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#1 Oct 27 2013 at 11:54 PM Rating: Excellent
FFXIV's endgame community really does seem to suck.

I've only done one CM run and one Prae run... not even anything meant for gear beyond level 50... and the amount of impatience, whining and general prickery I've encountered already is SHOCKING.

Finger-pointing, name-calling, forced DCs, people complaining about gear choices... all in two runs.

The sad thing is, most people who play this game are fine. However, if there are enough bad apples to pack so much whiny drama into two randomly chosen runs, then... ****. I've read about this issue on the forums, but, honestly, I thought people were just being overly dramatic!

It really is that bad, isn't it?
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#2 Oct 28 2013 at 12:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's really not the majority. It's the Mor Dhona campers that leave everyone with a sour taste. These are the same intelligent and quality individuals who spend two hours shouting for Relic+1 WP/AK/CM/Prae speed runs when they could have taken a competent and reasonably geared player and been done several times over by the time they actually get that person.

I've actually taken to using DF more for my WP/AK/Primal runs since the 2.05 patch, as people are generally friendlier and less caring about someone making a mistake or whatnot. In addition, a good deal of people have already run these instances on another job, so there's fewer inexperienced players by the day. I honestly don't care if we're done in 15 or 30, it's less painful. I'm not here to stress, i'm here to enjoy. Titan is another matter, that's best left to pre-forms.

Pretty much every NA server has complained about the toxicity of the endgame community thus far, but there's really not much that can be done about it except wait until things spread out more in terms of possible activities or some of these people head out for their next flavor of the month.

Edited, Oct 27th 2013 11:13pm by Dallie

Edited, Oct 27th 2013 11:23pm by Dallie
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#3 Oct 28 2013 at 12:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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End game does suck imho. If you use DF for just about anything you are asking for it. I am getting tired of the complaining about speed, or omg you dont have relic +1 and full DL or what not. Some ppl are fresh 50 and are just starting out. I am appalled by the animosity twords other fresher lv 50s or those of us that dont have certain pieces of gear. I hate to get into a group only to be berated cause I dont have my relic or +1 version of it. They make it seem like nothing can be done without being over grared for the content. Yes we all know you have run it a bajillion times and you want to be done asap, but not everyone is you, and if thats what you want make a static for said content. (not pointed at anyone person but ****** speed runners). Give the fresher ppl some time, and help them along, or there wont be many left at endgame except elitests
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#4 Oct 28 2013 at 12:26 AM Rating: Good
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Dallie wrote:
I've actually taken to using DF more for my WP/AK/Primal runs since the 2.05 patch, as people are generally friendlier and less caring about someone making a mistake or whatnot. In addition, a good deal of people have already run these instances on another job, so there's less and less experienced players by the day. I honestly don't care if we're done in 15 or 30, it's less painful. I'm not here to stress, i'm here to enjoy.


Glad I'm not the only one.

I will almost always jump on my healer and DF instead of looking at Revenant's Toll shouts because I have seen so much unwarranted elitism in those groups. I mean, it's one thing if you act elitist and actually have the stuff to back it up. More often than not, I've seen this rampant elitism in people who just suck at what they do and really have no room to talk at all.

On average, WP takes a DF group ~23 minutes it seems. I've done the speed runs with my FC which makes it around 15-17 minutes. I have yet to see any of these alleged elite groups manage that because they always end up wiping on a big pull. And then they'll start pointing fingers, placing blame elsewhere, etc.

Two of the multiple 23 minute runs were with a paladin using a level 1 ring and another paladin using full AF. Both paladins were 110% better than any random server PUG paladin I've run with. I was quite impressed.

Would you rather spend 6 extra minutes in a stress-free run with amiable people? Or would you prefer to be in a group with antsy players with a high probability of wiping, making the run take longer in the end?


I was hoping the patch, with better incentives for WP, would weed out some of the asshats from CM and Praetorium but it does not seem to be the case. :\ Thayos experienced it, a crafting friend of mine who just hit 50 experienced it today, and 3 other people over the weekend that I have talked to have also had this problem.

Edited, Oct 28th 2013 2:28am by HitomeOfBismarck
#5 Oct 28 2013 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Meant to say 'less and less inexperienced players', corrected!! Lol.
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#6 Oct 28 2013 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Dallie wrote:
I've actually taken to using DF more for my WP/AK/Primal runs since the 2.05 patch, as people are generally friendlier and less caring about someone making a mistake or whatnot. In addition, a good deal of people have already run these instances on another job, so there's less and less experienced players by the day. I honestly don't care if we're done in 15 or 30, it's less painful. I'm not here to stress, i'm here to enjoy.


Glad I'm not the only one.

I will almost always jump on my healer and DF instead of looking at Revenant's Toll shouts because I have seen so much unwarranted elitism in those groups. I mean, it's one thing if you act elitist and actually have the stuff to back it up. More often than not, I've seen this rampant elitism in people who just suck at what they do and really have no room to talk at all.

On average, WP takes a DF group ~23 minutes it seems. I've done the speed runs with my FC which makes it around 15-17 minutes. I have yet to see any of these alleged elite groups manage that because they always end up wiping on a big pull. And then they'll start pointing fingers, placing blame elsewhere, etc.

