Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

So you want to be a tank?Follow

#1 Oct 04 2013 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
*
92 posts
So you decided you want to give tank a shot. Marauder or gladiator, they're both fun. You do some quests, then some fates, and before you know it, you're 15. Lets join sastasha!

You get in, monster attacks healer on first pull, you wipe, everyone screams at you and asks if you are mentally handicapped in not such a nice manner.

I've seen it a hundred times playing as a non-tank in those dungeons.

It's not your fault.

Ok maybe it is.

But you didn't know, because SE gave you fate's so hate management is a completely foreign concept to you! Unfortunately, it's super important, and you had better get it down before long or you're gonna have a bad time in those dungeons.

The first thing you need to know, is if the monster doesn't hate you, you're doing something wrong. But how do you know? Typically by whether or not it's looking at you. Plus SE added that little hate meter cheat sheet, so you can check that too. If it's not flashing red, you're going to have a problem.

"Great, I shall start by insulting their mother."

Close.

Great hate management starts with a great pull. Level 15 job quest should give marauder tomahawk and gladiator shield lob. These are CRITICAL skills, because they're ranged attacks, and all part getting the best initial pull you can.

Next is positioning. Monsters face you and away from the rest of the party. That means the order should be you, monsters, DD's, then mages. There's 2 big reasons for that. First, monsters often do aoe moves in a cone in front of them. If the monster is facing you, there's no way the cone can hit the DPS on the other side. Second, many melee jobs gain a benefit or have a skill that requires being either behind or to the side of the monsters. Having them face you and away from them makes it easier for them to do the most damage.

A party is like a single warrior, and as a tank, damage is not your priority. Hate is. You are the armor so the sword can cut. The armor does not do the damage, the sword does. If there's no armor, or crappy armor, the sword can't do it's job. It's a crappy analogy but it's all I could come up with.

Hate moves. Each job has 3. First is your ranged attack, either tomahawk or shield lob. Then there is your aoe attack, overpower or flash. Last there is your 2 hit combo, which requires you to use it in combination to get the added effect: Increase Hate.

Overpower vs Flash. Lets say overpower generates 100 hate. Then flash would generate 80 hate. Overpower generates more hate than flash, but flash is a true AoE 360 degree ability. Overpower is a cone in front of you, so you MUST be facing the monsters for it to work. Flash is MP based, vs overpower being TP based. Gladiator's have a combo that restores MP, so if you run out you can't use flash until you get some MP back. In my experience TP regenerates faster than MP, especially in combat, so marauders only have to wait a couple seconds.

"I'll just spam aoe hate and the monsters will hate me all day long!"

Great idea! Except it won't work, you'll be completely out of MP/TP because these moves consume a LOT of MP/TP. Overpower and flash are designed to only hold hate over the healers cures. If something else attacks it, they'll generate more hate and you will be ignored almost instantly.

Lets put some numbers on things. These numbers don't represent actual hate, but give you an idea.
Ranged attack: 100 hate
AoE Hate Move: 100 hate
Combo Move: 180 hate
Cure: 70 hate

So you get cured twice, the mob is going to forget you because now the healer has 140 hate and you only did your ranged for 100, or only did your AoE for 100. Your combo move doesn't take much TP or MP, but generates a ton of hate. But you can't do only that, because the other monsters will forget about you, you need to alternate.

Ok, that's a bit about how hate works, lets talk about the actual pull and tanking!

I could type it all out but this fancy picture I made explains it better.

http://i.imgur.com/feEi6ul.jpg

Naturally, not everything is the same every time, but this should be good enough to get you started. Good luck and happy tanking.
____________________________
Sites hosting illegal downloads, "private" servers, or material that has been brought to our attention as being in violation U.S. law is not allowed and will be immediately removed. All copyrighted content, regardless of format, that is submitted to the forums will be removed at the request of the copyright holder.

Heroes are what you make them...
#2 Oct 04 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
And dont forget to mark targets...
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#3PocketHockey, Posted: Oct 04 2013 at 9:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That helps but if dps isn't retarded they can figure it out. At lower levels it's not critical. It's good practice for when you get to higher levels.
#4 Oct 04 2013 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
PocketHockey wrote:
That helps but if dps isn't retarded they can figure it out. At lower levels it's not critical. It's good practice for when you get to higher levels.


Even non-retarded DPS like to be able to sleep targets without other non-retarded DPS accidentally hitting them (especially when working with mutliple identical enemies) to take off the effect.
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#5 Oct 04 2013 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,556 posts
PocketHockey wrote:
That helps but if dps isn't retarded they can figure it out. At lower levels it's not critical. It's good practice for when you get to higher levels.


Sorry but it would seem you are still a tank in training if you haven't mastered this by now: not qualified to give advice to new tanks. You mark mobs from 15 to 50 in dungeons. There is a preset macro in your macro section that is specifically designed for marking the target you're currently attacking. This is all that is needed, honestly. Any other mobs, the DPS should be CCing them if possible.

Don't just assume they can read your mind and that makes it easy to find your target. When I'm sitting in the back row with the healer and you're fighting 5~6 mobs stacked on top of each other, it isn't easy to find even given assist. If you are a good tank, you're probably tab targeting to build threat on multiple targets (that aren't slept) making assist rather useless.

More often than not, the tank is smacking the mob that actually isn't immune to sleep while the other mobs attacking him are immune to sleep and should be prioritized first.

After getting PLD to 42 or so, I've never run a dungeon without marking what I'm currently focusing on. Takes less than a second since it's bound into one of my macros.
#6 Oct 04 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
2,426 posts
PocketHockey wrote:
That helps but if dps isn't retarded they can figure it out. At lower levels it's not critical. It's good practice for when you get to higher levels.


its always best practice
____________________________
monk
dragoon

#7 Oct 04 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:

After getting PLD to 42 or so, I've never run a dungeon without marking what I'm currently focusing on. Takes less than a second since it's bound into one of my macros.


On PS3 I hit square on a target and select "Mark" then I can assign that mark to hotkey. I put 1, 2, and 3 up there. Thats all I need. I've got my gld to 22 now so it is a work in progress, but marking targets is important in any party setting.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 10:57am by Valkayree

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 10:57am by Valkayree
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#8 Oct 04 2013 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,112 posts
One thing I find as a tank that is never written down in guides.

