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Titan Party Woes (A set of gear check questions)Follow

#27 Sep 24 2013 at 8:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:


You did 16k dmg and beat Titan? You sure?

My latest titan win:

http://i.imgur.com/E06yHHX.jpg

Titan has slightly more dmg/hp than your parse suggests.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2013 4:13pm by Louiscool


That DPS warrior is a pro Smiley: grin
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#28 Sep 24 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:


And you know, Valk, I've written a guide on the three primals for BLM including recommended gear. Maybe go check it out?

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=292

If you have BLM problems, consult the BLMs and not the general forum. :(

Random Titan parse:

http://i.imgur.com/nRGQhph.png

Edited, Sep 24th 2013 3:34am by HitomeOfBismarck


Thanks Hitome, good advice.
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#29 Sep 24 2013 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Everything short of the coil is doable in AF. Despite what the general public seems to think. Better gear basically helps alleviate skill. And so, when people say you need better gear, they are just saying they expect you to completely suck. It's fine. Just learn your job better than them, and know when and how to do what you need to do. It takes trial and error, and in time, you can handle whatever is thrown at you.

As for Titan, that stage was actually the perfect (and so far the only one that I am aware of that is truly perfect) for the tank Limit break. Though people do not like to use anything that does not add to the damage pool. And again, I can respect that, and understand it.

But then again, that is why I am going to go 100% darklight free. Don't care how long it takes, but I will tank in HDS. Simply because of the mentality behind darklight and the perceptions related to it.
#30 Sep 24 2013 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
After doing this several times for different people with my BLM who had (at the time) 3100 HP, I simply have to laugh at half of these posts recommending more than 3400 HP. I'm sitting in full DL (minus the head), AF2 body, and my relic yet I'm still at 3450 HP or so. With food, I'd hit the 3.5k that seems to be desired. So are you telling him to get this gear before trying Titan? It isn't necessary and for some very good reasons.

BLM has a great ability called manaward. It actually negates almost all of geocrush's damage. While it doesn't seem to work on earthen fury (more testing needed), I have not once died as a result.

My first attempt was done in full demagoguge and DL accessories with Ifrit's cudgel using raisins.That's right: I didn't even have dark light main pieces yet just demagogue.

...
[/sm][/i]


QFT. My successes in Titan were along much the same lines as your initial attempt. Partial DL (by way of accessories) and Ifrit's cudgel + AK Demagogue set. Was more than enough. I threw in two HQ Amber rings with Determination/INT materia slotted for good measure. HP sitting up around 3.5. It's lower by a bit now that I swapped in zero VIT rings but w/e. It's my humble opinion that you can live through that fight if you're HP is between 3 - 3.5. If you're healer isn't healing you you're obviously going to die, no two ways about it.

The bare minimum is often lower than advertised for things.
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#31 Sep 24 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
Everything short of the coil is doable in AF. Despite what the general public seems to think. Better gear basically helps alleviate skill. And so, when people say you need better gear, they are just saying they expect you to completely suck. It's fine. Just learn your job better than them, and know when and how to do what you need to do. It takes trial and error, and in time, you can handle whatever is thrown at you.

As for Titan, that stage was actually the perfect (and so far the only one that I am aware of that is truly perfect) for the tank Limit break. Though people do not like to use anything that does not add to the damage pool. And again, I can respect that, and understand it.

But then again, that is why I am going to go 100% darklight free. Don't care how long it takes, but I will tank in HDS. Simply because of the mentality behind darklight and the perceptions related to it.


Oh you rebel. Such a BA. Pardon me if I don't suggest people take your advice, as you state things as if the yare fact and then imply that you have not yet even fought Titan, as you are still amassing your collection of rebellious 2 star items to prove you are a delicate snowflake that marches to your own drum and takes the path less traveled.

Don't worry, by the time you finish your collection, Titan will be a joke because everyone else will have full darklight and relics and farming him just for titan weapons, and you can piggyback on them in Duty Finder in full af and come back here to tell us how easy it was.

Edited, Sep 24th 2013 12:09pm by Louiscool
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#32 Sep 24 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
But then again, that is why I am going to go 100% darklight free.


