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#1 Oct 02 2013 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Previously, the member Hairspray posted a thread about repeatable levequest for DoH's. This was a great list for anyone looking to level a DoH (repeat leves are only open once you hit lvl 20) and did not want to mindlessly grind through the levels simply by make a warehouse full of items.

Since I had just recently started WVR I checked out the list and did the quest "Hitting below the belt" in Ul'dah. As it goes it was easy enough to HQ the required items and collect my 16,281 EXP (5,427 base exp + 10,854 bonus exp, bonus is always double when HQ items are turned in). The Gil received is also always doubled, but the reward items such as shards/webs ect ect are not.

You should always aim for leve's lower then your current level to maximize your chances of HQing, obviously.

The quest "Hitting below the belt" is a repeatable levequest which means i can turn in additional items without having to use up another leve allowance. The NPC related to the quest will offer you this option once you turn in the first items.

This is **** good exp for what little effort is put into it, but repeatable leves are not always the best way to go. If you are really low on leve allowances and need the most bang for you buck, then doing repeatable leves are the best as 1 leve = 3 turn ins. However, if you have a good bit of leves built up then single use leves would be a better option.

I will compare WVR levequest (as it is the only craft i have leveled at this time) 'Hitting below the belt", a lvl 20 repeatable levequest, to "Getting handys" and "Doublet Jeopardy", both lvl 20 single levequests in terms of rewards (HQ results only) and items required.

Hitting below the Belt - Repeatable.
Items: 3 Cotton Breeches of Crafting.
- 3 Lightning shards
- 3 Wind shards.
- 3 Leathers.
- 6 Undyed Cotton Cloth.
- 3 Cotton Yarn.
TOTAL EXP: 16,281 per turn in.
EXP per leve: 48,843.
904.5 exp per ingredient used if you do 3 turn-ins for the leve.

Getting Handys - Single.
Items: 1 Cotton Dress Gloves.
- 1 Wind shard.
- 2 Lightning shards.
- 2 Cotton Cloth.
- 2 Cotton Yarn.
TOTAL EXP: 19,119 per turn in.
EXP per leve: 19,119
2,731.2 exp per ingredient used.

Doublet Jeopardy - Single.
Items: 1 Cotton Doublet Vest of Gathering.
- 2 Lightning shards.
- 1 Wind shard.
- 1 Brass Ingot.
- 1 Hard leather.
- 1 Cotton Cloth.
- 1 Cotton Yarn.
TOTAL EXP: 30,867 per turn in.
EXP per leve: 30,867
4,409.5 exp per ingredient used.

As you can see, the repeatable leve does net a greater amount of EXP per leve but the EXP per ingredient used is far lower when compared to the single use leves. So, if you are short on leve allowances then repeatable leves are better, but if you have allowances just lying around, as I do because i don't use them for anything else, then single use ones seem to be better.

"Getting Handys" leve is my personal favorite thus far due to the items being incredibly easy to farm up and to HQ. This leve alone took me from 28-33 in minutes.

I hope this was useful to those looking to level a DoH job. Happy crafting.



Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 9:11am by RyanSquires

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 4:23pm by RyanSquires
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#2 Oct 02 2013 at 6:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Also hurts less on the shard usage.
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#3 Oct 02 2013 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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TwilightSkye wrote:
Also hurts less on the shard usage.


True, and the single use ones usually do net you shards after so many uses. I know the getting handys one does offer diremite webs at first, then goes to lightning shards.
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#4 Oct 02 2013 at 7:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I have been thinking about the same things really.

It's true that 3 turn-ins worth a total of 9 HQ's will net you more EXP than simply doing 3 leves where you turn in one HQ each.

But that not only means you need to get more materials, it also means you need to get lucky and HQ those more frequently as well.

In the long run, if you simply have a lot of Leves left, it's probably best if you just turn in HQ singles instead of the 3/3 ones that turn into 9/9.

That said, i have been guilty spamming the 9 turn-in ones myself, but that was more because i could HQ the lower ones pretty much guaranteed when i hit mid-40s and wanted it over and done with.
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#5 Oct 02 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
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The "Getting handys" quest for me is still netting me great exp at lvl 33 so i will continue to do that until the exp loses it's luster. If i find another leve higher and it is just as easy to gather / HQ the items then i will move onto that one. But, for now "getting handys" is just to easy to pass up. Farming the cotton balls is all that is needed, super fast and easy.

EDIT: Doublet Jepordy is starting to get easier too due to the ingot getting easier to HQ too.



Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 9:11am by RyanSquires
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#6 Oct 02 2013 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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Well one thing you will see as you start to get a few of the higher end skills (cul 37 and weaver 50) is that getting HQ on same level levequests gets easier and easier.