In nearly every case, you are the leader. Whether you like that position or not. People in the group will look to you for direction, you'll control the pace of progress. More than likely you'll shoulder the blame if things go badly. It's a strange thing to observe if you've any passing interest in psychology. A good tank can use this to leverage more out of a group than it is currently giving. Just little lines like "Man, we were so close! This time lets really chase those cooldowns!" or "You're going a great job Dragoon. If you could just give me an extra second before you go mad I'll be able to keep up with your insane aggro". Very cheesy I know, but kind words in an assumed position of power is a very effective way of getting even pants-on-heads and instant-flamers to do what you want them to.
____________________________
To endanger the soul endangers all,
when the soul is endangered it must become a Warrior.
#9 Oct 04 2013 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
*
92 posts
I mark targets. But explaining how to mark targets will be very different for controller vs keyboard, and even controller vs controller. It's something that people need to figure out a good way that works for them. My goal was to focus on hate management.
____________________________
Sites hosting illegal downloads, "private" servers, or material that has been brought to our attention as being in violation U.S. law is not allowed and will be immediately removed. All copyrighted content, regardless of format, that is submitted to the forums will be removed at the request of the copyright holder.

Heroes are what you make them...
#10 Oct 04 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
"You're going a great job Dragoon. If you could just give me an extra second before you go mad I'll be able to keep up with your insane aggro"


You're good enough, you're smart enough and doggone it people like you?
#11 Oct 04 2013 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
424 posts
Valkayree wrote:
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:

After getting PLD to 42 or so, I've never run a dungeon without marking what I'm currently focusing on. Takes less than a second since it's bound into one of my macros.


On PS3 I hit square on a target and select "Mark" then I can assign that mark to hotkey. I put 1, 2, and 3 up there. Thats all I need. I've got my gld to 22 now so it is a work in progress, but marking targets is important in any party setting.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 10:57am by Valkayree

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 10:57am by Valkayree


If I may, your system may work good, but a better way that I have found is to set all of the possible markings to one of your cross bar sets. Mine is set in the third set, so before a pull, I hit R1 twice to get to it, then just hit the corresponding buttons to mark highlighted targets. I used the same system you did too, until impatient Bards made me speed up my game a bit, and once you get used to it, it works pretty slick. Just trying to help. =)

On another note, I hate sleep. For me, there is not one dungeon in the game I have come across that requires any of the mobs in the pull to be sleeped. As a WAR tank, it's annoying if a BLM tries to lay down a mass sleep before I can even fire off 1 OP, leading me to not care if I break your sleep spell you felt so inclined to cast before I can group everything up, in favor instead of getting full hate on everything. I do not mind sleep if it's timed correctly. I do use flash, but as a WAR, my MP pool is lacking to say the least. The way I look at premature sleeps, is that if you fire it off before I have a chance to get full hate on the whole pull, when the mobs wake, they are going to zerg for the rest of the party, and then all **** breaks loose. My job is to protect the party first and foremost. If at any time an enemy is asleep and not under my control, I have no problem hitting them with a tomahawk or OP to swing it my way. Obviously, if it's a fubar pull from the start, and the rest of the party feels in danger cause I'm having a hard time picking mobs up, feel free to sleep to save your own skin.


Edited, Oct 4th 2013 1:02pm by supermegazeke
____________________________
MJK wrote:
Is this a test?
It has to be. Otherwise I can't go on.
Draining patience. drain vitality.
this paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old.

[Charlie Towser-The Kraken Club-Ultros[NA]-WAR]
#12 Oct 04 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Default
***
2,214 posts
I personally am against marking, as marking requires 5 macros for mob switching, where /assist only requires 1.

But, the general public tends to favor marking for some sick twisted bizarre reason... So, I mark, and become incredibly frustrated as DDs still literally and figuratively miss the mark and attack the wrong mob, because they don't use /target <attack#> macros when switching mobs.
#13 Oct 04 2013 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
PocketHockey wrote:
I mark targets. But explaining how to mark targets will be very different for controller vs keyboard, and even controller vs controller. It's something that people need to figure out a good way that works for them. My goal was to focus on hate management.


Your hate management section was excellent
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#14 Oct 04 2013 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
rfolkker wrote:
I personally am against marking, as marking requires 5 macros for mob switching, where /assist only requires 1.

But, the general public tends to favor marking for some sick twisted bizarre reason... So, I mark, and become incredibly frustrated as DDs still literally and figuratively miss the mark and attack the wrong mob, because they don't use /target <attack#> macros when switching mobs.


Ultimately, the number of targets you mark is up to you, but you can always build in a mark into a regular attack macro to at least mark the target you are attacking, although then it would be hilarious when you forget to rotate your setup and are auto marking farming targets outside of parties...
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#15 Oct 04 2013 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
supermegazeke wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:

After getting PLD to 42 or so, I've never run a dungeon without marking what I'm currently focusing on. Takes less than a second since it's bound into one of my macros.


On PS3 I hit square on a target and select "Mark" then I can assign that mark to hotkey. I put 1, 2, and 3 up there. Thats all I need. I've got my gld to 22 now so it is a work in progress, but marking targets is important in any party setting.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 10:57am by Valkayree

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 10:57am by Valkayree


If I may, your system may work good, but a better way that I have found is to set all of the possible markings to one of your cross bar sets. Mine is set in the third set, so before a pull, I hit R1 twice to get to it, then just hit the corresponding buttons to mark highlighted targets. I used the same system you did too, until impatient Bards made me speed up my game a bit, and once you get used to it, it works pretty slick. Just trying to help. =)

On another note, I hate sleep. For me, there is not one dungeon in the game I have come across that requires any of the mobs in the pull to be sleeped.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 1:02pm by supermegazeke


The groups of preists in AK should be slept and the sleepers can be slept to make it easier.

And I do throw the markings onto my main crossbar set for now. I dont even have to hit R1. Im sure that will change as I level the gld higher and have access to more abilities.
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#16 Oct 04 2013 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
*
92 posts
I mark 1/2, if there's 4+ mobs I'll change my marks int he battle as they die.

I use L2 crossbar to start, x and circle are 1/2, run in and square which is my ranged attack. Then switch to R2 crossbar and x to overpower, circle/square for the hate combo, fracture on triangle.

