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PC Gamer ARR Review up... not so greatFollow

#27 Nov 07 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Thayos wrote:
79? Big deal.
If a C-student can be President ...


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#28 Nov 07 2013 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
Rinsui wrote:
And while we are at it, let me list a few things I don't agree with in the review:

"Keyboard and mouse are available too – and necessary for group content"
-> Garbage. Lear to play,mister reviewer.

"The dialogue is a goldmine for nonsense fantasy words"
-> Blame the translators, then, because the Japanese texts are fine - and due to their latent innuendo often quite amusing.

"The problem is that the subscription fee makes that commitment more or less mandatory"
-> The problem is your mindset. If you stuff your belly until you burst at an all-you-can-eat lunch just because it's for free,
and even though it makes you vomit, you're an idiot. And most likely a pretty poor sob.



Nailed it.

I've played with a controller this entire time and have had 0 problem with content.

The translations have a lot of wordplay and it can be quite difficult to digest, -however- if you actually enjoy flourishes of language then you'll find it quite amusing.

In addition to what you said, I don't understand why people can't wrap their heads around the basic concept of "you get what you pay for".
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#29 Nov 07 2013 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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blowfin wrote:
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...we would probably still close down the government every 3 months just to tease the rest of the world with economic catastrophe...


More like make the rest of the world *facepalm* and laugh at republicans.


p sure the rest of the world is about at the point where they're tired of facepalming and ready to just ignore the idiot in the room
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#30 Nov 07 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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Knocking the subscription model as "old-fashioned" is silly to me. Games don't magically create themselves you know. And I will happily pay subscriptions to things of quality I enjoy, especially to avoid cash shop nonsense and daily email spam advertising their "specials" (hello LOTRO, this is why I quit - you got annoying). The fee is such a trivial amount. Anyone arguing that $10-15 a month for potentially 24-7 entertainment is expensive is either 12 or needs to get a job. And's it never free - think about F2P games - you are usually limited until you cough up the credit card.
#31 Nov 07 2013 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
"Keyboard and mouse are available too – and necessary for group content"
-> Garbage. Lear to play,mister reviewer.

How do you type without a keyboard? To be fair, using a keyboard and mouse is just more precise than a gamepad. I get that people wanna just kick back on their couch sometimes, but it's pretty hard to ignore that keyboard and mouse is superior in terms of precision and control.


its 100% retarded to mention needing a keyboard as a negative, or at all, when reviewing an MMO.
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#32 Nov 07 2013 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Llester wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
"Keyboard and mouse are available too – and necessary for group content"
-> Garbage. Lear to play,mister reviewer.

How do you type without a keyboard? To be fair, using a keyboard and mouse is just more precise than a gamepad. I get that people wanna just kick back on their couch sometimes, but it's pretty hard to ignore that keyboard and mouse is superior in terms of precision and control.


its 100% retarded to mention needing a keyboard as a negative, or at all, when reviewing an MMO.

A keyboard is necessary if you want to communicate. But if you're in a PUG DF group. "Hello" is about the only thing said sometimes, and you could macro that :P

I love playing with a controller, and have zero issue playing and communication with the KB in my lap or on the foot part of the recliner ;)
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#33 Nov 07 2013 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
Llester wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
"Keyboard and mouse are available too – and necessary for group content"
-> Garbage. Lear to play,mister reviewer.

How do you type without a keyboard? To be fair, using a keyboard and mouse is just more precise than a gamepad. I get that people wanna just kick back on their couch sometimes, but it's pretty hard to ignore that keyboard and mouse is superior in terms of precision and control.


its 100% retarded to mention needing a keyboard as a negative, or at all, when reviewing an MMO.

A keyboard is necessary if you want to communicate. But if you're in a PUG DF group. "Hello" is about the only thing said sometimes, and you could macro that :P

I love playing with a controller, and have zero issue playing and communication with the KB in my lap or on the foot part of the recliner ;)


same. and when doing the few things in the game that need actual communication (coil, basically) i'm on mumble anyway
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#34 Nov 07 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
"Keyboard and mouse are available too – and necessary for group content"
-> Garbage. Lear to play,mister reviewer.

How do you type without a keyboard? To be fair, using a keyboard and mouse is just more precise than a gamepad. I get that people wanna just kick back on their couch sometimes, but it's pretty hard to ignore that keyboard and mouse is superior in terms of precision and control.


its 100% retarded to mention needing a keyboard as a negative, or at all, when reviewing an MMO.


Yea i thought the same thing when I read that part...
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#35 Nov 07 2013 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Yoshi's own personal explanation for their reasoning in using a subscription payment model, increased content, hasn't yet materialized. I think that's a fair beef at least for now.


