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#52 Oct 19 2013 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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If it is any consolation, a lot of these 'elitist asshats' are on their way out of the game anyway. The official forums are filled with whines about nothing to do at end game even after farming all their tomes and posts about leaving. These are the locust players that go from game to game beating each other to level cap and end game experience only to burn through the finite amount of content - then turn around and claim the game is unfinished, has no end game, etc. However, if a dev puts in any kind of grind to extent the content by slowing the player (ah la 10-12 years ago) then they are too traditional, not keeping up with the times, bad/lazy programming, etc. You cannot make an MMO these days without splitting the players into the locust group and the cicada group. One spawns and chews through everything they can before dying out, the other takes their time gnawing on roots and evolving in slower increments. I truly do not know why anyone would get into the MMO business other than to make a quick buck, because it just feels like a fools errand these days.
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#53 Oct 19 2013 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I think developers continue to do it because they have both a vision and a passion to put a product out there that they want to make. It's obvious that Yoshi has put a lot of effort into remaking this game. Missing Worlds comes to mind to, with their efforts to resurrect City of Heroes. Just because of the "locusts", you cannot stop doing what you love or want to do. There will always be critics and naysayers. So long as you have drive to make a product, bring it to market, and support it, you should go for it.

You cannot control the community or what it will do with and to your game. There are people that do speed runs of games, or create their own challenges with them like minimal heart Zelda runs and such. For them, that is enjoyment. They want to be first, fastest, et cetera. So even if they only buy your product and finish it long before your desired time frame, they still enjoyed that run. It's still worthwhile to have made the game.

Edit:

Archmage Callinon wrote:
My concern here is about an unreasonable standard being applied at the wrong stage of the game. I should not have to watch a video guide on Halatali in order to qualify to do Halatali. I should, however, understand basically how my class works and apply that knowledge against what I see in the dungeon. For an experienced MMO player, that's an easy trick we've been doing for years. For a new player, it'll probably take a few attempts to get it right.


Again, I am more or less trying to facilitate seeing the other side of the fence, so to speak. Realistically, you cannot expect people to carefully study every minute portion of the game with the same focus as some of us do. I, for one, do try to research as much as possible. I did not for Halatai, and I still regret my performance there, but that's on me. I knew I wasn't as fully prepared as I prefer to be for a run, especially leading it as a tank. But I would not fault a tank for the same issues. The two healers who entered did leave, one with no warning, one commenting that I was "too squishy". I wasn't undergeared, but I also wasn't in HQ. Both times they left, it was over issues created by my lack of knowledge on the dungeon pulls. Had I looked further into the dungeon, or run it as another class first, I could have done better at my role. My fiancee said I was too hard on myself, and was saying that the deaths are how we learn.

That right there shows the differential we're talking about. I, unlike some, don't hold others to the same standards I hold myself to. I would be the one explaining the boss fight before we go in for it. I understand that the dungeons are learning experiences. However, I can understand that people such as myself might carry a different view, thinking that anyone "serious" about the game should be actually looking at every dungeon in detail before running it. I totally get what you're saying and what Filth is saying. There's no real right or wrong as this is really an opinion-based issue. It's not wrong to feel like people are wasting your time because they are unprepared, and it's not wrong to feel like people should be more helpful in guiding newbies into the dungeons. They are how the people feel, and changing that is very difficult. ****, after the squishy comment, I went out and HQ'd items for my MRD, and debated leveling GLD instead. It's just about your investment level in what you do.

Edited, Oct 19th 2013 11:24am by Pawkeshup
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#54 Oct 19 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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When I ran Dynamis, the alliance leader would schedule about 10-15 minutes before Dynamis Lord to get all the ducks lined up and make sure everyone knew the role they were playing. The entire fight would last 2-3 minutes if we did it right or not (if not, because we all wiped.) You didn't get a "redo" button on Dynamis Lord. You had to wait at minimum three days, and more likely, a month, if you @#%^ed it up.

In that context, it was absolutely worth it to spend those 10 minutes reminding everyone of the strategy, even if everyone had already looked it up prior to the fight.

Two alliances. 36 people - a DPS and tanking/control alliance, and a backline alliance of BLMs and RDMs.

1. MNKst start boosting.
2. BRDs Soul Voice and start rotation
3. THF puller pops flee and grabs DL and the dragons
4. THF gives DL to a waiting PLD who uses Invincible and hits it and vokes it
5. THF drags the dragons far, far away and dies
6. 2nd PLD vokes. In the meantime, everyone starts waiting on him and hopes to get him down before he splits into clones
7. Clones usually spawn near the end anyway and kill the PLDs, all the MNKs and other DDs. 2nd PLD invincibles in time, hopefully.
8. All this time the BLMs on the ledge have been nuking. Dead PLDs = DL teleporting up to them
9. BLMs kill him if DDs didn't before he wiped

In a flawless run, DL would be toast before he split into clones or the 2nd PLD died.

Edited, Oct 19th 2013 11:15am by Catwho
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#55 Oct 19 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
The tank we got seemed nice enough at first, but he quickly grew frustrated with the newbie DPS, and abandoned us after the third wave of mobs. Instead of taking the time to explain how to play to someone who, judging from his gear, was still relatively new to the game, the tank just left. "Learn to play," he said, and was gone.

Composure and expectations. Expectations are the root of most conflicts. The tank was nice when everything was going how he wanted. When things were not, he ejected. How in the world will people trust and listen to them if they bail and criticize at the first signs of difficulty?

Catwho wrote:
Instead of calling someone a noob, if you're on a tank job in a low level dungeon, give someone some coaching. Don't be condescending, but explain how hate mechanics work. You'll end up with better DPS in thirty levels that way if you train 'em up early. If you just turn into a princess and leave mid-run, you're not making any friends and you're certainly not going to get better DPS in the long run.

Whether they help people learn or not is up to the individual. However, I know that talking to others as human beings with feelings should come before anything else. Otherwise regardless of what you are trying to accomplish, you set up failure for yourself by being condescending with others. Hitler or Ghandi? You may TRY AND DO as Hitler says, but not with an open heart. And you would probably **** up more due to being afraid of messing up.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I wouldn't have a problem with giving advice if it were a rare occurrence, but it's not. Far from it. Coaching and explaining encounters to people only encourages them to show up to the next dungeon unprepared. Essentially you're giving a man a fish. I just give them the link above and they can feed themselves. Smiley: nod

It's not a rare occurrence and it never will be. That's how life is, it doesn't care if it inconveniences you. You either accept what is but plan how to move it towards convenience(rest of your life) or check out and complain about how life isn't fair and be miserable in the process. Yes, everyone should read up on things but not everyone will.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Queue is like applying for a job. You select a role that you think you're qualified for and when 'hired', you're expected to perform that role. You don't show up to a job interview when they expect their prospective employees to have experience and just say "Train me on the job". It's a waste of their time, a waste of their money and by showing that you went out and got experience(or in this case, looked up the critical info you need) you are basically showing them you're at least serious.

