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Someone call the whaaambulance. Opinions wanted. lolFollow

#1 Oct 09 2013 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Now I'll preface this with part of my issue is a lot of my XI friends that I went to my server with have lives of their own aren't on as often as the good ole days and when they are because of the party limits being 4 usually it leaves me out in the cold since I'm the odd one out that isnt a irl friend. TLDR of it is because of it I'm mostly feeling like I'm playing solo. Add in see the shouts for primal farming or coil etc and it got me to thinking. I'll preface this every mmo has its elitists I'm not saying otherwise. But am I the only that notices and thinks perhaps XIV's elitism is just a little over the top? Make one mistake? Kicked, First time doing? Sorry only want experienced. Trying to work on getting a relic? See shouts saying only accepting people with relic. (Which makes you wonder why they wanna farm primals anyways lol) While nothing will really change this it's really really turning me off to even wanna play. It frankly makes Rift and WoW seem downright friendly lol.
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#2 Oct 09 2013 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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IMHO it's just you, played WoW for awhile in the past and see alot of that attitude. So it's not really special to FFXIV.

Also some people farm primals for either tome (faster to spam primals than waiting the "reserving instance" of AK) or weapon for their other class.
#3 Oct 09 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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You have shouts turned on on an NA server?
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#4 Oct 09 2013 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
I still don't know why people think this is the majority of players. I use the DF almost exclusively minus a few FC events, and I have met maybe 3 ******** since launch. I've done AK, CM, Ifrit about 80 times (***** you ACN codex that drops 9/10 times), Garuda HM, etc, and no one's ever lost it on a new player, lost their mind for someone messing something up 2-3 times. Oddly enough, those were in the earlier dungeons.

I've seen people politely point out that certain gear pieces should maybe be upgraded before trying again, or explain that Ifrit always fires off in a clockwise motion, so stop getting hit by it. Usually, it's the recipient getting all offended rather then taking it as friendly advice. Does the game have asshats? Yup. Are they the majority of people, nope. They just tend to stick out more than others, so you remember them. You rarely remember that flawless dungeon run, but you remember that one time things didn't go well.

Edited, Oct 9th 2013 10:28pm by Montsegurnephcreep
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#5 Oct 09 2013 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
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All of that will change when you find the right FC. I understand that you want to play with your xi friends but if your getting excluded it might be a good idea to look for an FC that can help you. You can stil be their friend and be in another FC.

My FC is helpfull and we all try to help each other out, even the new recruits. We teach them how to beat each run, and no one has a problem with content anymore. We also dont gear check our own people, we do what we can with what and who we have so no one gets excluded. The only exception is the coil since that dungeon demands it.
#6 Oct 09 2013 at 9:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Toyototoyo wrote:
IMHO it's just you, played WoW for awhile in the past and see alot of that attitude.

A lot of the elitism of WoW dissipated with the addition of ilvl requirements. Shouts for PUG groups almost always state a required ilvl and it's hard to achieve that wearing improper(PvP) gear. It still exists on a smaller scale if you have the correct ilvl and you're not performing as you should be, but that's to be expected.

@OP

It's not much different from XI really. Not sure if you've played lately, but if you want to join a delve group to farm for a weapon you'll be expected to already have one. This isn't new either. It was like that very shortly after people realized the potential of the weapons.

What it boils down to is people want to farm as efficiently as possible and they'd almost(unless paid) prefer overgeared groups for farming to carrying people with little to no experience. It's the same situation people run into when looking for a job in the real world. Many employers require that you have experience under your belt before they're even willing to look at you.
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#7 Oct 09 2013 at 11:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I still don't know why people think this is the majority of players. I use the DF almost exclusively minus a few FC events, and I have met maybe 3 ******** since launch. I've done AK, CM, Ifrit about 80 times (***** you ACN codex that drops 9/10 times), Garuda HM, etc, and no one's ever lost it on a new player, lost their mind for someone messing something up 2-3 times. Oddly enough, those were in the earlier dungeons.

I've seen people politely point out that certain gear pieces should maybe be upgraded before trying again, or explain that Ifrit always fires off in a clockwise motion, so stop getting hit by it. Usually, it's the recipient getting all offended rather then taking it as friendly advice. Does the game have asshats? Yup. Are they the majority of people, nope. They just tend to stick out more than others, so you remember them. You rarely remember that flawless dungeon run, but you remember that one time things didn't go well.

Edited, Oct 9th 2013 10:28pm by Montsegurnephcreep



Queue for Titan HM. Just do it.