I'm looking forward in seeing a fully documented video of everyone on the team using sub-70 gear and taking down Titan HM.
#33 Sep 24 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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rubina wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
But then again, that is why I am going to go 100% darklight free.


I'm looking forward in seeing a fully documented video of everyone on the team using sub-70 gear and taking down Titan HM.



The two star recipes are ilvl 70,
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#34 Sep 24 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:
Simply because of the mentality behind darklight and the perceptions related to it.



mentality? perceptions? its gear. ilvl70 gear. and pretty easy to get, with some patience. that's it. the rest is what you bring to it.
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#35 Sep 24 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
Simply because of the mentality behind darklight and the perceptions related to it.



mentality? perceptions? its gear. ilvl70 gear. and pretty easy to get, with some patience. that's it. the rest is what you bring to it.


Yeah, I was confused too. It's there to be easily obtainable loot for steady and measured progress. That's all. It's good gear.
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#36 Sep 24 2013 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't know about all this "wearing gear" mentality. It smacks of elitism. If I want to go to Titan in my bathing suit for fun with friends so we can laugh and who cares if we win then we should be able to. All you people claiming that fights require "things" like "gear" and "weapons" are just ruining immersion with your evil min/maxing elitist propaganda. This game is about funness, not gearness. If I want to DF for Titan while wearing AF with low HP the group should welcome me and help me through it even if I die and they need to do most of the fight without me, because otherwise they're elitist monsters from space who feed on the brains of nice people who just want to run content regardless of what that content requires for any reasonable chance of success, and this is just wrong.



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#37 Sep 24 2013 at 11:02 AM Rating: Default
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Furiousnixon wrote:
I don't know about all this "wearing gear" mentality. It smacks of elitism.


Smiley: rolleyes

Yes, because character progression, the entire point of every single RPG in existence, is elitism. That's one of the more stupid statements I've heard in this thread. Go take your friends and take on Titan if you wish in your bathing suit; just stay the **** out of groups that actually want to kill him and wasting their time.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
My BLM apparently got carried!


That's what your post boils down to. Secondly, the threshold of 3,400 health is considered a bare minimum for brand new groups.

Brand. New. Groups.

Has that sunk in yet? It was rough estimate based on the average healing from 2 healers with Garuda weapons going against Titan and the fight lasting long enough to get to 8 stomps. If you're running with people that have already killed him (underlined part here) then your threshold is lower because those healers more than likely HAVE their relic (or Allagan or +1 Relic) and the bonus to healing compensates for your lack of gearing.

Frankly, if you can't be bothered to actually go after Darklight gear for Titan that just shows not only laziness but a disregard for whoever you're grouping with because they have to pick up YOUR slack.

Titan is a mechanics fight and a gear check. Trying to deny it when you admitted to being carried means nothing.

#38 Sep 24 2013 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
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After doing this several times for different people with my BLM who had (at the time) 3100 HP, I simply have to laugh at half of these posts recommending more than 3400 HP.

BLM has a great ability called manaward. It actually negates almost all of geocrush's damage. While it doesn't seem to work on earthen fury, I have not once died as a result.

My first attempt was done in full demagoguge and DL accessories with Ifrit's cudgel using raisins.That's right: I didn't even have dark light main pieces yet just demagogue.


Which is fine if you play perfectly. You should know as well as I do, MOST people do not play perfectly. I only suggested more DL, because you might as well start building DL while you wait to kill Titan. Any improvements over AK gear will only improve your chances of killing Titan.

That said, a full AK gear party can kill Titan, if they know what they are doing. ****, you could do it in AF if you can dodge and your healers can heal.


Unfortunately, that isn't what I was referring to.

This is:

Louiscool wrote:
You need a minimum of 3k HP to not be a detriment to your healers in Titan, as his stomps are unavoidable, and low hp is a death sentence post-heart phase. This does not mean you should settle for 3k, as 3500ish is preferred.


Along with all the other inaccuracies you and others have posted:

Quote:
From what I've been reading, they may not even be looking at your gear specifically. Apparently, anything under 3400 HP and you probably won't survive.


Quote:
This.

If you don't have the health, then you're a liability and nothing but an annoyance to the healers. 600-700 up to 8 times in a row is a lot of health, plus Earthen Fury *will* one-shot you if you're too low.

He's a massive check on group performance, personal performance, and gear.

