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DF: Can't kick? Then cool downFollow

#1 Nov 04 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Default
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A FC member and I decided to team up and queue for Ifrit HM. After about 10mins we got into a group within 2 secs of seeing the word "Forward" this BRD ran up to Ifrit, attack and ran back to our group. We were discussing who was going to stun and who was going to LB nails and all off a sudden Ifrit is at our door. So naturally we wiped and again this dude did the same thing. So that one person screwed up the whole group becuase he wouldn't leave but kept bringing Ifrit in. After the third time I left. Mind you this is the first time I've encountered such foolishness.

So my thing is since you can't kick a member, there should be a petition against such person. If enough ppl say this person trolling then have them locked out of DF for at lease 24hrs. I'm not talking about a bad player but a **** troll.

What do you guys think? There should be at lease something to send a msg to trolls since you can't kick. I hope they do put something in place becuase down the line you will find more trolls.
#2 Nov 04 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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I kinda lol at the idea that they think adding an MVP system will stop trolls like this.

There needs to be vote-kick, but I just dont see it happening. I would settle for a DF blacklist. Where you can add anyone from any server, and if they are on your black list, they cant do duty finder with you.

No more trolls, no more elitests, no more high lag people, done. If someone doesnt fit your play style, you blist them and then duty finder prevents you from having to interact with them.
#3 Nov 04 2013 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
I love the idea of a duty finder black list. I still don't like vote kick, because I think that would enable elitists to kick out perfectly geared players who just don't have the shiniest toys.

I would LOVE a blist though!
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#4 Nov 04 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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We definitely need a vote-kick system, just make it so the remaining 3 members have to agree with the decision. If even 1 person disagrees, the kick doesn't go through. The majority rules in this case whether you consider it elitist or not.

The OPs situation is a perfect example of why this system is needed. Sometimes you run into some major morons and they just need to go. A blacklist system is needed too.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 1:29pm by BrokenFox
#5 Nov 04 2013 at 1:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure how much it would help but be sure to report the guy who was doing that. Right now there isn't much else you can do about him.

A majority vote-kick system will help in cases like this.
#6 Nov 04 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Default
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Even though blisting a person from duty finder seems more effective than having a voting system, I think DF should be treated like a violation of some sort. You have special ppl that handles reported players of cheating or abusing certain things in the game. You have ppl that just go on DF to **** other ppl off for no reason. You don't like a group, then leave don't go crazy like you are mentally ill. Now said player is reported and are on file...other players report the same behavior with this person..again a file is buidling up against said person. Eventually after a certain amount of complaints the said person should be suspended from DF for a certain period of time of just ban. I mean who would miss and *******? But I hope I don't waste my time and end up with another troll...
#7 Nov 04 2013 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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BrokenFox wrote:
We definitely need a vote-kick system, just make it so the remaining 3 members have to agree with the decision. If even 1 person disagrees, the kick doesn't go through. The majority rules in this case whether you consider it elitist or not.

The OPs situation is a perfect example of why this system is needed. Sometimes you run into some major morons and they just need to go. A blacklist system is needed too.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 1:29pm by BrokenFox


It could backfire though. Let's say a tank wants to give up on the group but doesn't want the 15 minute wait for leaving. He could just act like a jerk to get you to kick him so he can requeue right away.

You could also get teamed up against 3 friends who want a better shot at the boss treasure and vote to kick you at the end. Or worse, just troll you out of your tomestones because they can.

If you build it, trolls will troll it.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 2:55pm by Xoie
#8 Nov 04 2013 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Well for vote kick to work it would need the following:

1) You only get 1 vote kick per instance, and you personally can only initiate a vote to kick 1 person per 24 hours, and it would cost the person who initiates it some of their MVP points
2) You need 3/4 or 7/8 people to vote yes to kick
3) Whoever initiates the kick has a 15 minute lockout regardless once they complete/leave the instance
4) Whoever was kicked gets a 15 minute lockout regardless
5) You cannot vote kick after a certain point (aka right before last boss)
6) If you are vote kicked more than a certain number of times a day, a gm will review your behavior

That would cover most of the abuse. I am sure there are still other circumstances, but something has to be done about the afkers/trolls (specially in titan HM)
#9 Nov 04 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Xoie wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
We definitely need a vote-kick system, just make it so the remaining 3 members have to agree with the decision. If even 1 person disagrees, the kick doesn't go through. The majority rules in this case whether you consider it elitist or not.

