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#1 Oct 01 2013 at 11:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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So I flagged up for the baby dungeons on conjurer on Taprara Rara yesterday because I'm still trying to gear her up in preparation for the stuff in the 20s. I'm sorted into Copperbell, and we get about three rooms in and our tank quits out of the blue. No warning... We had been doing very well, too. I don't know what his/her deal was.

While we wait for Duty Finder to get us a fresh tank, me and the two DPS continue crawling along tank-less. We pause for a few minutes at the first blasting device, but then shrug and decide to give it a go. Success! We survived. As conjurer, I ended up being a blood tank more often than not, but as long as I didn't run out of MP, it was cool.

Things go along more or less the same til we get to the flan room. On our first try we managed to get the flan to split into four, but all three of us got caught in the bomb and had to restart. At this point, one of the DPS decides he's had enough and leaves. Before me and the other DPS can dissolve and end the run, Duty Finder dutifully fills in our second DPS slot - with a guy who needs the clear since we got the message about this being a "first time duty" for the player.

***** it, let's do this, we said. We took out the flan on the second try.

We actually managed to deal with the rest of the run and the final giants without a tank, and got the replacement DPS the win he needed for the story.

I actually used my ether macro for the first time. MP was a bit of an issue the entire time since there was zilch damage mitigation.

I doubt this is possible at the upper level runs, but if you tank is gone at these lower level runs, just go ahead and finish it out. You'll probably make it.

Edited, Oct 1st 2013 1:11pm by Catwho
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#2 Oct 01 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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I did the thousand maws with 3 people no tank... well no real tank but we had carby. The thank left after the second pull so we started clearing the trash while waiting and ended up finishing it. Party was conjurer(me), arcanist and thaumaturge.
#3 Oct 01 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have done the lower dungeons with 2 dps and me on cnj. At those levels, it works just fine. The only thing that you need to do is make sure that everyone is aware that they will get hit, hate will be wonky, and do not run around like a scared little child. I notice this more with the ranged dps (thm, arc, and acn). When you get hit, you have to stand still. Trust that your healer will keep you alive. The melee dps and tank have a much harder time getting hate off of you if you are constantly pulling the mob out of their normal damage range. Yes, they have some ranged damage, but the bulk of their attacks have to have the mob in range (and in many cases, standing in the same position long enough to get a string of attacks off).

If everyone understands that hate will be jumping, and that the healer will either keep them alive or die trying, then the 2 dps/1 healer completions should work at least through thousand maws of toto rok.


On an extra fun note, I did a thousand maws run the other night with my FC. We went 3 dps and me on cnj (since I only level cnj while I wait for my myth tome counter to reset, so I do not consider myself a good healer). But, everyone did their part, kept hate off of me as best as they could, and I kept them healed. I don't think a single person died in that run, and we cleared it in about 28 minutes while killing everything in the zone.
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#4 Oct 01 2013 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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Yup, I posted awhile ago in P3 that I beat Copperbell with me as a Lancer, an Archer and Conjurer. We cleared the slime room easily, it was the trash after that was the hardest.

The final boss was easy too but we cut it close. I tanked and the Archer dealt with the adds. We barely won, but it was (still) one of the most fun times I've had.

I think that you could only do things like this in the early dungeons and that later bosses just hit way too hard.

BTW A majority of my DF groups have been excellent. A few have been clunkers and only one devolved into a name calling match. I've had good luck so far!
#5 Oct 01 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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It can actually be a lot of fun going into the lower level dungeons with an unorthodox party, as long as a spellcaster is willing to play healer. I think the hard cutoff point of being able to get away with this is Haukke Manor. (I don't see how this would work in Brayflox on the last boss.)
#6 Oct 01 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's successful, unorthodox groups like this where the Duty Finder really hurts my feelings. I joined an in progress group for Cutter's Cry on Bard and got to do the whole dungeon up to the final boss with just me and a BLM. We got a full party right at the end, and we skipped a couple of floors for time, so I can't say we duo'd the whole thing, but it sure was fun. But in classic Duty Finder fashion, the BLM wasn't on my server. Hurt my heart a little bit.
#7 Oct 01 2013 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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CrazyLegzMcGee wrote:
It's successful, unorthodox groups like this where the Duty Finder really hurts my feelings. I joined an in progress group for Cutter's Cry on Bard and got to do the whole dungeon up to the final boss with just me and a BLM. We got a full party right at the end, and we skipped a couple of floors for time, so I can't say we duo'd the whole thing, but it sure was fun. But in classic Duty Finder fashion, the BLM wasn't on my server. Hurt my heart a little bit.


Cutter's Cry is where the black mage first gets the change to shine. I have kited the chimera and have aoe massacred the ants plenty of times as blm, and it was incredibly satisfying Smiley: grin
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#8 Oct 02 2013 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
Our healer DC'd at the beginning of DZ Darkhold.

