Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5
This thread is locked

A bit confused on endgame crafted gear...Follow

#1 Oct 04 2013 at 1:42 AM Rating: Default
**
952 posts
What I mean is endgame crafted gear stats weighed in comparison with endgame raid gear stats.

If we know that certain stats matter more than others, like strength being the best stat a Dragoon or Monk can equip, we can then look and see that raid gear has much more strength than crafted gear.

Even if one were able to add tier 4 or higher materia, which you can't on an item with iLevel 70, it still wouldn't be better.

If the crafting system and materia are to matter they would need to introduce iLevel 90 meld-able gear.

So my question is, did they give any mention of implementing iLevel 90 meld-able gear? As I see it right now the materia and crafting system, for gear, is useless or am I missing something?

Edited, Oct 8th 2013 11:39pm by Wint Lock Thread: Yawn
#2 Oct 04 2013 at 1:44 AM Rating: Excellent
I would like to see rare material that could give craft able gear a boost.
____________________________
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
#3 Oct 04 2013 at 1:49 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Not long ago, forbidden-melded gryphonskin gear was actually better than the best you could obtain via raiding.
I think it's reasonable to have the best gear be the rare/ex result of your own skill (raiding), not the product of
the gil you bought at www.chinesegil.com.
#4 Oct 04 2013 at 2:22 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,330 posts
With the way tradeskill gear is set up, you really can't just look at the gear listed and dismiss it as inferior right away. Not unless you are looking at the high quality version and somehow know the stat caps of the other possible stats you can slot in. Jewelry is probably one of the biggest examples, because the extraneous stats you can toss on a tradeskilled one can easily translate to more effectiveness over the ilevel 90 drops, simply because of your greater freedom of control over what you are putting in it.
#5 Oct 04 2013 at 2:26 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
**
322 posts
I am still tring to level weaving but finding myself wondering why for this exact reason. Raid gear is better, darklight is better, alot of what i see is just better even after melding. I can see myself making gear for lower jobs cheaper than I can buy from npc, but since you can buy all level basic gear from npcs, out in the field I keep wondering why. It may just be me but I was hoping all endgame crafted gear would be the best, or like in xi where you made cursed gear, that people who bought had to un curse. This would make endgame gears still harrd to get, mats would be rare from dungeons, and uncurse items would be the same. This way you would have a choice to go raid gear or crafted cursed gear.
____________________________
Arucard (Retiered)
75 black mage 75 samurai 75 warrior 75 monk
75 Bard 69 Thief 75 White Mage
Formaly of Unicorn
-----------
FFXIV: Ashara Strangelove
Ultros Server
Whm 50, Blm 50, Smn/Sch 50, Drg 50, Pld 50, Brd 50
50 War, Bot 50, Mnr 50, Fsh 50

FC: Syn
#6 Oct 04 2013 at 2:29 AM Rating: Decent
**
952 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Not long ago, forbidden-melded gryphonskin gear was actually better than the best you could obtain via raiding.
I think it's reasonable to have the best gear be the rare/ex result of your own skill (raiding), not the product of
the gil you bought at www.chinesegil.com.


As of right now the crafted iLevel 70 gear requires you to get Allagan Tomestones Of Philosophy to purchase a necessary ingredient to make said gear. I'd like to also add that crafting said gear isn't exactly easy and does require some luck. I don't see how adding iLevel 90 gear that requires you to farm raids for tokens to get the crafting mats is a bad thing. You would still have to do the raid only this way you aren't trying for a loot drop from a boss monster and instead are trying for tokens.

Gear should drop from raids but the best gear should be made not dropped and should have mats only purchasable from NPC vendors with tokens from the same raid. This way people still have to run raids and it keeps crafting relevant.
#7 Oct 04 2013 at 2:38 AM Rating: Decent
**
952 posts
Ravashack wrote:
With the way tradeskill gear is set up, you really can't just look at the gear listed and dismiss it as inferior right away. Not unless you are looking at the high quality version and somehow know the stat caps of the other possible stats you can slot in. Jewelry is probably one of the biggest examples, because the extraneous stats you can toss on a tradeskilled one can easily translate to more effectiveness over the ilevel 90 drops, simply because of your greater freedom of control over what you are putting in it.