The OPs situation is a perfect example of why this system is needed. Sometimes you run into some major morons and they just need to go. A blacklist system is needed too.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 1:29pm by BrokenFox


It could backfire though. Let's say a tank wants to give up on the group but doesn't want the 15 minute wait for leaving. He could just act like a jerk to get you to kick him so he can requeue right away.

You could also get teamed up against 3 friends who want a better shot at the boss treasure and vote to kick you at the end. Or worse, just troll you out of your tomestones because they can.

If you build it, trolls will troll it.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 2:55pm by Xoie


All true, but no system is perfect, especially when it's all about dealing with human interaction.

Any lock can be picked. Doesn't mean they aren't useful.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 7:48pm by BrokenFox
#10 Nov 04 2013 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I like some of the ideas that are floating around here about the penalties with people who decide to troll the Duty Finder but I think we're now seeing what happens when Quality of Life functions from other games impact the entire genre. Don't get me wrong I understand completely the need for a Dungeon Finder to help speed a long the process of getting group invites (XI Players know full well how long it could take if you weren't the FoTM DD back before Wings) but at the same time I wish it would only pull from 3-5 servers instead of 12-13 that it currently draws from.

Coupled with a Cross-Realm Blacklist I think it could possibly kill two birds with one stone. It would promote a sense of Community since the random pool of players would be smaller and it would also keep trolls from being too out of control because a Black List from too many players would really inhibit their own ability to do things.

TLDR: Shrink the amount of servers that are Grouped Together in the DF and Add a Cross-Realm Black List
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#11 Nov 04 2013 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
MVP system is lame imo. They have that is Star Wars. In PVP the person with the most kills usually got the reward at the end. Lame.
Who kept everyone/that person alive so they could kill, because the healer could not? the healer..
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#12 Nov 04 2013 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
MVP system is lame imo. They have that is Star Wars. In PVP the person with the most kills usually got the reward at the end. Lame.
Who kept everyone/that person alive so they could kill, because the healer could not? the healer..


I think part of the problem with SWTOR's version of the system (and I agree, it's bad) is that the choice comes up in the context of a scoreboard.

If it were just a simple dialog box at the end that listed everyone and asked who was the most helpful, I think the outcome would be a little more honest.
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#13 Nov 05 2013 at 12:15 AM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
I love the idea of a duty finder black list. I still don't like vote kick, because I think that would enable elitists to kick out perfectly geared players who just don't have the shiniest toys.



Agreed. Don't have full dark light and relic +1 in WP, the elitists will kick you.
#14 Nov 05 2013 at 2:27 AM Rating: Good
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SE, you need to follow through if you're gonna import ideas from other games. DF(more commonly known as 'Dungeon Finder') is a tool for casuals to pick up some quick and easy content without spending upwards of an hour to put a group together.

I don't think they thought the purpose of the DF through. Dungeon Finder in WoW only rides you up to cap and gives you a push. At best, you come away with enough to start normal content. If you want to challenge hardmode content, you assemble a group from what you can find around town. Putting casual players in hardcore content... seems legit? I don't like it.

Call me old fashioned, but I think that people who want to do hardmode content should be restricted to their own server for a pool to draw from. You assemble the group and gearcheck prior to heading out and there's much less drama. People will also act accordingly when having to deal with their own neighbors.
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#15 Nov 05 2013 at 6:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually, you can GM call people over this and they will actually take measure against it. Dont use the forms for it, instead go for the GM call option from the first tab. Usually gets back to you pretty quickly and either removes the guy or tells you that he send him on an extended break over it. Usually they learn when they're allowed back on the game.

They're pretty brutal in acting towards people who ruin the game in this way.
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#16 Nov 05 2013 at 7:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Ive had the opposite experience. GM showed up and said that the tank was allowed to just sit there not helping, but because he was swearing at us he was told he was getting a warning for that.

Guess it depends on the gm.
#17 Nov 05 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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I feel a DF black list would help the most and be the least convoluted. The vote kick system is quite open to abuse unless you start tacking in long numbered lists of exceptions and qualifications which just makes the whole thing now open to being poorly communicated and misunderstood. Frankly SE needs no help in that department. Even the MVP system is a big fancy solution that never needed to exist. If people on a case by case basis could just blist those they had no interest in playing with for whatever reason and never encounter them again, problem solved.