Not really. You apply to jobs you want whether you are qualified or not. Employers don't expect, they require proof. And regardless of your past experience, you will still require on the job training as each workplace has different methods.

It's more like a walk-in on the spot hire. Guilds would be more of what you are implying.

HitomeOfBismark wrote:
What do you find to be a reasonable number of attempts before you decide to call it quits without being labeled a princess?

That's up to you and no matter what people say shouldn't dictate that. For me it would be when I shared, explored, and put into action multiple ideas with my group and we still fail. Not always, but sometimes even when I am thinking we may fail. I stick around just to see if my group can surprise me. I get excited!

If you feel deep down you tried your best but it just didn't pan out. Walk away, but do it gracefully.

#56 Oct 19 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Default
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Quor wrote:
Queue is like a job?

You realize this is a game, right?


Google 'metaphor'.

Yes, this is a game. A game where people apply to guilds, linkshells and FC just like you would apply to a job. You list your experience and qualifications and if they're good enough, you get 'hired'. If you can't put the rest of the pieces together on your own then you're beyond my help.


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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#57Queen EmmanuellaLima, Posted: Oct 19 2013 at 8:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That's because games are dumbed down for fake casual players. No such thing as a casual player, when FF11 started people worked and had kids. US games that are dumbed down for the US players that want it all now. Relic and AF in 3 weeks times for most players. Something that would take months or years on the first MMO. People basically make it seem like garbage gear.
#58 Oct 19 2013 at 10:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
That's because games are dumbed down for fake casual players. No such thing as a casual player, when FF11 started people worked and had kids. US games that are dumbed down for the US players that want it all now. Relic and AF in 3 weeks times for most players. Something that would take months or years on the first MMO. People basically make it seem like garbage gear.


It's hard to believe you bought a premium sub just to troll... yet here you are.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Yes, this is a game. A game where people apply to guilds, linkshells and FC just like you would apply to a job. You list your experience and qualifications and if they're good enough, you get 'hired'. If you can't put the rest of the pieces together on your own then you're beyond my help.


True, people apply to those things. That has nothing to do with random queues for content.
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#59 Oct 20 2013 at 1:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Yes, this is a game. A game where people apply to guilds, linkshells and FC just like you would apply to a job. You list your experience and qualifications and if they're good enough, you get 'hired'. If you can't put the rest of the pieces together on your own then you're beyond my help.


True, people apply to those things. That has nothing to do with random queues for content.


You're more likely to be successful if you understand the mechanics of the game, the mechanics of the encounter and show up to a group with a clue. That's all I'm saying. If you wanna be the guy who just goes through knowing you have to stand somewhere, but not knowing why... that's on you. If you're that person who sees a meter filling on their party UI, but has no idea what it means, feel free Smiley: tongue

Edited, Oct 20th 2013 3:56am by FilthMcNasty
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Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#60 Oct 20 2013 at 4:11 AM Rating: Good
Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
That's because games are dumbed down for fake casual players. No such thing as a casual player, when FF11 started people worked and had kids. US games that are dumbed down for the US players that want it all now. Relic and AF in 3 weeks times for most players. Something that would take months or years on the first MMO. People basically make it seem like garbage gear.


I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing hard about FFXI or any other MMO back in the day. Once you amassed the people needed for said event, things were a cakewalk. People will say that was the challenge, finding these people, but the game itself was not challenging. Time wasting? You betcha, hard, no.

The only reason gear was "hard" to obtain is because they put ridiculous limits on what could be done in a certain amount of time with most events. Dynamis, Salvage, Kings, etc. Even Sky, only reason you wasted so much time is because there was only one NM for each item, then a 15 min timer in between gods. Limiting the number of runs you could in X amount of time.
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#61 Oct 20 2013 at 6:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
That's because games are dumbed down for fake casual players. No such thing as a casual player, when FF11 started people worked and had kids. US games that are dumbed down for the US players that want it all now. Relic and AF in 3 weeks times for most players. Something that would take months or years on the first MMO. People basically make it seem like garbage gear.


I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing hard about FFXI or any other MMO back in the day. Once you amassed the people needed for said event, things were a cakewalk. People will say that was the challenge, finding these people, but the game itself was not challenging. Time wasting? You betcha, hard, no.

The only reason gear was "hard" to obtain is because they put ridiculous limits on what could be done in a certain amount of time with most events. Dynamis, Salvage, Kings, etc. Even Sky, only reason you wasted so much time is because there was only one NM for each item, then a 15 min timer in between gods. Limiting the number of runs you could in X amount of time.


Ummm yeah ffxi had a lot of time wasting stuff, but there were thing in it that were just down right hard if you had people or not. Like divine might, salvage, lots of cop missions, einherjar finding the people to do them was never hard winning was

Edited, Oct 20th 2013 11:15am by domice
#62 Oct 20 2013 at 6:36 AM Rating: Default
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I was not trying to troll, I was speaking my mind. I was an elite endgame leader from 2003 and up. How nasty they act and most do not know what they doing. The game needs a revamp again. Go to other forums and make any comment about the game looking anything like FFXI. They will trash you none stop. I paid to get rid of the ads. I had to plan weekends and months ahead of time for events to get people access to places and other events. Then I had to find people I could trust to lead HNM runs and hold gil for players in different time zones. 2 to 4 hours is a normal player not a casual player. Casual to me is 15 to 30 minutes. They have smartphones that have MMORPG that if you want casual you can play it.

I am use to testing a players skill to see what level they have. Which if its bad, that meant they needed to go out with other linkshell members. Party together and learn each other playing style. I have been on Arcanist and they wipe because they do not want to listen. The tank can have no real gear on which means I need to back the healer up. He will die and the healer will take on to much hate from spam healing. SE made this game that its telling you the role and its the only role. However, its sitting with resurrection and other heals. SE revamp some jobs that they are perfect now. Summoner being one of them. No running across a zone to do a HNM solo. You can sit and control everything right their.

I've tried to teach people things in dungeons that could make them wipe and they do not care. You get the warnings from them not handling regular mobs correctly. I dare you tell a tank or healer what they are doing wrong. You will get cussed out in that dungeon so fast.
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#63Queen EmmanuellaLima, Posted: Oct 20 2013 at 6:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I have not been back before 75 went 99. I do not know what it is like now. I got engaged to a guy I met on the game in real life. This game has no party system unless its a dungeon.
#64 Oct 20 2013 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
I was not trying to troll


Screenshot


You ***** about this game like you hate it, yet you paid for an account to post here to eliminate ads (meaning that you want to spend time here)... But you're not trolling. Oh, and you're stunned by the fact that people don't greet you with welcome arms when you compare the game to FFXI... but yet that's how you post. I don't think it's you comparing the game. I think it's you. You need to realize that your posts are virtual garbage, useless whining, utter wastes of digital space. That's more why you are receiving a backlash.
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#65 Oct 20 2013 at 8:40 AM Rating: Default
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I paid because no ads and you can make your own avatar. I played the game since beta 3 and 4. I saw that the game could go into the DC Universe Online route with not having to learn. They would rush the game and use gear as back up for bad play. No one has to accept me with open arms. This game does not work like a community. This game copied a few things from games that went free to play. I already paid 180 days so I am just saying how I feel.

