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PSA: High Level Crafting LS on UltrosFollow

#1 Oct 08 2013 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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I'm in the Kraken Club FC on Ultros for those of you who don't know me, and I also joined a secondary LS for high-level crafters to network and help each other, get rare items, etc.

Must have at least one craft 35+

If anyone from the Kraken Club would also like to join this LS, send me a tell in game so I can line that up for you.

Also a great way to get armor or weapons melded... there are tons of people with level 50 DoH jobs in the LS already.
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The Kraken Club - (Ultros FC)
Character Name: Meat Mithkabob
#2 Oct 08 2013 at 7:27 AM Rating: Decent
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So im not on ultros but perhaps i can pick your brain.

I have been leveling all of my crafts in sync from 1-5, 5-10, 10-15 etc.

Currently All are 45 except alchemy/cooking.

For the most part i have been sticking to triple leves cause im rather low (19 at the moment), but 40+ on alchemy seems like the only real option is to keep making those level 35 potions. Im not a fan of the 40 durability items as they are actually harder than the 70/80 durability items and give less exp than other tripples their same level. And the level 35 triple is cheaper/easier than any of the level 40 and gives more exp than the single hand ins/courier.

Is there a good spot to farm blue landtrap leafs or is it really just doing the 35 potions to 50? Because even the level 45 are stupid and require that god awful pudding flesh.
#3 Oct 08 2013 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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40 durability leves is where Manipulation really shines, but it's so reliant on Tricks of the Trade it's a gamble. Last night I HQ'd 8 Steel Ingots in a row, then NQ'd the next 7!? I'm also becoming horribly suspicious, if I miss HQ on a few tries I'll move position/direction and I swear I start getting better results.

FFXI crafting has ****** WITH MY MIND.
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#4 Oct 08 2013 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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My go to rotation on a 40 is:

1. Inner Quiet
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
2. Steady Hands II
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
3. If ToT was used then Manipulation, If not then Waste Not
4. Hasty Touch (3x if Manipulation, 4x if Waste Not) (Do not use ToT during this phase)
5. When Durability is 10/40 then Master's Mend, if 20/40 Steady Hands II + Hasty Touch to bring to 10/40 then Master's Mend
6. 40/40 - use Steady Hands II + Waste Not, then 4x Hasty Touch (Do NOt use ToT during this phase)
7. Get to 100% or as close as possible for quality while leaving just enough durability to finish
8. Rumination if needed, Steady Hands II, finish synth

I HQ nearly 100% of the time using this method for Steel Ingots as a level 40 ARM... I do sprinkle in ToT as long as I'm not in the middle of Manipulation or Waste Not, and the occasional Standard Touch on "Excellent" condition.

Edit:

I've actually found out recently that whether you're using Manipulation or Waste Not, it's best to always use ToT when it pops.

- If you're using Manipulation it will just add another 10 durability to the synth, so you didn't lose anything by taking the extra 20 CP.

- If you're using Waste Not, you only lose 5 durability and at the end when you're still left with 5, (which is just as good as 10, it gets you one more move), so again you didn't really lose anything.

I know I was the one who advocated this save tricks only for the times in-between, but I have been pretty active in crafting threads over on Reddit and have picked up a few things since I posted that advice here a few weeks ago.

The extra CP is actually more valuable to you than 1 tick of Manipulation or Waste Not, even when combined with SH2.

Edited, Nov 20th 2013 2:08pm by Hairspray
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Character Name: Meat Mithkabob
#5 Oct 08 2013 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
40 durability leves is where Manipulation really shines, but it's so reliant on Tricks of the Trade it's a gamble. Last night I HQ'd 8 Steel Ingots in a row, then NQ'd the next 7!? I'm also becoming horribly suspicious, if I miss HQ on a few tries I'll move position/direction and I swear I start getting better results.

FFXI crafting has @#%^ED WITH MY MIND.


Speaking of, my fiance saw some message about Lightning based crafting (Weaver) had some sort of reduced chance of success due to something... not sure what, but it reminded me of the old FFXI crafting when you had to craft on certain days to get the right touch for the type of crystal you were using.

I also always faced in the same direction when crafting... it's been a few years so please forgive the lack of detail in this, but it was ridiculous how intricate it was and how little SE actually gave us as far as information on how to do it. Somehow I managed to get 100+6 WW in FFXI, but wow it was nuts getting there.