It's easy now, but I'm sure it'll get complicated as I get more skills in higher level.

I really hate controller targeting. They really need to do something to fix it.
____________________________
Sites hosting illegal downloads, "private" servers, or material that has been brought to our attention as being in violation U.S. law is not allowed and will be immediately removed. All copyrighted content, regardless of format, that is submitted to the forums will be removed at the request of the copyright holder.

Heroes are what you make them...
#17 Oct 04 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
424 posts
rfolkker wrote:
I personally am against marking, as marking requires 5 macros for mob switching, where /assist only requires 1.

But, the general public tends to favor marking for some sick twisted bizarre reason... So, I mark, and become incredibly frustrated as DDs still literally and figuratively miss the mark and attack the wrong mob, because they don't use /target <attack#> macros when switching mobs.


Could you explain a little bit in to what you mean? I am not understanding why you would need 5 different macros, like 1-5 for each marked mob? Like, if you make the macro /target <attack3>, will your charc switch to whatever target has a 3 over there head? The reason I ask is that I haven't really ever run into targeting problems in a dungeon enough to macro for targeting.
____________________________
MJK wrote:
Is this a test?
It has to be. Otherwise I can't go on.
Draining patience. drain vitality.
this paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old.

[Charlie Towser-The Kraken Club-Ultros[NA]-WAR]
#18 Oct 04 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
4,775 posts
PocketHockey wrote:

"I'll just spam aoe hate and the monsters will hate me all day long!"

Great idea! Except it won't work, you'll be completely out of MP/TP because these moves consume a LOT of MP/TP. Overpower and flash are designed to only hold hate over the healers cures. If something else attacks it, they'll generate more hate and you will be ignored almost instantly.

Lets put some numbers on things. These numbers don't represent actual hate, but give you an idea.
Ranged attack: 100 hate
AoE Hate Move: 100 hate
Combo Move: 180 hate
Cure: 70 hate



I'm assuming you're against Overpower spamming on multiple targets because Heavy Swing >> Skull Sunder is like 300 dmg per combo compared to 120 per main target mob. Plus Skull Sunder has enmity on it too. Would you ever say there is an exception though? IE BLM spamming AoE nukes for whatever reason. Or you going to say that AoE Overpower is only for cure hate?

I'm just curious because I only tanked one dungeon so far. My MAR is lv17 I think and I was planning to level some more for abilities for main class.
#19 Oct 04 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
*
197 posts
supermegazeke wrote:

On another note, I hate sleep. For me, there is not one dungeon in the game I have come across that requires any of the mobs in the pull to be sleeped. As a WAR tank, it's annoying if a BLM tries to lay down a mass sleep before I can even fire off 1 OP, leading me to not care if I break your sleep spell you felt so inclined to cast before I can group everything up, in favor instead of getting full hate on everything. I do not mind sleep if it's timed correctly. I do use flash, but as a WAR, my MP pool is lacking to say the least. The way I look at premature sleeps, is that if you fire it off before I have a chance to get full hate on the whole pull, when the mobs wake, they are going to zerg for the rest of the party, and then all **** breaks loose. My job is to protect the party first and foremost. If at any time an enemy is asleep and not under my control, I have no problem hitting them with a tomahawk or OP to swing it my way. Obviously, if it's a fubar pull from the start, and the rest of the party feels in danger cause I'm having a hard time picking mobs up, feel free to sleep to save your own skin.


This is why I sleep every time you pull LOL, Cause I know you hate it!

For me tho, I feel like using CC is important even if it doesn't really matter, just cause it takes stress off the healer.

And I know when your tanking its not necessary, but in pugs where the tank/heals are not so great it becomes necessary and its helpful to me to just stay in the habit of doing it.

On a side note, I ran brayflox with a tank who just kept spinning the last boss in a circle cause it made it easier for him to dodge his breath attack leading to me and the healer getting one shotted a couple times....
____________________________
Character Name: Jeskradha Duskmantle
Free Company - The Kraken Club <ZAM>
Server: Ultros
#20 Oct 04 2013 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
*
81 posts
supermegazeke wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:

After getting PLD to 42 or so, I've never run a dungeon without marking what I'm currently focusing on. Takes less than a second since it's bound into one of my macros.


On PS3 I hit square on a target and select "Mark" then I can assign that mark to hotkey. I put 1, 2, and 3 up there. Thats all I need. I've got my gld to 22 now so it is a work in progress, but marking targets is important in any party setting.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 10:57am by Valkayree

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 10:57am by Valkayree


If I may, your system may work good, but a better way that I have found is to set all of the possible markings to one of your cross bar sets. Mine is set in the third set, so before a pull, I hit R1 twice to get to it, then just hit the corresponding buttons to mark highlighted targets. I used the same system you did too, until impatient Bards made me speed up my game a bit, and once you get used to it, it works pretty slick. Just trying to help. =)

On another note, I hate sleep. For me, there is not one dungeon in the game I have come across that requires any of the mobs in the pull to be sleeped. As a WAR tank, it's annoying if a BLM tries to lay down a mass sleep before I can even fire off 1 OP, leading me to not care if I break your sleep spell you felt so inclined to cast before I can group everything up, in favor instead of getting full hate on everything. I do not mind sleep if it's timed correctly. I do use flash, but as a WAR, my MP pool is lacking to say the least. The way I look at premature sleeps, is that if you fire it off before I have a chance to get full hate on the whole pull, when the mobs wake, they are going to zerg for the rest of the party, and then all **** breaks loose. My job is to protect the party first and foremost. If at any time an enemy is asleep and not under my control, I have no problem hitting them with a tomahawk or OP to swing it my way. Obviously, if it's a fubar pull from the start, and the rest of the party feels in danger cause I'm having a hard time picking mobs up, feel free to sleep to save your own skin.


Edited, Oct 4th 2013 1:02pm by supermegazeke


I don't know if I agree with the sleep part, and maybe I'm a bit biased having a 50 BLM and all. To me it seems to make everyone's job a bit easier if slept properly. I agree with the not opening a sleep on non-clustered mobs, but sleeping definitely seems to take pressure off both the tank and the healers. May not be necessary and I understand that. However, anything that can be done to make the run smoother I think should be utilized.

