Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

DF: Can't kick? Then cool downFollow

#1 Nov 04 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
*
91 posts
A FC member and I decided to team up and queue for Ifrit HM. After about 10mins we got into a group within 2 secs of seeing the word "Forward" this BRD ran up to Ifrit, attack and ran back to our group. We were discussing who was going to stun and who was going to LB nails and all off a sudden Ifrit is at our door. So naturally we wiped and again this dude did the same thing. So that one person screwed up the whole group becuase he wouldn't leave but kept bringing Ifrit in. After the third time I left. Mind you this is the first time I've encountered such foolishness.

So my thing is since you can't kick a member, there should be a petition against such person. If enough ppl say this person trolling then have them locked out of DF for at lease 24hrs. I'm not talking about a bad player but a **** troll.

What do you guys think? There should be at lease something to send a msg to trolls since you can't kick. I hope they do put something in place becuase down the line you will find more trolls.
#2 Nov 04 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,270 posts
I kinda lol at the idea that they think adding an MVP system will stop trolls like this.

There needs to be vote-kick, but I just dont see it happening. I would settle for a DF blacklist. Where you can add anyone from any server, and if they are on your black list, they cant do duty finder with you.

No more trolls, no more elitests, no more high lag people, done. If someone doesnt fit your play style, you blist them and then duty finder prevents you from having to interact with them.
#3 Nov 04 2013 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
I love the idea of a duty finder black list. I still don't like vote kick, because I think that would enable elitists to kick out perfectly geared players who just don't have the shiniest toys.

I would LOVE a blist though!
____________________________
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
#4 Nov 04 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,104 posts
We definitely need a vote-kick system, just make it so the remaining 3 members have to agree with the decision. If even 1 person disagrees, the kick doesn't go through. The majority rules in this case whether you consider it elitist or not.

The OPs situation is a perfect example of why this system is needed. Sometimes you run into some major morons and they just need to go. A blacklist system is needed too.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 1:29pm by BrokenFox
#5 Nov 04 2013 at 1:11 PM Rating: Excellent
**
326 posts
I'm not sure how much it would help but be sure to report the guy who was doing that. Right now there isn't much else you can do about him.

A majority vote-kick system will help in cases like this.
#6 Nov 04 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
*
91 posts
Even though blisting a person from duty finder seems more effective than having a voting system, I think DF should be treated like a violation of some sort. You have special ppl that handles reported players of cheating or abusing certain things in the game. You have ppl that just go on DF to **** other ppl off for no reason. You don't like a group, then leave don't go crazy like you are mentally ill. Now said player is reported and are on file...other players report the same behavior with this person..again a file is buidling up against said person. Eventually after a certain amount of complaints the said person should be suspended from DF for a certain period of time of just ban. I mean who would miss and *******? But I hope I don't waste my time and end up with another troll...
#7 Nov 04 2013 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
Guru
***
1,310 posts
BrokenFox wrote:
We definitely need a vote-kick system, just make it so the remaining 3 members have to agree with the decision. If even 1 person disagrees, the kick doesn't go through. The majority rules in this case whether you consider it elitist or not.

The OPs situation is a perfect example of why this system is needed. Sometimes you run into some major morons and they just need to go. A blacklist system is needed too.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 1:29pm by BrokenFox


It could backfire though. Let's say a tank wants to give up on the group but doesn't want the 15 minute wait for leaving. He could just act like a jerk to get you to kick him so he can requeue right away.

You could also get teamed up against 3 friends who want a better shot at the boss treasure and vote to kick you at the end. Or worse, just troll you out of your tomestones because they can.