I have tried to help people on this game. I have even offered to buy them gear when they do not have any. Some take it as offensive to help or give money. I have done dungeons where we have good gear. Tank does not have any real gear at all. This one person looted everything and won over the tanks need. Which I do not know if they are using the old day hacks.

How I responded in the post should have been more respectful. After I read it over again and seeing that there are other women in this forum then myself. I should have taken the time to write a proper post. My backlashes on the other sites were not from me rude like this. I was very polite and asked questioned. My attitude I gave off is from being nice and having backlash for no reason. They bash all FFXI players on the other forums. ZAM is a old forum and I came back to it. Killingifrit.com seems to have died off a little.

I already have sent apologies to the other women I might have offended. I am sorry if I offended you as well. I hope you can forgive me for seeming disrespectful to you.
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#66 Oct 20 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:


I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing hard about FFXI or any other MMO back in the day. Once you amassed the people needed for said event, things were a cakewalk. People will say that was the challenge, finding these people, but the game itself was not challenging. Time wasting? You betcha, hard, no.

The only reason gear was "hard" to obtain is because they put ridiculous limits on what could be done in a certain amount of time with most events. Dynamis, Salvage, Kings, etc. Even Sky, only reason you wasted so much time is because there was only one NM for each item, then a 15 min timer in between gods. Limiting the number of runs you could in X amount of time.


That's not true either. FFXI's content was mostly affected by those things, but you're forgetting the long drawn out fights with kiting Kirin. It makes Titan HM look like a cakewalk by comparison. Odin, AV, PW, content like 6-4 airship before they nerfed it. None of those things listed had to do with finding people. Those fights were freaking hard, no way around it. I could list more, but I've proved you wrong already so I'll stop.
#67 Oct 20 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:


I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing hard about FFXI or any other MMO back in the day. Once you amassed the people needed for said event, things were a cakewalk. People will say that was the challenge, finding these people, but the game itself was not challenging. Time wasting? You betcha, hard, no.

The only reason gear was "hard" to obtain is because they put ridiculous limits on what could be done in a certain amount of time with most events. Dynamis, Salvage, Kings, etc. Even Sky, only reason you wasted so much time is because there was only one NM for each item, then a 15 min timer in between gods. Limiting the number of runs you could in X amount of time.


That's not true either. FFXI's content was mostly affected by those things, but you're forgetting the long drawn out fights with kiting Kirin. It makes Titan HM look like a cakewalk by comparison. Odin, AV, PW, content like 6-4 airship before they nerfed it. None of those things listed had to do with finding people. Those fights were freaking hard, no way around it. I could list more, but I've proved you wrong already so I'll stop.


Who the **** lost to Kirin, ever? 6-4 took about two tries. AV was beaten easily once they moddified how she worked, same with PW. AV was never meant to be taken down initially. Again, hardest time I had with these fights was finding time to farm the pop items. They're all the same as the XIV primals, gimmicky, but with pop requirements. People find the primals easy cause you can spam them 100 times in a day. Do the same for any FFXI mob and I can assure you'd be saying, man this is easy, I know exactly when PW is gonna do this next atk.
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#68 Oct 20 2013 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Depends on what year you did Kirin. You have to remember the game changed easier down the line. Kirin got to the point where people zerged it and it was 2 to 4 minute fight. AV got nerfed; first linkshell to beat it was Apathy. I was their watching the whole thing; they had it pinned through a glitch through a wall. The leader was on the other side to get the drops when it happened. The whole server that had Sea access was their. Sea got nerfed as well because it was dead before that. Sea was deadly for along time because no linkshells. HNM running free all the time.

They nerfed XI hardcore by the time the 3rd DLC came out. No one would leave the white gate area to even play the forth DLC. The forth DLC went back to the original game play. You would only see people doing the ballista type Pvp. They nerfed the skill leveling system. You did not have to spend a lot of time focusing on leveling the skills at all. They nerfed how much exp it took you to level twice. Level fifty-five made it that bad players could not get past it.

It depends did you do this 2002 to 2004 or 2005 and up. When the game was losing people fast to WoW. They were trying their best to change the game fast enough to compete. The game got to the point you could zerge every HNM that made elite linkshells drop like flies. Everyone was able to do all of the endgame. Tons of jobs got super buffs doing a ten-year period. Forgot, some HNM got set to a hour before they raged later in the game. Skilled players could solo or do them in low groups and people complained.
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#69 Oct 20 2013 at 4:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Got a story:
I entered Haukke Manor as a Pugilist, my significant other as Arcanist, the other two were Gladiator and Scholar.

We introduce ourselves with the common courtesy of Hello. I ask if anyone has any questions on the dungeon, and get a No from everyone. We engage the first two set of monsters and the scholar and gladiator begin having a friendly conversation about Jay Wilson getting fired and joking around. The tank goes on to say he is multi-tasking playing Pokemon and reading the news. Then he dies...

I don't know if this was a mistype or on purpose, but he says"Why do I always get grouped up with the ****** healers in dungeons.."
The healer explains their cat spilled coke all over their keyboard and they are sorry for the death. From there tank goes off on a tangent about the healer being a noob, fat loser, lives in their mom's house, etc,etc. The healer responds more civil but the argument goes back and forth twenty minutes. The dungeon is at a standstill!

Finally I mediate enough for them to calm down enough to continue the dungeon.(Felt relieved!) We pull a couple more and then it starts anew. Tank accuses healer of not healing. I don't know if there was truth to that or not but he wasn't dying. At every mid-boss the tank doesn't enter and gets locked out. We win and advance further.

We get to the end boss. A delay happens again. By this time tank is going off on everyone, yet still I never waiver and try and help us get this done. We go in without him out of boredom. ANDDDDDD
we WIN! The tank half apologized and we all went our separate ways.

Morale of the story: Who was right? In my opinion it doesn't matter. The healer got to prove the were not a noob and the tank learned a bit of of humility. As for the rest of us? We got entertainment and in the end is it was all words. At least those two both stuck around for the duration without ejecting. Other than the fat homeless comments, I wasn't quite sure if they were flirting or hated each other. It's a thin line.
#70 Oct 20 2013 at 9:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:

Who the **** lost to Kirin, ever? 6-4 took about two tries. AV was beaten easily once they moddified how she worked, same with PW. AV was never meant to be taken down initially. Again, hardest time I had with these fights was finding time to farm the pop items. They're all the same as the XIV primals, gimmicky, but with pop requirements. People find the primals easy cause you can spam them 100 times in a day. Do the same for any FFXI mob and I can assure you'd be saying, man this is easy, I know exactly when PW is gonna do this next atk.


