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Suspended Users Over CraftingFollow

#1 Sep 27 2013 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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To clarify, it's, in theory; to "people who have sold to people who have bought gil", or in other words, completely innocent people who are only using in game systems to craft and make money. They are not aiming for gil buyers.

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To preface, I have earned upwards of eight figures since launch but have not bought a penny from RMT, which I generally detest. I have done my part to report bots and gilspammers, and I have made all of my gil from selling items on the market and through /sh, often before they were available from other crafters - specifically HQ electrum gear during the first week, and HQ 2-star jewelry most recently.

In an e-mail I received this morning, Square Enix notified me that:

Specifically, you have violated following Section(s) of the FINAL FANTASY XIV User Agreement.
SQUARE ENIX ACCOUNT TERMS OF USE 1. Registered Users Use of the Website or Services is limited to those satisfying the following conditions: (b)You represent and warrant that you will not use the Website or Services in any manner that is in violation of this Agreement or of any applicable law or regulation;
FINAL FANTASY XIV User Agreement 2.1 Cheatingand Botting. You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats,bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software orhardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may nottake advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay. 2.2 Real Money Trading, Farming and Power-Leveling. You may not sell,purchase or exchange for real-world money or value any in-game currency,accounts, characters, in-game services, or in-game virtual items. Youmay not play the Game for the purpose of acquiring virtual items or advancement in game play on behalf of a third-party or for the purpose of selling any virtual assets to a third party for real-world money, specifically including $B!H (Bgold-farming $B!I (Band power-leveling services.

I do not know if any of my gil has been removed, but I do know that I am suspended without cause. I have sold about half of my goods on the market, and the other half directly to players who contacted me to buy. At no point was I informed or given any evidence that these players were buying their gil or participating in RMT. I will update when I have more information available.

TL;DR: If you are making large sums of money legitimately, you may still eligible for a suspension if your customers bought gil.


I am usually pretty **** supportive of SE, but I find this pretty ridiculous.

Comments to follow have multiple suspended users confirming they have been struck by this also.

Edited, Sep 27th 2013 1:21pm by Ryklin
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#2 Sep 27 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Hmmm.

I guess, don't sell directly to other players? SE wants you to use the market wards, and it seems circumventing them for any reason is, to SE, grounds for investigation and probably cause of RMT activities.
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#3 Sep 27 2013 at 12:24 PM Rating: Default
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Sounds like you made your 8 figures off of gold buyers, a ban might be harsh. But it might be too late for them to repo your gil and everything you influenced by it, thus the ban. All I can say is you should have questioned who had the 1 million gil to buy your overpriced by a mile gear.
#4 Sep 27 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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Well, it wasn't me, and I am not banned, was just sharing the story. But good job with the accusations!

PS, welcome to my ignore list. I will totally miss your garbage posts where you have no idea what you're talking about.

Edited, Sep 27th 2013 1:27pm by Ryklin
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#5 Sep 27 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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He's really only guessing as to the exact cause of his suspension if he is indeed innocent. They may have reason to believe he was botting.
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#6 Sep 27 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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All I can say is you should have questioned who had the 1 million gil to buy your overpriced by a mile gear.


probably he was on legacy server, meaning that your above statement is pretty dumb. actually, it would be dumb regardless, making it about on the same level as every other post of yours to date.



Edited, Sep 27th 2013 2:29pm by Llester
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#7 Sep 27 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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And this is why I don't craft.

I kid!
It's really because I'm lazy
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#8 Sep 27 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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purethulium wrote:
He's really only guessing as to the exact cause of his suspension if he is indeed innocent. They may have reason to believe he was botting.


That may be, but I figured it was worth showing to the community. The comments seem to lead towards he's legit, but either way it's better to be aware of these things in case that is in fact what is happening.

Edited, Sep 27th 2013 1:30pm by Ryklin
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#9 Sep 27 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Default
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Like I jhave stated before the onus is on them to prove innocence. A lot of people in prison claim they were innocent, but the facts say otherwise. SE had its reason, and likely a valid one why this happened.
#10 Sep 27 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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you really are just a simple creature
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#11 Sep 27 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Like I jhave stated before the onus is on them to prove innocence. A lot of people in prison claim they were innocent, but the facts say otherwise. SE had its reason, and likely a valid one why this happened.


LOL

Guilty until proven innocent huh? Smiley: dubious
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#12 Sep 27 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Default
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Pickins wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Like I jhave stated before the onus is on them to prove innocence. A lot of people in prison claim they were innocent, but the facts say otherwise. SE had its reason, and likely a valid one why this happened.


LOL

Guilty until proven innocent huh? Smiley: dubious

When it comes to private companies its always been that way.
#13 Sep 27 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just recently started crafting and now because of this, I am only going to sell directly through the market board, good job SE, you've scared me into submission.

EDIT: to those, not many, saying that SE is doing this because they have proof and that the person has violated bla bla bla agreement, then they should state when and where said violate happened. IF someone did violate a rule accidentally and didn't know it, they how do they expect people not to do it again.

Edited, Sep 27th 2013 3:18pm by RyanSquires
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#14 Sep 27 2013 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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Wouldn't it be terrifically ironic and horribly delightful if Shadowofadoubt got banned for something like this and he was completely "innocent," too?

