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#52 Oct 12 2013 at 4:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
Eh, might be a stretch to assume they'll tamed or obedient as that depends largely on the mob population and the locale itself. All the guards in magitek facility? Sure. Does that random pugil really want to run to the dragon when it's roaring in Brayfox? Probably not.

I suspect future dungeons will be designed deliberately with no safe spots to die/revive and yet more locking mechanisms akin to the doors in front of the AK bosses. Making trash more rewarding should be the biggest lesson taken from all this, though. I'll even be "that guy" and propose they be able to drop anything you could find in that dungeon's boss chests, just at a low percentage.

Edited, Oct 12th 2013 12:15am by Seriha


An (actually good) suggestion I saw on *gasp* the OF...make trash drop one, or even two tomestones per kill. I bet you people will gladly kill everything in sight then.

I don't know what would be a proper solution towards letting the new people watch story cutscenes in peace during dungeon runs, though.
#53 Oct 12 2013 at 4:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Prandiol wrote:
I'd love it if the end boss simply called all his minions "who have survived the adventurers' attack" and they all pile on. Meaning, naturally, that if you skip all the trash, you're dealing with dozens of trash mobs. After all, wouldn't intelligent mobs (including trained animals) rush to their master's defense if he was being attacked?

Edited, Oct 11th 2013 11:55pm by Prandiol


this would be pretty hilarious
#54 Oct 12 2013 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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Arcari wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Eh, might be a stretch to assume they'll tamed or obedient as that depends largely on the mob population and the locale itself. All the guards in magitek facility? Sure. Does that random pugil really want to run to the dragon when it's roaring in Brayfox? Probably not.

I suspect future dungeons will be designed deliberately with no safe spots to die/revive and yet more locking mechanisms akin to the doors in front of the AK bosses. Making trash more rewarding should be the biggest lesson taken from all this, though. I'll even be "that guy" and propose they be able to drop anything you could find in that dungeon's boss chests, just at a low percentage.

Edited, Oct 12th 2013 12:15am by Seriha


An (actually good) suggestion I saw on *gasp* the OF...make trash drop one, or even two tomestones per kill. I bet you people will gladly kill everything in sight then.

I don't know what would be a proper solution towards letting the new people watch story cutscenes in peace during dungeon runs, though.

While I understand the notion, I fear I've been around the MMO scene long enough to know people would complain about the "bads" being able to gear up by never actually killing a boss. And given what seems to be a curious habit of devs across games to pander to this demographic, you'll never see it even if my spiteful side would love to stick it to them.
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#55 Oct 12 2013 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
Arcari wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Eh, might be a stretch to assume they'll tamed or obedient as that depends largely on the mob population and the locale itself. All the guards in magitek facility? Sure. Does that random pugil really want to run to the dragon when it's roaring in Brayfox? Probably not.

I suspect future dungeons will be designed deliberately with no safe spots to die/revive and yet more locking mechanisms akin to the doors in front of the AK bosses. Making trash more rewarding should be the biggest lesson taken from all this, though. I'll even be "that guy" and propose they be able to drop anything you could find in that dungeon's boss chests, just at a low percentage.

Edited, Oct 12th 2013 12:15am by Seriha


An (actually good) suggestion I saw on *gasp* the OF...make trash drop one, or even two tomestones per kill. I bet you people will gladly kill everything in sight then.

I don't know what would be a proper solution towards letting the new people watch story cutscenes in peace during dungeon runs, though.

While I understand the notion, I fear I've been around the MMO scene long enough to know people would complain about the "bads" being able to gear up by never actually killing a boss. And given what seems to be a curious habit of devs across games to pander to this demographic, you'll never see it even if my spiteful side would love to stick it to them.


Since you`ve been in the MMO scene long enough like i have then you must know that, unfortunately, someone will somehow find something to complain about, no matters what the devs do, no matter if they listen to feedback, someone will complain.
#56 Oct 12 2013 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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MitArgento wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Arcari wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Eh, might be a stretch to assume they'll tamed or obedient as that depends largely on the mob population and the locale itself. All the guards in magitek facility? Sure. Does that random pugil really want to run to the dragon when it's roaring in Brayfox? Probably not.

I suspect future dungeons will be designed deliberately with no safe spots to die/revive and yet more locking mechanisms akin to the doors in front of the AK bosses. Making trash more rewarding should be the biggest lesson taken from all this, though. I'll even be "that guy" and propose they be able to drop anything you could find in that dungeon's boss chests, just at a low percentage.

