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Dev Reponse to EXP Increase in DungeonsFollow

#1 Oct 31 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Greetings,

As was mentioned during the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part IX, we'll be introducing a feature for the Duty Finder in patch 2.1 that will place you in a random dungeon in order to get people participating in a wider variety of dungeons.

Specifically, we will be breaking down dungeon content into different categories such as leveling dungeons, level 50+ dungeons, and primal battles, and players will be matched for random content. You'll be able to challenge each category once every real-world day and as a reward you will receive each kind of Allagan tomestones. Participants will be matched with priority on content that is lacking members.

Also, in order to strike a proper balance between this plan and the experience points gained by participating in FATE, we will be increasing the amount of experience points gained in dungeons in patch 2.1.


Credit to reseph on Reddit for posting this there first.
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#2 Oct 31 2013 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm very pleased with this news. I'd much rather run dungeons for xp than Fates.

I just hope they have accounted for the increase in instances that is likely to result from these two changes. Otherwise we may be looking at another wave of 90000 errors.

I'll give SE the benefit of the doubt, though.
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#3 Oct 31 2013 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Awesome news!
#4 Oct 31 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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does this mean I could potentially run the Manor or Cutters Cry and be getting my Myth and Philo cap?
#5 Oct 31 2013 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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TheAnf wrote:
does this mean I could potentially run the Manor or Cutters Cry and be getting my Myth and Philo cap?


That's how I read it... any dungeon that is having trouble filling a group in the DF.
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#6 Oct 31 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:
TheAnf wrote:
does this mean I could potentially run the Manor or Cutters Cry and be getting my Myth and Philo cap?


That's how I read it... any dungeon that is having trouble filling a group in the DF.


Limited to once per day per category, though.
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#7 Oct 31 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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Pickins wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
TheAnf wrote:
does this mean I could potentially run the Manor or Cutters Cry and be getting my Myth and Philo cap?


That's how I read it... any dungeon that is having trouble filling a group in the DF.


Limited to once per day per category, though.


Category referring to Primal, Exp dungeon, 50+ dungeon?
#8 Oct 31 2013 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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TheAnf wrote:


Category referring to Primal, Exp dungeon, 50+ dungeon?


That's how I read it.
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#9 Oct 31 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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Sounds like that's what they mean.

Right now, higher level players have zilch incentive to Duty Finder up for lower level dungeons (since if they're helping someone in the FC, they'll probably build a party outside.) Giving them the option to spam those lower level dungeons once a day in each category for tomes will fix some of the waiting times in the baby dungeons.
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#10 Oct 31 2013 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
Hopefully this is implemented right... if the tomes/hour don't match up, the speed runners will all just ignore this.
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#11 Oct 31 2013 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Hopefully this is implemented right... if the tomes/hour don't match up, the speed runners will all just ignore this.

If you can cruise through a lowbie dungeon or kill ifrit in 5 minutes, they will definitely do it. Since it will only be once a day, i think it will be ok.
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#12 Oct 31 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Hopefully this is implemented right... if the tomes/hour don't match up, the speed runners will all just ignore this.


And this is a problem how? Let those asshats stay in prea and CM..ill gladly run lower level dungeons to help people out and get tomes for it. They probably won't like it anyway cause they might have to actually talk and help someone.
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#13 Oct 31 2013 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree I'd love to have a re-run the low dungeons over again and still "get something" out of it some of the low dungeons are awesome (I love the manor)

#14 Oct 31 2013 at 3:40 PM Rating: Good
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I wonder why the once-per-day limit.

Wouldn't it be beneficial to have people doing this all the time to fill DF groups?
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#15 Oct 31 2013 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
I wonder why the once-per-day limit.

Wouldn't it be beneficial to have people doing this all the time to fill DF groups?


Maybe after they stand it up it would be worth reviewing. Let it run for a few weeks and re-assess?
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#16 Oct 31 2013 at 3:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
I wonder why the once-per-day limit.

Wouldn't it be beneficial to have people doing this all the time to fill DF groups?



Yeah I kind of wonder about this also, In WoW, you got an initial reward for your first random, like lets say 20 tomes for arguments sake, cause I really cant remember what it was, and then 10 tomes for every random after that. Although that was for heroics where you were getting tomes in the dungeons on top of the rewards which made it more worth while to run random dungeons in the first place. Unless they plan to start handing out tomes for running low level dungeons, I don't see anyone doing this more then once a day, at least for the story mode dungeons.

