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Suspended Users Over CraftingFollow

#52 Sep 30 2013 at 5:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Glad they are punishing cheaters, sorry if your friend wasn't one.
#53 Sep 30 2013 at 8:35 AM Rating: Decent
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eldelphia wrote:
Not everyone who will have been flagged for a temp ban will be guilty of anything untoward..


No one will ever admit it either so we'll never know the truth.
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#54 Sep 30 2013 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Interesting. I'm not sure whether the person in question is innocent or not because SE has produced no evidence to back up their ban other than the rational conclusion that they must have 'evidence' of something somewhere because they were able to ban this person based on specific sections of their code of conduct or w/e the ****. They didn't just send a blank e-mail saying "You're banned." They clearly had something to inform their decision as to which section of their little code to use when banning the person. Trouble is they'll never reveal the evidence itself and so you're left with pools of commentators who roughly fall into these categories:

1. Square Enix is the best, I hate cheaters, clearly you're a cheater because SE is always right.
2. This player was banned for no reason, Square Enix is the worst, they have horrible customer service, what garbage.
3. I don't care.
4. Based on what's been presented to me as the random "member of the public" I don't have enough to go on to decide for myself one way or the other who is "right".

That's literally all you have. Pools of people taking a position (or none) in a vacuum, some guy who was banned, and SE standing by their "reason" for banning him.

It's all kind of boring really because the person who was banned can't defend himself because SE does kind of have awful customer service and isn't really interested in hearing the defense, and SE is under no obligation to be fair or impartial so they can just let it stand. It's like being hit and killed by lightning. Bad situation? Yes. Recourse? Likely none.

Edited, Sep 30th 2013 12:51pm by Furiousnixon

Edited, Sep 30th 2013 12:54pm by Furiousnixon
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#55 Oct 01 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/63655-Translation-Japanese-to-English?p=1360291&viewfull=1#post1360291

So yeah, even though some will say "SE is just covering their tracks", SE doesn't have a habit of deciding to randomly suspend people, not in the 11 years of XI and they're not starting now.
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#56 Oct 01 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Theonehio wrote:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/63655-Translation-Japanese-to-English?p=1360291&viewfull=1#post1360291

So yeah, even though some will say "SE is just covering their tracks", SE doesn't have a habit of deciding to randomly suspend people, not in the 11 years of XI and they're not starting now.


That thread specifically mentions a "dupe" - if you got cash or extra items from an exploit that duplicates stuff, they have no qualms about smacking you. For those who got suspended and had their gil taken away, they seem to have gotten off rather lightly compared the gil buyers who were outright banned.
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#57 Oct 01 2013 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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DomfranciscoOfIfrit wrote:
Sorry if you were truly suspended without cause, but from my experience playing other MMOs, typically people that claim to be wrongfully banned, aren't telling the whole truth.



You obviously didn't play FFXI, I know lots of people who were banned for not doing anything wrong... Just sending money to a mule or a friend could get you banned. The problem with SE is once banned they dont really give a crap and it is hard nto near impossible to get your account back.

I still remember the big charge card mistake where SE just banned people and it was SE mistake and those people could not get their accounts back.. They have the worst customer service in history.



Edited, Oct 1st 2013 4:06pm by Nashred
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#58 Oct 01 2013 at 2:42 PM Rating: Default
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Nashred wrote:
DomfranciscoOfIfrit wrote:
Sorry if you were truly suspended without cause, but from my experience playing other MMOs, typically people that claim to be wrongfully banned, aren't telling the whole truth.



You obviously didn't play FFXI, I know lots of people who were banned for not doing anything wrong... Just sending money to a mule or a friend could get you banned. The problem with SE is once banned they dont really give a crap and it is hard nto near impossible to get your account back.

I still remember the big charge card mistake where SE just banned people and it was SE mistake and those people could not get their accounts back.. They have the worst customer service in history.



Edited, Oct 1st 2013 4:06pm by Nashred

Everyone I knoew of getting banned in XI was guilty, even if in a minor way. But we all know the rules, and no one should QQ when SE enforces them. These people were guilty and thats that.
#59 Oct 01 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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While I don't disagree that SE has the worst customer service in video game history, I have to concur that anyone I know who was banned had something that triggered suspicion. Even though they claimed no wrong doing. SE banned only when they had evidence. (Someone else's mule transferring ten million gil to you IS evidence. Yeah, yeah, your friend quit the game and gave you all his stuff. So why did he only give you gil and not his Kirin's Osode or collection of HQ staves? And why is that mule now mysteriously deleted and the account it came from banned for gillselling ads? Smiley: dubious )

Edited, Oct 1st 2013 4:47pm by Catwho
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#60 Oct 01 2013 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Nashred wrote:
DomfranciscoOfIfrit wrote:
Sorry if you were truly suspended without cause, but from my experience playing other MMOs, typically people that claim to be wrongfully banned, aren't telling the whole truth.