If you build it, trolls will troll it.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 2:55pm by Xoie
#8 Nov 04 2013 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,270 posts
Well for vote kick to work it would need the following:

1) You only get 1 vote kick per instance, and you personally can only initiate a vote to kick 1 person per 24 hours, and it would cost the person who initiates it some of their MVP points
2) You need 3/4 or 7/8 people to vote yes to kick
3) Whoever initiates the kick has a 15 minute lockout regardless once they complete/leave the instance
4) Whoever was kicked gets a 15 minute lockout regardless
5) You cannot vote kick after a certain point (aka right before last boss)
6) If you are vote kicked more than a certain number of times a day, a gm will review your behavior

That would cover most of the abuse. I am sure there are still other circumstances, but something has to be done about the afkers/trolls (specially in titan HM)
#9 Nov 04 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,104 posts
Xoie wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
We definitely need a vote-kick system, just make it so the remaining 3 members have to agree with the decision. If even 1 person disagrees, the kick doesn't go through. The majority rules in this case whether you consider it elitist or not.

The OPs situation is a perfect example of why this system is needed. Sometimes you run into some major morons and they just need to go. A blacklist system is needed too.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 1:29pm by BrokenFox


It could backfire though. Let's say a tank wants to give up on the group but doesn't want the 15 minute wait for leaving. He could just act like a jerk to get you to kick him so he can requeue right away.

You could also get teamed up against 3 friends who want a better shot at the boss treasure and vote to kick you at the end. Or worse, just troll you out of your tomestones because they can.

If you build it, trolls will troll it.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 2:55pm by Xoie


All true, but no system is perfect, especially when it's all about dealing with human interaction.

Any lock can be picked. Doesn't mean they aren't useful.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 7:48pm by BrokenFox
#10 Nov 04 2013 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
327 posts
I like some of the ideas that are floating around here about the penalties with people who decide to troll the Duty Finder but I think we're now seeing what happens when Quality of Life functions from other games impact the entire genre. Don't get me wrong I understand completely the need for a Dungeon Finder to help speed a long the process of getting group invites (XI Players know full well how long it could take if you weren't the FoTM DD back before Wings) but at the same time I wish it would only pull from 3-5 servers instead of 12-13 that it currently draws from.

Coupled with a Cross-Realm Blacklist I think it could possibly kill two birds with one stone. It would promote a sense of Community since the random pool of players would be smaller and it would also keep trolls from being too out of control because a Black List from too many players would really inhibit their own ability to do things.

TLDR: Shrink the amount of servers that are Grouped Together in the DF and Add a Cross-Realm Black List
____________________________
Oxide Vanwen

Server: Ultros

Free Company: Terra Sails

The Paragon of White Mage Excellence From Final Fantasies XI - XIV
#11 Nov 04 2013 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
MVP system is lame imo. They have that is Star Wars. In PVP the person with the most kills usually got the reward at the end. Lame.
Who kept everyone/that person alive so they could kill, because the healer could not? the healer..
____________________________
Sandinmyeye | |Tsukaremashi*a |
#12 Nov 04 2013 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,707 posts
Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
MVP system is lame imo. They have that is Star Wars. In PVP the person with the most kills usually got the reward at the end. Lame.
Who kept everyone/that person alive so they could kill, because the healer could not? the healer..


I think part of the problem with SWTOR's version of the system (and I agree, it's bad) is that the choice comes up in the context of a scoreboard.

If it were just a simple dialog box at the end that listed everyone and asked who was the most helpful, I think the outcome would be a little more honest.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#13 Nov 05 2013 at 12:15 AM Rating: Default
*
147 posts
Thayos wrote:
I love the idea of a duty finder black list. I still don't like vote kick, because I think that would enable elitists to kick out perfectly geared players who just don't have the shiniest toys.



Agreed. Don't have full dark light and relic +1 in WP, the elitists will kick you.
#14 Nov 05 2013 at 2:27 AM Rating: Good
****
4,172 posts
SE, you need to follow through if you're gonna import ideas from other games. DF(more commonly known as 'Dungeon Finder') is a tool for casuals to pick up some quick and easy content without spending upwards of an hour to put a group together.

I don't think they thought the purpose of the DF through. Dungeon Finder in WoW only rides you up to cap and gives you a push. At best, you come away with enough to start normal content. If you want to challenge hardmode content, you assemble a group from what you can find around town. Putting casual players in hardcore content... seems legit? I don't like it.

