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#102ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 03 2013 at 12:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I think its more likely he did and he knows he is going to lose some gil, hence the vocal objections.
#103 Oct 03 2013 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Likely Alemina never received gil. At all. All they saw was a large amassing of gil, a few off MP transactions, and preemptively locked down the account with the intent to investigate the account.

I think its more likely he did and he knows he is going to lose some gil, hence the vocal objections.

I think he mostly just wants his account back at this point. With 50 GSM he can probably make the gil back easily enough.
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#104 Oct 03 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Default
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The question that wasn't answered, was on these new servers, where did millions of gil come from in the first few weeks.

I am not arguing that your method of obtaining gil isn't possible, just that the money used had to come from somewhere, and its a bit hard to fathom with how expensive TP/Repairs were up until recently, that there was a viable way for millions of gil to enter the economy for people to legitimately use to buy your items.

At most you receive around 700k i think was the number, if you do all the quests and all of the main story and pick nothing but the gil options up to 50/main story complete.

I seriously doubt gil sellers were leveling 8+ toons simultaneously for the sole purpose of collecting gil rewards up to 50. We already know there was at least 2 exploits in the game that have had bannable consequences.

At 50 the best way to generate gil is:
naked fates (to avoid repair costs)
HQ crafter leves (where you gather all the materials/buy from a vendor and not an AH)

Neither of which can generate Millions in a month, i have been pounding out leves as fast as they come and have only made 100k of gil (net profit) in a month, because I run out of leves.
#105 Oct 03 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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dustinfoley wrote:
The question that wasn't answered, was on these new servers, where did millions of gil come from in the first few weeks.

I am not arguing that your method of obtaining gil isn't possible, just that the money used had to come from somewhere, and its a bit hard to fathom with how expensive TP/Repairs were up until recently, that there was a viable way for millions of gil to enter the economy for people to legitimately use to buy your items.

At most you receive around 700k i think was the number, if you do all the quests and all of the main story and pick nothing but the gil options up to 50/main story complete.

I seriously doubt gil sellers were leveling 8+ toons simultaneously for the sole purpose of collecting gil rewards up to 50. We already know there was at least 2 exploits in the game that have had bannable consequences.

At 50 the best way to generate gil is:
naked fates (to avoid repair costs)
HQ crafter leves (where you gather all the materials/buy from a vendor and not an AH)

Neither of which can generate Millions in a month, i have been pounding out leves as fast as they come and have only made 100k of gil (net profit) in a month, because I run out of leves.


Please go back and read my extensive post on the last page detailing how I made my early gil. Many, many players dumped a lot of their gil into the early economy. If 1000 players on a server dump 200k of the 250-300 most folks earn getting up to 50 into the economy, that's 200 million to be concentrated up to the folks who put themselves in the right place to be on the receiving end.
#106 Oct 03 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Likely Alemina never received gil. At all. All they saw was a large amassing of gil, a few off MP transactions, and preemptively locked down the account with the intent to investigate the account.

I think its more likely he did and he knows he is going to lose some gil, hence the vocal objections.


So basically you're still here because you want everyone to know that you think I'm a liar. Fine, keep it up for all I care.
#107 Oct 03 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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OK, he did not earn it from NPCs. He earned it from other players. Right now, playing very limitedly, and slowly, and not even using the MP aside from a few small sales, I am at almost 36k with some on my retainer. That's not even trying to make money, that's just happening into whatever money I get.

Now, with players burning content, likely they could earn 50-60k in the amount of time I've played (a couple weeks), and being that they are burning content, they need gear. He provided said gear. There are more of them than there are of him, so therefore they have more money combined than he himself can earn. So then they give him the money, and he then has the money.

I hate to make that sound dumbed down, but you're not really giving much choice.

edit:
AleminaofBismarck wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Likely Alemina never received gil. At all. All they saw was a large amassing of gil, a few off MP transactions, and preemptively locked down the account with the intent to investigate the account.

I think its more likely he did and he knows he is going to lose some gil, hence the vocal objections.