You obviously didn't play FFXI, I know lots of people who were banned for not doing anything wrong... Just sending money to a mule or a friend could get you banned. The problem with SE is once banned they dont really give a crap and it is hard nto near impossible to get your account back.

I still remember the big charge card mistake where SE just banned people and it was SE mistake and those people could not get their accounts back.. They have the worst customer service in history.



Edited, Oct 1st 2013 4:06pm by Nashred

Everyone I knoew of getting banned in XI was guilty, even if in a minor way. But we all know the rules, and no one should QQ when SE enforces them. These people were guilty and thats that.


please tell me you are trolling.
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#61ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 01 2013 at 4:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Applauding SE for enforcing the rules and taking out gil sellers/buyers is trolling? Ive seen it all now folks.
#62 Oct 01 2013 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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"Applauding SE for enforcing the rules and taking out gil sellers/buyers is trolling? Ive seen it all now folks. "

I think the comment referred to only the guilty being banned.
Do you not remember the huge gardening fiasco in FFXI?
Hundreds of innocent enthusiasts of gardening got banned along with the RMT that were exploiting it.
So sometimes innocent people do get caught up.




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#63ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 02 2013 at 9:10 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Those people werent innocent
#64 Oct 02 2013 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Just writing to weigh in here - I was among those wrongfully suspended on Friday. I have no doubt I tripped many flags and completely understand why my account deserved scrutiny. However the week-long suspension is sort of extreme - customer support told me today my account is suspended through October 4th, although they couldn't tell me why the 72-hour suspension had been extended.

I'm happy to be subjected to additional scrutiny since I'm confiedent I have never participated in the buying or selling of gil, or in exploits of any kind, but being banned first and having questions asked later... it makes me very sad. At least I doubt they will subtract gil I made in sales, as I suspect their approach will be very much 'if this player sold items and could not have known for a fact the buying player bought gil or was RMT, we will not punish them for things beyond their control.' Obviously many folks will show up claiming they weren't guilty when in fact they were, but hopefully my concern for the wait and not the result lends some authenticity here and highlights the terrible treatment those folks who were suspended wrongly are getting.
#65 Oct 02 2013 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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Just curious how you tripped those flags? Were you selling very expensive items on the market boards?
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#66ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 02 2013 at 9:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Actually they are yanking your gil according to the STF report.
#67 Oct 02 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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The most egregious violators will be terminated, it says. Then it mentions that temporarily suspended characters will have gil removed. Given the context I think the format suggests that they are clarifying that non-egregious violatiors will have gil subtracted - i.e. folks who bought a million gil once, as opposed to somebody who was serving as an RMT distributor or buying tens of millions which would probably merit a termination.

I can't imagine they will be punishing innocent players. By that logic if even one person was thrown into the mix who only had maybe 100k on hand but had sold 1 philosophy item to a person who bought gil, they'd have their 100k subtracted too. I can't believe that's what's going to happen, it makes no sense.
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#68 Oct 02 2013 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:

Applauding SE for enforcing the rules and taking out gil sellers/buyers is trolling? Ive seen it all now folks.


ok. so. you aren't trolling, and are just incredibly naive.
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#69 Oct 02 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Just curious how you tripped those flags? Were you selling very expensive items on the market boards?


I was - server first items, things like that. With no history to go buy, I threw them up for about 250% profit margins to see if they'd sell. They did. However, I think what tripped the flags were a few HQ 2-star sales I made to other players directly who contacted me for commissions. The items cost about 760k to make each, so you can imagine my asking price as the only character actively capable of making them to the best of my knowledge. I suspect those huge character-to-character trades of gil are what threw warning bells up on my account, and I completely understand why.

This isn't directed at you, but this can easily lead into a debate about whether I deserve to keep the gil if it came from RMT. Of course I do. I sold at or around market value, and when there wasn't a market value I think I get the privilege of setting my own prices - especially if folks will buy. I'm sure SE would agree that top crafters operating within the letter and spirit of the rules should not have to artificially deflate their own prices or choose to not sell items at all for fear of receiving tainted gil. I say ban the players who bought gil along with the items they bought. I don't think they have time to be going around and researching each item I sold and deducting the gil for that item from my account while giving me the item back.

