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#27 Oct 02 2013 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
RyanSquires wrote:
Happy to see so many others sharing their methods. This should be a good source for anyone looking to level a DoH.

Thanks everyone for sharing.


As crafters we're all in this together. We should unionize...
#28 Oct 02 2013 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.
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#29 Oct 02 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Interesting break down but yes it does hinge entirely on which "ingredient" is the limiter here, the leves or the mats.

If you count it as equal numbers of finished HQ product say 9 for the 3x3 turn in leve or 9 of the same item to do the single turn in 9 times the XP netted on the single turn in is far higher. It makes a good case that if you have leves to burn you should bypass the 3x3's entirely and craft up stacks of singles instead.

For instance if you do the 3x3 leve you have noted about 40 times (lets say you have 40 leves in your pocket) you get about 2 mil XP (obviously you'd have moved on to another set of leves by then but bear with me) for about 360 HQ finished products. If you do the doublet for 31k a piece you'd only get 1.2 mil for 40 turn ins but at 40 items crafted only. To get the same 2 mil from the single turn in you'd need about 64 leves which is 1:1 on the item so only 64 items. I'd wager, at least in theory anyhow, that it takes less time to get 64 items HQ'd than it does to get 360 items HQ'd.

Anyhow that rambling is just to say that if you're cheap on the leve allowance and rich on time and mats, go with the methodical 3x3 turn in. If you're poor on mats and time but rich on leves, go with the singles.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 3:06pm by Furiousnixon

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 3:06pm by Furiousnixon
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#30 Oct 02 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.


I say this is a bad idea only insofar as it will ensure you miss "good" and "excellent" conditions by steamrolling over them with your macro.
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#31 Oct 02 2013 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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Furiousnixon wrote:
pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.


I say this is a bad idea only insofar as it will ensure you miss "good" and "excellent" conditions by steamrolling over them with your macro.



What would you differently with an excellent condition?
#32 Oct 02 2013 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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I consider macros a trade-off between the poor implementation of quick synthesis ***** failures, man) and convenience. For leves I may deliberately try to HQ everything, but if I'm just going through a level range's worth of new synths, I probably don't care about the base materials save maybe things like craftsman tools since I could either use them or sell them for a tidy profit.


Otherwise, I find the "items used" metric a bit odd, when cost efficiency should be the better measurement against EXP gained. I'm probably going to bite the bullet and hammer out lower levels to take my weaving past 26, as any time I've tried to farm diremites, well, half the server has the same idea. Honestly hoping SE does something about these material bottlenecks, like letting lower tier diremites drop the webs, too. Or adding more spawns (in different zones).
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#33 Oct 02 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Furiousnixon wrote:
pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.


I say this is a bad idea only insofar as it will ensure you miss "good" and "excellent" conditions by steamrolling over them with your macro.


I lose out on the "Good" ones typically anyways because of Tricks of the Trade... unless I'm in the middle of a Manipulation or Waste Not cycle, in which case I won't use ToT.
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#34 Oct 02 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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You can't really share macros because they change depending on the recipe / your gear / the food you are eating / your level / and the support abilities you have unlocked from other classes. Also, you really need "Careful synthesis" to be able to make sure the macro will work 100%. But here's a general idea:

/ac "Great Strides" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Steady Hands" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Maker's Mend" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Careful Synthesis" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Careful synthesis" <me>

You have to be around level 20 to have enough CP for this specific macro. It's good for cranking out a bunch of mats like cotton yarn or cotton cloth. I generally re-write this macro when I am going to make a bunch of something. I do the craft manually once to see what the best order of abilities is, then edit the macro accordingly, which saves a lot of time overall.

There is a limit on the number of text lines a macro can have (I think it's 15? hmm, no, it's an even number...) The point is sometimes you can start off a craft with a Careful Synthesis, or even Basic Systhesis and verify a success, and then press the macro to finish it.