And no, your weapon doesn't really cut it. Spend the time and get Garuda's.


Contradiction to yourself:
Quote:
Well, no one can survive the stomps, so you have the healers spam medica 2 through the stomps. It's the only way to survive.


You recommended an amount of HP that BLM really shouldn't be expected to have outside of relic and AF2 + darklight mix plus you neglected some of BLM's damage reduction mechanics that make Titan a non-issue in terms of survivability. Tumult's damage is not instantaneous. Your healers will be spamming AoE heals during the tumult stomps. Medica 2 takes 3.5 seconds to cast without spell speed meaning you have to somehow survive 600*3 damage done to you during that time. Everyone in the game can do so. Spike damage, if your healers are slow, ranges towards 2.4k. Again, everyone can handle that. No level 50 has lower than that.

The only HP concern is that of the tank during phase 3.

Louiscool wrote:
Quote:
Latest Titan win Random Titan parse:

http://i.imgur.com/nRGQhph.png


You did 16k dmg and beat Titan? You sure?

My latest titan win:

http://i.imgur.com/E06yHHX.jpg

Titan has slightly more dmg/hp than your parse suggests.


I actually reviewed the parse earlier this morning only to realize what you just did. I don't know where that one came from. It's labeled TitanParse in my logs. :3 Moreover, I can't seem to find any of my Titan fights: only Caduceus and onward. I'll have to get fresh data while you gather fresh information~
#39 Sep 24 2013 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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From what i have been reading and lookong at, it seems that you can get great gear by farming tomes for the darklight gear or use the tomes for mats for the ilvl 70 crafted gear, i find it pretty neat you have 2 options for good gear. I know ill be working for the HQ rose gold jewelry and darksteel heavy armor!
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#40 Sep 24 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
Quick question...I haven't even gone through the story yet, so I haven't started any endgame. Obtaining gear to get through the hardmode primals involves running CM and what not from what I've gathered. Are people running those being asshats about gear too? Kind of like FFXI, you need gear FROM this to do this run (which makes no sense, ever)?
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#41 Sep 24 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Quick question...I haven't even gone through the story yet, so I haven't started any endgame. Obtaining gear to get through the hardmode primals involves running CM and what not from what I've gathered. Are people running those being asshats about gear too? Kind of like FFXI, you need gear FROM this to do this run (which makes no sense, ever)?

While it's technically a story dungeon and not for endgame progression, there's a reasonably good chance people will ***** at you if you dont have several pieces of DarkLight gear or atleast an Ifrit's weapon from the HM Ifrit fight, yeah...

It happens. Can easily be done in your Artifact gear really, the difficulty is trivial. But yeah, there will always be some people that require you to have the drops of the fight you're doing.
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#42 Sep 24 2013 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Quick question...I haven't even gone through the story yet, so I haven't started any endgame. Obtaining gear to get through the hardmode primals involves running CM and what not from what I've gathered. Are people running those being asshats about gear too? Kind of like FFXI, you need gear FROM this to do this run (which makes no sense, ever)?


never once seen anyone complain about anyone's gear when i was running CM quite a bit amassing phil tomes. DF groups in general have been way better than most people think in my experience, at least in terms of the elitism thing. I've seen far more gear-snubbing and the like in local server groups tbh. kinda sad, but it'd be sad either way.
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#43 Sep 24 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
never once seen anyone complain about anyone's gear when i was running CM quite a bit amassing phil tomes. DF groups in general have been way better than most people think in my experience, at least in terms of the elitism thing. I've seen far more gear-snubbing and the like in local server groups tbh. kinda sad, but it'd be sad either way.


It's human nature to remember and magnify negative experiences. It's a hardwired survival skill that keeps us from making mistakes more than once (most of the time).

In fact I doubt there are enough mouth-foamers out there to legitimately be in EVERY DF group. But you'll tend to remember them that way because biology.
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#44 Sep 24 2013 at 11:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm a PLD and I was rejected out of a party based on my gear. I wasn't invited to try with the FC cause, 1 tank only fight. I shouted for 2-3 hours to be given the chance to try. I want to try, I want to experience, I want to learn. But I was not given the chance to do so. The person that tanked for the FC group ended up paying another group for the win. Let me tank it then.
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#45 Sep 24 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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IMFW wrote:
rubina wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
But then again, that is why I am going to go 100% darklight free.