Two of the multiple 23 minute runs were with a paladin using a level 1 ring and another paladin using full AF. Both paladins were 110% better than any random server PUG paladin I've run with. I was quite impressed.

Would you rather spend 6 extra minutes in a stress-free run with amiable people? Or would you prefer to be in a group with antsy players with a high probability of wiping, making the run take longer in the end?


I was hoping the patch, with better incentives for WP, would weed out some of the asshats from CM and Praetorium but it does not seem to be the case. :\ Thayos experienced it, a crafting friend of mine who just hit 50 experienced it today, and 3 other people over the weekend that I have talked to have also had this problem.

Edited, Oct 28th 2013 2:28am by HitomeOfBismarck


Well there's always going to be jerks, but it seems since more people are using DF now for AK/WP some of the friendlier folks are sifting in there, so it's been a much more pleasant experience than say the first month of the game.

I concur, it's just not worth the headache of dealing with Mor Dhona most of the time, with the exception of trying to get a Garuda/Titan run together.
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#7 Oct 28 2013 at 12:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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so it's been a much more pleasant experience than say the first month of the game.


Wow, so the community is BETTER than it was, and it still sucks?

What SE really needs to implement is an age filter. I want to be able to queue up in the DF and play with other 30-somethings, and not have to have my buzz killed by some repressed, hormonal teenage gamer.

Is that too much to ask?
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#8 Oct 28 2013 at 12:58 AM Rating: Good
I think the DF at this point has players who have recently reached endgame, and aren't going to criticize anyone since they themselves are new. So you normally end up with a slow going, easy going party.

I often join DF parties for AK and WP and I usually the only one with any DL gear or a relic. It usually takes 5 mins more than the average runs, and if you explain things in advance, there's usually 0 deaths. I'm not sure what the answer to all this is, I've run my fair share of just about everything this game as to offer and have only run into a few asshats here and there, overall it's been a very positive experience. I'm even tempted to say FFXI had bigger douche bags in the community. The whole community knew it and people STILL helped them out (Roundhouse on Unicorn, I'm looking at you).

Thing is with XIV, I think you're generally meeting far more people through your adventures leading to more encounters with ********* XI had populated servers at the start for sure, but you'd always seem to run into the same people on your journey to 75 and through endgame. And anyone still running Prae or CM for tomes (short of a change of pace), and for speed runs is obviously an idiot since you can hammer out WP in 15 mins now.
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#9 Oct 28 2013 at 1:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
so it's been a much more pleasant experience than say the first month of the game.


Wow, so the community is BETTER than it was, and it still sucks?

What SE really needs to implement is an age filter. I want to be able to queue up in the DF and play with other 30-somethings, and not have to have my buzz killed by some repressed, hormonal teenage gamer.

Is that too much to ask?

Yes, because I can guarantee that you'll get just as many 30+ ********* as you get 20- ones.
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but there's really not much that can be done about it

There is, and I wonder why SE didn't implement it yet. Just give me a cross-server BL, and
I'll be done with impatient lunatics in a buttonpress. Btw, yesterday I joined a random party
for the Chimera fight. We wiped 3 times because I failed to stun the deadly AOEs in time.
No problem. Now I would say Japanese players are just friendlier, but I also had my share
of ***** in Japanese DF parties... whom I could avoid (in the long run) with a cross-server
blacklist. Right now my best weapon is the "leave party" button.
#10 Oct 28 2013 at 1:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think it's an age thing.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of players are just plain tired of the grind on those level 50 dungeons.


I don't understand why SE left the lucrative Philosophy rewards in CM and Praetorium. It just seems silly that storyline content is also used for endgame grinding.
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#11 Oct 28 2013 at 1:11 AM Rating: Excellent
Kirby wrote:
I don't think it's an age thing.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of players are just plain tired of the grind on those level 50 dungeons.


I don't understand why SE left the lucrative Philosophy rewards in CM and Praetorium. It just seems silly that storyline content is also used for endgame grinding.


Thing is WP and AK net you as many now, so you have 0 reason to do either or. WP is also significantly faster.
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#12 Oct 28 2013 at 1:34 AM Rating: Excellent
I think age has a lot to do with it. For a teenager (or even someone in the low 20s), grinding these endgame dungeons really may feel like one of the most important things that person will do each day. However, once you get older and take on real responsibilities, you realize how silly it is to get so worked up over a game.

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#13 Oct 28 2013 at 1:37 AM Rating: Good
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My suggestion is the same one people suggest on FFXI.
Find a good Free Company/Linkshell and make some friends.
Lots of good ones out there on every server, just have to be willing to find them.
#14 Oct 28 2013 at 1:48 AM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
I think age has a lot to do with it. For a teenager (or even someone in the low 20s), grinding these endgame dungeons really may feel like one of the most important things that person will do each day. However, once you get older and take on real responsibilities, you realize how silly it is to get so worked up over a game.


I totally agree with you.