These are no good at all for HQing something that is closer to your level. Still, the macros are better than "Quick Synthes" (at least where EXP gain is concerned) for something low level you need to make 50 of.
#35 Oct 02 2013 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Furiousnixon wrote:
pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.


I say this is a bad idea only insofar as it will ensure you miss "good" and "excellent" conditions by steamrolling over them with your macro.


This definitely happens, but often I'm crafting mats that are low enough level that the HQ is almost guaranteed or, at low levels, grinding a bunch of cheap synths for xp (before leves get worthwhile).

In either of those cases, the good enough approach of macro crafting is fine for me. It's not ideal, but I can watch a tv show while I do it and it's worlds better than quick synth...

I usually use 2 macros for the synth due to the 15 line limit.


Edit: Pretty much everything Gnu said.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 4:01pm by Pickins
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#36 Oct 02 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well since everyone is sharing... Smiley: lol

The tactic I'm using is to evaluate the synths is like this:

Subcomponents (the 40 durability items):
- Most important question: Can I fully complete the synth in 1 shot?
- How much CP do I have to set aside in order to fully complete the synth in 1 shot, if possible?
- How much quality can I get with what's remaining without having to refill durability?
- Am I willing to take the risk of trying a non-100% chance at a Good, or should I just Trick the Good into another 20 CP for now?

Final products, on the other hand, are far easier. The goal on them is to get as high of a quality as possible. Unless I am trying something 4+ levels above me, I know I can use the synthesis abilities to "pass" time as I'm waiting for a Good or Excellent, since I have to use them at some point anyway. This is the area where Rapid Synthesis is palatable and where I've been considering using it, although if it takes longer for Rapid to complete anyway due to streaks, I'd probably still say "forget it" and stick with Careful Synthesis II or Standard Synthesis.
#37 Oct 02 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.



I do not macro due to the conditions when crafting being random. I would hate to miss a GOOD or EXCELLENT condition and cost me a possible HQ.
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#38 Oct 02 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
RyanSquires wrote:
pufardo, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Do you guys use macros for synthing? I was wondering when making the mats required as HQ mats to make HQ crafts.



I do not macro due to the conditions when crafting being random. I would hate to miss a GOOD or EXCELLENT condition and cost me a possible HQ.

Never really thought of that. Thanks for the input.
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#39 Oct 02 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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I'd had excellent pop up on my first use of IQ to which I know I'd fail if I use hasty touch without steady hand. But it is so worth the risk.

Gotta love it when excellent picks the "best" times to appear.

That being said, I don't use macros, or even quick synthesis. Anything that takes away your ability to react to a good or excellent.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 4:51pm by TwilightSkye
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#40 Oct 02 2013 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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RyanSquires wrote:

I do not macro due to the conditions when crafting being random. I would hate to miss a GOOD or EXCELLENT condition and cost me a possible HQ.


It's really a cost/benefit tradeoff. Is the effort saved when mass synthing worth the few missed good/excellent? Very often, it is for me.

I don't do it when I'm crafting finished goods, as I want all the quality I can get, but for mats, it definitely has its use.

As a real world example, I'm currently working on Chamomile Tea for CUL leves. No way am I going to craft each honey manually when I can use a macro and get 99% HQ synths. ****, I can even use macros on the tea if I'm willing to accept 85-90% HQ rate.

I'm not saying it should be used all the time, but don't discount macros completely.

One caveat: lag can wreak havoc with macros, causing actions to not fire if the cooldown hasn't registered. You''ll often need to pad your /waits or craft in a zone with lower population.


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#41 Oct 02 2013 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
Well since everyone is sharing... Smiley: lol

The tactic I'm using is to evaluate the synths is like this:

Subcomponents (the 40 durability items):
- Most important question: Can I fully complete the synth in 1 shot?

