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Leaving FATE earlyFollow

#1 Oct 18 2013 at 4:01 AM Rating: Good
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I can't wait until they fix this. Make it so anyone who leaves a FATE before it's completion gets no reward for it.

I'm sick and tired of trying to level my DRG everyone's fighting the big boss of the moment, when all of a sudden it's just me, the tank, and maybe 2-3 other DPS. Everyone has all run off the next FATE, thinking "someone else" will finish the job for them.

So I've just taken to resetting **** that goes like that. Cause inevitably the tank dies without any incoming heals, and then the dps slowly go down because they can't tank it. So when it falls to me, I just reset the *******. ***** all those lazy jerks.
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#2 Oct 18 2013 at 4:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I think it does? I remember fighting the Svara FATE which I usually max and was called away from the PC. Instead of the usual 20k + I got around 2k XP.
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#3 Oct 18 2013 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
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It does this already if you had to Level Synch for it. If you run away from it or arent inside the level-synch circle of the FATE, even at 99%, you get the message that you're too high in level to recieve EXP for it.

It's fine as it currently is. This way atleast people without a lot of killing power get a little more time towards the end to finish the fate for max rewards.
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#4 Oct 18 2013 at 5:08 AM Rating: Decent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
It does this already if you had to Level Synch for it. If you run away from it or arent inside the level-synch circle of the FATE, even at 99%, you get the message that you're too high in level to recieve EXP for it.

It's fine as it currently is. This way atleast people without a lot of killing power get a little more time towards the end to finish the fate for max rewards.


Clearly you haven't leveled another class through Coerthas.

That's all anyone does now. Get enough in on the FATE to get gold, then run to the next one. Given that most people who do these FATE's will be at or under level for the FATE, you'll be hard pressed to find any group of five people who could finish, say, The Saint's Wake, or Bellyful. I watched a 34 WAR today, who had done a great job tanking, just up and bite it because every healer and most DPS decided to try to catch Seps and Roc of Ages, so they left, thinking they had enough for a gold.

That WAR died. Then it attacked me. I dumped aggro, and the other three DPS ate it. Then I ran. Reset the FATE and went and did Roc of Ages instead.

Sure, that WAR was pretty low in level compared to the FATE he was tanking, but he was doing fine with healing, holding hate and everything. Besides, isn't that what FF is about? A group of people getting together to take on sh*t far above their level and kicking it's ***? Getting experience after leaving the FATE doesn't encourage any kind of teamwork. It just encourages getting in, doing enough to get a gold, and then moving on to the next one. Which, incidentally, screws anyone who decides to try and tank those FATE's, because now they're stuck holding the proverbial bomb.

SolomonGrundy wrote:
I think it does? I remember fighting the Svara FATE which I usually max and was called away from the PC. Instead of the usual 20k + I got around 2k XP.


Sounds like you got failure silver or bronze SG. I've seen that happen too; the usual swarm hits Svara, and soon as she is around 15% or so, most people take off for other FATE's. This leaves maybe 6-8 people to fend off a ******** dragon and a half dozen adds. If you're lucky, one is a healer and the other is a tank. If not, well, then Svara kills everyone and the FATE fails.

Edited, Oct 18th 2013 4:11am by Quor
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#5 Oct 18 2013 at 5:11 AM Rating: Good
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Woops, ignore

Edited, Oct 18th 2013 4:11am by Quor
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The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
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#6 Oct 18 2013 at 5:29 AM Rating: Decent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
It does this already if you had to Level Synch for it. If you run away from it or arent inside the level-synch circle of the FATE, even at 99%, you get the message that you're too high in level to recieve EXP for it.

It's fine as it currently is. This way atleast people without a lot of killing power get a little more time towards the end to finish the fate for max rewards.


