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#1 Oct 07 2013 at 2:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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and ya, I just beat Brayflox's Longstop. It went rough, we were lucky to win. I think it went rough because I'm a ****** tank somehow. Even staying out of red aoe, I was just getting freakishly pounded for what I see as pretty big numbers, like 500 hp. My poor healer ran out of mp a lot.

I'm a MRD, I have all crafted level 32 hq armor I made myself. I suspect I may have had a rough time because I forgot to equip this warrior job crystal I just got a little while back before entering duty finder. It only gives me one new ability at this point and I lose most of my cross class stuff, but I got a feeling I'll me saying goodbye to my MRD from here on out in favor of WAR.

Keeping hate doesn't seem to be a big issue.... I'm just getting soooooo badly owned I hardly feel like I should be tanking.
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#2 Oct 07 2013 at 2:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, if you are in a party you should have equipped the WAR stone. You'd have received a huge HP boost, plus the first WAR ability boosts it again by 25%, as well as the amount of HP healed from magic, it would also have increased your emnity.

Grats on the win though!
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#3 Oct 07 2013 at 3:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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What I like about XIV is something I haven't seen in MMOs in a very long time, and that's an actual legitimate level of difficulty to the game, once you get past a certain point. I just downed HM Titan for the first time the other day, and I don't think I've been this proud of an accomplishment since 25 man Grobbulus in WoW. That guy is a check on everyone, not just the DDs. In an MMO environment that caters to the casual, it's fights like HM Titan that separate the noobs from the rest. If you haven't learned how to move, you won't get anywhere in this game. XI's LB5 was a huge noob wall, back in the early days. LB5, like HM Titan, was a check on individual performance.
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#4 Oct 07 2013 at 3:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Nice work on the win, Brayflox is one of the first true steps up in difficulty.

And yes, after 30 there's not really a good reason to use your class over your job.
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#5 Oct 07 2013 at 3:21 AM Rating: Good
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HM Titan that separate the noobs from the rest.


ya I feel like I'm going to probably embarrass myself on the NORMAL titan fight coming up if I don't change something about my tanking now since Brayflox's was such a close one. Might practice on some previously completed dungeons.

unrelated side question - if I'm getting capped in a dungeon or w/e, is it better to let my current high level gear be capped or hold on to some of my old stuff for rerunning old instances?
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#6 Oct 07 2013 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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I've never swapped into lower level gear for a capped dungeon, but I haven't done the math on it though. With how the gear stats basically step in a bit every few levels, I'd bet it's pretty much a wash for you if you keep old gear. I'd think it'd be annoying more than anything. I've never had any issue with higher gear scaling down using the high quality eyeball test, but my healers don't complain, so meh...

As far as tanking...get that WAR stone on and have Defiance up 100%. You'll see a difference right there. I'm not 50 or a numbers guru, I just know what works through my static (up through Cutter's Cry at 38). Simply having a defensive ability up such as Foresight or Bloodbath (I consider this defensive as you're able to heal back some instead of just having it nullified) will help out. I activate Foresight right before a pull and Convalescence and if Foresight isn't up, use Bloodbath. Something for the initial part of the fight to help the healer works wonders.

As far as the pull itself, making sure all DPS are on the same page for what mob to attack (mark mobs!) and you being able to swap mobs quickly once the current one is down (I swap to next mob about 10-15% left) allows them to move through a bit quicker. Popping an offensive ability like Berserk or Internal Release (again I cycle them) to help with dropping the first mob helps.

I always target quicker kill mobs first. I've always been of the mindset that the more mobs you have hitting you, the worse it is. So how you mark mobs matters as well. The only caveat to that is if you have mobs with AoE or Conical attacks, I put priority on those over ones that just attack.

Hope this helps at all, feel free to ask any questions. Again, not an expert and many likely will disagree with me...this just has worked for me and my WHM likes this approach, so hopefully at least some of it is right ;)
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#7 Oct 07 2013 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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garethrogue wrote:
What I like about XIV is something I haven't seen in MMOs in a very long time, and that's an actual legitimate level of difficulty to the game, once you get past a certain point. I just downed HM Titan for the first time the other day, and I don't think I've been this proud of an accomplishment since 25 man Grobbulus in WoW. That guy is a check on everyone, not just the DDs. In an MMO environment that caters to the casual, it's fights like HM Titan that separate the noobs from the rest. If you haven't learned how to move, you won't get anywhere in this game. XI's LB5 was a huge noob wall, back in the early days. LB5, like HM Titan, was a check on individual performance.


Oh yeah, I went to titan like "Garuda is easy how hard can titan be?". Well, he made me eat my words a dozen times but, we finally endured and we got our relic weapons, we all cheered in voice chat when we finally got him.
#8 Oct 07 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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My group going through XI had a very fortunate run of being able to clear pretty much any story mission the first try (even Promy before they got nerfed). We had some really rough fights so much was incredibly lucky, but still we worked well as a team and were prepared.