I helped someone of my LS get past Brayflox. All went well till last boss. We kept loosing and loosing. I kept telling what went wrong and what not. After I dont know how many tries we finally win. 4 mintues left on the clock. So I and my LS mate are happy and congrat the other two....nothing, they say nothing. They werent in CS or anything cause after a few they both walk to the chest opened it and left the DF. So sad. And then there`s the runs ive did with tons, tons of drama over gear and what not.......

Im in a nice LS/FC with friends I made in XI but they are from the USA and Im from Holland. Im a dad now so my play hours are limited and limited to certain hours which makes it nearly impossible to play with my LS/FC. The community outside your LS/FC is sick/twisted/rude/immature and what not. Its shocking


Thinking about quitting. Havent played since friday and to be honost, I dont miss it at all.
#15 Oct 28 2013 at 2:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
I think age has a lot to do with it. For a teenager (or even someone in the low 20s), grinding these endgame dungeons really may feel like one of the most important things that person will do each day. However, once you get older and take on real responsibilities, you realize how silly it is to get so worked up over a game.


The sad thing is, if you try to take the initiative in telling someone what they might do with their gear, rotation or positioning to improve; most of the time you get a snarky "don't tell me how to play my job" comment or they ragequit and duck out or d/c from the dungeon. When does the 'vote to kick' feature make it's debut? Smiley: sly


Edited, Oct 28th 2013 4:39am by FilthMcNasty
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#16 Oct 28 2013 at 3:13 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
I think age has a lot to do with it. For a teenager (or even someone in the low 20s), grinding these endgame dungeons really may feel like one of the most important things that person will do each day. However, once you get older and take on real responsibilities, you realize how silly it is to get so worked up over a game.
You can take it the other way though, lol.

I do enjoy the game, but would rather not do something inefficiently for 3-4 hours, when I could get it done in half that time and move onto something else I also enjoy.
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#17 Oct 28 2013 at 3:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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FFXIV's endgame community really does seem to suck.

I've only done one CM run and one Prae run...


Well, to be fair that's not really endgame. Those two dunegeons are really your first steps into the content at 50, and should be left behind as quickly as you can. For the exact reasons that you've discovered: there are stupid people who are still farming them.

On the plus side things will improve once you get clear of Prae and CM. At the moment CM is going to be collecting the dregs of the playerbase who are still convinced that CM is the best way to farm Philo, these are the idiots you're coming across. The majority of people have moved on already (to WP). Save yourself the trouble and don't go back to Prae and CM unless you have to, or are doing them with an FC group.

My advice is: gear yourself up in AF, decent lvl 50-55 gear via the market, a weapon from GC or the market, and leave CM and Prae in your dust.
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#18 Oct 28 2013 at 3:45 AM Rating: Good
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It's all a bit toxic yeah. It's anoying and depressing, i've not reached the mythology weekly cap even once. Just cant get myself to do those dungeons when people fight over the most minor of things.

It's a good idea though, that cap. After a while, all the ********* will be capped out on points and move on, and other people will run the dungeons with maybe a little more common sense and kindness.

I'd be all for double points but with the same cap. Less weekly runs, and the sooner all the jerks get flushed out and the road opens up for the rest of us.
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#19 Oct 28 2013 at 5:02 AM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
FFXIV's endgame community really does seem to suck.

I've only done one CM run and one Prae run... not even anything meant for gear beyond level 50... and the amount of impatience, whining and general prickery I've encountered already is SHOCKING.

Finger-pointing, name-calling, forced DCs, people complaining about gear choices... all in two runs.

The sad thing is, most people who play this game are fine. However, if there are enough bad apples to pack so much whiny drama into two randomly chosen runs, then... ****. I've read about this issue on the forums, but, honestly, I thought people were just being overly dramatic!

It really is that bad, isn't it?


Make friends, if you can. If you queue with randoms you're playing with people that have problems making friends, what else do you expect to happen?
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#20 Oct 28 2013 at 5:33 AM Rating: Good
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Ever played DOTA on low priority? the attitude of far too many level 50 players matches it almost exactly, I kinda feel we need praise/report function , this would hopefully bring all the nice people together while all the asshats eventually end up playing with each other in low priority ****.
#21 Oct 28 2013 at 5:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wow, I guess it's way better on Leviathan. Or maybe I just have insane luck. Either way, I can count on one hand the number of times I've had experiences like this at 50. And I've done several hundred runs of all the end game stuff except for Coil, much of it through DF.
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#22 Oct 28 2013 at 5:41 AM Rating: Good
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Vitriolic wrote:
Ever played DOTA on low priority? the attitude of far too many level 50 players matches it almost exactly, I kinda feel we need praise/report function , this would hopefully bring all the nice people together while all the asshats eventually end up playing with each other in low priority ****.

All that would do is basicly make the nice people report the bad ones for being asshats. But will also make the asshats report the nice people for lack of "skill" or wasting "their" time. Dont think that would solve anything in the end. Just make nice people get punished for any small mistake or mishap.
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#23 Oct 28 2013 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
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The endgame is pretty bad, but it does seem to be getting better, not much, but better none the less. Majority of the time I only do AK or WP when a LS or FC member is looking to do runs. Runs w/ LS or FC members are a total blast.

