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#1 Oct 21 2013 at 6:18 AM Rating: Decent
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So I've seen this more and more as I work on my first relic (whm).

The end game community in here is so super elitest that it feels like everything is a catch 22. For those not aware of a catch 22, it is where you must have something in order to do something that grants you said thing. EG you must have a relic, before you can join a group to do the dungeon (AK) you need to get your relic.

My favorite are CM speed runs, the second to last story dungeon. You must have relic/full DL jewlery before people will let you join a level 50 dungeon that a whm can tank the whole thing with just AF armor.

Im not sure about other servers, but Hyperion and Sargantus are super bad about this.

Titant looking for people who know the fight/have experience/already have relic
Ak/WP/CM/Hydra - must have relic (or relic +1), and full gear, and already completed these dungeons.

The thing is, all of these fights were tuned to be beaten with AF armor (up to titan) and titan requires some jewlery, and ifirit/garuda/GC weapon but other than that they are all beatable without these stupid requirements.

Needless to say I got my first AK run done for my relic, by lieing and saying it wasn't my first time (which they figured out when we entered the last boss and i got the mapping achievement), and just reading the guide online so i wasn't clueless....You know what happened....nothing....we cleared the zone in like 25 minutes, Only died once to the bard backing up and agroing a Dahulan he couldnt see. Demon wall died at first set of adds, last boss died before second add died. Nothing terrible happened, but i had no relic, just af gear + hq jewelry, and a lvl 50 gc weapon.

So why the catch 22 with such elitism....this wreaks of the FF11 endgame back when only certain jobs could come to merit parties, even though any would work.
#2 Oct 21 2013 at 6:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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These people are what I like to technically refer to as "**************** The trick to enjoying XIV I have found is to avoid these "*************** and play with nice people. Find yourself a nice FC and enjoy the benefits of playing with nice people.
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#3 Oct 21 2013 at 6:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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dustinfoley wrote:
So why the catch 22 with such elitism....this wreaks of the FF11 endgame back when only certain jobs could come to merit parties, even though any would work.


**Flashbacks to being a new Warrior XI getting shouted at for not having Ninja subjob and using a 2H axe**
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#4 Oct 21 2013 at 7:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Well the short answer is efficiency.

The long answer is "Once you get a relic and understand how incredible boring it is to run the same dungeon over and over and over you want to do it as fast as possible, and sad to say if others in your group does not have a relic it will slow you down, period."

And yes I have a relic or two, and yes I love speedruns with "relic onry" because it lets me get back to doing the fun stuff in the game faster.

Simple truth.
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#5 Oct 21 2013 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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i don't understand the problem here, just use duty finder/go with FCmates
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#6 Oct 21 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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I would say go with FC or DF too. DF Can't discriminate and your FC shouldn't either. At the least they should have a night to help people get the items they need to do these other fights. Mine does.
#7 Oct 21 2013 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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I know at least one of those servers is a Legacy sever, and it's one of the reasons why I didn't continue on a Legacy server.

I would think about transferring to a low-pop server, perhaps, using the DF more, and finding a nice FC.

#8 Oct 21 2013 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Well both are legacy, and you cant transfer off of them.

I dont have a FC due to limited play time, and I ultimate got AK done with duty finder, but after having been dropped 3x due to not having a relic.
#9 Oct 21 2013 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
dustinfoley wrote:
So why the catch 22 with such elitism....this wreaks of the FF11 endgame back when only certain jobs could come to merit parties, even though any would work.


**Flashbacks to being a new Warrior XI getting shouted at for not having Ninja subjob and using a 2H axe**


And then Samurai got some very cool abilities pre-level 37 that made it the ultimate sub-job for WAR... and Gaxe got boosted too so that anyone dual-wielding axes with sub-job of NIN would get laughed at...

To quote Adam Sandler, "They're all going to laugh at you!"
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#10 Oct 21 2013 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent


Woohooo, I am getting close to that point in the story! Can't wait until the fireworks when I watch my cutscenes, ha.
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#11 Oct 21 2013 at 8:37 AM Rating: Default
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This is new and exciting....
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#12 Oct 21 2013 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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The problem is kind of simple. Nobody reads anything. They mumble the words to themselves, but they really don't take the time to understand them. The OP itself is evidence of that.