I can remember quite a few times running a dungeon and afterwords being thanked by both the tank and healer for sleeping mobs. Each tank may have different preferences and are certainly entitled to them. I just know if I can utilize sleep, part of my toolkit, for the betterment of the group then I'm going to.


Edited, Oct 4th 2013 2:03pm by Aquidar
#21 Oct 04 2013 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
425 posts
I thought about being a tank, but I'll settle with the occasional offtanking here and there on my MNK.
____________________________
FFXI character: Elathia ::F Tarutaru::87SCH/75RDM/70WHM/54BLM::Cerberus/Ragnarok/Bahamut::1/23/2004 - 3/25/2015 :: Retired
RDM First 75 Job :: RDM Maat victory: March 28, 2008 (1/3) :: San d'Oria R10 Long live King Destin :: Praise be to the late King Ranperre.
FFXIV character: Selene Silverstorm :: F Lalafell :: WAR60/WHM60/BLM60 :: Ragnarok :: 9/2013 -
Patch note archives for FFXIV: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/special/patchnote_log/
#22 Oct 04 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,178 posts
rfolkker wrote:
I personally am against marking, as marking requires 5 macros for mob switching, where /assist only requires 1.

But, the general public tends to favor marking for some sick twisted bizarre reason... So, I mark, and become incredibly frustrated as DDs still literally and figuratively miss the mark and attack the wrong mob, because they don't use /target <attack#> macros when switching mobs.


Assist is no good. The insane twisted reason that you speak of is that a good tank starts off a fight by placing his hate-generating-rotation on multiple targets. At a minimum the ones that are immune to sleep. /assist will have you jumping to the wrong target.

As Hitome stated, all that is needed for a majority of encounters is to mark #1 on the primary target. 2 and 3 are optional, although helpful so you don't have to wait to see what will be the next primary target.

Tab > Mark 1 > Tab > Mark 2 > Tab > Mark 3 - takes less then two seconds for most encounters just nearest to furthest, and from there on the fight is easy, and the DDs don't miss the mark.

For those who have played both DD and Tank this just becomes easy, easy, easy.

I'll say it again, if your Tank doesn't know how to mark, go ahead and do it for him. Chances are he doesn't know what mobs are immune to sleep anyway. Every time I mark as DD, the Tank has followed my lead and is generally thankfully for the help.

#23 Oct 04 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
424 posts
Jeskradha wrote:
supermegazeke wrote:

On another note, I hate sleep. For me, there is not one dungeon in the game I have come across that requires any of the mobs in the pull to be sleeped. As a WAR tank, it's annoying if a BLM tries to lay down a mass sleep before I can even fire off 1 OP, leading me to not care if I break your sleep spell you felt so inclined to cast before I can group everything up, in favor instead of getting full hate on everything. I do not mind sleep if it's timed correctly. I do use flash, but as a WAR, my MP pool is lacking to say the least. The way I look at premature sleeps, is that if you fire it off before I have a chance to get full hate on the whole pull, when the mobs wake, they are going to zerg for the rest of the party, and then all **** breaks loose. My job is to protect the party first and foremost. If at any time an enemy is asleep and not under my control, I have no problem hitting them with a tomahawk or OP to swing it my way. Obviously, if it's a fubar pull from the start, and the rest of the party feels in danger cause I'm having a hard time picking mobs up, feel free to sleep to save your own skin.


This is why I sleep every time you pull LOL, Cause I know you hate it!

For me tho, I feel like using CC is important even if it doesn't really matter, just cause it takes stress off the healer.

And I know when your tanking its not necessary, but in pugs where the tank/heals are not so great it becomes necessary and its helpful to me to just stay in the habit of doing it.



At least you're good at it, and at least give me a little bit of time to get everything lined up before you put mobs down. Most of the time, BLM's are casting sleep as I'm chucking tomahawk across the screen. I can understand that to certain to certain degree, if they have had bad tanks, they are only trying to protect themselves from bad play. One thing to keep in mind with sleep though as well, is that every party does not have access to sleep, in that not every party has the right classes to wield it. With that said, all the time I have played is spent learning how to work without it being the norm, and the time spent having people sleep mobs being the abnormal.

Quote:
The groups of preists in AK should be slept and the sleepers can be slept to make it easier.

And I do throw the markings onto my main crossbar set for now. I dont even have to hit R1. Im sure that will change as I level the gld higher and have access to more abilities.


The summoners can also be stunned, which is usually the route I take. =)

When I first started marking, I had just the 1 mark set on my main crossbar, but as the game progresses, you are right in assuming you get way to many skills to take up any of your crucial crossbar spaces with marks. I have most of the main skills in the 1st set, and some CD's and other less important skills in set 2, with the marks filling set 3. I have the game set to change to the 1st set when in combat, so once I'm done marking, I hit X twice to unsheathe my weapon, switching back to the combat set. One problem I had once I had to start using multiple sets, is that I would be on the wrong set when i would go to tomahawk, and would instead pop my sprint ability which is lame in the middle of a dungeon to have to tell your group "Hold on I'm out of TP." 1 thing to keep in mind also, is that macros are your best friend in saving some space on your crossbar with your instant cast defense CD's. Instead of having 6 buttons taken up with just them alone, I split them into 2 macro sets, each with 3 skills in each, and only taking up 2 buttons on my main crossbar set.


Edited, Oct 4th 2013 2:26pm by supermegazeke
____________________________
MJK wrote:
Is this a test?
It has to be. Otherwise I can't go on.
Draining patience. drain vitality.
this paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old.

[Charlie Towser-The Kraken Club-Ultros[NA]-WAR]
#24 Oct 04 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
**
448 posts
Marking targets really should be a prerequisite for tanking. **** I would just like 1 mark out of three on the pull just to know instead of clicking the target then target of target then back. Bind the target 1 sign to your ranged pull and do that if you don't have enough buttons to bind stuff to.

On packs of three, I mark 2 targets and go with that. During boss fights that need adds burned down, tabtarget the adds and mark them then go back to getting pounded by the boss, unless you have awesome dps who discuss marking those (big ups to those people!).
____________________________
"We're getting close, real close. And now for some more bad news... Ready?"
-- Egg Shen
#25 Oct 04 2013 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
***
2,214 posts
My number one problem with marking (and I do find it interesting I down voted on that), is that marking serves 2 purposes, it appears people may only be aware of 1.

