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#27 Oct 07 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Few things:

1) It involves leves hence on the pay roll
2) going payroll 2 to pay roll 3 = gaining 90k gil
3) Going payroll 3 to payroll 4 = gaining 900k gil

Being as he gained 3 levels and 90k between payroll 2 and 3, he would have had to have gained 1.6million exp, thus gaining levels 20-35, not 20-23.

Then again from 23-34 he gained 900k gil, which would require enough exp to level 3 crafters 1-50 and only gained 11 levels.

They are using leves, but this HAS to be a memory editor/exploit involved to modify the gil/exp reward, otherwise the exp would line up better. Which would also explain how they got all those levels from basically 1 hand in since it takes longer than a minute to run back grand another and hand it in.

This also means this another form of gil duping/hacking so watch out for trying to reproduce this as it is 100000% garunteed to get you banned, and your gil removed.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 1:20pm by dustinfoley
#28 Oct 07 2013 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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So then they trade the gil to another character? The old shell game to try and hide the gil?

Can this be tracked?

Bah. Hope this is fixed. I spent all weekend harvesting next to those stupid teleport bots. Ugh, what a mess.
#29 Oct 07 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Pickins wrote:
This was my thought as well. There is no way the server should be trusting the client with information on leve rewards or xp gain. That's just poor design.

I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, though, and assume that the exploit was more complex than telling the server "I'm turning in this leve" x number of times in a row.


Hmm, I don't know if that should make me feel better or worse... I'd almost want it to be an in-client hack because correction of it would be relatively easy, just put a check on the server to ensure the reported % of EXP gain is not over what can possibly be done. An exploit of the leve turn-ins sounds... somehow worse.
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#30 Oct 07 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
So then they trade the gil to another character? The old shell game to try and hide the gil?

Can this be tracked?

Bah. Hope this is fixed. I spent all weekend harvesting next to those stupid teleport bots. Ugh, what a mess.


Really not much of a shell game. The game sees all. Data moves it gets recorded somewhere. If they passed that gil off 100s of times it might take them a while to track the trail down but if it's only once or twice removed from the person that did the hacking given a minute it's easily found.
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#31 Oct 07 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Default
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Im guessing another round of ol' gil confiscation incoming
#32dustinfoley, Posted: Oct 07 2013 at 12:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Followed by another round of 'innocent people' getting their gil removed just because 'they did leves the fair way'.
#33 Oct 07 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
I still say make a server for just these special people, lock their characters there, and make them think they are still working on selling gil... except only the gilsellers/cheaters are stuck there.


I love this idea. It would just be hilarious.
#34 Oct 07 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Im guessing another round of ol' gil confiscation incoming


Followed by ye ol' "oh you have 50 carp. Ban" eh?

What really worries me is the ease that it's being done. If SE lets this get out of control, then RMT will flood the game and 2.0 will die quicker than 1.0 did.
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#35 Oct 07 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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And preceded, then followed, by the wastes of space that cackle at the misery of others who get screwed despite following the rules.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#36 Oct 07 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Default
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Ya know, something just crossed my mind. A way to stop it all kinda. Instead of taking everyone's gil away. Give everyone 100M. I'm no economics type person, but I do know if the streets where littered with Diamonds they'd lose their worth. I'm sure these would just make everyone raise prices on the MW BUT wouldn't it still make gil less valuable if everything else (vender) stuff stays the same?

From my POV I have 500k ish gil and I dont spend it on anything other then repairs and teleporting.
#37 Oct 07 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Default
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nonameoflevi wrote:
Ya know, something just crossed my mind. A way to stop it all kinda. Instead of taking everyone's gil away. Give everyone 100M. I'm no economics type person, but I do know if the streets where littered with Diamonds they'd lose their worth. I'm sure these would just make everyone raise prices on the MW BUT wouldn't it still make gil less valuable if everything else (vender) stuff stays the same?

From my POV I have 500k ish gil and I dont spend it on anything other then repairs and teleporting.


I remember making a suggestion in a thread once, but if they did a barter and trade economy system it'll end RMT.. be cause there's no in game money. Say you want a stack of something at an NPC trader. The game could read your inventory and select something of equal worth to give as payment. Or tell you to go collect something that the NPC wants. Kinda like a quest.

Same can be done for player to player transactions.. list something in the market boards you have and select what you want for it.
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#38 Oct 07 2013 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Magilicotti wrote:
nonameoflevi wrote:
Ya know, something just crossed my mind. A way to stop it all kinda. Instead of taking everyone's gil away. Give everyone 100M. I'm no economics type person, but I do know if the streets where littered with Diamonds they'd lose their worth. I'm sure these would just make everyone raise prices on the MW BUT wouldn't it still make gil less valuable if everything else (vender) stuff stays the same?