Take this for example:

"My favorite are CM speed runs, the second to last story dungeon. You must have relic/full DL jewlery before people will let you join a level 50 dungeon that a whm can tank the whole thing with just AF armor."

This is not a dig at the OP specifically because I see this kind of straw man very often, in fact I think we're on a first name basis.

This is somewhat faulty. If you start off by indicating that it's a CM speed run than you're already admitting it isn't a simple completion run, which is a different animal. Once you've accepted and understood that the group forming up is specifically looking for a CM speed run then all requirements for a simple completion run no longer apply. This is akin to someone being perturbed they can't drive their stock 1990 honda civic in an F1 race. It's a car, it has four wheels, what's your problem? It's not just about getting a car with 4 wheels around a track, there's slightly more to it than that.

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#13 Oct 21 2013 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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I don't mind newbies in stuff like AK and WP, I do cringe when I see people show up for Garuda in full AF, company weapon and lv 30 accessories. Duty Finder will tell you all sorts of ugly things until you learn how fights are done. Some people have fought Ifrit/Garuda/Titan for the 50th time without seeing any drop they want and having someone who are new to a vital role will probably be less successful. However it's really nice to be praised for doing a good job after waddling through pools of mud before finally learning how to do the fights right.
#14 Oct 21 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gotta Ignore-The-Fools and keep going. You will find awesome players that are also looking for gear upgrades.

I have been having a great time, a double-great time playing endgame content, even with Duty Finder groups! As soon as I realized that the impatient players are just looking at it form a different angle, and players looking for upgrades are doing EXACTLY WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING, then the BS didn't bother me anymore.

Some players have run theses things 100+ times and their patience with first-timers is thin. Some people are just ****** But not everybody, not even most people. What I find is most people are awesome. The jerks just happen to be the loudest.

So just go do the thing you want to do. You will get a good group full of helpful players in no time!



#15 Oct 21 2013 at 9:35 AM Rating: Default
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Furiousnixon wrote:

This is somewhat faulty. If you start off by indicating that it's a CM speed run than you're already admitting it isn't a simple completion run, which is a different animal. Once you've accepted and understood that the group forming up is specifically looking for a CM speed run then all requirements for a simple completion run no longer apply. This is akin to someone being perturbed they can't drive their stock 1990 honda civic in an F1 race. It's a car, it has four wheels, what's your problem? It's not just about getting a car with 4 wheels around a track, there's slightly more to it than that.




Explain to me why i need more than AF + lvl 50 gc weapons to speed run a dungeon that I end up tanking the adds in all of the bosses for?

Whats that I cant hear you... WHM needs relic? For what? The stuff doesnt hit hard, and Holy + regen is enough to let me tank as well as any war/pld would on the adds.

All you need for a speed run is people who have done it and are willing to skip cutscenes and go balls to the wall. You dont need anything else so you are just being a ****... Sorry bro!
#16 Oct 21 2013 at 9:38 AM Rating: Default
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Also your analogy is stupid,

Saying you must have relics for speed runs in CM is like bringing an F1 car onto a free way during rush hour traffic. You have more engine than you need and are just wasting everyones time.
#17 Oct 21 2013 at 9:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you start off by indicating that it's a CM speed run than you're already admitting it isn't a simple completion run, which is a different animal.


I agree; however, it is impossible to make this kind of agreement if you're using the Duty Finder.

It would be like having a rule that you only date blonds, but then you get set up on a blind date, and, turns out, the girl is a brunette. If you're not satisfied with the makeup of the date, you shouldn't ask the brunette to leave in hopes that a blond comes walking up... that's silly. Instead, you be the one to leave the dinner date (but not before ordering the lady a drink and picking up the tab).
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#18 Oct 21 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Simply a case of two different goals. You want to just get a clear but they are forming for a speedrun. No one thinks you need full DL and relic to simply clear AK but to run it as fast as possible to farm Tomestones they want the party to be overgeared. Just everyone having a relic vs the grand company weapon makes kills go much faster. Add Darklight + instead of AF and the need for healing goes way down. If I don't have to heal I can Holy DD. This shaves many minutes off of a run. A speed run is a 4 minute Garuda where you completely skip phases. You just cannot do that in AF.