You really don't want me to answer this question. Kirin was a very hard endgame boss for the majority of FFXI linkshells. It wasn't until they began to burn him down did he get easier for the majority of the playerbase. As someone who kited Kirin for hours even with pre-nerf Rangers trying to take him down, Kirin days sucked. You can't tell me that fighting Titan is harder than Kirin? If you wipe, you simply reset and try again with full life and no downtime. If you wiped with Kirin, you probably had it stolen or worse had to zombie it.

AV and PW were never easily beaten either, not at the lv75 cap. Please don't alter history to win an argument with someone else. Maybe your LS did well on these HNM, but that was the exception, not the rule.

FFXI mobs would be easier too if you had unlimited chances per day to win. The fact you don't so your point is moot and dismissed.
#71 Oct 20 2013 at 9:58 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I was not trying to troll, I was speaking my mind.


Unfortunately having an opinion around here that differs from the hive-mind often ends up in accusations of trolling, as if you were trying to eat babies.

It's one of those things where if it gets repeated enough most people will believe it to be true. However, this isn't a biased media site where you'd usually find that kind of thing, it's just other people's agendas getting in the way (and a little bit of new poster bullying by the look of it).


To counter the sentiment in this thread, I had a perfect DF Halitali run last night as a DPS. I'm not aware of this "plague on the community" that people are speaking of. While it's true that people shouldn't be jerks, that's common sense. I think the scale of issues like the one mentioned is largely inflated by people to bolster their diatribes. Are we all that thin-skinned that we can't deal with the occasional obnoxious person?
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#72 Oct 20 2013 at 11:19 PM Rating: Decent
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:

Who the **** lost to Kirin, ever? 6-4 took about two tries. AV was beaten easily once they moddified how she worked, same with PW. AV was never meant to be taken down initially. Again, hardest time I had with these fights was finding time to farm the pop items. They're all the same as the XIV primals, gimmicky, but with pop requirements. People find the primals easy cause you can spam them 100 times in a day. Do the same for any FFXI mob and I can assure you'd be saying, man this is easy, I know exactly when PW is gonna do this next atk.


You really don't want me to answer this question. Kirin was a very hard endgame boss for the majority of FFXI linkshells. It wasn't until they began to burn him down did he get easier for the majority of the playerbase. As someone who kited Kirin for hours even with pre-nerf Rangers trying to take him down, Kirin days sucked. You can't tell me that fighting Titan is harder than Kirin? If you wipe, you simply reset and try again with full life and no downtime. If you wiped with Kirin, you probably had it stolen or worse had to zombie it.

AV and PW were never easily beaten either, not at the lv75 cap. Please don't alter history to win an argument with someone else. Maybe your LS did well on these HNM, but that was the exception, not the rule.

FFXI mobs would be easier too if you had unlimited chances per day to win. The fact you don't so your point is moot and dismissed.


So you incorporate getting pops and having to try again weakened OR with another pop set as hard? Right. There's clearly no sense arguing here, if that's your definition of hard...along with kiting...wow. Forget comparing the ACTUAL boss fight itself fight for fight. Not the way to get to it and reset it. Anyways, I think were done here as someone had difficulty with Kirin, but not Titan.

Just compare it, fight for fight. If you could fight both 100 times in a row, which would be harder? Neither, they're the same stupid mechanics.

Edited, Oct 21st 2013 1:25am by Montsegurnephcreep
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#73 Oct 20 2013 at 11:21 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Unfortunately having an opinion around here that differs from the hive-mind often ends up in accusations of trolling, as if you were trying to eat babies.


Smiley: dubious

Her first sentence:
Quote:
That's because games are dumbed down for fake casual players.


There's no way to interpret that other than "I'm trying to get a rise out of people by saying something inflammatory." It didn't improve from there. That's troll behavior. I'll accept her later statement that she didn't intend to do that (sort of), but that's what happened. Nothing to do with the "hive mind." Everything to do with forum etiquette.

I also reject the notion that FFXI was somehow inherently superior because people were worse at MMORPGs eleven years ago. Kiting Kirin was hard. Kirin became easy when the strategy was changed. Ergo, you were doing Kirin incorrectly. Absolute Virtue wasn't intended to be defeated (and indeed the first kill required cheating). SE changed the encounter to make it winnable after that. It isn't a matter of that game getting easier (although it did over time), you just got better at playing it.

Comparisons between modern and older games nearly always fail to take into account the fact that the players have steadily improved their own skills and have gotten better at playing the games themselves. The biggest change between then and now is the reduction or elimination of ridiculous time sinks, nothing more. Time investment != difficulty. Therefore time spent != skill.
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#74 Oct 21 2013 at 12:01 AM Rating: Default
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:


So you incorporate getting pops and having to try again weakened OR with another pop set as hard? Right. There's clearly no sense arguing here, if that's your definition of hard...along with kiting...wow. Forget comparing the ACTUAL boss fight itself fight for fight. Not the way to get to it and reset it. Anyways, I think were done here as someone had difficulty with Kirin, but not Titan.

Just compare it, fight for fight. If you could fight both 100 times in a row, which would be harder? Neither, they're the same stupid mechanics.



You're putting words in my mouth. I won't be bullied by you. I'm done, go fight with someone else.
#75 Oct 21 2013 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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Just had myself a nice run in with one of these princess tanks, calls himself Dash Berlin. I queued up for WP and got into a group where the tank and DD left the second they found out it's the other two's first time in WP. Princess over here decided to not be helpful at all, and yell at everyone when things go wrong, even though they probably have no idea what to even do due to being new to it.

God, a vote-kick feature can't come soon enough...
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#76 Oct 21 2013 at 1:33 AM Rating: Excellent


I must admit, as a paladin, I abandoned a DF party today for my first time. We were only about 10 minutes in, but it was already a disaster. The whm was admittedly drunk, and would do nothing for periods of time while people died. I left because we literally had no chance of winning, and I knew I would get a better party after 15 minutes.

I was right, and breezed to victory with my next party.
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#77 Oct 21 2013 at 4:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:


I must admit, as a paladin, I abandoned a DF party today for my first time. We were only about 10 minutes in, but it was already a disaster. The whm was admittedly drunk, and would do nothing for periods of time while people died. I left because we literally had no chance of winning, and I knew I would get a better party after 15 minutes.

I was right, and breezed to victory with my next party.


