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#1 Oct 07 2013 at 6:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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http://imgur.com/ZFoP48s

This has been reported on Reddit today and I noticed the JP server list couldn't be loaded this morning (6AM EU time - I like to do the supply run missions before work) and a couple of hours later the NA/EU servers were reported as being down, not sure if it was to fix this, but that seems to be what people are thinking.

Mental. O.o
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#2 Oct 07 2013 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Woah! Calling that a hack or an exploit is a BIG understatement! Anyone dumb enough to take advantage of such a hack (or ANY hack) deserves to be permabanned immediately. It is simply mind-boggling that anyone could be dumb enough to use it.
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#3 Oct 07 2013 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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It's crazy isn't it? A lot of people on the two Reddit threads are saying they got kicked from their servers around the same time earlier today, but I see nothing on the Lodestone about this (so I'm a bit more skeptical now). I wonder how vulnerable the game code is in light of this, could it get worse over time?
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#4 Oct 07 2013 at 7:00 AM Rating: Default
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Well with how quickly movement and teleport hacks came to this game, it seems there's far too much trust in the client right now, and this hack is also exactly that. It does not bode well, that's for sure, but we can only wait and see.
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#5 Oct 07 2013 at 7:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Looks like RMT have been busy this time around finding ways to exploit the game by reprogramming the game code.
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#6 Oct 07 2013 at 7:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow... I dont have any other words for this...

I can understand this is how they're level 50'ing everything. And that their offer to "PL from 1 to 50" is basicly them hacking the game in this fashion.

But what i dont understand is, why do it in such a public space where EVERYONE can see?

They must be really intelligent to pull off such an exploit and spoofing the server into thinking they're leveling up. But at the same time so incredibly dumb to just let everyone see. It just doesnt add up.
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#7 Oct 07 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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That's pretty amazing. I'm curious as to how they did it. Not to do it myself but it's kinda like... wanting to know how a magic trick was done. Doesn't mean you're going to up and become a magician the next day. Clever bastards.
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#8 Oct 07 2013 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Wouldn't surprise me if this has been happening for a while and its just now that someone messed up and started the wrong script. From the chat log, it looks like it took less than 30 seconds to happen (esp. the "WTF" comment), so the damage would have already been done even if they had a way to stop it.

As for how it was done, it was most likely some kind of data spoofing. It isn't surprising that this could happen, as the only way to have completely sterile communication between the client program (what you play) and the servers is to have the client be a game steaming service, which would be an infrastructure nightmare to manage for an MMO.
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#9elevens, Posted: Oct 07 2013 at 7:56 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So another 2 years until ffxiv 3.0? To me this would justify a full wipe because I have seen many people doing this. I really wish SE could just do things right I was enjoying this game but not going to pay them for this kind of product.
#10 Oct 07 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Wow... I dont have any other words for this...

I can understand this is how they're level 50'ing everything. And that their offer to "PL from 1 to 50" is basicly them hacking the game in this fashion.

But what i dont understand is, why do it in such a public space where EVERYONE can see?

They must be really intelligent to pull off such an exploit and spoofing the server into thinking they're leveling up. But at the same time so incredibly dumb to just let everyone see. It just doesnt add up.


One of the smarter design decisions SE made this go round was disallowing anyone to craft in the the inn room. So while there are certainly quieter places to craft, there are no private spaces.
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#11 Oct 07 2013 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wow, that's.... wow.

I knew the client had issues, but ****, that's more than an issue.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#12 Oct 07 2013 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
One of the smarter design decisions SE made this go round was disallowing anyone to craft in the the inn room. So while there are certainly quieter places to craft, there are no private spaces.

Perhaps Housing? :p
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#13 Oct 07 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I assume that the person was actually crafting during this?

I'm trying to figure out if they just set the recipe to max exp, or if they just changed the value of exp on their character directly.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 12:25pm by Pawkeshup
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#14 Oct 07 2013 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Brings new meaning to Triple leve turn ins!
#15 Oct 07 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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At least getting all the achievements for leveling one craft from 20 to 50 in under a minute is a dead giveaway you've been hacking. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 12:20pm by Xoie
#16 Oct 07 2013 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Obviously this character will get the banhammer, but how long will they have it before that happens? Hopefully they are relatively quick with the hammer, otherwise they'd have to then track down all the accounts this one trades with and investigate if they are RMT or not.

edit:

Oooo ooo new theory: What if they somehow broke the Quality bar. Like, made it infinite, then filled it. It would give a boundless % of bonus EXP capable of leveling in one synth.