I'm looking forward in seeing a fully documented video of everyone on the team using sub-70 gear and taking down Titan HM.



The two star recipes are ilvl 70,

Exactly. Me and a few other FC members are going for crafted gear rather than DL.
#46 Sep 24 2013 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
IMFW wrote:
rubina wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
But then again, that is why I am going to go 100% darklight free.


I'm looking forward in seeing a fully documented video of everyone on the team using sub-70 gear and taking down Titan HM.



The two star recipes are ilvl 70,

Exactly. Me and a few other FC members are going for crafted gear rather than DL.



Nice thats what my FC are doing, we got all the bases covered!
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#47 Sep 24 2013 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You recommended an amount of HP that BLM really shouldn't be expected to have outside of relic and AF2 + darklight mix plus you neglected some of BLM's damage reduction mechanics that make Titan a non-issue in terms of survivability. Tumult's damage is not instantaneous. Your healers will be spamming AoE heals during the tumult stomps. Medica 2 takes 3.5 seconds to cast without spell speed meaning you have to somehow survive 600*3 damage done to you during that time. Everyone in the game can do so. Spike damage, if your healers are slow, ranges towards 2.4k. Again, everyone can handle that. No level 50 has lower than that.

The only HP concern is that of the tank during phase 3.


During these stomps, you also have to worry about curing the tank. If the tank isn't at FULL hp, the mountain buster that follows will surely kill him. Then you have the almost GARAUNTEED chance that someone, somewhere, will get hit by a weight or a bomb and need a few spot cures to full HP.

Now, if someone happens to take a weight, you can give them a cure and a regen because ideally they won't be 1 stomp away from death.

And I think you mean phase 4? Technically 5 if you count heart phase.

All we're saying is that more HP is better, why would you disagree with this? I can garauntee no one will walk into titan and be a pro. With the suggestions of more hp, you are given more leeway to mess up and not die.

Edited, Sep 24th 2013 2:45pm by Louiscool
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#48 Sep 24 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Default
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Hey Valk, hows it going ?

I think we did ok with the fight. The people we've picked up in PUG are nearly always the weakest link.

I'm looking for help with this fight so I can help get the FC through it; I made a thread about it here:

LFM - Titan, on Ultros
#49 Sep 24 2013 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
never once seen anyone complain about anyone's gear when i was running CM quite a bit amassing phil tomes. DF groups in general have been way better than most people think in my experience, at least in terms of the elitism thing. I've seen far more gear-snubbing and the like in local server groups tbh. kinda sad, but it'd be sad either way.


It's human nature to remember and magnify negative experiences. It's a hardwired survival skill that keeps us from making mistakes more than once (most of the time).

In fact I doubt there are enough mouth-foamers out there to legitimately be in EVERY DF group. But you'll tend to remember them that way because biology.


i reject biology and replace it with intangible consciousness!
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#50 Sep 24 2013 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
Everything short of the coil is doable in AF. Despite what the general public seems to think. Better gear basically helps alleviate skill. And so, when people say you need better gear, they are just saying they expect you to completely suck. It's fine. Just learn your job better than them, and know when and how to do what you need to do. It takes trial and error, and in time, you can handle whatever is thrown at you.

As for Titan, that stage was actually the perfect (and so far the only one that I am aware of that is truly perfect) for the tank Limit break. Though people do not like to use anything that does not add to the damage pool. And again, I can respect that, and understand it.

But then again, that is why I am going to go 100% darklight free. Don't care how long it takes, but I will tank in HDS. Simply because of the mentality behind darklight and the perceptions related to it.


Get darklight because it looks cool, not because some **** told you to.
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#51 Sep 24 2013 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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MasterShake wrote:
Hey Valk, hows it going ?

I think we did ok with the fight. The people we've picked up in PUG are nearly always the weakest link.

I'm looking for help with this fight so I can help get the FC through it; I made a thread about it here:

LFM - Titan, on Ultros


Goin good Shake, just posting during my very little free time I have at work. Heard titan will be nerfed anyway in 2.1, so I might just take it casual until november. Still, I know now that I can survive the battle, so I'm not afraid of him anymore.
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