From my POV I have 500k ish gil and I dont spend it on anything other then repairs and teleporting.


I remember making a suggestion in a thread once, but if they did a barter and trade economy system it'll end RMT.. be cause there's no in game money. Say you want a stack of something at an NPC trader. The game could read your inventory and select something of equal worth to give as payment. Or tell you to go collect something that the NPC wants. Kinda like a quest.

Same can be done for player to player transactions.. list something in the market boards you have and select what you want for it.


In 1.0, you could place things in your bazaar and instead of gil payment, you could list an item.
#39 Oct 07 2013 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Magilicotti wrote:
I remember making a suggestion in a thread once, but if they did a barter and trade economy system it'll end RMT.. be cause there's no in game money.

RMTs don't exist because in-game currency exists. RMTs exist because there are objectives in this game that require time and effort to obtain, and RMTs offer a way to achieve those objectives with real money instead of time and effort. You can't get rid of RMT without getting rid of objectives that require time and effort.
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#40 Oct 07 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Magilicotti wrote:
nonameoflevi wrote:
Ya know, something just crossed my mind. A way to stop it all kinda. Instead of taking everyone's gil away. Give everyone 100M. I'm no economics type person, but I do know if the streets where littered with Diamonds they'd lose their worth. I'm sure these would just make everyone raise prices on the MW BUT wouldn't it still make gil less valuable if everything else (vender) stuff stays the same?

From my POV I have 500k ish gil and I dont spend it on anything other then repairs and teleporting.


I remember making a suggestion in a thread once, but if they did a barter and trade economy system it'll end RMT.. be cause there's no in game money. Say you want a stack of something at an NPC trader. The game could read your inventory and select something of equal worth to give as payment. Or tell you to go collect something that the NPC wants. Kinda like a quest.

Same can be done for player to player transactions.. list something in the market boards you have and select what you want for it.


Diablo 2 operated very similarly to that. All that happened was that accepted values were assigned to items and then those values were used for trade instead.

Currency is a medium for barter. Just because your currency is called something else doesn't mean that isn't what it is. Barter systems are not immune to tampering or inflation.

Quote:
You can't get rid of RMT without getting rid of objectives that require time and effort


Exactly this.
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#41 Oct 07 2013 at 2:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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10 SoJ! GoGO!
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#42 Oct 07 2013 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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Magilicotti wrote:
nonameoflevi wrote:
Ya know, something just crossed my mind. A way to stop it all kinda. Instead of taking everyone's gil away. Give everyone 100M. I'm no economics type person, but I do know if the streets where littered with Diamonds they'd lose their worth. I'm sure these would just make everyone raise prices on the MW BUT wouldn't it still make gil less valuable if everything else (vender) stuff stays the same?

From my POV I have 500k ish gil and I dont spend it on anything other then repairs and teleporting.


I remember making a suggestion in a thread once, but if they did a barter and trade economy system it'll end RMT.. be cause there's no in game money. Say you want a stack of something at an NPC trader. The game could read your inventory and select something of equal worth to give as payment. Or tell you to go collect something that the NPC wants. Kinda like a quest.

Same can be done for player to player transactions.. list something in the market boards you have and select what you want for it.

PSO(including PSU. PSO2 has the auction system) was A LOT like that.
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#43 Oct 07 2013 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
I still say make a server for just these special people, lock their characters there, and make them think they are still working on selling gil... except only the gilsellers/cheaters are stuck there.


I love this idea. It would just be hilarious.


Could make something of a 'Scared Straight' program out of it too. Send griefers and wrist slap offenders to that server for a day or two as punishment.

"This could happen to you!"
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#44 Oct 07 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
ShindaUsagi wrote:
SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
I still say make a server for just these special people, lock their characters there, and make them think they are still working on selling gil... except only the gilsellers/cheaters are stuck there.


I love this idea. It would just be hilarious.


Could make something of a 'Scared Straight' program out of it too. Send griefers and wrist slap offenders to that server for a day or two as punishment.

"This could happen to you!"


I got an image in my head of 100 RMTs standing around an aetheyr spamming each other.
#45 Oct 07 2013 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I got an image in my head of 100 RMTs standing around an aetheyr spamming each other.