Call me old fashioned, but I think that people who want to do hardmode content should be restricted to their own server for a pool to draw from. You assemble the group and gearcheck prior to heading out and there's much less drama. People will also act accordingly when having to deal with their own neighbors.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#15 Nov 05 2013 at 6:11 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,511 posts
Actually, you can GM call people over this and they will actually take measure against it. Dont use the forms for it, instead go for the GM call option from the first tab. Usually gets back to you pretty quickly and either removes the guy or tells you that he send him on an extended break over it. Usually they learn when they're allowed back on the game.

They're pretty brutal in acting towards people who ruin the game in this way.
____________________________
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
#16 Nov 05 2013 at 7:27 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,270 posts
Ive had the opposite experience. GM showed up and said that the tank was allowed to just sit there not helping, but because he was swearing at us he was told he was getting a warning for that.

Guess it depends on the gm.
#17 Nov 05 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
*
129 posts
I feel a DF black list would help the most and be the least convoluted. The vote kick system is quite open to abuse unless you start tacking in long numbered lists of exceptions and qualifications which just makes the whole thing now open to being poorly communicated and misunderstood. Frankly SE needs no help in that department. Even the MVP system is a big fancy solution that never needed to exist. If people on a case by case basis could just blist those they had no interest in playing with for whatever reason and never encounter them again, problem solved.

The ONLY qualifications I would put on this system are that a) you should be able to jot down a note beside the name of the person you blisted should you want, to remind yourself as to why they're there in the first place, because let's face it over time you forget. And b), that the list be really **** long and isolated from your regular blist which is probably already full of gil sellers.

This ensures you have a negative experience with x or y player only once. Which you would have to endure anyhow with the MVP system. It also does not require GM intervention, which would not be of any use to you anyhow, because they likely won't do anything about it. It helps players help themselves by warding against repeated dealings with difficult players. Chances are after a while it gets progressively harder for those who are difficult to find a party as their blist status grows across servers, which is an MVP list in reverse that isolates the problem elements... LVP list?

Edited, Nov 5th 2013 12:30pm by Furiousnixon
____________________________
- The artist usually known as Angrynixon
#18 Nov 05 2013 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,726 posts
Thayos wrote:
I love the idea of a duty finder black list. I still don't like vote kick, because I think that would enable elitists to kick out perfectly geared players who just don't have the shiniest toys.

I would LOVE a blist though!


I agree with this...

____________________________
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
#19 Nov 05 2013 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
***
1,310 posts
BrokenFox wrote:
Xoie wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
We definitely need a vote-kick system, just make it so the remaining 3 members have to agree with the decision. If even 1 person disagrees, the kick doesn't go through. The majority rules in this case whether you consider it elitist or not.

The OPs situation is a perfect example of why this system is needed. Sometimes you run into some major morons and they just need to go. A blacklist system is needed too.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 1:29pm by BrokenFox


It could backfire though. Let's say a tank wants to give up on the group but doesn't want the 15 minute wait for leaving. He could just act like a jerk to get you to kick him so he can requeue right away.

You could also get teamed up against 3 friends who want a better shot at the boss treasure and vote to kick you at the end. Or worse, just troll you out of your tomestones because they can.

If you build it, trolls will troll it.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 2:55pm by Xoie


All true, but no system is perfect, especially when it's all about dealing with human interaction.

Any lock can be picked. Doesn't mean they aren't useful.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 7:48pm by BrokenFox


But in this case, I think the cure is worse than the disease. Vote-kicking does nothing to stop a troll from disrupting things. Even if you could kick a tank that just wants to ***** around, you'll probably have to requeue anyway because almost no tanks or healers look for in progress DFs even if you could look for a replacement. It's ultimately pointless in small groups and just opens up new avenues for abuse.