Edit 2:

Not trying to figure out to exploit it, trying to sort out how they are doing this to know what else they could break.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 12:30pm by Pawkeshup
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#17 Oct 07 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Obviously this character will get the banhammer, but how long will they have it before that happens? Hopefully they are relatively quick with the hammer, otherwise they'd have to then track down all the accounts this one trades with and investigate if they are RMT or not.

edit:

Oooo ooo new theory: What if they somehow broke the Quality bar. Like, made it infinite, then filled it. It would give a boundless % of bonus EXP capable of leveling in one synth.

Edit 2:

Not trying to figure out to exploit it, trying to sort out how they are doing this to know what else they could break.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 12:30pm by Pawkeshup



My guess is they made it so that one craft gave all the exp needed to get to 50. hi2u game genie!
#18 Oct 07 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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He almost instantly got "On the payroll III" and "On the payroll IV", meaning that between those two achievements, he instantly made 100k+ worth of gil, by doing nothing.

So not only is this a leveling exploit, it's a MAJOR gil exploit as well.
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#19 Oct 07 2013 at 10:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wonder how long it will take them to roll that back. Or ban. I suppose they would just ban.
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#20 Oct 07 2013 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Sad really.. People will do anything to cheat and it just runes the game for others.
Now SE has to spend time tracking this exploit down instead of developing new cool things to do for us....
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#21 Oct 07 2013 at 11:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hmmm...how about instead of slapping them with a ban, add a big ole' permanent, unavoidable 'CHEATER' to the start of their name? There would be no way to get rid of it, not even a name change. And how about an inventory space of, say, 5 or less, and no more than 100 gil at a time? And if they go over 100 gil, it restarts at 0? And then a day or a week later, banning them anyway?

In all honesty and seriousness, I think this player and any who does something so extreme should be permabanned immediately. It'd be neat to see their reaction to something like this, though.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 1:04pm by Vaaniks
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#22 Oct 07 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Looks like a simple memory edit.. like someone above said, Game Genie ahoy.

Though the fact the guy went from 20 to 50 suggests that levequests or at least the turn in may have something to do with it.

I hope it's not that simple, because that's just lazy programming if so.
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#23 Oct 07 2013 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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I still say make a server for just these special people, lock their characters there, and make them think they are still working on selling gil... except only the gilsellers/cheaters are stuck there.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#24 Oct 07 2013 at 11:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nashred wrote:
Sad really.. People will do anything to cheat and it just runes the game for others.
Now SE has to spend time tracking this exploit down instead of developing new cool things to do for us....


I'm hoping they can do both simultaneously Smiley: grin

The employees who are responsible for creating new content hopefully aren't the same ones who track down RMT and cheaters.
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#25 Oct 07 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
I still say make a server for just these special people, lock their characters there, and make them think they are still working on selling gil... except only the gilsellers/cheaters are stuck there.


That's like purgatory for RMT's! Sweet let's do it!
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#26 Oct 07 2013 at 11:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Looks like a simple memory edit.. like someone above said, Game Genie ahoy.

Though the fact the guy went from 20 to 50 suggests that levequests or at least the turn in may have something to do with it.

I hope it's not that simple, because that's just lazy programming if so.


This was my thought as well. There is no way the server should be trusting the client with information on leve rewards or xp gain. That's just poor design.

I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, though, and assume that the exploit was more complex than telling the server "I'm turning in this leve" x number of times in a row.
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#27 Oct 07 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Few things:

1) It involves leves hence on the pay roll
2) going payroll 2 to pay roll 3 = gaining 90k gil
3) Going payroll 3 to payroll 4 = gaining 900k gil

Being as he gained 3 levels and 90k between payroll 2 and 3, he would have had to have gained 1.6million exp, thus gaining levels 20-35, not 20-23.

Then again from 23-34 he gained 900k gil, which would require enough exp to level 3 crafters 1-50 and only gained 11 levels.

They are using leves, but this HAS to be a memory editor/exploit involved to modify the gil/exp reward, otherwise the exp would line up better. Which would also explain how they got all those levels from basically 1 hand in since it takes longer than a minute to run back grand another and hand it in.