Why didnt you drink too then? Probably you would have used the same strategy as the whm, which would lead to a sucsessful run? You never know until you try it out. . . :-P
( Have not left a party yet, but i would definitely if people get too rude. )
#78 Oct 21 2013 at 4:32 AM Rating: Default
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I said fake casual players because that is what it is. Two to four hours is a normal player. It was a normal player back in 2003. Linkshells had players from all time zones for players that did two to four hours. You set up events for the players to get gear and items they needed. Casual to me is 15 to 30 minutes. Adults played the games then and now. They had wives, husbands, and kids. They had boyfriends and girlfriends.

It takes time to do anything you want to do. Fake casual players take advantage of games. Leveling to the top fast and getting all the gear in a week. Screaming no endgame and screaming a role sucks because they rushed through the roles. Every MMO seems to go this route and ruin their games. With FF14, it would not bother me if I have to play, as I like. The fake casual have set the standards now that you have to go by their standards.

Do you really think people will pay monthly for a bad community? They are not allowed to play as they please. Part of it being a bad community is making the game mostly solo until dungeons for the main story or endgame. A real casual player could careless about the endgame in the game period. They rarely touch the games. They still always have fun and let you have fun with them.
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#79 Oct 21 2013 at 4:45 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:


I must admit, as a paladin, I abandoned a DF party today for my first time. We were only about 10 minutes in, but it was already a disaster. The whm was admittedly drunk, and would do nothing for periods of time while people died. I left because we literally had no chance of winning, and I knew I would get a better party after 15 minutes.

I was right, and breezed to victory with my next party.

Exactly, sometimes you just know that people wont be able to get past a dungeon. And just because you as a Paladin happen to come to that conclusion first that time and left first, you would be deemed a "princess tank"? Such rubbish.

I've not left a lot of runs myself. Nor do i overly care about people's classes/jobs and/or gear. But sometimes you just have to know when to call it quits. It's usually not the tank's fault, or anyone's really.

I've tanked plenty of AK runs since i hit the 50's. The last couple of weeks with a relic weapon even, but that shouldnt make me a "Princess Tank" when during or after the first Tentacle boss i come to realize that we're barely putting a dent in the trash mobs, taking 3-4 times as long on them as i would have liked. Or even people not focussing and hitting whatever, where-ever they can. The first person to leave after putting one and one together and coming to the conclusion that this group is NEVER going to be able to get past Demonwall, no matter how much coordinating and effort you would put into it, is apparently automatically deemed as the "badguy" here in the topic.

Tanks, (and while we're at it, other members), dont leave parties because they dont like a little effort and challenge in their groups, they leave because (1) the group isn't going to be able to beat the dungeon no matter how much work is put in, or (2) someone in the party is being a major **** about something and the entire atmosphere is ruined because of it.

Just because you as a Tank would be able to instantly queue into another group, and the remaining members would not be able to do the same, shouldnt mean that you arent allowed to leave a party if something isn't to your liking. What kind of a world do people think we live in where we'd basicly be told to "suck it up" and be forced to stay in a group to wipe 5-6 times before it all falls apart, when you could easily see this comming.
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#80 Oct 21 2013 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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On a slightly princess tank related topic.

Dyed my PLD's armor pink
Did level 30 brayflox long step all weekend to go from 30 to 35 and help 40 + people finish their first clears.
Gained a full suit of the tank armor from there.

Princess tank .....doing it right.
#81 Oct 21 2013 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tubrudi wrote:
Just had myself a nice run in with one of these princess tanks, calls himself Dash Berlin. I queued up for WP and got into a group where the tank and DD left the second they found out it's the other two's first time in WP. Princess over here decided to not be helpful at all, and yell at everyone when things go wrong, even though they probably have no idea what to even do due to being new to it.

God, a vote-kick feature can't come soon enough...


Actually, that sounds about right for Dash "Cash" Berlin Smiley: lol (He's a trance producer and he was mocked for requesting the highest amount any DJ has ever asked for to play at Armin Van Buuren's ASOT *50 party, earning him a lot of scorn and derision from other DJs for having an inflated opinion of his own worth.)

KojiroSoma wrote:
Tanks, (and while we're at it, other members), dont leave parties because they dont like a little effort and challenge in their groups, they leave because (1) the group isn't going to be able to beat the dungeon no matter how much work is put in, or (2) someone in the party is being a major **** about something and the entire atmosphere is ruined because of it.


And when a group goes on to win a dungeon after the tank has left, with or without a replacement, it just goes to show the tank was being a princess after all.

On Kirin: Kirin was hard in 2004. Kirin was much less hard in 2006. Kirin was a joke by 2008. At that point, the hardest part of beating Kirin was getting everyone past the pot room.

But Kirin was hard, hard, hard in 2004, because people hadn't figured out how to beat him before he started spawning babies yet. That meant a PLD or two kiting him around while he spawned the other four gods in succession and one alliance beat down on those. Once the babies were dead, the alliance would reform and start picking away at him. By 2006 players had discovered that his defenses were really not so bad if you could pin him down, and the standard setup was BRD x3 WHM x3 DDx11 with a RDM chainspell stunner. WHMs used Benediction as soon as Kirin 2-houred, and the alliance continued to beat him down. Whole thing took less than a minute.

The gear difference between 2004 and 2008 cannot be stressed enough. More people actually had {sky} gear, {sea} gear, and Dynamis/Limbus gear. ToAU gear greatly improved the base level for players as well. So what was a cakewalk for a single alliance in 2008 was really, really tough in 2004.

Edited, Oct 21st 2013 9:47am by Catwho
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#82 Oct 21 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I mean, is this the first online game some of you have played? Did none of you play WoW? People are ****** like huge ****** and elitest jerks who think they are better then everyone else and don't give two ***** about helping people out, get over it.

I ran a dungeon the other night with a so called "Princess" tank in Darkhold. I just ignored his stupid *** and he stfu after awhile and we cleared the dungeon.

Like really, if you run into a **** in game, just ignore him or drop group or whatever you have to do, move on, and write if off as a bad experience. Honestly, IMO, by letting it bother you so much, your just letting them win.

Here's a tip, turn you general chat, or shout, or whatever its called off unless you really need it for something. Then you don't see all the stupid **** people are asking for. The only thing I have on in my chat box is LS and FC chat. Like I really don't see this so called Plague that everyone is talking about, but its probably because I only talk to people in my FC and don't let random asshat strangers I don't know effect me that much.