Edited, Oct 12th 2013 12:15am by Seriha


An (actually good) suggestion I saw on *gasp* the OF...make trash drop one, or even two tomestones per kill. I bet you people will gladly kill everything in sight then.

I don't know what would be a proper solution towards letting the new people watch story cutscenes in peace during dungeon runs, though.

While I understand the notion, I fear I've been around the MMO scene long enough to know people would complain about the "bads" being able to gear up by never actually killing a boss. And given what seems to be a curious habit of devs across games to pander to this demographic, you'll never see it even if my spiteful side would love to stick it to them.


Since you`ve been in the MMO scene long enough like i have then you must know that, unfortunately, someone will somehow find something to complain about, no matters what the devs do, no matter if they listen to feedback, someone will complain.


Bingo.

Sitting here on my PLD realizing I need about 2.6k more tomes to complete her, I'm looking at around 13 hours of mindless CM and Prae farming. Sometimes I'll switch to AK for a change of pace despite capped on myth.

Any fresh 50 will need around 5000 minimum to gear up (forgoing crafting materials). And what if you have multiple jobs that don't use the same DL armor? It's a friggin' nightmare.

If you wish to stop this speed run mentality (hint: you never will), address the source of the problem instead. When people were just entering coil and progressing through turn 1-4, I can see the need for the gear gate. Otherwise, people complete the content too fast. But now that many people are stuck on Twintania where DL gear isn't going to be helpful (only AF2 or Allagan), the rate of gathering phil. tomes should have been increased or the prices of DL gear decreased. If I'm looking at 25+ hours of CM/Prae runs just to gear a fresh 50, I'll go nuts.

There are a lot of things they could do to separate the story instances from the farming instances but they seem to be a little short on content at the moment. I'd hope we'd see daily quests here in a bit that would phil. tomes and gold pieces on completion. The reason you'll never see speed runs disappear is simply because people want to optimize their farming routine down to the second. We saw this in 11 with merit camps, we saw it in GW2 with skipping a majority of trash in EXP modes, and we've seen it in dailies/badge farming in WoW.

#57 Oct 12 2013 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
MitArgento wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Arcari wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Eh, might be a stretch to assume they'll tamed or obedient as that depends largely on the mob population and the locale itself. All the guards in magitek facility? Sure. Does that random pugil really want to run to the dragon when it's roaring in Brayfox? Probably not.

I suspect future dungeons will be designed deliberately with no safe spots to die/revive and yet more locking mechanisms akin to the doors in front of the AK bosses. Making trash more rewarding should be the biggest lesson taken from all this, though. I'll even be "that guy" and propose they be able to drop anything you could find in that dungeon's boss chests, just at a low percentage.

Edited, Oct 12th 2013 12:15am by Seriha


An (actually good) suggestion I saw on *gasp* the OF...make trash drop one, or even two tomestones per kill. I bet you people will gladly kill everything in sight then.

I don't know what would be a proper solution towards letting the new people watch story cutscenes in peace during dungeon runs, though.

While I understand the notion, I fear I've been around the MMO scene long enough to know people would complain about the "bads" being able to gear up by never actually killing a boss. And given what seems to be a curious habit of devs across games to pander to this demographic, you'll never see it even if my spiteful side would love to stick it to them.


Since you`ve been in the MMO scene long enough like i have then you must know that, unfortunately, someone will somehow find something to complain about, no matters what the devs do, no matter if they listen to feedback, someone will complain.


Bingo.

Sitting here on my PLD realizing I need about 2.6k more tomes to complete her, I'm looking at around 13 hours of mindless CM and Prae farming. Sometimes I'll switch to AK for a change of pace despite capped on myth.

Any fresh 50 will need around 5000 minimum to gear up (forgoing crafting materials). And what if you have multiple jobs that don't use the same DL armor? It's a friggin' nightmare.

If you wish to stop this speed run mentality (hint: you never will), address the source of the problem instead. When people were just entering coil and progressing through turn 1-4, I can see the need for the gear gate. Otherwise, people complete the content too fast. But now that many people are stuck on Twintania where DL gear isn't going to be helpful (only AF2 or Allagan), the rate of gathering phil. tomes should have been increased or the prices of DL gear decreased. If I'm looking at 25+ hours of CM/Prae runs just to gear a fresh 50, I'll go nuts.