We're 0/2 on Sunken Temple and it kicked us in the ***, took our names, and was ready the second time we went. And we can't wait to get another crack at it. Was a big wakeup call based on how we've done in the past :)

Completely agree on that difficulty. It feels like it's doable, but you really have to be on your game, which I love.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 11:10am by dawgdchi
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#9 Oct 07 2013 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
Yeah, if you are in a party you should have equipped the WAR stone. You'd have received a huge HP boost, plus the first WAR ability boosts it again by 25%, as well as the amount of HP healed from magic, it would also have increased your emnity.

Grats on the win though!


Do you get a boost is hp or stats when you equip a job stone?
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#10 Oct 07 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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You do get stat boosts, not sure if they are the same for every job though.
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#11 Oct 07 2013 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Good to know, guess ill be unlocking Paladin tonight!

Edit: until now i thought job stones didn give you any boosts, so i just been doing everything with my gladiator and all the sweet cross class skills i use to help me tank, didn feel sword oath and cover are that great for tanking over my pug, lancer and archer skills, had no problem with brayfox or titan as a gladiator. I was waiting to level 40 to unlock paladin shield oath looks great, but since it gives a stat boost ill just unlock it already.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 1:13pm by IMFW
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#12 Oct 07 2013 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I just like the idea that somewhere, on another forum, a guy who plays healer is posting about this marauder in a brayflox run that almost died because he didn't equip his **** job stone. grats on win.
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#13 Oct 07 2013 at 10:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Heh I had a run like that this weekend, I've been farming BL for the Battlemage stuff. My group was pretty good throughout the run, but we had some bad luck on the final fight and I ended up having to raise both the tank and the BLM mid fight. Glad I kept some Hi Ethers on hand, we did manage to win but it was a LOT of work compared to other runs I've done.
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#14 Oct 07 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just like the idea that somewhere, on another forum, a guy who plays healer is posting about this marauder in a brayflox run that almost died because he didn't equip his **** job stone.


That healer guy was actually my brother..... and he didn't have stone either, he went conjurer instead of whm. Went in.... my bro asks on skype "wtf is a bard?" We had two pick up bards with us.... then it dawned on us both, we were still class, not job. So a gimped MRD , CNJ and two awesome DDs must have got us through it.

I just wonder what those brds were thinking when they saw us show up as class with no job stone. No complaints from them though.... must be because they been waiting on df for hours, where me tank and my bro healer can get instant access. I actually feel kinda bad, since those DDs carried us. Whoever you are BRDs.... thanks for putting up with us. I'll be better for the next one, and equip my shiny new job stone.

I'll miss being a MRD though argggh! I always thought it was a cooler concept since 1.0 and a welcome change from the "classic" WAR. Permanently putting away my class doesn't feel good to me.

Perhaps CLASS specific equipment and abilities would be a good idea for a future update to make players debate rolling class vs job. It would almost double player diversity and party setups endgame as well as spawn interesting arguments.
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#15 Oct 07 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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klooste8 wrote:
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I'll miss being a MRD though argggh! I always thought it was a cooler concept since 1.0 and a welcome change from the "classic" WAR. Permanently putting away my class doesn't feel good to me.

Perhaps CLASS specific equipment and abilities would be a good idea for a future update to make players debate rolling class vs job. It would almost double player diversity and party setups endgame as well as spawn interesting arguments.


agree that it would be good to see incentive to use classes, or even an instance where you lose the use of your job stone, kind of like pathos in XI salvage
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#16 Oct 07 2013 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Warrior specific, you mean like this? http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Category:Warrior_Exclusive
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#17 Oct 07 2013 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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no sir, CLASS specific, not job specific. Stuff only a MRD can use. Pugilist specific, Lancer, Conjerer ect. I know there's job stuff
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#18 Oct 07 2013 at 8:05 PM Rating: Default
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Right, but you realize the point is... that you leave behind your class >.> right?
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#19 Oct 07 2013 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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um... yeah shoulda used the stone. defiance brother.... defiance learn its ways
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#20 Oct 08 2013 at 5:46 AM Rating: Good
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Right, but you realize the point is... that you leave behind your class >.> right?

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um... yeah shoulda used the stone. defiance brother.... defiance learn its ways


I realize both these things..... I just forgot to put stone on. My POINT is that in some FUTURE update they should maybe start including perks for making the choice to stay as CLASS vs job. I know it's pointless to stay class instead of job AT THE MOMENT. It would diversify things a lot more and face players with difficult debatable choices if you gave CLASSES something that a job would lack instead of putting your class into undeniable permanent retirement at level 30.