It's only been 2 months, and you're surprised that new content hasn't been added?

Also, I'd like to draw your attention to this:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1383836238220438105#2

Edited, Nov 7th 2013 3:59pm by Pickins
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#36 Nov 07 2013 at 3:28 PM Rating: Default
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A grind of some sort, in my opinion, is required for a great RPG. It gives you the feeling of progression from a new fledgling adventurer to king of the domain. This review (which is idiotic) essentially says "if you don't revolutionize" the MMO genre you can't do better than a C+.
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#37 Nov 07 2013 at 3:31 PM Rating: Default
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Llester wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
"Keyboard and mouse are available too – and necessary for group content"
-> Garbage. Lear to play,mister reviewer.

How do you type without a keyboard? To be fair, using a keyboard and mouse is just more precise than a gamepad. I get that people wanna just kick back on their couch sometimes, but it's pretty hard to ignore that keyboard and mouse is superior in terms of precision and control.


its 100% retarded to mention needing a keyboard as a negative, or at all, when reviewing an MMO.


I get the sense this individual knows close to nothing about MMOs.

The review in itself is almost a slap in the face to hardcore MMO players.
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#38 Nov 07 2013 at 4:34 PM Rating: Default
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Pickins wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Yoshi's own personal explanation for their reasoning in using a subscription payment model, increased content, hasn't yet materialized. I think that's a fair beef at least for now.


It's only been 2 months, and you're surprised that new content hasn't been added?

Also, I'd like to draw your attention to this:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1383836238220438105#2


Bolded for emphasis.

The review doesn't take into account what is months into the future for obvious reasons. What is in the game at the time of review is what gets reviewed. ARR has only been out a few months, but you have to take into account that XIV has been out for over 3 years. It's your prerogative if you want to base judgement of the game only on what has happened since the re-launch, but the players who capped prior to the second launch stayed capped. Thousands of people who walked into Eorzea on re-launch with relics in hand already.

Parathyroid wrote:
I get the sense this individual knows close to nothing about MMOs.

The review in itself is almost a slap in the face to hardcore MMO players.


This thread is hilarious. It's a fair and in my opinion, favorable review of XIV and people are upset. Y4? Let's take a quick look at what was actually said in the review... in it's entirety.

PCGamer wrote:
Keyboard and mouse are available too – and necessary for group content – but being able to relax and play it like a console RPG freshens the formula.


I like how people just stopped at the 'necessary for group content' part and immediately took up their shields in defense without reading the entire statement. I see people are wearing their 'I can't wait to knight XIV today' hats in here... for no reason at all. All he did was point out that K/M is an option, but that being able to use a controller is a perk and people put him on blast. Too funnie.
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30 bucks is almost free

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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#39 Nov 07 2013 at 4:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thousands of people who walked into Eorzea on re-launch with relics in hand already.


This being what's essentially a brand new game, Yoshi-P did the right thing by focusing efforts on satisfying new players. Most Legacy players who didn't cap all of their jobs can still experience all of this content by leveling up new jobs.

It's way too early to criticize SE for a lack of content... ARR is only a couple months old.

A big patch is coming in December, that will bring in lots of new content... that will be a great pace for the vast majority of players.
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#40 Nov 07 2013 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
This being what's essentially a brand new game, Yoshi-P did the right thing by focusing efforts on satisfying new players. Most Legacy players who didn't cap all of their jobs can still experience all of this content by leveling up new jobs.


We already agreed to disagree on this. I concede that a re-gift is still a gift Smiley: wink
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#41 Nov 07 2013 at 5:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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If I had some complaints to lobby, they'd be the following:

1) Servers are too full. This leads to issues like overcrowding FATEs, zone lag/congestion, and severe economic swings when something is suddenly flooded. I've said it before, but I feel like the server pool needs to be doubled, transfers to remain free (but weekly restricted), and a means to set up parties with folks on other servers to be established.

2) Crystal shard farming is obscenely unfun. There are multiple ways to remedy this. As nodes increase in level, they can pump out more shards by default. Alchemists could get a synth to convert crystals up or down tiers. All enemies could be assigned a specific crystal type to drop at a fair pace. The GP abilities could be cut from 400 to 50-75. Or on the other end of the craft spectrum, all recipes would only use 1 crystal. Overall, it's not uncommon for a craft to cost more in shards than it does base materials, and that's pretty darn stupid.

3) There needs to be an open world area with nothing but level 50-52 mobs. Main purposes here are to facilitate timely spiritbonding sessions and giving max level players a good place to level their chocobos. Toss in some epic FATE chains while you're there.