It takes me 4 leves to go from 35 to 40, using the repeatable (triple) levequests. On average I HQ 8/9 of the items, but usually i can get all 9 and just sell the non-hq ones on the market board and make up the difference. You dont even have to HQ the subs, its rather easy to make HQ with NQ raws, however HQ makes it WAY easier. What I will do is count how many of each reagent i need to do 4 leves, and try to HQ all the subs (more for exp than for needing the HQ), and that alone takes you from 35-36, then do 1 set of leves (9 combines at around 6-10k a combine depending on exp scroll and rest exp) and hand in for 150k+ exp. You only do 1 at a time so that you will level before you start the next set, thus making it easier.

Technically speaking, the best exp/leve are deemed 'courier'. It starts in town and asks you to deliver a single item to a level specific outpost. AKA "Doublet Jepordy", the snag being you need to favorite both locations or you lose money on teleporting back and forth. If I am doing courier i will set uldah (or w/e city they start in) as the home point, make a HQ item, TP to destination, and hand in, then do 1-2 hq single item leves while there while waiting on the return time to repop.
#7 Oct 02 2013 at 7:56 AM Rating: Good
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I'll have to tell Crystal Light about the single turn-in ones. She doesn't mind burning the single ones as long as she gets levelled up faster and with less effort.

I'm a big fan of the triple leves... for some reason I like seeing big huge EXP numbers fly by at the end.
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#8 Oct 02 2013 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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I got extremely lucky on my first attempt of this. Hasty Touch didn't fail on an excellent(hate it when it does that.) But at my level(WVR21) I can't see myself consistently HQing. This is good though because I was dreading the triple turn ins for this reason. At least I only have to worry about failing to HQ the result. HQing the mats themselves is easy.
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#9 Oct 02 2013 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have been using the single use Leves in order to change the rewards offered. Rewards for all offered Leves will change whenever you turn in any Leve.

So I'm trying to horde Diremite Webs, I turn in the single turn-in Initiate's Slops until the reward for the Triple turn-in Leve changes to Diremite webs. Only then do I accept the Triple turn-in Leve.

If you have huge back-log of Leve allowances then you can use them however seems most beneficial, including manipulating the rewards before accepting a Leve.
#10 Oct 02 2013 at 8:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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First off, this thread has gone this long without anyone commenting on "Getting Handys"...

Secondly, later when recipes require odd ingredients that you can't simply buy off the vendor is when you have to worry about things. Typically the multi-turn-in quests use lesser, or easier to gather, components and the single turn ins require more difficult/cross-class ingredients. But there is some logic, if you're hemorrhaging allowances then there's no reason you can't blow through some single-craft leves if you can HQ them--if the materials are available.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 9:34am by Krycis
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#11 Oct 02 2013 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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Krycis wrote:
First off, this thread has gone this long without anyone commenting on "Getting Handys"...

Secondly, later when recipes require odd ingredients that you can't simply buy off the vendor is when you have to worry about things. Typically the multi-turn-in quests use lesser, or easier to gather, components and the single turn ins require more difficult/cross-class ingredients. But there is some logic, if you're hemorrhaging allowances then there's no reason you can't blow through some single-craft leves if you can HQ them--if the materials are available.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 9:34am by Krycis

For a quick note on Alchemy (which I think people are either not leveling up, or are not familiar with), once you hit 35, you get nearly a free shot to 50. I found it interesting, because you can't actually sell the HQ result on the ward for this for some reason (nobody buying?)...

But Paralyzing Pots have some of the easiest to obtain ingredients in the game, and it's a 5x by 3x turn-in for the triple, giving nearly 90k to start, and by level 49 you are still getting 60K+ per turn in.

For the most part, I have found that the level 35 leves in general are the best ones to do for the repeat turn-ins, as they tend to use the easiest ingredients for the most exp gain. I have gotten Carpenter, Alchemy, and Weaving from 36-50 now just from those leves, and I am already almost back up to my full leve allowance.
#12 Oct 02 2013 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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I found a good indication of weather or not i can reguarly create HQ items using NQ items is by doing a simple 'test run' which can change pattern depending on the condition of the item. The item has to be able to be completed with 1 CAREFUL SYNTHESIS.

For a basic run let's say that all the conditions are under normal;

STEADY HANDS > GREAT STRIDES > STANDARD TOUCH > STANDARD TOUCH > STANDARD TOUCH > CAREFUL SYNTHESIS.

This pattern will usually result in a minimum of 40% chance to HQ. But, odds are you will get at least one GOOD condition during the process, at which point you change up the pattern when you see a GOOD or EXCELLENT appear. Example:

STEADY HANDS > good condition > STANDARD TOUCH > GREAT STRIDES > STANDARD TOUCH
> STANDARD TOUCH > CAREFUL SYNTHESIS.

If an Excellent pops after STEADY HANDS, it's pretty much a 100% HQ. STANDARD TOUCH while under STEADY HANDS is a 100% success. (80% from ST and 20% increase from SH)

I also throw in a OBSERVE after GREAT STRIDES in hopes of turning a normal into a good condition.
There may be other methods, but for me currently (33 WVR), this works amazingly well for turning NQ cotton balls into HQ yarn. And usually i only need 1 NQ and 1 HQ yarn to make HQ cloth. This also works for "Getting Handys" leve.

Hope this helps.