They should null you reward specifically because of the Level Sync. If you step outside the designated blue FATE area, then lose all your reward. My reasoning behind this is because of numerous times where people will aggro the hoards far outside the FATE area as they spawn and the Level Synced players stuck inside the area get penalized with minimal reward.
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#7 Oct 18 2013 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Honestly I thought if you were too far you just didn't get a reward. That happened to my fiancee. We were doing the crate turn-in FATE in Western Than, and she ran right past the guy, almost to town. When the FATE ended, she got 0 even though she had killed several Goblins. I don't believe we were level sync'd either. Is it just that those FATEs are very close together out there?
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#8 Oct 18 2013 at 5:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Honestly I thought if you were too far you just didn't get a reward. That happened to my fiancee. We were doing the crate turn-in FATE in Western Than, and she ran right past the guy, almost to town. When the FATE ended, she got 0 even though she had killed several Goblins. I don't believe we were level sync'd either. Is it just that those FATEs are very close together out there?


So she didn't turn in the crates?
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#9 Oct 18 2013 at 6:08 AM Rating: Excellent
Turn in FATEs are the best/worst fates.
99% of the player base does not understand that if you farm the spawned monsters you will get a **** load of EXP within the 15min.
The mobs are so weak, but fast exp is good exp . . .
But the moment to many of the items are turned in the timer drops to 1 min, and it normally only take like 10 items to fill that bar. This is when everyone then needs to turn in w/e amount the managed to get off the mobs or off the ground.

I've gotten the no reward during these FATEs because I forgot to turn in what I had before the timer hit 0.

But really people, make a say macro in every language...tell people to not turn in so fast...

These are also the FATEs I see the most leave like the OP said. They come in, get a few items (if they are lucky) turn in..and warp back to town. I've not seen groups leave FATEs that need bodies to win as the OP is mad about. FATE parties is all I can say. You get cred for the entire groups activity and not just as a single person.
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#10 Oct 18 2013 at 7:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Odd. I've never seen FATEs come apart quite like this. I know people leave, that much is sure, but there are so many people at FATEs on my server (the ones that matter) even if 90% of the people take off there're still too many people there.

Also re: the turn in FATEs telling people not to turn things in is a lost cause. You're kidding yourself if you think that'll ever fly. Just like people killing the lambs in DD if they felt like doing it they would and ***** everyone else. Generally if you say "don't X" they just reply with "Well I'm doing the FATE the way it was intended." or some garbage comment.
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#11 Oct 18 2013 at 8:02 AM Rating: Good
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I've seen this happen out between Camp Bluefog and the Ceruleum Processing Plant. I do believe you get exp even if you leave the FATE circle but as stated above it wont provide exp when you were level sync'd.

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#12 Oct 18 2013 at 8:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Generally if you say "don't X" they just reply with "Well I'm doing the FATE the way it was intended." or some garbage comment.


Here's the thing about that...they're right. They ARE doing the FATE the way it was intended.

Something I never quite understood is: why is any contribution awarded for doing things that are NOT the objective of the FATE? Let alone MASSIVE contribution being awarded for specifically avoiding the FATE's objectives. It's completely counter-intuitive.
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#13 Oct 18 2013 at 8:55 AM Rating: Default
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FATEs seemed to have produced a hilariously large big bunch of whiners. So they leave early in order to maximize EXP per hour and jet to another one (especially since there's 50 billion people at the FATE anyway).

WHAT. DOES. IT. MATTER.

Their contribution doesn't affect your contribution or your party member's contribution or ANYONE'S contribution. They aren't AFK; they're not leeching and are putting in effort.

But no, because you don't *personally* like leaving early when you've already fulfilled your quota you want to punish other people? Instead, you decide to act childishly:

Quor wrote:
So I've just taken to resetting sh*t that goes like that. Cause inevitably the tank dies without any incoming heals, and then the dps slowly go down because they can't tank it. So when it falls to me, I just reset the *******.


Considering NM FATEs (non-chain ones) do absolute crap for damage and all you have to do is dodge the red and *maybe* pop a potion I highly doubt they always, always fail. A tank and a handful of DDs are more than capable of killing what remains. If they die it's because they would have anyway due to being lazy with red zones.

Secondly, I'd *love* to know where you're leveling where apparently 99% of the train leaves that boss to move on. No, in reality, the people that leave aren't the majority so it sounds more and more like sour grapes making up a false story.