It seems the DF groups i have been getting lately have not been completely infested w/ elitist ********, may be one or two, but nothing i can't just completely ignore by striking up a friendly light-hearted conversation with the other members.
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#24 Oct 28 2013 at 6:42 AM Rating: Good
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Any form of praise/report system will 100% guaranted be abused. Why you may ask? Because that sadly IS human nature for many many personalities.
Never give the community the power or else they will..I guarantee you, abuse it. (Not all of course but I fear......a lot would)

Thats also why a vote kick system is good and bad. many legit afkers , griefers will be replaced but remember there will be many ppl kicked due for unjustified reasons. I can easily see groups of fc or ls majority wasiting to kick a member before last boss dies for loot,no matter what limitations they add ppl WILL find a loop hole, they always do.

I can see many being booted simply cause they are 12 dps lower then everyone else and since most rarely even question the vote to kick, mindlessly agree to the kick (hive mentallity) etc. If/when this is added it will be a life saver for most groups and the tool for abuse for many others.

I have no fix for any endgame/any stage bad community behavior . It is very frustrating at times I agree op and have indeed witnessed some of it myself. It is rampid in every mmo I play, wow, ffxi,rift,tera and Im sure the list goes on and on. Server reputation as in other games only lessens this slightly, makes abuse "privater or quieter" BUT its definately there,nothing eradicates it.

I simply cross my fingers and hope for the best and realistically thats the best you can do.

I know there are very very nice ppl out there, but the cruel and belittling personalities seem to be the ones we all remember since their behavior stands out as so bizarre.

Will these bad encounters cause some to leave, you bet! But hopefully most will try to see past it and not let others ruin their own fun.
Many things may need to be repeated due to this fact but hopefully everyone can experiece/achieve all the hope to.
#25 Oct 28 2013 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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Bad communities are part of every mmos.

I've only been lvl 50 for less than 2 weeks, but I can say I was with elitist jerks in only 2 runs ( at 560 mythology and did about 20 ifrits runs and 2 garudas). Though, I was paired with bad players more than 2 times but if they don't act like jerk, I take the time to try to teach them and after a few wipe if there is no improvement I will just call it gg and thank everyone for trying.

Out of those 2 runs with jerk, one was with a "pro" marauder that started ******** when someone told him he shouldn't tank the garuda adds where he was tanking it. He got ******* started ******** and left during our next pull.

The other one was epic. It was in a WP run. Everything was going well, people didn't really talk and we got to second boss. We kill the boss on 1st try but it was a bit sloppy. Our caster died and on the last wave of adds, our whm had to aoe them down while the lancer was single dpsing an add. The lancer didn't bring his add near the whm and we barely won the fight. After the fight, our whm starts ******** at the lancer and our lancer retaliates. Our whm says: gg I don't do this to get whine at by noobs... and says he's going afk. But. He stays at his keyboard and continue talking ****. He doesn't heal and just makes us waste our time. I tell him, I don't care I'll wait the 45 minutes remaining and not leave so he can leave and reQ right away. I go read a book for 10 minutes and come back. Our caster had left the party, a new blm joined and they are trying last boss. I scroll up and read the chat. Our WHM apologized and they decided to move on. So after they wiped, I tanked last boss and we killed it 1st try.

You will come across d-bags, elitists, assh0les... It's part of the internet. But, in my case, it doesn't happen a lot. I use duty finder for almost 95% of the runs I do.
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#26 Oct 28 2013 at 7:35 AM Rating: Default
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I think a lot of these asshats are WoW players. enough said
#27 Oct 28 2013 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent
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i remember when these forums were about discussing game mechanics/strategies/gearing, etc.

now its just...threads like these all the time. ah well. anyway, you just got unlucky, most of the community is fine. i havent had a **** party in weeks.

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I think a lot of these asshats are WoW players. enough said


yeah! enough said! you're an idiot.

Edited, Oct 28th 2013 10:14am by Llester
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#28 Oct 28 2013 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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derneis wrote:
I think a lot of these asshats are WoW players. enough said


So many of those comments saying WoW players are asshats. A lot of people in WoW were nice and good players. Just like in any other MMO. The only reason there was MORE asshats in WoW is because more people played the game but the percentage of asshats in WoW vs other MMOs was probably the same.
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#29 Oct 28 2013 at 8:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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derneis wrote:
I think a lot of these asshats are WoW players. enough said


Yes, because we all know that people acting like complete douchebags in online multiplayer games was never, EVER a thing until WoW came along Smiley: rolleyes


Edited, Oct 28th 2013 10:19am by RajiFarlander
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#30 Oct 28 2013 at 8:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
I think age has a lot to do with it. For a teenager (or even someone in the low 20s), grinding these endgame dungeons really may feel like one of the most important things that person will do each day. However, once you get older and take on real responsibilities, you realize how silly it is to get so worked up over a game.