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#13 Oct 02 2013 at 9:14 AM Rating: Excellent
RyanSquires wrote:
I found a good indication of weather or not i can reguarly create HQ items using NQ items is by doing a simple 'test run' which can change pattern depending on the condition of the item. The item has to be able to be completed with 1 CAREFUL SYNTHESIS.

For a basic run let's say that all the conditions are under normal;

STEADY HANDS > GREAT STRIDES > STANDARD TOUCH > STANDARD TOUCH > STANDARD TOUCH > CAREFUL SYNTHESIS.

This pattern will usually result in a minimum of 40% chance to HQ. But, odds are you will get at least one GOOD condition during the process, at which point you change up the pattern when you see a GOOD or EXCELLENT appear. Example:

STEADY HANDS > good condition > STANDARD TOUCH > GREAT STRIDES > STANDARD TOUCH
> STANDARD TOUCH > CAREFUL SYNTHESIS.

If an Excellent pops after STEADY HANDS, it's pretty much a 100% HQ. STANDARD TOUCH while under STEADY HANDS is a 100% success. (80% from ST and 20% increase from SH)

I also throw in a OBSERVE after GREAT STRIDES in hopes of turning a normal into a good condition.
There may be other methods, but for me currently (33 WVR), this works amazingly well for turning NQ cotton balls into HQ yarn. And usually i only need 1 NQ and 1 HQ yarn to make HQ cloth. This also works for "Getting Handys" leve.

Hope this helps.




Interesting, I'll try this later. I've been having good success HQing completed items with the Hasty Touch method. Been getting a consistent 3 out of 5 with a solid chance at a fourth. I don't have Steady Hand 2 so I'm assuming that it will get better when I do.
#14 Oct 02 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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At that level, I did the same type of cost/benefit analysis, and decided to go with the single turn in leve in Uldah called "Don't Sash Me".

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Don%27t_Sash_Me

The turn in is a single cotton sash, requiring only 3 cotton cloth and one cotton yarn.

In my lower 20's, I'd start with cotton bolls so I could HQ as much cloth/yarn as I could, but later in the 20's, I was buying cotton yarn from the alchemists guild and was still able to HQ reliably.

This worked very well, but I ran through 45 allowances very quickly. I recently switched to culinarian an have had to rely on repeatable leves to help with my allowances.

tl;dr : Single turn ins can be very good, but you're limited by allowances in the long run (especially if you're leveling multiple professions)
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#15 Oct 02 2013 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:

Interesting, I'll try this later. I've been having good success HQing completed items with the Hasty Touch method. Been getting a consistent 3 out of 5 with a solid chance at a fourth. I don't have Steady Hand 2 so I'm assuming that it will get better when I do.


If you get SH II, then don't use STANDARD TOUCH as you will be basically wasting the CP. SH II will probably benefit more form BASIC TOUCH and reduce the amount of CP you use, therefore providing you more CP to use elsewhere during the process.

I am not saying the way I do it is best, just thought I'd mention my method. Food for thought. ^.^
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#16 Oct 02 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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I can't do that at my level. Great Strides + Steady Hand = burn through my meager CP that TotT isn't going to help with.

When turning cotton into yarn(without using HQ cotton as a mat), I IQ+SH and Hasty Touch all the way and then Master Mend. 2-3 Hasty Touches and then Careful Synthesis the rest.

I'd say I HQ 40% of the time >_>.


Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 11:46am by TwilightSkye
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#17 Oct 02 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I find it quite easy to HQ now provided it's a 70 or 80 durability item. HQing the 40 ones are very tricky when the synth is around your actual level. Best thing I did was get Steady Hand II.
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#18 Oct 02 2013 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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The one ability that I think is truly priceless when crafting is Inner Quiet. The steady increase of Quality for success is beyond awesome. Using that with Advanced touch (for later level crafting) has gotten me (on lucky attempts of having Great Strides up, with Excellent condition mind you) over 1500 points in a single action.
#19 Oct 02 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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Ok thought I'd chime in on this. First off if you have Steady Hands II you obviously have access to Hasty Hands, this completely replaces Basic touch as long as you have the SH buff. While HH doesn't completely replace Basic touch, e.g. you have enough durability left to go for one more attempt at quality but only enough cp for BT but not enough for even a SH I, use BT. Second, never, ever use great strides early in a synth, use it when you have several stacks of Inner quiet, that way you get the most bang for your buck.

Basically my rotation is this for 40 dura items. IQ>SH II> Manip/Waste not I/II> HT > HT > Ht > Ht> Gs> largest available touch for the level> Gs> largest available touch for the level> Careful Synth I/II. if the Item requires more than Careful Synth to finish I subtract a HT from the rotation so i can tack on the end. Now if the item needs 3 or more careful synths to finish, you are going to need to be blessed by the RNG to HQ meaning its too high to play with or your craftsmanship is too low, either way its not worth ******** with.