Hopefully the future Party Recruitment Bulletin Board will alleviate some of these problems.

Quote:
A: There have been situations where frustration arises when players with different play styles and objectives are matched together with the Duty Finder.

Therefore, we would like to make it possible to play with people who have the same goal as you.

Party Recruitment Bulletin Board
We will be making it so you can recruit party members through a bulletin board-like feature where you will be able to indicate your objective. For example, clearing the main scenario, relaxed party play, putting emphasis on speed and efficiency, etc.

For those that would like to participate in certain content, they’ll be able to form parties with players who have the same goal.

Updates to the Duty Finder
We’ll be having a special edition of the Letter from the Producer LIVE about the details for this, but we’ll be making it so matching occurs on a categorical basis, such as for leveling dungeons, high level dungeons, story, guildhests, and other content. Also, we’ll be making it so you can obtain Allagan tomestomes for each category once a day.
From http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/108630-Letter-from-the-Producer-LIVE-Part-IX-Q-A-Updates?p=1452681&viewfull=1#post1452681

Also, there are plenty of Linkshells for people with limited play time on Legacy servers. I should know, I'm in two of them and help people like you out all the time. People are out there whose playstyle matches yours, you just have to find them.

If you don't want to party with speedrunners then build your own party.

Edited, Oct 21st 2013 12:05pm by Yelta
#19 Oct 21 2013 at 10:23 AM Rating: Default
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Your not reading, i wasnt going for a clear, i just wanted to grind CM for tomes.
#20 Oct 21 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
Your not reading, i wasnt going for a clear, i just wanted to grind CM for tomes.


Nowhere in your post do you say you are trying to farm for tomes. Many of your comments tend to hint that you are trying for a normal clear.

In any case you can either roll the dice with DF or build your own party. You don't get to pick how other people build their parties. All you can do is try to play with people who want to play the way you do.
#21 Oct 21 2013 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
Your not reading, i wasnt going for a clear, i just wanted to grind CM for tomes.


If you are trying to grind but have crappy gear, you have to bite the bullet and grind in DF, or have an active FC. DF is not nearly as bad as people think. Once you have good gear then you can go on local shout speed runs. Speed runs aren't speedy without good gear, its that simple.
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#22 Oct 21 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Default
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Okay yelta i will prove you are not reading...

Quote:
Needless to say I got my first AK run done for my relic,Explain to me why i need more than AF + lvl 50 gc weapons to speed run a dungeon that I end up tanking the adds in all of the bosses for?


First post, clearly indicates main story is done and am working on relic


Quote:
Explain to me why i need more than AF + lvl 50 gc weapons to speed run a dungeon that I end up tanking the adds in all of the bosses for?

All you need for a speed run is people who have done it and are willing to skip cutscenes and go balls to the wall. You dont need anything else so you are just being a ****... Sorry bro!


Second post (right before yours) that you clearlly didnt read, I am talking about speed runs, no where do i say for story.



Furiousnixon made the (wrong) assumption i was trying to join a speed run from my story clear of CM. See this lack of reading is what perpetuates miss information.

Edited, Oct 21st 2013 1:15pm by dustinfoley
#23 Oct 21 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
If you start off by indicating that it's a CM speed run than you're already admitting it isn't a simple completion run, which is a different animal.


I agree; however, it is impossible to make this kind of agreement if you're using the Duty Finder.

It would be like having a rule that you only date blonds, but then you get set up on a blind date, and, turns out, the girl is a brunette. If you're not satisfied with the makeup of the date, you shouldn't ask the brunette to leave in hopes that a blond comes walking up... that's silly. Instead, you be the one to leave the dinner date (but not before ordering the lady a drink and picking up the tab).



Wait wait... leave DF out of it. Sorry. I don't explicitly state it enough but I don't care about DF. That's a mess if only because it prevents any form of common goal being communicated before being dropped into the dungeon other than the implicit one of completing it. You can't really have a useful discussion about DF because it is what it is and you can't form any sort of expectations at all when using it because of it's anonymous and entirely mute nature, again, short of the implicit goal of completion.

And you're right about your analogy. I am only referring to parties forming in /shout. I can't comment on DF more than to say 'you get what you get' or 'beggars can't be choosers'.
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#24 Oct 21 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
Okay yelta i will prove you are not reading...