So basically you're still here because you want everyone to know that you think I'm a liar. Fine, keep it up for all I care.


Ignore the trash. We usually do around here. He's just either trolling, a ********* or both.


Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 2:39pm by Pawkeshup
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#108 Oct 03 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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AleminaofBismarck wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Likely Alemina never received gil. At all. All they saw was a large amassing of gil, a few off MP transactions, and preemptively locked down the account with the intent to investigate the account.

I think its more likely he did and he knows he is going to lose some gil, hence the vocal objections.


So basically you're still here because you want everyone to know that you think I'm a liar. Fine, keep it up for all I care.


I have never come across such a Negative Nancy - Guilty till you are proven Innocent person on ANY Forum.
He is one of the have nots - so lives off making out that anyone who does, has to be a liar and a cheat.
I wouldn't be surprised if he is a back-stabber in real life. Sad little boy.
SE have, in the past, and will do in future, cast their net too wide and included innocents in their bans.
The attitude that they are NEVER wrong is false - nobody is infallable.
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#109 Oct 03 2013 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'll be sure to just ignore in the future, thanks.

Edit: I'll be sure to also update you all with some evidence of what ends up happening with my account once the suspension ends - by this time tomorrow, hopefully.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 2:05pm by AleminaofBismarck
#110 Oct 03 2013 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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Here's hoping you get released from suspension without a scratch. I know SE does their best, but it's obvious they have the wrong guy here.
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#111ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 03 2013 at 1:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) One thing about that though, he has yet to prove his innocence. If he gets back on and hasnt lost 1 gil, he was innocent.
#112 Oct 03 2013 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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One thing about that though, he has yet to prove his innocence. If he gets back on and hasnt lost 1 gil, he was innocent.[/quote]

Even if he HAS lost gil it just means SE are stupid.
What are we supposed to do? Ask each person we sell to if they bought their gil?
Are they likely to say yes?
If it's a sale on the market boards how can we ever tell?
You are just being a Prat for the sake of it!

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#113ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 03 2013 at 1:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I never said he could have prevented it. But its far from stupid to remove the gil that the sellers have flooded the economy with. In fact stupid would be to let them keep the gil thus leaving the economy borked (except for those who have the ill gotten millions)
#114 Oct 03 2013 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
I never said he could have prevented it. But its far from stupid to remove the gil that the sellers have flooded the economy with. In fact stupid would be to let them keep the gil thus leaving the economy borked (except for those who have the ill gotten millions)

But you were being gleeful about the fact that he may lose his gil. That is hardly adult!
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#115 Oct 03 2013 at 1:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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KissMyPixel wrote:


Even if he HAS lost gil it just means SE are stupid.
What are we supposed to do? Ask each person we sell to if they bought their gil?
Are they likely to say yes?
If it's a sale on the market boards how can we ever tell?
You are just being a Prat for the sake of it!



If I've lost 1 gil I'll call that a win.

I got off the phone with support a few minutes ago. My account is still scheduled to unlock tomorrow, and there's a new memo that now mentions a 'general ongoing investigation' but does not include language from previous memos that discussed 'investigation into RMT activities'. Seems like good news, although we won't know until tomorrow at the earliest I guess.

If I really had to guess, I'd say they're keeping me out so they can check up on folks who bought items from me, thus the pivot to 'general investigation'. I've never exploited, botted, or played in a way unintended by the devs, so I can't imagine an investigation into that sort of thing would take very long, thus my suspicion this is about following a possible trail of tainted gil back to the source to exact punishment.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 2:53pm by AleminaofBismarck
#116 Oct 03 2013 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Likely Alemina never received gil. At all. All they saw was a large amassing of gil, a few off MP transactions, and preemptively locked down the account with the intent to investigate the account.

I think its more likely he did and he knows he is going to lose some gil, hence the vocal objections.


I think its even more likely that your distrust of and attacks on fellow players is a clear indicator that you yourself are a liar/cheat//probable gil buyer.
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#117 Oct 03 2013 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Llester wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Likely Alemina never received gil. At all. All they saw was a large amassing of gil, a few off MP transactions, and preemptively locked down the account with the intent to investigate the account.

