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For PS3 User: Does your game slowly die on long playtimes?Follow

#1 Oct 03 2013 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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So this has happened on a fairly regular basis now, and I am not sure if it's a bug, an issue with my PS3, an issue with PS3 in general, or what. Here's how it goes.

If I play for a day (I am fortunate enough to work 7 on 7 off, so this can happen regularly), sometimes after being on for a few hours, or after crossing through a heavily populated area, I will start to lose sound effects. Normally it starts with some of the players around me, then mine start to drop out. Eventually, if I don't restart, I lose the background music. Now. I thought this was as far as it went, and normally by that point I've rebooted as having a totally silent game drives me mad.

However, recently I played on, just trying to get through a few more quests with my fiancee. We were out near Little Al Migho and headed down the stairs towards the level 46 area for a quest just before there (the Tea quest, if anyone knows it). I ran down and started looking for NPCs, but the area was clear of them, it was just me and my fiancee onscreen. At least, for me it was clear. My fiancee was telling me she saw a FATE she could start (the Flames scout escort FATE). Again, I saw nothing. I told her to start it. She asked if I saw anything. Eventually the NPC popped but frozen in a run stance, moving like one of those electric football players, gliding in frozen stance.

As the FATE progressed, a few other players appeared, then I saw a couple enemies here and there. But never did everyone appear. I exited the game and logged back in, and everything went back to normal. I felt the PS3, and it wasn't hot or blowing excessive hot air, so I don't think it's heat. It seems to be associated with any time I cross an area with a large number of sounds or characters, there is a chance that the sounds start dying. It normally doesn't happen in a short period of play, it takes a couple of big FATEs or an extended playtime to really get it to happen.

Am I alone on this, or is this an issue others have had happen?
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
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#2 Oct 03 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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nope thats normal it happens to me too. the ps3 version is like that as it can barely run the game (it is 7 year olf hardware after all they really just put it on ps3 to kkeep the promise they mad eto us ps3 players. Now the ps4 version will run MUCH better
#3 Oct 03 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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I have and still do get the issue with players showing up on screens in busy areas moving and appearing to float. However, I did open appropriate ports on my router and since then I have not had an instance were audio dropped, and, during large fates.... the mob always will show up with players loading in due time.

Nothing crazy but a definite difference. I figure as long as I can see party members and the mob... meh. Also, I have turned of all effects seen by my char, party members, and other pc's. I found that really helped. I was also looking into installing a SSD. I hear that helps a bit.
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#4 Oct 03 2013 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmmm, I don't think I ever re-opened the ports on the current router I have. I will have to look into that tonight. It would make sense. It feels to me like the game's code bugs out when it loses a signal to start or terminate an animation/sound effect, then it just causes a log jam on the rest of the actions locally, until it just starts throwing exceptions to null and everything goes quiet.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#5 Oct 03 2013 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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And I hear you about the audio... having a background in audio for games I go berserk... Before they fixed server log issues I would just stop playing lol
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#6 Oct 03 2013 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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The sound thing only happened to me one time during Early Access, after I was playing for maybe 5 or 6 hours straight. It hasn't come back lately even after playing for up to 8 hours.

Something odd that has happened to me twice in the past week is a silent kick from the game itself, after I change zones. The screen goes black like usual, but instead of seeing the new zone's name, I see the PS3 XMB. As if nothing just happened. No error messages or anything. Just a trip back to my homescreen, forcing me to start up FFXIV again.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 10:40am by fatpolomanjr
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#7 Oct 03 2013 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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Sounds like a memory leak to me.

And, considering the lack of RAM on the PS3, any inefficiency in memory usage is very problematic.
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#8 Oct 03 2013 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Yea, that was my other thought, but I would have expected that to end in a deadlock of the client (a crash, an error something). I suppose it is a deadlock of sorts, just a really odd one. But then I've never worked with a console for programming, so no idea if you would get an OS-level event happening for every single leak, or if that would even be a thing.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#9 Oct 03 2013 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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Not really sure myself, as I haven't developed for consoles either.