Quote:
Needless to say I got my first AK run done for my relic,Explain to me why i need more than AF + lvl 50 gc weapons to speed run a dungeon that I end up tanking the adds in all of the bosses for?


First post, clearly indicates main story is done and am working on relic


Quote:
Explain to me why i need more than AF + lvl 50 gc weapons to speed run a dungeon that I end up tanking the adds in all of the bosses for?

All you need for a speed run is people who have done it and are willing to skip cutscenes and go balls to the wall. You dont need anything else so you are just being a ****... Sorry bro!


Second post (right before yours) that you clearlly didnt read, I am talking about speed runs, no where do i say for story.



Furiousnixon made the (wrong) assumption i was trying to join a speed run from my story clear of CM. See this lack of reading is what perpetuates miss information.

Edited, Oct 21st 2013 1:15pm by dustinfoley


I actually didn't even consider what part of what you were doing as it doesn't matter. The people forming those parties are setting the expectations based on what they want them to be or what they feel is adequate (for them) for the runs over and above simple completion. There is no standard set of expectations here as to what constitutes bare minimum for speed runs, it varies based on the group leader but after all is said and done it's their choice. Is that "fair", maybe not, probably not. "Explain to me why I need X" also doesn't matter. Nobody is owed anything here. The party leader doesn't owe you an invite or explanation even because you've backed them into a corner to justify why they're only looking for players meeting certain criteria. I don't think anyone is arguing that you could very well accomplish it with less, but the people creating those parties don't care and aren't obliged to be what you construe as reasonable with their requirements.

As I said your argument isn't uncommon but what are you really saying? "I demand you justify yourself to me and if you can't and I win the argument then you must invite me to the party you're forming." ?
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#25 Oct 21 2013 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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what happened, zam? what happened?
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#26 Oct 21 2013 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
Llester wrote:
what happened, zam? what happened?


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#27 Oct 21 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
Okay yelta i will prove you are not reading...
Quote:
Needless to say I got my first AK run done for my relic,Explain to me why i need more than AF + lvl 50 gc weapons to speed run a dungeon that I end up tanking the adds in all of the bosses for?

First post, clearly indicates main story is done and am working on relic.

First post, clearly indicates you are doing the content for relic, no where says you are attempting a speedrun for farming Tomestones.
Repeating content does not = a speedrun.
dustinfoley wrote:

Explain to me why i need more than AF + lvl 50 gc weapons to speed run a dungeon that I end up tanking the adds in all of the bosses for?

All you need for a speed run is people who have done it and are willing to skip cutscenes and go balls to the wall. You dont need anything else so you are just being a ****... Sorry bro!

That is not a speedrun as the guys shouting for relic +1 are doing it. It might be a fast run but not what they are looking for. We are talking runs well under 20 minutes for some content, 8-10 minute WP, 4 minute Garuda HM. These runs are not possible without being heavily overgeared for the content. I don't care how good you press buttons the math says higher stats = faster clear time.
dustinfoley wrote:
Second post (right before yours) that you clearlly didnt read, I am talking about speed runs, no where do i say for story.

Nope, I didn't read it as I was typing my own response to the OP when it posted...

The fact still remains you do not get to dictate the requirements others have for their parties. Your only choices are to DF and hope for the best or build your own party with like minded people.

I realize I am coming off as an elitist but I don't actually require these for my AK runs. My sister is a pally and I whm and we queue up for AK using DF and just work with whatever we get. Sometimes we speedrun but I actually prefer the runs where someone is new or the whole group just feels like pulling each group one at a time and chatting and such. I like taking my time when I have time to take. But if I join a speedrun I make sure I am geared up for it, eat my food and run run run.


Edited, Oct 21st 2013 2:18pm by Yelta
#28 Oct 21 2013 at 12:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Furiousnixon wrote:
I actually didn't even consider what part of what you were doing as it doesn't matter. The people forming those parties are setting the expectations based on what they want them to be or what they feel is adequate (for them) for the runs over and above simple completion. There is no standard set of expectations here as to what constitutes bare minimum for speed runs, it varies based on the group leader but after all is said and done it's their choice. Is that "fair", maybe not, probably not. "Explain to me why I need X" also doesn't matter. Nobody is owed anything here. The party leader doesn't owe you an invite or explanation even because you've backed them into a corner to justify why they're only looking for players meeting certain criteria. I don't think anyone is arguing that you could very well accomplish it with less, but the people creating those parties don't care and aren't obliged to be what you construe as reasonable with their requirements.