FFXIV is a huge improvement in the crafting space... I am having so much fun doing it I have completely dropped leveling DRG for about the last month or so.
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The Kraken Club - (Ultros FC)
Character Name: Meat Mithkabob
#6 Oct 08 2013 at 8:55 AM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:
My go to rotation on a 40 is:

1. Inner Quiet
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
2. Steady Hands II
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
3. If ToT was used then Manipulation, If not then Waste Not
4. Hasty Touch (3x if Manipulation, 4x if Waste Not) (Do not use ToT during this phase)
5. When Durability is 10/40 then Master's Mend, if 20/40 Steady Hands II + Hasty Touch to bring to 10/40 then Master's Mend
6. 40/40 - use Steady Hands II + Waste Not, then 4x Hasty Touch (Do NOt use ToT during this phase)
7. Get to 100% or as close as possible for quality while leaving just enough durability to finish
8. Rumination if needed, Steady Hands II, finish synth

I HQ nearly 100% of the time using this method for Steel Ingots as a level 40 ARM... I do sprinkle in ToT as long as I'm not in the middle of Manipulation or Waste Not, and the occasional Standard Touch on "Excellent" condition.


I'd actually never thought of using Waste Not because if TotT procs it counts as a synth but the durability doesn't drop. I don't know how many times I've needed one synth to complete a recipe then noticed I'm sitting at 5 durability. I've only ever used it in emergency if I'm @ 10 durability but can't guarantee I'll finish in one action.

I've just had a thought, I wonder if Careful Synthesis would work on an item with 5 durability left without Waste Not active ....
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#7 Oct 08 2013 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
My go to rotation on a 40 is:

1. Inner Quiet
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
2. Steady Hands II
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
3. If ToT was used then Manipulation, If not then Waste Not
4. Hasty Touch (3x if Manipulation, 4x if Waste Not) (Do not use ToT during this phase)
5. When Durability is 10/40 then Master's Mend, if 20/40 Steady Hands II + Hasty Touch to bring to 10/40 then Master's Mend
6. 40/40 - use Steady Hands II + Waste Not, then 4x Hasty Touch (Do NOt use ToT during this phase)
7. Get to 100% or as close as possible for quality while leaving just enough durability to finish
8. Rumination if needed, Steady Hands II, finish synth

I HQ nearly 100% of the time using this method for Steel Ingots as a level 40 ARM... I do sprinkle in ToT as long as I'm not in the middle of Manipulation or Waste Not, and the occasional Standard Touch on "Excellent" condition.


I'd actually never thought of using Waste Not because if TotT procs it counts as a synth but the durability doesn't drop. I don't know how many times I've needed one synth to complete a recipe then noticed I'm sitting at 5 durability. I've only ever used it in emergency if I'm @ 10 durability but can't guarantee I'll finish in one action.

I've just had a thought, I wonder if Careful Synthesis would work on an item with 5 durability left without Waste Not active ....


Waste Not is awesome, it doubles the number of steps for almost half the CP cost of the other Durability tools. It should be your go to move unless you used ToT after Steady Hands, in which case you have the extra CP from that so use it on a Manipulation because you're left with 3 Steady Hands and lines up perfectly with Manipulation's 3... otherwise the Waste Not 4 attempts lines up with Steady Hands II's 4 attempts if you go that route... really it just comes down to whether or not you used a ToT.

I know it's confusing, this is not in any guide on the internet, I made this up myself and it works brilliantly.

Edit: If you have 5 durability you can still use any synthesis, even the normal one. 5/40 durabilty is the same as 10/40 for purposes of how many tries you have left (1). Smiley: grin

Edited, Oct 8th 2013 11:05am by Hairspray
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The Kraken Club - (Ultros FC)
Character Name: Meat Mithkabob
#8 Oct 08 2013 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
SolomonGrundy wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
My go to rotation on a 40 is:

1. Inner Quiet
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
2. Steady Hands II
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
3. If ToT was used then Manipulation, If not then Waste Not
4. Hasty Touch (3x if Manipulation, 4x if Waste Not) (Do not use ToT during this phase)
5. When Durability is 10/40 then Master's Mend, if 20/40 Steady Hands II + Hasty Touch to bring to 10/40 then Master's Mend
6. 40/40 - use Steady Hands II + Waste Not, then 4x Hasty Touch (Do NOt use ToT during this phase)
7. Get to 100% or as close as possible for quality while leaving just enough durability to finish
8. Rumination if needed, Steady Hands II, finish synth

I HQ nearly 100% of the time using this method for Steel Ingots as a level 40 ARM... I do sprinkle in ToT as long as I'm not in the middle of Manipulation or Waste Not, and the occasional Standard Touch on "Excellent" condition.