In large groups, I've seen people AFKing their way to the same reward as everyone else, so I can see why someone might want the option to boot. I think there are simpler alternatives like rewards being tied to participation such as in a FATE. If you sit out you get nothing. If AFKing is pointless I think people will smarten up.

And if cutscenes are another annoyance causing disputes, I think the DF options Yoshi is working may address that concern where you can specify what type of party you want. Hopefully that can be set up so those cutscenes can be skipped by the whole group automatically (if that's what you sign up for) so it's not a problem anymore.

And I'm supportive of a DF blacklist. That will make it harder for jerks to get much traction spreading their trolling and hate the more they get infamous.
#20 Nov 05 2013 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,172 posts
Furiousnixon wrote:
I feel a DF black list would help the most and be the least convoluted. The vote kick system is quite open to abuse unless you start tacking in long numbered lists of exceptions and qualifications which just makes the whole thing now open to being poorly communicated and misunderstood. Frankly SE needs no help in that department. Even the MVP system is a big fancy solution that never needed to exist. If people on a case by case basis could just blist those they had no interest in playing with for whatever reason and never encounter them again, problem solved.

I don't think you understand the logistics of what you're suggesting here. There is already a bottleneck due to the tank/healer/dps check. If you add a check that separates players by blacklists, you slow that process even more. Instead of punishing the person added to your list, you punish everyone who comes into contact with that player as well.

DF doesn't work the way you think it does. I think if you understood how groups were formed then you'd see the issues that arise from implementing a blacklist feature.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#21 Nov 05 2013 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
***
1,270 posts
Well i would say you dont understand how duty finder "work"s either than. Filth.

Lets say 100+ people all blist tank0001 because he afk's in CM runs. Now 3 of those people join a queue and are added to a PT, and tank0001 queues up and he is skipped over for that party because 3 people in it already have him blisted. Sure tank0001 will find a party of people who dont have him blisted yet, and that party with 3 people who had him blisted may take longer to actually start... but isnt it worth waiting an extra 10 minutes or w/e it takes to get a group that is garunteed to not contain an afk tank?

I just fail to see your logic in how it would be detremental. Queues may take longer, but you get more enjoyable parties, because now that elitist tank will no longer be able to call u swear words for not having full DL + relic +1 on a WP run, and that afk CM tank will now have to start actually doing stuff or risk getting on so many blists he cant DF for anything.

Sure, you + the 2/4 or 6/8 other members already in queue waiting on more now have to wait longer because of you not wanting to group with a certain person/type of person/group of people.

But honestly if someone has trolled titan for 10 + groups by naked tanking, or leroy jenkinsing...do you really want them in your party?....no, you will wait the extra 10 minutes for someone who is is at least half decent.
#22 Nov 05 2013 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
869 posts
I had a similar thing happen to me at Garuda. I took the penalty for the entire group by leaving the Duty and filed a harassment report but never heard anything back about it. Fifteen minutes later, I was able to get back into Garuda HM and of course the same person was in my group again.

____________________________
Dawnn, Hume on Siren
THF WHM [BRD] [RNG] NIN BLM [PLD] [WAR] [COR] [DNC]
Linkshell: Fabulous
Hecatomb Feet, Body, Hands, Head
Homam All
Love Torque: O
Skadi's Curie: O
#23 Nov 05 2013 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
869 posts
I totally agree with Dustin. Also, the worse effect it could have if everyone on all servers had the person blacklisted is that it would appear as though the person just never queued for Duty Finder.

Edited, Nov 5th 2013 5:08pm by Dawnn
____________________________
Dawnn, Hume on Siren
THF WHM [BRD] [RNG] NIN BLM [PLD] [WAR] [COR] [DNC]
Linkshell: Fabulous
Hecatomb Feet, Body, Hands, Head
Homam All
Love Torque: O
Skadi's Curie: O
#24 Nov 05 2013 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,172 posts
dustinfoley wrote:
Well i would say you dont understand how duty finder "work"s either than. Filth.Sure tank0001 will find a party of people who dont have him blisted yet, and that party with 3 people who had him blisted may take longer to actually start... but isnt it worth waiting an extra 10 minutes or w/e it takes to get a group that is garunteed to not contain an afk tank?