As I said your argument isn't uncommon but what are you really saying? "I demand you justify yourself to me and if you can't and I win the argument then you must invite me to the party you're forming." ?

This exactly. It doesn't even matter why the party leader has certain standards. It could be female Miqo'te redheads only, whatever. If I don't fit the criteria then I don't go with that party.
#29 Oct 21 2013 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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No one else finds it funny that the OP harps about other people being elitists in-game but is acting like one himself in his posts?
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#30 Oct 21 2013 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yelta wrote:
Furiousnixon wrote:
I actually didn't even consider what part of what you were doing as it doesn't matter. The people forming those parties are setting the expectations based on what they want them to be or what they feel is adequate (for them) for the runs over and above simple completion. There is no standard set of expectations here as to what constitutes bare minimum for speed runs, it varies based on the group leader but after all is said and done it's their choice. Is that "fair", maybe not, probably not. "Explain to me why I need X" also doesn't matter. Nobody is owed anything here. The party leader doesn't owe you an invite or explanation even because you've backed them into a corner to justify why they're only looking for players meeting certain criteria. I don't think anyone is arguing that you could very well accomplish it with less, but the people creating those parties don't care and aren't obliged to be what you construe as reasonable with their requirements.

As I said your argument isn't uncommon but what are you really saying? "I demand you justify yourself to me and if you can't and I win the argument then you must invite me to the party you're forming." ?

This exactly. It doesn't even matter why the party leader has certain standards. It could be female Miqo'te redheads only, whatever. If I don't fit the criteria then I don't go with that party.


This right here! Why does it matter that people making party with certain requirements? Sometimes me and my FC make a CM run with Miqo'te + relic + swimsuit only (no we did not use DF), we did it for fun.
#31 Oct 21 2013 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
No one else finds it funny that the OP harps about other people being elitists in-game but is acting like one himself in his posts?



this whole thread is ******* ridiculous tbh. but yeah. that.
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#32 Oct 21 2013 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
No one else finds it funny that the OP harps about other people being elitists in-game but is acting like one himself in his posts?

I know I'm of the mind that kindness goes out the door when people want to discriminate against you from the get-go. It's not like this problem is new to MMOs, though, and it's ultimately endorsed by devs when maintaining a prestige element of progression without alternatives for people who don't want to put up with the ****** social atmosphere. Playing the moral high ground either gets you nowhere or significantly slows your progress. But tolerating this **** also rewards their bad behavior. That can be enough to reach a boiling point, and doubly so if you've seen this happen to multiple games like I have. The same old tired justification attempts still don't make people on the receiving end feel better, either.
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#33 Oct 21 2013 at 10:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
My favorite are CM speed runs, the second to last story dungeon. You must have relic/full DL jewlery before people will let you join a level 50 dungeon that a whm can tank the whole thing with just AF armor.
I don't agree with this being a catch 22, the problem is that a speed run in its very definition requires certain elements to be speedy (as the name implies), otherwise you simply have a CM run, while a team in full AF lvl 49 weapons can perfectly complete that dungeon it won't be as fast as a full DL/relic team. it isn't a catch 22 because you have a myriad of ways to farm ToP and CM speed run is not a requirement for your relic.

Perhaps what you mean is that as a WHM( or healer in general) you don't need a relic to join a speed run, or rather not having a relic won't slow a speed run, while it maybe true as a leader I would rather avoid complains from other people in the group by inviting a person without a relic, since I'm basically demanding that from everyone else.

People shouting for relics in order to join a Hydra run are merely asking for help, because anyone getting inside hydra with a relic is literally getting nothing out of the run.