I think its more likely he did and he knows he is going to lose some gil, hence the vocal objections.


I think its even more likely that your distrust of and attacks on fellow players is a clear indicator that you yourself are a liar/cheat//probable gil buyer.

/nod

Methinks he doth protest too much. lol
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#118 Oct 03 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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LebargeX wrote:
Llester wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Likely Alemina never received gil. At all. All they saw was a large amassing of gil, a few off MP transactions, and preemptively locked down the account with the intent to investigate the account.

I think its more likely he did and he knows he is going to lose some gil, hence the vocal objections.


I think its even more likely that your distrust of and attacks on fellow players is a clear indicator that you yourself are a liar/cheat//probable gil buyer.

/nod

Methinks he doth protest too much. lol

He's just a sad little boy who thinks he's being a big bad troll and he can't even do a good job of that!
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#119 Oct 03 2013 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent
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EU is unlocking, so far on reddit two players reported being entirely cleaned out while another reported a loss of 12k. Nobody corroborating with screenshot evidence yet. Pretty heavily suggests a 12:00PDT release for NA.
#120 Oct 03 2013 at 8:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, i hope your account is unlocked soon.

It is not my place to comment on your guilt or innocents. If your account is only suspended and not deleted completely that is just proof that your were not directly responsible for whatever 'criminal' act your account took place in. I am merely speaking as a CJ major and as such, I do feel that best course of action is to remove the 'counterfeit' gil, if you possess any at all, from your account. I only say this because i feel it is needed to stabilize the economy. Again, not pointing blame or guilt, just offering my opinion.

Best of luck getting your account back.
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#121 Oct 04 2013 at 3:18 AM Rating: Good
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Update:

Got my account back, my gil was literally divided by 100. Reddit seems to suggest lots of people experienced this. It does not suggest a proper investigation was carried out.

If we assume the people buying 2-star gear from me were using stolen/RMT'd gil, I should at least get the items back. Also, about a third of my gil came solely from selling *lots* of electrum gear, raw mats, and materia. I don't see how that could possibly be RMT.

Also, just by leveling to 50 one earns about 300k. How could dividing by 100 and leaving me with far less than 300k possibly be indicative of what they stated in the e-mail - "Please note that we have removed any items and/or gil that you have earned in an unauthorized manner apart from the minimum amount of gil that will be required to play the game."

How could quest rewards also possibly be unauthorized? No matter how you slice it, even if I'm lying about everything else they obviously ****** up.
#122 Oct 04 2013 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
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It stinks that some innocent crafters got caught up in the dragnet, but here is a story of a real life crafter who made a killing by installing hidden safes in cars and trucks. Once word got out with the fine level of product this guy has to offer, it attracted the shady drug trafficing crowd who hired him for his service. The installer wasn't pushing or selling drugs, but he was selling a device that he made which helped them with their illegal trade.

Alfred Anaya Put Secret Compartments in Cars. So the DEA Put Him in Prison

#123 Oct 04 2013 at 5:13 AM Rating: Default
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To me this confirms what a few of us have said.

The gear you sold was bought with gil bought by RMT. It sucks but i am personally not suprised. You can give all the long explanations of where the gil cold come from legitimately, but at the end of the day, on a non-legacy server, the amount of gil you were charging (and getting people to actually pay) is indicative that the gil had to come from ill gotten means.

Im glad you got your account back, but stop trying to deny that you have no idea that selling items for 1m+ on a new server within a month of lunch had to come from gil sellers.
#124 Oct 04 2013 at 5:53 AM Rating: Decent
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rubina wrote:

It stinks that some innocent crafters got caught up in the dragnet, but here is a story of a real life crafter who made a killing by installing hidden safes in cars and trucks. Once word got out with the fine level of product this guy has to offer, it attracted the shady drug trafficing crowd who hired him for his service. The installer wasn't pushing or selling drugs, but he was selling a device that he made which helped them with their illegal trade.