This also means this another form of gil duping/hacking so watch out for trying to reproduce this as it is 100000% garunteed to get you banned, and your gil removed.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 1:20pm by dustinfoley
#28 Oct 07 2013 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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So then they trade the gil to another character? The old shell game to try and hide the gil?

Can this be tracked?

Bah. Hope this is fixed. I spent all weekend harvesting next to those stupid teleport bots. Ugh, what a mess.
#29 Oct 07 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Pickins wrote:
This was my thought as well. There is no way the server should be trusting the client with information on leve rewards or xp gain. That's just poor design.

I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, though, and assume that the exploit was more complex than telling the server "I'm turning in this leve" x number of times in a row.


Hmm, I don't know if that should make me feel better or worse... I'd almost want it to be an in-client hack because correction of it would be relatively easy, just put a check on the server to ensure the reported % of EXP gain is not over what can possibly be done. An exploit of the leve turn-ins sounds... somehow worse.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#30 Oct 07 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
So then they trade the gil to another character? The old shell game to try and hide the gil?

Can this be tracked?

Bah. Hope this is fixed. I spent all weekend harvesting next to those stupid teleport bots. Ugh, what a mess.


Really not much of a shell game. The game sees all. Data moves it gets recorded somewhere. If they passed that gil off 100s of times it might take them a while to track the trail down but if it's only once or twice removed from the person that did the hacking given a minute it's easily found.
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#31 Oct 07 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Default
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Im guessing another round of ol' gil confiscation incoming
#32dustinfoley, Posted: Oct 07 2013 at 12:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Followed by another round of 'innocent people' getting their gil removed just because 'they did leves the fair way'.
#33 Oct 07 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
I still say make a server for just these special people, lock their characters there, and make them think they are still working on selling gil... except only the gilsellers/cheaters are stuck there.


I love this idea. It would just be hilarious.
#34 Oct 07 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Im guessing another round of ol' gil confiscation incoming


Followed by ye ol' "oh you have 50 carp. Ban" eh?

What really worries me is the ease that it's being done. If SE lets this get out of control, then RMT will flood the game and 2.0 will die quicker than 1.0 did.
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#35 Oct 07 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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And preceded, then followed, by the wastes of space that cackle at the misery of others who get screwed despite following the rules.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#36 Oct 07 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Default
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Ya know, something just crossed my mind. A way to stop it all kinda. Instead of taking everyone's gil away. Give everyone 100M. I'm no economics type person, but I do know if the streets where littered with Diamonds they'd lose their worth. I'm sure these would just make everyone raise prices on the MW BUT wouldn't it still make gil less valuable if everything else (vender) stuff stays the same?

From my POV I have 500k ish gil and I dont spend it on anything other then repairs and teleporting.
#37 Oct 07 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Default
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nonameoflevi wrote:
Ya know, something just crossed my mind. A way to stop it all kinda. Instead of taking everyone's gil away. Give everyone 100M. I'm no economics type person, but I do know if the streets where littered with Diamonds they'd lose their worth. I'm sure these would just make everyone raise prices on the MW BUT wouldn't it still make gil less valuable if everything else (vender) stuff stays the same?

From my POV I have 500k ish gil and I dont spend it on anything other then repairs and teleporting.


I remember making a suggestion in a thread once, but if they did a barter and trade economy system it'll end RMT.. be cause there's no in game money. Say you want a stack of something at an NPC trader. The game could read your inventory and select something of equal worth to give as payment. Or tell you to go collect something that the NPC wants. Kinda like a quest.

Same can be done for player to player transactions.. list something in the market boards you have and select what you want for it.
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#38 Oct 07 2013 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Magilicotti wrote:
nonameoflevi wrote:
Ya know, something just crossed my mind. A way to stop it all kinda. Instead of taking everyone's gil away. Give everyone 100M. I'm no economics type person, but I do know if the streets where littered with Diamonds they'd lose their worth. I'm sure these would just make everyone raise prices on the MW BUT wouldn't it still make gil less valuable if everything else (vender) stuff stays the same?

From my POV I have 500k ish gil and I dont spend it on anything other then repairs and teleporting.


I remember making a suggestion in a thread once, but if they did a barter and trade economy system it'll end RMT.. be cause there's no in game money. Say you want a stack of something at an NPC trader. The game could read your inventory and select something of equal worth to give as payment. Or tell you to go collect something that the NPC wants. Kinda like a quest.