So, I'm fine if folks disagree but I'm not concerned about the outcome. I'm concerned about how long this is taking, especially when I'm still being billed.
#70ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 02 2013 at 10:08 AM, Rating: Unrated, (Expand Post) Naive would be believing these people are innocent, when SE's STF just stated that nobody was innocent, just guilty in a lesser degree.
#71 Oct 02 2013 at 10:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Llester wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:

Applauding SE for enforcing the rules and taking out gil sellers/buyers is trolling? Ive seen it all now folks.


ok. so. you aren't trolling, and are just incredibly naive.

Naive would be believing these people are innocent, when SE's STF just stated that nobody was innocent, just guilty in a lesser degree.


Naive, and you don't understand how corporations work. k got it
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#72 Oct 02 2013 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Llester wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Llester wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:

Applauding SE for enforcing the rules and taking out gil sellers/buyers is trolling? Ive seen it all now folks.


ok. so. you aren't trolling, and are just incredibly naive.

Naive would be believing these people are innocent, when SE's STF just stated that nobody was innocent, just guilty in a lesser degree.


Naive, and you don't understand how corporations work. k got it


Yeah I'm going to have to agree here - SE is not going to give any statistics or indication of how many, if any, accounts were wrongfully suspended - although I doubt any were wrongfully permabanned. Never take an opportunity to proactively announce you've suspended some people wrongfully - only if a large enough uproar is occurring does one respond and give that kind of information.
#73 Oct 02 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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AleminaofBismarck wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Just curious how you tripped those flags? Were you selling very expensive items on the market boards?


I was - server first items, things like that. With no history to go buy, I threw them up for about 250% profit margins to see if they'd sell. They did. However, I think what tripped the flags were a few HQ 2-star sales I made to other players directly who contacted me for commissions. The items cost about 760k to make each, so you can imagine my asking price as the only character actively capable of making them to the best of my knowledge. I suspect those huge character-to-character trades of gil are what threw warning bells up on my account, and I completely understand why.

This isn't directed at you, but this can easily lead into a debate about whether I deserve to keep the gil if it came from RMT. Of course I do. I sold at or around market value, and when there wasn't a market value I think I get the privilege of setting my own prices - especially if folks will buy. I'm sure SE would agree that top crafters operating within the letter and spirit of the rules should not have to artificially deflate their own prices or choose to not sell items at all for fear of receiving tainted gil. I say ban the players who bought gil along with the items they bought. I don't think they have time to be going around and researching each item I sold and deducting the gil for that item from my account while giving me the item back.

So, I'm fine if folks disagree but I'm not concerned about the outcome. I'm concerned about how long this is taking, especially when I'm still being billed.


I'd say so long as the logs show you had "first sale" items with no previous record of value or commissions in which actual hard goods were exchanged, you should be okay then.

Thank you for explaining. And I think that also explains why you have the suspension extension, since you're not an obvious buyer from a single source nor an obvious botter/duper. Some poor schlub intern at SE is currently going through the transaction logs line by line for your character. Smiley: lol

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 12:44pm by Catwho
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#74 Oct 02 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
AleminaofBismarck wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Just curious how you tripped those flags? Were you selling very expensive items on the market boards?


I was - server first items, things like that. With no history to go buy, I threw them up for about 250% profit margins to see if they'd sell. They did. However, I think what tripped the flags were a few HQ 2-star sales I made to other players directly who contacted me for commissions. The items cost about 760k to make each, so you can imagine my asking price as the only character actively capable of making them to the best of my knowledge. I suspect those huge character-to-character trades of gil are what threw warning bells up on my account, and I completely understand why.

This isn't directed at you, but this can easily lead into a debate about whether I deserve to keep the gil if it came from RMT. Of course I do. I sold at or around market value, and when there wasn't a market value I think I get the privilege of setting my own prices - especially if folks will buy. I'm sure SE would agree that top crafters operating within the letter and spirit of the rules should not have to artificially deflate their own prices or choose to not sell items at all for fear of receiving tainted gil. I say ban the players who bought gil along with the items they bought. I don't think they have time to be going around and researching each item I sold and deducting the gil for that item from my account while giving me the item back.

