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Dev post - MVP system for Duty Finder GroupsFollow

#1 Oct 02 2013 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Camate, Community Rep wrote:
Greetings, everyone!

I'd like to give a brief official overview of the "MVP" system that was announced by Yoshida during TGS, as there is a lot of interest in how this will encourage players to be positive and helpful when using the Duty Finder.

This system is for groups that get matched in the Duty Finder and cannot be used when you pre-make parties to enter dungeons and other content. Once you clear the content, you'll be able to vote for a player you feel was helpful, positive, and friendly.

Accumulating these points will allow you to buy companion armor, new mounts, and other exclusive items.

This system is scheduled to be implemented in patch 2.1, and once further details have been finalized we will be sure to share them with you!


And there you have it, an incentive for being helpful.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 2:16pm by Gnu
#2 Oct 02 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
I like this idea.
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#3 Oct 02 2013 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Looking forward to this!
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#4 Oct 02 2013 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gnu wrote:
And there you have it, an incentive for being helpful.


I like this idea. I've read too many horror stories of jerks in the duty finder, maybe that's why they did this?


Gamification! Make Karma into a game and maybe the jerks, who are so busy winning everything in the game, can slow down and be helpful to "win" at this too.

They should make a smiley-face t-shirt style for the truly helpful people... Smiley: smile
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#5 Oct 02 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Excellent
Hairspray wrote:
Gnu wrote:
And there you have it, an incentive for being helpful.


I like this idea. I've read too many horror stories of jerks in the duty finder, maybe that's why they did this?


Gamification! Make Karma into a game and maybe the jerks, who are so busy winning everything in the game, can slow down and be helpful to "win" at this too.

They should make a smiley-face t-shirt style for the truly helpful people... Smiley: smile


Smiley face armor would be awesome Smiley: smile
#6 Oct 02 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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I think its a great idea... I am curious if you will be able to see other peoples rating...
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#7 Oct 02 2013 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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I can think of several people who deserved this and I wish I could go back and give it to them retroactively.

- The archer who gave our newbie tank "Tanking 101" lessons in Sastasha
- The GLD who stayed with us as we lost to Ifrit twice, then finally got is past the kaboom by using the limit break so that we lived

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#8 Oct 02 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
I don't think it will be incentive enough to make the D-bags stop being D-bags, but I am all in on being able to give props to people that deserve it. Would be cool if the people that had a solid rep for being helpful got a special icon (smiley face, obviously) next to their name in DF lists.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 12:33pm by SkinwalkerAsura
#9 Oct 02 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Wondering if partially formed groups will qualify. Like, I tend to do AK with my Paladin buddy. In theory, a three-man group could rig voting so one of the three would always win (since I doubt you could vote for yourself), but... dunno. Probably best if they keep things restricted to vanity items.
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#10 Oct 02 2013 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Wondering if partially formed groups will qualify. Like, I tend to do AK with my Paladin buddy. In theory, a three-man group could rig voting so one of the three would always win (since I doubt you could vote for yourself), but... dunno. Probably best if they keep things restricted to vanity items.


I love the idea by Yoshi, but Seriha sums up my concerns about being exploitative. Elite party types who aren't nice in PUGs can simply go as a team and farm "nice" points with their own people. That is if the rewards interest them in the first place. However, it's a good approach and maybe we'll see some positive changes in the PUGs. I had a party last night where the tank was such a ****, one of the members near the end of the run called him a douchbag. The tank responded with "call me whatever you want, I'm here to get you noobs a win." The rest of what they said can't be posted here, it was that bad. I wanted to blist that tank, but I just kept my mouth shut and helped my friend win the run for his DL robe.
#11 Oct 02 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
Wondering if partially formed groups will qualify. Like, I tend to do AK with my Paladin buddy. In theory, a three-man group could rig voting so one of the three would always win (since I doubt you could vote for yourself), but... dunno. Probably best if they keep things restricted to vanity items.