We made it all the way to the first eye boss and had him down to a sliver before we all wiped. Was eye opening to think we could get that far without a healer.

We had a Pld, War, Brd
#9 Oct 02 2013 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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I love it when a tank rage quits, and we all just finish the dungeon without him.

When I was doing the level 30 guildhest "More than a feeler" where you have to fight Toxic Tamlyn, we failed twice since we couldn't get the adds down fast enough. On our third try the tank rage-quit, shortly followed by the healer.

I was on Pugilist and the other DD was an archer. We just kept going, didn't say a word. The archer started kiting the adds around while I tanked and burnt the boss down. I died two or three times, but luckily you can just get right back up again, go get hate on the boss and keep going. We ended up winning the fight just the two of us.
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#10 Oct 02 2013 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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one time while running CM i joined a group in progress at the second boss. The other tank whic was a warrior was AFK'ing at the start (yes the tank).

I have good gear on my paladin so i told the party not to worry we can still win, tanking the area solo isn't THAT hard.

so the plan for the second boss was simple: i tank the boss at the right gate, and also tank the mobs that spawn through there. the DPS job was to grab the other adds so the mages don't die. That went down with no problems at all while i tanked the magitek and reaper.

After that is just cannons so i'll just skip to the third boss.

for the third boss i tanked the main boss and again the DPS dealt with adds. when the magitek spawned i grabbed it and tanked both it and the main boss. As long as you don't get hit with it's lightning attack your good.

More cannons

we then get to magitek livia and we all know how that goes, it's not hard at all so we down her. For the actual fight we just do as normal and for the collosus i again tanked it with the boss, but the melee had to stand behind them both so they wouldn't get hit with the collosus swing attack. Popped rampart as needed. the boss went down.

i actually got thanked by 3 of them because they were about to leave the duty and thought i wouldn't be able to tank the whole thing alone. 2 of them got the clear so it would have sucked if they had wasted all that time to not win. When i got in there, there was 67 minutes left (i don't know how but they stayed that long despite only being on second boss).

The only thing that annoyed me was that warrior got a free ride. I was surprised to see a warrior AFK'ing since usually you need those to win stuff.
#11 Oct 02 2013 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
DownWithTheSickness wrote:
Our healer DC'd at the beginning of DZ Darkhold.

We made it all the way to the first eye boss and had him down to a sliver before we all wiped. Was eye opening to think we could get that far without a healer.

We had a Pld, War, Brd

We've done Halatali with out a tank. He dropped when the whm died during the first boss. We sat and waited and no one came, so we decided to progress and did the whole dungeon with 3 people. Who thought a DRG could tank it... lol.
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#12 Oct 02 2013 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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My coolest moment like this was on the final boss of DZ Darkhold. The tank DC's near the beginning of the fight and we 3 manned the it with SCH (myself), BRD, and Lancer. Very very fun stuff
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#13 Oct 02 2013 at 9:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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The best moment that I ever experienced in DF was my first encounter with Garuda. All four of us have never tried before so it was our first time seeing her and all we kept talking about before we started is how we hear she is a nightmare to beat. So naturally we run in and wipe and we kept at it wipe after wipe but each wipe we learned more and more about her and what we had to do.

We did this the entire fight and we used all of the instance time in the end we won with 5 minutes on the clock. That had to be one of the best moments for me cause even though we kept wiping and wiping instead of ******** and complaining we sucked it up each time and learned from our mistakes and kept a confident head and we ended up taking her down.

I love moments like this especially in DF when you know nothing of the ppl you are paired with but end up having the patience to push through instead of the most type of reactions you would expect like "OMFG THIS TEAM SUX"

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 11:30pm by Konfuzzle

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 11:32pm by Konfuzzle
#14 Oct 03 2013 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
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Konfuzzle wrote:
The best moment that I ever experienced in DF was my first encounter with Garuda. All four of us have never tried before so it was our first time seeing her and all we kept talking about before we started is how we hear she is a nightmare to beat. So naturally we run in and wipe and we kept at it wipe after wipe but each wipe we learned more and more about her and what we had to do.

We did this the entire fight and we used all of the instance time in the end we won with 5 minutes on the clock. That had to be one of the best moments for me cause even though we kept wiping and wiping instead of ******** and complaining we sucked it up each time and learned from our mistakes and kept a confident head and we ended up taking her down.


Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 11:30pm by Konfuzzle

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 11:32pm by Konfuzzle



Great post, this is exactly how my Titan fight went. When he finally went down with 2 minutes to spare on the clock it felt great. That type of team work, patience, and perseverance is a great feeling. It's just sad that far too many people are obsessed with zerg rushing content to just slow down and enjoy the social experience. I can always tell when a DF pug is going to work out and when it won't. As long as people are willing to take the time to actually communicate you can have a great experience.
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#15 Oct 03 2013 at 1:00 AM Rating: Decent
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This was the main reason people were saying the game was really easy. I know we're still early in ARR's life, but there were a lot of reports of people doing things they didn't expect to be able to do.
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#16 Oct 03 2013 at 1:34 AM Rating: Good
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This reminds me a lot of how the static group I was part of completed the original chains of promathia. Wipe, reassess attempt again and not once did anyone get angry. The Mammets fight is a specific example of this.

The level capped promyvions as well. I think Mea was tough for a lot of people simple because the aggro choke points were so friggin tough. I walked a lot of my friends through chains of promathia to help them get sea access. The most rewarding moment I had was when I buddy of mine (BLM) didn't realize the dolphins were non damage aggro mobs unless you casted something damaging to them. He freaked out and casted sleepga on them just as I was attempting to inform him they're harmless right? LOL next thing I see the tarutaru hauling **** right over a shark (which he did NOT see) nor the UFO. I have this screenshot of him training all these mobs to the front gate and getting killed by the shark and the UFO.

Goodtimes and I just derailed the thread lol my apologies. Had to share though. I can already see myself doing something similar in xiv and having more memorable and recorded moments.
#17 Oct 03 2013 at 2:15 AM Rating: Decent
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I have good gear on my paladin so i told the party not to worry we can still win, tanking the area solo isn't THAT hard.


Yep, 1 tank is fine for CM. If you're feeling really punchy try it with 1 tank 1 heal and 6 DPS.
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#18 Oct 03 2013 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
This was the main reason people were saying the game was really easy. I know we're still early in ARR's life, but there were a lot of reports of people doing things they didn't expect to be able to do.


You can do the same in every low-level WoW instance. What's your point?

The difficulty ramps up. If you think you're going to get by without a tank when you near the end, you're in for a rude awakening.

Speaking of which, I think it's time we resumed that lovely discussion we were having about your conjecture regarding the fall of FFXIV's economy because everyone would become self-sufficient. Look forward to it!
#19 Oct 03 2013 at 7:06 AM Rating: Good
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I have two characters and have now experienced the three beginning dungeons with each character -- a total of 6 times through. (Sastasha, Tam Tara, Copperbell). Sad to say, of these 6 times, only ONE time have I had a positive experience with the Duty Finder. That was the Copperbell dungeon last night at 2 AM.

My 4-person party was an archer (me), archanist, BLM and gladiator. Two of the three actually spoke to me! I was thrilled. Everything was cool with them. We had something like 20 minutes left and were finally ready to head for the big boss at the end. Then....our BLM dc'd.

Our tank said she had beat this dungeon with just 3 people before. She told me to just keep hitting the main big boss, and she would kite him and all of the adds. This was exactly the opposite of the last time I was in Copperbell -- I was told to kill the adds before they could break the walls. But, standing firm and hitting the big guy with arrows sounded like a lot more fun. She really did kite them all....it was totally amazing, and no deaths. It's sad to say that nowadays it seems negative comes up more randomly than positive in the Duty Finder.....but I wanted to share with you all my positive experience.
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#20 Oct 03 2013 at 3:03 PM Rating: Default
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
This was the main reason people were saying the game was really easy. I know we're still early in ARR's life, but there were a lot of reports of people doing things they didn't expect to be able to do.


You can do the same in every low-level WoW instance. What's your point?


My point is that if people breeze through the early instances in the game, they'll get the impression that it's easy or that the group composition isn't relevant. It was evident by the complaints people had both here and in other forums. They were looking forward to(read: expected it to be) more of a challenge. Catwho is probably an exception due to her experience. I remember seeing her around ages ago in XI so I don't doubt that the experience played a part in the ease of clearing without proper setup, but even groups who aren't pro have a relatively easy time.

I really don't care if people want to take shots at WoW. It's common on these forums, but at least try to keep the conversation in context of initial discussion. You're comparing a game that is 8 years old to something that isn't even 8 weeks old. Do you remember running instances without a tank shortly after WoW's release? Something tells me you didn't actually play it back then. Things may be different now, but if you're going to make the comparison at least set even terms. You wouldn't have been able to clear even some packs of trash without wiping several times in the process in some of WoW's mid-game instances back then.



HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Speaking of which, I think it's time we resumed that lovely discussion we were having about your conjecture regarding the fall of FFXIV's economy because everyone would become self-sufficient. Look forward to it!