Of course, the kicker is this:

Quor wrote:
***** all those lazy jerks.


The. Hypocrisy.

Pot. Kettle.

Edited, Oct 18th 2013 10:55am by Viertel
#14 Oct 18 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Excellent
Viertal, did you read the OP? I believe his concern to be valid.

Example: People join a fate that has a large Boss... towards the end of it, 90% of people leave to join another fate... Boss wipes remaining players.

OP Idea for a fix: Make those 90% not get any reward, thus they would have to stay until the Boss is dead.

In a "kill swarm" fate, it really wouldn't make difference, as long as you could avoid the agro of more swarm mobs than you could handle, but in area fates with a Boss his solution does have some merit.

Edited, Oct 18th 2013 10:35am by Dyadem
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#15 Oct 18 2013 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Turn in FATEs are the best/worst fates.
99% of the player base does not understand that if you farm the spawned monsters you will get a sh*t load of EXP within the 15min.
The mobs are so weak, but fast exp is good exp . . .
But the moment to many of the items are turned in the timer drops to 1 min, and it normally only take like 10 items to fill that bar. This is when everyone then needs to turn in w/e amount the managed to get off the mobs or off the ground.

I've gotten the no reward during these FATEs because I forgot to turn in what I had before the timer hit 0.

But really people, make a say macro in every language...tell people to not turn in so fast...

These are also the FATEs I see the most leave like the OP said. They come in, get a few items (if they are lucky) turn in..and warp back to town. I've not seen groups leave FATEs that need bodies to win as the OP is mad about. FATE parties is all I can say. You get cred for the entire groups activity and not just as a single person.


I wish those FATEs would go on for the maximum duration, everyone would be sure to have enough time. By the way it's exactly 6 items that's required for gold, always.
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#16 Oct 18 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I noticed this in the past few days only in off peak hours. I did all the fate achievements but the 3000 one and I'm level capped so no Fate xp for me. I stay in Coerthas for the 217 xp a kill for my chocobo. I notice people leaving the Svara dragon fight through the gate or by death tele near the end if other fates pop. The Eyes have it used to have dead bodies everywhere like Go Go Gimera, but people found out you get xp if you stay anywhere in the zone. Coerthas has 4 fates I can't solo not counting behemoth, as long as Fate jumpers get the hp down to where you fight boss mob hp regen before they die it doesn't bother me. I haven't failed the final Svara dragon fight yet because of good tanks and the game keeps sending in npc soldiers but I noticed I'm healing and raising lots people low as 32 in a lv 43 fight ,it's still fun if I'm not losing.Smiley: smile
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#17 Oct 18 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
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So op is here to dictate how everyone should play fates, got it.
#18 Oct 18 2013 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Turn in FATEs are the best/worst fates.
99% of the player base does not understand that if you farm the spawned monsters you will get a sh*t load of EXP within the 15min.
The mobs are so weak, but fast exp is good exp . . .
But the moment to many of the items are turned in the timer drops to 1 min, and it normally only take like 10 items to fill that bar. This is when everyone then needs to turn in w/e amount the managed to get off the mobs or off the ground.

I've gotten the no reward during these FATEs because I forgot to turn in what I had before the timer hit 0.

But really people, make a say macro in every language...tell people to not turn in so fast...

These are also the FATEs I see the most leave like the OP said. They come in, get a few items (if they are lucky) turn in..and warp back to town. I've not seen groups leave FATEs that need bodies to win as the OP is mad about. FATE parties is all I can say. You get cred for the entire groups activity and not just as a single person.


I never understood the need to have the FATEs end because of a certain amount of kills or items turned in.

I got an idea to make FATEs feel less grindy. Make the time set in stone. No amount of kills or turned in items will end a fate. Monsters will keep spawning until the timer runs out. This way even if the objective is complete they will keep spawning.

Think of how many FATE issues this will fix? No more asshats ruining Dark Devices or turning in too many items in too early. People will want to stay until the end of the FATE because it will give good experience points by chaining monsters. You won't have too many people in one fate because the different parties can spread out.