I think it really has everything to do with the friends you make in the game. Unfortunately, to keep those friend you have to log on at least a few hours each day, but if you know that others are genuinely interested in your progression (either for your sake or theirs) then it gives you motivation to continue playing. For me, I am in my 30s, and it is still my cheapest form of entertainment when I have nothing else to do.
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#31 Oct 28 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Default
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I'm easy going in wp ifrit grauda, I don't do cm or para. But if I'm doing ak and there is a person that's in af I suggest we go to wp at that point if they say no I excuse myself from the party and wish them luck.

The reason I do this is due to limited.

I play in the morning before work, I live with my gf and we share the tv and I don't play till she leaves the house at 11. This gives me roughly 2.5 hours to play a day. And every time I go in to ak with a fresh 50 dps or tank the run takes about a hour. And due to this I do set high requirements if I'm starting a ak party and won't invite people that don't have a relic weapon. Might take 20 to set up but we can get in 3 to 4 runs in the same time I takes me to do one run with the af group
#32 Oct 28 2013 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
Domice, I don't really mind that. You can kindly excuse yourself from any situation in life... Well, at least those things that are just for entertainment.

I did something similar recently when I left a Brayflox party... But I wasn't being unreasonable or douchebaggy.

Edited, Oct 28th 2013 7:53am by Thayos
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#33 Oct 28 2013 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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On Excalibur yesterday I did Titan HM on DF with ifrits weapon and 1 piece of DL gear and Not 1 person complained... which was awesome because the the Garuda fight before the fight I actually won all left because I said it was my first time lol... Yes I said Hi guys this is my first run here... boom boom boom boom all left lol

My point is it seems there are just as many random acts of kindness as there are random acts of douchbagery. If I can do relic quest with Ifrit's and 1 DL all the way to the final fight (Titan) Then I must be doing something right, even if it's a very small something... Sometimes its not the gear that gets you by... sometimes its the player.

You can Have Full DL or Vanya/Darksteele with relic + 1 if you cant doge a move by Titan then your just as equal as a guy with Ifrit's weapon and 1 DL piece

Oh ya.. No I didn't win Titan lol 10x only 1x to stage 5 lol I needs me Garuda weapon lol and so did the 3 other DD that were less geared than I was lol LIVE AND LEARN !
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#34 Oct 28 2013 at 8:58 AM Rating: Excellent


I guess MMOs just attract more douchebags these days.

I was thinking, perhaps I should state a DB disclaimer at the start of each run. Like, if anyone acts like a DB toward anyone, then I'm out. Seriously, I would rather not play for 15 minutes than provide my tanking support for a DB.
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#35 Oct 28 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:


I guess MMOs just attract more douchebags these days.

I was thinking, perhaps I should state a DB disclaimer at the start of each run. Like, if anyone acts like a DB toward anyone, then I'm out. Seriously, I would rather not play for 15 minutes than provide my tanking support for a DB.


Why not ? If ppl can tell you what to wear or how to play I see no reason why you can't tell ppl not to be Douche bags <--- word of the day

You can only take so much Whiny remarks in a day before you snap


Edited, Oct 28th 2013 11:13am by JeremyPD55
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#36 Oct 28 2013 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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The people who are asshats in DF deserve all the blist and down rating a game can accommodate. Beggars can't be choosers.

If you have some particular set of requirements, don't use DF. It literally makes no sense to drop into a crowd of 3 or 7 other unsuspecting individuals and then to be like "Ok I'm in charge now, I demand you all have the following and if not I'll destroy this group by leaving!" It's a little late to be setting out pre-conditions to running with people.... I mean that's why they're "pre" conditions.

I should state I have no problem with people requiring two star food and Relic +99 and solid gold underwear for runs but that should be done manually by way of shouts to gather together like minded gold underwear wearers, not at the expense of random unsuspecting strangers in a system whose sole purpose in life is to group together random unsuspecting strangers with only one assumption possibly made, that being, "we're all here to complete this content." No more, no less, no reading between the lines, no adding words like "quickly" or "as extremely over geared characters", just completing it.

This issue is kind of a two way street also. It's wrong for people to harass and complain about those in shout who have different requirements for the dungeons they run, and I've seen it happen often in shout arguments. The people who criticize (and berate) those who are forming parties in shout to their own specifications are just as guilty of douche baggery as those who drop into DF parties expecting that it will be over 9000.

Edited, Oct 28th 2013 11:36am by Furiousnixon

Edited, Oct 28th 2013 11:38am by Furiousnixon
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#37 Oct 28 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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The one thing I like about going into the DF as a tank is, there is a good chance I will get a healer like me (that enjoys the run more than they need the points), and so, which only leaves the DDs as possible DBs. And if one shows themselves, they usually leave the party by the first boss, and are replaced (90% of the time) with a more amicable player.

My favorite was, I did a DF run on WP, and at the birds before the first pugil, I waited for the tonberry to pass. Not a bad idea for a DF run, and gives you all the time you need, with no further possible delays. It is actually the way I learned the run, and I have found it to be a good way to gauge a party (Since then, I have learned that if you can kill one of the first two birds before the tonberry moves, you are fast enough to out-run the tonberry).

One of the DDs said the pt was moving too slow, so they left (incuring a 15 minute wait). A new person popped in within 1 minute, and we finished the dungeon in <15 minutes (So, before the person could queue up again). We had a good laugh at the DBs choice.