I use a similar rotation for the 80 Dura synths but you have more leeway when it comes to those so you can experiment with them a bit to find what works with you, but my advice for a new synth you havent done before is increase progress till you need one more turn to finish then increase quality.
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#20 Oct 02 2013 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
TwilightSkye wrote:
I can't do that at my level. Great Strides + Steady Hand = burn through my meager CP that TotT isn't going to help with.

When turning cotton into yarn(without using HQ cotton as a mat), I IQ+SH and Hasty Touch all the way and then Master Mend. 2-3 Hasty Touches and then Careful Synthesis the rest.

I'd say I HQ 40% of the time >_>.


Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 11:46am by TwilightSkye


If you don't have it get ALC to 15 Tricks of the Trade and CRP to 15 for Rumination. Both help a ton for CP.
#21 Oct 02 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you are constantly running out of levequest allowances, then a triple turn in leve is better than a single turn in, since you're maximizing the amount of exp per leve allowance. On the other hand, if you constantly have a surplus of levequest allowances, then single turn in leves tend to be better, since they maximize the amount of exp per materials used.

Even if you have a surplus of leve allowances, the triple turn in ones are worth doing if the reward offered is one of the more valuable staples (e.g. diremite webs, fleece, etc), since you get that reward for each turn in.

At lvl 46 Weaving, I have been sticking with mostly the lvl 40 or lvl 35 not because I have a better chance at HQing the required items as compared to the ones for the lvl 45 leves, but because the lvl 40 and lvl 35 ones just require linen (and flax is cheap). The lvl 45 ones require wool, and fleece costs 5 to 10 times as much as flax. So that's another factor worth considering.
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#22 Oct 02 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
TwilightSkye wrote:
I can't do that at my level. Great Strides + Steady Hand = burn through my meager CP that TotT isn't going to help with.

When turning cotton into yarn(without using HQ cotton as a mat), I IQ+SH and Hasty Touch all the way and then Master Mend. 2-3 Hasty Touches and then Careful Synthesis the rest.

I'd say I HQ 40% of the time >_>.


Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 11:46am by TwilightSkye


If you don't have it get ALC to 15 Tricks of the Trade and CRP to 15 for Rumination. Both help a ton for CP.

TotT = Tricks of the Trade, so I have that.

I've been putting off leveling CRP.
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#23 Oct 02 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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Happy to see so many others sharing their methods. This should be a good source for anyone looking to level a DoH.

Thanks everyone for sharing.
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#24 Oct 02 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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RyanSquires wrote:


STEADY HANDS > GREAT STRIDES > STANDARD TOUCH > STANDARD TOUCH > STANDARD TOUCH > CAREFUL SYNTHESIS.



I would suggest Great Strides first, before steady hands. Since Great Strides last for 3 steps but will go away at the first successful touch, you lose pretty much nothing (except if you fails your 2 first touchs) but gain one more steps at the end under the effect of Steady Hands. This is will allow you (if you have the CP) to do one more Great Strides in the middle of all the standard touchs.

And also, since you will have 2 step with the effect of Great Strides active, you have one more chance to hit excellent condition while Great Strides is there. Great Strides + Excellent condition = HQ (most of the time)

Finally, since your last step will be under Steady hand (even while following your way, you can use basic Synthesis, it's still gonna be 100%)

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 1:48pm by Pryssant
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#25 Oct 02 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Pryssant wrote:
RyanSquires wrote:


STEADY HANDS > GREAT STRIDES > STANDARD TOUCH > STANDARD TOUCH > STANDARD TOUCH > CAREFUL SYNTHESIS.



I would suggest Great Strides first, before steady hands. Since Great Strides last for 3 steps but will go away at the first successful touch, you lose pretty much nothing (except if you fails your 2 first touchs) but gain one more steps at the end under the effect of Steady Hands. This is will allow you (if you have the CP) to do one more Great Strides in the middle of all the standard touchs.

And also, since you will have 2 step with the effect of Great Strides active, you have one more chance to hit excellent condition while Great Strides is there. Great Strides + Excellent condition = HQ (most of the time)

Finally, since your last step will be under Steady hand (even while following your way, you can use basic Synthesis, it's still gonna be 100%)

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 1:48pm by Pryssant


Oh, nice catch. I need to switch my starting order as well. Thanks!!
#26 Oct 02 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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Pryssant wrote:
RyanSquires wrote:


STEADY HANDS > GREAT STRIDES > STANDARD TOUCH > STANDARD TOUCH > STANDARD TOUCH > CAREFUL SYNTHESIS.



I would suggest Great Strides first, before steady hands. Since Great Strides last for 3 steps but will go away at the first successful touch, you lose pretty much nothing (except if you fails your 2 first touchs) but gain one more steps at the end under the effect of Steady Hands. This is will allow you (if you have the CP) to do one more Great Strides in the middle of all the standard touchs.

And also, since you will have 2 step with the effect of Great Strides active, you have one more chance to hit excellent condition while Great Strides is there. Great Strides + Excellent condition = HQ (most of the time)

Finally, since your last step will be under Steady hand (even while following your way, you can use basic Synthesis, it's still gonna be 100%)

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 1:48pm by Pryssant


I used SH first because it makes my ST's 100%. so if i do GS then a GOOD or EXCELLENT pops and I follow w/ a ST, it's only 80% that it will hit, I have seen it miss on 80%, **** i've seen a miss on 90%. I do it this way because i know it won't miss.