So, I'm fine if folks disagree but I'm not concerned about the outcome. I'm concerned about how long this is taking, especially when I'm still being billed.


I'd say so long as the logs show you had "first sale" items with no previous record of value or commissions in which actual hard goods were exchanged, you should be okay then.

Thank you for explaining. And I think that also explains why you have the suspension extension, since you're not an obvious buyer from a single source nor an obvious botter/duper. Some poor schlub intern at SE is currently going through the transaction logs line by line for your character. Smiley: lol

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 12:44pm by Catwho


I really hope so. It seems to make the most sense, but forums are forums so folks are going to feel the need to argue, always. I understand the impulse, but it gets pretty scary when folks are yelling from every direction that I'm a liar.
#75 Oct 02 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
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At this point though, their message discipline seems to suggest that each and every person who was suspended is guilty.

From Reinhart:

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きちんと調査を行った上で対処をしていますので、普通にプレイして金策をしていただく分にはまったく問題なく、無差別にアカウント停止などを行うことはありませんのでご安心ください。
We are dealing with them after carefully investigating, so for those that are normally playing, and collecting money wouldn’t have any problem. We will not randomly suspend accounts so please do not worry.


This was in response to the question from a JP player regarding their fears of collecting too much gil and getting suspended. It may not be internal policy, but since I was normally playing and collecting money, I'm certainly having a problem. My biggest fear that has started to bubble up since this morning when I learned of these statements is that they will simply keep us suspended and then punish us anyway so that they have deniability - folks showing up on the forums with tales of getting their account back with gil intact would make them look pretty bad for suspending legit players.

I recognize that that scenario would just lead to further claims that the people cheated and just feel bad now - but I wonder if all of those banned and suspended accounts are entirely, 100% all guilty people. I'm not, and the folks in my LS who were banned likely aren't. As I've said many times before in various venues, why would we ever buy gil if we always were ahead of the game since before gil was available for sale? We never *needed* to put our accounts at risk because we always had enough to pay for the next tier of crafting. ****, I had to level mining to 50 - server first - because there wasn't even an option to buy the materials. Nobody else had them. Being rich at the end of the first week sort of kills the need to risk it all just to buy gil.

I fervently hope SE does not take the cowardly approach of punishing the innocents cuaght up in this just for the sake of PR. Punishing passionate players who were mixed in with the (I would guess) bad majority of RMT/buyers just to save PR face is evil.
#76 Oct 02 2013 at 12:14 PM Rating: Default
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AleminaofBismarck wrote:
At this point though, their message discipline seems to suggest that each and every person who was suspended is guilty.

From Reinhart:

Quote:
きちんと調査を行った上で対処をしていますので、普通にプレイして金策をしていただく分にはまったく問題なく、無差別にアカウント停止などを行うことはありませんのでご安心ください。
We are dealing with them after carefully investigating, so for those that are normally playing, and collecting money wouldn’t have any problem. We will not randomly suspend accounts so please do not worry.


This was in response to the question from a JP player regarding their fears of collecting too much gil and getting suspended. It may not be internal policy, but since I was normally playing and collecting money, I'm certainly having a problem. My biggest fear that has started to bubble up since this morning when I learned of these statements is that they will simply keep us suspended and then punish us anyway so that they have deniability - folks showing up on the forums with tales of getting their account back with gil intact would make them look pretty bad for suspending legit players.

I recognize that that scenario would just lead to further claims that the people cheated and just feel bad now - but I wonder if all of those banned and suspended accounts are entirely, 100% all guilty people. I'm not, and the folks in my LS who were banned likely aren't. As I've said many times before in various venues, why would we ever buy gil if we always were ahead of the game since before gil was available for sale? We never *needed* to put our accounts at risk because we always had enough to pay for the next tier of crafting. ****, I had to level mining to 50 - server first - because there wasn't even an option to buy the materials. Nobody else had them. Being rich at the end of the first week sort of kills the need to risk it all just to buy gil.

I fervently hope SE does not take the cowardly approach of punishing the innocents cuaght up in this just for the sake of PR. Punishing passionate players who were mixed in with the (I would guess) bad majority of RMT/buyers just to save PR face is evil.

