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Question about marauder Follow

#1 Oct 16 2013 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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I asked in the class section but still no answer so maybe someone here can help. Where should I put my attribute points into as a marauder?
#2 Oct 16 2013 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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The Short answer is Vit. With that being said, I personally don't like the vit stacking, and personally like Str and Dex (Which is why I love the Heavy Darksteel Armor, I can put other stats on it as it is already capped on vit).

The number one complaint about War/Mrd has been that they are huge damage sponges. Requiring larger HP pools, and in longer fights they begin to take a toll on healers. And while I have seen number thrown in both directions, I haven't seen a clear indication one way or another what the possible stat influences are towards actual results.

But, if you have a Tomestone, or can afford the 10k Company seals for one, I would vit stack for now, and reset when something better comes along...
#3 Oct 16 2013 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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As a DD I would guess you would want to stack STR with your attribute points. However I do not have that class leveled so I cannot say for sure.

Edit: Please do not pay attention to my above post. I got my classes confused.

Edited, Oct 16th 2013 10:17am by elrocco
#4 Oct 16 2013 at 8:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Now that's a tough one. Personally, I believe that MRDs, and later, WARs live off their attack power,
which directly translates into HP recovered with their countless HP-absorption skills, so the answer
would be "STR". However, I am aware that many here and elsewhere would disagree and say "VIT",
for the simple reason that more VIT=more base HP=more HP regeneration (which is 1% of total HP
every 3 seconds, down from 2% every 3 seconds until recently).

On a sidenote, I firmly believe that MRD will ultimately branch into Dark Knight; and what else is
Dark Knight about if not raw power?

Quote:
As a DD I would guess you would want to stack STR with your attribute points. However I do not have that class leveled so I cannot say for sure.

Just that MRD is not classified as a DD, but as a tank.

Edited, Oct 16th 2013 10:13am by Rinsui
#5 Oct 16 2013 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Now that's a tough one. Personally, I believe that MRDs, and later, WARs live off their attack power,
which directly translates into HP recovered with their countless HP-absorption skills, so the answer
would be "STR". However, I am aware that many here and elsewhere would disagree and say "VIT",
for the simple reason that more VIT=more base HP=more HP regeneration (which is 1% of total HP
every 3 seconds, down from 2% every 3 seconds until recently).

On a sidenote, I firmly believe that MRD will ultimately branch into Dark Knight; and what else is
Dark Knight about if not raw power?


Quote:
As a DD I would guess you would want to stack STR with your attribute points. However I do not have that class leveled so I cannot say for sure.

Just that MRD is not classified as a DD, but as a tank.

Edited, Oct 16th 2013 10:13am by Rinsui


Thank you all for your input it did help. That's exactly what I feel is gonna happen after watching marauders for sometime now they have that feeling of a DRK in them. To be honest I'm hoping it's true cause in XI I was a DRK I loved that job.
#6 Oct 16 2013 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Glad to see I am not the only one who puts a little bit of faith in "practical" stats over "YOU NEED MORE HP"...

I have been hearing that alot lately...
#7 Oct 16 2013 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
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People forget vit does a lot more than just raise HP, with more hp (as a tank) you get stronger stoneskin, your natural regen is also stronger every 3 secs, Lustrate from sch is stronger so is sch shield (forgot name, edit: now that i think about im not sure about the sch shield).

Edited, Oct 16th 2013 11:45am by DMRosso

Edited, Oct 16th 2013 11:45am by DMRosso
#8 Oct 16 2013 at 8:52 AM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:
Glad to see I am not the only one who puts a little bit of faith in "practical" stats over "YOU NEED MORE HP"...

I have been hearing that alot lately...


Except that it isn't practical at all. Attempting to be a unique snowflake on the STR/VIT debate when it comes to Marauder/Warrior (DEX....hahaha) doesn't mean anything when math is against your argument.

Bloodbath and Storm's Path are horrendous on returns for healing; it's pathetic. Healing yourself on a swing for maybe high double digits when you're getting slammed for high 3 or low/mid 4 digit swings isn't even worth talking about when using Bloodbath. Storm's Path is even worse considering how expensive it is TP wise.

The only useful self-heal is Inner Beast and that isn't worth using without Berserk and Infuriate (so you have two back to back) because you lose the +healing from Wrath stacks.

DMRosso wrote:
Lustrate from sch is stronger so is sch shield (forgot name, edit: now that i think about im not sure about the sch shield).


Adloquium is based on the amount healed and that's affected only by the caster's MND and crit chance. Target's HP doesn't even factor in. It's pretty much just Stoneskin and Lustrate.


Edited, Oct 16th 2013 10:56am by Viertel
#9 Oct 16 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Default
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Ya, Viertel, this debate has been beaten to death now. I fully see the VIT benefits, but I also see the STR ones.
The point is that HP regen has been halved with the last update, and a good bloodbath does heal you for 10%
of your HP; also, a lot of fights contain some sort of DPS race element, and while WAR is no DD, it is a tank that
packs a bloody punch (literally) for being a tank.

The math on this one may be clear, but just as with parsers, it does not take into consideration the overall constellation
of game mechanics. If that 30 extra STR helps your group to burn down an ad just 1 AA tic faster, preventing it from
sneaking in that extra WS, it could easily mean an extra 500 HP of damage or some sort of nasty CC prevented.