Same can be done for player to player transactions.. list something in the market boards you have and select what you want for it.


In 1.0, you could place things in your bazaar and instead of gil payment, you could list an item.
#39 Oct 07 2013 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Magilicotti wrote:
I remember making a suggestion in a thread once, but if they did a barter and trade economy system it'll end RMT.. be cause there's no in game money.

RMTs don't exist because in-game currency exists. RMTs exist because there are objectives in this game that require time and effort to obtain, and RMTs offer a way to achieve those objectives with real money instead of time and effort. You can't get rid of RMT without getting rid of objectives that require time and effort.
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#40 Oct 07 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Magilicotti wrote:
nonameoflevi wrote:
Ya know, something just crossed my mind. A way to stop it all kinda. Instead of taking everyone's gil away. Give everyone 100M. I'm no economics type person, but I do know if the streets where littered with Diamonds they'd lose their worth. I'm sure these would just make everyone raise prices on the MW BUT wouldn't it still make gil less valuable if everything else (vender) stuff stays the same?

From my POV I have 500k ish gil and I dont spend it on anything other then repairs and teleporting.


I remember making a suggestion in a thread once, but if they did a barter and trade economy system it'll end RMT.. be cause there's no in game money. Say you want a stack of something at an NPC trader. The game could read your inventory and select something of equal worth to give as payment. Or tell you to go collect something that the NPC wants. Kinda like a quest.

Same can be done for player to player transactions.. list something in the market boards you have and select what you want for it.


Diablo 2 operated very similarly to that. All that happened was that accepted values were assigned to items and then those values were used for trade instead.

Currency is a medium for barter. Just because your currency is called something else doesn't mean that isn't what it is. Barter systems are not immune to tampering or inflation.

Quote:
You can't get rid of RMT without getting rid of objectives that require time and effort


Exactly this.
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#41 Oct 07 2013 at 2:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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#42 Oct 07 2013 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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Magilicotti wrote:
nonameoflevi wrote:
Ya know, something just crossed my mind. A way to stop it all kinda. Instead of taking everyone's gil away. Give everyone 100M. I'm no economics type person, but I do know if the streets where littered with Diamonds they'd lose their worth. I'm sure these would just make everyone raise prices on the MW BUT wouldn't it still make gil less valuable if everything else (vender) stuff stays the same?

From my POV I have 500k ish gil and I dont spend it on anything other then repairs and teleporting.


I remember making a suggestion in a thread once, but if they did a barter and trade economy system it'll end RMT.. be cause there's no in game money. Say you want a stack of something at an NPC trader. The game could read your inventory and select something of equal worth to give as payment. Or tell you to go collect something that the NPC wants. Kinda like a quest.

Same can be done for player to player transactions.. list something in the market boards you have and select what you want for it.

PSO(including PSU. PSO2 has the auction system) was A LOT like that.
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#43 Oct 07 2013 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
I still say make a server for just these special people, lock their characters there, and make them think they are still working on selling gil... except only the gilsellers/cheaters are stuck there.


I love this idea. It would just be hilarious.


Could make something of a 'Scared Straight' program out of it too. Send griefers and wrist slap offenders to that server for a day or two as punishment.

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#44 Oct 07 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
I still say make a server for just these special people, lock their characters there, and make them think they are still working on selling gil... except only the gilsellers/cheaters are stuck there.


I love this idea. It would just be hilarious.


Could make something of a 'Scared Straight' program out of it too. Send griefers and wrist slap offenders to that server for a day or two as punishment.

"This could happen to you!"


I got an image in my head of 100 RMTs standing around an aetheyr spamming each other.
#45 Oct 07 2013 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I got an image in my head of 100 RMTs standing around an aetheyr spamming each other.