Alfred Anaya Put Secret Compartments in Cars. So the DEA Put Him in Prison


While i do certainly understand your point, the guy in question there made something that could easily be used/abused for something shady, and most likely he knew about this fully well. After all, it's not common (and probably borderline illegal) to install secret compartiments into cars. It's not like he got dragged away for making a very pretty looking steeringwheel with diamonds in it and being sued/locked up because he made it so that a drug-trafficing car was able to drive with it.

In the case of XIV crafters it is like that. If you make a shirt or two, even a really pretty one, it doesnt let the buyer of it wreck of break the game. After all, it was made legally and could be (and is) done by anyone else. The only wrongdoing was that it was bought by someone with RMT'd gil. Which is something impossible to know, even if the set price for it would only be reached by the very elite. There's no telling they didnt simply make that gil legally. After all, not everyone with a million or two in the bank is a criminal. Infact, i'm willing to say most of the people who have are perhaps very dedicated, but certainly did not obtain that with wrong doings.
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#125 Oct 04 2013 at 6:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Glad you got your account back, but it seems my credit card analogy was eerily accurate. You just experienced a virtual credit card charge back. Very sorry you had to experience that.

Not just that the gil was bought from RMT, but also likely that some of those buyers are the ones that figured out the dupe exploit SE patched this week. So it wasn't just gil that was illegally obtained, but gil that shouldn't have been put into the economy in the first place.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 8:04am by Catwho
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#126ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 04 2013 at 9:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you lost gil, they investigated and found you guilty of receiving illicit gil. I was right all along (as usual)
#129ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 04 2013 at 10:22 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Have fun with being a vindictive petty ******* defending the guilty.
#130 Oct 04 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:

Have fun with being a vindictive petty @#%^ defending the guilty.


At least it's better than being a vindictive, petty individual with no reason at all. Which I'm fairly certain from most of your statements and actions indicate of you.
#131 Oct 04 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
AleminaofBismarck wrote:
Update:

Got my account back, my gil was literally divided by 100. Reddit seems to suggest lots of people experienced this. It does not suggest a proper investigation was carried out.

If we assume the people buying 2-star gear from me were using stolen/RMT'd gil, I should at least get the items back. Also, about a third of my gil came solely from selling *lots* of electrum gear, raw mats, and materia. I don't see how that could possibly be RMT.

Also, just by leveling to 50 one earns about 300k. How could dividing by 100 and leaving me with far less than 300k possibly be indicative of what they stated in the e-mail - "Please note that we have removed any items and/or gil that you have earned in an unauthorized manner apart from the minimum amount of gil that will be required to play the game."

How could quest rewards also possibly be unauthorized? No matter how you slice it, even if I'm lying about everything else they obviously @#%^ed up.

If you lost gil, they investigated and found you guilty of receiving illicit gil. I was right all along (as usual)

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 11:08am by ShadowofaDoubt


you're a sad, sad little guy. i feel bad for you.
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#132ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 04 2013 at 11:35 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why because I support SE for going after illcit gil? Geez Im such a douche for wanting a player economy not tainted by RMT. Sorry these people KNEW that with the prices they charged only gil buyers could afford it. They can pretend ignorance, but they knew.
#133 Oct 04 2013 at 12:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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because you don't even know why, that's why.
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#134 Oct 04 2013 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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AleminaofBismarck wrote:
How could quest rewards also possibly be unauthorized? No matter how you slice it, even if I'm lying about everything else they obviously @#%^ed up.

It's rather clear that the "experts" in the stfu have decided that the NPC quest givers are a part of this RMT ring. Smiley: oyvey

Sorry to see they did you like that but I am pleased you were at least able to get your account back.
#135 Oct 04 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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dustinfoley wrote:
To me this confirms what a few of us have said.

The gear you sold was bought with gil bought by RMT. It sucks but i am personally not suprised. You can give all the long explanations of where the gil cold come from legitimately, but at the end of the day, on a non-legacy server, the amount of gil you were charging (and getting people to actually pay) is indicative that the gil had to come from ill gotten means.