Make sure you have popcorn nearby.
#8 Oct 10 2013 at 12:04 AM Rating: Excellent
I will! I'll still have fun either way, people will eventually figure it out. Some fc's are doing it with 5 members (to maximize profit on their selling of wins). There's also a group who did it in Bikini...with relics and high level accessories but still. Much like Ifrit and Garuda you eventually run into 7 other people who know the fight. I know Titan is a whole other animal, but still, my point remains that win or lose through DF on Titan the minority will be the asshats.
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#9 Oct 10 2013 at 1:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Well I'm not really speaking about difficulty more than holy crap I've never seen so many dbags in the span of one hour before. As soon as I unlocked Titan, a whole bunch of us (5 or so) from the same FC queued together. I think it was like 14~16 instances of people just talking trash and demeaning others. It made this (an early Garuda HM about 3 weeks ago):

http://i.imgur.com/umRV3aQ.jpg

look like a polite conversation between peers. >_>

Actually, after leaving DF alone for a while, I queued for Garuda on my paladin last night. Everyone was extremely polite and calm which amazed me. We didn't have the DPS (and I don't think I have the gear to MT) her so we all just learned what we could and then went our separate ways. No harsh words, no degrading others...it was like I was in a different universe.

Perhaps DF has cleared out after the free trial period ended. I'll do a few DF Titans tomorrow on my BLM to see and will report back with results! lol

Edited, Oct 10th 2013 3:09am by HitomeOfBismarck
#10 Oct 10 2013 at 1:19 AM Rating: Decent
I always laugh at the "I don't want to waste more time!" RAGE. You're playing a video game, an MMO of all things, it's precisely what you're doing.
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#11 Oct 10 2013 at 1:34 AM Rating: Good
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Everyone replying needs to add a disclaimer of whether u r on a NA or JP server, cuz really I hear it makes a big difference, I've barely had any issues in 100s of runs and I'm generally nice enough to new people just as others have been nice to me.
#12 Oct 10 2013 at 1:36 AM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Well I'm not really speaking about difficulty more than holy crap I've never seen so many dbags in the span of one hour before. As soon as I unlocked Titan, a whole bunch of us (5 or so) from the same FC queued together. I think it was like 14~16 instances of people just talking trash and demeaning others. It made this (an early Garuda HM about 3 weeks ago):

http://i.imgur.com/umRV3aQ.jpg

look like a polite conversation between peers. >_>

Actually, after leaving DF alone for a while, I queued for Garuda on my paladin last night. Everyone was extremely polite and calm which amazed me. We didn't have the DPS (and I don't think I have the gear to MT) her so we all just learned what we could and then went our separate ways. No harsh words, no degrading others...it was like I was in a different universe.

Perhaps DF has cleared out after the free trial period ended. I'll do a few DF Titans tomorrow on my BLM to see and will report back with results! lol

Edited, Oct 10th 2013 3:09am by HitomeOfBismarck


Interesting conversation. O.o

To be fair, the off-tank should have had provoke (how could he think it was optional), and I would never start an endgame fight without researching what to expect first? He did try to be reasonable and ask questions though, the others could have been more gracious. I'd like to have seen these people do CoP.
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#13 Oct 10 2013 at 1:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I always laugh at the "I don't want to waste more time!" RAGE. You're playing a video game, an MMO of all things, it's precisely what you're doing.


I don't think anyone would disagree that gaming isn't the most productive thing you could do with your time. That said, if you only had an hour or two to enjoy yourself and you wanted to get something accomplished in-game, you'd probably try to get the most competent group that you could and make quick and easy work of it.
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#14 Oct 10 2013 at 2:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Double post Smiley: glare


Edited, Oct 10th 2013 4:02am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#15 Oct 10 2013 at 2:38 AM Rating: Decent
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
Interesting conversation. O.o

To be fair, the off-tank should have had provoke (how could he think it was optional), and I would never start an endgame fight without researching what to expect first? He did try to be reasonable and ask questions though, the others could have been more gracious. I'd like to have seen these people do CoP.


Well I am glad he was not as wavering as other people have been when they've been degraded like that in DF. He honestly wanted to learn and no one would teach him. The best thing I could do for him at the time was direct him to the Curse video on Garuda.

As the conversation implies, he actually had it down just right the first time we attempted it. The next few times he ran through vortices and some other things which wasn't so nice.

It's sad that many of these runs I've done with these ******** have actually been capable of downing whatever we were up against. The only thing preventing us were the egos of the people in the group. 99% of my Titan DF experiences have been that way. I eventually just found a server group.
#16 Oct 10 2013 at 3:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Everyone replying needs to add a disclaimer of whether u r on a NA or JP server, cuz really I hear it makes a big difference, I've barely had any issues in 100s of runs and I'm generally nice enough to new people just as others have been nice to me.


Well the beauty of a Japanese server for me is not actually being able to read Japanese. Those shouts in town and chat in JP DF parties I get could be totally obnoxious for all I know.