Its so weird to me how they took so many things from other MMO's but missed some of the things that to me seemed common sense, or at least seemed to work, Like having Heroic, or Hard Mode, versions of all their dungeons that reward Tomes, thus not having everyone limited to running WP/AK or CM/Prea for Tomes. HM Manor or Brayflox would be epic IMO.

Edited, Oct 31st 2013 5:49pm by Jeskradha
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#17 Oct 31 2013 at 5:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
I wonder why the once-per-day limit.

Wouldn't it be beneficial to have people doing this all the time to fill DF groups?

The less commonly played dungeons are only going to have a small number of people queued up for them, so once-per-day is probably fine. The more players there are that need a dungeon, the less of a problem you have to start with for that dungeon.
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#18 Oct 31 2013 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
I wonder why the once-per-day limit.

Wouldn't it be beneficial to have people doing this all the time to fill DF groups?

No limit would definitely increase the speed of getting parties for every dungeon.

I think any limit in place is for the other possible side of the equation?

People stop doing the harder dungeons as often for tomes,etc and spam the easier ones.
#19 Oct 31 2013 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
I wonder why the once-per-day limit.

Wouldn't it be beneficial to have people doing this all the time to fill DF groups?

No limit would definitely increase the speed of getting parties for every dungeon.

I think any limit in place is for the other possible side of the equation?

People stop doing the harder dungeons as often for tomes,etc and spam the easier ones.


It'd be perfectly fine to reduce the tomestone reward after the first one each day. I just don't see the reason for limiting people to one random dungeon per day. Unless there's some technical reason they can't do it... we already know their instancing system is less than stellar, maybe they don't think they can handle a ton of people spamming random dungeons?
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#20 Oct 31 2013 at 8:14 PM Rating: Default
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
I wonder why the once-per-day limit.

Wouldn't it be beneficial to have people doing this all the time to fill DF groups?


The Irony is: SE was moving away with it for XI but other MMOs does once a day/week stuff so of course ARR has to. It makes little sense since myth wise you're capped to 300/week as is.

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#21 Oct 31 2013 at 8:45 PM Rating: Decent
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If you can cruise through a lowbie dungeon or kill ifrit in 5 minutes, they will definitely do it. Since it will only be once a day, i think it will be ok.


Nah, people who cap their tomes in a couple of hours via Coil and WP will have no reason at all to go back and do level capped dungeons. The only thing that would encourage them is if the tome cap for dailies is unrelated to the current one.

Edited, Nov 1st 2013 2:45am by blowfin
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#22 Oct 31 2013 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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Lol... Then we should all end up in Titan then no?
#23 Oct 31 2013 at 11:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
sandpark wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
I wonder why the once-per-day limit.

Wouldn't it be beneficial to have people doing this all the time to fill DF groups?

No limit would definitely increase the speed of getting parties for every dungeon.

I think any limit in place is for the other possible side of the equation?

People stop doing the harder dungeons as often for tomes,etc and spam the easier ones.


It'd be perfectly fine to reduce the tomestone reward after the first one each day. I just don't see the reason for limiting people to one random dungeon per day. Unless there's some technical reason they can't do it... we already know their instancing system is less than stellar, maybe they don't think they can handle a ton of people spamming random dungeons?

There are plenty of low tech ways for players to pick quasi-random dungeons with no additional rewards after the once-per-day limit. Darts. Coin flipping. Rolling dice. Just pick something you haven't done in a while.

A once-a-day limit really isn't that big of a deal.
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#24 Nov 01 2013 at 4:45 AM Rating: Good
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With there being so many dungeons, and considering the time it takes to create them, they should be made a staple activity. Keep tombs, keep rng drops, but add a token system reward for all dungeons to trade in for gear, vanity items, crafting mats, ect. Provide a wide array of rewards to appeal to different play styles and that will provide incentive for people to run that content.
#25 Nov 01 2013 at 5:20 AM Rating: Good
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SistinasAria wrote:
With there being so many dungeons, and considering the time it takes to create them, they should be made a staple activity. Keep tombs, keep rng drops, but add a token system reward for all dungeons to trade in for gear, vanity items, crafting mats, ect. Provide a wide array of rewards to appeal to different play styles and that will provide incentive for people to run that content.


Player and Free Company housing rewards (furniture, trophies, sculptures, etc.) from dungeon tokens, unique to each specific dungeon (not just categories). Free Company boosts similar to those now that can be purchased with the same unique dungeon tokens.