Putting crafted items up on he AH at a price where only gil buers could afford makes you guilty by reason of your greed. You did not care where your gil came from, and now you (and others) are trying to spin innocence when SE has the transaction logs that prove your gil is ill gotten. You people will lose your gil, and perhaps you will learn your lesson abot overpricing commodoties.
#77 Oct 02 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
guilty by reason of your greed. You did not care where your gil came from, and now you (and others) are trying to spin innocence when SE has the transaction logs that prove your gil is ill gotten. You people will lose your gil, and perhaps you will learn your lesson abot overpricing commodoties.


What? They have the transaction logs showing I paid 720k for the mats to make an item. Then I put it up on the market for 1.5M. What about that is untoward? Illegal? Against the rules in letter or in spirit? If a desire to make money is punishable we may as well start banning undercutters as well. It's not my job to police where the gil comes from if I'm operating in a legitimate fashion.

Let me ask you, if you paid 720k for the mats for an item that had never been made before and you were confident nobody else would be able to make for a little while, what would you list it for? What's a 'fair price'? Or are you suggesting I'm guilty simply for having the gall to be the first one listing the item? Get off your moral high horse, until I'm inducted into the STF it's not my job to police my transactions and restrict my crafting behavior out of fear of RMT buying my goods. I've seen posts like this before and they seem tailor-made to provoke a reaction.
#78 Oct 02 2013 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's a huge difference between 1.5 million gil for a fairly expensive HQ level 50 piece of gear, and 1.5 million gil for a NQ bat wing. The latter will be banned for buying gil. The former is probably going to be okay.

... dude, I seriously hope you'll be okay. Smiley: frown
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#79 Oct 02 2013 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
There's a huge difference between 1.5 million gil for a fairly expensive HQ level 50 piece of gear, and 1.5 million gil for a NQ bat wing. The latter will be banned for buying gil. The former is probably going to be okay.

... dude, I seriously hope you'll be okay. Smiley: frown


We'll see. I called support again about an hour ago and finally got a rep - same one I've been talking to recently. He said after the news yesterday from Japan regarding RMT bans and suspensions they are no longer 100% confident that we will retain our gil, but that given previous action taken by the STF in Japan they do not anticipate gil will be removed from accounts where players did not directly involve themselves in the buying and selling of gil for real-world cash. Like the item I was talking about earlier, there is no way for SE to prove or suspect that the market value of the item was not indeed 1.5M - early markets for items can also be hugely volatile. If a player buys 1.5M to purchase a ring and I receive the gil, what about when I spend that gil? Are the folks who I sent that gil to now culpable as well? If RMT hadn't bought my item, I wouldn't be paying for new materials... and so on and so forth.

It's hard to know, but it makes the most sense from their point of view I think to punish the source player. The item that the gil paid for is taken out of the game with the ban. Only in the instance an item was sold at an unusual price will there be an issue, and I suspect 'unusual price' does not include high prices for absurdly rare items, regardless of where the gil came from.

We'll have to wait and see, I'll update with a screenshot when my account unlocks on Friday confirming that either my gil was confiscated, or not. By all logic it should be the latter, unless SE has a really twisted view of punishing legit players.
#80 Oct 02 2013 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Kind of worries me.

It is very easy, as of this post, to have over 5 million gil on a new server without any crafts leveled. There are certain crafting items and materia that are in high demand. The NPC provides the crafting material. The crafters can make their level 55 items, wear them for a few dungeon runs to spirit bond them, and then convert them into materia very easily. Some of the better level 3 materia sells for 150k+ on Migard. Almost all the level 4 materia sells for 200k on Migard.

Investigation should probably be done before without assuming someone is guilty just because of x amount of gil on an account.


I know of one guy in an LS of mine that had max on all trade skills (non-legacy) before the second week of EA was up. Even accounting for the P4 beta time, how on earth did he level every single craft skill to 50 in that short amount of time?

His gatherers are all in their 30's, and even if they were maxed it would take a good chunk of time to get all the necessary mats by hand, not to mention stuff that just has to be farmed (furble tufts, animal skins/hides/sinew). There simply aren't enough leves available in that time frame to get max crafting. So where did all that xp come from?

SE apparently thinks the same thing, because he's a part of the suspension as well.
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#81 Oct 02 2013 at 2:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quor wrote:
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Kind of worries me.

It is very easy, as of this post, to have over 5 million gil on a new server without any crafts leveled. There are certain crafting items and materia that are in high demand. The NPC provides the crafting material. The crafters can make their level 55 items, wear them for a few dungeon runs to spirit bond them, and then convert them into materia very easily. Some of the better level 3 materia sells for 150k+ on Migard. Almost all the level 4 materia sells for 200k on Migard.