The ONLY qualifications I would put on this system are that a) you should be able to jot down a note beside the name of the person you blisted should you want, to remind yourself as to why they're there in the first place, because let's face it over time you forget. And b), that the list be really **** long and isolated from your regular blist which is probably already full of gil sellers.

This ensures you have a negative experience with x or y player only once. Which you would have to endure anyhow with the MVP system. It also does not require GM intervention, which would not be of any use to you anyhow, because they likely won't do anything about it. It helps players help themselves by warding against repeated dealings with difficult players. Chances are after a while it gets progressively harder for those who are difficult to find a party as their blist status grows across servers, which is an MVP list in reverse that isolates the problem elements... LVP list?

Edited, Nov 5th 2013 12:30pm by Furiousnixon
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#18 Nov 05 2013 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
I love the idea of a duty finder black list. I still don't like vote kick, because I think that would enable elitists to kick out perfectly geared players who just don't have the shiniest toys.

I would LOVE a blist though!


I agree with this...

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#19 Nov 05 2013 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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BrokenFox wrote:
Xoie wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
We definitely need a vote-kick system, just make it so the remaining 3 members have to agree with the decision. If even 1 person disagrees, the kick doesn't go through. The majority rules in this case whether you consider it elitist or not.

The OPs situation is a perfect example of why this system is needed. Sometimes you run into some major morons and they just need to go. A blacklist system is needed too.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 1:29pm by BrokenFox


It could backfire though. Let's say a tank wants to give up on the group but doesn't want the 15 minute wait for leaving. He could just act like a jerk to get you to kick him so he can requeue right away.

You could also get teamed up against 3 friends who want a better shot at the boss treasure and vote to kick you at the end. Or worse, just troll you out of your tomestones because they can.

If you build it, trolls will troll it.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 2:55pm by Xoie


All true, but no system is perfect, especially when it's all about dealing with human interaction.

Any lock can be picked. Doesn't mean they aren't useful.

Edited, Nov 4th 2013 7:48pm by BrokenFox


But in this case, I think the cure is worse than the disease. Vote-kicking does nothing to stop a troll from disrupting things. Even if you could kick a tank that just wants to ***** around, you'll probably have to requeue anyway because almost no tanks or healers look for in progress DFs even if you could look for a replacement. It's ultimately pointless in small groups and just opens up new avenues for abuse.

In large groups, I've seen people AFKing their way to the same reward as everyone else, so I can see why someone might want the option to boot. I think there are simpler alternatives like rewards being tied to participation such as in a FATE. If you sit out you get nothing. If AFKing is pointless I think people will smarten up.

And if cutscenes are another annoyance causing disputes, I think the DF options Yoshi is working may address that concern where you can specify what type of party you want. Hopefully that can be set up so those cutscenes can be skipped by the whole group automatically (if that's what you sign up for) so it's not a problem anymore.

And I'm supportive of a DF blacklist. That will make it harder for jerks to get much traction spreading their trolling and hate the more they get infamous.
#20 Nov 05 2013 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Furiousnixon wrote:
I feel a DF black list would help the most and be the least convoluted. The vote kick system is quite open to abuse unless you start tacking in long numbered lists of exceptions and qualifications which just makes the whole thing now open to being poorly communicated and misunderstood. Frankly SE needs no help in that department. Even the MVP system is a big fancy solution that never needed to exist. If people on a case by case basis could just blist those they had no interest in playing with for whatever reason and never encounter them again, problem solved.

I don't think you understand the logistics of what you're suggesting here. There is already a bottleneck due to the tank/healer/dps check. If you add a check that separates players by blacklists, you slow that process even more. Instead of punishing the person added to your list, you punish everyone who comes into contact with that player as well.

DF doesn't work the way you think it does. I think if you understood how groups were formed then you'd see the issues that arise from implementing a blacklist feature.
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#21 Nov 05 2013 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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Well i would say you dont understand how duty finder "work"s either than. Filth.

Lets say 100+ people all blist tank0001 because he afk's in CM runs. Now 3 of those people join a queue and are added to a PT, and tank0001 queues up and he is skipped over for that party because 3 people in it already have him blisted. Sure tank0001 will find a party of people who dont have him blisted yet, and that party with 3 people who had him blisted may take longer to actually start... but isnt it worth waiting an extra 10 minutes or w/e it takes to get a group that is garunteed to not contain an afk tank?