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#15 Sep 27 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Default
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papajay wrote:
Wouldn't it be terrifically ironic and horribly delightful if Shadowofadoubt got banned for something like this and he was completely "innocent," too?


Won't ever happen, as I dont buy/sell gil/bot/hack, like those caught and crying.
#16 Sep 27 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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I don't have to worry about this because I've avoided selling/buying to/from the AH for a while now. Besides, low level crafts haven't been worth selling from what I've seen.
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#17 Sep 27 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just a update on the guys situation:

"Edit2: I just got off the phone with support. The support fellow (very helpful) let me know that the account is banned for 72 hours for RMT investigation. He put me on hold for a few minutes and came back to let me know that his colleagues are all dealing with calls about this as well - his best guess is that they blanket banned folks with a lot of gil and will be figuring out which are RMT and which aren't. This is a terrible way of going about this, but it's better than directly being banned for the titular reason."
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#18 Sep 27 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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This really is a topic that should be carefully investigated. A good friend in ZAM, Lucia was hacked a few weeks ago and we all knew that there was no funny business going on, but no action has been taken to unban the account. So, based on my own personal experiences with private companies, I have to agree with Shadowofadoubt that in many private companies, guilty unless proven innocent is the standard. I used to work for a company that let people go they suspected of stealing, even though no money was gone and no evidence was presented.

But on the other hand, eight figures is a really large sum of gil. Legacy server yes, but SE probably has a running tally of who holds the money and who does not. They see these transactions, and likely the folks that were dealing with him were RMT (even if he was unwittingly a participant). From my understanding, it is that under the table transaction that SE is focused on. Passing large sums of gil across the moogle delivery or through face to face trades probably raises a red flag, especially early on when 99.9% of folks arent at that level.

So it all depends on the #1 unknown factor: Exactly how much does SE know, and how much of that is correct? We are not going to get those answers so we should probably all keep our noses clean and stick to the grind.
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#19 Sep 27 2013 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I dont have alot of gil, but i have been selling low level quint materia attached staffs for 100k each, should i be worried? I sold a level 20 staff for 100k should i worry about why a level 20 would have a 100k to blow, it was sold on the market bored. I would hate to get banned!
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#20 Sep 27 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Default
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I've spent most of my first month in the game crafting I have all my crafts to 30 (as well as Archer and Lancer) I haven't sold anything on the wards or to anyone in game at all...(NPC Ftw)

I haven't been suspended or anything I'm just stressing I will be if they are banning ppl for just crafting a lot now..

#21 Sep 27 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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IMFW wrote:
I dont have alot of gil, but i have been selling low level quint materia attached staffs for 100k each, should i be worried? I sold a level 20 staff for 100k should i worry about why a level 20 would have a 100k to blow, it was sold on the market bored. I would hate to get banned!


If you sold it throgh the market board, you should not raise suspicions. Many people are already on their second characters and have 100k from crafting / gathering that they would want to use to buy a good staff to make it easier on their 2nd character. Personally I wouldnt spend that much on a lvl 20 staff, but to each his own. Your profit was legitimate. The only transactions that seem to raise red flags are those that occur multiple times across the trade window or moogle delivery service.
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#22 Sep 27 2013 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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Looking at the comments and edit on the reddit thread, I really have to wonder if SE understands the concept of structuring.

#23 Sep 27 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
papajay wrote:
Wouldn't it be terrifically ironic and horribly delightful if Shadowofadoubt got banned for something like this and he was completely "innocent," too?


Won't ever happen, as I dont buy/sell gil/bot/hack, like those caught and crying.



hahahahahahahaha wow you are naive.
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#24 Sep 27 2013 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Like I jhave stated before the onus is on them to prove innocence. A lot of people in prison claim they were innocent, but the facts say otherwise. SE had its reason, and likely a valid one why this happened.


Ok... how do you do that?

No, seriously... let's follow this "logic" for a second. How do you prove that you didn't sell to someone who bought gil?

This, btw, is the same reason the criminal justice system in the US places the burden of proof on the prosecution. Because proving a negative is always difficult, and usually impossible.

Even if the guy HAD questioned his buyers about the source of their money, who's to say they'd tell the truth?
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#25 Sep 27 2013 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure there's a concept of 'innocent til proven guilty' in Japan. When it comes to RMT, their reactions seem more like 'ban em all, let customer service sort em out' which could, with their track record, take a pretty long time. I get the definite feeling their customer service is now an adjunct of the STF team.
I don't think they realize that all the glowing reviews of the game could, in the long run, be tarnished by their knee-jerk reactions to this. Working against RMT is one thing...letting it affect those new (in all likelihood innocent) customers/players attitudes is also going to work against SE.
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#26ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Sep 27 2013 at 2:39 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Who's to say the guy isnt lying his *** off and was involved in buying/selling gil? SE doesnt have to prove you are 100% guilty, just look at salvage bans, where peeps were banned for just being in the salvage ls's whether or not they did the duping. Plus whose to say he didnt care to ask when he sold his stuff in a trade to Xcvrrysi Xfjsu for a million gil?
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