I knew you worked for SE Smiley: sly

I will concede that I was wrong. Terribly wrong. I admit full responsibility for my claim that players wouldn't turn to other players to turn a profit on their goods because of their ability to self-sustain. In actuality, now players are just scared to sell their goods to other players to make a profit for fear of being suspended or banned. Well played SE, well played. Smiley: laugh
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#21 Oct 03 2013 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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XI's difficulty levels at the lower end were notorious. The joke in XI, that still stands today, is: No matter what level you are, there will always be a bunny rabbit someplace that can kick your ***.

Level 1 in Ronfaure? Stick with the Wild Rabbits til level 5... don't touch the Field Hare NO DON'T TOUCH THE FIELD HARE- *splat*

Level 99 in Abyssea? You can solo the bunnies, but you better not try to solo Gnawtooth Gary unless you're a BST - haha, look at that THF/DNC, he had to use a brew on Gnawtooth Gary!

XI didn't even have a real instanced "dungeon" type fight until level 25, with the dragon and the ahriman. For many years we believed it would take six people to do it no matter what. Then we tried with five... four.... three.... a duo... then this SAM with a full medicine chest managed to solo it. Crazy.

You're right, experience makes a big difference in difficulty. Not even just my experience form XI, but the fact that I've run Copperbell on CNJ a dozen times now and I know how to push myself to the limit.
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#22 Oct 03 2013 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
XI's difficulty levels at the lower end were notorious. The joke in XI, that still stands today, is: No matter what level you are, there will always be a bunny rabbit someplace that can kick your ***.


I have genuinely wanted them to make an Adamantoise-sized hare for FFXI's final boss. I would seriously come back simply to see it.

And you're right, the more MMO time under your belt, the better you get at assessing a situation and quickly turning it to your advantage. I can tell you my time spent on BST in FFXI was made infinitely easier by playing Hunter in WoW, both of which made playing Mastermind in CoH/CoV child's play. The fact is, the more you play in one genre, the more you understand that genre.

Catwho wrote:
Level 99 in Abyssea? You can solo the bunnies, but you better not try to solo Gnawtooth Gary unless you're a BST - haha, look at that THF/DNC, he had to use a brew on Gnawtooth Gary!


Yea, or NIN/DNC or DNC/NIN or PUP/anything. ****, my last run on that idiot, I had to stay turned as to not smear him across the field too fast.
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#23 Oct 03 2013 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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leave the poor bunnies alone!
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#24 Oct 03 2013 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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Hey, Gnawtooth brought it on himself by hoarding all those **** seals....
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#25 Oct 03 2013 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
The DF has honestly been pretty good overall. I run into to problems with shout pugs more then I do with DF. I've had less then optimal parties for HM Ifrit, and 90% of the time everyone's game for a different strategy, usually ending with a win.
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#26 Oct 03 2013 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I have had overall really good experiences in DF, only once had a Tank who dropped the group right at the start without a word, three of us cleared trash until DF found us another. Every other issue has been pretty legit, one tank getting legitimately DC'ed, but he kept coming back and was really apologetic and one time one of our DDs wife came home while he was sepose to be working :P (we cleared trash for 20 min while he sorted it out and came back to help finish the dungeon). Other than those, ive had really positive groups where everyone chimes in if needed and is really supportive and helpful of each other.
#27 Oct 03 2013 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
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Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Yea, or NIN/DNC or DNC/NIN or PUP/anything. ****, my last run on that idiot, I had to stay turned as to not smear him across the field too fast.


Yeah. I do a lot of my DDing on THF/DNC. but I kind of cheat and use Gusterion as my off hand to Aphotic Kukri, so I'm half a /NIN as well with free blinks every other swing. THF/DNC can do a lot of stuff it shouldn't with that dagger.
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#28 Oct 03 2013 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
The DF has honestly been pretty good overall.



Agreed. I can say very objectively that somewhere in the range of 80-90% of my DF groups have been a positive experience. Granted the other 10-20% are bad, but it's usually due to the ignorance of a single person. This means, to me at least, that the FFXIV community by and large are great people to play with.
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#29 Oct 05 2013 at 12:33 AM Rating: Good
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I agree that the DF has mostly been decent.

The only thing I don't really like about it is that if someone goes afk with the intention of leeching, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Would be nice if there was a vote-kick option that becomes available only on people who go afk for at least 5-10 minutes or something.
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#30 Oct 05 2013 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
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Threx wrote:
I agree that the DF has mostly been decent.

The only thing I don't really like about it is that if someone goes afk with the intention of leeching, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Would be nice if there was a vote-kick option that becomes available only on people who go afk for at least 5-10 minutes or something.


Vote kick option could be used badly though say some ppl see the person who joined isnt in the best gear or something they can vote kick them til someone better suited comes in, It does suck when ppl leech but there sh.ould be some type of measure against this.

Edit: Never mind i missed where you said on ppl who go afk for 5-10mins sorry XD

Edited, Oct 5th 2013 3:06am by Konfuzzle
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