The party system is pretty definable. Once you pre-make a party you stay in that party even after a dungeon is finished. I would imagine they have it where if someone is in that pre made party will not be allowed to use the voting system for members of a pre made DF party. I would hope, but seems unlikely as it was not mentioned, that you can down vote a player also. To show others that who you are grouping with may not be a positive part of your party.


Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 3:49pm by Magilicotti
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#12 Oct 02 2013 at 1:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
Wondering if partially formed groups will qualify. Like, I tend to do AK with my Paladin buddy. In theory, a three-man group could rig voting so one of the three would always win (since I doubt you could vote for yourself), but... dunno. Probably best if they keep things restricted to vanity items.


It's a bit ambiguous, but I read this as not allowing even partial parties to participate in the system:

Quote:

This system is for groups that get matched in the Duty Finder and cannot be used when you pre-make parties to enter dungeons and other content. Once you clear the content, you'll be able to vote for a player you feel was helpful, positive, and friendly.


I completely agree, though. This should only be for completely random parties.
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#13 Oct 02 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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I hope they don't bother with a downvote system. A system where you can only provide positive or neutral feedback is harder to grief than a system that allows negative feedback at any point.
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#14 Oct 02 2013 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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my worry about this is that it will end up being a system of who is the best player (not the nicest, most helpful etc etc player) so if they allow a vote up or down and the results to be viewable we'll end up with a +XX only type system. Where people are being booted from DF because they haven't been rated up enough.
#15 Oct 02 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I love this idea.

I just wonder how they'll implement it. Like if there'll be voting at the end of the dungeon; or if you can give everyone a point. If there'll be an actual MVP per dungeon or if you just accumulate points with no real designation.

In other words, even if you don't win MVP, I wonder if you get to keep your "votes."


EDIT: Like the poster above I'm a bit worried about certain abuses too. Like it was stated in another forum (I think) that good DPS is harder to show (even though I could tell the difference as a DPS), than a Tank or Healer who does a good job. If it's solely about helpfulness and not about performance or perceived performance then there might be some ruffled feathers, because I don't see a way to quantify and/or separate both things.

The only way to bypass the performance aspect is to be very vocal and helpful, though on your 30th time in WP or on Titan, and everyone (should) know what to do, then what are you really voting on?

Lol, so after some thought, it seems like an updated mentoring system that's probably aimed more towards the initial influx of newbies and high level players running alts. Jerks can still be jerks, although it might make them a bit more quiet so that way they can let their performance speak for itself. Something like: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."



Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 4:20pm by Kierk
#16 Oct 02 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have a feeling that tanks will have the easiest time at accumulating points, if nothing else, for doing their job properly, which I hope entices more people into the tanking role for the rewards. Speculation, of course, but hopefully works out that way.
#17 Oct 02 2013 at 2:25 PM Rating: Excellent
LOVE THIS!!!
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#18 Oct 02 2013 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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Medieve wrote:
I have a feeling that tanks will have the easiest time at accumulating points, if nothing else, for doing their job properly, which I hope entices more people into the tanking role for the rewards. Speculation, of course, but hopefully works out that way.


I was thinking this as well. Tanks are the de facto leaders of a group, and when you have a good one MAN does it make all the difference in the world.

That said, I'd think someone who was backseat driving and being nice about it for a less experienced tank has a good shot of winning the vote, regardless of what class.
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#19 Oct 02 2013 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seems like they are swiping an idea from LoL. Honestly they need to add in the feedback for negative behavior too. For those that don't know, it's not just a downvote, you need to select a reason. One of these is that the character went idle/AFK at the start of or during the match, something that is easily to check. It doesn't give karma and more or less acts as a way to report abusive behavior...

... you know, like spamming shouts and stuff. Sure, I can ignore them, but would be double fun to ignore and report them, if for no other reason than to waste gilseller money on buying new copies of the game.
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#20 Oct 02 2013 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
Gnu wrote:
And there you have it, an incentive for being helpful.