Or take Garuda for example. Garuda does not hit overly hard, so damage mitigation, while certainly important, is not
the issue. But if the fight drags on for too long, you'll run out of pebbles to hide behind, and then it's bye-bye whether
you have that extra 450 HP or not. Because even if you survive the AOE burst - the rest of your team won't.

Quote:
People forget vit does a lot more than just raise HP, with more hp (as a tank) you get stronger stoneskin, your natural regen is also stronger every 3 secs, Lustrate from sch is stronger so is sch shield (forgot name, edit: now that i think about im not sure about the sch shield).


Definitely true. But I rarely see WHM stoneskin me mid-battle (it's horribly inefficient considering the MP cost), and
since we're talking MRD/WAR here, he'll not stoneskin himself either. The natural regen is a good point, but going full
VIT would give you a measly 4.5 HP every 3 seconds (90 HP per minute); I assume 30 extra STR will translate into
more than that via bloodbath alone? Lustrate is another good objection (I didn't think about, to be honest), but here
full VIT also results in an extra 90 HP healed; once, and only provided you have a SCH in your PT. The SCH shield
doesn't work, unfortunately.

TL/DR:
It's not as easy as it seems.

Edited, Oct 16th 2013 11:36am by Rinsui
#10 Oct 16 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I saw someone try a full-out STR Marauder and they did amazingly well. Not tanking-wise mind you, but as a Damage Dealer they were awesome. Crazy crit-hits and raw power. Parsed second right behind the Relic +1 Dragoon in a 8-man group. Didnt take much for him to deal with adds that DD's sometimes even struggle with, since he had high defense and more HP in general than them as well.

As a Paladin myself, i was incredibly surprised. I think i'd opt to get a full-out DD Marauder/Warrior more often in one of the DD slots.
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#11 Oct 16 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Definitely true. But I rarely see WHM stoneskin me mid-battle (it's horribly inefficient considering the MP cost)


The whms i run with use stoneskin all the time, at my health (as pld) it gives me a little bit more than an extra 1k health on a warrior with their bonus HP would go much higher.

Also if your using some sort or VOIP you can tell your whm/sch when you use Thrill of battle and make stoneskin and lustrate a lot stronger.
#12 Oct 16 2013 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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I started with full VIT until I started having some troubles keeping aggro off heavily geared DD's. I respeced to full STR, and I haven't had a problem since. I think with 30 VIT, you only gain around 300-400 HP, which for me was not a great loss. I know there are other aspects that coincide with it, but I still feel that I should be able balance out the numbers with gear upgrades and VIT materias. STR also adds to the parry rate (or % parried from a successful parry, I don't remember which.), if anybody hasn't already mentioned it. Smiley: smile

Aside from party play, the full STR makes soloing anything a joke, especially with defiance off.

From playing both, I personally like the full STR better. I have thought about splitting the points maybe in half 15/15, or maybe 10/20, but it seems like the results diminish too much away from one or the other being stacked.

One more thing to keep in mind is how you use your CD's. Thrill of Battle used at the right moment can completely negate the need for full VIT in some cases, although the returns from ToB grow even larger if you are VIT stacking, /shrug.

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#13 Oct 16 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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I routinely run dungeons as a mid level warrior 38 with my brother who heals. how much damage I mitigate seems to be very erratic whether I'm focusing on vit or str. We aren't sure either. Sometimes regen prettymuch does the job while he sits back and smokes. Other times I'm getting pwned so hard he has to spam my heals like crazy. I highly doubt a few extra vit points here or there are going to make or brake you. A well timed foresight will.

When our pick up DDs decide to run into aoe and die there is nothing I as a tank can do about that. However, I can pop limit for defense and go a bit on the offensive and kill the boss before time limit. I'm sure our tricks won't work as well endgame as midgame.
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#14 Oct 16 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Well. WAR at least wins the special price for being the only job where there actually is a point allotment debate.
#15 Oct 16 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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So you want to play a Mrd right? Well that means you're a tank, and the biggest key for one is being able to survive. Early on you might try out both and see what fits you seeing as you can always respec later (also it really doesn't matter what you put your point into at earlier levels.)

But to save you 10,000 seals let me give you some practical information. This topic has already been tested out and tossed around with Paladins too, and the general consensus is that the diminished returns on strength at later levels is in no way shape or form worth it. For those 30 points you put into strength you might see a 1% increase to your dps and parry, and that's pending it puts you over the next threshold for damage (if not you've literally wasted 30 points on a worthless stat).

Where as 30 point of vitality translates out 450 hp and even more for a warrior. (I personally like having that extra bit because later on, mostly becuse I have yet to have problems holding hate unless the Dps start getting stupid).

Also overall your gear is more important than what you put you points into, you can always try finding ways to sneak in +crit and or + dtr seeing as those stats will have more impact on your overall performance. But as I said i'll take those 30 points of vit over strength any day for practicalities sake.

Also on a final note: For practicalities sake if you're having problems holding hate, strength is not your issue (lol 1% increase)...

Reference for the maths by someone who put the time into testing all this out:

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179/#BnP
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