The simple answer: Yes. At level 50 I can oneshot most synths level 30 and below (My current return is 115 for progress right now for non-starred synths). At level 36 I can oneshot synths with a progress of less then ~56 (if memory serves me correctly). It is actually faster and more reliable to do this, than it is to use the Quick Synth option. The only benefit to quick synth is that it is an unattended option, where oneshotting requires constant interaction by you.
Ravashack wrote:

- How much CP do I have to set aside in order to fully complete the synth in 1 shot, if possible?

None, you don't need any CP to oneshot a synth. I use Careful Synth 2 now, but Basic Synth can generate enough progress to complete many synths (especially level 1 synths), and if you use HQ ingredients you have better than the 1% chance of HQ that the Quick Synth offers
Ravashack wrote:

- How much quality can I get with what's remaining without having to refill durability?

Not really sure how to answer this question. If you are asking how much quality can you get without using one of the Durability return abilities, based on standard CP, I would expect, with normal abilities without regaining any CP, I would guess ~500. Waste Not, and Manipulation allow me to triple that amount, and Tricks of the trade allow me to maintain my CP for the most part, so, tripling that value is possible, and fairly easy with those abilities.
Ravashack wrote:

- Am I willing to take the risk of trying a non-100% chance at a Good, or should I just Trick the Good into another 20 CP for now?

I ALWAYS use tricks of the trade on a Good (unless I am in the finishing stages of a synth). The Quality return is not worth the CP loss. (IMHO)
Ravashack wrote:

Final products, on the other hand, are far easier. The goal on them is to get as high of a quality as possible. Unless I am trying something 4+ levels above me, I know I can use the synthesis abilities to "pass" time as I'm waiting for a Good or Excellent, since I have to use them at some point anyway. This is the area where Rapid Synthesis is palatable and where I've been considering using it, although if it takes longer for Rapid to complete anyway due to streaks, I'd probably still say "forget it" and stick with Careful Synthesis II or Standard Synthesis.


Personally, I put building inner quiet above all else. A high inner quiet can mean a 1k+ gain in a single action (only takes 4-5 successful quality actions) when used with Great Strides and Innovation and Advanced Touch (Standard Touch, you can get a 500-800 quality gain). Done well, you can get two of these last minute pushes for 2k+ quality in only two actions. That can give you HQ results from NQ results.

Mind you, you need excellent gear for your level, good timing, and ~160 CP near the end of your synth to pull that off (for Advanced Touch, you would only need 128 for Standard).
#42 Oct 02 2013 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:

[stuff]

Those weren't questions I was asking to be answered by someone else. They're questions I ask myself when I look at a recipe and want to make it, given my circumstances. So the answer when I am on a 38 Blacksmith is going to be a tad bit different than the answer as a 50 Weaver.

For example, if I'm on a 38 Armorer looking at the Cobalt Ingot recipe:

- Most important question: Can I fully complete the synth in 1 shot?
Answer: Yes

- How much CP do I have to set aside in order to fully complete the synth in 1 shot, if possible?
15 for Standard Synthesis, 22 for Steady Hand to guarantee success, 24 for Ingenuity to bring the recipe down in difficulty level.

- How much quality can I get with what's remaining without having to refill durability?
Stacking Great Strides isn't going to get me more than ~800 if no Goods or Excellents pop up.

- Am I willing to take the risk of trying a non-100% chance at a Good, or should I just Trick the Good into another 20 CP for now?
No, not worth risking it on this synth, I'd have to hit 2147 and I'd only gain ~200-300ish if it is successful.

Conclusion: Recipe is annoying right now, I'm only going to bother with it if I need the mats for something.
#43 Oct 02 2013 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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lol understood.
#44 Oct 03 2013 at 5:32 AM Rating: Good
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Pickins wrote:
RyanSquires wrote:

I do not macro due to the conditions when crafting being random. I would hate to miss a GOOD or EXCELLENT condition and cost me a possible HQ.


It's really a cost/benefit tradeoff. Is the effort saved when mass synthing worth the few missed good/excellent? Very often, it is for me.