Im glad you got your account back, but stop trying to deny that you have no idea that selling items for 1m+ on a new server within a month of lunch had to come from gil sellers.


Interesting. It really does sound like there was some kind of flat out glitch or exploit that put a ton of gil into the game that could not possibly be gathered from regular means.

As has been noted before, the total amount of gil available is based on rewards from quests and items sold to NPCs only. There is no other way to get gil out of the game itself. SE clearly saw far more gil than was possible, and traced it down to everyone who had it, even if those players themselves obtained it legitimately.

Seems like the fix will at least it will help the economy in the long run avoid ridiculous inflation, at the cost of being unfair to many players.

It's sad that at least some players basically lost the items they sold and now have nothing to show for it. The theory that SE was paying employees to go through transactions one-by-one never sounded likely to me. It was more like, account had illicit gil = divide by 100. It's absolutely not a fair way to fix it, but I'll bet somewhere there is a cost-benefit analysis of the all options for the fixes proposed, and this one ended up on top.

Most importantly, I'm glad you got your account back.

Just this once I'm glad to be continually broke.


Edited, Oct 4th 2013 2:29pm by Gnu
#136 Oct 04 2013 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
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AleminaofBismarck wrote:
How could quest rewards also possibly be unauthorized? No matter how you slice it, even if I'm lying about everything else they obviously @#%^ed up.

I honestly think that the market simply got flooded with gil illicitly obtained, so they just pulled all of that gil out of the system. Sadly, because you were selling to people who had some of that, your gil got marked. Why the divide by 100? I am not entirely sure. The upshot is that you have your account. The downside is obvious. At least you were not found to be a gilseller/gilbuyer and banned.
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#137 Oct 04 2013 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Glad you got your account back, but it seems my credit card analogy was eerily accurate. You just experienced a virtual credit card charge back. Very sorry you had to experience that.

Not just that the gil was bought from RMT, but also likely that some of those buyers are the ones that figured out the dupe exploit SE patched this week. So it wasn't just gil that was illegally obtained, but gil that shouldn't have been put into the economy in the first place.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 8:04am by Catwho


I doubt the chargeback included exactly 99% of my gil. Like everyone else suspended, they just took my gil and /100. That is not the hallmark of a thorough investigation.
#138 Oct 04 2013 at 5:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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To this all I can really say is SE's track record speaks for itself. Its task force just looks at certain indicators that is "suspect" (in this case prolly anyone that has a very high amount of gil or gaining gil in only one manor repetitively) and flags it as bannable and moves on without any further investigation. I'm sure anyone from XI can atest to the bannings that happened to people that was using gardening to make money. Guilty or innocent if you were gardening certain items or had more than a few pots you were automatically guilty. lol
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#139 Oct 04 2013 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
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Kind of worries me.

It is very easy, as of this post, to have over 5 million gil on a new server without any crafts leveled. There are certain crafting items and materia that are in high demand. The NPC provides the crafting material. The crafters can make their level 55 items, wear them for a few dungeon runs to spirit bond them, and then convert them into materia very easily. Some of the better level 3 materia sells for 150k+ on Migard. Almost all the level 4 materia sells for 200k on Migard.

Investigation should probably be done before without assuming someone is guilty just because of x amount of gil on an account.


I know of one guy in an LS of mine that had max on all trade skills (non-legacy) before the second week of EA was up. Even accounting for the P4 beta time, how on earth did he level every single craft skill to 50 in that short amount of time?

His gatherers are all in their 30's, and even if they were maxed it would take a good chunk of time to get all the necessary mats by hand, not to mention stuff that just has to be farmed (furble tufts, animal skins/hides/sinew). There simply aren't enough leves available in that time frame to get max crafting. So where did all that xp come from?

SE apparently thinks the same thing, because he's a part of the suspension as well.


Did he also have a DoW/DoM leveled up?


Nope. By the time his crafts were all maxed, his highest class was a mid 30's bard.