Marking is a visual sign as to key targets (e.g. a lot of mages I pt with mark sleep targets).

The second purpose (and the reason you should have 5 macros) is that it also serves as an auto-target.
/target <attack1> will allow you to immediately switch to/target the mob with the Attack 1 mark.
/target <attack2> will allow you to immediately switch to/target the mob with the Attack 2 mark.

There are 5 attack markings, therefore 5 macros. DDs should be using this if marking is used to verify they are attacking the correct mobs (and tanks can do the same to switch up mobs as they are chewing through the mobs).

As for the /assist. If you tanking, and targeting more than one mob in the first 3 seconds of combat, you will not maintain hate. Considering at low levels you can only do 2-3 moves in the first 3 seconds of combat, and if everyone is fighting the same mob, you don't need to spread the love. At high levels (I can speak for Pld, not War), a Pld can only use 5 abilities in the first 3 seconds(Two weaponskills, Provoke... Why I have no idea, Sword of scorn, and Spirits Within). However, doing that, you blow all of your timers in 3 seconds, have have nothing left incase something does actually go wrong...

I have yet to find a single situation where I needed to divert my attention to another mob unless a DD was attacking a mob other than the primary target.

Though, I have, in parties where my mp drains, or I am fighting more than one tough mob, I will do my first two weaponskills on one mob, then target and use the last on another. But, in doing so, I never switch my primary target, so /assist would be unaffected, if someone for some strange reason decided to do a /assist on me at that exact moment in time.
#26 Oct 04 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
***
3,178 posts
Quote:
Enmity vs. Provoke: Not the Same Thing

The Gladiator level 22 ability, Provoke causes some confusion. This ability is available to both the GLA/PAL and MRD/WAR and reads, “Gesture Threateningly, increasing enmity in target.” This sure sounds like it’s an enmity builder, but it isn’t.

Think of party enmity as a line, with each party member standing in the spot of the line corresponding to their current enmity level. Provoke is your “cut to the front of the line” ability. It doesn’t so much generate enmity as it does give you +1 over whomever has the most enmity. This is great if you have fallen way behind in enmity or if you need to “snap aggro” something back to you.

Provoke is wasted on targets for which you already have enmity. If you are already in the front of the line, all you did was +1 yourself and start a 40-second cooldown on the Provoke ability.

I use Provoke under a couple of circumstances:
I think it will take more than one enmity cycle to take over enmity on the target
The target is attacking a teammate far away from me
The target is in danger of immediately killing a teammate
The facing/positioning of the target needs to be changed or multiple party members will be at risk


Quote:

http://eorzeareborn.com/tanking-basics-control/

Enmity Combos are your single target enmity maneuver. For the Gladiator, this is your Fast Blade (1) – Savage Blade (4) – Rage of Halone (26) combination. For the Marauder, this is your Heavy Swing (1) – Skull Sunder (4) – Butcher’s Block (30) combination. In each case, the number in parenthesis is the level at which you acquire the ability.

Marauders, in particular, have a harder time with sleep management as their primary multi-target enmity creator also causes damage (and breaks sleep). We find that a Conjurer has a nice little one-two here to help out. A conjurer can use Fluid Aura to knock back a target and then have the target mezzed using Sleep or Repose. In this way, the Marauder can use Overpower at will on active creatures without breaking mez. Remember, though, that the MRD isn’t building enmity on the slept creature during this process and he or she may need to do some enmity catch-up when the mez is finally broken or expires.


#27 Oct 04 2013 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
Jeskradha wrote:
supermegazeke wrote:

On another note, I hate sleep. For me, there is not one dungeon in the game I have come across that requires any of the mobs in the pull to be sleeped. As a WAR tank, it's annoying if a BLM tries to lay down a mass sleep before I can even fire off 1 OP, leading me to not care if I break your sleep spell you felt so inclined to cast before I can group everything up, in favor instead of getting full hate on everything. I do not mind sleep if it's timed correctly. I do use flash, but as a WAR, my MP pool is lacking to say the least. The way I look at premature sleeps, is that if you fire it off before I have a chance to get full hate on the whole pull, when the mobs wake, they are going to zerg for the rest of the party, and then all **** breaks loose. My job is to protect the party first and foremost. If at any time an enemy is asleep and not under my control, I have no problem hitting them with a tomahawk or OP to swing it my way. Obviously, if it's a fubar pull from the start, and the rest of the party feels in danger cause I'm having a hard time picking mobs up, feel free to sleep to save your own skin.


This is why I sleep every time you pull LOL, Cause I know you hate it!

For me tho, I feel like using CC is important even if it doesn't really matter, just cause it takes stress off the healer.

And I know when your tanking its not necessary, but in pugs where the tank/heals are not so great it becomes necessary and its helpful to me to just stay in the habit of doing it.

On a side note, I ran brayflox with a tank who just kept spinning the last boss in a circle cause it made it easier for him to dodge his breath attack leading to me and the healer getting one shotted a couple times....


That brayflox story is unfortunate... With sleep, ideally, the blm should wait until the tank gets the first flash off and then cast the aoe sleep, with the target on 1. Then if others need to be slept because they were out of range, get to those second. The reason I start the sleep target on 1 (the one the tank is attacking) is because I know that the aoe sleep is going to hit everything, I know that the #1 target will be woken up immediately, and if I am already targeting it I can follow up with my dps rotation.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 2:13pm by Valkayree
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#28 Oct 04 2013 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
44 posts
rfolkker wrote:
There are 5 attack markings, therefore 5 macros

One macro:

/target attack5
/target attack4
/target attack3
/target attack2
/target attack1

Leaves the lowest-numbered enemy targeted.
____________________________
Cross-Class Skill Sheet
Kawaii rate me down
#29 Oct 04 2013 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
***
2,214 posts
cartec wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
There are 5 attack markings, therefore 5 macros

One macro:

/target attack5
/target attack4
/target attack3
/target attack2
/target attack1

Leaves the lowest-numbered enemy targeted.

Nice, simple, and effective:). Doesn't work for tanking (as I typically switch targets before the last one is dead), but definitely effective.
#30 Oct 04 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,426 posts
Kordain wrote:
One thing I find as a tank that is never written down in guides.