Had a similiar experience in Vancouver when I lived right next to a latin family in a unit with very thin walls. They were as noisy as all ****, but I pretty much just blocked it out because I couldn't understand what they were saying.
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#17 Oct 10 2013 at 5:28 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I always laugh at the "I don't want to waste more time!" RAGE. You're playing a video game, an MMO of all things, it's precisely what you're doing.


I don't think anyone would disagree that gaming isn't the most productive thing you could do with your time. That said, if you only had an hour or two to enjoy yourself and you wanted to get something accomplished in-game, you'd probably try to get the most competent group that you could and make quick and easy work of it.


If you only have an hour or two and you are thinking of using DF to get something productive done and expect DF to be a 100% chance at that, then you obviously are new to these things (And no I am not saying YOU, but you as in people in general). This whole excuse of "I only have an hour or so and would like to get something accomplished" is a horrible one when it comes to dungeons and should be banned from existence. You can't rely on a random DF group to get anything productive done just like you can't rely on RNG to get you that drop. Sometimes you get a group that flows, sometimes you don't and it is a crap shoot either way. You have an hour or two, then get a FC group and you up your chances, otherwise stop complaining and acting like a 14 year old American kid when the RNG group doesn't perform flawlessly.
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#18 Oct 10 2013 at 6:50 AM Rating: Good
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I've found if I only have an hour or two and I want to do something productive, I should switch over to botanist and go take out some aggression on trees. I always feel better afterward.
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#19 Oct 10 2013 at 6:53 AM Rating: Default
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No, it's not just you.

It's over the top. I think it will get better but right now there's just a bottleneck of people at the end of the rainbow. Will so many people there, often times parties feel they can just kick and boot until they get a relic samurai to carry them through an event.

Find an FC. Is that FC a bunch of douches? Leave and find another. I'm happy to say that my FC doesn't adhere to this silly elitism and enjoys teaching and growing members, instead of booting and bickering.

Quote:
To be fair, the off-tank should have had provoke


Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh

That was a good joke, lol. In the off chance you were serious... provoke is possibly the worst hate generating ability in the game. It's terrible. OT should use tomahawk and then flash like 4 times and then a few overpowers. (I OT this all the time.)

Edited, Oct 10th 2013 8:56am by Louiscool
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#20 Oct 10 2013 at 6:59 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
I've found if I only have an hour or two and I want to do something productive, I should switch over to botanist and go take out some aggression on trees. I always feel better afterward.


If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? Maybe we would, if they screamed all of the time, for no good reason.

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#21 Oct 10 2013 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis wrote:
Catwho wrote:
I've found if I only have an hour or two and I want to do something productive, I should switch over to botanist and go take out some aggression on trees. I always feel better afterward.
If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? Maybe we would, if they screamed all of the time, for no good reason.

Eh, I work for a timber company. Chop 'em down, grow some more!

(We actually grow more than we chop down.)
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#22 Oct 10 2013 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
No, it's not just you.

It's over the top. I think it will get better but right now there's just a bottleneck of people at the end of the rainbow. Will so many people there, often times parties feel they can just kick and boot until they get a relic samurai to carry them through an event.

Find an FC. Is that FC a bunch of douches? Leave and find another. I'm happy to say that my FC doesn't adhere to this silly elitism and enjoys teaching and growing members, instead of booting and bickering.

Quote:
To be fair, the off-tank should have had provoke


Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh

That was a good joke, lol. In the off chance you were serious... provoke is possibly the worst hate generating ability in the game. It's terrible. OT should use tomahawk and then flash like 4 times and then a few overpowers. (I OT this all the time.)

Edited, Oct 10th 2013 8:56am by Louiscool


It's actually not too bad on Garuda when your healers might be spamming medica for massive threat. From what I understand here, it just bumps you up one level above the person with highest threat.

Quote:
Provoke – Matches top enmity player +1 enmity point. 40 second cool down. Since this does not deal damage and only gives you 1 enmity point more than the person at the top of the list, I strongly recommend you macro this into Rage of Halone (Highest melee enmity single GCD ability) and Shield Lob (Highest ranged enmity single GCD ability).


Still would go with your rotation. I find lob > scorn/spirits/halone is plenty for initial threat then a combo halone will seal the deal.

Edited, Oct 10th 2013 9:53am by HitomeOfBismarck
#23 Oct 10 2013 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, it puts you above the top of the list but it's easy to lose hate again right away. On garuda, you shouldn't have trouble grabbing the red sister if your team knows to wait a second before spamming stuff.

Personally, I would rather use another flash in that time to potentially hold Green sister for a second or two longer and give my team a break from the aoe.
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#24 Oct 10 2013 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
No, it's not just you.