I'd actually never thought of using Waste Not because if TotT procs it counts as a synth but the durability doesn't drop. I don't know how many times I've needed one synth to complete a recipe then noticed I'm sitting at 5 durability. I've only ever used it in emergency if I'm @ 10 durability but can't guarantee I'll finish in one action.

I've just had a thought, I wonder if Careful Synthesis would work on an item with 5 durability left without Waste Not active ....


For completion? Yes.
#9 Oct 08 2013 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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Nice, thanks for that!
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Solomon Grundy | Born on a Monday | Excalibur Server | Abyss: Welcome to a Higher Quality of Nerding™
#10 Oct 08 2013 at 9:11 AM Rating: Excellent
SolomonGrundy wrote:
40 durability leves is where Manipulation really shines, but it's so reliant on Tricks of the Trade it's a gamble. Last night I HQ'd 8 Steel Ingots in a row, then NQ'd the next 7!? I'm also becoming horribly suspicious, if I miss HQ on a few tries I'll move position/direction and I swear I start getting better results.

FFXI crafting has @#%^ED WITH MY MIND.


Were you doing these on Firesday? You know you have to use fire crystals on Firesday while facing southeast while standing on one foot while singing happy birthday...At times there is something screwy with crafting. Last night I was spamming mythril ingots with HQ mats which is an easy HQ for me. However, every 5th ingot would NQ either by every touch failing or being at over 90% quality but not HQing. Random is random, but it was literally every 5th ingot for two stacks.
#11 Oct 08 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I still want to figure the odds of having 10 failed hasty hands, with the SH2 on. It was 10/15 fails. Its times like that i feel like im back in ff11 where crafting was more chance than skill.
#12 Oct 08 2013 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
I still want to figure the odds of having 10 failed hasty hands, with the SH2 on. It was 10/15 fails. Its times like that i feel like im back in ff11 where crafting was more chance than skill.


That is pretty brutal, but I guess it can happen.

Can someone clarify for me, is SH2+HH as 65% proc (50% + (30% of 50%) or a straight 80% (30% + 50%)? I read it as 65%, but I've seen arguments against, but the only reasoning for the argument was the wording of SH2.

Edited for typo

Edited, Oct 8th 2013 11:46am by SolomonGrundy

Edited again 'cause I had a massive brain ****.

Edited, Oct 8th 2013 11:56am by SolomonGrundy
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#13 Oct 08 2013 at 9:44 AM Rating: Excellent
dustinfoley wrote:
I still want to figure the odds of having 10 failed hasty hands, with the SH2 on. It was 10/15 fails. Its times like that i feel like im back in ff11 where crafting was more chance than skill.


That's what happened to me last night with my touch fails. There just seem to be times where hasty hands refuses to succeed, SH or not.
#14 Oct 08 2013 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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It is generally accepted that SH2 (+30%) + hasty hands (50%) is additive for a total of 80%, which seems to fit the fail/success rates I've observed.

The issue is steady hands 1. I have seen times where +20% SH1 and standard touch (80%) have failed, but its so rare it was maybe 5 times total while leveling weaver 1-50 (didnt have hasty hands or sh2 back when i did it). Alot of people have said they have seen it fail, but it was just ultra rare. It makes me think that its lag and the buff looks like its still there, and its really gone and just hasn't updated yet.

Ive seen this a lot with tricks of the trade not popping, because it doesnt show up as good until after i hit hasty hands (with lag can take up to 3 seconds some times to appear as good). I just assume its the general lag that is part of ff14.
#15 Oct 08 2013 at 11:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:
My go to rotation on a 40 is:

1. Inner Quiet
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
2. Steady Hands II
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
3. If ToT was used then Manipulation, If not then Waste Not
4. Hasty Touch (3x if Manipulation, 4x if Waste Not) (Do not use ToT during this phase)
5. When Durability is 10/40 then Master's Mend, if 20/40 Steady Hands II + Hasty Touch to bring to 10/40 then Master's Mend
6. 40/40 - use Steady Hands II + Waste Not, then 4x Hasty Touch (Do NOt use ToT during this phase)
7. Get to 100% or as close as possible for quality while leaving just enough durability to finish
8. Rumination if needed, Steady Hands II, finish synth

I HQ nearly 100% of the time using this method for Steel Ingots as a level 40 ARM... I do sprinkle in ToT as long as I'm not in the middle of Manipulation or Waste Not, and the occasional Standard Touch on "Excellent" condition.