I just fail to see your logic in how it would be detremental. Queues may take longer, but you get more enjoyable parties, because now that elitist tank will no longer be able to call u swear words for not having full DL + relic +1 on a WP run, and that afk CM tank will now have to start actually doing stuff or risk getting on so many blists he cant DF for anything.

Sure, you + the 2/4 or 6/8 other members already in queue waiting on more now have to wait longer because of you not wanting to group with a certain person/type of person/group of people.

But honestly if someone has trolled titan for 10 + groups by naked tanking, or leroy jenkinsing...do you really want them in your party?....no, you will wait the extra 10 minutes for someone who is is at least half decent.
#22 Nov 05 2013 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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I had a similar thing happen to me at Garuda. I took the penalty for the entire group by leaving the Duty and filed a harassment report but never heard anything back about it. Fifteen minutes later, I was able to get back into Garuda HM and of course the same person was in my group again.

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#23 Nov 05 2013 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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I totally agree with Dustin. Also, the worse effect it could have if everyone on all servers had the person blacklisted is that it would appear as though the person just never queued for Duty Finder.

Edited, Nov 5th 2013 5:08pm by Dawnn
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#24 Nov 05 2013 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
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dustinfoley wrote:
Well i would say you dont understand how duty finder "work"s either than. Filth.Sure tank0001 will find a party of people who dont have him blisted yet, and that party with 3 people who had him blisted may take longer to actually start... but isnt it worth waiting an extra 10 minutes or w/e it takes to get a group that is garunteed to not contain an afk tank?


Imagine a building with a bunch of lobbies and rooms in it. That's the DF. Everyone who queue's up for DF is basically standing in a line to get into the lobby and once their lobby is full, they enter their room(dungeon) in the building(server). Each lobby in the building allows for a certain combination of the right job roles. People line up outside the building and one by one, they enter in the order they queue'd up. That's pretty much how it works. First come, first served. DF in a nutshell.

Quote:
Lets say 100+ people all blist tank0001 because he afk's in CM runs. Now 3 of those people join a queue and are added to a PT, and tank0001 queues up and he is skipped over for that party because 3 people in it already have him blisted.

There is no guarantee that you won't wait 10 mins and get another asshat in your group. The only guarantee is that you'll never be matched with that specific person again. There is enough of a stink being made about it that it's clearly not just the work of one person.

I'd also like to point out here that a blacklist system can(and will) be abused just like a vote-to-kick feature would be. If I scrape by in an instance that should have been a breeze because someone else wasn't pulling their weight, why wouldn't I blacklist them? In fact, why would I not just blacklist everyone but the great players. Then I'd have to wait longer for queues, but at least I'd know I was always matched up with pros....

It goes both ways.

dustinfoley wrote:
I just fail to see your logic in how it would be detremental.


The logic is simple. Because of how the DF works(explained above), people would end up having an incredibly deflated pool of people to pick from for DF content. Instead of waiting 10 mins on the next available tank, you might sit there half an hour because of who other people in your group have on their black list.

Think beyond just yourself for a moment here. A blacklist would expand to every other member of your group. If you queue'd up and got stuck with me(elitist tank) who started blacklisting every scrub that stood in fire once, you'd be waiting an awfully long time to get a group. Not only that, but you'd have no idea why. Blacklisting doesn't address the issue, it just kicks the can. Eventually the problem will need to be addressed properly.

Removing difficult content from DF is still the best course of action in my opinion. All of the gear griping goes away once item level requirements are in place. Trolls are gonna troll and that's what vote-to-kick is for.

All this stuff has already been implemented in some form or another in other games. Why not stick to what's tested and already works well?

Edited, Nov 5th 2013 8:54pm by FilthMcNasty
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#25 Nov 06 2013 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
I love the idea of a duty finder black list. I still don't like vote kick, because I think that would enable elitists to kick out perfectly geared players who just don't have the shiniest toys.

I would LOVE a blist though!


I thought about this and posted I agree with this in a earlier post.. On xbox live they have a rating system that works pretty good. You can put people in you want to avoid so you never see them again in party finder but you can also rate someone down but also rate someone up. Those people with lower rating only get thrown together, so basically all the obnoxious people end up playing together. They also have less chance of finding parties because the pool is much smaller. does it stop everyone, of coarse not but it still helps.
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#26 Nov 06 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
Thayos wrote:
I love the idea of a duty finder black list. I still don't like vote kick, because I think that would enable elitists to kick out perfectly geared players who just don't have the shiniest toys.