There are a lot of things they could do to separate the story instances from the farming instances but they seem to be a little short on content at the moment. I'd hope we'd see daily quests here in a bit that would phil. tomes and gold pieces on completion. The reason you'll never see speed runs disappear is simply because people want to optimize their farming routine down to the second. We saw this in 11 with merit camps, we saw it in GW2 with skipping a majority of trash in EXP modes, and we've seen it in dailies/badge farming in WoW.




The main problem with people is their perception. I like the fact that SE includes very hard to get items in the game. Just like relic weapons in ffxi. They clearly weren't meant for everyone to have. But it offers something for those extremely hard core players to go after. Unfortunately no one sees it that way. Instead everyone thinks that if it is in the game, then they have to have it. And if it is really hard to obtain, they complain.

The bottom line is that you don't have to have it. And even if you really think you need it, you can work on it gradually over a longer period of time. It could be a task that you work in between other tasks that you are working on. Granted the game is new, and there probably aren't as many things to do as there will be as the game grows.


Edited, Oct 12th 2013 12:48pm by Mithsavvy
#58 Oct 12 2013 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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Please show me what difficulty is involved in running CM or Praetorium.

There isn't any. The only thing CM and Praetorium are, after the first 5 times, is tedious.

If you are telling me you don't think a PLD needs darklight for BC, I have a beach house to sell you in Idaho.
#59 Oct 12 2013 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
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So when will this hotfix take place?...I am sitting at 41 miner and am hoping to get to 46 soon..also it seems the higher I get as a miner the less the items sell for on market. At 46 I hope it unlocks something I can mine to make gill..
#60 Oct 12 2013 at 9:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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#61 Oct 12 2013 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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TheRebelKnight wrote:
At 46 I hope it unlocks something I can mine to make gill..


Reported for suspicion of RMT activity because you want to use a profession to make gil. Smiley: clown
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#62 Oct 13 2013 at 3:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I leveled miner because in FF11 I had a steady income of gill. On FF14 1.0 I had a steady income of gill with miner. On 2.0 it seems that so far at 41 there isn't much as a miner to make gill on. I am trying to level Blacksmith also and the Mats for it can get costly. I am on Aegis btw.. I like to by HQ stuff when I hit another level and that adds up.
#63 Oct 13 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
I'll give a very subtle hint: low level gear/mats sell well when HQd
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#64 Oct 13 2013 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Well, the whole low sale rate is directly the cause of people leveling to 50 and needing 3000 or something of an item to level up. They're just going to dump it for any price they can get on their way to the top.

With some luck and needing less items per level to go up after the fix, the items should be worth more. Ofcourse with all the undercutting, thats a long time away.
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#65 Oct 13 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
MitArgento wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Arcari wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Eh, might be a stretch to assume they'll tamed or obedient as that depends largely on the mob population and the locale itself. All the guards in magitek facility? Sure. Does that random pugil really want to run to the dragon when it's roaring in Brayfox? Probably not.

I suspect future dungeons will be designed deliberately with no safe spots to die/revive and yet more locking mechanisms akin to the doors in front of the AK bosses. Making trash more rewarding should be the biggest lesson taken from all this, though. I'll even be "that guy" and propose they be able to drop anything you could find in that dungeon's boss chests, just at a low percentage.

Edited, Oct 12th 2013 12:15am by Seriha


An (actually good) suggestion I saw on *gasp* the OF...make trash drop one, or even two tomestones per kill. I bet you people will gladly kill everything in sight then.

I don't know what would be a proper solution towards letting the new people watch story cutscenes in peace during dungeon runs, though.

While I understand the notion, I fear I've been around the MMO scene long enough to know people would complain about the "bads" being able to gear up by never actually killing a boss. And given what seems to be a curious habit of devs across games to pander to this demographic, you'll never see it even if my spiteful side would love to stick it to them.


Since you`ve been in the MMO scene long enough like i have then you must know that, unfortunately, someone will somehow find something to complain about, no matters what the devs do, no matter if they listen to feedback, someone will complain.


Bingo.

Sitting here on my PLD realizing I need about 2.6k more tomes to complete her, I'm looking at around 13 hours of mindless CM and Prae farming. Sometimes I'll switch to AK for a change of pace despite capped on myth.

Any fresh 50 will need around 5000 minimum to gear up (forgoing crafting materials). And what if you have multiple jobs that don't use the same DL armor? It's a friggin' nightmare.