Completely optional stuff, but an incentive to do these dungeons and keep doing them down the road.
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#26 Nov 01 2013 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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There are plenty of low tech ways for players to pick quasi-random dungeons with no additional rewards after the once-per-day limit. Darts. Coin flipping. Rolling dice. Just pick something you haven't done in a while.

A once-a-day limit really isn't that big of a deal.


Of course, you could do that now. But people won't do it if there's no reward for it. That's just a fact of how MMO players work.
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#27 Nov 01 2013 at 7:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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MMOs have spun around where most players don't play parts of the game for fun, they play it for stuff that benefits them. Not all, but most will not do anything more than what gets them the carrot. Look at the official forums (put on a hazmat suit first though) and you will see a bunch of posts from people who basically say, 'I only log in for 3 hours a week now because that is how long it takes me to farm my weekly cap for tomes.' The same people that complain about having no endgame, the same people who don't want to waste a single minute in a dungeon speedrun, the same people complaining about no content.

There is content galore in this game, but people choose not to partake, or to blow through it as fast as possible to 'win the game - be the best.' Once a day you can run a lowbie dungeon for a token amount of tomes won't do anything than create a situation where endgame people finding the quickest way to burn through that which will then lead to that being the standard on how to run those dungeons. It will also usher in another source of gear discrimination for speed runs. Maybe the once-a-day thing will allow it to not be as pervasive than having it always on, but looking at the trends already in the playerbase tells me no (as well as the Magic 8-ball).

It's a nice idea, but I can see it becoming something completely not nice once the community is allowed to twist it around.
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#28 Nov 01 2013 at 8:23 AM Rating: Default
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Refews wrote:

There is content galore in this game, but people choose not to partake, or to blow through it as fast as possible to 'win the game - be the best.' Once a day you can run a lowbie dungeon for a token amount of tomes won't do anything than create a situation where endgame people finding the quickest way to burn through that which will then lead to that being the standard on how to run those dungeons. It will also usher in another source of gear discrimination for speed runs. Maybe the once-a-day thing will allow it to not be as pervasive than having it always on, but looking at the trends already in the playerbase tells me no (as well as the Magic 8-ball).

It's a nice idea, but I can see it becoming something completely not nice once the community is allowed to twist it around.


Yep, I wonder how long before darklight gear will be a requirement for copperbell mines Smiley: grin

Seriously though, my concern would be the speed runners wanting to rush through the lower dungeons while not explaining or being flat out mean to the first timers because they don't know what to do.

I used to run some lower level stuff for the fun of it, then I started wondering if has a dps I was just making another dps needed it wait longer.

Edited, Nov 1st 2013 10:24am by squiress
#29 Nov 01 2013 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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squiress wrote:
Refews wrote:

There is content galore in this game, but people choose not to partake, or to blow through it as fast as possible to 'win the game - be the best.' Once a day you can run a lowbie dungeon for a token amount of tomes won't do anything than create a situation where endgame people finding the quickest way to burn through that which will then lead to that being the standard on how to run those dungeons. It will also usher in another source of gear discrimination for speed runs. Maybe the once-a-day thing will allow it to not be as pervasive than having it always on, but looking at the trends already in the playerbase tells me no (as well as the Magic 8-ball).

It's a nice idea, but I can see it becoming something completely not nice once the community is allowed to twist it around.


Yep, I wonder how long before darklight gear will be a requirement for copperbell mines Smiley: grin

Seriously though, my concern would be the speed runners wanting to rush through the lower dungeons while not explaining or being flat out mean to the first timers because they don't know what to do.

I used to run some lower level stuff for the fun of it, then I started wondering if has a dps I was just making another dps needed it wait longer.

Edited, Nov 1st 2013 10:24am by squiress


The bulletin board feature would allow you to build a speed run party ahead of time, then put that party in queue for the random stuff. I think this is what they're hoping will release the pressure on first/new timers.
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#30 Nov 01 2013 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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I already queue up for the first 5 low level storyline dungeons on whm since I like helping people. It will be nice to be rewarded in a way that benefits my character. I think the reward of once per day per category is good otherwise the DF will be full of people farming the low level instances that don't need it. Remember this is not just to help a high level character get Tomestones, it is for helping people get through storyline.

I'm really looking forward to the bulletin board feature. Finally I will be able to sign up for stuff I can do with people on my own server when the FC/LS are busy/quiet.