I like this idea. I've read too many horror stories of jerks in the duty finder, maybe that's why they did this?


Gamification! Make Karma into a game and maybe the jerks, who are so busy winning everything in the game, can slow down and be helpful to "win" at this too.

They should make a smiley-face t-shirt style for the truly helpful people... Smiley: smile


Smiley face armor would be awesome Smiley: smile


Oh noes!!! A bunch of Wal-mart smiley face armor goons running everywhere. lol
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#21 Oct 02 2013 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Medieve wrote:
I have a feeling that tanks will have the easiest time at accumulating points, if nothing else, for doing their job properly, which I hope entices more people into the tanking role for the rewards. Speculation, of course, but hopefully works out that way.


I was thinking this as well. Tanks are the de facto leaders of a group, and when you have a good one MAN does it make all the difference in the world.

That said, I'd think someone who was backseat driving and being nice about it for a less experienced tank has a good shot of winning the vote, regardless of what class.



It's funny because 10/10 times if the Tank just knows how to mark targets, that means they're a good tank. I've never had a bad tank that marked targets.

In addition, most times the Tank would be the more vocal and experienced member but that might just be my own experience.
#22 Oct 02 2013 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kierk wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Medieve wrote:
I have a feeling that tanks will have the easiest time at accumulating points, if nothing else, for doing their job properly, which I hope entices more people into the tanking role for the rewards. Speculation, of course, but hopefully works out that way.


I was thinking this as well. Tanks are the de facto leaders of a group, and when you have a good one MAN does it make all the difference in the world.

That said, I'd think someone who was backseat driving and being nice about it for a less experienced tank has a good shot of winning the vote, regardless of what class.



It's funny because 10/10 times if the Tank just knows how to mark targets, that means they're a good tank. I've never had a bad tank that marked targets.

In addition, most times the Tank would be the more vocal and experienced member but that might just be my own experience.


Trust a healer to have seen it all, but I once partied with a marauder who couldn't hold hate on multiple targets in the Stone Temple which is level 41 if I recall correctly. He did mark targets, however, but just one at a time, and let all the links attack whomever they wanted without a care. I don't know how we made it to the end, but we still managed to beat the final boss.
#23 Oct 02 2013 at 5:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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WoW did something similar to this for tanks & healers to queue. They instituted a reward system where whatever class shortage was causing the longest delay in duty finder to get a chest that had some gold and a chance at some rare mounts and minions. This system enticed a few more tanks and healers to queue, which brought down the time that DPS players had to sit around waiting. I think the system would improve, if they added more loot to trash, like allagans. Maybe each trash monster having a 25% chance to drop an allagan. 200 monsters in a clear, 50 allagans (the 25 to 100 gil type) could hypothetically drop providing a financial incentive to run dungeons.
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#24 Oct 02 2013 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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Can't wait to see how this is implemented. I really like the idea & hope you can see your DF rating.
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#25 Oct 02 2013 at 7:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Excellent idea! We need more ideas like this that encourage a sense of community even across servers. Now I would like to see some type of systems developed like this that would encourage more companionship within server as well. Truth be told, thus far my favorite people that I've met in the game have been on the DF. Sadly they are all on other servers.


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#26 Oct 02 2013 at 8:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Kierk wrote:
I love this idea.

I just wonder how they'll implement it. Like if there'll be voting at the end of the dungeon; or if you can give everyone a point. If there'll be an actual MVP per dungeon or if you just accumulate points with no real designation.

In other words, even if you don't win MVP, I wonder if you get to keep your "votes."


EDIT: Like the poster above I'm a bit worried about certain abuses too. Like it was stated in another forum (I think) that good DPS is harder to show (even though I could tell the difference as a DPS), than a Tank or Healer who does a good job. If it's solely about helpfulness and not about performance or perceived performance then there might be some ruffled feathers, because I don't see a way to quantify and/or separate both things.