So if i start w/ SH and a good or excellent pops, i just ST (guaranteed not to miss) it, then GS > ST. It still pretty much maxes out my HQ %. and I do use OBSERVE from time to time trying to get a better condition.

You way does work if you can afford another GS, but currently at 33 i cannot. The way i've shown is the way how i do it to make sure none of my ST's fail. And if you do it with my set up, your final attempt won't have SH's on it, which is why i use CS (again, another guarantee not to fail).




Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 2:05pm by RyanSquires
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#27 Oct 02 2013 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
RyanSquires wrote:
Happy to see so many others sharing their methods. This should be a good source for anyone looking to level a DoH.

Thanks everyone for sharing.


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#28 Oct 02 2013 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.
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#29 Oct 02 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Interesting break down but yes it does hinge entirely on which "ingredient" is the limiter here, the leves or the mats.

If you count it as equal numbers of finished HQ product say 9 for the 3x3 turn in leve or 9 of the same item to do the single turn in 9 times the XP netted on the single turn in is far higher. It makes a good case that if you have leves to burn you should bypass the 3x3's entirely and craft up stacks of singles instead.

For instance if you do the 3x3 leve you have noted about 40 times (lets say you have 40 leves in your pocket) you get about 2 mil XP (obviously you'd have moved on to another set of leves by then but bear with me) for about 360 HQ finished products. If you do the doublet for 31k a piece you'd only get 1.2 mil for 40 turn ins but at 40 items crafted only. To get the same 2 mil from the single turn in you'd need about 64 leves which is 1:1 on the item so only 64 items. I'd wager, at least in theory anyhow, that it takes less time to get 64 items HQ'd than it does to get 360 items HQ'd.

Anyhow that rambling is just to say that if you're cheap on the leve allowance and rich on time and mats, go with the methodical 3x3 turn in. If you're poor on mats and time but rich on leves, go with the singles.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 3:06pm by Furiousnixon

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 3:06pm by Furiousnixon
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#30 Oct 02 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.


I say this is a bad idea only insofar as it will ensure you miss "good" and "excellent" conditions by steamrolling over them with your macro.
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#31 Oct 02 2013 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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Furiousnixon wrote:
pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.


I say this is a bad idea only insofar as it will ensure you miss "good" and "excellent" conditions by steamrolling over them with your macro.



What would you differently with an excellent condition?
#32 Oct 02 2013 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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I consider macros a trade-off between the poor implementation of quick synthesis ***** failures, man) and convenience. For leves I may deliberately try to HQ everything, but if I'm just going through a level range's worth of new synths, I probably don't care about the base materials save maybe things like craftsman tools since I could either use them or sell them for a tidy profit.


Otherwise, I find the "items used" metric a bit odd, when cost efficiency should be the better measurement against EXP gained. I'm probably going to bite the bullet and hammer out lower levels to take my weaving past 26, as any time I've tried to farm diremites, well, half the server has the same idea. Honestly hoping SE does something about these material bottlenecks, like letting lower tier diremites drop the webs, too. Or adding more spawns (in different zones).
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#33 Oct 02 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Furiousnixon wrote:
pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.


I say this is a bad idea only insofar as it will ensure you miss "good" and "excellent" conditions by steamrolling over them with your macro.


I lose out on the "Good" ones typically anyways because of Tricks of the Trade... unless I'm in the middle of a Manipulation or Waste Not cycle, in which case I won't use ToT.
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#34 Oct 02 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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You can't really share macros because they change depending on the recipe / your gear / the food you are eating / your level / and the support abilities you have unlocked from other classes. Also, you really need "Careful synthesis" to be able to make sure the macro will work 100%. But here's a general idea:

/ac "Great Strides" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Steady Hands" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Maker's Mend" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Careful Synthesis" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Careful synthesis" <me>

You have to be around level 20 to have enough CP for this specific macro. It's good for cranking out a bunch of mats like cotton yarn or cotton cloth. I generally re-write this macro when I am going to make a bunch of something. I do the craft manually once to see what the best order of abilities is, then edit the macro accordingly, which saves a lot of time overall.

There is a limit on the number of text lines a macro can have (I think it's 15? hmm, no, it's an even number...) The point is sometimes you can start off a craft with a Careful Synthesis, or even Basic Systhesis and verify a success, and then press the macro to finish it.

These are no good at all for HQing something that is closer to your level. Still, the macros are better than "Quick Synthes" (at least where EXP gain is concerned) for something low level you need to make 50 of.
#35 Oct 02 2013 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Furiousnixon wrote:
pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.


I say this is a bad idea only insofar as it will ensure you miss "good" and "excellent" conditions by steamrolling over them with your macro.