Investigation should probably be done before without assuming someone is guilty just because of x amount of gil on an account.


I know of one guy in an LS of mine that had max on all trade skills (non-legacy) before the second week of EA was up. Even accounting for the P4 beta time, how on earth did he level every single craft skill to 50 in that short amount of time?

His gatherers are all in their 30's, and even if they were maxed it would take a good chunk of time to get all the necessary mats by hand, not to mention stuff that just has to be farmed (furble tufts, animal skins/hides/sinew). There simply aren't enough leves available in that time frame to get max crafting. So where did all that xp come from?

SE apparently thinks the same thing, because he's a part of the suspension as well.


Did he also have a DoW/DoM leveled up?
#82 Oct 02 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Never underestimate the ability of a determined hardcore player to crank out multiple max level jobs in a short period of time.

Edit: Not saying he was innocent - based on that description he sounds like a prime candidate to have discovered the gil duping exploit that SE patched up yesterday.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 5:35pm by Catwho
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#83 Oct 02 2013 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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I mean, I burned GSM and MIN up concurrently and didn't start on CRP until about two weeks later. I know there were other 50 GSMs within a few days without mining leveled too far - they were just repeating high-reward low-level leves all the way to 50. They were dirt-poor and couldn't make anything out of mythril or electrum because I wasn't selling yet, but they were 50.
#84 Oct 02 2013 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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I'd love to know what that exploit was - just out of curiosity - but I guess no one is going to saySmiley: disappointed
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#85 Oct 02 2013 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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KissMyPixel wrote:
I'd love to know what that exploit was - just out of curiosity - but I guess no one is going to saySmiley: disappointed


Yeah, SE is being pretty tight lipped about it. All we know is that it was a duping exploit and it's gone now!
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#86 Oct 03 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Support told me they're scheduled to unlock at 'midnight on the 4th'. Unfortunately they couldn't tell me which midnight, which leaves four - Friday morning or night, JP or NA.
#87 Oct 03 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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I'm curious as to how anyone racks up enough gil that fast to make enough to buy 750k worth of materials... in the first week or two after launch on a non legacy server.
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#88 Oct 03 2013 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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eldelphia wrote:
I'm curious as to how anyone racks up enough gil that fast to make enough to buy 750k worth of materials... in the first week or two after launch on a non legacy server.


More like a month it seems.

Again, never underestimate the hardcore. If I wasn't at work ten hours a day and splitting my time between two MMOs and three characters in XIV, I'd probably have all level 50s and be rich too. As it is, I barely get an hour in two or three times a week. Smiley: frown
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#89 Oct 03 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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eldelphia wrote:
I'm curious as to how anyone racks up enough gil that fast to make enough to buy 750k worth of materials... in the first week or two after launch on a non legacy server.


I can actually provide some insight here, which can be corroborated by pretty much anyone on my server who was leveling nonstop to 50 combat during the first week of the game.

Exactly one week after early access started, I hit server-first GSM50 and MIN50 (I actually just did exploration xp to carry my miner most of the way from 49-50). I'd taken a few days off of work to facilitate what I figured would be the launch of my last MMO. Never done anything like that before, I wanted to try being one of 'the best'. That involved some enormous marathon mining sessions with old episodes of Whose Line keeping me company. By the end I had a metric ton of Electrum Ore saved up.

I sold HQ electrum jewelry on the markets for 29k each, and offered them at 19k/ea or 90k per set of 5 to folks who purchased directly. This is a sticking point for some people I guess - they say I was ripping people off or deserve to be banned or what have you, but I didn't even start offering the 19k until I saw how fast they moved for 29k on the market boards. If folks will buy, I don't see how anyone can tell me to stop selling or that I'm playing in any way not intended by the devs.

By the time electrum gear started slowing down and other GSMs caught up maybe a week later, I'd made a bit over 2 million gil. I sold maybe 15 full sets and lots of individual items. Around that time is when the first RMT spam started showing up in cities. By that point, even if I had thought it was ok to buy gil (I don't), I wouldn't have needed to. I had all the gil I'd need to finance my crafting pretty much in perpetuity.