Further evidence in support of RMT.
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#140 Oct 04 2013 at 7:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just wanted to voice my own experince; my wife and I was one of the first to hit 50 on new servers, been playing EA and P4 in order to get a headstart. Was one of the few topsellers of mats and crafting goods. Earned quite a lot of Money since we wanted to have enough to buy a big player house and enough to furniture it etc. We never used bots or RMT in this or any other game, yet we got smack with the hammer for 1 week and our gil divided by 100. We used the FREE market to fill our pockets, by setting our price dictated by the demand. In other words; we played the game fairly, and without exploit. So unless there is some commi rule that says you can't set the price to X or Y then I can't really see to why we were suspended and robbed of our hard earned gil?

I won't bother repling to comments like; "your fault for setting a high price yadayada" Fact is; We did nothing wrong, and therefore shouldnt be punished, if you think it's ok that innocent get caught in the crossfire or "convicted" because they behave/seemed like they were guilty then something is wrong with you.
#141 Oct 04 2013 at 11:31 PM Rating: Good
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abesut wrote:
Just wanted to voice my own experince; my wife and I was one of the first to hit 50 on new servers, been playing EA and P4 in order to get a headstart. Was one of the few topsellers of mats and crafting goods. Earned quite a lot of Money since we wanted to have enough to buy a big player house and enough to furniture it etc. We never used bots or RMT in this or any other game, yet we got smack with the hammer for 1 week and our gil divided by 100. We used the FREE market to fill our pockets, by setting our price dictated by the demand. In other words; we played the game fairly, and without exploit. So unless there is some commi rule that says you can't set the price to X or Y then I can't really see to why we were suspended and robbed of our hard earned gil?

I won't bother repling to comments like; "your fault for setting a high price yadayada" Fact is; We did nothing wrong, and therefore shouldnt be punished, if you think it's ok that innocent get caught in the crossfire or "convicted" because they behave/seemed like they were guilty then something is wrong with you.


I don't think it's a matter of you guys having acquired your gil through illicit means, but rather the people who you acquired the gil from received it via an exploit.

There was some kind of gil dupe bug or something in game, that flooded the game with insane amounts of gil. I think SE is removing gil as a hedge against economic inflation in a number of these reported cases.
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The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#142 Oct 05 2013 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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KojiroSoma wrote:
In the case of XIV crafters it is like that.


It's simply setting prices on a new server where the only way for new players to buy the crafted items were to purchase Gil. It's unusual to see prices rapidly creeping up in value instead of the typical under cutting of prices. Probably RMT crafters or RMT agents kept bumping up the prices or purchasing within their group to manipulate sales history which kept raising the prices which stimulated the purchasing of gil. Something was amiss in the markets and some of the crafters chose to ignore it so they can get rich quick.
#143 Oct 05 2013 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
abesut wrote:
Just wanted to voice my own experince; my wife and I was one of the first to hit 50 on new servers, been playing EA and P4 in order to get a headstart. Was one of the few topsellers of mats and crafting goods. Earned quite a lot of Money since we wanted to have enough to buy a big player house and enough to furniture it etc. We never used bots or RMT in this or any other game, yet we got smack with the hammer for 1 week and our gil divided by 100. We used the FREE market to fill our pockets, by setting our price dictated by the demand. In other words; we played the game fairly, and without exploit. So unless there is some commi rule that says you can't set the price to X or Y then I can't really see to why we were suspended and robbed of our hard earned gil?

I won't bother repling to comments like; "your fault for setting a high price yadayada" Fact is; We did nothing wrong, and therefore shouldnt be punished, if you think it's ok that innocent get caught in the crossfire or "convicted" because they behave/seemed like they were guilty then something is wrong with you.


I don't think it's a matter of you guys having acquired your gil through illicit means, but rather the people who you acquired the gil from received it via an exploit.