I would LOVE a blist though!


I thought about this and posted I agree with this in a earlier post.. On xbox live they have a rating system that works pretty good. You can put people in you want to avoid so you never see them again in party finder but you can also rate someone down but also rate someone up. Those people with lower rating only get thrown together, so basically all the obnoxious people end up playing together. They also have less chance of finding parties because the pool is much smaller. does it stop everyone, of coarse not but it still helps.


This would also make the shunning of console players much easier to do.
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#27 Nov 06 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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dustinfoley wrote:
Well i would say you dont understand how duty finder "work"s either than. Filth.

Lets say 100+ people all blist tank0001 because he afk's in CM runs. Now 3 of those people join a queue and are added to a PT, and tank0001 queues up and he is skipped over for that party because 3 people in it already have him blisted. Sure tank0001 will find a party of people who dont have him blisted yet, and that party with 3 people who had him blisted may take longer to actually start... but isnt it worth waiting an extra 10 minutes or w/e it takes to get a group that is garunteed to not contain an afk tank?

I just fail to see your logic in how it would be detremental. Queues may take longer, but you get more enjoyable parties, because now that elitist tank will no longer be able to call u swear words for not having full DL + relic +1 on a WP run, and that afk CM tank will now have to start actually doing stuff or risk getting on so many blists he cant DF for anything.

Sure, you + the 2/4 or 6/8 other members already in queue waiting on more now have to wait longer because of you not wanting to group with a certain person/type of person/group of people.

But honestly if someone has trolled titan for 10 + groups by naked tanking, or leroy jenkinsing...do you really want them in your party?....no, you will wait the extra 10 minutes for someone who is is at least half decent.


Your situation is ideal, but not really representative of the actual experience. What Filth was trying to express was that your ideal situation of 3 people already having Tank001 blisted isn't the reality of what would happen. What is far more likely to happen is one guy had a bad experience with that tank for whatever reason (and maybe that AFK was because his father had a heart attack and the video game just wasn't the focus of his attention right then) and he puts said tank on a blist. Now a party of him and 2 people who DIDN'T have this issue get passed over in a queue because of something silly that a VOTE KICK button would have solved.

In fact, someone being AFK is the perfect argument for a vote kick button, not a blist button. Same thing with trolling. That's what vote kick is for. Does it mean sometimes friends will group up and kick out the weak link? Sure, but that is something that is going to happen in the game regardless. There's always going to be that small minority of players who reject you because you don't meet the standards they want, but that's no reason to make everyone suffer to try to force them to play with you.

And trust me, anything that adds to queue times is going to end very badly. Very, very badly, in much qq and fire.
#28 Nov 06 2013 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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The issue with vote kick, is the part where you cant add players once a trial starts (titan/gm/ifirit).

So yeah you can vote kick them, but you still have to reform, over and over and over trying not to get that person. Which has happened with titan tank trolls to me.

Anything that vote kick could be abused for, so could a blist. Both can be used to shun ps3 players, both can be used to shun non geared players, both can be used to slow a group. Lets be honest, if you vote kick someone and then have to wait 10 minutes for someone else, and /pray the same jerk doesnt just re queue isn't much different is it?

I still dont see your logic of how me +2 people are being punished by forcing us to wait for a tank that isn't on one of our blists. Is it much different than if the tank drops and we vote kick after he afks for the third time in 10 minutes?

I am not against vote kick, and I agree, the biggest benefit of it, is to boot afkers, but preventing them from ever even entering and ruining your instance is 100000000x greater even if i have to wait 10-30 minutes longer.

#29 Nov 06 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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dustinfoley wrote:

I am not against vote kick, and I agree, the biggest benefit of it, is to boot afkers, but preventing them from ever even entering and ruining your instance is 100000000x greater even if i have to wait 10-30 minutes longer.


You can't predict behavior, not even on past behavior. That's why I gave the extreme example of someone having to step away because of an emergency. If you really want to waste your time in the queue for hours while the system matches you up with only people who haven't bothered you before or ever had a bad day, then ok.

It still doesn't solve the problem of correcting those AFK and trolling situations, and that issue needs to be addressed or the whole thing will be known as a failure.
#30 Nov 06 2013 at 1:55 PM Rating: Default
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How does it not address the issue of trolls/afkers?

If enough people blist them, they cant join other groups and afk / troll?
#31 Nov 06 2013 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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dustinfoley wrote:
How does it not address the issue of trolls/afkers?