Only issue I see with this is the escort FATEs. Maybe have them spawn slightly quicker than the others?
#19 Oct 18 2013 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
So op is here to dictate how everyone should play fates, got it.


wait, aren't you the guy who was gleefully telling us all of your plans to kill the lambs in DD because everyone else is doing it wrong?


or was it one of the other ten guys with shadow in their name?
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#20 Oct 18 2013 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Why care if a fate is left early by other people? If anything you should be happy for big bosses frees up lag so especially if you are on ps3 you can get gold, kill all mobs once again frees up lag so you can get credit. And turn ones who cares turn in and l leave.

Reason I say this is because I play on ps3 and if there are a ton of people at the fate it's pointless, boss or add or mobs will never pop and you will end up doing fates for no rewards. So forcing people to stay there and lag everything down for no reason is kinda stupid.

Plus never have I not seen a ton of people at svara cancer the eyes have it and go go chimera or any big fates.
#21 Oct 18 2013 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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domice wrote:
Why care if a fate is left early by other people? If anything you should be happy for big bosses frees up lag so especially if you are on ps3 you can get gold, kill all mobs once again frees up lag so you can get credit. And turn ones who cares turn in and l leave.

Reason I say this is because I play on ps3 and if there are a ton of people at the fate it's pointless, boss or add or mobs will never pop and you will end up doing fates for no rewards. So forcing people to stay there and lag everything down for no reason is kinda stupid.

Plus never have I not seen a ton of people at svara cancer the eyes have it and go go chimera or any big fates.


Mainly because if you aren't in a party or at least duoing with a healer, the moment all the other people ditch and leave you to solo the FATE, you wind up *** up in the snow. I think that point was covered. Did you miss it? I think you missed it.
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#22 Oct 18 2013 at 2:23 PM Rating: Default
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Llester wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
So op is here to dictate how everyone should play fates, got it.


wait, aren't you the guy who was gleefully telling us all of your plans to kill the lambs in DD because everyone else is doing it wrong?


or was it one of the other ten guys with shadow in their name?

I am and this would follow my whole thought on it, play how you want to play not how others tell you. Plus I never said they were doing it wrong, I just loved their tears when ending it as intended

Edited, Oct 18th 2013 4:24pm by ShadowofaDoubt
#23 Oct 18 2013 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Mainly because if you aren't in a party or at least duoing with a healer, the moment all the other people ditch and leave you to solo the FATE, you wind up *** up in the snow. I think that point was covered. Did you miss it? I think you missed it.


That point's actually been made a whole bunch of times... including in the OP. He's not the first person to miss it, though I'm not sure how that keeps happening.

Just to restate... if you're left alone with an angry boss and suddenly have no healers or support, you're going to lose. You're going to die. And the FATE is getting reset, and then nobody gets rewarded for it. THAT ISN'T BETTER.

You can't just depend on "enough" people sticking around to finish the fight; especially as this behavior becomes more well known and more common (and if it's really more efficient, then that's what will happen).
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#24domice, Posted: Oct 18 2013 at 2:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) On what fate will this happen? Plus like I said if you are not in a party and on ps3 and require everyone to stay till the end oh the fate might as well pack up cuz you are not getting any exp. All you are trying to do rob Peter to pay Paul.
#25 Oct 18 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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I was under the impression that leaving the FATE early while level synced would result in getting no experience as well, but just yesterday I died and went back to my homepoint, which took my level sync off, and I still received 5k experience.

I remember this especially because after going back to hp and losing sync I thought to myself "Ah bummer, probably should have just stayed there dead to keep the reward" and then, about a minute later, I received the xp and gil. Perhaps a glitch?
#26 Oct 18 2013 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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domice wrote:
On what fate will this happen? Plus like I said if you are not in a party and on ps3 and require everyone to stay till the end oh the fate might a all pack up cuz you are not getting any exp. All you are trying to do rob Peter to pay Paul.