There was some kind of gil dupe bug or something in game, that flooded the game with insane amounts of gil. I think SE is removing gil as a hedge against economic inflation in a number of these reported cases.


what sucks is that we only used the marketboard, how were we supposed to guard ourselves towards RMTs when we used the marketboard as it was designed?. Also we have still to be compensated for that week SE took from us, our sub kept ticking while we were suspended. Did speak with SE support later today, but they replied with: I can't help you since you violated the terms of agreement. Had to attach my jaw again when I heard it. Asked if I could speak with his superior and what evidence they base it on, but then the connection died. SE did a real blunder here.
#144 Oct 05 2013 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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Imagine if the goverment did this in your country; Merchants/store owners who made a profit by following the law/rules and then the goverments comes and shuts down your business for a week and grabs the majority of your profit, without any trial or evidence, or compensation for the time you lost (at least). Could your imagine the public uprising that would create?
I think it's relevant since this game has a real economy, with real ppl, spending real-time on their Crafts.
#145 Oct 05 2013 at 7:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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rubina wrote:
KojiroSoma wrote:
In the case of XIV crafters it is like that.


It's simply setting prices on a new server where the only way for new players to buy the crafted items were to purchase Gil. It's unusual to see prices rapidly creeping up in value instead of the typical under cutting of prices. Probably RMT crafters or RMT agents kept bumping up the prices or purchasing within their group to manipulate sales history which kept raising the prices which stimulated the purchasing of gil. Something was amiss in the markets and some of the crafters chose to ignore it so they can get rich quick.


Crafters set their prices according to the demand. If prices are creeping up and demand is high, you price your item high. If demand is low, you may be forced to sell low in order to move your product. It's not the job of a crafter to screen the person buying their item to make sure that their currency is legitimate, and there is no system in place that would allow this anyway. The only thing that crafters are guilty of is placing items on the market, and without regulation this is a perfectly legitimate action no matter what they price it at.

Edited, Oct 5th 2013 9:03pm by Susanoh
#146 Oct 05 2013 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
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abesut wrote:
Imagine if the goverment did this in your country; Merchants/store owners who made a profit by following the law/rules and then the goverments comes and shuts down your business for a week and grabs the majority of your profit, without any trial or evidence, or compensation for the time you lost (at least). Could your imagine the public uprising that would create?
I think it's relevant since this game has a real economy, with real ppl, spending real-time on their Crafts.



Is this a joke? You realize in the US if your store sells good and they pay with counterfeit money, the government doesnt reimburse you, you just eat the loss. Which is exactly what happened.
#147 Oct 05 2013 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
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At least businesses can have insurance against that if they pay for it.
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#148 Oct 05 2013 at 7:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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dustinfoley wrote:
abesut wrote:
Imagine if the goverment did this in your country; Merchants/store owners who made a profit by following the law/rules and then the goverments comes and shuts down your business for a week and grabs the majority of your profit, without any trial or evidence, or compensation for the time you lost (at least). Could your imagine the public uprising that would create?
I think it's relevant since this game has a real economy, with real ppl, spending real-time on their Crafts.



Is this a joke? You realize in the US if your store sells good and they pay with counterfeit money, the government doesnt reimburse you, you just eat the loss. Which is exactly what happened.


That's not what it sounds like what happened. From what I've been reading, it's mostly only people with high amounts of gil that this hit, and many are saying that they simply divided the amount of gil by 100. This shows that no significant investigation took place as to who had "counterfeit" gil, and how much. To compare this to the real world, it would be more like a bunch of counterfeit money being put into circulation all over the place, so the government decides to take the richest 1% and take 99% of their money in order to fix things, regardless of whether they are the ones holding all of the counterfeit money or how much of it they had obtained.
#149 Oct 05 2013 at 7:27 PM Rating: Good
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Susanoh wrote:
dustinfoley wrote:
abesut wrote:
Imagine if the goverment did this in your country; Merchants/store owners who made a profit by following the law/rules and then the goverments comes and shuts down your business for a week and grabs the majority of your profit, without any trial or evidence, or compensation for the time you lost (at least). Could your imagine the public uprising that would create?
I think it's relevant since this game has a real economy, with real ppl, spending real-time on their Crafts.



Is this a joke? You realize in the US if your store sells good and they pay with counterfeit money, the government doesnt reimburse you, you just eat the loss. Which is exactly what happened.