Made a flow-chart for easy reference:

Screenshot
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Character Name: Meat Mithkabob
#16 Oct 08 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
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It's a straight 80%. As for figuring the odds, 80% success just means that there is a 1 in 5 chance of failure per attempt.
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#17 Oct 08 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
Hairspray wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
My go to rotation on a 40 is:

1. Inner Quiet
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
2. Steady Hands II
-Tricks of the Trade (If up)
3. If ToT was used then Manipulation, If not then Waste Not
4. Hasty Touch (3x if Manipulation, 4x if Waste Not) (Do not use ToT during this phase)
5. When Durability is 10/40 then Master's Mend, if 20/40 Steady Hands II + Hasty Touch to bring to 10/40 then Master's Mend
6. 40/40 - use Steady Hands II + Waste Not, then 4x Hasty Touch (Do NOt use ToT during this phase)
7. Get to 100% or as close as possible for quality while leaving just enough durability to finish
8. Rumination if needed, Steady Hands II, finish synth

I HQ nearly 100% of the time using this method for Steel Ingots as a level 40 ARM... I do sprinkle in ToT as long as I'm not in the middle of Manipulation or Waste Not, and the occasional Standard Touch on "Excellent" condition.



Made a flow-chart for easy reference:

Screenshot


Nice chart. We have pretty much the same rotation, but I don't have SH2. I've been putting off leveling CUL past 15 even though I know I should. On a side note are there any synths with easily obtainable mats worth grinding or would it be better to leve spam my way to 37?
#18 Oct 08 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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The Kraken Club has a Crafting LS, if you weren't aware.
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#19 Oct 08 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Well no kidding that 80% success = 1/5 chance to fail. But from a statistics point of view, i was more interested in knowing thetest value on that.

Expected 12/15 success (3/15 fail)
Observed 5/15 success (10/15 fail)

Odds of failing 10 times in a row 0.0000001024 (1 in 9,765,625)
Odds of failing 10 out of 15 times with a 0.2% chance to fail 0.000100763959296 (1 in 9900)

#20 Oct 08 2013 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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What is your cp at cause i do round 1 (5-6 hasty depending on if i use manip or wnwn) then hit makers mend and do phase 2 (again 5-6 hasty depending on manip/wnwn)

This typically leaves me at about 20-40% chance to hq with 0 cp and 1 move for progress, if i use rumination i can get some cp but lose my IQ stacks and basically get it to 70-80% chance to hq at best.

This did work once, when 0 hasty touches failed, so basically i had 11 hasty touch, and perfect luck with tot so that i could use manipulation both times. Without that though it seems to cap out at 20-40% unless you get a lucky excellent/a lot of goods during + quality
#21 Oct 08 2013 at 11:57 PM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
What is your cp at cause i do round 1 (5-6 hasty depending on if i use manip or wnwn) then hit makers mend and do phase 2 (again 5-6 hasty depending on manip/wnwn)

This typically leaves me at about 20-40% chance to hq with 0 cp and 1 move for progress, if i use rumination i can get some cp but lose my IQ stacks and basically get it to 70-80% chance to hq at best.

This did work once, when 0 hasty touches failed, so basically i had 11 hasty touch, and perfect luck with tot so that i could use manipulation both times. Without that though it seems to cap out at 20-40% unless you get a lucky excellent/a lot of goods during + quality


Are you using renumerate?
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#22 Oct 09 2013 at 5:52 AM Rating: Good
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Bludot wrote:
The Kraken Club has a Crafting LS, if you weren't aware.


No I was not aware... please send me an invite to this LS later.

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Character Name: Meat Mithkabob
#23 Oct 09 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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SolomonGrundy wrote:


Are you using renumerate?



Yes, but you need roughly 11 successful hasty touches to get 100%, which means not failing a single one, and on average you will fail 2.2 thus leaving you at ~60%. Assuming you never get a good + hasty touch, which seems often enough.

I am not saying your method wont work, just that it relies very heavily on luck at my level. (no fails, or good + hasty touching 2+).

I personally went and just farmed 50 land trap leaves, it only took me an hour, and its 10000x easier to hq than lanolin and is enough to take me from 40 to 50 alchemist.

I will try again at 50 with my HQ gear set, but at 40 with level 38 hq gear/tools it just doesn't work enough ( i had 2/10 hq).

Now that all my crafters are 45 though, i will get crp to 50 first for brengots blessing or w/e its called and see if that helps.
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