When they add in player ratings I have a feeling things will get a little more polarizing. You will get people who are even more impatient (Sucks when you DF with a full pt of a FC that needs a pickup healer or tank, not sure how DDs feel), but you may also find parties where people actually enjoy a group that plays for the enjoyment of playing.

I already know that I will never vote for anyone who complains about party speed, nor will I vote for any DD that dies to trash mobs. I will however always vote positive for pretty much every other pt member, and from there, will figure out a rating scale of some sort, and hopefully will be able to live up to other peoples standards.

But yeah, I would say over 50% of my DF parties has at least 1 DB. So there are still more amicable players than DBs, but, I wouldn't call them rare... They are pretty common.

I even know a few personally that I try to avoid pting with. It is really rough when you are learning something, and they tell you to either go as a DD so they can carry you, or they spend 5 minutes telling you how you should avoid a move as a tank because you get hit by a slipstream at the same spot every time (The tornado phase of Garuda, which I have since learned from another player (who spent 30 seconds at the start of a fight explaining it) that if you tank her at the flags, it is 100% avoidable, but if you tank her by the rocks, it is a pain to avoid).
#38 Oct 28 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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It is just way people say things that rubs me wrong. I join a DF garuda group as WHM. I have beaten her twice and been in a failed group once. This time seemed to start smooth enough, but the first time we wiped during the clones. The other white mage had hate and died, then it gradually went downhill.

The second time they switched tanks to the warrior, who we could barely keep alive. Then again, when we got to the clones, one came whailing on me after a cure (could not take attention off of warrior half a second).

Afterwards someone makes the comment, "I thought finding good healers would be the easy part". The warrior says "Their gear is terrible and they have no idea what they are doing".

My first response what that I thought I was ok for this fight because I have beaten it a couple of times and my gear is better than it was then (im completely out of AF, with a couple of DL and most of the rest is AK gear). Their response was that I was carried through those fights. Then he says, thats ok because after the update later in the month there will be gear requirements in DF and you can't be carried anymore.

At that point I shared my dissapointment which the sheer number of asshats this game draws. His response was basically, that it isn't his fault my gear sucks. I told him that my gear may not be good enough for this fight, but I thought it was. So a simple suggestion to aquire more Darklight gear first, or a strategy tip, would hav been perfectly fine. No need to be a douchebag about it.

I guess it also irked me that the main one doing the ******** was the warrior who 1. cause the whms to accrue so much emnity in the first place and 2. Could not get hate off of the whms when he wasn't the main tank.

I'm not a perfect player. When I get advice, I heed it and get better from it. If you have certain gear or experience requirements, don't use DF. If you do, you have no right to be a ****.

It isn't easy to hone every strategy to every fight and execute to perfection every time you run it. It takes practice. And as far as gear goes - if you play the game and follow the story lines, they send you straight on to Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan. We have to rely on advice from friends and the internet to know that we are geared too low to survive certain fights.

When I first hit 50 and finished storyline quest, it took me a lot of asking around to find out that I really should start with the Wanderers Palace. I didn't even have that one unlocked when I finished the storyline quests. I didn't know where or how to get Darklight gear. Or when it would be time for that upgrade.

One of the most frustrating things was the day I finished my AF quests, so many people would tell me that my gear was terrible and I needed to upgrade. I was like, holy crap man - I just got the gear a few hours ago. Give me a chance to see it first.

Also, just an observation, but most battles that I have lost have been due to poorly executed plans - as opposed to bad gear. There are some occasions where things don't die fast enough to or people don't survive a big blast because of gear - but 9 out of 10 times the wipe is due to execution.





Edited, Oct 28th 2013 10:57am by Mithsavvy
#39 Oct 28 2013 at 9:54 AM Rating: Default
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Kirby wrote:
I don't think it's an age thing.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of players are just plain tired of the grind on those level 50 dungeons.


I don't understand why SE left the lucrative Philosophy rewards in CM and Praetorium. It just seems silly that storyline content is also used for endgame grinding.


Thing is WP and AK net you as many now, so you have 0 reason to do either or. WP is also significantly faster.


Yeah, since WP is designed to be done after you finish Praetorium. It's the first end-game dungeon and usually people are getting yelled at/kicked for doing so since let's not forget the gear level it drops is a step above AF gear. So yeah, WP is faster only if you go in fully decked out, otherwise it's pretty standard but fun...well, as fun as it could be with this horrendous community.

The thing is though, SE never intended people to do CM/Praetorium for tomes purely, it was more like handing your first 200 points to get you started, then they expected you to Grind WP and AK (which is why as early as Stone Vigil you started getting points.) As usual, the players just took something and made it a cesspool/good use for it. Even though we have a reported "1.5m active accounts" CM/Praetorium is quite dead and new people start to get stuck in mid level - final dungeons now due to looooooooooooooooooooooooong queues.
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#40 Oct 28 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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JeremyPD55 wrote:
On Excalibur yesterday I did Titan HM on DF with ifrits weapon and 1 piece of DL gear and Not 1 person complained... which was awesome because the the Garuda fight before the fight I actually won all left because I said it was my first time lol... Yes I said Hi guys this is my first run here... boom boom boom boom all left lol

My point is it seems there are just as many random acts of kindness as there are random acts of douchbagery. If I can do relic quest with Ifrit's and 1 DL all the way to the final fight (Titan) Then I must be doing something right, even if it's a very small something... Sometimes its not the gear that gets you by... sometimes its the player.