In nearly every case, you are the leader. Whether you like that position or not. People in the group will look to you for direction, you'll control the pace of progress. More than likely you'll shoulder the blame if things go badly. It's a strange thing to observe if you've any passing interest in psychology. A good tank can use this to leverage more out of a group than it is currently giving. Just little lines like "Man, we were so close! This time lets really chase those cooldowns!" or "You're going a great job Dragoon. If you could just give me an extra second before you go mad I'll be able to keep up with your insane aggro". Very cheesy I know, but kind words in an assumed position of power is a very effective way of getting even pants-on-heads and instant-flamers to do what you want them to.


Well said. This is basically what i was arguing in a thread a couple weeks back where someone was trying to tell me that tanking is not in fact more responsibility and hence more "effort" than DPSing. You worded it a lot better than i did.
____________________________
monk
dragoon

#31 Oct 04 2013 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
*
197 posts
Jeskradha wrote:

On a side note, I ran brayflox with a tank who just kept spinning the last boss in a circle cause it made it easier for him to dodge his breath attack leading to me and the healer getting one shotted a couple times....


Valkayree wrote:
That brayflox story is unfortunate...


He wouldn't stop doing it either, after like 4 wipes I ended up just leaving.

I have been running brayflox a lot trying to get the battlecaster robes, lately I've just been queuing to join a group in progress hoping to skip some of the trash at the beginning, the flip side to that is you get into a lot of groups were someone doesn't know what they are doing. Usually I just suggest they go read up on their class and then drop group.

It works both ways tho, I've actually had a lot of fun helping a tank who doesn't know the fight get through it, and there is a lot of satisfaction having a group tell you thanks about 100 times for being helpful, I cant wait for the MVP system they are going to implement in 2.1.
____________________________
Character Name: Jeskradha Duskmantle
Free Company - The Kraken Club <ZAM>
Server: Ultros
#32 Oct 04 2013 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,151 posts
Gnu wrote:
Tab > Mark 1 > Tab > Mark 2 > Tab > Mark 3 - takes less then two seconds for most encounters just nearest to furthest, and from there on the fight is easy, and the DDs don't miss the mark.


I'm just curious... which one of those buttons you listed above gets your targets to line up in order of priority from left to right for you before you mark? Smiley: lol

I don't really care all that much for marking, but it's really only necessary on sleep/CC targets. Most everything else you just target the tank on pull, press T(target of target if you bound T to something else) then go into your normal rotation. By the time that's dead your tank should have built enough hate that it doesn't matter what you beat down next. If the mobs are actually dangerous, all you have to do is look at your screen really to tell what they've moved on to as a target.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#33 Oct 04 2013 at 2:32 PM Rating: Default
*
78 posts
I am a lvl 44 BLM. When I run dungeons the tank will normally pull the mobs towards him/her. I normally wait for all the mobs to gather together before casting sleep so I can make sure all of them are slept.

From your comment it seems like you would like me to wait a little longer before casting sleep. Is this correct? If so when would you suggest i cast? I ask because I have tanks hit the slept targets all the time, I will cast sleep again and the tank hits the targets again. All while the first target is still alive.

I never asked why they do this as I play on PS3 with no keyboard.

I have also noticed that if I do not sleep quickly the tank will be beat on by a mob of monsters and their HP will fall which means the healer will cast heal on the tank and pull hate.

#34 Oct 04 2013 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,178 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
...look at your screen really to tell what they've moved on to as a target.


So you just stand there doing nothing waiting for them to decide? Imagine if everyone had that idea.

I want to be casting on the next target the very second the current mobs dies, and to do that I (everyone) needs to know the next target before the last one dies.



Edited, Oct 4th 2013 5:03pm by Gnu
#35 Oct 04 2013 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,178 posts
cartec wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
There are 5 attack markings, therefore 5 macros

One macro:

/target attack5
/target attack4
/target attack3
/target attack2
/target attack1

Leaves the lowest-numbered enemy targeted.


Isn't this macro backwards?
#36 Oct 04 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
elrocco wrote:
I am a lvl 44 BLM. When I run dungeons the tank will normally pull the mobs towards him/her. I normally wait for all the mobs to gather together before casting sleep so I can make sure all of them are slept.

From your comment it seems like you would like me to wait a little longer before casting sleep. Is this correct? If so when would you suggest i cast? I ask because I have tanks hit the slept targets all the time, I will cast sleep again and the tank hits the targets again. All while the first target is still alive.

I never asked why they do this as I play on PS3 with no keyboard.

I have also noticed that if I do not sleep quickly the tank will be beat on by a mob of monsters and their HP will fall which means the healer will cast heal on the tank and pull hate.



I hold 2 to 3 seconds after the tank first attacks before I sleep the group.
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#37 Oct 04 2013 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
*
197 posts
Gnu wrote:

I want to be casting on the next target the very second the current mobs dies, and to do that I (everyone) needs to know the next target before the last one dies.



Same for me also, It just makes things sooo much easier for everyone if there is a kill order, I play a BLM and if the target we're on is at less the 10%, I'll switch to the next target, cast thunder on that target, and then move back to the first one, That way I'm not wasting a Dot on a target that's about to die. The same thing goes if I don't think I'm going to get a cast off in time before the current target dies.

Also it just helps the DD focus on a target, nothing is more annoying to me then having DPS all over the place so it takes a mob twice as long to die cause everyone isn't focusing the same target.

Just makes sense to me that if there is something you can do to make the run go smoother all around, why you wouldn't utilize it.
____________________________
Character Name: Jeskradha Duskmantle
Free Company - The Kraken Club <ZAM>
Server: Ultros
#38 Oct 04 2013 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
***
1,606 posts
Flash doesn't wake targets does it? I could swear that I have been in plenty of fights where one of the targets was slept and I would use flash and it didn't wake them up since it didn't do damage. Over power sure as **** does but it is a damaging attack so I would imagine it would wake stuff up lol.
#39 Oct 04 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
*
66 posts
Gnu wrote:
cartec wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
There are 5 attack markings, therefore 5 macros

One macro:

/target attack5
/target attack4
/target attack3
/target attack2
/target attack1

Leaves the lowest-numbered enemy targeted.