4) Some mob families could use some higher densities. Some don't even have open world counterparts like flans, which have a drop used to make a potion within the Alchemy quest line. The sheep in Coerthas serve as an example here. While recently improved, it's still not uncommon to see people at all the 4-6 pop spots. Fleece is just something even max level weavers need a lot of to produce their goods.

5) Good things to spend company seals on. Unique craft materials, ilvl70-80 armor, I don't care. Just something for people who favor open world play to not feel so shackled to dungeons and queues, which 2.1 only seems to be strengthening with more dungeon incentives.

6) Chimera and Hydra need to be DFable. Too often I see DPS jobs shouting for hours and that mirrored my own experience on BLM. Add these to the pending "daily rotation" too. If it helps, you could even add a casket to the end of the fight with some unique things like pets, barding, or even craft mats. Otherwise, people done with these phases have little incentive to backtrack, which basically exemplifies the issues of one-sided tiering.
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#42 Nov 07 2013 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:


I like how people just stopped at the 'necessary for group content' part and immediately took up their shields in defense without reading the entire statement. I see people are wearing their 'I can't wait to knight XIV today' hats in here... for no reason at all. All he did was point out that K/M is an option, but that being able to use a controller is a perk and people put him on blast. Too funnie.


Actually one dude cherry picked that quote and people responded to that. Our fault for not reading the whole review? I guess. But that's pretty clearly what happened if you read the thread. Recognizing that fact however, would have robbed you of the sweet, satisfying opportunity to call people white knights; because that's not played out at all. Are we ready to retire the whole "white knight" phrase already? It sounded retarded when it first became a thing, and sounds even more retarded now. I get it, some people are diehard fans and choose to indulge in some obfuscation of reality in the course of loving what they love; it can be obnoxious sometimes, but @#%^ing get over it. cute tryhard variation on it with the hats thing though.




edit: should prob retire "tryhard" as well. eh.

Edited, Nov 7th 2013 6:36pm by Llester
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#43 Nov 07 2013 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
2) Crystal shard farming is obscenely unfun. There are multiple ways to remedy this. As nodes increase in level, they can pump out more shards by default. Alchemists could get a synth to convert crystals up or down tiers. All enemies could be assigned a specific crystal type to drop at a fair pace. The GP abilities could be cut from 400 to 50-75. Or on the other end of the craft spectrum, all recipes would only use 1 crystal. Overall, it's not uncommon for a craft to cost more in shards than it does base materials, and that's pretty darn stupid.


Some additional things that I thought of:

1) No 40 durability synth should require more than one shard.
2) Keep the 400 GP abilities at 400, but have them stay in effect until you either change jobs or leave the zone.

That being said, I don't mind shard farming that much. If nothing else, not having to deal with randomness when it comes to collecting them means I know how long it will take before I even start doing it. 500 shards only takes me about half an hour or so.

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Then, I realised it was a black garbage bag left out for pick up.

#44 Nov 07 2013 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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Parathyroid wrote:
A grind of some sort, in my opinion, is required for a great RPG. It gives you the feeling of progression from a new fledgling adventurer to king of the domain.


I have to agree. A sure way to lose players is to give them EZ mode to cap and then force them to go gear hunting (which is a grind of sorts, but doesn't really progress character development with new abilities and ever increasing range of open-world access). ARR is doing a decent job of balancing progression & grind, though I hope cap increases end up being much more challenging. I'll probably start capping jobs in the next month or so without really trying too hard, reaching the end of character progression that soon just seems a little fast for my liking.

On the keyboard note, I use a controller on PC and prefer that control scheme over a mouse. On PS3 I do have the controller-mounted keyboard, which is a big improvement over the PS3 text entry box. I'm getting pretty quick at typing using that small keyboard too.

Lastly I play this game in part specifically because it's P2P. I've tried "F2P" games, and well, <no thanks.> <you can have this>
#45 Nov 07 2013 at 6:38 PM Rating: Default
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Llester wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:


I like how people just stopped at the 'necessary for group content' part and immediately took up their shields in defense without reading the entire statement. I see people are wearing their 'I can't wait to knight XIV today' hats in here... for no reason at all. All he did was point out that K/M is an option, but that being able to use a controller is a perk and people put him on blast. Too funnie.


Actually one dude cherry picked that quote and people responded to that. Our fault for not reading the whole review? I guess. But that's pretty clearly what happened if you read the thread. Recognizing that fact however, would have robbed you of the sweet, satisfying opportunity to call people white knights; because that's not played out at all. Are we ready to retire the whole "white knight" phrase already?