It's pure speculation on my part, but I was thinking that there may be a certain memory address range that is designated for audio, and that the leak is limited to this range. Of course, the "unable to allocate" error would likely still fire, but it could be as simple as the exception handling code not taking any action in the catch block, causing the audio to drop, but the client to stay up.
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#10 Oct 03 2013 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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Personally, I haven't had any problems like you've described besides the char loading thing(and have switched out my hdd to help deal with that). The longest I've probably left my ps3 on was overnight a few times when I fell asleep with the system on. It's worth noting, that I really don't play a lot of games so my ps3 is almost clear save maybe 3-4 games.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 2:19pm by GongJr
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#11 Oct 03 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Now, I'd say that is dead on, except that it seems that the issue spread to graphical pops too. I've never had the invisible/vanishing NPCs other people have spoken about. Yes, it does take time for them to load via standing still in the area, but it has never refused to draw an NPC. Only when the sound issue happened did it do it. And it wasn't like there were tons of people. When I logged back in, we did the FATE again when it repopped and there were actually more people who showed up (evidenced by the speed we proceeded being much greater than when we started the FATE the first time), and everyone showed up just fine.

It's a very odd issue. I am sorely tempted to pre-order a PS4 primarily for FFXIV.

edit:

I barely use my PS3, it does have Journey on it, as well as a handful of saved games, but nothing even approaching either my PC or XBox for space consumed.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 2:27pm by Pawkeshup
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#12ShadowofaDoubt, Posted: Oct 03 2013 at 12:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I ts the PS3
#13 Oct 03 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Now, I'd say that is dead on, except that it seems that the issue spread to graphical pops too. I've never had the invisible/vanishing NPCs other people have spoken about. Yes, it does take time for them to load via standing still in the area, but it has never refused to draw an NPC. Only when the sound issue happened did it do it. And it wasn't like there were tons of people. When I logged back in, we did the FATE again when it repopped and there were actually more people who showed up (evidenced by the speed we proceeded being much greater than when we started the FATE the first time), and everyone showed up just fine.


Yeah, as I thought about it some more, I realized that my scenario didn't address the graphical issues.

It still "feels" like a memory leak issue, but there's really no way for us to tell the exact mechanism. (Speculating is fun, though Smiley: lol)
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#14 Oct 03 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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It is Smiley: nod

And it could be that it's chewing up available memory too, so it still might account for it. It just bloats and so the graphics engine thinks there's too much data already, so it just de-renders people per its standard rules.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#15 Oct 03 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mine occasionally freezes up for no apparent reason, forcing me to restart the console. Can't even hit the PS button on the controller to go back to the XMB.
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#16 Oct 03 2013 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I have had a couple crashes like that too, but I wrote both off to overcrowded areas. Both times it happened were peak/near-peak for Phoenix, and both times I was in a crowded area (one was a FATE, other was in the mall of **** in Gridania). Both times the game started to churn horribly then I had to force a restart.

Sadly, that has an explanation and it's PS3 limitations >.<
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#17 Oct 03 2013 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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That stuff use to happen to me 360 and FFXI. I don't play much on PS3, so I can't speak to that.
#18 Oct 03 2013 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Out of curiosity, what ps3 models do you guys have?
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#19 Oct 03 2013 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Vawn43 wrote:
That stuff use to happen to me 360 and FFXI. I don't play much on PS3, so I can't speak to that.


On XBox 360, it was primarily due to a really poor quality port of the PS2 version. I am suspecting the same issue here with the PS3 edition being a poorly optimized version of the PC client. I realize the reason behind that is that PS3 is murder on a developer, as the Cell processor is radically different in basic usage than a standard multi-core processor.

GongJr wrote:
Out of curiosity, what ps3 models do you guys have?


Um, it's like.. big... and black and... yea.. I'd have to look. Not there right now to check.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#20 Oct 03 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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Was asking because I've had very few issues on my slim, and didn't know if was the older ones that were having the issues or the super slims.
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#21 Oct 03 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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GongJr wrote:
Was asking because I've had very few issues on my slim, and didn't know if was the older ones that were having the issues or the super slims.

Oh, I know the why of it, sadly I just don't have the info. It would be really interesting. Mine is one of the older models. I think the series just after they cut out the PS2 compatibility. I just don't have my model # and such to check. I know where to grab it and will post it. Really curious if it could be model-specific.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#22 Oct 03 2013 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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GongJr wrote:
Was asking because I've had very few issues on my slim, and didn't know if was the older ones that were having the issues or the super slims.


I've got the new slim and I have seen these issues on occasion. Other than increased load times and poor performance during fates and such, I dont have much of an issue. I can dodge titan's plumes and I have got gold on behemoth (took a while to see him) so the game is playable on the PS3, we just have an inherant disadvantage, especially when PC players on Prae runs zerg the purple line on bosses to cause us to get locked out on purpose thanks to the fact that we have to wait on the cs to load before we can even cancel it.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 3:15pm by Valkayree
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#23 Oct 03 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
GongJr wrote:
Was asking because I've had very few issues on my slim, and didn't know if was the older ones that were having the issues or the super slims.