If you wish to stop this speed run mentality (hint: you never will), address the source of the problem instead. When people were just entering coil and progressing through turn 1-4, I can see the need for the gear gate. Otherwise, people complete the content too fast. But now that many people are stuck on Twintania where DL gear isn't going to be helpful (only AF2 or Allagan), the rate of gathering phil. tomes should have been increased or the prices of DL gear decreased. If I'm looking at 25+ hours of CM/Prae runs just to gear a fresh 50, I'll go nuts.

There are a lot of things they could do to separate the story instances from the farming instances but they seem to be a little short on content at the moment. I'd hope we'd see daily quests here in a bit that would phil. tomes and gold pieces on completion. The reason you'll never see speed runs disappear is simply because people want to optimize their farming routine down to the second. We saw this in 11 with merit camps, we saw it in GW2 with skipping a majority of trash in EXP modes, and we've seen it in dailies/badge farming in WoW.



This pretty much sums it up, although I don't think we're QUIIITE there in that timeframe yet. We're getting close though. A lot of us forum goers are pretty motivated players with at least a couple jobs at 50, maybe a couple relics even, but we're not the average player. Those guys are still getting through the story mode. I'd think by 2.1 SE will find it well past prime time to lower costs though.
#66 Oct 13 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Stupid friggen double post. Wint! Banhammer double posts!!!

Edited, Oct 13th 2013 1:07pm by Medieve
#67 Oct 13 2013 at 8:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
What I'm hoping with the "adjust the difficulty of level 50 dungeons" is that the fewer trash mobs you kill along the way, the harder everything else gets. Thus discouraging speed runs. Smiley: nodEdited, Oct 11th 2013 8:59am by Catwho


Why? It's been said before but, AK is a great example of there being absolutely no need (and no purpose) to kill all the mobs in the dungeon. Take the mobs to the left hand side of the Flayer room for example, the only reason to go back there at all is to sneak to the chest and get the Demon Brick. Otherwise it's just background noise on the way to the first boss. While personally I can't be bothered doing Sac pulls and the like, I have no problem with people doing it, because SE neglected to add value to the mobs. Punishing people who choose to bypass SE's drudgery seems draconian, at best.

WP has mobs like this too.

CM is pretty much designed with the intention of sneaking past guards at certain points anyway.

All they need to do is give people a valid reason to kill the trash.

If you end up with some jerk who expects you to know all the tricks on that run, well that's a different (personality driven) story, and there's certainly no reason to punish the majority as the result of a bad experience or two.

Thayos wrote:
Whatever they decide to do, I hope it provides incentive to let people watch cutscenes.


To be honest I was kind of scared of watching cutscenes in CM and Prae for a little while. For CM I actually ended up in a DF group where 50% of the group watched all the cutscenes. For Prae we ran a couple of FC members through the content and I took the chance to watch them on that run. Honestly though, if you still haven't watched them, just do it on your next run. 95% of the DF groups I've run with haven't had an issue with people stopping for the CS. If they do, well just watch them anyway, the worst thing that will happen is someone will lock you out of a boss fight and carry you through it :D

Edited, Oct 14th 2013 2:09am by blowfin
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#68 Oct 14 2013 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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blowfin wrote:
Catwho wrote:
What I'm hoping with the "adjust the difficulty of level 50 dungeons" is that the fewer trash mobs you kill along the way, the harder everything else gets. Thus discouraging speed runs. Smiley: nodEdited, Oct 11th 2013 8:59am by Catwho

Why? It's been said before but, AK is a great example of there being absolutely no need (and no purpose) to kill all the mobs in the dungeon. Take the mobs to the left hand side of the Flayer room for example, the only reason to go back there at all is to sneak to the chest and get the Demon Brick. Otherwise it's just background noise on the way to the first boss. While personally I can't be bothered doing Sac pulls and the like, I have no problem with people doing it, because SE neglected to add value to the mobs. Punishing people who choose to bypass SE's drudgery seems draconian, at best.

I agree with your assessment. Forcing groups to kill trash mobs does not address the issue of some players pressuring other players to skip CSs. All a change like this does is make progress take longer simply for the sake of making progress take longer.
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#69 Oct 14 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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If I get into a CM or Prae with new folks and someone tells them to skip the story, I start watching all the cutscenes just to **** with them for being douches.
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