Although I agree that the game atmosphere shows some elitism that we as a community should not accept at any extent.
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#34 Oct 22 2013 at 2:35 AM Rating: Default
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What year were you using doing this? You have to remember at one point war was over powered. Nothing could take hate from it and you needed that sub.
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#35 Oct 22 2013 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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dustinfoley wrote:


Needless to say I got my first AK run done for my relic, by lieing and saying it wasn't my first time (which they figured out when we entered the last boss and i got the mapping achievement), and just reading the guide online so i wasn't clueless....You know what happened....nothing....we cleared the zone in like 25 minutes, Only died once to the bard backing up and agroing a Dahulan he couldnt see. Demon wall died at first set of adds, last boss died before second add died. Nothing terrible happened, but i had no relic, just af gear + hq jewelry, and a lvl 50 gc weapon.


Are you healer? Healer's can get away with running it in the gear you mentioned, but there is a dd check in AK that really makes it difficult if not met. The DD you had must have been incredible to kill the last boss before that second add died. I was forced to do cm and prae speedruns to get some better gear, and get ifrit cudgel to drop before I felt like I could reliably compete in AK (this was a month ago). I've ran that dungeon at least 25 times since and now have relic +1 and the fastest I've beat that final boss is about 10 seconds after that second add died. And this is with a group that beat the demon wall just as the bees spawned. If you were dd in that battle with a lvl 50 gc weapon those times could simply not be achieved, even if the other dd was relic +1 and really on his game.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2013 9:46am by Valkayree
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#36 Oct 22 2013 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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I've been searching for a term for this type of arguing lately that generally ends in pulling out the angry signs and pitch forks decrying everything as elitist... hmm

Reverse elitism? Casualism? idk... needs some pondering.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2013 11:31am by Furiousnixon
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#37 Oct 22 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
****, nowadays when I run with my FC, we go WHM, PLD, Relic BRD and me (Relic +1 DRG) and we don't even touch the bees. PLD vokes them, we LB the boss and it dies a couple seconds later.

On the topic of Catch 22, it's not so unless those requirements are expected for simple completion. If people were consistently trolling the DF looking for relic groups to simply get the clear, that would be unacceptable. But if someone is shouting to form a group for the speedruns, that is perfectly fine. If the demands are too ridiculous, people simply won't join.

It's similar to (incoming FFXI comparison, go-go-gadget-flameshield) some of the Delve shouts after XI's last expansion. The moment Tojil was killed, every shout group instantly started requiring Oatixur MNK's. This was obviously unrealistic, as only 1 or 2 people had them, so they ended up shouting for hours and finally settling on a measly Delve h2h MNK. It's the pt leader's perogative.
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#38ShadowedgeFFXI, Posted: Oct 22 2013 at 9:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you're planning to watch all the CS's, prepare yourself for the most vile comments imaginable, threats, insults, and worse. Plus you'd probably lose half the party if you were serious about it. You have my support, ***** your party so those people who have done CM and PR runs 1,000 times have to wait though 30min of CS's.
#39 Oct 22 2013 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
A it really 30 mins of cutscenes?

I can't think of any other part of the game with that many cutscenes.
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#40 Oct 22 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
A it really 30 mins of cutscenes?

I can't think of any other part of the game with that many cutscenes.


I haven't brought out the clock, but between CM and PR...there are a ton of CS. The ending is long as **** too, but luckily by that time, everyone has left. If you want to **** people off, go ahead and watch them. You should see the comments I do for people that watch one short CS. "Hey noob, you can watch them in the inn, stop f*cking wasting our time". I personally wanted to quit the day I "beat the game" because of this and that was like 1 month ago. The elitism in FFXIV is terrible. It's far worse than FFXI.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2013 11:10am by ShadowedgeFFXI
#41 Oct 22 2013 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Thayos wrote:


Woohooo, I am getting close to that point in the story! Can't wait until the fireworks when I watch my cutscenes, ha.


If you're planning to watch all the CS's, prepare yourself for the most vile comments imaginable, threats, insults, and worse. Plus you'd probably lose half the party if you were serious about it. You have my support, ***** your party so those people who have done CM and PR runs 1,000 times have to wait though 30min of CS's.


Considering how pointless it is to speed run CM/Prae now when Wanderer's Palace and Amdapor Keep require less people, less time, and produce just as many philo tokens while also rewarding myth tokens, I don't think he will run into that problem.
#42 Oct 22 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Arcari wrote:


Considering how pointless it is to speed run CM/Prae now when Wanderer's Palace and Amdapor Keep require less people, less time, and produce just as many philo tokens while also rewarding myth tokens, I don't think he will run into that problem.