Imagine a building with a bunch of lobbies and rooms in it. That's the DF. Everyone who queue's up for DF is basically standing in a line to get into the lobby and once their lobby is full, they enter their room(dungeon) in the building(server). Each lobby in the building allows for a certain combination of the right job roles. People line up outside the building and one by one, they enter in the order they queue'd up. That's pretty much how it works. First come, first served. DF in a nutshell.

Quote:
Lets say 100+ people all blist tank0001 because he afk's in CM runs. Now 3 of those people join a queue and are added to a PT, and tank0001 queues up and he is skipped over for that party because 3 people in it already have him blisted.

There is no guarantee that you won't wait 10 mins and get another asshat in your group. The only guarantee is that you'll never be matched with that specific person again. There is enough of a stink being made about it that it's clearly not just the work of one person.

I'd also like to point out here that a blacklist system can(and will) be abused just like a vote-to-kick feature would be. If I scrape by in an instance that should have been a breeze because someone else wasn't pulling their weight, why wouldn't I blacklist them? In fact, why would I not just blacklist everyone but the great players. Then I'd have to wait longer for queues, but at least I'd know I was always matched up with pros....

It goes both ways.

dustinfoley wrote:
I just fail to see your logic in how it would be detremental.


The logic is simple. Because of how the DF works(explained above), people would end up having an incredibly deflated pool of people to pick from for DF content. Instead of waiting 10 mins on the next available tank, you might sit there half an hour because of who other people in your group have on their black list.

Think beyond just yourself for a moment here. A blacklist would expand to every other member of your group. If you queue'd up and got stuck with me(elitist tank) who started blacklisting every scrub that stood in fire once, you'd be waiting an awfully long time to get a group. Not only that, but you'd have no idea why. Blacklisting doesn't address the issue, it just kicks the can. Eventually the problem will need to be addressed properly.

Removing difficult content from DF is still the best course of action in my opinion. All of the gear griping goes away once item level requirements are in place. Trolls are gonna troll and that's what vote-to-kick is for.

All this stuff has already been implemented in some form or another in other games. Why not stick to what's tested and already works well?

Edited, Nov 5th 2013 8:54pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#25 Nov 06 2013 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,726 posts
Thayos wrote:
I love the idea of a duty finder black list. I still don't like vote kick, because I think that would enable elitists to kick out perfectly geared players who just don't have the shiniest toys.

I would LOVE a blist though!


I thought about this and posted I agree with this in a earlier post.. On xbox live they have a rating system that works pretty good. You can put people in you want to avoid so you never see them again in party finder but you can also rate someone down but also rate someone up. Those people with lower rating only get thrown together, so basically all the obnoxious people end up playing together. They also have less chance of finding parties because the pool is much smaller. does it stop everyone, of coarse not but it still helps.
____________________________
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
#26 Nov 06 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
***
2,232 posts
Nashred wrote:
Thayos wrote:
I love the idea of a duty finder black list. I still don't like vote kick, because I think that would enable elitists to kick out perfectly geared players who just don't have the shiniest toys.

I would LOVE a blist though!


I thought about this and posted I agree with this in a earlier post.. On xbox live they have a rating system that works pretty good. You can put people in you want to avoid so you never see them again in party finder but you can also rate someone down but also rate someone up. Those people with lower rating only get thrown together, so basically all the obnoxious people end up playing together. They also have less chance of finding parties because the pool is much smaller. does it stop everyone, of coarse not but it still helps.


This would also make the shunning of console players much easier to do.
____________________________
Character: Urzol Thrush
Server: Ultros
FC: The Kraken Club

Outshined

Teneleven wrote:
We secretly replaced your tank wemelchor with Foldgers Crystal's. Let's see what happens.

« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 81 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (81)