I've got the new slim and I have seen these issues on occasion. Other than increased load times and poor performance during fates and such, I dont have much of an issue. I can dodge titan's plumes and I have got gold on behemoth (took a while to see him) so the game is playable on the PS3, we just have an inherant disadvantage, especially when PC players on Prae runs zerg the purple line on bosses to cause us to get locked out on purpose thanks to the fact that we have to wait on the cs to load before we can even cancel it.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 3:15pm by Valkayree

Ahhhh,... I saw you mention this in chat the other day. I wondered what you were talking about.

Just another of the myriad forms of douchebaggery. I guess just clap while you have a sandwich and let them carry you through lol. Or play as healer and then watch them wipe lmao.


On topic, I have had the bg music drop out quite often. My biggest gripe right now though is the lag during crafting/gathering. I don't get it all the time, but when it's busy nearby it can be ridiculously slow.
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#24 Oct 03 2013 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
On topic, I have had the bg music drop out quite often. My biggest gripe right now though is the lag during crafting/gathering. I don't get it all the time, but when it's busy nearby it can be ridiculously slow.


I don't think that's specific to the PS3 version. I get the same lag on my (fairly high end) PC when crafting in towns during prime-time.
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#25 Oct 03 2013 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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There are all kinds of issues with the ps3 and SE needs to address them...
First the sound issue happens to everyone I know on the ps3. Eventually all sound drops. This issue has been their since beta.
The other issue is they cant draw everything. In fates with multiple mobs most of them will not show up. If you are in towns it can not draw in most of the people. On Tesee's ps3 she will see 1/4 of the people I see..
Graphics also drop after while. Like I was holding a sparkler and it would not show up on the ps3 and glitches like texture tearing, Like my clothes were just showing up yellow on her screen. Later my staff was just yellow
She has the special edition white 500gb ps3.

I play on the pc right next to her. When you play the ps3 you dont notice allot till you are seeing it next to the pc. I mean if you walk into a town and see 5 people you think there are 5 people but there are really 50 or more people standing there. If you dont move for a while some more will show up...

I am not talking better graphics this is stuff missing. Obviously the pc will have better graphics. Things ps3 players are not seeing in the game.

When I first played the ps3 I thought it was ok now I do not anymore. They need to fix it somehow.. Even if that means lowering the graphics or even textures more... Better than missing things in the game. I been hearing on of the main quest fights you dont see the boss on the ps3 unless everything is turned off...



Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 5:21pm by Nashred
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#26 Oct 03 2013 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
There are all kinds of issues with the ps3 and SE needs to address them...
First the sound issue happens to everyone I know on the ps3. Eventually all sound drops. This issue has been their since beta.
The other issue is they cant draw everything. In fates with multiple mobs most of them will not show up. If you are in towns it can not draw in most of the people. On Tesee's ps3 she will see 1/4 of the people I see..
Graphics also drop after while. Like I was holding a sparkler and it would not show up on the ps3 and glitches like texture tearing, Like my clothes were just showing up yellow on her screen. Later my staff was just yellow
She has the special edition white 500gb ps3.

I play on the pc right next to her. When you play the ps3 you dont notice allot till you are seeing it next to the pc. I mean if you walk into a town and see 5 people you think there are 5 people but there are really 50 or more people standing there. If you dont move for a while some more will show up...

I am not talking better graphics this is stuff missing. Obviously the pc will have better graphics. Things ps3 players are not seeing in the game.

When I first played the ps3 I thought it was ok now I do not anymore. They need to fix it somehow.. Even if that means lowering the graphics or even textures more... Better than missing things in the game. I been hearing on of the main quest fights you dont see the boss on the ps3 unless everything is turned off...



Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 5:21pm by Nashred

Seen you mention this twice now... Which fight are you talking about?
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#27 Oct 03 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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For PS3, you have to remember that players/NPCs pop in slowly if you stand still, allowing for less slowdown when you enter a place.

As for seeing the boss, I saw Ifrit, that's for **** sure.

And as for Tesee, sounds like a bad install/bad PS3. Here's my PS3 in action:

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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#28 Oct 03 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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Just out of curiosity, what are you using to capture the video stream?
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#29 Oct 03 2013 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Pickins wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what are you using to capture the video stream?


I picked it up on Amazon on sale :D

The PS3 doesn't do HDMI, but that's fine. Turns out that you can hook one item into the HDMI, and one to the component, and use the software to switch between feeds to act as a switch. Yea, I know, sounds like an expensive HDMI switch, but **** why not get extra functionality.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#30 Oct 03 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I figured it was something like that. I really like Hauppauge; I've been using their OTA HDTV capture cards for years.