I don't do it when I'm crafting finished goods, as I want all the quality I can get, but for mats, it definitely has its use.

As a real world example, I'm currently working on Chamomile Tea for CUL leves. No way am I going to craft each honey manually when I can use a macro and get 99% HQ synths. ****, I can even use macros on the tea if I'm willing to accept 85-90% HQ rate.

I'm not saying it should be used all the time, but don't discount macros completely.

One caveat: lag can wreak havoc with macros, causing actions to not fire if the cooldown hasn't registered. You''ll often need to pad your /waits or craft in a zone with lower population.




If i need to make some that i am way above in level, such as moko grass > Hemp, then i will usually just use quick synthesis and let character bang out 80 of them. I may lose one or two but they get done really fast. If i am worried about my success rate, then i will do 5 or so in a group and see how my NQ HQ and fails look before doing bigger groups.

Not saying macro's are bad, i just don't like to use em, just my personal preference.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 7:32am by RyanSquires
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#45 Oct 03 2013 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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I macro the crap out sub combines.

EG if i am about to do 5-10 leves for black smith and i need steel ingots/plates (both 40 durability, 1x careful synthesis2 finishes)

Method 1:
Quick synthesis = 5% failure rate, 50% exp penalty

Method 2:
Just spam careful synthesis = 100% succcess rate, 100% of exp (no bonus)

Method 3:
MACRO: IQ -> GS -> SH2 -> ST -> GS -> ST -> ST -> CS2

You miss most of the good/excellent but heres the kicker. +200-250% bonus exp, 100% success.

Method 1 = 500 exp
Method 2 = 1000 exp
Methord 3 = 3500 exp


Granted I only do this on subs where i dont care if its HQ or not, but i need to make them anyways. This nets me almost a level worth of exp on this alone.

On leve's you never want to macro the making of the actual items, but once you can HQ with NQ materials, theres no reason to waste time trying to HQ all the sub materials, just get your 300k exp from sub combines, then go do leves.
#46 Oct 03 2013 at 6:15 AM Rating: Good
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Ya I'll absolutely concede that in the case of consistently HQing low level recipes that are assured HQs anyhow regardless of "good" and "excellent" it's totally fine to macro it completely instead of quick synth spamming it.
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#47 Oct 03 2013 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
I macro the crap out sub combines.

EG if i am about to do 5-10 leves for black smith and i need steel ingots/plates (both 40 durability, 1x careful synthesis2 finishes)

Method 1:
Quick synthesis = 5% failure rate, 50% exp penalty

Method 2:
Just spam careful synthesis = 100% succcess rate, 100% of exp (no bonus)

Method 3:
MACRO: IQ -> GS -> SH2 -> ST -> GS -> ST -> ST -> CS2

You miss most of the good/excellent but heres the kicker. +200-250% bonus exp, 100% success.

Method 1 = 500 exp
Method 2 = 1000 exp
Methord 3 = 3500 exp


Granted I only do this on subs where i dont care if its HQ or not, but i need to make them anyways. This nets me almost a level worth of exp on this alone.

On leve's you never want to macro the making of the actual items, but once you can HQ with NQ materials, theres no reason to waste time trying to HQ all the sub materials, just get your 300k exp from sub combines, then go do leves.


Hm....ok, ya talked me into it, i may have to try to set up a macro and try it out.

Let me ask this question now;

As a crafter, do you, or any other crafter reading this, use 2 sets of gear: control gear / craftsmanship gear? Or, do you find a balance between the two?
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#48 Oct 03 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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RyanSquires wrote:

If i need to make some that i am way above in level, such as moko grass > Hemp, then i will usually just use quick synthesis and let character bang out 80 of them. I may lose one or two but they get done really fast. If i am worried about my success rate, then i will do 5 or so in a group and see how my NQ HQ and fails look before doing bigger groups.

Not saying macro's are bad, i just don't like to use em, just my personal preference.