With that gil I was able to afford the items for the Sanguine Scepter - I fumbled there and asked too much in the beginning. I consequently didn't manage to sell more than one or two before another GSM caught up - I still managed to make somewhere around 2M in profits on those. At that point I was at about 5M - enough to start considering dropping 750k on philosophy materials. It was exactly the kind of crafting endgame challenge for which I was prepared to risk a small fortune.
#90ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 03 2013 at 10:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) They dont, hence the suspensions, apparently only gil buyers were buying those items.
#91 Oct 03 2013 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Putting crafted items up on he AH at a price where only gil buers could afford makes you guilty by reason of your greed. You did not care where your gil came from, and now you (and others) are trying to spin innocence when SE has the transaction logs that prove your gil is ill gotten. You people will lose your gil, and perhaps you will learn your lesson abot overpricing commodoties.


This is the dumbest thing I have read in a while. One cannot control who buys their wares. This would be like shutting down a 7-11 because a known drug dealer was seen purchasing items from that store with suspected drug money.
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#92 Oct 03 2013 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
eldelphia wrote:
I'm curious as to how anyone racks up enough gil that fast to make enough to buy 750k worth of materials... in the first week or two after launch on a non legacy server.

They dont, hence the suspensions, apparently only gil buyers were buying those items.


See my post above in response to this person. Please let me know if anything doesn't make sense or requires clarification.
#93 Oct 03 2013 at 10:58 AM Rating: Default
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Azoria wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Putting crafted items up on he AH at a price where only gil buers could afford makes you guilty by reason of your greed. You did not care where your gil came from, and now you (and others) are trying to spin innocence when SE has the transaction logs that prove your gil is ill gotten. You people will lose your gil, and perhaps you will learn your lesson abot overpricing commodoties.


This is the dumbest thing I have read in a while. One cannot control who buys their wares. This would be like shutting down a 7-11 because a known drug dealer was seen purchasing items from that store with suspected drug money.

Well they are taking the crafters gil that they know was purchased. So I dont know how you cant comprehend that its not whether or not crafters are guilty, they were still used in the gil selling/buying scheme of things. Just like the gov't would take your money if you were duped in a scam, because it was illegally gained (look at Madoffs's clients)
#94 Oct 03 2013 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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If someone purchases your goods with a stolen credit card, you may have to forfeit the money, but you're not going to also be charged with credit card fraud yourself. (And durable goods may be returned to the seller if they're not being used for police evidence.) That may be the situation that Alemina is facing.
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#95ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 03 2013 at 11:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Thats what I am saying here. The crafters cant cry about losing their gil, if that gil was illegal to begin with. Part of that problem was self-inflicted by the crafters, by overpricing everything to where only buyers of gil could purchase it. Their own greed was their downfall.
#96 Oct 03 2013 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Azoria wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Putting crafted items up on he AH at a price where only gil buers could afford makes you guilty by reason of your greed. You did not care where your gil came from, and now you (and others) are trying to spin innocence when SE has the transaction logs that prove your gil is ill gotten. You people will lose your gil, and perhaps you will learn your lesson abot overpricing commodoties.


This is the dumbest thing I have read in a while. One cannot control who buys their wares. This would be like shutting down a 7-11 because a known drug dealer was seen purchasing items from that store with suspected drug money.

Well they are taking the crafters gil that they know was purchased. So I dont know how you cant comprehend that its not whether or not crafters are guilty, they were still used in the gil selling/buying scheme of things. Just like the gov't would take your money if you were duped in a scam, because it was illegally gained (look at Madoffs's clients)



I have to agree with Shadow on this one. Even in real life, if you sell something to someone and the money they have was either illegally obtained, you are now the one in possession of the illegal or 'counterfeit' money. You will lose that money. SE appears to be taking the same steps. So if a crafter makes something, legitimately, then sells it to someone (gil buyer), regardless of the fact if they knew or did not know the seller was a gil buyer, the money the crafter is now in possession of is illegal gil, hence you will lose it.

Look, i'm not saying that good, honest working crafters aren't getting screwed over this, but, even in real life you would still lose. I am truly sorry for those that do fall into this area.

If the crafters accounts are just being suspended while the illegal gil is removed and then the account is returned to them, then i honestly don't see a problem.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 1:09pm by RyanSquires
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#97 Oct 03 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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RyanSquires wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Azoria wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Putting crafted items up on he AH at a price where only gil buers could afford makes you guilty by reason of your greed. You did not care where your gil came from, and now you (and others) are trying to spin innocence when SE has the transaction logs that prove your gil is ill gotten. You people will lose your gil, and perhaps you will learn your lesson abot overpricing commodoties.