Isn't this macro backwards?



That is what I was thinking, but how I think this works is it targets 5 first then switches to 4, 3, 2, 1... if 1 is dead then it stays on 2, if 1 and 2 are dead then it stays on 3, etc.
____________________________
"On a mountain of skulls in a castle of pain, I sat on a throne of blood. What was will be, what is will be no more. Now is the season of evil!"
~Vigo the Carpathian
#40 Oct 04 2013 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
**
576 posts
Azoria wrote:
Gnu wrote:
cartec wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
There are 5 attack markings, therefore 5 macros

One macro:

/target attack5
/target attack4
/target attack3
/target attack2
/target attack1

Leaves the lowest-numbered enemy targeted.


Isn't this macro backwards?



That is what I was thinking, but how I think this works is it targets 5 first then switches to 4, 3, 2, 1... if 1 is dead then it stays on 2, if 1 and 2 are dead then it stays on 3, etc.


Pretty much this.

The lowest marked mob is targeted last, and thus always has priority.
____________________________
FFXI, Siren: Pickins BST99.:~:.BLM75.:~:.RDM56
FFXIV, Siren: Miss Pickins - Builder of the Realm
#41 Oct 04 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
***
3,450 posts
MrTalos wrote:
Flash doesn't wake targets does it? I could swear that I have been in plenty of fights where one of the targets was slept and I would use flash and it didn't wake them up since it didn't do damage. Over power sure as **** does but it is a damaging attack so I would imagine it would wake stuff up lol.


Probably they just woke up on their own.

Only direct damage will wake a sleeping target. Damage over time effects? Nope. Status effects? Nope. Punching it in the face, absolutely.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#42 Oct 04 2013 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
***
3,178 posts
Jeskradha wrote:
...I'll switch to the next target, cast thunder on that target, and then move back to the first one, That way I'm not wasting a Dot on a target that's about to die. The same thing goes if I don't think I'm going to get a cast off in time before the current target dies.

Also it just helps the DD focus on a target, nothing is more annoying to me then having DPS all over the place so it takes a mob twice as long to die cause everyone isn't focusing the same target.

Just makes sense to me that if there is something you can do to make the run go smoother all around, why you wouldn't utilize it.


Bingo. All of these points are exactly spot on.
#43 Oct 04 2013 at 5:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
2,426 posts
Gnu wrote:
Jeskradha wrote:
...I'll switch to the next target, cast thunder on that target, and then move back to the first one, That way I'm not wasting a Dot on a target that's about to die. The same thing goes if I don't think I'm going to get a cast off in time before the current target dies.

Also it just helps the DD focus on a target, nothing is more annoying to me then having DPS all over the place so it takes a mob twice as long to die cause everyone isn't focusing the same target.

Just makes sense to me that if there is something you can do to make the run go smoother all around, why you wouldn't utilize it.


Bingo. All of these points are exactly spot on.


I honestly think people who espouse the notion that "marking isn't necessary"* are 1) missing the point** and 2) trying to (inexplicably) make themselves sound more pro




*of course its not necessary, neither is min-maxing your gear, derp

**the point is getting everyone in the group to be on the same page
____________________________
monk
dragoon

#44 Oct 04 2013 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
8,779 posts
All I'll say to this is that they really need to make Guildhests more prominent. I'd say require the first two at least, before allowing access to Satasha and a continuance of the story line. Implement something that makes it so during particularly slow times you don't wait for an hour as a new player (i.e. you get in with AI players who perform the specified roles).

Cause that's basically what Guildhests do....train you in the various aspects of dungeoning (on top of the Class quests, which do a wonderful job of fleshing out the various facets of a given class).
____________________________
Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#45 Oct 04 2013 at 6:30 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
**
424 posts
elrocco wrote:
I am a lvl 44 BLM. When I run dungeons the tank will normally pull the mobs towards him/her. I normally wait for all the mobs to gather together before casting sleep so I can make sure all of them are slept.

From your comment it seems like you would like me to wait a little longer before casting sleep. Is this correct? If so when would you suggest i cast? I ask because I have tanks hit the slept targets all the time, I will cast sleep again and the tank hits the targets again. All while the first target is still alive.

I never asked why they do this as I play on PS3 with no keyboard.

I have also noticed that if I do not sleep quickly the tank will be beat on by a mob of monsters and their HP will fall which means the healer will cast heal on the tank and pull hate.



First off, please buy a keyboard, they are inexpensive. =)

And really, you don't have to be casting anything for the first few moments of a fight. It really is common courtesy in my opinion to let everything get settled before you start wailing away on any of your skills. Once a tank hits with shield lob/tomahawk, he has to wait at least 2.5 seconds before he can get off another attack, whether it be an OP or a Flash. If you cast anything at all in that amount of time, there is a chance that the enemies not hit by the initial pull will head straight for you. In your case, you're a BLM, so I'm assuming you're back a ways from the tanks desired tanking spot, so now he has to make haste to run over to you to pull those mobs, lest they kill you. For the most part, up to the point I am in the game, there are only a handful of pulls that really put me on me heals in terms how much damage I was taking compared to how much the healer was healing for. I don't play a BLM at all, so I really have no room for suggestions, but at least wait until the tank has used a couple skills before touching any buttons. This obviously changes with every party that you come across, as some do worse/better then others, and you will have to adapt accordingly.

Seriously though, keyboards are like 7 dollars some places. Pick one up, you will be doing yourself, and others that play with you a kindness. =)

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 8:31pm by supermegazeke
____________________________
MJK wrote:
Is this a test?
It has to be. Otherwise I can't go on.
Draining patience. drain vitality.
this paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old.

[Charlie Towser-The Kraken Club-Ultros[NA]-WAR]
#46 Oct 04 2013 at 11:55 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,151 posts
Gnu wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
...look at your screen really to tell what they've moved on to as a target.


So you just stand there doing nothing waiting for them to decide? Imagine if everyone had that idea.

I want to be casting on the next target the very second the current mobs dies, and to do that I (everyone) needs to know the next target before the last one dies.


It's really not that important that you cast a spell or ability immediately. In fact, if you take a few seconds for the tank to switch targets(if they haven't already moved to the next mob like they should have), it gives them time to establish aggro. If they aren't marking mobs on the fly it's in your best interest to do that anyway.