I haven't used it in a long while; what's the HQ rate like on stuff that is way below your level when doing quick synths? I've personally never seen more than 1 or 2% HQ, which for me is no bueno.

If I'm crafting "vertically" (raw materials -> mats -> finished product), I usually try to HQ every step of the way to make things easy. For synths where HQ mats aren't needed (such as for hempen cloth), I'll usually buy the mats at vendor or on the market. Saves me shards and time.

I'm not saying your methods aren't valid, just stating my personal preferences as well. Smiley: smile
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#49 Oct 03 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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RyanSquires wrote:

[...]
Let me ask this question now;

As a crafter, do you, or any other crafter reading this, use 2 sets of gear: control gear / craftsmanship gear? Or, do you find a balance between the two?

There is very little point to have 2 different sets of gear.

The stat cap when slotting materia makes it so that you're better off just combining both stats on the same gear. In most of the cases (with the chest being a big exception), you will hit the cap on the stat within one materia, that's not necessarily even grade 3.
#50 Oct 03 2013 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
One caveat: lag can wreak havoc with macros, causing actions to not fire if the cooldown hasn't registered. You''ll often need to pad your /waits or craft in a zone with lower population.


I've found that lag plays **** with crafting, macro or not. The times right after a maintenance are the worst.

Quote:
As a crafter, do you, or any other crafter reading this, use 2 sets of gear: control gear / craftsmanship gear? Or, do you find a balance between the two?


No, I have too much gear to keep track of as it is Smiley: lol
#51 Oct 03 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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Pickins wrote:
RyanSquires wrote:

If i need to make some that i am way above in level, such as moko grass > Hemp, then i will usually just use quick synthesis and let character bang out 80 of them. I may lose one or two but they get done really fast. If i am worried about my success rate, then i will do 5 or so in a group and see how my NQ HQ and fails look before doing bigger groups.

Not saying macro's are bad, i just don't like to use em, just my personal preference.


I haven't used it in a long while; what's the HQ rate like on stuff that is way below your level when doing quick synths? I've personally never seen more than 1 or 2% HQ, which for me is no bueno.

If I'm crafting "vertically" (raw materials -> mats -> finished product), I usually try to HQ every step of the way to make things easy. For synths where HQ mats aren't needed (such as for hempen cloth), I'll usually buy the mats at vendor or on the market. Saves me shards and time.

I'm not saying your methods aren't valid, just stating my personal preferences as well. Smiley: smile



I don't do the quick syn's if i'm looking to HQ an item as it's really low, i do it because i know even with the NQ items such as hemp yarn, i'll still be able to HQ the cloth easily.

It's all good man, this is how we learn as crafters.


Ravashack wrote:
RyanSquires wrote:

[...]
Let me ask this question now;

As a crafter, do you, or any other crafter reading this, use 2 sets of gear: control gear / craftsmanship gear? Or, do you find a balance between the two?

There is very little point to have 2 different sets of gear.

The stat cap when slotting materia makes it so that you're better off just combining both stats on the same gear. In most of the cases (with the chest being a big exception), you will hit the cap on the stat within one materia, that's not necessarily even grade 3.


Very good to know thanks.

SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Quote:
One caveat: lag can wreak havoc with macros, causing actions to not fire if the cooldown hasn't registered. You''ll often need to pad your /waits or craft in a zone with lower population.


I've found that lag plays **** with crafting, macro or not. The times right after a maintenance are the worst.

Quote:
As a crafter, do you, or any other crafter reading this, use 2 sets of gear: control gear / craftsmanship gear? Or, do you find a balance between the two?


No, I have too much gear to keep track of as it is Smiley: lol


Yea, i seem to have the same problem when trying to sell gear and i can't remember which is just something i've crafted earlier in the day or gear that i am using on my BOT.

So afraid i'm gonna sell the wrong piece of gear. More then once i've used my macro gear swap and seen "Unable to locate gear piece"

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