The PS3 enables HDCP on the HDMI output, forcing you to record via component output, correct?
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#31 Oct 03 2013 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Pickins wrote:
Yeah, I figured it was something like that. I really like Hauppauge; I've been using their OTA HDTV capture cards for years.

The PS3 enables HDCP on the HDMI output, forcing you to record via component output, correct?

Yup! I was not happy to see that, but really the quality is only slightly lower once I got it all straightened around in the PS3 settings. I do miss its super crispness, but I'll live. I've wondered about an HDMI switcher, but then if it failed to work, I'd just get ****** for wasting cash.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#32 Oct 03 2013 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
GongJr wrote:
Was asking because I've had very few issues on my slim, and didn't know if was the older ones that were having the issues or the super slims.


I've got the new slim and I have seen these issues on occasion. Other than increased load times and poor performance during fates and such, I dont have much of an issue. I can dodge titan's plumes and I have got gold on behemoth (took a while to see him) so the game is playable on the PS3, we just have an inherant disadvantage, especially when PC players on Prae runs zerg the purple line on bosses to cause us to get locked out on purpose thanks to the fact that we have to wait on the cs to load before we can even cancel it.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 3:15pm by Valkayree



Well that's good to hear, sort of lol. Haven't gotten to praetorum yet, so I'm really not sure what you mean. PC can cancel the cutscenes earlier? Or the ps3 just loads them slower? I'll just hope I don't have any of those background music issues or the like and maybe the new hardware will help with the loading issues until I get my hands on a ps4.
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#33 Oct 03 2013 at 7:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
So this has happened on a fairly regular basis now, and I am not sure if it's a bug, an issue with my PS3, an issue with PS3 in general, or what. Here's how it goes.

If I play for a day (I am fortunate enough to work 7 on 7 off, so this can happen regularly), sometimes after being on for a few hours, or after crossing through a heavily populated area, I will start to lose sound effects. Normally it starts with some of the players around me, then mine start to drop out. Eventually, if I don't restart, I lose the background music. Now. I thought this was as far as it went, and normally by that point I've rebooted as having a totally silent game drives me mad.

However, recently I played on, just trying to get through a few more quests with my fiancee. We were out near Little Al Migho and headed down the stairs towards the level 46 area for a quest just before there (the Tea quest, if anyone knows it). I ran down and started looking for NPCs, but the area was clear of them, it was just me and my fiancee onscreen. At least, for me it was clear. My fiancee was telling me she saw a FATE she could start (the Flames scout escort FATE). Again, I saw nothing. I told her to start it. She asked if I saw anything. Eventually the NPC popped but frozen in a run stance, moving like one of those electric football players, gliding in frozen stance.

As the FATE progressed, a few other players appeared, then I saw a couple enemies here and there. But never did everyone appear. I exited the game and logged back in, and everything went back to normal. I felt the PS3, and it wasn't hot or blowing excessive hot air, so I don't think it's heat. It seems to be associated with any time I cross an area with a large number of sounds or characters, there is a chance that the sounds start dying. It normally doesn't happen in a short period of play, it takes a couple of big FATEs or an extended playtime to really get it to happen.

Am I alone on this, or is this an issue others have had happen?


This has been accepted as a bug on the official forums:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/101012-PS3-Degradation-of-performance-since-latest-patch.
#34 Oct 03 2013 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Not the same at all Xoie. Textures don't downgrade, and movement doesn't stutter. Mobs don't jump. The only movement issue I saw was the one NPC frozen in run stance. When other players and enemies appeared, they all moved and acted 100% normal. My fiancee's character was crystal clear and moved normally. I even saw aggro lines between her and enemies, just not the enemies.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#35 Oct 04 2013 at 12:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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GongJr wrote:
Out of curiosity, what ps3 models do you guys have?

I've got one of the original 60 GB models. Bought it off a friend about six months after the initial launch. He said he needed the money. Smiley: dubious
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#36 Oct 04 2013 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
GongJr wrote:
Was asking because I've had very few issues on my slim, and didn't know if was the older ones that were having the issues or the super slims.


I've got the new slim and I have seen these issues on occasion. Other than increased load times and poor performance during fates and such, I dont have much of an issue. I can dodge titan's plumes and I have got gold on behemoth (took a while to see him) so the game is playable on the PS3, we just have an inherant disadvantage, especially when PC players on Prae runs zerg the purple line on bosses to cause us to get locked out on purpose thanks to the fact that we have to wait on the cs to load before we can even cancel it.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 3:15pm by Valkayree

Ahhhh,... I saw you mention this in chat the other day. I wondered what you were talking about.