This definitely happens, but often I'm crafting mats that are low enough level that the HQ is almost guaranteed or, at low levels, grinding a bunch of cheap synths for xp (before leves get worthwhile).

In either of those cases, the good enough approach of macro crafting is fine for me. It's not ideal, but I can watch a tv show while I do it and it's worlds better than quick synth...

I usually use 2 macros for the synth due to the 15 line limit.


Edit: Pretty much everything Gnu said.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 4:01pm by Pickins
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#36 Oct 02 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well since everyone is sharing... Smiley: lol

The tactic I'm using is to evaluate the synths is like this:

Subcomponents (the 40 durability items):
- Most important question: Can I fully complete the synth in 1 shot?
- How much CP do I have to set aside in order to fully complete the synth in 1 shot, if possible?
- How much quality can I get with what's remaining without having to refill durability?
- Am I willing to take the risk of trying a non-100% chance at a Good, or should I just Trick the Good into another 20 CP for now?

Final products, on the other hand, are far easier. The goal on them is to get as high of a quality as possible. Unless I am trying something 4+ levels above me, I know I can use the synthesis abilities to "pass" time as I'm waiting for a Good or Excellent, since I have to use them at some point anyway. This is the area where Rapid Synthesis is palatable and where I've been considering using it, although if it takes longer for Rapid to complete anyway due to streaks, I'd probably still say "forget it" and stick with Careful Synthesis II or Standard Synthesis.
#37 Oct 02 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.



I do not macro due to the conditions when crafting being random. I would hate to miss a GOOD or EXCELLENT condition and cost me a possible HQ.
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#38 Oct 02 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
RyanSquires wrote:
pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.



I do not macro due to the conditions when crafting being random. I would hate to miss a GOOD or EXCELLENT condition and cost me a possible HQ.

Never really thought of that. Thanks for the input.
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#39 Oct 02 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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I'd had excellent pop up on my first use of IQ to which I know I'd fail if I use hasty touch without steady hand. But it is so worth the risk.

Gotta love it when excellent picks the "best" times to appear.

That being said, I don't use macros, or even quick synthesis. Anything that takes away your ability to react to a good or excellent.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 4:51pm by TwilightSkye
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#40 Oct 02 2013 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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RyanSquires wrote:

I do not macro due to the conditions when crafting being random. I would hate to miss a GOOD or EXCELLENT condition and cost me a possible HQ.


It's really a cost/benefit tradeoff. Is the effort saved when mass synthing worth the few missed good/excellent? Very often, it is for me.

I don't do it when I'm crafting finished goods, as I want all the quality I can get, but for mats, it definitely has its use.

As a real world example, I'm currently working on Chamomile Tea for CUL leves. No way am I going to craft each honey manually when I can use a macro and get 99% HQ synths. ****, I can even use macros on the tea if I'm willing to accept 85-90% HQ rate.

I'm not saying it should be used all the time, but don't discount macros completely.

One caveat: lag can wreak havoc with macros, causing actions to not fire if the cooldown hasn't registered. You''ll often need to pad your /waits or craft in a zone with lower population.


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#41 Oct 02 2013 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
Well since everyone is sharing... Smiley: lol

The tactic I'm using is to evaluate the synths is like this:

Subcomponents (the 40 durability items):
- Most important question: Can I fully complete the synth in 1 shot?

The simple answer: Yes. At level 50 I can oneshot most synths level 30 and below (My current return is 115 for progress right now for non-starred synths). At level 36 I can oneshot synths with a progress of less then ~56 (if memory serves me correctly). It is actually faster and more reliable to do this, than it is to use the Quick Synth option. The only benefit to quick synth is that it is an unattended option, where oneshotting requires constant interaction by you.
Ravashack wrote:

- How much CP do I have to set aside in order to fully complete the synth in 1 shot, if possible?

None, you don't need any CP to oneshot a synth. I use Careful Synth 2 now, but Basic Synth can generate enough progress to complete many synths (especially level 1 synths), and if you use HQ ingredients you have better than the 1% chance of HQ that the Quick Synth offers
Ravashack wrote:

- How much quality can I get with what's remaining without having to refill durability?

Not really sure how to answer this question. If you are asking how much quality can you get without using one of the Durability return abilities, based on standard CP, I would expect, with normal abilities without regaining any CP, I would guess ~500. Waste Not, and Manipulation allow me to triple that amount, and Tricks of the trade allow me to maintain my CP for the most part, so, tripling that value is possible, and fairly easy with those abilities.
Ravashack wrote:

- Am I willing to take the risk of trying a non-100% chance at a Good, or should I just Trick the Good into another 20 CP for now?

I ALWAYS use tricks of the trade on a Good (unless I am in the finishing stages of a synth). The Quality return is not worth the CP loss. (IMHO)
Ravashack wrote:

Final products, on the other hand, are far easier. The goal on them is to get as high of a quality as possible. Unless I am trying something 4+ levels above me, I know I can use the synthesis abilities to "pass" time as I'm waiting for a Good or Excellent, since I have to use them at some point anyway. This is the area where Rapid Synthesis is palatable and where I've been considering using it, although if it takes longer for Rapid to complete anyway due to streaks, I'd probably still say "forget it" and stick with Careful Synthesis II or Standard Synthesis.