You can Have Full DL or Vanya/Darksteele with relic + 1 if you cant doge a move by Titan then your just as equal as a guy with Ifrit's weapon and 1 DL piece

Oh ya.. No I didn't win Titan lol 10x only 1x to stage 5 lol I needs me Garuda weapon lol and so did the 3 other DD that were less geared than I was lol LIVE AND LEARN !


I beat titan with ifrit weapon and 1 or 2 dl accessories, but it was in shout party where we had 5 dps. With df I would suggest getting better gear just cuz it will give you a lot of breathing room
#41 Oct 28 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
Wow, I guess it's way better on Leviathan. Or maybe I just have insane luck. Either way, I can count on one hand the number of times I've had experiences like this at 50. And I've done several hundred runs of all the end game stuff except for Coil, much of it through DF.


Same here.

The negative comments and bickering is laughable, sometimes understandable, but most times uncalled for.

However I've had maybe 5 "bad" groups attitude wise out of hundreds. They just tend to stick in your craw, because of how ludicrous the people were behaving.

A lot of the on server pugs have been OK.

I hope the proposed karma system and time eventually weeds the more toxic players out.
#42 Oct 28 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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If people learned to severely curtail their expectations when using DF they'd be a lot happier. Not sure why it's a long sob story all the time. You win some you lose some when you roll the dice.

Know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em... And so everything devolves into a Kenny Rogers song.
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#43 Oct 28 2013 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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For my titan i was tanking, so my weapon (D37 Guild sword by the way) was pretty irrelevant as long as i simply stayed light on my feet and spammed my enmity moves.

I can understand the aspect of needing a specific weapon for a DPS class so you can do enough damage during the course of a battle not to time out on a heart or on spikes or whatever needs to be killed during a brief span of time, but for a healer or a tank, such a thing is rediculous.

Do people even know what they're talking about or what they're requesting? As a mediocre tank, you'd have what? 300 attack? while a damage dealer easily has 400-450 before their abilities kick in too?

Every 7.4 points of STR equal a 1 damage increase in your base weapon damage. So you'd basicly be willing to kick a tank, or replace one, with all the defense and hp needed for the fight just because of 8 STR? Attack power is mostly irrelevant for a tank if they can keep hate. They really wont be contributing towards the damage aspect of the fight anyhow. And if Relic+1 people are unloading on something, believe me, 2-3 points of weapon damage for a tank wont mean anything. If hate gets torn off a tank with a D37 weapon, it's going to get torn off him with a D39, D41 or even D43 weapon. It's more of an ability timing thing.
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#44 Oct 28 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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If there was no iLV 50+ gear, people would eventually learn to play good enough to beat both WP and AK without.
It's sad when people start to believe they can only beat a challenge once they have accumulated enough gear to make the challenge irrelevant.
#45 Oct 28 2013 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
If there was no iLV 50+ gear, people would eventually learn to play good enough to beat both WP and AK without.
It's sad when people start to believe they can only beat a challenge once they have accumulated enough gear to make the challenge irrelevant.


A real "hard mode" challenge would do a gear check and not let you in if you had anything iLvl above your actual job level. Smiley: laugh
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#46 Oct 28 2013 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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So speaking of DF...I was just in Brayfox on my bard. It was quite amusing. The WHM was spamming medica the entire time and the paladin could never hold aggro on the 3rd/4th mobs. This particular WHM was in battlemage gear. The BRD was in some AF and crafted gear. The BRD and WHM play like garbage throughout the entire instance but no one dies and bosses die.

We're on Aiatar and we wipe three times. What does the WHM and other BRD do? Berate the paladin and leave.

http://i.imgur.com/pAL1WaU.png

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/4041856/
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/5451543/

I ask the PLD what he's doing for his rotation while we wait for two more replacements. As you can see, he tells me what he's doing. The flash is what's hurting him. I tell him to nix it on a boss and two new players join: another BRD and another WHM.

We go in and down him in one shot. Vest does so much better and is now a more knowledgeable tank. He even forgot to put up sword oath on the fight but his threat generation was much better, allowing both bards to do max DPS without worry of pulling aggro.

Is it REALLY that hard? You simply take a minute and help a player instead of berating them and they show vast improvement.
#47 Oct 28 2013 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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From what I've read, it's almost like XIs atmosphere where, if you didn't have VW,legion, salvage gear you were gridlocked from doing endgame content, especially neo nyzul. It got worst when delve **** rushed the game. You didn't have a RME weapon, you couldn't do delve. Didn't have a delve weapon or gear? Couldn't do delve(totally contradicting obviously). It makes me weary of doing endgame content even though I just started this game lol

Edited, Oct 28th 2013 12:59pm by Littlechaos
#48 Oct 28 2013 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Littlechaos wrote:
From what I've read, it's almost like XIs atmosphere where, if you didn't have VW,legion, salvage gear you were gridlocked from doing endgame content, especially neo nyzul. It got worst when delve **** rushed the game. You didn't have a RME weapon, you couldn't do delve. Didn't have a delve weapon or gear? Couldn't do delve(totally contradicting obviously). It makes me weary of doing endgame content even though I just started that game lol


If you don't have the right RME weapon, you can't do Delve any more.