Would it not be interesting if you had the option to lose your current job abilities.... but goin back to the past.... you could get NEW abilities and equips at the cost of taking off that job crystal? I'm talking really complex sh*t here that would prettymuch double current party setup possibilities. I could go on and on if anyone gives a ****.

Edited, Oct 8th 2013 7:56am by klooste8
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#21 Oct 09 2013 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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i understood what you meant, and agree.
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#22 Oct 10 2013 at 3:58 AM Rating: Good
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I have a few votes for Class specific additions! yay.

And thanks to everyone who posted advice. Rest assured if you see me in duty finder, me and my brother will have job crystals equipped until classes get something more.

However, if that's not going to happen, why not just automatically "promote" people to job after hitting 30/15? Right now it's like there's a check box in the menu asking "would you like to suck more? yes { } no{ } It is what I call "a false choice." There is apparently currently very little point to even having the option to stay class (which I mistakenly went to duty finder as).

From the website "Classes are suited to those who desire versatility, as they allow the use of actions that belong to other disciplines. In contrast, jobs grant access to exclusive actions and are ideal for situations that demand well-defined roles. Which fighting style you adopt is entirely up to you."

My complaint is, don't make it sound like I have a decision to make when it is pretty **** clear that jobs > classes. It might confuse new players.

Might have went better saying "Classes are suited to those who want to suck more, as they gimp your stats and allow the use of slightly useful actions you might not have enough mp to use because they belong to other disciplines. In contrast , jobs grant access to exclusive actions that kick way more *** than using skills from other disciplines and are ideal for any situation that requires you to be more functional. Which fighting style you adopt is pretty **** obvious.... put your stone on noob.

Sometimes I am bad at explaining my ideas. I apologize if I confused anyone.
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#23 Oct 10 2013 at 4:02 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd like to see an achievement for an all class primal fight. Like you get an achievement for beating Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan while everyone as their base class only.
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#24 Oct 10 2013 at 5:46 AM Rating: Good
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For what it's worth, Mrd can do some beastly damage at 50 with the right cross class skills.

Internal Release from Pug.
Blood for Blood from Lnc.
Raging Strikes from Arc.

All combo'd with Berserk and the 20% more damage from Maim and -10% SR from Storm's Eye means you can put out a crapton of hurt over the course of ~20s, or else stagger them across a fight for a larger sustained gain in damage. I mean, Maim + RS alone puts you at +40% damage. That's pretty nuts.

But if you're going to be tanking, you want to be a warrior.
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#25 Oct 10 2013 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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For what it's worth, Mrd can do some beastly damage at 50 with the right cross class skills.

Internal Release from Pug.
Blood for Blood from Lnc.
Raging Strikes from Arc.

All combo'd with Berserk and the 20% more damage from Maim and -10% SR from Storm's Eye means you can put out a crapton of hurt over the course of ~20s, or else stagger them across a fight for a larger sustained gain in damage. I mean, Maim + RS alone puts you at +40% damage. That's pretty nuts.

But if you're going to be tanking, you want to be a warrior.


that's all well and awesome. add in some DD gear and materia, and you are the DD MRD. If you stretch it enough, and level enough other classes to get those skills.... I guess MRD can DD. But still, it's impossible to get in any kind of dungeon or fight AS a DD MRD since you'll be pigeonholed into tank status by duty finder.

Likewise, you could cross class a bunch of defensive abilities as a Pugilist and sort of tank. Going back to ff11, I've had some epic DDs even healers makeshift tank when the main tank dies or simply have no tanks available. Especially the monks.

Got me thinking, 8 man event where half are job and half are class. Just using MRD and WAR as an example. Since 2 tanks are required for the fight, one could go WAR traditionally, the other DD MRD. That way, depending on how well the WAR is doing, the DD MRD could be a backup tank if the WAR screws up, or provide decent DD if he doesn't.

It sucks that dungeons and instances REQUIRE instead of suggesting party setups. It might solve the DD duty finder problem if they let some DDs class up, do less damage but be able to provide makeshift support.

Make a little checkboxes in duty finder that says something like "i want the recommended party setup" and "I don't care if my setup isn't perfect EFF IT~! I'll take my chances." It would make a lot of epic fails, but maybe a few rewarding unconventional wins for people determined to beat the odds.

Stuff like this would let players make the decision to include a MRD who is a slightly gimped DD, but still enough tank to provide "insurance" when **** hits the fan.

However, ideas like mine are potentially dangerous, as it might spawn a slew of generic, "do all" players that can do everything, but not that good.



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#26 Oct 10 2013 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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klooste8 wrote:

It sucks that dungeons and instances REQUIRE instead of suggesting party setups. It might solve the DD duty finder problem if they let some DDs class up, do less damage but be able to provide makeshift support.


This is what pre-formed parties are for. Go grab some friends and experiment! Smiley: smile
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