There are websites that list the HQ stats of this gear but the fact remains that it's still iLevel 70 gear which means the stats are capped for an iLevel 70. For instance, take the Gryphonskin Jerkin piece which has +20 strength on the HQ version compared to the Allagan Cuirass Of Striking which has +29. Item levels change the stats significantly.
#8 Oct 04 2013 at 3:53 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,556 posts
There are current slots for EVERY job that have a BiS (best in slot) item. This ranges from crafted HQ gear (with materia melded), to Allagan, to AF2.

You need to do some research on what is best for you.

For instance, here's BLM:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1ne0xd/black_mage_mythology_vs_allagan_gear_comparison/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1njoee/best_in_slot_blm_gear/

Some of that information is up for debate since no one has really been in coils long enough to definitely say x gear is better than y gear for z slot. There are also a lot of unknowns when it comes to stats and the magical damage formula isn't as straightforward as you'd think.

Given this, you can see that AF2 head is better but gloves are Allagan and the crafted ring with materia meld is better than the other options.

It's a mix of the three. As more information is accumulated, we'll have a better idea which is actually BiS.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 2:51am by HitomeOfBismarck
#9 Oct 04 2013 at 5:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Not long ago, forbidden-melded gryphonskin gear was actually better than the best you could obtain via raiding.
I think it's reasonable to have the best gear be the rare/ex result of your own skill (raiding), not the product of
the gil you bought at www.chinesegil.com.

And it's mentalities like this that basically stagnate the evolution of progression schemes within MMOs. Why does equipment crafting inevitably become useless to people in so many of these games? Because people foolishly demand dungeon drops be better. Why? So people will want to run dungeons. What if you don't like dungeons? ********** off and enjoy being gimp." I don't even agree with the sentiment another expressed the dungeon-quality crafts should require dungeon drops, direct or token-based, because they're rather unlikely to hit the market at a fair cost. Forget about that RMT bogeyman for a minute and understand that raiding isn't for everyone. People will still want their characters to grow, though, and ideally by ways other than farming thousands of shards just to get enough gil to buy something second-rate before considering best case materia scenarios that'll add even more expense and uncertainty. Enjoy the dungeons for the challenge, not the ability to lord over people who don't have the same gear. Every time I see someone advocating this kind of gap, ultimately I just see someone petty over the possibility someone they'll never interact with might not work as hard as they did for some pixels. Work is still work, be it solo or in an alliance. The only benefit grouped content should offer is quicker access given the expected difficulty.
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#10 Oct 04 2013 at 5:07 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
787 posts
I saw a breathtaking set of crafting gear the previous evening. While waiting for a Coil run to start, I noticed a familiar player wearing non-combat gear so I walked over to take a look. He was wearing 100% HQ crafting gear and every Materia slot was filled with crafting materia III. A lot of hard work went into crafting everything and grinding to get all that materia.Compared to my crafting sets, I felt like i was wearing rags. LOL.
#11 Oct 04 2013 at 6:14 AM Rating: Default
****
4,172 posts
Seriha wrote:
And it's mentalities like this that basically stagnate the evolution of progression schemes within MMOs. Why does equipment crafting inevitably become useless to people in so many of these games? Because people foolishly demand dungeon drops be better. Why? So people will want to run dungeons. What if you don't like dungeons?


Why would you even care about gear for raids if you're not... you know, raiding? If you don't care about dungeons then what you wear doesn't really matter and shouldn't be a concern.

I think his point is that if you don't earn the gear then you haven't really proven that you have the necessary skill to put it to use, even if you could craft it. If you make it available to anyone, it kinda defeats the purpose of raiding.

The general idea of raiding is that each subsequent raid becomes increasingly more difficult and the rewards become better as you progress. That's what progression is about and that's why it's the more popular and most common model for running dungeon content. Sure it's not for everyone, but it works the way it does because that's how people(the majority anyway) who do enjoy it, want it to work.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#12 Oct 04 2013 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
**
655 posts
Vanya silk gear is better than dark light. Once you get the HQ versions all the stats are capped than you free to pump in crit rate.
#13 Oct 04 2013 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
575 posts
This is why I miss FFXI equipment swapping macros along with different abilities requiring different stats. The end result is you can make use out of 4 or 5 different gear pieces for each slot. This would allow room for gear from dungeons, gear from crafting and gear from whatever else to all have a purpose. Yeah, you need to do more stuff to get different gear sets - but isn't that the goal? More carrots to chase after to give purpose for all the things you do in the game, without suddenly rending all you previous now worthless.