Oh, I see, you're retarded. Sorry, I didn't notice before. Must have missed that. Nevermind, run along now. Smiley: oyvey
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The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#27 Oct 19 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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If they would implement a smarter reward system based on total damage dealt or total healing provided (ideally 1:1 ratio for damage:healing I would imagine) then problem solved. It seems like it only takes about 5 hits on a boss to get full reward. I guess the goal is to reward as many players as possible.

Edited, Oct 19th 2013 1:43pm by ErikHighwind
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#28 Oct 19 2013 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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Viertel wrote:
snip


Read the OP.

aadrenry wrote:
I was under the impression that leaving the FATE early while level synced would result in getting no experience as well, but just yesterday I died and went back to my homepoint, which took my level sync off, and I still received 5k experience.

I remember this especially because after going back to hp and losing sync I thought to myself "Ah bummer, probably should have just stayed there dead to keep the reward" and then, about a minute later, I received the xp and gil. Perhaps a glitch?


I'm not sure where the idea that level sync was involved came into play. Yes, if you're level sync'd and you leave, you don't get any credit for a FATE. That was not an issue here. The issue here is people leaving a FATE before it's finished and the "skeleton crew" that sticks around dying because you can't kill the NM.
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#29 Oct 19 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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ErikHighwind wrote:
If they would implement a smarter reward system based on total damage dealt or total healing provided (ideally 1:1 ratio for damage:healing I would imagine) then problem solved. It seems like it only takes about 5 hits on a boss to get full reward. I guess the goal is to reward as many players as possible.

Edited, Oct 19th 2013 1:43pm by ErikHighwind


There are a few issues with that, not the least of which means that people would be more likely to abandon crowded FATEs to try out more open ones to get bigger numbers. The reward system is fine, they just need to make it so that if you leave the area (the FATE label vanishing) you get 0 reward.
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#30 Oct 19 2013 at 12:17 PM Rating: Default
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Mainly because if you aren't in a party or at least duoing with a healer, the moment all the other people ditch and leave you to solo the FATE, you wind up *** up in the snow. I think that point was covered. Did you miss it? I think you missed it.


That point's actually been made a whole bunch of times... including in the OP. He's not the first person to miss it, though I'm not sure how that keeps happening.

Just to restate... if you're left alone with an angry boss and suddenly have no healers or support, you're going to lose. You're going to die. And the FATE is getting reset, and then nobody gets rewarded for it. THAT ISN'T BETTER.

You can't just depend on "enough" people sticking around to finish the fight; especially as this behavior becomes more well known and more common (and if it's really more efficient, then that's what will happen).


Uh, no. Unless it's an HNM fate (Gorgomiera, Lazy Laurence, Cancer, etc.) or a chain FATE that ends in a boss fight (and even these aren't that bad) you're trying to make this be some huge issue where it isn't. They're slightly stonger hitting monsters with heavy hitting red-zone abilities -- if you're a tank with even one more damage dealer, the boss is at 10%, and you can't kill it from there you're flat out terrible and need to dodge their movesets. They're FATEs, not HM Primals; the damage they deal is small on normal attacks any self-healing or a potion can take care of easily for 10% of their health.

First of all, in the big FATE train areas not once have I *EVER* seen 90% of the people leave at low health to rush off somewhere else. Why? Because there's so many people in that flustercluck they can't be assured they're going to get full credit since the bosses literally melt in seconds. If you're in a zone that's not of the big gravy-train then you really don't have anyone else to blame but yourself (and considering usually the small cluster of people there stay to ensure the boss dies it's not even an issue in those places either). POIDH.

Lastly, despite what you posted, it doesn't matter if the FATE succeeds or fails for credit. If it dies, and you got gold, you get 100% credit. If it fails, and you got gold, you get around 75-80% credit -- not nothing. If you paid even the slightest attention during this summer festival event with Return of the King (in *ANY* zone) you'd have seen this happen because in the lesser populated zones he spawns in it's much harder to finish it successfully, yet you still get a reward for participating. You can engage an NM FATE in a fairly lonely zone (Outer La Noscea, for example), beat away until you run away, wait until it ends, and you'll get something.