If someone had told me six months ago that a 95 Gjallarhorn bard wouldn't be good enough for SoA's endgame, I would have laughed and laughed and....

Nope, 3 song and 4 song bard only! No Dharp, no Delve for you! Smiley: mad

I'm still around 40 Apadamak horns away from my 90 Dardaubla, but my motivation is pretty much gone to finish.
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#49 Oct 28 2013 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Littlechaos wrote:
From what I've read, it's almost like XIs atmosphere where, if you didn't have VW,legion, salvage gear you were gridlocked from doing endgame content, especially neo nyzul.


To be fair XI is quite different (especially these days). XI is not only 11 years old, but having an Empyrean Weapon to at least 90 by 2012 was more than reasonable, let alone a relic that's been out since 2005. The rest was the simple fact the content actually called for people being in "actual" gear in order to do Delve, Neo-Nyzul was just the usual people who want to blow through it, I cleared it numerous times as Dancer even though people said (then) Dancer could never do Neo-Nyzul and while it could be a race, most of the people who yelled for RME were hackers or used clipper anyway, so it didn't really make sense in the long run. It's like end-game in 2004-2008, you didn't "need" relics and mythics, you simply needed the gear expected of you, i.e DD in Hauby when applicable and adequate gear sets (haste/tp/ws etc)..when they shifted focus to a particular group of people, notice how the "requirements to do end-game" suddenly whiplashed the community. The only time it honestly made sense was Delve when it was content that was "too hard" for entry level and seemed to be more like content they'd normally release after the expansion story is done.

Here, it's more like people just being stupid about "need relic+1 for content designed for people who just beat the storyline!" So it's quite a different atmosphere, you don't NEED any of the requirements listed, on Titan you do need to be somewhat geared since the heart phase and after is a DPS race, but stuff like AK/WP/Praetorium/Castrum? No.

Don't fear wanting to do end-game, just realize the same people who would say you need top tier gear to run ilvl 50-60 dungeons will always exist in all MMOs and make the community a ****** place to partake, but it's not THAT bad. To be fair in XIV getting a relic is easier than it was in 1.0 but outside of coil? it's not absolutely necessary..this is why I think it was a last minute addition because having Titan involved negates the whole purpose of ever farming those weapons to use unless it's for a job you don't/won't get a relic on.



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#50 Oct 28 2013 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
Littlechaos wrote:
From what I've read, it's almost like XIs atmosphere where, if you didn't have VW,legion, salvage gear you were gridlocked from doing endgame content, especially neo nyzul. It got worst when delve **** rushed the game. You didn't have a RME weapon, you couldn't do delve. Didn't have a delve weapon or gear? Couldn't do delve(totally contradicting obviously). It makes me weary of doing endgame content even though I just started that game lol


If you don't have the right RME weapon, you can't do Delve any more.

If someone had told me six months ago that a 95 Gjallarhorn bard wouldn't be good enough for SoA's endgame, I would have laughed and laughed and....

Nope, 3 song and 4 song bard only! No Dharp, no Delve for you! Smiley: mad

I'm still around 40 Apadamak horns away from my 90 Dardaubla, but my motivation is pretty much gone to finish.

I know how you feel.

My last moments of FFXI were; "Yes! After years of work i finally finished my Aegis! I can finally come and do Del.... what? Ochain? No, i dont have... what? WHAT!?"
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#51 Oct 28 2013 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Littlechaos wrote:
From what I've read, it's almost like XIs atmosphere where, if you didn't have VW,legion, salvage gear you were gridlocked from doing endgame content, especially neo nyzul. It got worst when delve **** rushed the game. You didn't have a RME weapon, you couldn't do delve. Didn't have a delve weapon or gear? Couldn't do delve(totally contradicting obviously). It makes me weary of doing endgame content even though I just started that game lol


If you don't have the right RME weapon, you can't do Delve any more.

If someone had told me six months ago that a 95 Gjallarhorn bard wouldn't be good enough for SoA's endgame, I would have laughed and laughed and....

Nope, 3 song and 4 song bard only! No Dharp, no Delve for you! Smiley: mad

I'm still around 40 Apadamak horns away from my 90 Dardaubla, but my motivation is pretty much gone to finish.

I know how you feel.

My last moments of FFXI were; "Yes! After years of work i finally finished my Aegis! I can finally come and do Del.... what? Ochain? No, i dont have... what? WHAT!?"


Yep:
End-Game Community Prior to SoA: "Ochain? What noob *** gets an Ochain? You mean there's a shield other than Aegis? The ****?"
End-Game Community Post SoA: "Aegis? The ****? What noob *** gets an Aegis? Ochain only..or better yet, get both and not be stupid."

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