This is why there were still people doing Sky and Dynamis in FFXI years after newer end-game events were released. The new gear was better for some abilities, while the old stuff was better for others.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 10:51am by Vawn43
#14 Oct 04 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
CupDeNoodles wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
With the way tradeskill gear is set up, you really can't just look at the gear listed and dismiss it as inferior right away. Not unless you are looking at the high quality version and somehow know the stat caps of the other possible stats you can slot in. Jewelry is probably one of the biggest examples, because the extraneous stats you can toss on a tradeskilled one can easily translate to more effectiveness over the ilevel 90 drops, simply because of your greater freedom of control over what you are putting in it.


There are websites that list the HQ stats of this gear but the fact remains that it's still iLevel 70 gear which means the stats are capped for an iLevel 70. For instance, take the Gryphonskin Jerkin piece which has +20 strength on the HQ version compared to the Allagan Cuirass Of Striking which has +29. Item levels change the stats significantly.


But the crafted gear has slots so you could slot in strength materia to boost that stat.
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#15 Oct 04 2013 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,330 posts
Valkayree wrote:
CupDeNoodles wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
With the way tradeskill gear is set up, you really can't just look at the gear listed and dismiss it as inferior right away. Not unless you are looking at the high quality version and somehow know the stat caps of the other possible stats you can slot in. Jewelry is probably one of the biggest examples, because the extraneous stats you can toss on a tradeskilled one can easily translate to more effectiveness over the ilevel 90 drops, simply because of your greater freedom of control over what you are putting in it.


There are websites that list the HQ stats of this gear but the fact remains that it's still iLevel 70 gear which means the stats are capped for an iLevel 70. For instance, take the Gryphonskin Jerkin piece which has +20 strength on the HQ version compared to the Allagan Cuirass Of Striking which has +29. Item levels change the stats significantly.


But the crafted gear has slots so you could slot in strength materia to boost that stat.


The HQ crafted adventurer gear caps the stat as part of HQ. But you can put in Determination or Critical Hit.
#16 Oct 04 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
***
2,214 posts
The crafted gear HQed in and of itself (with a 5xmeld) will have better overall stats than its Darklight equivalent.

The only argument I have heard to counter that is that the Crafted gear is not worth the effort, as it is not the final tier of gear available right now. The final tier being Allagan/AF+1. As a result, there is an active debate between those two.

And as a result, people use Darklight as the fastest stepping stone from AF to AF+1. And leave the crafted vs dropped as an academic question.
#17 Oct 04 2013 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
There are current slots for EVERY job that have a BiS (best in slot) item. This ranges from crafted HQ gear (with materia melded), to Allagan, to AF2.

You need to do some research on what is best for you.

For instance, here's BLM:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1ne0xd/black_mage_mythology_vs_allagan_gear_comparison/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1njoee/best_in_slot_blm_gear/

Some of that information is up for debate since no one has really been in coils long enough to definitely say x gear is better than y gear for z slot. There are also a lot of unknowns when it comes to stats and the magical damage formula isn't as straightforward as you'd think.

Given this, you can see that AF2 body and head is better but gloves are Allagan and the crafted ring with materia meld is better than the other options.

It's a mix of the two. As more information is accumulated, we'll have a better idea which is actually BiS.


Wow, I only have one item on that list, "Hero's ring of casting". I need to get to work. I also find it odd that they want the AF2 robe instead of the vanya, but they want the vanya hat. Also, they recommend to get the AF2 body before the Relic +1. Hogwash.
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#18 Oct 04 2013 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
**
352 posts
I find it cool they gave people two ways to gear up to get that ilvl 90 gear, like everyone has been saying the crafted gear is on par with the darklight gear, both our ilvl 70, so ether raid for tomes for gear or raid for tomes to turn in for mats, ill be crafting the gear, that rose gold jewerly looks so nice!
____________________________
Goblin: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2192910/
Beastmaster ~<3 Cant wait.
Gold smithing till the day i die!
#19 Oct 04 2013 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,426 posts
as someone mentioned earlier, some crafted gear is actually better than DL, Darksteel Haub for instance. HQ with melds blows DL body out of the water for DRG. But yeah, i'm just gonna wait to get AF2.
____________________________
monk
dragoon
[ffxivsig]477065[/ffxivsig]
#20 Oct 04 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
132 posts
Are you not allowed to add multiple gear sets for the same class/job? I haven't actually had a reason to try yet.
____________________________
Rayve Mendicant : Ultros
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
#21 Oct 04 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,556 posts
Not all of those comments are accurate. Need to read them to realize what's BS and what isn't.

