in your case the vanya set), then people shouldnt be complaining about your gear.
the item level 50 gear, even melded, isn't better than darklight. that defense and health boost matters just as much as your other stats.

i don't think the issue is people not wanting to try, but not wanting to try with a dissadvantage. Titan is no joke, he is difficult. I am all for trying things before assuming things won't work out, but titan was designed to be fought against people who have upgraded their gear to the correct tier. If people are trying to scrape by with what they have it probably won't work out. Just take the time to get the gear you need and try again.

I think the difficulty of the earlier dungeons spoiled people into thinking gear isn't that important. Then when they get to the gear checked content they go wut?
#23 Sep 23 2013 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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ImmolatedHope wrote:
I fail to see why anyone would attempt a HM with a pug group. That's asking for trouble. You'll not only run into picky players, but you won't have proper coordination, say if you were to make your own group of 8.


Ifrit and Garuda are now puggable and Titan is best practiced in a DF pug.
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#24 Sep 23 2013 at 3:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
KissMyPixel wrote:
Today's Dramafest is tomorrow's easymode
MMOs taught me that future easy-mode is a whine about lack of assistance.

And a call for a return to the "good old days" when content was hard and required walking 15 miles in the snow uphill both ways.


Back in my day the Dead Sea was just sick!
#25 Sep 24 2013 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Valkayree wrote:
And I would totally be all over garuda battle, but pugs are simply a waste of time in that fight and my FC is either before ifrit or on/after titan. No one is doing Garuda or I would. Also seems like getting a Garuda party together in Mor Dhona is time sink. Most parties are for chimera, hydra, titan, FATES, or speed cm / prae runs.


Turns out that Jy was running a bunch of Garuda last night. It is nice to party with a scholar who knows how to throw a bubble. Ran a bunch of them, no luck on the drop, but learned that latency can really affect the battle. One time Garuda totally disappeared mid-battle. The same fight I dropped the lb on the third set of adds (I saw them, btu not garuda) and then mid cast they happily skipped off to the right through the tornadoes into the sunset and didnt get hit. Not sure if that was due to latency or something else but I caught the blame nonetheless. Didnt happen again, but it was wierd.

Edited, Sep 25th 2013 11:55am by Valkayree
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#26 Sep 24 2013 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
to the OP, what gear exactly are you melding with materia? If it's the item level 50 gear, you most certainly aren't geared enough to be fighting him.

if your melding the item level 70 gear (in your case the vanya set), then people shouldnt be complaining about your gear.
the item level 50 gear, even melded, isn't better than darklight. that defense and health boost matters just as much as your other stats.

i don't think the issue is people not wanting to try, but not wanting to try with a dissadvantage. Titan is no joke, he is difficult. I am all for trying things before assuming things won't work out, but titan was designed to be fought against people who have upgraded their gear to the correct tier. If people are trying to scrape by with what they have it probably won't work out. Just take the time to get the gear you need and try again.

I think the difficulty of the earlier dungeons spoiled people into thinking gear isn't that important. Then when they get to the gear checked content they go wut?


That's true. I was slotting zircon hq, the best I can get that isn't 2 star crafted (which i can just get the darklight cheaper). Gives +6 int and slotted gives +4-+6 spell speed. I realize that I can do better, but the darklight give +9 int and +9 spell speed and the AK demagogue stuf gives +8. Is +2-+3 really making the difference? I think it is more the lack of def on the AF gear like Louiscool is talking about. I was in conflict with upgrading off of the AF pants and gloves because it would basically serve the function of giving a mage plate armor (since i would lose a ton of spell speed to gain more defense). I also think that it was fighting ifrit < titan < garuda in story mode where titan was the middle man and then going to HM and battling an easy ifrit ( I never die on ifrit HM), and then a slightly harder garuda with no upgrade in gear and then all of a sudden go to titan and be flabberghasted at your lack of gear that just discourages anyone who tries for the first time.

Edited, Sep 24th 2013 9:26am by Valkayree
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