Personally when I tank, I mark two mobs tops before a pull; the cc target(if necessary) and the primary damage target. Well before the primary target is dead I've already marked and moved on to the next kill target. All my party needs to do when the first mob dies is simply hit the function key to select me, press t to switch to my target and continue their rotation. Quick and easy with only two keystrokes and no macro setup.

I guess it's a matter of personal preference, but marking everything just clutters the screen for me. In all honesty, marking isn't really even necessary beyond selecting a target for cc.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#47 Oct 05 2013 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*
72 posts
What scews my hate management the most is that pt member who does nothing but aoe a pack of mobs over and over. I mark targets and tell group to focus fire in order marked. To get full aggro I pull, flash, then begin rotating ws between them, but before I can get that sequence off someone starts aoe spam and the secondary and tertiary mobs peel off. Single target dots are fine...on the primary marked target. Aoe spam just slows down the effectiveness and negates the point of marking/focus fire. Yes, I get aggro back, but it makes me look like im ******** up while I frantically provoke/shield lob the aoe'd ones that peel off.
#48 Oct 05 2013 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
424 posts
SistinasAria wrote:
What scews my hate management the most is that pt member who does nothing but aoe a pack of mobs over and over. I mark targets and tell group to focus fire in order marked. To get full aggro I pull, flash, then begin rotating ws between them, but before I can get that sequence off someone starts aoe spam and the secondary and tertiary mobs peel off. Single target dots are fine...on the primary marked target. Aoe spam just slows down the effectiveness and negates the point of marking/focus fire. Yes, I get aggro back, but it makes me look like im ******** up while I frantically provoke/shield lob the aoe'd ones that peel off.



Try hitting Flash multiple times at the start of the fight. If a party is not going along with your play style, you need to adapt accordingly to the situation. If you know you have someone in your party that actively uses Aoe's to bring targets down, then it's your job to make sure that he doesn't pull hate from you regardless of how you feel your rotation should run in that situation. 100% of the time, a DD is going to be doing way more damage then you are, and it's your job to make sure he can do that effectively, and at all times. A run I had at AK not to long ago had me tanking for a much better geared summoner and bard then I have ever been partied with. Although I would have liked to use the same rotation I used in Brayflox to get through the dungeon, there was just no logical way that can happen. Resorting to a much different and aggressive use of OP and Flash was the only way I could prevail in keeping mobs off anyone but me. You do what you gotta do, and sticking to methods like they are the absolute may get you into more trouble than if you learn to adapt to each given situation.

Edited, Oct 5th 2013 10:08pm by supermegazeke
____________________________
MJK wrote:
Is this a test?
It has to be. Otherwise I can't go on.
Draining patience. drain vitality.
this paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old.

[Charlie Towser-The Kraken Club-Ultros[NA]-WAR]
#49 Oct 07 2013 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,447 posts
I've tanked through Cutter's Cry with a BLM in static and I'm on WAR...

We've started using sleep as a more prominent tool lately as the mob pulls get more complicated and tougher, but the one thing I ask her to do is not just wait 2-3 seconds to sleep, but give me closer to 7-8. My pull is almost always Tomahawk, then 2-3 Overpowers followed by a Flash. After my last overpower I tell her "ok to sleep" and know I have to stick to Flash for AoE hate. Before we started communicating like this, I'd always wake up her slept mobs as she'd wait that 2-3 seconds but I was still in my initial hate cycle.

Sleep is great, but know your tank and talk to them to understand how they like to work their hate cycle.

EDIT: Oh and since people were discussing...I always mark my mobs, except the last one usually. 4 mobs in pull...1, 2 and 3 are marked. I like to think the last one is obvious ;)

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 10:36am by dawgdchi
____________________________
FFXIV - V'aala Ichi - Balmung (Co-Founder of mIsFiTs LS and FC)
FFXI - Vaala - Fairy -> Sylph - Co-Founder of mIsFiTs (Fairy) and member of Zombie (Sylph)
#50 Oct 07 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,178 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Gnu wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
...look at your screen really to tell what they've moved on to as a target.


So you just stand there doing nothing waiting for them to decide? Imagine if everyone had that idea.

I want to be casting on the next target the very second the current mobs dies, and to do that I (everyone) needs to know the next target before the last one dies.


It's really not that important that you cast a spell or ability immediately. In fact, if you take a few seconds for the tank to switch targets(if they haven't already moved to the next mob like they should have), it gives them time to establish aggro. If they aren't marking mobs on the fly it's in your best interest to do that anyway.

Personally when I tank, I mark two mobs tops before a pull; the cc target(if necessary) and the primary damage target. Well before the primary target is dead I've already marked and moved on to the next kill target. All my party needs to do when the first mob dies is simply hit the function key to select me, press t to switch to my target and continue their rotation. Quick and easy with only two keystrokes and no macro setup.

I guess it's a matter of personal preference, but marking everything just clutters the screen for me. In all honesty, marking isn't really even necessary beyond selecting a target for cc.


Marking actually provides yet another thing you can click on for targeting. You can click the mark itself. Pretty handy since it is up and out of the mess.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 1:13pm by Gnu
#51 Oct 07 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
2,448 posts
I'd also like to chime in and touch on the point again about being the leader. You control the pace and the movement of the group. You are the foundation. It is crucial that the other pieces of the foundation know what is going on via communication. Just like in real combat with silent hand signals, if you aren't going to talk you need to use marking so everyone knows what you are attacking. This is the only foolproof way to ensure you communicate what needs to die first. This is the core of teamwork on the battlefield, foolproof communications that are KISS. Such as counting.

Tl:dr this whole thread: Use marking and do whatever you can to figure out a button or macro combination to make it work for you, even if you only use #1 and put it on the target you currently want dead. And make sure the others are following it! YOU ARE THE LEADER. THE PROTECTOR. YOU WILL DRAG THEM TO GLORY WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.
____________________________
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
Lacaan Vasiim:Cactuar
Free Company:Cactuar Corp<CCorp>
catwho wrote:
If you need a bard to get "good exp" in a merit party, you're the weakest link.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 80 All times are in CST
Callinon, Lyrailis, Thayos, Anonymous Guests (77)