And now I'm going to go out on a limb and be a huge **** myself, and you can all flame me for it, but I am soo sick of hearing about FFXI, not just on here but in game also. I'm pretty sure the game we are playing is called FFXIV. I get it, FFXI was the hardest game ever, its like walking uphill in 320078955646796078543000 feet of snow to school and nothing will ever compare to it, super, cool story. "Like OMG you think Titan HM is hard????? U Should have tried Ilidan or Lich King HM LOLZ, now that's HM OMG nubckaes!!!! stupid casuals and your hand out epics" (and now enter the OMG Lich King was not hard crowd) I watched a friend try to play FFXI, and honestly, it looked horrid and he dropped it after about a month. It could be just me, but I think the majority of the world doesn't want another super grind mode game, and unfortunately the majority rules. Hate me if you want, but guess what, its a new game, and I think its an awesome game, so get over it. I'm sorry if this offended you, but I felt the need to get it off my chest.
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#83 Oct 21 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
I was not trying to troll


Screenshot


You ***** about this game like you hate it, yet you paid for an account to post here to eliminate ads (meaning that you want to spend time here)... But you're not trolling. Oh, and you're stunned by the fact that people don't greet you with welcome arms when you compare the game to FFXI... but yet that's how you post. I don't think it's you comparing the game. I think it's you. You need to realize that your posts are virtual garbage, useless whining, utter wastes of digital space. That's more why you are receiving a backlash.


Woah a new Troll has joined us while I was away. Hi there! Your post is super amusing. :D

Start out the post with, "I was not trying to troll."

Then you immediately post a video that only a true troll has in their video library. "Oh, no you didn't!" Snap a Z girl. Bam!

The post then takes a nose dive, starting out with, "You ***** about.... blah blah blah - TLDR".

Anyway, thanks for joining in here. We were getting light on trolls and it's always more fun when someone is spewing hateful nonsense that you have to dodge.

AHHHHHH! Watch out for the AoE nonsense - Don't stand in the red circle of gibberish!

So ya, you just started my Monday off with a big laugh. Thanks so much! :)
#84 Oct 21 2013 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jeskradha wrote:
And now I'm going to go out on a limb and be a huge **** myself, and you can all flame me for it, but I am soo sick of hearing about FFXI, not just on here but in game also. I'm pretty sure the game we are playing is called FFXIV. I get it, FFXI was the hardest game ever, its like walking uphill in 320078955646796078543000 feet of snow to school and nothing will ever compare to it, super, cool story. "Like OMG you think Titan HM is hard????? U Should have tried Ilidan or Lich King HM LOLZ, now that's HM OMG nubckaes!!!! stupid casuals and your hand out epics" (and now enter the OMG Lich King was not hard crowd) I watched a friend try to play FFXI, and honestly, it looked horrid and he dropped it after about a month. It could be just me, but I think the majority of the world doesn't want another super grind mode game, and unfortunately the majority rules. Hate me if you want, but guess what, its a new game, and I think its an awesome game, so get over it. I'm sorry if this offended you, but I felt the need to get it off my chest.


Not offended and it's a valid point to bring up. FFXI keeps popping up because some of us ate, slept, lived, and breathed that game for years on end. I still log on a couple times a week to work on storyline stuff and hang out with friends.

It's hard to stop thinking about and comparing to something that dominated your life for a significant portion of your twenties.
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Thayos wrote:
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FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#85 Oct 21 2013 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not offended and it's a valid point to bring up. FFXI keeps popping up because some of us ate, slept, lived, and breathed that game for years on end. I still log on a couple times a week to work on storyline stuff and hang out with friends.


I did that too. I'm not playing that game anymore.

While I realize that comparisons are inevitable, the sheer magnitude of false equivalency that goes on between FFXI and FFXIV is staggering. For instance... just because both weapons are called "relic" does not make them the same. They're different games, the term was just re-used.

For the record, here are some other terms that have been re-used and mean something different now:
- Materia
- Job
- Limit Break
- Weapon Skill
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#86 Oct 21 2013 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Jeskradha wrote:

And now I'm going to go out on a limb and be a huge **** myself, and you can all flame me for it, but I am soo sick of hearing about FFXI,


agree. not sure why some people feel the need to reference FFXI constantly, in some cases making complete non-sequitor posts.

also sort of on topic, the most fun i had in dungeons was in the first weeks, in DF groups where no one knew what to expect because there were no guides or no one had read them. much more satisfying and way more fun.
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#87 Oct 21 2013 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:

Not offended and it's a valid point to bring up. FFXI keeps popping up because some of us ate, slept, lived, and breathed that game for years on end. I still log on a couple times a week to work on storyline stuff and hang out with friends.

It's hard to stop thinking about and comparing to something that dominated your life for a significant portion of your twenties.


Yeah, Me and a friend who played WoW together were discussing the fact that its like almost impossible to play a MMO any more and not subconsciously compare it to WoW in some way. I'm the same way with WoW, it pretty much dominated 7 years of my life for the most part.


Archmage Callinon wrote:

While I realize that comparisons are inevitable, the sheer magnitude of false equivalency that goes on between FFXI and FFXIV is staggering. For instance... just because both weapons are called "relic" does not make them the same. They're different games, the term was just re-used.


I think this is probably what bothers me the most. Like, its not the same game, ugh, I dunno, I was also in a ***** mood this morning and then reading through this tread there is like 5000 posts about FFXI.

I guess what bothers me the most is I really like this game a lot and it gets annoying watching people rip it cause they zerged to end game in 2 days and they are bored now or because they are longing for some re vamp of an old game they used to play. Like I did CM and Prea for the first time last night and even though it was through the DF and I skipped the majority of the CS, which I don't care cause I'll just watch them later, it was the most fun I've had in an MMO in a long long time, like since Burning Crusade.
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#88 Oct 21 2013 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:


I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing hard about FFXI or any other MMO back in the day. Once you amassed the people needed for said event, things were a cakewalk. People will say that was the challenge, finding these people, but the game itself was not challenging. Time wasting? You betcha, hard, no.

The only reason gear was "hard" to obtain is because they put ridiculous limits on what could be done in a certain amount of time with most events. Dynamis, Salvage, Kings, etc. Even Sky, only reason you wasted so much time is because there was only one NM for each item, then a 15 min timer in between gods. Limiting the number of runs you could in X amount of time.


That's not true either. FFXI's content was mostly affected by those things, but you're forgetting the long drawn out fights with kiting Kirin. It makes Titan HM look like a cakewalk by comparison. Odin, AV, PW, content like 6-4 airship before they nerfed it. None of those things listed had to do with finding people. Those fights were freaking hard, no way around it. I could list more, but I've proved you wrong already so I'll stop.


Uh, no. Kirin was long, not hard. Time != difficulty.

You kited Kirin... and that was hard how? You ran around a *gigantic* arena that gave you more than enough time to run away from anything he casts, you're out of melee range so you didn't have to worry about any of his TP moves, and your only danger (Sleep) was easily combated by a WHM / RDM running ahead of you and removing it or using a poison pot. The rest of your group literally zerged the **** out of the lesser gods when they spawned and then you whittled Kirin down. With all the kiting damage on him was slow and there was zero possibility of losing hate since you didn't take much/any damage (therefore CE eventually capped), and the time between their attacks allowed their VE to decay.