This is the dumbest thing I have read in a while. One cannot control who buys their wares. This would be like shutting down a 7-11 because a known drug dealer was seen purchasing items from that store with suspected drug money.

Well they are taking the crafters gil that they know was purchased. So I dont know how you cant comprehend that its not whether or not crafters are guilty, they were still used in the gil selling/buying scheme of things. Just like the gov't would take your money if you were duped in a scam, because it was illegally gained (look at Madoffs's clients)



I have to agree with Shadow on this one. Even in real life, if you sell something to someone and the money they have was either illegally obtained, you are now the one in possession of the illegal or 'counterfeit' money. You will lose that money. SE appears to be taking the same steps. So if a crafter makes something, legitimately, then sells it to someone (gil buyer), regardless of the fact if they knew or did not know the seller was a gil buyer, the money the crafter is now in possession of is illegal gil, hence you will lose it.

Look, i'm not saying that good, honest working crafters aren't getting screwed over this, but, even in real life you would still lose. I am truly sorry for those that do fall into this area.

If the crafters accounts are just being suspended while the illegal gil is removed and then the account is returned to them, then i honestly don't see a problem.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 1:09pm by RyanSquires


Couple things.

First of all, folks keep saying I bought gil and then don't respond to my above explanation of how I earned mine.

Second, to address your point: Everyone I purchased philosophy items from should be suspended as well. I've spent millions on them at this point, and that was definitely in part from proceeds from these people we're calling RMT buyers. I don't understand how they're not handling dirty gil as well and I have to suffer - they profited off of indirect RMT as well.

This isn't the real world where there are some rather complicated issues, it's a game. If we crafters were suspended for receiving gil from people who bought gil, SE needs to look at whether we were playing as intended. Items like the ones I made still sell at multi-million levels now, so they obviously were sold at market value - ban the RMT players and their ill-gotten items.

This is all sort of pointless though, because as I've said numerous times before the folks buying from me are *not suspended*. SE says they finished their investigation last weekend, and the folks who made those huge purchases are still dandy. I cannot fathom punishing crafters for receiving gil for goods at market value but not punishing the people who were distributing tainted gil. It *doesn't follow*.
#98ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 03 2013 at 11:28 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Thats a mighty assumption there, you have no way of knowing which of your customers were gil buyers or whether they were suspended. All that we know is you received bought gil from someone.
#99 Oct 03 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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AleminaofBismarck wrote:


Couple things.

First of all, folks keep saying I bought gil and then don't respond to my above explanation of how I earned mine.

Second, to address your point: Everyone I purchased philosophy items from should be suspended as well. I've spent millions on them at this point, and that was definitely in part from proceeds from these people we're calling RMT buyers. I don't understand how they're not handling dirty gil as well and I have to suffer - they profited off of indirect RMT as well.

This isn't the real world where there are some rather complicated issues, it's a game. If we crafters were suspended for receiving gil from people who bought gil, SE needs to look at whether we were playing as intended. Items like the ones I made still sell at multi-million levels now, so they obviously were sold at market value - ban the RMT players and their ill-gotten items.

This is all sort of pointless though, because as I've said numerous times before the folks buying from me are *not suspended*. SE says they finished their investigation last weekend, and the folks who made those huge purchases are still dandy. I cannot fathom punishing crafters for receiving gil for goods at market value but not punishing the people who were distributing tainted gil. It *doesn't follow*.


I am not saying you did or did not purchase gil from whomever, i was simply making a comment. If SE feels you are in possession of 'counterfeit', hopefully they will only take some gil and not completely clean your account out.

It is unfair that a crafter who comes into possession of 'counterfeit' gil has their account locked up while gil sellers and bots still swarm the cities and mining points. Game or real life, this is just something that happens.

Again, i'm not saying your right or wrong or whatever at this point, i'm just making an observation and offering my pov, take it as you will.
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#100 Oct 03 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Thats a mighty assumption there, you have no way of knowing which of your customers were gil buyers or whether they were suspended. All that we know is you received bought gil from someone.


How is there no way of knowing if they were suspended? I have friends in-game who have been confirming all week that my customers are still online. I know who my customers are because in terms of 2-stars, it was four people - two on the markets, two directly. They're all still playing. If anyone else bought stuff from me with bought gil, it can't have been for more than 100k.

#101 Oct 03 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Likely Alemina never received gil. At all. All they saw was a large amassing of gil, a few off MP transactions, and preemptively locked down the account with the intent to investigate the account.
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