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alternative to the MVP systemFollow

#1 Oct 04 2013 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
41 posts
like many of you, i dont really think the mvp system is going to be a good thing. i think it will add to elitism and i dont see any reason why players would MVP anyone but the tank/heals. so dps are kinda screwed. of course i have no idea what will happen but this is how i feel it might play out :)

maybe a better idea would be to create a kind of 2nd blacklist that is cross-server. if you end up using the duty finder and group with someone who is terrible, rude, abusive, etc. you can add this player to your personal blacklist and the duty finder will never group you guys together again. i dont like the idea of 'punishing' people ever, but unfortunately the alternative can be easily abused or unbalanced. if you had a personal blacklist of people you dont want to PUG with, it wouldn't affect anyone else but yourself and that other player you dont really care for.

what do you guys think :)
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#2 Oct 05 2013 at 4:21 AM Rating: Excellent
4,503 posts
I dont see why you think there is such an outrage for rewarding the tank and or healer.

Lets face it, first of all, they're the guys that always seem to take the blame for anything, if it was their fault or not. I got my PLD to 50, i loved it at first. Then the more dungeons i did, the more depressed i got over it with DD's AoE'ing everything full-out from the start, dying over it and blaming me for not being able to keep hate off their spam on 4 monsters at the same time (despite clearly marking them). I cant imagine i'm the only guy who left his PLD to FC-only stuff and went to level Bard to get his tomes.

Secondly, this would pretty much put a stop to bad tanks and bad healers, since they can see it as an incentive to do their best regardless of it all. Instead of just going along with whatever the group decides.

Lastly, what makes you think people arent just going to use this fairly? If a DD contributed massively to a dungeon and pretty much carried your group through single-handedly, what makes you think they wont get voted MVP? Same for a healer tossing out that last second cure at the right time preventing a wipe, what's to say that person doesnt actually deserve it? Or how about just a helpful individual that didnt cuss at how horrible the group is every 5 seconds without actually leaving?

Seems to me any job or role or person can get MVP. It just means they have to try. I know for DPS-classes it's a little diffirent from the normally so relaxing DD part of standing around spamming 1-2-3, but i feel it will just work out fine.

I dont see the controversity or outrage over it, infact, i pretty much welcome such an incentive to make parties a little nicer and kinder.
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#3 Oct 05 2013 at 5:52 AM Rating: Good
4,135 posts
I almost made a poll about which game XIV would borrow from next. LoL wouldn't have even made my list, but low and behold... anyway

I don't see where elitism would come into play with this system. I don't play LoL all that much, but I don't ever recall anyone bragging on their 'helpful' ribbons for the same system in that game. All I see being an issue is point trading between friends to get bonuses faster. There might be an adventurer worthy of a heroic cookie that gets snubbed because 3 friends all grouped up with the intention of voting for each other regardless of how well anyone performs.
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#4 Oct 05 2013 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
1,163 posts
I love the idea. Simply put, most people will want to get MVP so they will act accordingly. On to of that, if the gear/rewards that re exclusive to the MVP system are any good, that's another reason.

Let me just throw this out there too. Yes, Tank and Healer will mostly be an in for MVP, however, DPS and CC are just as important. Grabbing an add-on just before it kills a mage, grabbing hate from a mob that is sure to kill the tank or make things hard. Making a boss fight run smoothly. A new player following directions and playing the perfect role, all things that ANY person in the party can do and that list is huge. What about an easy, fast, dungeon run and the person is just a genuine person to party with?

Just because you healed the party or made the win possible for winning because you were the tank doesn't mean you HAVE to be MVP. There is more to it than that.

It can be abused, yes, but there are plenty of reasons that it doesn't have to be.
#5 Oct 05 2013 at 6:06 AM Rating: Excellent
149 posts
It's not like you're stuck playing DD if you're currently DD. You have plenty of time and ability to roll a tank or healer to get the same rewards yourself, even if they were exclusive to tanks and healers.
#6 Oct 05 2013 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
Why would only tanks and healers win?

Every time I do a dungeon, everyone else in the group has the chance to be helpful. Kindly tell me the right way to tank something I've never tanked before. Encourage conversation to keep the mood light. Offer words of encouragement to the healer, or positive criticism about how one's gear could be better (without being a prick about it).

Anyone with a good attitude can win this award. It's not all about Xs and Os.