That doesn't sound like "Scared straight" so much as "pure bliss" for them.... hundreds of targets that never blacklist them. It's spambot heaven.
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#46 Oct 07 2013 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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Wow, I logged off sunday feelling used after it took me almost 3 hours to figure out the lv 50 botanist quest without a guide. You have to wait in Coerthas from dawn to dusk with Truth of forest on then the tree pops the next day for awhile, you have to find it. There was always people standing near the lone tree doing nothing. The last two out of the four times i found the tree I used the skill to make all the choices be known not only did people near the tree started chopping at least five warped in from nowhere and went at it. They was all gone before I finished my hits. I didn't know I got the item the third time and got hit by the same group the fourth time. The game says Spruce is the rarest wood there is but stacks of 99 sell at retainer boards. It's sad if SE don't know about this.
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#47 Oct 07 2013 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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Warmech wrote:
Wow, I logged off sunday feelling used after it took me almost 3 hours to figure out the lv 50 botanist quest without a guide. You have to wait in Coerthas from dawn to dusk with Truth of forest on then the tree pops the next day for awhile, you have to find it. There was always people standing near the lone tree doing nothing. The last two out of the four times i found the tree I used the skill to make all the choices be known not only did people near the tree started chopping at least five warped in from nowhere and went at it. They was all gone before I finished my hits. I didn't know I got the item the third time and got hit by the same group the fourth time. The game says Spruce is the rarest wood there is but stacks of 99 sell at retainer boards. It's sad if SE don't know about this.


It'd be difficult to imagine that SE doesn't know about it. They may not know what to do about it right now though.

And the longer it goes on, the worse that sentence gets.
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#48 Oct 07 2013 at 6:21 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Warmech wrote:
Wow, I logged off sunday feelling used after it took me almost 3 hours to figure out the lv 50 botanist quest without a guide. You have to wait in Coerthas from dawn to dusk with Truth of forest on then the tree pops the next day for awhile, you have to find it. There was always people standing near the lone tree doing nothing. The last two out of the four times i found the tree I used the skill to make all the choices be known not only did people near the tree started chopping at least five warped in from nowhere and went at it. They was all gone before I finished my hits. I didn't know I got the item the third time and got hit by the same group the fourth time. The game says Spruce is the rarest wood there is but stacks of 99 sell at retainer boards. It's sad if SE don't know about this.


It'd be difficult to imagine that SE doesn't know about it. They may not know what to do about it right now though.

And the longer it goes on, the worse that sentence gets.


I did my bit to help SE out by doing some digging and sending the STF details on the author of a bot , their webpage, facebook page (how colossally dumb would you have to be to like a public Failbook page of a bot? twitter account etc.) I don't doubt others had already done so, and no doubt they already had the bot and were working on reverse engineering it, but it made me feel good to at least do something.

Originally I sent the info to support, but they emailed me back and said to send it straight to the STF.

The bot in question is in fact 3 different bots, one auto attacks, one crafts (HQ too would you believe it) and one is our friend the teleporting gathering bot. Hopefully yhey will be able to set up a signature server side to spot the telltales and hammer the gits.
#49 Oct 07 2013 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
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Warmech wrote:
Wow, I logged off sunday feelling used after it took me almost 3 hours to figure out the lv 50 botanist quest without a guide. You have to wait in Coerthas from dawn to dusk with Truth of forest on then the tree pops the next day for awhile, you have to find it. There was always people standing near the lone tree doing nothing. The last two out of the four times i found the tree I used the skill to make all the choices be known not only did people near the tree started chopping at least five warped in from nowhere and went at it. They was all gone before I finished my hits. I didn't know I got the item the third time and got hit by the same group the fourth time. The game says Spruce is the rarest wood there is but stacks of 99 sell at retainer boards. It's sad if SE don't know about this.


I assume you felt used from the people who 'warped in', but the spawn location of the unspoiled are very exact and I don't find it strange that there are already people lying in wait in that location (and sometimes if you notice some of them don't start gathering). I spent good 2 hours on Sunday logging/mining cluster on the side while fishing to 50 and I can tell there are pretty much only 3 or so spots for logging and 3 for mining that spawn at the exact in-game hour. That and saving GP to use +2 per gather skill instead of Toil can net you 15 x of Spruce Log per spawn, and if you are quick you can get it quick enough you can get all 3 spots you can get 45 Log an in-game day. I know there are a lot of teleport bots but a normal dedicated player can still get a lot of those 'rare' material.

If you look at XIV App it has an alert function that will alert you if you input the in-game time (I assume) and you can guess pretty much those waiting people are probably multi-boxers who put alert on so they don't miss out their next gathering chance.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 11:31pm by Khornette
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#50 Oct 07 2013 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Is there a website that lists the times/areas?
#51 Oct 07 2013 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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I remember disciplesoftheland does.

Just in case someone doesn't know, you can have Truth of the Forest/Mountain on on any DoL. Fishing for lvl 50 in Coerthas and I got >200 clusters in that time span.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 11:39pm by Khornette
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