Personally, I put building inner quiet above all else. A high inner quiet can mean a 1k+ gain in a single action (only takes 4-5 successful quality actions) when used with Great Strides and Innovation and Advanced Touch (Standard Touch, you can get a 500-800 quality gain). Done well, you can get two of these last minute pushes for 2k+ quality in only two actions. That can give you HQ results from NQ results.

Mind you, you need excellent gear for your level, good timing, and ~160 CP near the end of your synth to pull that off (for Advanced Touch, you would only need 128 for Standard).
#42 Oct 02 2013 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:

[stuff]

Those weren't questions I was asking to be answered by someone else. They're questions I ask myself when I look at a recipe and want to make it, given my circumstances. So the answer when I am on a 38 Blacksmith is going to be a tad bit different than the answer as a 50 Weaver.

For example, if I'm on a 38 Armorer looking at the Cobalt Ingot recipe:

- Most important question: Can I fully complete the synth in 1 shot?
Answer: Yes

- How much CP do I have to set aside in order to fully complete the synth in 1 shot, if possible?
15 for Standard Synthesis, 22 for Steady Hand to guarantee success, 24 for Ingenuity to bring the recipe down in difficulty level.

- How much quality can I get with what's remaining without having to refill durability?
Stacking Great Strides isn't going to get me more than ~800 if no Goods or Excellents pop up.

- Am I willing to take the risk of trying a non-100% chance at a Good, or should I just Trick the Good into another 20 CP for now?
No, not worth risking it on this synth, I'd have to hit 2147 and I'd only gain ~200-300ish if it is successful.

Conclusion: Recipe is annoying right now, I'm only going to bother with it if I need the mats for something.
#43 Oct 02 2013 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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lol understood.
#44 Oct 03 2013 at 5:32 AM Rating: Good
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Pickins wrote:
RyanSquires wrote:

I do not macro due to the conditions when crafting being random. I would hate to miss a GOOD or EXCELLENT condition and cost me a possible HQ.


It's really a cost/benefit tradeoff. Is the effort saved when mass synthing worth the few missed good/excellent? Very often, it is for me.

I don't do it when I'm crafting finished goods, as I want all the quality I can get, but for mats, it definitely has its use.

As a real world example, I'm currently working on Chamomile Tea for CUL leves. No way am I going to craft each honey manually when I can use a macro and get 99% HQ synths. ****, I can even use macros on the tea if I'm willing to accept 85-90% HQ rate.

I'm not saying it should be used all the time, but don't discount macros completely.

One caveat: lag can wreak havoc with macros, causing actions to not fire if the cooldown hasn't registered. You''ll often need to pad your /waits or craft in a zone with lower population.




If i need to make some that i am way above in level, such as moko grass > Hemp, then i will usually just use quick synthesis and let character bang out 80 of them. I may lose one or two but they get done really fast. If i am worried about my success rate, then i will do 5 or so in a group and see how my NQ HQ and fails look before doing bigger groups.

Not saying macro's are bad, i just don't like to use em, just my personal preference.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 7:32am by RyanSquires
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#45 Oct 03 2013 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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I macro the crap out sub combines.

EG if i am about to do 5-10 leves for black smith and i need steel ingots/plates (both 40 durability, 1x careful synthesis2 finishes)

Method 1:
Quick synthesis = 5% failure rate, 50% exp penalty

Method 2:
Just spam careful synthesis = 100% succcess rate, 100% of exp (no bonus)

Method 3:
MACRO: IQ -> GS -> SH2 -> ST -> GS -> ST -> ST -> CS2

You miss most of the good/excellent but heres the kicker. +200-250% bonus exp, 100% success.

Method 1 = 500 exp
Method 2 = 1000 exp
Methord 3 = 3500 exp


Granted I only do this on subs where i dont care if its HQ or not, but i need to make them anyways. This nets me almost a level worth of exp on this alone.

On leve's you never want to macro the making of the actual items, but once you can HQ with NQ materials, theres no reason to waste time trying to HQ all the sub materials, just get your 300k exp from sub combines, then go do leves.
#46 Oct 03 2013 at 6:15 AM Rating: Good
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Ya I'll absolutely concede that in the case of consistently HQing low level recipes that are assured HQs anyhow regardless of "good" and "excellent" it's totally fine to macro it completely instead of quick synth spamming it.
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#47 Oct 03 2013 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
I macro the crap out sub combines.

EG if i am about to do 5-10 leves for black smith and i need steel ingots/plates (both 40 durability, 1x careful synthesis2 finishes)

Method 1:
Quick synthesis = 5% failure rate, 50% exp penalty

Method 2:
Just spam careful synthesis = 100% succcess rate, 100% of exp (no bonus)

Method 3:
MACRO: IQ -> GS -> SH2 -> ST -> GS -> ST -> ST -> CS2

You miss most of the good/excellent but heres the kicker. +200-250% bonus exp, 100% success.