For that matter, who's to say that an awesomely geared DD who does amazeballs damage isn't as impressive as a good tank?
Thayos Redblade
#7 Oct 05 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
5,745 posts
chillpickle wrote:
like many of you, i dont really think the mvp system is going to be a good thing. i think it will add to elitism and i dont see any reason why players would MVP anyone but the tank/heals. so dps are kinda screwed. of course i have no idea what will happen but this is how i feel it might play out :)

I think it's going to play out more like the karma system here on Zam. Sometimes, it's the helpful guy that gets the votes. Sometimes, it's the funny guy that gets the votes. Once in a while, you might get a particularly sociopathic group where one guy is a particularly aggressive troll and two others think it's funny enough to reward that behavior.

Basically, people are going to reward behavior that they want to see more of. If that behavior is "level a tank to reduce seek time for DDs", then maybe tanks will get lots of votes. And I'm fine with that. If lower seek times isn't enough to get more people to level a tank job, then I'm fine with more community driven rewards being given out to encourage people to play as tanks.
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#8 Oct 05 2013 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
41 posts
wow haha well i guess i was wrong about the general consensus regarding mvp :)


my intention with this thread was simply to propose an alternative :) of course id rather have something like mvp versus nothing at all. i understand and appreciate its potential incentive for other players to perform well, because there really isnt much now except not getting yelled at. but i think mvp and its black and white nature (you get mvp or you dont get mvp, and only one person can get it) is prone to imbalances. after this has been around for a while and everyone has some sort of mvp rating, its going to just be a number that says the player is either a good player or a bad player. and what if the player is new and isnt necessarily a bad player? will there be anything telling people 'hey this guy is new so thats why he doesnt have any mvp rating'?

also im not sure where the idea came in that i was saying DD shouldn't be given an mvp vote :( that kinda hurt my feelings and you guys made me crySmiley: frown joke joke but srsly i was talking about how i think mvp will play out based on a lot of simple-minded players out there who might only notice players who save their lives, like the healer. a lot of people are self centered when it comes to partying ("oh wow i almost died that one time and the healer healed me so that healer is really great and everyone else is just doing their job") and dont take the whole partying experience into account. im sure we've all come across players like that :)

of course you and me & everyone posting here are more experienced and will take into account everyone's role in the group. but do you think we are the majority? Smiley: smile

i also feel some players will be more biased to give an mvp to someone who already has a high mvp rating. again, im not talking about you or me, but players who dont really pay attention or know who 'deserve' the mvp award because they dont know much about party mechanics. they might think 'oh well, ugh i dont even know what was going on that whole time... um i guess ill give it to this guy cause everyone else thinks he's good'. what do you think about this? :)

yes ideally everyone could with this award. and they should, regardless of their role, if they are a great player. im not criticizing the system itself, but simply how i personally think it will play out based on what i've seen in other MMOs. or maybe in my personal experiences i havent seen to many positive, healthy, fair communities MMOs so im just being pessimistic. but that wasn't my intention!!! Smiley: smile i was really just trying to propose an alternative and i guess the criticism of mvp overshadowed my idea. im more interested in why you guys think the mvp system would be better than what i explained (or propose other creative alternatives yourself!) , rather than why im simply 'wrong' :) im trying to promote some creative thoughts on the issue, not argue why i think MVP sucks. cause i dont think it sucks, i just dont think its the best :)

i guess i wasn't very clear in my thread. oh well :)

Gutsy Bat / Balmung :)
#9 Oct 05 2013 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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21,262 posts
Of the two people I'd like to go back and retroactively award MVP, one was definitely a DPS. We had a newbie tank who had no idea how to handle Sastasha. The DPS, who also had a 32 PLD, took the newbie under her wing and gave him instructions on how to do his job in a party, instead of ******** at him. That simple action turned a lame tank into a pretty good tank by the time we left, and I think the newbie was in better shape for Tam-Tara after that.

Anyone has the opportunity to be awesome. If a DPS is the last one standing after a rough fight and manages to get everyone the win, that DPS will get the prize. Simple as that.
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#10 Oct 05 2013 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
41 posts
Catwho wrote:

Anyone has the opportunity to be awesome. If a DPS is the last one standing after a rough fight and manages to get everyone the win, that DPS will get the prize. Simple as that.

yes!! excellent example, if seen this happen many times :) :)

Edited, Oct 5th 2013 6:35pm by chillpickle
Gutsy Bat / Balmung :)
#11 Oct 06 2013 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
27 posts
Anything that gives me some type of incentive to be more competitive, especially in something I've ran over 90 times, is good for me.
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