If enough people blist them, they cant join other groups and afk / troll?


So now you want people to be denied groups just based on how many peoples' blist they are on? That's a bit extreme.

And it doesn't solve the problem because you need a vote kick button to get an afk'er out of your group. Right? That's the better solution anyway. Perhaps a vote kick with a temporary blist option so that you don't get matched up with them again that day, but the game is going to start shrinking quite a bit if you just start building that massive personal blist. At that point you are no longer in a "random" queue and you might as well just build your own groups.
#32 Nov 06 2013 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I see vote kick being far more abusable than a blist. Vote kick is actually the more extreme of the 2 options. Almost any game with match making has the option to blist/friend list players to prevent you from getting in matches with certain people.


Like i said 20+ times before in this own thread, vote kick has its merits, it gets rid of the troll/afker now, but if they are on you list in the first place you wouldn't have to kick them. And on stuff like titan where you cant join in progress, vote kick does nothing, because that same naked tank will show up over and over because of how small the queue line is for tanks.

Aside from a few tank trolls, i have yet to group with the same people more than once. At this point my df blist would consist of maybe 5 people. Sure, some elitest who only wants to do speed runs may have 100+ names on their blist, and might have issues, but the average player is going to only have a handful of names

Just like vote kick, the average player will use it fine, its the minority that will abuse it and use it beyond its means.


There are 1000s of ways to implement this system, such as
1) a 30 day decay period were people only stay blisted on duty finder for 30 days (or until the next tally reset on monday mornings).
2) a small list, aka you can only blist 50 people max, considering there are 3k+ per server, thats pretty good odds.


Im not saying they shouldn't do vote kick, but it shouldn't be the only method, and there definitly better options.
#33 Nov 06 2013 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
dustinfoley wrote:
How does it not address the issue of trolls/afkers?

If enough people blist them, they cant join other groups and afk / troll?


So now you want people to be denied groups just based on how many peoples' blist they are on? That's a bit extreme.

And it doesn't solve the problem because you need a vote kick button to get an afk'er out of your group. Right? That's the better solution anyway. Perhaps a vote kick with a temporary blist option so that you don't get matched up with them again that day, but the game is going to start shrinking quite a bit if you just start building that massive personal blist. At that point you are no longer in a "random" queue and you might as well just build your own groups.


While a vote kick to get a real problem out of your group is a good idea, I think placing restrictions on it would be a good idea. Maybe you can only use it a few times a day or something? I just see it being ridiculously abused.

"Meh, PS3 too slow". Vote x3. gone.
"Meh, your relic is not +1." Vote x3. gone.
"Meh, you're watching cutscenes." Vote x3. gone.
"Meh, you're not (insert role)ing right." Vote x3. gone.
"Meh, your roll on the Booties of Super Fireball Naughtiness is too high." Vote x3. gone.

And on and on. I know requiring a consensus is going to mitigate some of this behavior, but I'm still not sure it's the best solution.

What about higher level, more 'important' content. Would it take 5 or 7 people to vote someone out of an 8 man? And what about Crystal Tower? 13 or 23?
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#34 Nov 06 2013 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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I honestly don't see any of those scenarios actually happening often, if at all, unless the 3 people voting you out joined up together and just decided to be ****** or if you yourself just sucked really bad.
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#35 Nov 06 2013 at 2:46 PM Rating: Default
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I see a lot of that already.

Join wp/ak other 3 people are relic +1 full Dl, i am relic /garuda weapon geared and all 3 of them drop at once. Ive had it happen on my whm and on my mnk.

Ive seen tanks/healers leave parties over ps3 people being slow, and over cut scenes all the time.
#36 Nov 06 2013 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
I see a lot of that already.

Join wp/ak other 3 people are relic +1 full Dl, i am relic /garuda weapon geared and all 3 of them drop at once. Ive had it happen on my whm and on my mnk.

Ive seen tanks/healers leave parties over ps3 people being slow, and over cut scenes all the time.

Thank you for making my point.

I guess I'm probably done levelling until PS4 :P
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#37 Nov 06 2013 at 3:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm just going to say, that WoW had the vote kick option, after running hundreds of dungeons in WoW, I can only remember 4 or 5 times where this system got abused.

I got kicked one time for winning a piece of loot that someone else in the group was after and I wouldn't give it to him. It was his "hundredth" run and felt like I should give it to him since my ilevel was already lower then his anyways.