You don't have to read the whole review to comment on one statement, but at least read the statement in it's entirety. When you defend XIV just for the sake of defending it, you're a knight. It is what it is and that's what it's called. There will be white knights, trolls and fanboys until the end of time. It's not a phase. If you want people to stop using the term that would require people not play the role.

No, it doesn't satisfy me to call someone out on their ignorant behavior. I'd be satisfied if people had either just taken it for what it was or come back to amend their opinion due to the fact that they didn't digest all of the information despite it being right there in front of them.

When things are taken out of context, it has a variety of differing results. Sometimes it's a complete 180 from what it originally was(as is the case here). Sometimes it doesn't make any sense at all. Sometimes it can even turn out to be quite entertaining.




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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#46 Nov 07 2013 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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#47 Nov 07 2013 at 8:32 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I like how people just stopped at the 'necessary for group content' part and immediately took up their shields in defense without reading the entire statement. I see people are wearing their 'I can't wait to knight XIV today' hats in here... for no reason at all. All he did was point out that K/M is an option, but that being able to use a controller is a perk and people put him on blast. Too funnie.


People stopped at that part because it's... well... wrong. In a fashion we're defending the game because controller support is very **** good and keyboard and mouse are in no way "neccesaary" for group play like the reviewer stated. You can get by just fine with a controller, and Voice chat overrides keyboard for communication where it's important.

I also prefer it over keyboard and mouse for subjective reasons, camera and movement control, which feels way more natural than KB/Mouse to me. I picked up the controller found it felt a lot more "free" than KB/Mouse. This is totally a subjective matter though, and there's really no solid ground to claim either way is better.

I mean obviously you have more functionality available to you with a KB and mouse, I don't think anyone is arguing against that. As to how much of a difference it would make to me in terms of performance at the moment, I'd say it would be very little.
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#48 Nov 07 2013 at 9:26 PM Rating: Decent
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It's sort of a redundant statement anyway. The review is for PCGamer. K/M is standard equipment for PCs. Was hardly worth mentioning in the review since pretty much every PC owner has a keyboard and mouse anyway. The majority of MMO gamers play on K/M. All this sounded like to me was "XIV uses the standard keyboard and mouse layout but unlike most MMOs you're used to, you can plug-in a gamepad and play it like a console RPG". It doesn't say that gamepad players suck or even that the interface is bad. I just don't see the need for nitpicking it, much less firing shots at a reviewer... especially one with a positive outlook on the game Smiley: dubious
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#49 Nov 08 2013 at 12:37 AM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I just don't see the need for nitpicking it, much less firing shots at a reviewer... especially one with a positive outlook on the game Smiley: dubious


I think it touches a nerve with some people as there's a fair amount of unjustified bias against those who choose to use a controller. Saying that it's "necessary for group play" just re-reinforces the misconception that people who use controllers are second rate citizens.

If I were to critique the review honestly, I'd say it was fairly superficial, regardless of whether it was positive or not.Smiley: frown
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#50 Nov 08 2013 at 3:27 AM Rating: Decent
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blowfin wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I just don't see the need for nitpicking it, much less firing shots at a reviewer... especially one with a positive outlook on the game Smiley: dubious


I think it touches a nerve with some people as there's a fair amount of unjustified bias against those who choose to use a controller. Saying that it's "necessary for group play" just re-reinforces the misconception that people who use controllers are second rate citizens.

If I were to critique the review honestly, I'd say it was fairly superficial, regardless of whether it was positive or not.Smiley: frown


I think the only time bias against controller actually comes up is when someone is failing repeatedly to execute. It's simply too difficult to pull off with a controller, what you can much more easily execute on K/M in some cases. Maybe it's due to the mechanics of XIV that you can get through on a gamepad, but in almost any other MMO it would be far more difficult to complete hardmode content.

The bias is warranted, but I don't see why people are taking it personally. There is nothing wrong with having a preference for controller. There is something wrong if your preference starts to hold you and your group or alliance from completing your run.

Disclaimer: I own both a PS3 and an Xbox and I'll probably get both of the new generation consoles. I harbor no hate for consoles.

I said long ago in the days of FFXI(in some cases in it's defense) that the game being on console and intended for controller was holding it's encounters back from being more challenging. When it was announced that XIV would also be coming to PS3, I had the same feeling. The fact that controller players and subsequently, console players are being shunned from HM FC and groups kinda reaffirms my thoughts.


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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#51 Nov 08 2013 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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Don`t blame the controller
when you suck
when using the controller.
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