This gear suggestion is probably best:

http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/2153/End-game-BLM-gear

Read this, though:

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1njoee/best_in_slot_blm_gear/

Notice how AF2 hat is mentioned as the BiS over the other two options. In the first link, no crafted gear is used however if you look at my current earring and compare it with the one they recommend (Allagan):

Allagan: 13 INT, 16 CRIT, 11 SS
Crafted earring: 9 INT, 9 CRIT, 9 MND, 12 SS

then 5 melds which can net you:

8 DET, 12 ACC, 3 CRIT

Crafted: 9 INT, 12 CRIT, 9 MND, 12 SS, 8 DET, 12 ACC

I have a feeling, though, that Allagan is better simply because it has more crit and INT.

Also, relic+1 is the best DPS upgrade. If you are doing endgame content and are already past turn 2, you should get your relic+1. Other than that, why rush it? Neither turn 1 or turn 2 are a DPS race. In fact, turn 2 is a lesson in learning to control your aggro as a DPS if your tanks are new too. Also, our magic damage is gimped when we take the left path so that's also working against us. Despite that, a DRG with pretty nice gear and a relic+1 usually parses 1% above me on turn 2. This is after we've taken the path that amplifies his DPS and nerfs mine.

What I have seen in turn 1 and turn 2, though, is that people like to die to piercing laser or some other crap that can be avoided. HP helps a tad more. Since your AF2 head and body are BiS iirc, then the minor DPS loss shouldn't be that noticeable.

Though, I'd never recommend a DPS (besides BRD) to go for something other than relic+1 first, most people seem to need that DPS in order to beat fights that aren't really DPS checks. :x

Edited, Oct 5th 2013 2:49am by HitomeOfBismarck
#22 Oct 04 2013 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
4,775 posts
silverhope wrote:
Vanya silk gear is better than dark light. Once you get the HQ versions all the stats are capped than you free to pump in crit rate.


If you want to make comparisons, I would compare any crafted gear to relic gear. Dark Light is a good first step, but nowhere near the absolute best.
#23 Oct 04 2013 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
***
2,214 posts
I am curious, with all of the comparisons, I have yet to hear how Item level factors into the equation.
#24 Oct 04 2013 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:

Though, I'd never recommend a DPS (besides BRD) to go for something other than relic+1 first, most people seem to need that DPS in order to beat fights that aren't really DPS checks. :x


Yeah I would think that with DPS in most cases the relic+1 is the first thing to shoot for.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 12:20pm by Valkayree
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#25 Oct 04 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
**
952 posts
See, that is what most people don't understand about crafted gear. Any stats on a piece of HQ crafted gear is the max that piece can achieve in said stat. In my example you cannot add more strength to it. If you use all crafted gear there is a HUGE difference in strength and you cannot add anymore. You just can't.

Now from what I read personally, which I don't claim to be true, certain stats are better. When we talk about Dragoon or Monk for instance the best stats are strength> accuracy to cap ( which I believe is 131 in gear or 472 total) > determination > skill speed <> critical rate. If someone can offer me a link to hard numbers that tell me that determination and critical rate or skill speed is better than that huge chuck of missing strength then please do so. If what is being said now of stats then the ability to meld a couple of determination materia or a couple of critical rate or whatever to me doesn't make up for the lost strength.

Now if they were introduce iLevel 90 crafted gear then this all becomes a non-issue. What I fear they will do is introduce some raid gear that can be melded which will destroy any chance crafted gear has at being meaningful.

This all comes down to which stats are better and most sources I've seen tell me that it's strength for my example. You just cannot compare iLevel 70 to iLevel 90 no matter how much materia you meld to it.
#26 Oct 04 2013 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
*****
12,830 posts
Vawn43 wrote:
This is why I miss FFXI equipment swapping macros along with different abilities requiring different stats.

This, I do not miss. At all. Ever. It was a terrible system.

"HAY GUIES I GOT A GREAT IDEA LETS MAKE A GAME WITH 20 PLAYABLE JOBS BUT THEN INCENTIVIZE CARRYING 70 PIECES OF GEAR FOR EACH ONE TO BE UBER AT IT!!!"
____________________________
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pawkeshup
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/pawkeshup
Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/pawkeshup
Blog: http://pawkeshup.blogspot.com
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5
This thread is locked
You cannot post in a locked topic!
Recent Visitors: 1 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (1)