I got kicked as a tank basically just because the healer didn't like me cause he had more HP then me in his PvP gear(long story that I'm not going to type it out), but it was right before the last boss so I wasn't to upset about it.

And then the few random times I saw people get kicked just for being "bad" dps.

Honestly, If the option is there for someone to get kicked for acting stupid, IE AFKing/Trolling, eventually they will just stop doing it. IMO it works more as a deterrent then anything else. Honestly in WoW I forgot it was even there until someone got d/c'ed or something where we had to kick them. I also think the fact that something like this is not in ARR just makes people abuse the system even more.

just my 2 cents.
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#38 Nov 06 2013 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
dustinfoley wrote:
I see a lot of that already.

Join wp/ak other 3 people are relic +1 full Dl, i am relic /garuda weapon geared and all 3 of them drop at once. Ive had it happen on my whm and on my mnk.

Ive seen tanks/healers leave parties over ps3 people being slow, and over cut scenes all the time.

Thank you for making my point.

I guess I'm probably done levelling until PS4 :P


well yeah....just because something like that happened to him once or twice doesn't mean its going to be an epidemic. I mean, I've never had it happen to me, so why not judge the future based on my experience? Of course not, that would be silly.

And also, if it's already "happening" now, then....whats the issue?


edit: and I know you're probably (?) kidding about the waiting til PS4 thing, but I wouldn't suggest allowing one or two horror stories to keep you from enjoying a game you paid for and want to enjoy. Internet, like life, has a lot of crappy people in it, you just sort of have to deal with it.



Edited, Nov 6th 2013 5:20pm by Llester
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#39 Nov 06 2013 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
I see vote kick being far more abusable than a blist.

Preventing players from being allowed into your group sounds like a good concept, but this requires that you actually have them disrupt your group in the first place. Solve the problem, don't kick the can. The only way you're going to avoid having these players in your groups is to screen them prior to going to the dungeon. This also requires you seek these players out on your own server.

As for WoW's vote to kick system, it requires more than just one person(troll-proof) to initiate. If you were in a raid with me and voted to kick me out, it wouldn't even go to a vote unless several other people also submitted me for a vote. Then once it goes to vote it requires a majority. The only way that can be abused is if you are in a party full of trolls. If that's the case, you should be glad they kicked you anyway Smiley: sly
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#40 Nov 07 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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The only way I see a vote-kick working is if it is valid only outside a boss fight and if a treasure chest from a boss is spawned on the ground, weather opened or not, no one can leave the instance until the chests/loot is resolved. Vote kicks will still go through but the player will not physically leave until loot is distributed.

I just had a DRG try to AFK on me in AK because as a relic brd I was trying to help my (still learning, unsecure) WAR friend learn AK. He doesn't have more than one or two pieces of DL and no AK/WP gear. He didn't like the fact that the tank was new, so he was going to AFK on us. I simply pointed out that I understand you are frustrated this isn't a team of expert dungeoneers, but waiting 30 minutes in the duty finder and then going AFK and waste your time while we aren't going to leave is just hurting himself, not us. And that I would report him to a GM for griefing by abstructing normal game play. Unless, he wanted to shut up and come kick some *** with us. At least he had the balls to admit he wasn't truely AFK and took the 15 min DF wait and left for us.

Be polite and respectful, but be honest and to the point. If they don't want to play ball, ask them to leave. Don't mention the 15 min DF wait, that's aggrivating and everyone knows that information. Just ask them to leave if they don't want to work with the team, which you know they would hate to waste their time just as much as you do. If they refuse this, all you can do is report them. You -can- submit tickets while inside the DF dungeons, and you -can- have everyone in the group do it to try and elicit a larger impact upon that player. If only one person submits a complaint, the GM might think it is not as serious as if an entire group agrees that player is being disruptive. If the report and/or the threat of a report to a GM doesn't force them to make a decision, then you have to make the decision to leave or stay and attempt to work around the person trolling. :O
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#41 Nov 07 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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FenrirXIII wrote:
The only way I see a vote-kick working is if it is valid only outside a boss fight and if a treasure chest from a boss is spawned on the ground, weather opened or not, no one can leave the instance until the chests/loot is resolved. Vote kicks will still go through but the player will not physically leave until loot is distributed.


In WoW you couldn't vote kick during combat, and for something like 20 secs after combat ended, you also couldn't vote kick while people were rolling on loot.
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