It's over the top. I think it will get better but right now there's just a bottleneck of people at the end of the rainbow. Will so many people there, often times parties feel they can just kick and boot until they get a relic samurai to carry them through an event.

Find an FC. Is that FC a bunch of douches? Leave and find another. I'm happy to say that my FC doesn't adhere to this silly elitism and enjoys teaching and growing members, instead of booting and bickering.

Quote:
To be fair, the off-tank should have had provoke


Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh

That was a good joke, lol. In the off chance you were serious... provoke is possibly the worst hate generating ability in the game. It's terrible. OT should use tomahawk and then flash like 4 times and then a few overpowers. (I OT this all the time.)

Edited, Oct 10th 2013 8:56am by Louiscool


It's actually not too bad on Garuda when your healers might be spamming medica for massive threat. From what I understand here, it just bumps you up one level above the person with highest threat.

Quote:
Provoke – Matches top enmity player +1 enmity point. 40 second cool down. Since this does not deal damage and only gives you 1 enmity point more than the person at the top of the list, I strongly recommend you macro this into Rage of Halone (Highest melee enmity single GCD ability) and Shield Lob (Highest ranged enmity single GCD ability).


Still would go with your rotation. I find lob > scorn/spirits/halone is plenty for initial threat then a combo halone will seal the deal.

Edited, Oct 10th 2013 9:53am by HitomeOfBismarck


Exactly my point, thank you.
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#25 Oct 10 2013 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
Yeah, it puts you above the top of the list but it's easy to lose hate again right away. On garuda, you shouldn't have trouble grabbing the red sister if your team knows to wait a second before spamming stuff.

Personally, I would rather use another flash in that time to potentially hold Green sister for a second or two longer and give my team a break from the aoe.


Only if you're just standing there watching. The enmity mechanic in XIV is such that it's not hard to maintain aggro once you have it if you're using skills in the correct order, but you can(and people actually do) game the provoke mechanic to get a bit of a boost when they can.
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Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#26 Oct 11 2013 at 7:21 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Yeah, it puts you above the top of the list but it's easy to lose hate again right away. On garuda, you shouldn't have trouble grabbing the red sister if your team knows to wait a second before spamming stuff.

Personally, I would rather use another flash in that time to potentially hold Green sister for a second or two longer and give my team a break from the aoe.


Only if you're just standing there watching. The enmity mechanic in XIV is such that it's not hard to maintain aggro once you have it if you're using skills in the correct order, but you can(and people actually do) game the provoke mechanic to get a bit of a boost when they can.


On Garuda, you have to hold at least one sister while trying to tank the second. For this purpose, provoke is fairly useless, imo.

The main use for provoke is when the OT has to tank over MT duties when the MT dies. Other than that, it's a tiny boost that could have been better spent doing another hate combo or a flash.
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#27 Oct 11 2013 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Valeforelacky wrote:
But am I the only that notices and thinks perhaps XIV's elitism is just a little over the top? Make one mistake? Kicked, First time doing? Sorry only want experienced. Trying to work on getting a relic? See shouts saying only accepting people with relic. (Which makes you wonder why they wanna farm primals anyways lol) While nothing will really change this it's really really turning me off to even wanna play. It frankly makes Rift and WoW seem downright friendly lol.


No you're not the only one. I'm level 50 but didn't rush. I'm up to HM Titan for my relic and I've stopped to gear up a bit before trying it (working on AK drops and Darklight). We have a really mixed group. Some have rushed ahead and are very focused/want to be the best. Others are levelling slowly and getting up there but also enjoying a range of other classes and crafting. I'm somewhere in the middle.

What I do think you're seeing is that the hardcore crowd are pretty much at the end of what they're prepared to do. Not everyone wants to level multiple classes or craft so they've had time to focus on pimping themselves out and moving on. There's probably a bunch of people who are going to get burntout/bored and move on.

I don't think DF helps that culture either. I think it's a good thing to have but equally there's less comeback if you're a born-again douchebag. I've really enjoyed levelling, the majority of dungeons and crafting but I'm not enormously enjoying the CM spam and the idiots I've encountered at 50. Way I figure it though is some will move on.

It does sound like your FC isn't a great match for you. 8 man runs make things easier I guess but perhaps you need to find a bigger, more inclusive group? I have to say though, you do spend a lot more time on your own in this game than you did in XI.
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#28Queen EmmanuellaLima, Posted: Oct 11 2013 at 11:48 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You are dealing with WoW and DC Universe Online players. The games are watered down so much for them. They are not able to handle one slip or they go into rage. I am a old FFXI endgame leader and their elite is not elite. They are not able to multi-task and use roles different if something goes wrong. Arcanist being one of the main jobs I see that mess up. They have not learned crowd control with Topaz or how to back up heal for the healer.
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