Just another of the myriad forms of douchebaggery. I guess just clap while you have a sandwich and let them carry you through lol. Or play as healer and then watch them wipe lmao.

On topic, I have had the bg music drop out quite often. My biggest gripe right now though is the lag during crafting/gathering. I don't get it all the time, but when it's busy nearby it can be ridiculously slow.


True, its a form of elitism sadly. The asshats that are doing this (Uncle Dolan, looking at you) wont wipe, they are full darklight with relic +1. They are worried about how fast they can beat it, not whether they can beat it, or I would be pretty happy with watching them wipe. What they likely don't realize is that if they waited 5 seconds for me to catch up to the battle before triggering the 15 second count, my 1700+ crits on my relic would save them 30+ seconds in that battle they locked me out of. Love being booted and told to "get a computer". I can't run prae at all due to this.

And back on topic, that lag on crafting has disturbed my macros more than once.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 10:41am by Valkayree

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 10:43am by Valkayree
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#37 Oct 04 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
Nashred wrote:
There are all kinds of issues with the ps3 and SE needs to address them...
First the sound issue happens to everyone I know on the ps3. Eventually all sound drops. This issue has been their since beta.
The other issue is they cant draw everything. In fates with multiple mobs most of them will not show up. If you are in towns it can not draw in most of the people. On Tesee's ps3 she will see 1/4 of the people I see..
Graphics also drop after while. Like I was holding a sparkler and it would not show up on the ps3 and glitches like texture tearing, Like my clothes were just showing up yellow on her screen. Later my staff was just yellow
She has the special edition white 500gb ps3.

I play on the pc right next to her. When you play the ps3 you dont notice allot till you are seeing it next to the pc. I mean if you walk into a town and see 5 people you think there are 5 people but there are really 50 or more people standing there. If you dont move for a while some more will show up...

I am not talking better graphics this is stuff missing. Obviously the pc will have better graphics. Things ps3 players are not seeing in the game.

When I first played the ps3 I thought it was ok now I do not anymore. They need to fix it somehow.. Even if that means lowering the graphics or even textures more... Better than missing things in the game. I been hearing on of the main quest fights you dont see the boss on the ps3 unless everything is turned off...



Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 5:21pm by Nashred

Seen you mention this twice now... Which fight are you talking about?


I am not sure which.. Our free company was talking about it... They said you had to have the best internet and turn off all affects and even then the mob didnt show up all the time...
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#38 Oct 04 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
For PS3, you have to remember that players/NPCs pop in slowly if you stand still, allowing for less slowdown when you enter a place.

As for seeing the boss, I saw Ifrit, that's for **** sure.

And as for Tesee, sounds like a bad install/bad PS3. Here's my PS3 in action:



It is not a bad install... I know other people who have the same issues... Problem is when you are on the ps3 and dont play along with someone on a pc you dont see whats you are missing...

As far as the dungeon issue that was coming out of the Zam free company..

Fact is even SE said the ps3 has limitations that do not let it draw in everything and would not be a problem with the ps4. I wish I could find it..


The question is what does it decide to draw and what does it decide to leave out?

Example this wasn't Tesee but another friend on the ps3. We were in the market place which is high volume area, I stood in front of him for about 12 to 15 min and I never showed up on his screen. The ps3 simply could not draw all the people in the area. Tesee was in party with me and she could see me but he also could not see her I dont think she could see him either.


I mean you dont see it if you dont have a computer running next to the ps3. You walk into a guild on a ps3 and after a bit you see 20 people zone in and you have no idea that there are another 10 to 20 people there, how would you know.. So most people on the ps3 dont know that these other people are there unless you are looking for someone and this person does not show up. Or you go into a fate with gnats and you see 3 gnats and think to yourself hey there are 3 gnats but you dont realize there are actually 7 there but how do you know it unless you see them on a pc next too you.. you have no idea what you are missing.


I have a friend that uses this stuff to his advantage, in a way on some fates it is advantage not to see the 30 people in the fate, it makes it easier to target stuff when you dont see the 30 people running around in a fate. Another thing he does is zone out and zone in if he needs to talk to a npc that is crammed with people around it.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 1:26pm by Nashred
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#39 Oct 04 2013 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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Easily the worst fights for this issue are behemoth and odin, but it also occurs in many places in coerthas and mor dhona.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 2:19pm by Valkayree
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