The only way to bypass the performance aspect is to be very vocal and helpful, though on your 30th time in WP or on Titan, and everyone (should) know what to do, then what are you really voting on?

Lol, so after some thought, it seems like an updated mentoring system that's probably aimed more towards the initial influx of newbies and high level players running alts. Jerks can still be jerks, although it might make them a bit more quiet so that way they can let their performance speak for itself. Something like: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."



Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 4:20pm by Kierk

From the linked comments it seems to be the MVP will not be cumulative, view-able by others or permanent. We will get one vote per dungeon per person. I doubt it rates performance because a vote given by people cannot accurately determine a score without an in game metric or third party parser. If that gets implemented then the system defeats it's intention.

Jerks will be jerks if they want and no system will alter that if that person deems it so. Most humans are driven by the pain motivator versus the pleasure motivator. They would rather lose progress towards something than have their self worth be questioned.

It's good the system is neutral or positive and doesn't allow negative voting. For that a kick feature or leaving a duty provides that avenue.

Behind the safety of the internet, everyone becomes a critic or speaks their mind with no fear of the outcome. When we treat people poorly with a real fear of outcome, we have less negativity or this happens.

#27 Oct 03 2013 at 2:12 AM Rating: Decent
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wont stop Douche bags being douche bags

they will just down vote everyone for fun unless you can see what other people vote in case its broken before its started.

Any player that receives a downvote and can see it will simply downvote the person that downvoted them
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#28 Oct 03 2013 at 2:46 AM Rating: Decent
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From that statement there is no negative voting, only positive.
#29 Oct 03 2013 at 3:52 AM Rating: Good
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Not to be the negative nancy, but unless the rewards include allagan tomestones or rare crafting mats or something with a little more effect on gameplay than chocobo armor and mounts, I don't see this notably affecting the insufferable number of ******** and trolls in DF groups. It may help keep people in groups in leveling dungeons rather than leave after the second wipe because they couldn't **** themselves to explain the boss fights, though.
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#30 Oct 03 2013 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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desmar wrote:
WoW did something similar to this for tanks & healers to queue. They instituted a reward system where whatever class shortage was causing the longest delay in duty finder to get a chest that had some gold and a chance at some rare mounts and minions. This system enticed a few more tanks and healers to queue, which brought down the time that DPS players had to sit around waiting. I think the system would improve, if they added more loot to trash, like allagans. Maybe each trash monster having a 25% chance to drop an allagan. 200 monsters in a clear, 50 allagans (the 25 to 100 gil type) could hypothetically drop providing a financial incentive to run dungeons.


Yeah it just needs a bit more incentive. The one thing I loved in WoW and most other games is good random drops from not only trash, but mobs out in the world. Allagans, gear (either BoP or Untradable), maybe even a .5% chance to get 10 Philosophy Tomes for the entire group...at least for dungeon runs would give a nice boost for clearing trash.
#31 Oct 03 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kierk wrote:
Like it was stated in another forum (I think) that good DPS is harder to show (even though I could tell the difference as a DPS), than a Tank or Healer who does a good job. If it's solely about helpfulness and not about performance or perceived performance then there might be some ruffled feathers, because I don't see a way to quantify and/or separate both things.


I'm really not sure about the usefulness of parsing for this reason. So many battles I end up (as BLM) spamming Physick on the Tank because of something or another. I keep spamming and he keeps barely staying alive. I am just one Blizzard III away from full MP, but the healer is down to his last 50mp and struggling.

Then we win. I haven't casted much DD for the last 5 minutes. Except to maybe squeeze off a Thunder II. Does the parser inform you that my lack of DDing saved the day?


Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 11:19am by Gnu
#32 Oct 03 2013 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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BlackstarrStrife wrote:
wont stop Douche bags being douche bags

they will just down vote everyone for fun unless you can see what other people vote in case its broken before its started.

Any player that receives a downvote and can see it will simply downvote the person that downvoted them


There's no down voting.
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