Not to mention, in the rare event you died (healer's asleep at the wheel apparently) there's one or two others to pick up your slack until you're raised and can go again. Infinite re-tries!

So....what's "hard" again? Not falling asleep, that's what.

ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Who the **** lost to Kirin, ever? 6-4 took about two tries. AV was beaten easily once they moddified how she worked, same with PW. AV was never meant to be taken down initially. Again, hardest time I had with these fights was finding time to farm the pop items. They're all the same as the XIV primals, gimmicky, but with pop requirements. People find the primals easy cause you can spam them 100 times in a day. Do the same for any FFXI mob and I can assure you'd be saying, man this is easy, I know exactly when PW is gonna do this next atk.


You really don't want me to answer this question. Kirin was a very hard endgame boss for the majority of FFXI linkshells. It wasn't until they began to burn him down did he get easier for the majority of the playerbase. As someone who kited Kirin for hours even with pre-nerf Rangers trying to take him down, Kirin days sucked. You can't tell me that fighting Titan is harder than Kirin? If you wipe, you simply reset and try again with full life and no downtime. If you wiped with Kirin, you probably had it stolen or worse had to zombie it.


So... Kirin was hard... but we zerged him with some mythological game change? Either something's hard or it isn't. And Kirin wasn't hard. Again, time != difficulty. If you wiped on Kirin and you were kiting you were *bad*.

Tank changes to block mechanics doesn't change the difficulty of the fight; it simply changes how you go about fighting him.

You've continued to try to herald FFXI as difficult but it wasn't. It never has been, and never will be, because it was created around an aged platform even at the time and made possible with the lowest common denominator. When the 'difficulty' comes with maximizing your gearsets and not any moves from the bosses themselves (just Stun/Head ****/Spiral Lunge/etc. until DR *OR* use a Z-axis check to completely bypass 99% of the mechanics!) it isn't difficult.

ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
AV and PW were never easily beaten either, not at the lv75 cap. Please don't alter history to win an argument with someone else. Maybe your LS did well on these HNM, but that was the exception, not the rule.


Uh, yes they were. Once changed they were defeated within a week. PW was a big grats, but AV no one gave a sh*t about because it was years past and the opinion was "Meh".

ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
FFXI mobs would be easier too if you had unlimited chances per day to win. The fact you don't so your point is moot and dismissed.


"I'm trying to make a comparison that doesn't work, but since I know it doesn't work I'll just go ahead and preemptively state any counterpoint you do is invalid."

Newsflash: FFXI had the same thing for **** near everything considering you could bring as many healers as you wanted for anything non-instanced. Near wipe? Why not just kite the damned thing around until you've recovered? Same thing, different mechanic -- infinite retries.

ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
You're putting words in my mouth. I won't be bullied by you. I'm done, go fight with someone else.


Someone not agreeing with you isn't "bullying you".

Grow up.

Edited, Oct 21st 2013 4:18pm by Viertel
#89 Oct 21 2013 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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Grow up. Hahaha. This thread is great.

With a name like Princess Tanks, what could go wrong?!

EDIT: Catwho, btw I totally get your thread. Good advice you are giving too.

Just want to drink tequila in the RAAAAIN!

Pants on fire.

Edited, Oct 21st 2013 4:42pm by Gnu
#90 Oct 21 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:

That's because games are dumbed down for fake casual players. No such thing as a casual player, when FF11 started people worked and had kids. US games that are dumbed down for the US players that want it all now. Relic and AF in 3 weeks times for most players. Something that would take months or years on the first MMO. People basically make it seem like garbage gear.



Ahh the good ole days of EQ1`. You do know its still around right? I miss games like them too but do not want to go back to 1990 graphics.
#91 Oct 21 2013 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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Cat pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Gear cannot really be stressed enough in FFXI. It was difficult in 2004 to do Kirin. I remember the first time I went to fight him. I was with a JP LS. This was when Tu'lia had Ullikummi up for hours on end unclaimed. We popped him, got rolled in 5 minutes, and called it a day. The alliance leader(s) knew what to do..it was just hard to convey and we only had one shot.

Gear made it possible to zerg Kirin making him trivial.

The same can be said of Divine Might. It was very difficult to do in 2005 where you didn't have 17 BLMs nuking the sh*t out of them. I remember doing it the hard way and..it was hard (yet rewarding). The sheer amount of coordination required was mind boggling considering you were juggling 5+ mobs at once, kiting two back and forth with a couple of healers and tanks while focusing down 2 in the beginning.

You had to deal with all of the nasty status ailments, huge burst damage, 2 hours, charms, etc. It tested your group's coordination and, yes: individual skill.

After that came PW. I will admit that, though I downed him before the BLU zerg fest came to be, he wasn't terribly difficult: just time consuming. Yes, people had to know what they were doing but by that point, relics were much more common (especially on PLDs) so the fight became trivial.

I'm curious how many of you have actually done PW pre-2008? Certainly I can say not Vietrel: again, him speaking from lack of experience.

I think 6-4 was also a testament to individual skill. You can agree or disagree all you want. The difference between a good PLD or NIN on that fight was as clear as night and day. Same with your healers.

Now outside of that, I cannot really think of many challenging things in 11. Well truth be told I can when we relate it to 14. Soloing some of the AF quests could be a testament to player ability and such. I don't really see any of that in 14.



Tired of hearing 14 and 11 being compared? Too bad. This is a FF game and it has a predecessor. There are so many things taken from 11 in this game...yet there are also a plethora of other aspects taken from many other MMOs. It is not FF 11 v 2.0 but to deny some of the similarities is rather naive.

Many of us miss 11 for many reasons...but one major aspect I have seen appear again and again is the community.

In case you weren't aware, Yoshi seems to be quite the MMO addict and 'hardcore' one at that. As such, it seems he has taken what he has seen as successful additions to other MMORPGs and implemented them here while leaving some of the less appealing aspects out.

Most of us realize that 14 isn't 11 but it doesn't stop us from dreaming fondly of our time spent in Vanadiel.

Edited, Oct 21st 2013 4:57pm by HitomeOfBismarck
#92 Oct 21 2013 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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I don't really have a serious problem with people talking about FF11, but it does seem like 80% of the time when an argument over something pops up, people are like "OH YEAH WELL IN FF11 blah blah blah " I don't really want to argue over this, I probably shouldn't have brought it up, but I have a strong feeling if I started to bring up WoW comparisons in all of my posts people would probably tell me to stfu, and believe me, I miss the good old days of WoW just as much as you all miss FF11.

Also, I think it would probably be next to impossible to make a Final Fantasy game with out taking something from all of the predecessors. And if they did make a FF with out all the little things everyone loves about it, people would probably burn SE to the ground.