That's not what it sounds like what happened. From what I've been reading, it's mostly only people with high amounts of gil that this hit, and many are saying that they simply divided the amount of gil by 100. This shows that no significant investigation took place as to who had "counterfeit" gil, and how much. To compare this to the real world, it would be more like a bunch of counterfeit money being put into circulation all over the place, so the government decides to take the richest 1% and take 99% of their money in order to fix things, regardless of whether they are the ones holding all of the counterfeit money or how much of it they had obtained.


I don't think it was everyone with large amounts of gil. I have a few million myself, and I wasn't touched. It seems like people who have a lot of RMT duped gil got hit.
#150 Oct 05 2013 at 7:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Medieve wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
dustinfoley wrote:
abesut wrote:
Imagine if the goverment did this in your country; Merchants/store owners who made a profit by following the law/rules and then the goverments comes and shuts down your business for a week and grabs the majority of your profit, without any trial or evidence, or compensation for the time you lost (at least). Could your imagine the public uprising that would create?
I think it's relevant since this game has a real economy, with real ppl, spending real-time on their Crafts.



Is this a joke? You realize in the US if your store sells good and they pay with counterfeit money, the government doesnt reimburse you, you just eat the loss. Which is exactly what happened.


That's not what it sounds like what happened. From what I've been reading, it's mostly only people with high amounts of gil that this hit, and many are saying that they simply divided the amount of gil by 100. This shows that no significant investigation took place as to who had "counterfeit" gil, and how much. To compare this to the real world, it would be more like a bunch of counterfeit money being put into circulation all over the place, so the government decides to take the richest 1% and take 99% of their money in order to fix things, regardless of whether they are the ones holding all of the counterfeit money or how much of it they had obtained.


I don't think it was everyone with large amounts of gil. I have a few million myself, and I wasn't touched. It seems like people who have a lot of RMT duped gil got hit.


The number I keep seeing being thrown around is 8 million or higher, some of them being crafters and gatherers who've made hundreds of individual transactions since the game's release (Edit: That is to say, that obviously a good chunk of their money was legitimate, there's absolutely no way that 99% of their profit came from RMT gil).

Edited, Oct 5th 2013 9:33pm by Susanoh
#151 Oct 05 2013 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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Susanoh wrote:
Medieve wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
dustinfoley wrote:
abesut wrote:
Imagine if the goverment did this in your country; Merchants/store owners who made a profit by following the law/rules and then the goverments comes and shuts down your business for a week and grabs the majority of your profit, without any trial or evidence, or compensation for the time you lost (at least). Could your imagine the public uprising that would create?
I think it's relevant since this game has a real economy, with real ppl, spending real-time on their Crafts.



Is this a joke? You realize in the US if your store sells good and they pay with counterfeit money, the government doesnt reimburse you, you just eat the loss. Which is exactly what happened.


That's not what it sounds like what happened. From what I've been reading, it's mostly only people with high amounts of gil that this hit, and many are saying that they simply divided the amount of gil by 100. This shows that no significant investigation took place as to who had "counterfeit" gil, and how much. To compare this to the real world, it would be more like a bunch of counterfeit money being put into circulation all over the place, so the government decides to take the richest 1% and take 99% of their money in order to fix things, regardless of whether they are the ones holding all of the counterfeit money or how much of it they had obtained.


I don't think it was everyone with large amounts of gil. I have a few million myself, and I wasn't touched. It seems like people who have a lot of RMT duped gil got hit.


The number I keep seeing being thrown around is 8 million or higher, some of them being crafters and gatherers who've made hundreds of individual transactions since the game's release (Edit: That is to say, that obviously a good chunk of their money was legitimate, there's absolutely no way that 99% of their profit came from RMT gil).

Edited, Oct 5th 2013 9:33pm by Susanoh


There's one person on the official boards who actually claims that although he did lose > 25 million gil, he still kept ~10 million.

And ALL of the gil that was lost was on retainers.

If the claim is true, then the theory that it's just a flat 1/100 all round doesn't sound right.
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