That doesn't sound like "Scared straight" so much as "pure bliss" for them.... hundreds of targets that never blacklist them. It's spambot heaven.
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#46 Oct 07 2013 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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Wow, I logged off sunday feelling used after it took me almost 3 hours to figure out the lv 50 botanist quest without a guide. You have to wait in Coerthas from dawn to dusk with Truth of forest on then the tree pops the next day for awhile, you have to find it. There was always people standing near the lone tree doing nothing. The last two out of the four times i found the tree I used the skill to make all the choices be known not only did people near the tree started chopping at least five warped in from nowhere and went at it. They was all gone before I finished my hits. I didn't know I got the item the third time and got hit by the same group the fourth time. The game says Spruce is the rarest wood there is but stacks of 99 sell at retainer boards. It's sad if SE don't know about this.
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#47 Oct 07 2013 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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Warmech wrote:
Wow, I logged off sunday feelling used after it took me almost 3 hours to figure out the lv 50 botanist quest without a guide. You have to wait in Coerthas from dawn to dusk with Truth of forest on then the tree pops the next day for awhile, you have to find it. There was always people standing near the lone tree doing nothing. The last two out of the four times i found the tree I used the skill to make all the choices be known not only did people near the tree started chopping at least five warped in from nowhere and went at it. They was all gone before I finished my hits. I didn't know I got the item the third time and got hit by the same group the fourth time. The game says Spruce is the rarest wood there is but stacks of 99 sell at retainer boards. It's sad if SE don't know about this.


It'd be difficult to imagine that SE doesn't know about it. They may not know what to do about it right now though.

And the longer it goes on, the worse that sentence gets.
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#48 Oct 07 2013 at 6:21 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Warmech wrote:
Wow, I logged off sunday feelling used after it took me almost 3 hours to figure out the lv 50 botanist quest without a guide. You have to wait in Coerthas from dawn to dusk with Truth of forest on then the tree pops the next day for awhile, you have to find it. There was always people standing near the lone tree doing nothing. The last two out of the four times i found the tree I used the skill to make all the choices be known not only did people near the tree started chopping at least five warped in from nowhere and went at it. They was all gone before I finished my hits. I didn't know I got the item the third time and got hit by the same group the fourth time. The game says Spruce is the rarest wood there is but stacks of 99 sell at retainer boards. It's sad if SE don't know about this.


It'd be difficult to imagine that SE doesn't know about it. They may not know what to do about it right now though.

And the longer it goes on, the worse that sentence gets.


I did my bit to help SE out by doing some digging and sending the STF details on the author of a bot , their webpage, facebook page (how colossally dumb would you have to be to like a public Failbook page of a bot? twitter account etc.) I don't doubt others had already done so, and no doubt they already had the bot and were working on reverse engineering it, but it made me feel good to at least do something.

Originally I sent the info to support, but they emailed me back and said to send it straight to the STF.

The bot in question is in fact 3 different bots, one auto attacks, one crafts (HQ too would you believe it) and one is our friend the teleporting gathering bot. Hopefully yhey will be able to set up a signature server side to spot the telltales and hammer the gits.
#49 Oct 07 2013 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
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Warmech wrote:
Wow, I logged off sunday feelling used after it took me almost 3 hours to figure out the lv 50 botanist quest without a guide. You have to wait in Coerthas from dawn to dusk with Truth of forest on then the tree pops the next day for awhile, you have to find it. There was always people standing near the lone tree doing nothing. The last two out of the four times i found the tree I used the skill to make all the choices be known not only did people near the tree started chopping at least five warped in from nowhere and went at it. They was all gone before I finished my hits. I didn't know I got the item the third time and got hit by the same group the fourth time. The game says Spruce is the rarest wood there is but stacks of 99 sell at retainer boards. It's sad if SE don't know about this.


I assume you felt used from the people who 'warped in', but the spawn location of the unspoiled are very exact and I don't find it strange that there are already people lying in wait in that location (and sometimes if you notice some of them don't start gathering). I spent good 2 hours on Sunday logging/mining cluster on the side while fishing to 50 and I can tell there are pretty much only 3 or so spots for logging and 3 for mining that spawn at the exact in-game hour. That and saving GP to use +2 per gather skill instead of Toil can net you 15 x of Spruce Log per spawn, and if you are quick you can get it quick enough you can get all 3 spots you can get 45 Log an in-game day. I know there are a lot of teleport bots but a normal dedicated player can still get a lot of those 'rare' material.

If you look at XIV App it has an alert function that will alert you if you input the in-game time (I assume) and you can guess pretty much those waiting people are probably multi-boxers who put alert on so they don't miss out their next gathering chance.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 11:31pm by Khornette
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#50 Oct 07 2013 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Is there a website that lists the times/areas?
#51 Oct 07 2013 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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I remember disciplesoftheland does.

Just in case someone doesn't know, you can have Truth of the Forest/Mountain on on any DoL. Fishing for lvl 50 in Coerthas and I got >200 clusters in that time span.

Edited, Oct 7th 2013 11:39pm by Khornette
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