Again, like the OP, you're trying to make some mythological issue a problem that doesn't even exist in reality.

Quor wrote:
Viertel wrote:
snip


Read the OP.


Simply because you were called out for whinging in some scenario that more than likely didn't happen doesn't mean I didn't.

Not joining in to agree on random "I hate this, others should be punished for being efficient, oh and I'm a hypocrit" of this week on ZAM != I didn't read.

Edited, Oct 19th 2013 2:23pm by Viertel
#31 Oct 19 2013 at 1:34 PM Rating: Default
Viertel wrote:
Lastly, despite what you posted, it doesn't matter if the FATE succeeds or fails for credit. If it dies, and you got gold, you get 100% credit. If it fails, and you got gold, you get around 75-80% credit -- not nothing. If you paid even the slightest attention during this summer festival event with Return of the King (in *ANY* zone) you'd have seen this happen because in the lesser populated zones he spawns in it's much harder to finish it successfully, yet you still get a reward for participating. You can engage an NM FATE in a fairly lonely zone (Outer La Noscea, for example), beat away until you run away, wait until it ends, and you'll get something.


The issue with 'losing' a fate and still getting gold, for me, doesnt have anything to do with the xp/gil... it would have to do with specific fates that have a rare reward attached to them.

Take the Mushroom King for example (yeah its a lower level fate, but stick with me).. if you get gold and win, you have a chance to get a mini pet... if you get gold and lose... you will not get a mini pet. For a lot of people the (like me) the mini is more valuable then the xp/gil attained from the fate.
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#32 Oct 19 2013 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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you guys realize the social purpose of FATEs right? its to get players to come together and fight together for a common purpose. to team up and take down the big huge boss that no one can fight on his own.

to me this 'people leaving fates' thing comes down to the lack of a good community. i know there will always be the players who dont care, who just want to grind and dont want to have anything to do with anyone else. but maybe we could try building a stronger community. hype people up, get them excited about doing fates. talk to people. congratulate them. send them tells after the fate is done telling them how great they were or how much you enjoyed playing with them.

whenever i see a fate pop, i run over to it. sometimes im the ONLY person there, staring at this big huge boss, kinda scared, not sure if i should start it and hope that others rush in later or just forget about it. then one or two players will come over and do the same thing. they'll run up and kinda stand there, unsure who (if anyone) should rush in. i try to talk to them and say things like 'come on , we can do this!' . 9 times out of 10 it will work and no one will leave prematurely. and even if its 3 or 4 of us, we will be successful.

its a lot like real life—we complain about how often people are angry or jerks or selfish but not many of us try to encourage a positive environment or spread happiness and goodness toward others, which are the very things that would slowly break down the negativity, even if on a small scale.

you want people to be nice and contribute and feel responsible for their actions and treat others with respect? start doing your part to build a positive community on your server, or city, or zone(s) in which you fate grind. im not saying its your responsibility; it cetainly isn't your job to make people care about others. but YOU CAN help, you can make a difference. and its infectious!! once it spreads, it will keep spreading exponentially. i think we should all give it a shot and see how it affects our experience in FFXIV :)
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#33 Oct 19 2013 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I've seen this happen a lot starting in Coerthas, mostly with the boss fights. This needs to be fixed. If you aren't within a certain range of the FATE, you fail it and get nothing.
#34 Oct 19 2013 at 9:58 PM Rating: Good
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Turn in FATEs are the best/worst fates.
99% of the player base does not understand that if you farm the spawned monsters you will get a sh*t load of EXP within the 15min.
The mobs are so weak, but fast exp is good exp . . .
But the moment to many of the items are turned in the timer drops to 1 min, and it normally only take like 10 items to fill that bar. This is when everyone then needs to turn in w/e amount the managed to get off the mobs or off the ground.


There are many low level players who solo these fates for xp. They don't have the option to kill anything so they'll turn in crates regardless. Anything short of nerfing this behavior itself like they did with Dark Devices(griefing) won't solve anything. Especially a macro that people don't care to follow.
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