Edited, Nov 1st 2013 12:12pm by Yelta
#31 Nov 01 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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As someone who had Dungeon Siege III Achievement before I had a class to level 40 this makes me smile.
#32 Nov 01 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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They should burrow a page from GW2 dungeons and add multiple "paths" and/or scaled up (to 50) content to the lower level dungeons that are already there. In GW2 players would go through each dungeon once in "story mode", then when you finish it unlock "explore" mode which has different paths, bosses, etc. than story mode. Players voted on which path they wanted to take at the start of the instance, it was/is a smart way to make one dungeon into 3 or 4. Explore mode dungeons dropped the equivalent of tokens/tombs except they were unique to each dungeon. The major downside was that people only ran certain dungeons and in those they only did certain "easy" paths.

They already have the dungeon assets, just add new and improved stuff to kill and give players and incentive to slay them. I really enjoyed GW2 dungeons even though they are the red-headed stepchild of the game (Dungeon Master tile a little after launch was pretty much impossible without static group). I had multiple level 80s and there were still dungeon paths I hadn't done, mostly because they were deemed "too hard" or didn't provide useful PvP loot.

Edited, Nov 1st 2013 12:56pm by KingoGoodbomber
#33 Nov 01 2013 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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There are plenty of low tech ways for players to pick quasi-random dungeons with no additional rewards after the once-per-day limit. Darts. Coin flipping. Rolling dice. Just pick something you haven't done in a while.

A once-a-day limit really isn't that big of a deal.

Of course, you could do that now. But people won't do it if there's no reward for it. That's just a fact of how MMO players work.

And people won't do it past the first time if the rewards are reduced.
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#34 Nov 01 2013 at 11:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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they should also do this with guildhests or make them a weekly bonus or something to give people incentive to do them more than once.
#35 Nov 01 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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KingoGoodbomber wrote:
they should also do this with guildhests or make them a weekly bonus or something to give people incentive to do them more than once.


That would be awesome! I really liked the whole guild heist idea, at the very least I hope to see them release more of these in the future. Even if it was only like 10 tomes for one guild heist a day, that wouldn't be too bad, since most of them only take like 5 mins.
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#36 Nov 01 2013 at 11:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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And people won't do it past the first time if the rewards are reduced.


Actually no. They won't do it after the first if the reward is eliminated after the first. But reduced is actually ok.

We can see this in games like WoW and Rift where the system works like that. Just because they're getting less reward doesn't make people stop doing something they enjoy doing. Getting no reward does.
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#37 Nov 01 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yelta wrote:
It will be nice to be rewarded in a way that benefits my character.


Not to mention that there will be a "Karma" system installed too, so helping people will also get you votes and potentially in-game bonuses just for being the nice person that you are! Smiley: grin
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#38 Nov 01 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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And people won't do it past the first time if the rewards are reduced.


Actually no. They won't do it after the first if the reward is eliminated after the first. But reduced is actually ok.

We can see this in games like WoW and Rift where the system works like that. Just because they're getting less reward doesn't make people stop doing something they enjoy doing. Getting no reward does.


Not that I mind the fact that I will probably be running WP/AK 100 times for my DL gear, I just really wish there was a random dungeon tool for the end game dungeons that gave like 10 extra tomes that I could just I could just spam all day, Cause honestly I think the "speed runners" would still avoid something like this for the most part, I dunno maybe not though. I still don't understand how people can join a random dungeon and expect everyone to be geared out and ready to speed run, but then their are a lot of stupid people out there so.

I can see their reasoning for the whole one a day thing, but still.

Hairspray wrote:
[Not to mention that there will be a "Karma" system installed too, so helping people will also get you votes and potentially in-game bonuses just for being the nice person that you are! Smiley: grin


I didn't really think about this, which makes it even more awesome!
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#39 Nov 01 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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KingoGoodbomber wrote:
they should also do this with guildhests or make them a weekly bonus or something to give people incentive to do them more than once.

I wish guildhest became more of an xp alternative. Limited entries per day to experience the game in the old school ways of monster grinding aka FFXI. So bcnm type stuff/ experience points parties. Gameplay mode where it was like it was pre ARR.
#40 Nov 01 2013 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:
KingoGoodbomber wrote:
they should also do this with guildhests or make them a weekly bonus or something to give people incentive to do them more than once.

I wish guildhest became more of an xp alternative. Limited entries per day to experience the game in the old school ways of monster grinding aka FFXI. So bcnm type stuff/ experience points parties. Gameplay mode where it was like it was pre ARR.


I really miss BCNM and KSNM's
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