Method 1 = 500 exp
Method 2 = 1000 exp
Methord 3 = 3500 exp


Granted I only do this on subs where i dont care if its HQ or not, but i need to make them anyways. This nets me almost a level worth of exp on this alone.

On leve's you never want to macro the making of the actual items, but once you can HQ with NQ materials, theres no reason to waste time trying to HQ all the sub materials, just get your 300k exp from sub combines, then go do leves.


Hm....ok, ya talked me into it, i may have to try to set up a macro and try it out.

Let me ask this question now;

As a crafter, do you, or any other crafter reading this, use 2 sets of gear: control gear / craftsmanship gear? Or, do you find a balance between the two?
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#48 Oct 03 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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RyanSquires wrote:

If i need to make some that i am way above in level, such as moko grass > Hemp, then i will usually just use quick synthesis and let character bang out 80 of them. I may lose one or two but they get done really fast. If i am worried about my success rate, then i will do 5 or so in a group and see how my NQ HQ and fails look before doing bigger groups.

Not saying macro's are bad, i just don't like to use em, just my personal preference.



I haven't used it in a long while; what's the HQ rate like on stuff that is way below your level when doing quick synths? I've personally never seen more than 1 or 2% HQ, which for me is no bueno.

If I'm crafting "vertically" (raw materials -> mats -> finished product), I usually try to HQ every step of the way to make things easy. For synths where HQ mats aren't needed (such as for hempen cloth), I'll usually buy the mats at vendor or on the market. Saves me shards and time.

I'm not saying your methods aren't valid, just stating my personal preferences as well. Smiley: smile
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#49 Oct 03 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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RyanSquires wrote:

[...]
Let me ask this question now;

As a crafter, do you, or any other crafter reading this, use 2 sets of gear: control gear / craftsmanship gear? Or, do you find a balance between the two?

There is very little point to have 2 different sets of gear.

The stat cap when slotting materia makes it so that you're better off just combining both stats on the same gear. In most of the cases (with the chest being a big exception), you will hit the cap on the stat within one materia, that's not necessarily even grade 3.
#50 Oct 03 2013 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
One caveat: lag can wreak havoc with macros, causing actions to not fire if the cooldown hasn't registered. You''ll often need to pad your /waits or craft in a zone with lower population.


I've found that lag plays **** with crafting, macro or not. The times right after a maintenance are the worst.

Quote:
As a crafter, do you, or any other crafter reading this, use 2 sets of gear: control gear / craftsmanship gear? Or, do you find a balance between the two?


No, I have too much gear to keep track of as it is Smiley: lol
#51 Oct 03 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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Pickins wrote:
RyanSquires wrote:

If i need to make some that i am way above in level, such as moko grass > Hemp, then i will usually just use quick synthesis and let character bang out 80 of them. I may lose one or two but they get done really fast. If i am worried about my success rate, then i will do 5 or so in a group and see how my NQ HQ and fails look before doing bigger groups.

Not saying macro's are bad, i just don't like to use em, just my personal preference.


I haven't used it in a long while; what's the HQ rate like on stuff that is way below your level when doing quick synths? I've personally never seen more than 1 or 2% HQ, which for me is no bueno.

If I'm crafting "vertically" (raw materials -> mats -> finished product), I usually try to HQ every step of the way to make things easy. For synths where HQ mats aren't needed (such as for hempen cloth), I'll usually buy the mats at vendor or on the market. Saves me shards and time.

I'm not saying your methods aren't valid, just stating my personal preferences as well. Smiley: smile



I don't do the quick syn's if i'm looking to HQ an item as it's really low, i do it because i know even with the NQ items such as hemp yarn, i'll still be able to HQ the cloth easily.

It's all good man, this is how we learn as crafters.


Ravashack wrote:
RyanSquires wrote:

[...]
Let me ask this question now;

As a crafter, do you, or any other crafter reading this, use 2 sets of gear: control gear / craftsmanship gear? Or, do you find a balance between the two?

There is very little point to have 2 different sets of gear.

The stat cap when slotting materia makes it so that you're better off just combining both stats on the same gear. In most of the cases (with the chest being a big exception), you will hit the cap on the stat within one materia, that's not necessarily even grade 3.


Very good to know thanks.

SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Quote:
One caveat: lag can wreak havoc with macros, causing actions to not fire if the cooldown hasn't registered. You''ll often need to pad your /waits or craft in a zone with lower population.


I've found that lag plays **** with crafting, macro or not. The times right after a maintenance are the worst.

Quote:
As a crafter, do you, or any other crafter reading this, use 2 sets of gear: control gear / craftsmanship gear? Or, do you find a balance between the two?


No, I have too much gear to keep track of as it is Smiley: lol


Yea, i seem to have the same problem when trying to sell gear and i can't remember which is just something i've crafted earlier in the day or gear that i am using on my BOT.

So afraid i'm gonna sell the wrong piece of gear. More then once i've used my macro gear swap and seen "Unable to locate gear piece"

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