Edited, Oct 21st 2013 6:23pm by Jeskradha
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#93 Oct 21 2013 at 4:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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You kited Kirin... and that was hard how? You ran around a *gigantic* arena that gave you more than enough time to run away from anything he casts


If you had "speedy pants" (e.g. Crimson pants) or shoes, then it was possible to outrun Kirin's attacks. Otherwise, no. It was not that trivial to outrun his ga spells and breath attacks. (PLD could wear Crimson, but not Herald's Gaiters. NIN had night time speedy feet, but a NIN would get one shotted on the first AOE he didn't outrun. Crimson was pretty much it for movement speed for PLD until the ASA pants were added.)

Aaaaaand guess which HNM dropped Crimson pants?
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#94 Oct 21 2013 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Square Enix really needs to just sell a FFXI private server already. Charge a monthly/yearly license cost. Make it fully customizable. Then people can nostalgia their hearts out over it.
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#95 Oct 21 2013 at 7:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Viertel wrote:

I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing hard about FFXI or any other MMO back in the day. Once you amassed the people needed for said event, things were a cakewalk. People will say that was the challenge, finding these people, but the game itself was not challenging. Time wasting? You betcha, hard, no.

The only reason gear was "hard" to obtain is because they put ridiculous limits on what could be done in a certain amount of time with most events. Dynamis, Salvage, Kings, etc. Even Sky, only reason you wasted so much time is because there was only one NM for each item, then a 15 min timer in between gods. Limiting the number of runs you could in X amount of time.


FFXI did require a lot of time, that is a keen observation. The rest of your point is lost to those that know the hardships of the game. You make it seem like finding people was enough and the challenge was nonexistent. I disagree and so will most people who played endgame in the old days.

Quote:

Uh, no. Kirin was long, not hard. Time != difficulty.

You kited Kirin... and that was hard how? You ran around a *gigantic* arena that gave you more than enough time to run away from anything he casts, you're out of melee range so you didn't have to worry about any of his TP moves, and your only danger (Sleep) was easily combated by a WHM / RDM running ahead of you and removing it or using a poison pot. The rest of your group literally zerged the **** out of the lesser gods when they spawned and then you whittled Kirin down. With all the kiting damage on him was slow and there was zero possibility of losing hate since you didn't take much/any damage (therefore CE eventually capped), and the time between their attacks allowed their VE to decay.


Hate control was wonky, kiting took forever and by the 100th lap, you can easily make a mistake. Kirin's 2hr could easily murder the entire alliance. Unlike Titan where if you beat the heart, you're going to live though it 100% of the time. No amount of buffs in the old days would give you that kind of protection from Kirin's 2hr.

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Not to mention, in the rare event you died (healer's asleep at the wheel apparently) there's one or two others to pick up your slack until you're raised and can go again. Infinite re-tries!

So....what's "hard" again? Not falling asleep, that's what.


Wrong again Bob. You seem to forget that people used to steal these mobs. Sure you could potentially try again on most mobs if you could retain claim, but odds are you lost it to another LS. There are no infinite tries from where I sit. Plus these mobs depop if you lose aggro for too long.


Quote:

So... Kirin was hard... but we zerged him with some mythological game change? Either something's hard or it isn't. And Kirin wasn't hard. Again, time != difficulty. If you wiped on Kirin and you were kiting you were *bad*.


Yeah, sure whatever you say. You didn't zerg Kirin in 2004. It wasn't until much later. Unless you're going to claim you're part of the movement that started zerging him? Either way, it wasn't done that way by 99% of LS's so it's moot.

Quote:

You've continued to try to herald FFXI as difficult but it wasn't. It never has been, and never will be, because it was created around an aged platform even at the time and made possible with the lowest common denominator. When the 'difficulty' comes with maximizing your gearsets and not any moves from the bosses themselves (just Stun/Head ****/Spiral Lunge/etc. until DR *OR* use a Z-axis check to completely bypass 99% of the mechanics!) it isn't difficult.


Considering how wrong you are about everything so far, I don't believe a word you say. You're clearly living on another plane of reality.

Quote:

Someone not agreeing with you isn't "bullying you".

Grow up.

Edited, Oct 21st 2013 4:18pm by Viertel


Yeah, it's ok to take the words of someone out of context to make a point. I'm not surprised you're defending another douche.

Grow up??? Yeah, real classy.
#96 Oct 21 2013 at 8:03 PM Rating: Excellent
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:


Yeah, it's ok to take the words of someone out of context to make a point. I'm not surprised you're defending another douche.

Grow up??? Yeah, real classy.


Now now, I didn't agree with you, but I didn't resort to childish name calling either. Who's the bully now!?
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#97 Oct 22 2013 at 6:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Any tank worth their weight in salt will "lead" a party. Every tank has hte same basic expectations, and if they're not being met, it's their job to explain what they want to the other members.
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#98 Oct 22 2013 at 6:36 AM Rating: Default
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Call me a "Princess" all you want! If you are in a dungeon level 30 or higher and you still don't know your job GTFO. I am not here to teach you how to play the game. As a WHM I can just drop the group and get a better one. If you are spanking my sleep targets, pulling hate over and over, not keeping hate, NOT USING YOUR GD COOL DOWNS (tanks I am looking at you), Or just plain disrupting the group I am going to say something and there is a good chance I will drop the party if I need to!

I was in a group today that did all the above at once. The 2 dps thought they where off tanks and smacked all of my sleep targets. The tank could only keep hate on one target at a time and had no GD idea what a cool down was. then to top it off I explain a boss fight to them letting them know I will be sleeping the boss when the add spawns and the **** tank stays on the boss for the full fight stopping me from casting sleep on it and forcing me to heal the dps who where off tanking the add. The add dies with me at 1/3 mana shortly after one of our dps dies from a cone aoe attack and starts asking for a rez wile the tank was getting his *** handed to him because he did not use any cool downs at all ever! I run out of mana after heal tanking the boss when the tank went down and we all die!

I am sorry but if dropping that group with a "You are all bad bad bad players!" Makes me a "princess" I will gladly take that title!
#99 Oct 22 2013 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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The incident in the OP was in a level 20 dungeon. So, yeah.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
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#100 Oct 22 2013 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
The incident in the OP was in a level 20 dungeon. So, yeah.


Im not so much talking about the OP incident as I am ranting about the last group I was just in. I never had a problem at level 20 to tell the truth. It was not till Haukke Manor level 28ish that people not knowing there job really started to shine and started to get on my nerves!
#101 Oct 22 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree that by the level 30 dungeons folks ought to have a handle on what they need to do. By Haukke Manor, they've had to go through at least four dungeons in the main scenario (the three tutorial dungeons and Toto Rok) so they can't be totally ignorant of their role.

As a tank or healer, or even as a fellow DPS, if you have someone who is being a moron in your group, give them a few chances before you give up entirely.

Also, if someone admits they screwed up and apologizes, it's really rude to leave anyway.
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FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
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