That's true, maybe he'll get lucky. It was really stupid of SE to align story dungeons with farming ones though. Because of the recent changes, you're probably right. For his sake, I hope you're right.
#43 Oct 22 2013 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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Ya CM is useless now that WP awards tokens. You can bulldoze (as in not skip anything) WP in about... 5-6 pulls plus bosses in 15-20 min and it awards a pittance of gil (which will cover your repairs, always nice), 100 phil and 30 myth, plus some junk gear you can dump on your GC vendor for 150~ GC tokens here and there, which is also nice.

AK can be run with sac pulls in ahh... 25 min (I could be mis-remembering that timing) I guess for the same general outcome with less gil because you're skipping some things and 10 more myth.

If we're talking about AK v. WP I'd argue that because of the small stream of incoming gil and the speed at which you complete the run that a few WPs are better than a few AKs, and don't require clever sac pulling. This assumes you don't care about any gear from AK of course and that a few more or less GC seals from selling that gear don't matter to you.
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#44 Oct 22 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
A lot of this seems to be confusing elitism with impatience and douche-baggery. Requiring a Relic is elitism. Requiring full knowledge of the fight is elitism. Getting mad because people watch CS's is not elitism. Dropping a pt at the first sign of trouble is not elitism (since it may not actually end bad anyway).

FFXIV does have its share of elitism, but I've seen worse. The level of impatience from people is fairly staggering though.
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Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#45 Oct 22 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

That's true, maybe he'll get lucky. It was really stupid of SE to align story dungeons with farming ones though. Because of the recent changes, you're probably right. For his sake, I hope you're right.


It seems to me that they wanted to make sure that there would always be people in the duty finder for these story dungeons, but failed to take in to account that people grinding these runs will be trying to maximize their time.

That and how nasty people can be to their fellow players.
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#46 Oct 22 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't see too much of this "catch 22" stuff in Famfrit. There are certainly people putting together "geared only" runs. But seriously, after doing AK 50+ times to get geared; why in the world would you want to carry someone in full AF through it? Undergeared folk can run it slowly with other undergeared folk. Start your own party. Also; nobody farms CM anymore except those who failed to notice the most recent update.

Considering Duty Finder exists.... I really don't understand the OP's complaint. Believe it or not you -can- beat titan with duty finder parties =P

Edited, Oct 22nd 2013 12:51pm by HatPower
#47 Oct 22 2013 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
For his sake, I hope you're right.


Unless my boss is a secret FFXIV D-bag gamer who happens to get matched up with me, then I absolutely do not care what anyone says.

As far as I'm concerned, people who want to speed run can set up their own parties without leaning on the DF.
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#48 Oct 22 2013 at 10:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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So when I did CM and Prae, I watched all the cutscenes. I got one comment towards the end of CM, but it wasn't anything vile or hateful... more bemused.

Prae was kind of a roller coaster of cutscene collision though as the walking distance between cutscenes can be very short in some places...

As for "30 minutes of cutscenes" ... no. Just.. just no. Not even close. Each cutscene lasts for, maybe, 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Unless you're pulling out the dictionary and looking up all the words they're saying, it isn't taking anyone 30 minutes to get through cutscenes.
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#49 Oct 22 2013 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
IKickYoDog wrote:
Llester wrote:
what happened, zam? what happened?


Generation Me.


We just think it's a new generation, when honestly, our parents thought the same of us...and their parents thought the same of them, etc. It'll just keep going, and going. New problem? Has to be the way these kids were raised!
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#50 Oct 22 2013 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
I am part of the new "GenMe" and even I get fed up with it sometimes.
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Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#51 Oct 22 2013 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
Llester wrote:
what happened, zam? what happened?

Generation Me.

We just think it's a new generation, when honestly, our parents thought the same of us...and their parents thought the same of them, etc. It'll just keep going, and going. New problem? Has to be the way these kids were raised!

Yes every generation thinks the generations following them are worse than when they were growing up, but until the last 20-30 years parents weren't handing out participation trophies & hammering the idea that "it's your world & everyone else is just living in it" into their kid's heads, turning them into lifelong narcissistic monsters.
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